Understanding limits about BIMAX

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Did you know that bimaxillary treatment is more limited than you thought
————————————
Understanding the limits of orthognathic surgery (i.e bimax)
Bimax = repositioning of the mandible and maxilla
in surgery these planes can be
1. Rotated clockwise (CW)
2. Rotated counter-clockwise (CCW)
3. Impacted
4. Downgrafted
Changing this plane affects various cranio-facial aesthetics
after understanding this brief explanation we can get into the various structural limits

Structural limits:
———————————————
A) Condylar seating
some preface; I saw some people saying in a PS forum that the condylar seating doesnt affect the treatment at all 😭 so heres a brief study

condylar seating

Now that we got that out of the way, lets discuss how the condylar seating can possibly limit the treatment of bimax

If you reposition the occlusal plane incorrectly/overdone
The condyles may not naturally be positioned in a positive way this is due to structural limits (preoperative)
You can create risk of relapse
joint strain or instability

B) The Soft tissue in the surrounding areas

The face has soft tissue obviously if you overadvance/overrotate etc you can get negative sides
increased relapse
lip incompetence

C) Occlusal Contact
Your bite must be correct post surgery, over extreme movement can negatively impact orthodontics and relapse risk increases

D) Nerve Damage/Injury
Large advancements affect soft tissue, beyond certain distances it can cause nerve injury and affect postoperative anatomy,

E) Safe Ranges of movement
Some people have unrealistic expectations of movements
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3681098/
TLDR: Advancements tend to be safe at moderate amounts, maxillary downgrafting has a significantly higher relapse risk than advancement or impaction
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0278239105018525
TLDR: CCW rotation safe range is in between 4-8 degrees assuming healthy condyles
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17470277/
TLDR: mandibular advancements tend to be very safe and stable
———————————————
NOTE: All of these are limits but some blackpilled turkish muddafucka is still going to do whatever you wish lol, most of these mentioned are anatomical as theyre more important because most people will get treatment by a blackpilled aesthetic doctor so i thought there wasnt a need to mention it (only important if youre larping sleep apnea kekw or getting surgery in the west which is retarded imo (i.e american aesthetic doctors are butchers)
——————————————
———————————————

TLDR; Most limitations are anatomical and due to with people having too big of an expectation of movement with orthognathics. Please note you need a scan before determining. Please note this risks arent only threatening to airways, bite etc, (They can affect aesthetics!!)
Tags : @Idontknow- @yussimania @rraymond @Whiteboard7 @tomahawk @MouthBreathingElite (HOLY MASS TAGGING SORRY :geek::geek:)
 
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formatting is ass brah :forcedsmile:
 
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Did you know that bimaxillary treatment is more limited than you thought
————————————
Understanding the limits of orthognathic surgery (i.e bimax)
Bimax = repositioning of the mandible and maxilla
in surgery these planes can be
1. Rotated clockwise (CW)
2. Rotated counter-clockwise (CCW)
3. Impacted
4. Downgrafted
Changing this plane affects various cranio-facial aesthetics
after understanding this brief explanation we can get into the various structural limits

Structural limits:
———————————————
A) Condylar seating
some preface; I saw some people saying in a PS forum that the condylar seating doesnt affect the treatment at all 😭 so heres a brief study

condylar seating

Now that we got that out of the way, lets discuss how the condylar seating can possibly limit the treatment of bimax

If you reposition the occlusal plane incorrectly/overdone
The condyles may not naturally be positioned in a positive way this is due to structural limits (preoperative)
You can create risk of relapse
joint strain or instability

B) The Soft tissue in the surrounding areas

The face has soft tissue obviously if you overadvance/overrotate etc you can get negative sides
increased relapse
lip incompetence

C) Occlusal Contact
Your bite must be correct post surgery, over extreme movement can negatively impact orthodontics and relapse risk increases

D) Nerve Damage/Injury
Large advancements affect soft tissue, beyond certain distances it can cause nerve injury and affect postoperative anatomy,

E) Safe Ranges of movement
Some people have unrealistic expectations of movements
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3681098/
TLDR: Advancements tend to be safe at moderate amounts, maxillary downgrafting has a significantly higher relapse risk than advancement or impaction
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0278239105018525
TLDR: CCW rotation safe range is in between 4-8 degrees assuming healthy condyles
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17470277/
TLDR: mandibular advancements tend to be very safe and stable
———————————————
NOTE: All of these are limits but some blackpilled turkish muddafucka is still going to do whatever you wish lol, most of these mentioned are anatomical as theyre more important because most people will get treatment by a blackpilled aesthetic doctor so i thought there wasnt a need to mention it (only important if youre larping sleep apnea kekw or getting surgery in the west which is retarded imo (i.e american aesthetic doctors are butchers)
——————————————
———————————————

TLDR; Most limitations are anatomical and due to with people having too big of an expectation of movement with orthognathics. Please note you need a scan before determining. Please note this risks arent only threatening to airways, bite etc, (They can affect aesthetics!!)
Tags : @Idontknow- @yussimania @rraymond @Whiteboard7 @tomahawk @MouthBreathingElite (HOLY MASS TAGGING SORRY :geek::geek:)
Nice awesome + DNR + Idk what bimax is + you can only tag 5 people + i love you
 
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Good thread
 
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aw fuck

mods please dont grape 🥺

thanks brah
no like its not punishable its just a feature, anyone after the 5th tag in one message doesnbt actually get tagged. you need to write a new message to tag them.

You didnt react to my reply. :GooseKnife:
 
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Did you know that bimaxillary treatment is more limited than you thought
————————————
Understanding the limits of orthognathic surgery (i.e bimax)
Bimax = repositioning of the mandible and maxilla
in surgery these planes can be
1. Rotated clockwise (CW)
2. Rotated counter-clockwise (CCW)
3. Impacted
4. Downgrafted
Changing this plane affects various cranio-facial aesthetics
after understanding this brief explanation we can get into the various structural limits

Structural limits:
———————————————
A) Condylar seating
some preface; I saw some people saying in a PS forum that the condylar seating doesnt affect the treatment at all 😭 so heres a brief study

condylar seating

Now that we got that out of the way, lets discuss how the condylar seating can possibly limit the treatment of bimax

If you reposition the occlusal plane incorrectly/overdone
The condyles may not naturally be positioned in a positive way this is due to structural limits (preoperative)
You can create risk of relapse
joint strain or instability

B) The Soft tissue in the surrounding areas

The face has soft tissue obviously if you overadvance/overrotate etc you can get negative sides
increased relapse
lip incompetence

C) Occlusal Contact
Your bite must be correct post surgery, over extreme movement can negatively impact orthodontics and relapse risk increases

D) Nerve Damage/Injury
Large advancements affect soft tissue, beyond certain distances it can cause nerve injury and affect postoperative anatomy,

E) Safe Ranges of movement
Some people have unrealistic expectations of movements
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3681098/
TLDR: Advancements tend to be safe at moderate amounts, maxillary downgrafting has a significantly higher relapse risk than advancement or impaction
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0278239105018525
TLDR: CCW rotation safe range is in between 4-8 degrees assuming healthy condyles
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17470277/
TLDR: mandibular advancements tend to be very safe and stable
———————————————
NOTE: All of these are limits but some blackpilled turkish muddafucka is still going to do whatever you wish lol, most of these mentioned are anatomical as theyre more important because most people will get treatment by a blackpilled aesthetic doctor so i thought there wasnt a need to mention it (only important if youre larping sleep apnea kekw or getting surgery in the west which is retarded imo (i.e american aesthetic doctors are butchers)
——————————————
———————————————

TLDR; Most limitations are anatomical and due to with people having too big of an expectation of movement with orthognathics. Please note you need a scan before determining. Please note this risks arent only threatening to airways, bite etc, (They can affect aesthetics!!)
Tags : @Idontknow- @yussimania @rraymond @Whiteboard7 @tomahawk @MouthBreathingElite (HOLY MASS TAGGING SORRY :geek::geek:)
@yussimania read
IMG 4370

@MouthBreathingElite u too ma
 
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holy flop of a thread :D
 
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Good thread especially condyle seating which isn't really talked about
 
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Good thread especially condyle seating which isn't really talked about
thanks bra, i thought it was ahh cuz it was very brief research
 
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Did you know that bimaxillary treatment is more limited than you thought
————————————
Understanding the limits of orthognathic surgery (i.e bimax)
Bimax = repositioning of the mandible and maxilla
in surgery these planes can be
1. Rotated clockwise (CW)
2. Rotated counter-clockwise (CCW)
3. Impacted
4. Downgrafted
Changing this plane affects various cranio-facial aesthetics
after understanding this brief explanation we can get into the various structural limits

Structural limits:
———————————————
A) Condylar seating
some preface; I saw some people saying in a PS forum that the condylar seating doesnt affect the treatment at all 😭 so heres a brief study

condylar seating

Now that we got that out of the way, lets discuss how the condylar seating can possibly limit the treatment of bimax

If you reposition the occlusal plane incorrectly/overdone
The condyles may not naturally be positioned in a positive way this is due to structural limits (preoperative)
You can create risk of relapse
joint strain or instability

B) The Soft tissue in the surrounding areas

The face has soft tissue obviously if you overadvance/overrotate etc you can get negative sides
increased relapse
lip incompetence

C) Occlusal Contact
Your bite must be correct post surgery, over extreme movement can negatively impact orthodontics and relapse risk increases

D) Nerve Damage/Injury
Large advancements affect soft tissue, beyond certain distances it can cause nerve injury and affect postoperative anatomy,

E) Safe Ranges of movement
Some people have unrealistic expectations of movements
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3681098/
TLDR: Advancements tend to be safe at moderate amounts, maxillary downgrafting has a significantly higher relapse risk than advancement or impaction
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0278239105018525
TLDR: CCW rotation safe range is in between 4-8 degrees assuming healthy condyles
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17470277/
TLDR: mandibular advancements tend to be very safe and stable
———————————————
NOTE: All of these are limits but some blackpilled turkish muddafucka is still going to do whatever you wish lol, most of these mentioned are anatomical as theyre more important because most people will get treatment by a blackpilled aesthetic doctor so i thought there wasnt a need to mention it (only important if youre larping sleep apnea kekw or getting surgery in the west which is retarded imo (i.e american aesthetic doctors are butchers)
——————————————
———————————————

TLDR; Most limitations are anatomical and due to with people having too big of an expectation of movement with orthognathics. Please note you need a scan before determining. Please note this risks arent only threatening to airways, bite etc, (They can affect aesthetics!!)
Tags : @Idontknow- @yussimania @rraymond @Whiteboard7 @tomahawk @MouthBreathingElite (HOLY MASS TAGGING SORRY :geek::geek:)
Idk anything about stuff like that. I might need a CCW. Thank you for tagging bhai. Much love, good thread
 
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good thread.

most people on here need to realise that even some kind of ultimate theoretical bimax with maximum advancement isn't going to ascend them. there is certainly higher ROI from many other procedures.

pure ascension from bimax is rare. and there are limits to what can be done in each specific case, which you describe very well.
 
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thank you oldcel, i appreciate it loads
good thread.

most people on here need to realise that even some kind of ultimate theoretical bimax with maximum advancement isn't going to ascend them. there is certainly higher ROI from many other procedures.

pure ascension from bimax is rare. and there are limits to what can be done in each specific case, which you describe very well.
 
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Did you know that bimaxillary treatment is more limited than you thought
————————————
Understanding the limits of orthognathic surgery (i.e bimax)
Bimax = repositioning of the mandible and maxilla
in surgery these planes can be
1. Rotated clockwise (CW)
2. Rotated counter-clockwise (CCW)
3. Impacted
4. Downgrafted
Changing this plane affects various cranio-facial aesthetics
after understanding this brief explanation we can get into the various structural limits

Structural limits:
———————————————
A) Condylar seating
some preface; I saw some people saying in a PS forum that the condylar seating doesnt affect the treatment at all 😭 so heres a brief study

condylar seating

Now that we got that out of the way, lets discuss how the condylar seating can possibly limit the treatment of bimax

If you reposition the occlusal plane incorrectly/overdone
The condyles may not naturally be positioned in a positive way this is due to structural limits (preoperative)
You can create risk of relapse
joint strain or instability

B) The Soft tissue in the surrounding areas

The face has soft tissue obviously if you overadvance/overrotate etc you can get negative sides
increased relapse
lip incompetence

C) Occlusal Contact
Your bite must be correct post surgery, over extreme movement can negatively impact orthodontics and relapse risk increases

D) Nerve Damage/Injury
Large advancements affect soft tissue, beyond certain distances it can cause nerve injury and affect postoperative anatomy,

E) Safe Ranges of movement
Some people have unrealistic expectations of movements
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3681098/
TLDR: Advancements tend to be safe at moderate amounts, maxillary downgrafting has a significantly higher relapse risk than advancement or impaction
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0278239105018525
TLDR: CCW rotation safe range is in between 4-8 degrees assuming healthy condyles
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17470277/
TLDR: mandibular advancements tend to be very safe and stable
———————————————
NOTE: All of these are limits but some blackpilled turkish muddafucka is still going to do whatever you wish lol, most of these mentioned are anatomical as theyre more important because most people will get treatment by a blackpilled aesthetic doctor so i thought there wasnt a need to mention it (only important if youre larping sleep apnea kekw or getting surgery in the west which is retarded imo (i.e american aesthetic doctors are butchers)
——————————————
———————————————

TLDR; Most limitations are anatomical and due to with people having too big of an expectation of movement with orthognathics. Please note you need a scan before determining. Please note this risks arent only threatening to airways, bite etc, (They can affect aesthetics!!)
Tags : @Idontknow- @yussimania @rraymond @Whiteboard7 @tomahawk @MouthBreathingElite (HOLY MASS TAGGING SORRY :geek::geek:)
@Sayori @insignia_
 
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Did you know that bimaxillary treatment is more limited than you thought
————————————
Understanding the limits of orthognathic surgery (i.e bimax)
Bimax = repositioning of the mandible and maxilla
in surgery these planes can be
1. Rotated clockwise (CW)
2. Rotated counter-clockwise (CCW)
3. Impacted
4. Downgrafted
Changing this plane affects various cranio-facial aesthetics
after understanding this brief explanation we can get into the various structural limits

Structural limits:
———————————————
A) Condylar seating
some preface; I saw some people saying in a PS forum that the condylar seating doesnt affect the treatment at all 😭 so heres a brief study

condylar seating

Now that we got that out of the way, lets discuss how the condylar seating can possibly limit the treatment of bimax

If you reposition the occlusal plane incorrectly/overdone
The condyles may not naturally be positioned in a positive way this is due to structural limits (preoperative)
You can create risk of relapse
joint strain or instability

B) The Soft tissue in the surrounding areas

The face has soft tissue obviously if you overadvance/overrotate etc you can get negative sides
increased relapse
lip incompetence

C) Occlusal Contact
Your bite must be correct post surgery, over extreme movement can negatively impact orthodontics and relapse risk increases

D) Nerve Damage/Injury
Large advancements affect soft tissue, beyond certain distances it can cause nerve injury and affect postoperative anatomy,

E) Safe Ranges of movement
Some people have unrealistic expectations of movements
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3681098/
TLDR: Advancements tend to be safe at moderate amounts, maxillary downgrafting has a significantly higher relapse risk than advancement or impaction
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0278239105018525
TLDR: CCW rotation safe range is in between 4-8 degrees assuming healthy condyles
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17470277/
TLDR: mandibular advancements tend to be very safe and stable
———————————————
NOTE: All of these are limits but some blackpilled turkish muddafucka is still going to do whatever you wish lol, most of these mentioned are anatomical as theyre more important because most people will get treatment by a blackpilled aesthetic doctor so i thought there wasnt a need to mention it (only important if youre larping sleep apnea kekw or getting surgery in the west which is retarded imo (i.e american aesthetic doctors are butchers)
——————————————
———————————————

TLDR; Most limitations are anatomical and due to with people having too big of an expectation of movement with orthognathics. Please note you need a scan before determining. Please note this risks arent only threatening to airways, bite etc, (They can affect aesthetics!!)
Tags : @Idontknow- @yussimania @rraymond @Whiteboard7 @tomahawk @MouthBreathingElite (HOLY MASS TAGGING SORRY :geek::geek:)
I like the colorful theme your formatting has however get rid of the ugly grey colors you have in your thread

Honestly this is new info that I don't even know where to start my research on

This would be very useful for lil bro ill make that nga do the research:feelsez:
 
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I like the colorful theme your formatting has however get rid of the ugly grey colors you have in your thread
my formatting is the worst shit ever

i need help with this bruh
looks like a rainbow unicorn nutted on my keyboard
Honestly this is new info that I don't even know where to start my research on

This would be very useful for lil bro ill make that nga do the research:feelsez:
lmao, yeah i didnt really know the extent of limitations from bimax until very recently
 
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Did you know that bimaxillary treatment is more limited than you thought
————————————
Understanding the limits of orthognathic surgery (i.e bimax)
Bimax = repositioning of the mandible and maxilla
in surgery these planes can be
1. Rotated clockwise (CW)
2. Rotated counter-clockwise (CCW)
3. Impacted
4. Downgrafted
Changing this plane affects various cranio-facial aesthetics
after understanding this brief explanation we can get into the various structural limits

Structural limits:
———————————————
A) Condylar seating
some preface; I saw some people saying in a PS forum that the condylar seating doesnt affect the treatment at all 😭 so heres a brief study

condylar seating

Now that we got that out of the way, lets discuss how the condylar seating can possibly limit the treatment of bimax

If you reposition the occlusal plane incorrectly/overdone
The condyles may not naturally be positioned in a positive way this is due to structural limits (preoperative)
You can create risk of relapse
joint strain or instability

B) The Soft tissue in the surrounding areas

The face has soft tissue obviously if you overadvance/overrotate etc you can get negative sides
increased relapse
lip incompetence

C) Occlusal Contact
Your bite must be correct post surgery, over extreme movement can negatively impact orthodontics and relapse risk increases

D) Nerve Damage/Injury
Large advancements affect soft tissue, beyond certain distances it can cause nerve injury and affect postoperative anatomy,

E) Safe Ranges of movement
Some people have unrealistic expectations of movements
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3681098/
TLDR: Advancements tend to be safe at moderate amounts, maxillary downgrafting has a significantly higher relapse risk than advancement or impaction
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0278239105018525
TLDR: CCW rotation safe range is in between 4-8 degrees assuming healthy condyles
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17470277/
TLDR: mandibular advancements tend to be very safe and stable
———————————————
NOTE: All of these are limits but some blackpilled turkish muddafucka is still going to do whatever you wish lol, most of these mentioned are anatomical as theyre more important because most people will get treatment by a blackpilled aesthetic doctor so i thought there wasnt a need to mention it (only important if youre larping sleep apnea kekw or getting surgery in the west which is retarded imo (i.e american aesthetic doctors are butchers)
——————————————
———————————————

TLDR; Most limitations are anatomical and due to with people having too big of an expectation of movement with orthognathics. Please note you need a scan before determining. Please note this risks arent only threatening to airways, bite etc, (They can affect aesthetics!!)
Tags : @Idontknow- @yussimania @rraymond @Whiteboard7 @tomahawk @MouthBreathingElite (HOLY MASS TAGGING SORRY :geek::geek:)
@Grievous you read this too unc
 
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my formatting is the worst shit ever

i need help with this bruh
looks like a rainbow unicorn nutted on my keyboard

lmao, yeah i didnt really know the extent of limitations from bimax until very recently
We in the same boat tho I'm formatting is straight garbage

my colorful era:

my spam spoiler era:

Low effort titles era:

Current me:

I think I need to add colors:feelswhy:
 
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Did you know that bimaxillary treatment is more limited than you thought
————————————
Understanding the limits of orthognathic surgery (i.e bimax)
Bimax = repositioning of the mandible and maxilla
in surgery these planes can be
1. Rotated clockwise (CW)
2. Rotated counter-clockwise (CCW)
3. Impacted
4. Downgrafted
Changing this plane affects various cranio-facial aesthetics
after understanding this brief explanation we can get into the various structural limits

Structural limits:
———————————————
A) Condylar seating
some preface; I saw some people saying in a PS forum that the condylar seating doesnt affect the treatment at all 😭 so heres a brief study

condylar seating

Now that we got that out of the way, lets discuss how the condylar seating can possibly limit the treatment of bimax

If you reposition the occlusal plane incorrectly/overdone
The condyles may not naturally be positioned in a positive way this is due to structural limits (preoperative)
You can create risk of relapse
joint strain or instability

B) The Soft tissue in the surrounding areas

The face has soft tissue obviously if you overadvance/overrotate etc you can get negative sides
increased relapse
lip incompetence

C) Occlusal Contact
Your bite must be correct post surgery, over extreme movement can negatively impact orthodontics and relapse risk increases

D) Nerve Damage/Injury
Large advancements affect soft tissue, beyond certain distances it can cause nerve injury and affect postoperative anatomy,

E) Safe Ranges of movement
Some people have unrealistic expectations of movements
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3681098/
TLDR: Advancements tend to be safe at moderate amounts, maxillary downgrafting has a significantly higher relapse risk than advancement or impaction
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0278239105018525
TLDR: CCW rotation safe range is in between 4-8 degrees assuming healthy condyles
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17470277/
TLDR: mandibular advancements tend to be very safe and stable
———————————————
NOTE: All of these are limits but some blackpilled turkish muddafucka is still going to do whatever you wish lol, most of these mentioned are anatomical as theyre more important because most people will get treatment by a blackpilled aesthetic doctor so i thought there wasnt a need to mention it (only important if youre larping sleep apnea kekw or getting surgery in the west which is retarded imo (i.e american aesthetic doctors are butchers)
——————————————
———————————————

TLDR; Most limitations are anatomical and due to with people having too big of an expectation of movement with orthognathics. Please note you need a scan before determining. Please note this risks arent only threatening to airways, bite etc, (They can affect aesthetics!!)
Tags : @Idontknow- @yussimania @rraymond @Whiteboard7 @tomahawk @MouthBreathingElite (HOLY MASS TAGGING SORRY :geek::geek:)
Fix formatting bhai
 
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We in the same boat tho I'm formatting is straight garbage

my colorful era:

my spam spoiler era:

Low effort titles era:

Current me:

I think I need to add colors:feelswhy:
i think a mix of the current yu and your colorful era would be sick
 
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help me unc
I feel like my formatting is pretty good
 
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I feel like my formatting is pretty good
to be fully honest it isnt great lol
i think @Veridic has the best formatting
genuinely busted to this formatting and thread in general

id love to hear his advice
 
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to be fully honest it isnt great lol
i think @Veridic has the best formatting
genuinely busted to this formatting and thread in general

id love to hear his advice
I like his formatting mirin
 
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@BR32
this might slightly help you understand the limits for your bimax
although i think youre a good candidate for it
 
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What you re saying is 100% correct: the soft tissues and the condyle have a limit, and that limit cannot be exceeded to avoid obstructing breathing, among other issues.
Once this surgery is done, within that function aesthetic balance, we then move into the aesthetic part with implants to achieve greater projection in the areas where the bone could not be advanced any further.
 
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