[VERY HIGH IQ] Infinite loop reincarnation theory

[Deleted member 67558]

its like the teletransportation paradox.

Teletransportation paradox - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Yeah, i just read it. Basically on the same principle.

 

[wollet2]

Yeah but we might exist at the same time in different universes strangely with different experiences. Our brains are not made for that type of thinking tho. But it is possible. Also it is possible that in different universe your mother and father won't be the same, just the combination of genes.

why do you think youre linked with those other "identical selfs" from other universes

 

[InnerVoid]

i aint gonna be incel again buddy

 

[douche]

ive been thinking alot about superdeterminism as of late and the universe existing as a loop seems like a plausible reason for why everything is preordained

 

[Manana]

Firstly, as you may know time is an illusion as stated by the top physist himself - Albert Einstein.

Stop reading there Einstein top physist

 

[Deleted member 67558]

why do you think youre linked with those other "identical selfs" from other universes

Tbh, i have been thinking a lot lately and reading some information about this teletransportation paradox, ship of Thesus or sum like that. I have no idea what to think about that tbh. From what perspective it seems logical but from another not. Every atom in our body changes every 7 years which means we basically have died multiple times in materialistic sense and now we are reborn just with the memories of the other body by this logic. I have no idea for now, will think more but i don't think i am going to come with some other theory tbh, i am not omnipotent

 

[wollet2]

Tbh, i have been thinking a lot lately and reading some information about this teletransportation paradox, ship of Thesus or sum like that. I have no idea what to think about that tbh. From what perspective it seems logical but from another not. Every atom in our body changes every 7 years which means we basically have died multiple times in materialistic sense and now we are reborn just with the memories of the other body by this logic. I have no idea for now, will think more but i don't think i am going to come with some other theory tbh, i am not omnipotent

i believe the experience we are having will continue after death, since non experience-not existing cant be experienced and whats the alternative? there is only experiencing or not experiencing

idk what experience that will be

 

[Deleted member 67558]

i believe the experience we are having will continue after death, since non experience-not existing cant be experienced and whats the alternative? there is only experiencing or not experiencing

Actually it probably can as strange as it sounds. It just that our minds / brains cannot comprehend it, neither do i.

 

[wollet2]

Actually it probably can as strange as it sounds. It just that our minds / brains cannot comprehend it, neither do i.

your current 'you' will not have a brain. so 'you' will not experience anymore
can that state last forever from the 1st person pov?

what if you cant conceive experiencing non existance cuz it literally doesnt happen.

 

[wollet2]

Actually it probably can as strange as it sounds. It just that our minds / brains cannot comprehend it, neither do i.

only an experience (requires a brain) can be experienced by the meaning of the word. not existing is the lack of any experience

 

[Deleted member 67558]

your current 'you' will not have a brain. so 'you' will not experience anymore
can that state last forever from the 1st person pov?

what if you cant conceive experiencing non existance cuz it literally doesnt happen.

I don't think i understand you correctly. Are you stating that if we die, we cease to exist because if its that then yes i agree. We cannot comprehend death as we are not there anymore. Btw that teletransportation paradox should be able to solve the afterlife theory, but i don't think we can achieve that type of machine in real life.

 

[Deleted member 67558]

only an experience (requires a brain) can be experienced by the meaning of the word. not existing is the lack of any experience

Actually, again from the materialistic point of view, if we are atoms, structures and so on, and they change roughly every 7 years (all of them) and we don't know when we have died, doesn't that mean our 'consciousness' will live forever as it will never know when it would have died? Bodies will change, timeline will change, universe might change, we will never know that we have died. Or i don't know but whatever it is our brains are not capable of understanding it anyway. In fact our consciousness might not be an individual person, it might be everything at once, which is kinda basically pantheism tbh.

 

[wollet2]

Actually, again from the materialistic point of view, if we are atoms, structures and so on, and they change roughly every 7 years (all of them) and we don't know when we have died, doesn't that mean our 'consciousness' will live forever as it will never know when it would have died? Bodies will change, timeline will change, universe might change, we will never know that we have died.

but you dont see any human around being immortal. so the moment of death will happen. how can you not know that?

so everything of you will be lost after the moment of death

 

[wollet2]

I don't think i understand you correctly. Are you stating that if we die, we cease to exist because if its that then yes i agree. We cannot comprehend death as we are not there anymore. Btw that teletransportation paradox should be able to solve the afterlife theory, but i don't think we can achieve that type of machine in real life.

i just read into teletransportation paradox from wikipedia. it disturbs me and ive had similar thought experiments.

reminds me of the mind uploading problem, on whether it will legitimately be a continuinity in your first person experience and you will wake up in the web (all theory bs but still) or it will just be a replica that itself will feel like "you" . but "you" might be gone from a 1st person pov experience once you got to sleep. what if you wake up as another person. we dont know what happens to the 1st person pov experience "you" will have after entering the machine

i agree with this from the wiki
"in the end, "what matters" is not personal identity, but rather mental continuity and connectedness."


"
Derek Parfit and others consider a hypothetical "teletransporter", a machine that puts you to sleep, records your molecular composition, breaking you down into atoms, and relaying it to Mars at the speed of light. On Mars, another machine re-creates you (from local stores of carbon, hydrogen, and so on), each atom in exactly the same relative position. Parfit poses the question of whether or not the teletransporter is actually a method of travel, or if it simply kills and makes an exact replica of the user.[3]

Then the teleporter is upgraded. The teletransporter on Earth is modified to not destroy the person who enters it, but instead it can simply make infinite replicas, all of whom would claim to remember entering the teletransporter on Earth in the first place."


@EdgeLord69 what if while the machine records your molecular composition you are not put to sleep. is that possible? so there is no leap of "consciousness"

in that case, what would the teleported self experience.

 

[wollet2]

Actually, again from the materialistic point of view, if we are atoms, structures and so on, and they change roughly every 7 years (all of them) and we don't know when we have died, doesn't that mean our 'consciousness' will live forever as it will never know when it would have died? Bodies will change, timeline will change, universe might change, we will never know that we have died. Or i don't know but whatever it is our brains are not capable of understanding it anyway. In fact our consciousness might not be an individual person, it might be everything at once, which is kinda basically pantheism tbh.

our bodies change but something keeps the experiential continuity on our ego. what is that?

will that experiential continuity on our ego end once we die

 

[Deleted member 67558]

i just read into teletransportation paradox from wikipedia. it disturbs me and ive had similar thought experiments.

reminds me of the mind uploading problem, on whether it will legitimately be a continuinity in your first person experience and you will wake up in the web (all theory bs but still) or it will just be a replica that itself will feel like "you" . but "you" might be gone from a 1st person pov experience once you got to sleep. what if you wake up as another person. we dont know what happens to the 1st person pov experience "you" will have after entering the machine

i agree with this from the wiki
"in the end, "what matters" is not personal identity, but rather mental continuity and connectedness."


"
Derek Parfit and others consider a hypothetical "teletransporter", a machine that puts you to sleep, records your molecular composition, breaking you down into atoms, and relaying it to Mars at the speed of light. On Mars, another machine re-creates you (from local stores of carbon, hydrogen, and so on), each atom in exactly the same relative position. Parfit poses the question of whether or not the teletransporter is actually a method of travel, or if it simply kills and makes an exact replica of the user.[3]

Then the teleporter is upgraded. The teletransporter on Earth is modified to not destroy the person who enters it, but instead it can simply make infinite replicas, all of whom would claim to remember entering the teletransporter on Earth in the first place."


@EdgeLord69 what if while the machine records your molecular composition you are not put to sleep. is that possible? so there is no leap of "consciousness"

in that case, what would the teleported self experience.

Interesting case is if you don't die and then just a copy of you (cloning) is made. It will probably has consciousness, where did it came? For example. That's why i am starting to think that this consciousness is not an individualistic thing, it is something that we cannot really comprehend, imagine it as a infinite pool, and every living creature once started gets a drop of consciousness of this pool. The pool while being infinite cannot be emptied or prefilled. Also, in reality when does consciousness appear in the humans? Is it from birth? Is it from just being alive? Is it still in the sperm? That's why i lean into my kind of thinking as the concept of religious soul is poorly thought as we don't even know when does that soul appear.

but you dont see any human around being immortal. so the moment of death will happen. how can you not know that?

so everything of you will be lost after the moment of death

That's what i was trying to explain, even when you die in this body, you will instantly 'rebirth' in another person's or animal's or even plant's body and you will never know that you have died because the memories will be erased once you become a baby something (plant/animal/human/alien if you want/anything multicellicular living thing) and you can never recall that you died.

our bodies change but something keeps the experiential continuity on our ego. what is that?

will that experiential continuity on our ego end once we die

That was the pool of souls / consciousness or whatever you want to call it. I mean it doesn't really exist in the physical or spiritual sense as you can never see it or feel it. It is just an imaginary concept of the possible actual thing (just because i cannot tell you that nothing creates something). Our Ego in the sense of body/memories/everything connected with us will die, it is bound to die, but the actual feeling that we are experiencing right now as the feeling of being alive (if you call that the ego, then my bad) will continue to 'live' in different timelines / bodies or anything alive multicellicular. At least that's what i think. Imagine it as a radio tower of consciousness and our brains as transmitters. I mean, to me at least it kinda makes at least some sense and at least it is not as a negative expectation as being reborn again in the same body over and over.

 

[wollet2]

Interesting case is if you don't die and then just a copy of you (cloning) is made. It will probably has consciousness, where did it came? For example. That's why i am starting to think that this consciousness is not an individualistic thing, it is something that we cannot really comprehend, imagine it as a infinite pool, and every living creature once started gets a drop of consciousness of this pool. The pool while being infinite cannot be emptied or prefilled. Also, in reality when does consciousness appear in the humans? Is it from birth? Is it from just being alive? Is it still in the sperm? That's why i lean into my kind of thinking as the concept of religious soul is poorly thought as we don't even know when does that soul appear.

That's what i was trying to explain, even when you die in this body, you will instantly 'rebirth' in another person's or animal's or even plant's body and you will never know that you have died because the memories will be erased once you become a baby something (plant/animal/human/alien if you want/anything multicellicular living thing) and you can never recall that you died.

That was the pool of souls / consciousness or whatever you want to call it. I mean it doesn't really exist in the physical or spiritual sense as you can never see it or feel it. It is just an imaginary concept of the possible actual thing (just because i cannot tell you that nothing creates something). Our Ego in the sense of body/memories/everything connected with us will die, it is bound to die, but the actual feeling that we are experiencing right now as the feeling of being alive (if you call that the ego, then my bad) will continue to 'live' in different timelines / bodies or anything alive multicellicular. At least that's what i think. Imagine it as a radio tower of consciousness and our brains as transmitters. I mean, to me at least it kinda makes at least some sense and at least it is not as a negative expectation as being reborn again in the same body over and over.

yeah what you said also makes sense to me. i believe (makes the most sense) in non religious or spiritual reincarnation for years.

or in other words the continuity of experience. i dont know what that experience continues to be, i thought your current ego dies (until at some point it gets reborn), and you randomly continue your experience reborn as anything.

in the 1st person pov what happens is for example, you feel unable to breath, you die, instantly you start experiencing as a fetus/baby or anything

i also believe in some concept of consiousness pool/source and the brains just being the organ required to receive the signal.

 

[wollet2]

I mean, to me at least it kinda makes at least some sense and at least it is not as a negative expectation as being reborn again in the same body over and over.

infinite reincarnation as anything ever is horrifying. the bad is so much more than the good it makes it hell

but re experiencing the same ego forever sounds even more suffocating, it is hell in some cases. if it was a lucky/good ego that lived a good life sure, i absolutely take that over infinite random reincarnations

 

[Deleted member 67558]

infinite reincarnation as anything ever is horrifying. the bad is so much more than the good it makes it hell

but re experiencing the same ego forever sounds even more suffocating, it is hell in some cases. if it was a lucky/good ego that lived a good life sure, i absolutely take that over infinite random reincarnations

Well, yeah, the only one who can be happy to be infinitely reborn in the same body would be chad. For me it would be hell.

 

[wollet2]

@EdgeLord69
i view it this way
there are 2 selfs
you as the continuity of experience, which is always there, eternal
and 'you' which is the current ego, your current continuity of experience

 

[wollet2]

Well, yeah, the only one who can be happy to be infinitely reborn in the same body would be chad. For me it would be hell.

it would incentivise you to get the absolute best out of your life but holy how horrifying that is in some lifes. utter hell

 

[Deleted member 67558]

@EdgeLord69
i view it this way
there are 2 selfs
you as the continuity of experience, which is always there, eternal
and 'you' which is the current ego, your current continuity of experience

Yeah, exactly. In the real life only the latter is used. In philosophical discussions both. Tbh in this way of thinking i have been chad, but now i am non-NT htn.

 

[wollet2]

Yeah, exactly. In the real life only the latter is used. In philosophical discussions both. Tbh in this way of thinking i have been chad, but now i am non-NT htn.

lets say experience never ends. i mean we can point to a non experience as observers,
"x person is unconscious, he has no experience"
but we can never experience it in 1st person pov

when we go unconscious at some point we must regain consciousness
even when we go into a dreamless sleep (which is not full unconsciousness) we close our eyelids and it feels like we instantly open them again (after we have fallen asleep). there are 2 points of experience between this non experience. hence we can tell we were in a non experience

@EdgeLord69 so do you believe we reincarnate as anything randomly (could be same body, face, brain, different hair colour, different life experience)

or we reincarnate as the same ego, same experience

 

[Deleted member 67558]

lets say experience never ends. i mean we can point to a non experience as observers,
"x person is unconscious, he has no experience"
but we can never experience it in 1st person pov

when we go unconscious at some point we must regain consciousness
even when we go into a dreamless sleep (which is not full unconsciousness) we close our eyelids and it feels like we instantly open them again (after we have fallen asleep). there are 2 points of experience between this non experience. hence we can tell we were in a non experience

@EdgeLord69 so do you believe we reincarnate as anything randomly (could be same body, face, brain, different hair colour, different life experience)

or we reincarnate as the same ego, same experience

I belive we can reincarnate into everything alive. I am just not sure if that counts single celullar organisms. I don't even know if that includes animals or plants or only more intelligent beings. I have no idea. Or even only living things with central nervous system.