What makes someone's PFL wide?

[Entschuldigung]

It's the eyeball size? It can vary that much? or other factors i don't know?

 

[Deleted member 8583]

It's the eyeball size? It can vary that much? or other factors i don't know?

dno but ive got it tbh

 

[MisterMercedes]

No it’s the width of the bony orbit. Wide set zygos are typically the cause of high PFL.

 

[Deleted member 3020]

No it’s the width of the bony orbit. Wide set zygos are typically the cause of high PFL.

 

[Deleted member 6310]

I have no cheekbones and the longest pfl of anyone I know.

 

[MisterMercedes]

I have no cheekbones and the longest pfl of anyone I know.

If you’re going to use that as a rebuttal, you should at least send a picture.

 

[Warlow]

If you’re going to use that as a rebuttal, you should at least send a picture.

short ugly and brown? he has narrow zygos and insanely high pfl. Drago also has very wide zygos and low pfl

 

[Entschuldigung]

No it’s the width of the bony orbit. Wide set zygos are typically the cause of high PFL.

My zigos are 404 and i have 32mm

 

[MisterMercedes]

short ugly and brown? he has narrow zygos and insanely high pfl. Drago also has very wide zygos and low pfl

Again, send a picture if you’re going to use it as a rebuttal.

Drago does not have low PFL:

 

[godlikesz]

 

[MisterMercedes]

My zigos are 404 and i have 32mm

Once again, if you’re going to use that as a rebuttal, send a picture.

 

[Entschuldigung]

View attachment 722985

brb i can't see it clearly

maxing

 

[RichardwillImprove]

Again, send a picture if you’re going to use it as a rebuttal.

Drago does not have low PFL:

View attachment 722984

Wait so if I do cheeck bone shaving my pfl will decrease.

 

[Entschuldigung]

Again, send a picture if you’re going to use it as a rebuttal.

Drago does not have low PFL:

View attachment 722984

It's normal probably 30mm, normie for his fwhr

 

[MisterMercedes]

Wait so if I do cheeck bone shaving my pfl will decrease.

Don’t know about that procedure but lateral orbital expansion increases PFL.

 

[MisterMercedes]

It's normal probably 30mm, normie for his fwhr

His PFL looks higher than average.

 

[RichardwillImprove]

Don’t know about that procedure but lateral orbital expansion increases PFL.

Would u mind if I send u a photo to better explain what I mean.

 

[Warlow]

Again, send a picture if you’re going to use it as a rebuttal.

Drago does not have low PFL:

View attachment 722984

are these wide zygos to you? no.

 

[Deleted member 6310]

Wasn’t rebutting so much as just stating. I’ll pm you

 

[Deleted member 8583]

I have no cheekbones and the longest pfl of anyone I know.

same jfl

 

[MisterMercedes]

Would u mind if I send u a photo to better explain what I mean.

Sure.

 

[Warlow]

His PFL looks higher than average.

that's just not higher than average, i measured his in photoshop and got 25mm, so with a caliper he's probably 28mm which is average

 

[MisterMercedes]

View attachment 722989 are these wide zygos to you? no.

That’s not a great picture and he’s definitely squinting which makes his PFL look longer, but it could be that the orbital surface of his zygomatic is wider in relation to his Malar and temporal surface than the average person. It certainly looks that way as his cheekbones curve in down from the corner of his eyes where the orbital surface is.

 

[MisterMercedes]

that's just not higher than average, i measured his in photoshop and got 25mm, so with a caliper he's probably 28mm which is average

Sorry, don’t trust you saying you got a measurement on photoshop without even sending screenshots.

 

[MisterMercedes]

Not disagreeing with you, but how do you know this?

Lateral orbital expansion increases PFL, and lateral orbital expansion is expanding the lateral orbital rim (zygomatic).

Also eyelid shape is determined by orbital rims so wide orbital rims lead to wide eyelids and vice verse.

 

[Warlow]

Not disagreeing with you, but how do you know this?

That’s not a great picture and he’s definitely squinting which makes his PFL look longer, but it could be that the orbital surface of his zygomatic is wider in relation to his Malar and temporal surface than the average person. It certainly looks that way as his cheekbones curve in down from the corner of his eyes where the orbital surface is.

a whole bunch of words that don't add up tbh, wide zygos=wide fwhr, and as you said earlier wide pfl is attributed to wide zygos. His is very low, his pfl is 37mm he's already told us this.

 

[Warlow]

Sorry, don’t trust you saying you got a measurement on photoshop without even sending screenshots.

look at the very top L1 represents the length. 36/15=2.4x11.77( assuming his iris is 11.77mm)=28.25mm pfl, so very much average, normal pfl, not high by any means.

 

[MisterMercedes]

a whole bunch of words that don't add up tbh, wide zygos=wide fwhr, and as you said earlier wide pfl is attributed to wide zygos. His is very low, his pfl is 37mm he's already told us this.

Wide zygos can mean many different things and trying to simplify it like that is dishonest.

It could mean:

1) Zygomatic bones are positioned wider than average due to a wide skull

2) Zygomatic bones are high mass but not positioned wider than the average person

3) Zygomatic bones are average set but the temporal or malar surface is high mass making them look wi

4) Zygomatic bones are average set but the orbital surface is wider in relation to the other surfaces, and the position of the orbital surface affects PFL

Those aren’t the only things wide zygos could mean either.

The reason I am guessing his orbital surface is wider than his other surfaces is the shape of his cheekbones from front profile

As you can see, the part of his zygomatic closest to the corner of his eye is widest, and this is where the orbital surface is. The cheekbone then dips inward. This could mean his other surfaces are lower mass, positioned narrower than the orbital surface, or both.

 

[MisterMercedes]

Where did you learn this?

Looking up the procedure for lateral orbital expansion.

It’s basic anatomy that eyelids follow the shape of the orbital rims.

 

[Warlow]

Wide zygos can mean many different things and trying to simplify it like that is dishonest.

It could mean:

1) Zygomatic bones are positioned wider than average due to a wide skull

2) Zygomatic bones are high mass but not positioned wider than the average person

3) Zygomatic bones are average set but the temporal or malar surface is high mass making them look wi

4) Zygomatic bones are average set but the orbital surface is wider in relation to the other surfaces, and the position of the orbital surface affects PFL

Those aren’t the only things wide zygos could mean either.

The reason I am guessing his orbital surface is wider than his other surfaces is the shape of his cheekbones from front profile
View attachment 723015
As you can see, the part of his zygomatic closest to the corner of his eye is widest, and this is where the orbital surface is. The cheekbone then dips inward. This could mean his other surfaces are lower mass, positioned narrower than the orbital surface, or both.

trying so hard to defend a shit argument, his zygos are clearly recessed man.

 

[MisterMercedes]

View attachment 723013View attachment 723014
look at the very top L1 represents the length. 36/15=2.4x11.77( assuming his iris is 11.77mm)=28.25mm pfl, so very much average, normal pfl, not high by any means.

Measure this guy’s PFL as it is average and send screenshots of the result. It’ll be a good comparison to Drago to see if his PFL is higher than average:

 

[MisterMercedes]

trying so hard to defend a shit argument, his zygos are clearly recessed man.

Saying it’s a shit argument doesn’t constitute a rebuttal.

 

[Warlow]

Measure this guy’s PFL as it is average and send screenshots of the result. It’ll be a good comparison to Drago to see if his PFL is higher than average:
View attachment 723023

just use an example of a dude with subhuman PFL bro, no this does not constitute a good comparison. I measured his to gandy, gandy had 33mm, which is very much above average.

 

[Warlow]

Saying it’s a shit argument doesn’t constitute a rebuttal.

i debunked both of your arguments which is why i'm calling it shit, sorry man but it's true.

 

[MisterMercedes]

i debunked both of your arguments which is why i'm calling it shit, sorry man but it's true.

You didn’t debunk either. You said “your words don’t add up” and then sent a measurement of Drago’s PFL without using anyone to compare it to. I responded to both, and I’ll wait for you to address them.

 

[MisterMercedes]

just use an example of a dude with subhuman PFL bro, no this does not constitute a good comparison. I measured his to gandy, gandy had 33mm, which is very much above average.

You lose credibility when you say his PFL is significantly below average (subhuman). His PFL is definitely average and using Gandy (who has very high PFL) to prove Drago’s is average is dishonest.

 

[Warlow]

You lose credibility when you say his PFL is significantly below average (subhuman). His PFL is definitely average and using Gandy (who has very high PFL) to prove Drago’s is average is dishonest.

alright imma gonna measure his just for you, and after that your argument will be fully dismantled. BRB

 

[MisterMercedes]

Also, if I did concede Drago had average PFL (I don’t as you’re yet to use a person with average PFL to compare him to), I would then look at the shape of his zygos.

He does have a wide skull and wide zygos, but his orbital surface is actually narrower and/or lower mass than his Malar and temporal surfaces, which is why his cheekbones curve outward as they go down rather than inward like the guy you used.

So, if he did have average PFL., that would explain it

 

[Warlow]

Also, if I did concede Drago had average PFL (I don’t as you’re yet to use a person with average PFL to compare him to), I would then look at the shape of his zygos.

View attachment 723029
He does have a wide skull and wide zygos, but his orbital surface is actually narrower and/or lower mass than his Malar and temporal surfaces, which is why his cheekbones curve outward as they go down rather than inward like the guy you used.

So, if he did have average PFL., that would explain it

enough you're basically conceding with your last statement.

29mm PFL here. Even this so called average dude mogs drago's eye width. Drago does not have high pfl, therefore wide zygo=high pfl argument has been disproven.

That was your first and most important argument, so case closed.

 

[MisterMercedes]

enough you're basically conceding with your last statement.

View attachment 723033View attachment 723034 29mm PFL here. Even this so called average dude mogs drago's eye width. Drago does not have high pfl, therefore wide zygo=high pfl argument has been disproven.

That was your first and most important argument, so case closed.

So they have about the same PFL (less than a mm of difference is hardly a mog).

I’ll concede Drago has average PFL, but the message you replied to addresses why that is.

 

[Subhuman trash]

It's the eyeball size? It can vary that much? or other factors i don't know?

Genes

 

[Warlow]

Genes

So they have about the same PFL (less than a mm of difference is hardly a mog).

I’ll concede Drago has average PFL, but the message you replied to addresses why that is.

genes dictate pfl, nothing less, nothing more. I'm out

 

[MisterMercedes]

genes dictate pfl, nothing less, nothing more. I'm out

Saying “genes” doesn’t answer the question.

It’d be like someone asking what causes square or masculinized eye sockets and you say “genes”. He is asking for the specific anatomical cause/determinant of PFL.

Also let the record show you didn’t respond to the explanation for why Drago has average PFL.

 

[orthochadic]

My theory is that it comes from your orbicularis occuli length.

Adaptative shortening of the orbicularis occuli fuck the pfl.
People with small eyes may tend to have their eyes not wide open during most of the day causing an adaptative shortening of their orbicularis occuli, as widely opening your eyes stretch the palpebral portion of your orbicularis occuli muscle.

Proof is not related with ipd is that i remember a curry user having really narrow ipd with a decent pfl.

Also some people have their eye outer canthus overactive which make them loose some lateral scleral triangle exposure.

I may be wrong about this theory,
but i'm a hundred per cent sure it has to do with soft tissue rather than eyeball or ipd.

Just pinch your nose at the nasion level and you will see a lot of white sclera showing from your inner eye canthus

 

[Laflame90201]

enough you're basically conceding with your last statement.

View attachment 723033View attachment 723034 29mm PFL here. Even this so called average dude mogs drago's eye width. Drago does not have high pfl, therefore wide zygo=high pfl argument has been disproven.

That was your first and most important argument, so case closed.

Mine are 36mm.I am correct ?

 

[MisterMercedes]

My theory is that it comes from your orbicularis occuli length.

Adaptative shortening of the orbicularis occuli fuck the pfl.
People with small eyes may tend to have their eyes not wide open during most of the day causing an adaptative shortening of their orbicularis occuli, as widely opening your eyes stretch the palpebral portion of your orbicularis occuli muscle.

Proof is not related with ipd is that i remember a curry user having really narrow ipd with a decent pfl.

Also some people have their eye outer canthus overactive which make them loose some lateral scleral triangle exposure.

I may be wrong about this theory,
but i'm a hundred per cent sure it has to do with soft tissue rather than eyeball or ipd.

Just pinch your nose at the nasion level and you will see a lot of white sclera showing from your inner eye canthus

Orbicularis oculi originates from the orbital rims, so, while saying a long orbicularis oculi leads to high PFL is true, it doesn’t get to the cause of that which is wide eye sockets.

 

[orthochadic]

Mine are 36mm.I am correct ?

Slayer

 

[Laflame90201]

@Warlow can u Measure mine ? Thanks

 

[MisterMercedes]

Orbicularis oculi originates from the orbital rims, so, while saying a long orbicularis oculi leads to high PFL is true, it doesn’t get to the cause of that which is wide eye sockets.

In fact, even saying that isn’t true as the muscle forms according to the eyelids which form according to the orbital rims. So the orbicularis oculi length doesn’t determine PFL, it is a symptom of it.

 

[orthochadic]

In fact, even saying that isn’t true as the muscle forms according to the eyelids which form according to the orbital rims. So the orbicularis oculi length doesn’t determine PFL, it is a symptom of it.

But how would the eye socket change that much while eyeball width doesn't vary that much ?
This is the reason why i stopped thinking that and thought about the soft tissues.
Only the transverse diameter significantly varies.
So how would the eyeball socket be wider while the eyeball width is relatively stable in size among humans ? Doesn't make sense does it ?