What a "wide head" actually is

[truthhurts]

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gave her a proper jaw

ascended her from girl to woman

Who’s the one Disney character that got compared with Dream, when he revealed his face?

It gives me that vibes from your morph

 

[FiendFiend]

"Leanmaxxing" is a meme, wide faces can look better lean but they still look wide just not as subhuman when you're fat. The fat only covers bones when you're literally obese.

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Skull is everything: above (incel), below (has a girlfriend).
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jfl at this cope hes incel in both.

Also not true, wide faces look way more fat at normal bf %. Barrett has to starve to look human. But then again would barrett even model if he didnt have his wide face? think abt it saar.

If u just leanmax and u got a good bone structure but ur face is wide, ur fine.

 

[Lookologist003]

No, ESR is an effect of what I've described. You can have high ESR and retruded lateral orbital rims.

You would look good with that combo. I have already thought about what you're asserting. It confused me for a while, but it's not related to the angle of the rims whatsoever. It's simply because lower ESR causes the head to narrow, and then the sides of the head are less parallel to the front. Good ESR is good ESR.

Fucking hell I'm having a super low IQ day today

Morph to improve it:

I fucked up a bit, but I think broadening that guy's IPD ameliorates the uncanny look

 

[Klasik616]

jfl But then again would barrett even model if he didnt have his wide face? think abt it saar.

Barrett would be high appeal if his head were less wide. Barrett would not look like a blocky head, he would look like a normal human being. Wide face is never good accept it. Also wide face makes you look bloated when you're old.

 

[thecel]

It's an effect of ESR. Don't over complicate it.
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[Lookologist003]

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Thank you. I thought I was going fucking crazy.

 

[thecel]

You would look good with that combo. I have already thought about what you're asserting. It confused me for a while, but it's not related to the angle of the rims whatsoever. It's simply because lower ESR causes the head to narrow, and then the sides of the head are less parallel to the front. Good ESR is good ESR.

Fucking hell I'm having a super low IQ day today


View attachment 3732967
I fucked up a bit, but I think broadening that guy's IPD ameliorates the uncanny look

Interesting call. But IDK how wide his eyes are (I didn’t see a front pic of him) so we dunno if your edit actually gives him hypertelorism

 

[Klasik616]

"If u just leanmax and u got a good bone structure but ur face is wide, ur fine"

Debunked

 

[Lookologist003]

Interesting call. But IDK how wide his eyes are (I didn’t see a front pic of him) so we dunno if your edit actually gives him hypertelorism

If I had a little more drive and a lot more talent, I think my idea of broadening his IPD (and his zygos) is the backbone of making him attractive. Not only does it add more bone mass, but it makes his eyes look less sunken and face more boxy, robust, you know.

I really just want to emphaise how big of an issue fucked up ESRs are. ESR is paramount to human's ability to sympathise, I guess. Top ratios are
1. ESR
2. Cephalic index
3. mid face

I feel trapped by my IQ. I have no idea how to explain what I want to explain. Maybe I should just go start drinking and forget tonight.

 

[thecel]

Thank you. I thought I was going fucking crazy.

All he’s saying is the ESR is the effect of the bones themselves

Which is true since ESR is a measurement

And btw what do you think about the possibility that different people’s eyes are positioned differently within the orbits? Maybe we can't assume that the eyeballs are at the midpoint between the interior sidewalls of each orbit.

 

[Xangsane is SHIT]

I fucked up a bit, but I think broadening that guy's IPD ameliorates the uncanny look

Learned a new word today.

He does just need wider orbitals but even then it's still a bit too much projection.

 

[thecel]

1. ESR
2. Cephalic index
3. mid face

and for me…

ALL 3 ARE TRASH!

 

[Xangsane is SHIT]

we dunno if your edit actually gives him hypertelorism

Hypertelorism is a good thing

 

[thecel]

Barrett would be high appeal if his head were less wide. Barrett would not look like a blocky head, he would look like a normal human being. Wide face is never good accept it. Also wide face makes you look bloated when you're old.

brutal maxillary recession

 

[Klasik616]

View attachment 3733051

brutal maxillary recession

And still looks wide asf from the front

 

[thecel]

brutal blackpill: your looks determine your life.

If this kid

lives in a Western country, he’ll go to school with a boy who looks like

How will their lives turn out?

…

vs

brutal.

 

[Lookologist003]

And btw what do you think about the possibility that different people’s eyes are positioned differently within the orbits? Maybe we can't assume that IPD is 50% of the distance between the interior lateral orbital walls.

No clue. I guess the eyeballs are pretty center because of the optical nerve. Anyway, it's not about where the eyeballs are positioned, it's about the central point of the orbits. If you took the eyeball out, people with no eyeballs and an ESR of 0.33 would look still look really shit, because ESR is about the orbits and frontal bone.

Maybe we can't assume that IPD is 50% of the distance between the interior lateral orbital walls.

IPD is the distance between the central point of each orbit. If you did some polygonal analysis on the shape of the orbits, you could find the central point, I just eyeball it in this illustration. The important thing about it is how it causes the FRONTAL BONE TO TAPER AND BECOME INCEL AND NARROW and really disgusting. We really dislike the look of the skull on the right.

Hypertelorism is a good thing

Did you know that VR headsets have an IPD setting? I was shopping the other day and @thecel was in my thoughts when I read about the advertised 'Adjustable IPD'

 

[first snow]

@Xangsane is SHIT @Lookologist003

This is what happens when you fall for muh "straight boxy orbital" PSL meme, getting an implant that makes your brow ridge go straight across:

View attachment 3732925

how do his eyes still look cucked in the after even with browridge

 

[FiendFiend]

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Debunked

tf is htis meant to mean

 

[FiendFiend]

Barrett would be high appeal if his head were less wide. Barrett would not look like a blocky head, he would look like a normal human being. Wide face is never good accept it. Also wide face makes you look bloated when you're old.

do a morph of him without wide skull i dare u

 

[Xangsane is SHIT]

how do his eyes still look cucked in the after even with browridge

Narrow and otherwise weak orbital bones.

 

[Klasik616]

do a morph of him without wide skull i dare u

I have done it before and he looks slighty better, he looks more normal and less alien. You are a male gaze coper if you think wide skulls look better on men you might as well think ogres are attractive.

 

[Klasik616]

brutal blackpill: your looks determine your life.

If this kid

View attachment 3733058

lives in a Western country, he’ll go to school with a boy who looks like

View attachment 3733056

How will their lives turn out?

…

View attachment 3733063

vs

View attachment 3733066View attachment 3733069

brutal.

You need to copy paste this and make a thread

 

[Xangsane is SHIT]

brutal blackpill: your looks determine your life.

If this kid

View attachment 3733058

lives in a Western country, he’ll go to school with a boy who looks like

View attachment 3733056

How will their lives turn out?

…

View attachment 3733063

vs

View attachment 3733066View attachment 3733069

brutal.

 

[thecel]

@Lookologist003 @Xangsane is SHIT

Sorry if I’m beating a dead horse with autism here, but we got a real patient to demo on:

 

[Lookologist003]

@Lookologist003 @Xangsane is SHIT

Sorry if I’m beating a dead horse with autism here, but we got a real patient to demo on:

View attachment 3733232

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What is this?

 

[Lookologist003]

@thecel
@Xangsane is SHIT
There are effects of ESR greater than we know...

^ ESR of 0.45

^ ESR of 0.47

Anyway, it's not about where the eyeballs are positioned, it's about the central point of the orbits. If you took the eyeball out, people with no eyeballs and an ESR of 0.33 would look still look really shit, because ESR is about the orbits and frontal bone.

The important thing about it is how it causes the FRONTAL BONE TO TAPER AND BECOME INCEL AND NARROW and really disgusting. We really dislike the look of the skull on the right.

Just look how much more normal and attractive his head looks when his IPD is broadened. @thecel notice how the orbits also become more hunter as ESR broadens. It's all linked buddy boyo.

I swear man, ESR is the most important part of your head. If it's abnormal, then ...

 

[Lookologist003]

It's an effect of ESR. Don't over complicate it.
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Actually, it's an effect of eye seperation ratio and the ratio of head breath to bizygomatic breath.

Chad looks are when ESR + head breath to bizygomatic breath = 1.3
Nevermind. That equation is fucking stupid. However, wide head is still takes ESR, head breath and bizygomatic breadth to describe a wide head.

@thecel
Check this shit out.

 

[Klasik616]

@thecel
@Xangsane is SHIT
There are effects of ESR greater than we know...
View attachment 3735780
^ ESR of 0.45
View attachment 3735782
^ ESR of 0.47



Just look how much more normal and attractive his head looks when his IPD is broadened. @thecel notice how the orbits also become more hunter as ESR broadens. It's all linked buddy boyo.

View attachment 3735850

I swear man, ESR is the most important part of your head. If it's abnormal, then ...
View attachment 3735777

Fucking brutal it has nothing to do with the size of his head just the ESR and temples. He also looks weird because his jaw is narrow compared to the upper party of the skull.

 

[Pollorex]

Fucking brutal it has nothing to do with the size of his head just the ESR and temples. He also looks weird because his jaw is narrow compared to the upper party of the skull.

He actually widened the frontal bone/glabella that's why

 

[anthony111553]

Fucking brutal it has nothing to do with the size of his head just the ESR and temples. He also looks weird because his jaw is narrow compared to the upper party of the skull.

your still coping huh

 

[Lookologist003]

He actually widened the frontal bone/glabella that's why

Correct, because the frontal bone meanders like a river to create a profile between the eminences of the skull and the width of the eye orbits. The part of ESR that is brutal actually has nothing to do with eye spacing itself, but its the fact that the skull conforms to low-ESR and results in a deformed shrunken face kind of look.

I want to rename ESR to orbital spacing ratio, orbits separation ratio (OSR), because it takes emphasis from the distance from the eyes and places emphasis in the cohesive structure of the skull. In my mind, that's what ESR means.

 

[mandiblade]

It's an effect of ESR. Don't over complicate it.
View attachment 3732897

Not exactly. It is a function of
1. Frontotemporale breadth
2. Interporion breadth(I think we should use another name in further discussions, though)

ESR is a product of interorbital width, frontotemporale width, and orbital width. These two concepts(eye spacing and moon-facedness) are not identical, nor synonymous

Spoiler: Rant about facial width

Facial width might entirely be determined by inter-porion distance. We don't really seem to perceive bi-zygomatic distance to be the edges of the face, unless bi-zygomatic distance is greater than or equal to inter-porion distance.

This is the porion btw:

Spoiler: Proof that ESR is not the determining factor in itself

If that doesn't work, paste this into your browser:
imgur.com/a/moonface-look-is-not-function-of-esr-cQFKWci

 

[mandiblade]

Best thread I've seen in a long time. Thanks to @Klasik616 @thecel @Xangsane is SHIT and lookologist

how do his eyes still look cucked in the after even with browridge

The overlooked importance and role of the periorbital contour in craniofacial aesthetics

Credit to @RealSurgerymax / Giant Implants ● The periorbital contour or so-called naso-orbital contour is the silhouette that can be traced reaching out from the supraorbital rim down to the alar crease of the nose, as such: ● These contours in specific are aesthetic and look attractive, as...

looksmax.org

Just look how much more normal and attractive his head looks when his IPD is broadened

Like the other guy said, you also changed his head shape. And like you said, you improved the proportionality between his inter-frontotemporale breadth and interpterion distance. You also changed a couple of the confounding variables I mentioned in my last post.

notice how the orbits also become more hunter as ESR broadens. It's all linked buddy boyo

It's a shadow of the PFL-to-PFH ratio. Biggest blackpill moment is realizing that we extrapolate all positive/negative facial features to everything(e.g. skulls and cars).

However, wide head is still takes ESR

Do you mean wide face here?

Correct, because the frontal bone meanders like a river to create a profile between the eminences of the skull and the width of the eye orbits. The part of ESR that is brutal actually has nothing to do with eye spacing itself, but its the fact that the skull conforms to low-ESR and results in a deformed shrunken face kind of look.

As I've stated, this is not exactly ESR. It is inter-frontotemporale breadth, which also influences ESR. ESR and how "moony" your face looks are parallel outcomes of inter-frontotemporale distance(with the former being dependent on other factors as well, as stated in my previous post).

I want to rename ESR to orbital spacing ratio, orbits separation ratio (OSR), because it takes emphasis from the distance from the eyes and places emphasis in the cohesive structure of the skull. In my mind, that's what ESR means.

OSR already exists. It is called interorbital breadth/distance. This name is already recognized within the medical literature. If we use a recognized name, it will make further blackpills easier to discover.
Again, you are conflating multiple things with ESR. I still want to thank you, however. You just helped me discover the entire concept of inter-frontotemporale breadth. Also, just FYI: the landmark is called "frontotemporale" with that e at the end.

 

[mandiblade]

@optimisticzoomer @AscendingHero @mvp2v1 @Zenis @Orc
You will also probably find this thread interesting

 

[Klasik616]

@optimisticzoomer @AscendingHero @mvp2v1 @Zenis @Orc
You will also probably find this thread interesting

this guy is interesting

 

[mandiblade]

@greycel @NuclearGeo20 @LTNUser

 

[Zenis]

@optimisticzoomer @AscendingHero @mvp2v1 @Zenis @Orc
You will also probably find this thread interesting

already knew this tbh

 

[Lookologist003]

be the edges of the face, unless bi-zygomatic distance is greater than or equal to inter-porion distance.

The only people who have a case where its lower are turbo subhumans I'm afraid. And in that case its un fixable because broadening Bizygo with implants would then throw off ESR or interfrontaltemporal. Over.

everything(e.g. skulls and cars).

People just really like rectangles that are squashed.

And like you said, you improved the proportionality between his inter-frontotemporale breadth and interpterion distance.

You said it. That's right. I was moving by intuition, but when you put it like that ...

Best thread I've seen in a long time.

This thread was gravy. Gandy himself must have been watching over it. Feels like important lesson in looks theory.

 

[mandiblade]

The only people who have a case where its lower are turbo subhumans I'm afraid.

I guess you're right. I have no idea what I was talking about when I wrote that lol. Lateral zygomatic flare seems to cause the bizygo breadth to be equal to interporion breadth in most cases. Half of my first post was invalidated lol.

(latter is a terachad)

But then again, as @thecel brought to light in this post:

💀 [9 Zygos Poll] What CHEEKBONE SHAPE Is the Most Aesthetic?

Zygomatic Bones The zygos: The zygomatic processes of the temporal bones: The horizontal breadth of the cheekbones (zygos) and the zygomatic processes, as well as how forward-set or rearward-set the front of the zygos are, contribute to facial aesthetics (and the lack thereof). A study...

looksmax.org

Different zygomatic shapes exist. Type III is absolutely truecel tier, but it seems to be an exception, and I don't think that is the whole story

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/types-1-4-zygomatic-bone-structures_fig1_274737792

Perhaps the moonface look is rather a function of the proportionality of the following two values:
1. Frontotemporale breadth
2. Interorbitale breadth(6,7 in image below)

...the proportionality between those two values and interpterion breadth and/or bizygomatic breadth? Your drawings show that when interorbitale:bizygomatic is cucked(aka too low), you have a moon face. On the other hand, when interfrontotemporale:interpterion is cucked(by being too low), you have another type of moonface, a moonskull .
(you can open the image in a new tab if you want)

And in that case its un fixable because broadening Bizygo with implants would then throw off ESR or interfrontaltemporal. Over

Do you mind elaborating in light of the new ratios? But yeah, the skullpill is even worse than the heightpill tbh.

You said it. That's right. I was moving by intuition, but when you put it like that ...

This thread was gravy. Gandy himself must have been watching over it. Feels like important lesson in looks theory.

 

[ToryToad]

Calling it "moon face" is like a big insult. That's 100% because of the moon emoji on Apple Iphones.

I guess this emoji is funny because it's subhuman.

damn.people at my school called me that for years

 

[Lookologist003]

skullpill is even worse than the heightpill tbh.

Let's say they are equals. Different versions of hell. Mogged by women everytime you leave the house as a manlet is a version of hell as is having a shrunken face. I think I'd rather have the shrunken face, because at least you don't have to be reminded each person who passes you how much of a failure of a man you are.

Do you mind elaborating in light of the new ratios?

There are real foundational deformities that some people have. The difference between Interptreion and frontotemporale breadth is a deathblow to your looks as it gets above zero. Your face will look more shrunken as apart of your skull as the difference grows above zero.

interorbitale:bizygomatic is cucked(aka too low),

This might not be so important. The difference between Interptreion and frontotemporale seems to be ultimate in its authority in the description of deformity. The difference seems to be the essence of the shittyness of low ESR.

I feel IQ stirring in my head. I think the vibe of Interorbitale:byzogomatic is spoken about in a thread you participated in about eyeball distance.

https://looksmax.org/threads/is-ipd-bizygomatic-esr-a-bad-ratio-a-new-ratio-for-eye-spacing.1451435/

In fact, I have a inkling that this interptreion and frontotemporale, and inner canthal distance and IPD are four significant and useful facts of the eye area and how it is seated in a face. Sean O'pry's eyes would look like shit in a moonskull.

This is the look of close set eyes, and low PFL, but no structrual deformity. *

And this morph is close-set eyes with structral deformity

*Do note that if you have structral Interptreion and frontotemporale deformity, it can be hidden with hair that covers the sides of the forehead, because that hides frontotemporale breadth making perception of your deformity impossible.

 

[Lookologist003]

There are real foundational deformities that some people have. The difference between Interptreion and frontotemporale breadth is a deathblow to your looks as it gets above zero. Your face will look more shrunken as apart of your skull as the difference grows above zero.

Yeah man. Fuck. What a dreadful realisation.

 

[Lookologist003]

This might not be so important. The difference between Interptreion and frontotemporale seems to be ultimate in its authority in the description of deformity. The difference seems to be the essence of the shittyness of low ESR.

I feel IQ stirring in my head. I think the vibe of Interorbitale:byzogomatic is spoken about in a thread you participated in about eyeball distance.

@mandiblade
You totally missed this banging illustration from Thecel. It shows both types of moonface, moonskull and spacially close set eyes. The bottom skull shows both a structrual deformity of interptreion and frontotemporale and high inner canthal distance to IPD.

Chad’s skull vs my skull:

I think we could call the structal deformity, type-I moonface, and the spacially close set eyes type-II moonface.