We FINALLY can grow our OWN BONES into the shape we desire, THE END OF IMPLANTS.

[Midface of Death]

Most informative post on the future of bone augmentation, I say future, but we ALREADY can get it, and that is 3D-printed bone scaffolds.

I AM NOT AN EXPERT.
I LACK COMPREHENSION OF THE INTRICANCIES OF BIOLOGICAL AND CHEMICAL PROCESSES.
I'M LIKELY MISSING MAJOR POINTS ABOUT IT, THINGS I DIDN'T TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION.
I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR YOUR THOUGHTS ON THIS, LET'S DISCUSS IT!
​

"The knowledge of the circumstances of which we must make use never exists in concentrated or integrated form but solely as the dispersed bits of incomplete and frequently contradictory knowledge which all the separate individuals possess." ​

― Friedrich von Hayek

BONE GRAFTS​

That's not what I'm going to talk about, but knowing this concept is key for full understanding. I believe that most of you have heard about bone grafts, that cosists of a material that is used to stimulate the body's natural bone growth. This material can be synthetic or derived from natural sources, such as from the patient's own body or from a donor. Over time, the body replaces this material with its own bone tissue, essentially turning the implant into real bone.
As I said above, there are a few types of grafts, some of them are:

• Autologous bone grafting: Bone tissue harvested from the patient's own body.
• Allografts: Bone tissue obtained from a donor.
• Xenografts: Bone tissue sourced from animal donors.
• Synthetic bone substitutes: Biocompatible materials designed to mimic the properties of bone.

Each of them has pros and cons, I won't go through them here, you can google it if you want, let's focus on the core matter.

3D-PRINTED BONE SCAFFOLDS​

Basically we're talking about grafting synthetic bone, just like custom silicone implants and stuff like that, in other words, you'll get bones that match your anatomy perfectly, based on MSI/CT Scans. That's very important, because one of the biggest issues with bone grafts is that the surgeon would have to shape it manually and with big limitations, that means unpredictability.
That also serves as a scaffold, simply put, allowing your own body to turn it into natural bone, YOUR bone. Obviously, there are no procedures free of limitations or possible issues, such as resorption, rejection, among others, but these can be mitigated.
As far as I know, the two main options are hydroxyapatite and tricalcium phosphate. Maybe you've already heard about hydroxyapatite paste, commonly used to treat bone defects, also used cosmetically, for the malar area, for example, but much less common than conventional implants. Essentially, it's hydroxyapatite in a "liquified state". However, it's not ideal for convexities; it's better suited for concavities, such as the paranasal areas. Due to its difficulty in shaping, it often yields unpredictable results. Dr. Eppley talks about it in this article.
There are even some times that he mentions that hydroxyapatite paste doesn't turn into bone.
Since we already can 3D-print hydroxyapatite, we don't have the predictability problem anymore. And from what the companies are saying those scaffolds DO turn into bone.
Here's the links of some of the companies, see for yourself.

• LYTHOZ
• CERHUM
• OSSIFORM

APPLICATIONS​

It's expected that the main uses of this technology are for medical purposes, not cosmetic. However if you can adress more complex concerns, why wouldn't you be able to add 5mm to the infraorbital rim, 3mm to the malar prominence and improve your ogee curve, for example.
So now I'm going to tell you some areas where I think it would be ideal and areas where I think we have better options.

• Anterior midface augmentation: Most midface surgeries for anterior advancement are just unrealistic. If you're not a real candidate, you shouldn't consider Le Fort 3, OBO, it's just medieval, and most surgeons will not do that. So I think that scaffolds would be perfect for anterior projection and mitigating the lack of forward growth, specifically targeting the infraorbital rim and the anterior part of the zygomatic bone, that would also be the solution for lack of bone mass. If there is insufficient lateral projection, a Zygomatic Sandwich Osteotomy can be performed to reposition the zygomatic bone, followed by the use of scaffolds to address any anterior deficiency.​
• Jaw widening and lower third imperfections: I believe that, when it comes to the lower third, osteotomies are the best options, mainly because it looks natural and also fix not only aesthetics issues, but functional ones. However, scaffolds could be amazing for things that only an implant would be suited to. Take me as an example. I have an above-average jaw—it's wide, has good visibility, good projection, and a long ramus. However, the border of the ramus is slightly inward, so it's not very visible from the side profile. To me, a solution to this "problem" could be grafting synthetic bone to that area, but I'm not sure.​
• Any other lack of bone: Asymmetries, brown ridge, dentistry, maybe supraorbitals, you name it, just don't expect you'll be able to get a PSL skull, focus on failos, then think about halos, and don't overdo it, because you can fall deep into the uncanny valley.​
• Limb lengthening: That's something that I wouldn't expect to see in the near future, but research is being done on this subject. Check out the video down below.​

​

Keywords: 3D-printed scaffolds, 3D-printed bone graft, 3D-printed bone substitutes, bone augmentation.

 

[Deleted member 21182]

DNRD but GrAYcel legend

 

[chadintraining]

Most informative post on the future of bone augmentation, I say future, but we ALREADY can get it, and that is 3D-printed bone scaffolds.

I AM NOT AN EXPERT.
I LACK COMPREHENSION OF THE INTRICANCIES OF BIOLOGICAL AND CHEMICAL PROCESSES.
I'M LIKELY MISSING MAJOR POINTS ABOUT IT, THINGS I DIDN'T TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION.
I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR YOUR THOUGHTS ON THIS, LET'S DISCUSS IT!



BONE GRAFTS​

That's not what I'm going to talk about, but knowing this concept is key for full understanding. I believe that most of you have heard about bone grafts, that cosists of a material that is used to stimulate the body's natural bone growth. This material can be synthetic or derived from natural sources, such as from the patient's own body or from a donor. Over time, the body replaces this material with its own bone tissue, essentially turning the implant into real bone.
As I said above, there are a few types of grafts, some of them are:

• Autologous bone grafting: Bone tissue harvested from the patient's own body.
• Allografts: Bone tissue obtained from a donor.
• Xenografts: Bone tissue sourced from animal donors.
• Synthetic bone substitutes: Biocompatible materials designed to mimic the properties of bone.

Each of them has pros and cons, I won't go through them here, you can google it if you want, let's focus on the core matter.

3D-PRINTED BONE SCAFFOLDS​

Basically we're talking about grafting synthetic bone, just like custom silicone implants and stuff like that, in other words, you'll get bones that match your anatomy perfectly, based on MSI/CT Scans. That's very important, because one of the biggest issues with bone grafts is that the surgeon would have to shape it manually and with big limitations, that means unpredictability.
That also serves as a scaffold, simply put, allowing your own body to turn it into natural bone, YOUR bone. Obviously, there are no procedures free of limitations or possible issues, such as resorption, rejection, among others, but these can be mitigated.
As far as I know, the two main options are hydroxyapatite and tricalcium phosphate. Maybe you've already heard about hydroxyapatite paste, commonly used to treat bone defects, also used cosmetically, for the malar area, for example, but much less common than conventional implants. Essentially, it's hydroxyapatite in a "liquified state". However, it's not ideal for convexities; it's better suited for concavities, such as the paranasal areas. Due to its difficulty in shaping, it often yields unpredictable results. Dr. Eppley talks about it in this article.
There are even some times that he mentions that hydroxyapatite paste doesn't turn into bone.
Since we already can 3D-print hydroxyapatite, we don't have the predictability problem anymore. And from what the companies are saying those scaffolds DO turn into bone.
Here's the links of some of the companies, see for yourself.

• LYTHOZ
• CERHUM
• OSSIFORM

APPLICATIONS​

It's expected that the main uses of this technology are for medical purposes, not cosmetic. However if you can adress more complex concerns, why wouldn't you be able to add 5mm to the infraorbital rim, 3mm to the malar prominence and improve your ogee curve, for example.
So now I'm going to tell you some areas where I think it would be ideal and areas where I think we have better options.

• Anterior midface augmentation: Most midface surgeries for anterior advancement are just unrealistic. If you're not a real candidate, you shouldn't consider Le Fort 3, OBO, it's just medieval, and most surgeons will not do that. So I think that scaffolds would be perfect for anterior projection and mitigating the lack of forward growth, specifically targeting the infraorbital rim and the anterior part of the zygomatic bone, that would also be the solution for lack of bone mass. If there is insufficient lateral projection, a Zygomatic Sandwich Osteotomy can be performed to reposition the zygomatic bone, followed by the use of scaffolds to address any anterior deficiency.​
• Jaw widening and lower third imperfections: I believe that, when it comes to the lower third, osteotomies are the best options, mainly because it looks natural and also fix not only aesthetics issues, but functional ones. However, scaffolds could be amazing for things that only an implant would be suited to. Take me as an example. I have an above-average jaw—it's wide, has good visibility, good projection, and a long ramus. However, the border of the ramus is slightly inward, so it's not very visible from the side profile. To me, a solution to this "problem" could be grafting synthetic bone to that area, but I'm not sure.​
• Any other lack of bone: Asymmetries, brown ridge, dentistry, maybe supraorbitals, you name it, just don't expect you'll be able to get a PSL skull, focus on failos, then think about halos, and don't overdo it, because you can fall deep into the uncanny valley.​
• Limb lengthening: That's something that I wouldn't expect to see in the near future, but research is being done on this subject. Check out the video down below.​

​

Keywords: 3D-printed scaffolds, 3D-printed bone graft, 3D-printed bone substitutes, bone augmentation.

This could easily be the future of hardmaxxing

 

[Midface of Death]

This could easily be the future of hardmaxxing

IT IS, MY MAN.

 

[arab_chink]

Most informative post on the future of bone augmentation, I say future, but we ALREADY can get it, and that is 3D-printed bone scaffolds.

I AM NOT AN EXPERT.
I LACK COMPREHENSION OF THE INTRICANCIES OF BIOLOGICAL AND CHEMICAL PROCESSES.
I'M LIKELY MISSING MAJOR POINTS ABOUT IT, THINGS I DIDN'T TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION.
I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR YOUR THOUGHTS ON THIS, LET'S DISCUSS IT!



BONE GRAFTS​

That's not what I'm going to talk about, but knowing this concept is key for full understanding. I believe that most of you have heard about bone grafts, that cosists of a material that is used to stimulate the body's natural bone growth. This material can be synthetic or derived from natural sources, such as from the patient's own body or from a donor. Over time, the body replaces this material with its own bone tissue, essentially turning the implant into real bone.
As I said above, there are a few types of grafts, some of them are:

• Autologous bone grafting: Bone tissue harvested from the patient's own body.
• Allografts: Bone tissue obtained from a donor.
• Xenografts: Bone tissue sourced from animal donors.
• Synthetic bone substitutes: Biocompatible materials designed to mimic the properties of bone.

Each of them has pros and cons, I won't go through them here, you can google it if you want, let's focus on the core matter.

3D-PRINTED BONE SCAFFOLDS​

Basically we're talking about grafting synthetic bone, just like custom silicone implants and stuff like that, in other words, you'll get bones that match your anatomy perfectly, based on MSI/CT Scans. That's very important, because one of the biggest issues with bone grafts is that the surgeon would have to shape it manually and with big limitations, that means unpredictability.
That also serves as a scaffold, simply put, allowing your own body to turn it into natural bone, YOUR bone. Obviously, there are no procedures free of limitations or possible issues, such as resorption, rejection, among others, but these can be mitigated.
As far as I know, the two main options are hydroxyapatite and tricalcium phosphate. Maybe you've already heard about hydroxyapatite paste, commonly used to treat bone defects, also used cosmetically, for the malar area, for example, but much less common than conventional implants. Essentially, it's hydroxyapatite in a "liquified state". However, it's not ideal for convexities; it's better suited for concavities, such as the paranasal areas. Due to its difficulty in shaping, it often yields unpredictable results. Dr. Eppley talks about it in this article.
There are even some times that he mentions that hydroxyapatite paste doesn't turn into bone.
Since we already can 3D-print hydroxyapatite, we don't have the predictability problem anymore. And from what the companies are saying those scaffolds DO turn into bone.
Here's the links of some of the companies, see for yourself.

• LYTHOZ
• CERHUM
• OSSIFORM

APPLICATIONS​

It's expected that the main uses of this technology are for medical purposes, not cosmetic. However if you can adress more complex concerns, why wouldn't you be able to add 5mm to the infraorbital rim, 3mm to the malar prominence and improve your ogee curve, for example.
So now I'm going to tell you some areas where I think it would be ideal and areas where I think we have better options.

• Anterior midface augmentation: Most midface surgeries for anterior advancement are just unrealistic. If you're not a real candidate, you shouldn't consider Le Fort 3, OBO, it's just medieval, and most surgeons will not do that. So I think that scaffolds would be perfect for anterior projection and mitigating the lack of forward growth, specifically targeting the infraorbital rim and the anterior part of the zygomatic bone, that would also be the solution for lack of bone mass. If there is insufficient lateral projection, a Zygomatic Sandwich Osteotomy can be performed to reposition the zygomatic bone, followed by the use of scaffolds to address any anterior deficiency.​
• Jaw widening and lower third imperfections: I believe that, when it comes to the lower third, osteotomies are the best options, mainly because it looks natural and also fix not only aesthetics issues, but functional ones. However, scaffolds could be amazing for things that only an implant would be suited to. Take me as an example. I have an above-average jaw—it's wide, has good visibility, good projection, and a long ramus. However, the border of the ramus is slightly inward, so it's not very visible from the side profile. To me, a solution to this "problem" could be grafting synthetic bone to that area, but I'm not sure.​
• Any other lack of bone: Asymmetries, brown ridge, dentistry, maybe supraorbitals, you name it, just don't expect you'll be able to get a PSL skull, focus on failos, then think about halos, and don't overdo it, because you can fall deep into the uncanny valley.​
• Limb lengthening: That's something that I wouldn't expect to see in the near future, but research is being done on this subject. Check out the video down below.​

​

Keywords: 3D-printed scaffolds, 3D-printed bone graft, 3D-printed bone substitutes, bone augmentation.

Mental jerkoff, nobody is gonna allow this

 

[Midface of Death]

Mental jerkoff, nobody is gonna allow this

Tell me why? It already exists.

 

[arab_chink]

Tell me why? It already exists.

They didnt allow infinite hair donors, plus where are you gonna get the bone from?

 

[Midface of Death]

Mental jerkoff, nobody is gonna allow this

I don't see the point, implants, osteotomies, grafts harvested from your fucking skull, from cadavers, everything is allowed, and you tell me that's not possible, considering that people ALREADY use HA, it's just in another form. It's just graft, but synthetic.

 

[Midface of Death]

They didnt allow infinite hair donors, plus where are you gonna get the bone from?

Man, this subhuman didn't even read the post.

 

[arab_chink]

I don't see the point, implants, osteotomies, grafts harvested from your fucking skull, from cadavers, everything is allowed, and you tell me that's not possible, considering that people ALREADY use HA, it's just in another form. It's just graft, but synthetic.

I mean i dont know, they probably hon do it some africain country

 

[Midface of Death]

If you google the names, you'll see that they're based in the USA and EU.
I mean, those who manufacture the scaffolds.
In the video I linked, you can see the guy talk about how the GRAFTS are already being used.
You can contact the company, there is even the sales contact.
I will eventually contact them, see what they can do about infraorbital rim and malar region.

 

[Deleted member 43806]

@RealSurgerymax Is this a potential valid option by idk let’s say 2035 or just copium fuel?

 

[Kirby7000]

@RealSurgerymax Is this a potential valid option by idk let’s say 2035 or just copium fuel?

waste of time unless for us its over the time it comes out

 

[Deleted member 23472]

@RealSurgerymax Is this a potential valid option by idk let’s say 2035 or just copium fuel?

@RealSurgerymax I've heard Sailer has done some stuff like this with Cheekbone implants btw

 

[RealSurgerymax]

@RealSurgerymax Is this a potential valid option by idk let’s say 2035 or just copium fuel?

No it just resorbs (reduces) and remodels to a different shape and smaller size than you designed it

Autologous (from your own body) bone is the gold standard for bone graft survival and if it isn’t exposed to load (as in dental implants) or filling a defect (like a hole in the bone) then Onlay bone grafts always resorb. Artificial bone has even worse survival. Especially scaffolds that are only partially osteoconductive like HA.

@RealSurgerymax I've heard Sailer has done some stuff like this with Cheekbone implants btw

He uses lyophilized cartilage and it’s not great. I can remember talking to Vikram Shetty (who sailer influenced) a few years ago and he was completely on the lyophilzed cartilage train and I just didn’t try to argue just said ok even though I know 100% it’s BS.

 

[Midface of Death]

No it just resorbs (reduces) and remodels to a different shape and smaller size than you designed it

Autologous (from your own body) bone is the gold standard for bone graft survival and if it isn’t exposed to load (as in dental implants) or filling a defect (like a hole in the bone) then Onlay bone grafts always resorb. Artificial bone has even worse survival. Especially scaffolds that are only partially osteoconductive like HA.


He uses lyophilized cartilage and it’s not great. I can remember talking to Vikram Shetty (who sailer influenced) a few years ago and he was completely on the lyophilzed cartilage train and I just didn’t try to argue just said ok even though I know 100% it’s BS.

OK, maybe it has its limitations, but do you realize that is just matter of time before that becomes the gold standard? On one of their pages they say that resorption can be reduced through some type o geometry or something like that. There is also technology to prevent resorption from happening, like Exogen sonic bone therapy. The only thing that needs to be addressed is the resorption problem, that's it, as far as I know we're almost there. And again, it's already being used, just not for ascension.

 

[Midface of Death]

Anyways, I've contacted them. As soon as I get a reply, I'll be letting you guys know. We have to watch this closely, I only gave you some companies, and tried to elucidate your minds for this technology. Go do your research, there are many companies in this field already.

 

[Mewton]

Did read. Mogs

 

[copemaxxeer]

Can this be used for chin implants?

 

[longjohnmong]

@RealSurgerymax Is this a potential valid option by idk let’s say 2035 or just copium fuel?

@RealSurgerymax What is the meaning of life? Why does something exist rather than nothing?

 

[DelonLover1999]

This reminds me of Coceancig's technique of stimulating a bit of bone growth in the mandible through slow expansion of a 'screw' mechanism thats placed inside it

Fascinating stuff, tbh

 

[shadowassassin424]

No it just resorbs (reduces) and remodels to a different shape and smaller size than you designed it

Autologous (from your own body) bone is the gold standard for bone graft survival and if it isn’t exposed to load (as in dental implants) or filling a defect (like a hole in the bone) then Onlay bone grafts always resorb. Artificial bone has even worse survival. Especially scaffolds that are only partially osteoconductive like HA.


He uses lyophilized cartilage and it’s not great. I can remember talking to Vikram Shetty (who sailer influenced) a few years ago and he was completely on the lyophilzed cartilage train and I just didn’t try to argue just said ok even though I know 100% it’s BS.

ive not had my second molar erupt since birth. as a result my teeth are gapped and the left side of my jawbone isnt as dense as the right. would getting a molar dental implant and bone grafts thicken the jawbone?

 

[SwollenNotSwole]

Am actual recovering from this surgery rn. Custom tricalcium phosphate saddled infras. Too swollen to asses asethetic results. Some thoughts...

1) it was ridiculously expensive. I think I spent 3x more than I would have for PEEK.

2) Some reabsorption is inevitable, but afaik this is true of your real bone too.

3) Some design limitations because of how brittle the material is. For instance, my infras. stop before reaching my inner canthus.

For pure aesthetics seems like...Titanium, PEEK still mogs. I just liked the idea of having mostly bone.

 

[wastedspermcel]

I WILL DO THIS SHIT AS SOON AS REPUTABLE SURGEONS USING THIS WILL EXIST

 

[Midface of Death]

Am actual recovering from this surgery rn. Custom tricalcium phosphate saddled infras. Too swollen to asses asethetic results. Some thoughts...

1) it was ridiculously expensive. I think I spent 3x more than I would have for PEEK.

2) Some reabsorption is inevitable, but afaik this is true of your real bone too.

3) Some design limitations because of how brittle the material is. For instance, my infras. stop before reaching my inner canthus.

For pure aesthetics seems like...Titanium, PEEK still mogs. I just liked the idea of having mostly bone.

So good to hear it, my brother. Wish you a good recovery and that you get the results you're looking for.

 

[Midface of Death]

Am actual recovering from this surgery rn. Custom tricalcium phosphate saddled infras. Too swollen to asses asethetic results. Some thoughts...

1) it was ridiculously expensive. I think I spent 3x more than I would have for PEEK.

2) Some reabsorption is inevitable, but afaik this is true of your real bone too.

3) Some design limitations because of how brittle the material is. For instance, my infras. stop before reaching my inner canthus.

For pure aesthetics seems like...Titanium, PEEK still mogs. I just liked the idea of having mostly bone.

Can I PM you to ask you some questions about the procedure?

 

[moze]

No it just resorbs (reduces) and remodels to a different shape and smaller size than you designed it

Autologous (from your own body) bone is the gold standard for bone graft survival and if it isn’t exposed to load (as in dental implants) or filling a defect (like a hole in the bone) then Onlay bone grafts always resorb. Artificial bone has even worse survival. Especially scaffolds that are only partially osteoconductive like HA.


He uses lyophilized cartilage and it’s not great. I can remember talking to Vikram Shetty (who sailer influenced) a few years ago and he was completely on the lyophilzed cartilage train and I just didn’t try to argue just said ok even though I know 100% it’s BS.

why lyophilized cartilage is 100% BS?

 

[longjohnmong]

plastic mogs