Why dont afghan cucks stay in Afghanistan

[ThatDjangoWalk]

The problem is that just because it is in the bible doesn't mean that it is a direct commandment, and you also left out the context,if you read the entire chapter you get a different idea.

I read the entire chapter and know the context. God punished in Numbers the Amalakites for sins their forefathers commited 300 years before then, with the context it's even worse.

Man, i look the explanations of direct christian scholars like WLM, James White, etc, i don't take my opinions from anti christian websites

But even then we come to a different problem which is to what degree the OT law applies to christians

Again, we will go back to Matthew, the context of the NT in which according to it Jesus is harsher with his followers in regards to following the law, or the fact that the only verses in which Jesus orders to not follow the law is the story of the prostitute which even christian scholarship agree that it is a fabrication.

It's a long matter.

 

[Deleted member 756]

@goat2x ignore @ThatDjangoWalk since he is an extremist and terrorist supporter

 

[goat2x]

The romans killed the emissary of the muslims, what did you expect, a hug? Of course they have to submit

I just know there are laws in regards to this, maybe later i'll research it

Not true, you have to pick all the scripture. If the neighbouring nation kills the emissary or ambassador, that verse is the procedure, but you can't ignore the rest of the verses and scripture

Allah said (interpretation of the meaning):
Fight in the way of Allah those who fight you but do not transgress. Verily, Allah does not love transgressors.
Surah Al-Baqarah 2: 190

And Allah said (interpretation of the meaning):
Fight them until there is no more persecution and worship is for Allah. But if they cease, then there is to be no aggression except against the oppressors.
Surah Al-Baqarah 2: 193

Other verses and traditions make clear that we Muslims must accept peace offerings from our enemies.

Allah said (interpretation of the meaning):
If the enemy inclines to peace, then incline to it also and rely upon Allah. Verily, it is He who is the Hearing, the Knowing.
Surah Al-Anfal 8: 61

And Allah said also (interpretation of the meaning):
So if they remove themselves from you and do not fight you and offer you peace, then Allah has not made for you a cause for fighting against them.
Surah An-Nisa 4: 90

Ali ibn Abu Talib reported: The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said: Verily, after me there will be conflicts or affairs, so if you are able to end them in peace then do so.
Source: Musnad Ahmad 697, Grade: Sahih

We conclude that verse 9: 29 does not permit aggression against peaceful nations. Rather, it must be read within the context in which it was revealed and in combination with the Quran and authentic traditions as a whole.

That's too big, do you know about Islamic law haha? Is definetly not a small matter, perhaps tomorrow we can PM eachother and i'll do it.

You are wrong man (with all due respect), don't generalize. Isis was more condemned by the scholars than Israel, and that is a big statement to say, Islam is not a monolith in which what one random group says everyone follows it. I seriously doubt that opinion holds a minimal value under Islamic scholarship.

With all the respect you have good knowledge but you lack critical thinking very much

1, this doesnt even address my point at all , which is still if its historically appliable if its in the quran its appliable right now

the law thing is questionable, i dont think there is.

2, i mean we can go back and fourth lol, so what do we conclude that islam contradicts itself?

the things you posted literally just say dont rebel against the subduers who accepted islamic rulership already lmao

Sahih Muslim (19:4294) - There are many places in the hadith where Muhammad tells his followers to demand the jizya of non-believers. Here he lays down the rule that it is to be extorted by force: "If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah's help and fight them"

Sahih Bukhari (53:386) - The command for Muslims to spread Islamic rule by force, subjugating others until they either convert to Islam or pay money, is eternal: Our Prophet, the Messenger of our Lord, has ordered us to fight you till you worship Allah Alone or give Jizya (i.e. tribute); and our Prophet has informed us that our Lord says:-- "Whoever amongst us is killed (i.e. martyred), shall go to Paradise to lead such a luxurious life as he has never seen, and whoever amongst us remain alive, shall become your master." This is being recounted during the reign of Umar, Muhammad's companion and the second caliph, who sent conquering armies into non-Muslim Persian and Christian lands (after Muhammad's death).

Sahih Muslim (1:33) - "I have been commanded to fight against people so long as they do not declare that there is no god but Allah, and he who professed it was guaranteed the protection of his property and life on my behalf except for the right affairs rest with Allah.'s The "protection" needed by the unbeliever is from Muhammad himself. In other words, the jizya is paid by the non-Muslim in exchange for not being killed.

Abu Dawud 3006 - An authentic verse narrating more of the story of Khaybar. Muhammad took what was theirs, including their wives and children. He even had some of the men killed afterwards, once he had found their wealth.

3, i just dont believe your calculations on taxes and understanding on laws honesty.

4, i dont generalize, this is just a well known muslim thing which is readable from the quran so idont even blame them lol

 

[goat2x]

@goat2x ignore @ThatDjangoWalk since he is an extremist and terrorist supporter

he is like sayheyhey its hard to have an arguement w these ppl they live in such a tunnel vision

its sad but its their environment i guess

 

[goat2x]

What is the problem with that? Same with the Bible, what about that verse in numbers? It's the same

Do you think that it is logical for God to reveal the verse of the prohibition of eating pork in the middle of a battle? Of course everything has a context.

Don't make this a Barsa-Madrid, you know that i'm being respectful.

thats a story telling not a law made by the quran


honestly, muhammad changed his opinions about christians, jews during the time of his living hence why you can find contradicting things in them, the quran is just written from muhammads perspective and knowledge hence why you have things like him saying jews worship erza lol


i mean you holding up christianity for an example doesnt validate this claim whatso ever

 

[ThatDjangoWalk]

With all the respect you have good knowledge but you lack critical thinking very much

1, this doesnt even address my point at all , 0ñqa0v0a

which is still if its historically appliable if its in the quran its appliable right now

What did i say to you? Of course it's appliable as long as the context is met, which is that a neighbouring nation kills muslim ambassadors and representatives. Imagine if someone killed a US ambassador, what would happen? Is logical that there will be a response

the law thing is questionable, i dont think there is.

2, i mean we can go back and fourth lol, so what do we conclude that islam contradicts itself?

the things you posted literally just say dont rebel against the subduers who accepted islamic rulership already lmao

Sahih Muslim (19:4294) - There are many places in the hadith where Muhammad tells his followers to demand the jizya of non-believers. Here he lays down the rule that it is to be extorted by force: "If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah's help and fight them"

Yes, of course, Jyzia is a tax, what would happen in your country if you dont pay a tax? They are going to hug you?
The money is to be destined to the next people prescribed in this Qur'anic verse (interpretation of the meaning): 'The Sadaqāt (prescribed alms) are (meant) only to be given to the poor, the needy, to those employed to collect them, to those whose hearts are to be won, in the cause of the slaves and those encumbered with debt, in the way of Allah and to a wayfarer. This is an obligation prescribed by Allah. Allah is All-Knowing, Wise.'

Sahih Bukhari (53:386) - The command for Muslims to spread Islamic rule by force, subjugating others until they either convert to Islam or pay money, is eternal: Our Prophet, the Messenger of our Lord, has ordered us to fight you till you worship Allah Alone or give Jizya (i.e. tribute); and our Prophet has informed us that our Lord says:-- "Whoever amongst us is killed (i.e. martyred), shall go to Paradise to lead such a luxurious life as he has never seen, and whoever amongst us remain alive, shall become your master." This is being recounted during the reign of Umar, Muhammad's companion and the second caliph, who sent conquering armies into non-Muslim Persian and Christian lands (after Muhammad's death).

This sounds third person, but what i said still applies

Sahih Muslim (1:33) - "I have been commanded to fight against people so long as they do not declare that there is no god but Allah, and he who professed it was guaranteed the protection of his property and life on my behalf except for the right affairs rest with Allah.'s The "protection" needed by the unbeliever is from Muhammad himself. In other words, the jizya is paid by the non-Muslim in exchange for not being killed.

Again, taxes, you need to pay them and they are not even high.

And by the way, the hadith you shared has conventional additions and mistraslations to it

Here it is the original
It has been narrated on the authority of Abdullah b. 'Umar that the Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah, and they establish prayer, and pay Zakat and if they do it, their blood and property are guaranteed protection on my behalf except when justified by law, and their affairs rest with Allah.

Abu Dawud 3006 - An authentic verse narrating more of the story of Khaybar. Muhammad took what was theirs, including their wives and children. He even had some of the men killed afterwards, once he had found their wealth.

Yes, they were enslaved, what is the matter? The bible also has slavery, do you want us to compare Islamic and christian slavery?

The concept of slavery in Islam is completely different from that of Judaism, Christianity, the western one and the ones of the rest of the world, including the arab world, which, in the vast majority of cases, are completely immoral.

First, The Prophet warned us that Allah will punish those who enslaved free people on the Day of Resurrection, essentially prohibiting the racial slave trade that was fueled by kidnapping, and only allowing to enslave captives of war after they were defeated, which, on the other hand was the most merciful response since the alternatives were either executing them, exchanging them with the enemy for muslim slaves or letting them go and allow them to counter-attack on the future.
Abu Huraira reported: The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said: 'Allah will oppose a man who sells a free person and consumes the price.'

Second, in Islam it is completely prohibited to beat or hurt a slave by direct orders of the Last Messenger of Allah, Muhammad: Zadhan Abl Umar reported: I came to Ibn 'Umar as he had granted freedom to a slave. He (the narrator further) said: He took hold of a wood or something like it from the earth and said: It (freedom of a slave) has not the reward evert equal to it, but the fact that I heard Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) say: "He who slaps his slave or beats him, the expiation for it is that he should set him free."
This hadith (narration) has been also narrated through another chain of transmitters.

Suwaid ibn Muqarrin reported: Did you not know that it is forbidden to strike the face? I was the seventh of my brothers during the lifetime of the Messenger of Allah, peace and blessing be upon him, and we had only one servant. One of us became enraged and slapped him, so the Messenger of Allah commanded us to set him free.

And Ammar ibn Yasir, may Allah be pleased with him, said: "None of you strikes his slave unjustly except that the slave will be granted retaliation on the Day of Resurrection."

Abu Mas’ud reported: I was beating a boy of mine when I heard a voice from behind me: Know, O Abu Mas’ud, that Allah has more power over you than you have over him. I turned around and it was the Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him. I said, “O Messenger of Allah, I have freed him for the sake of Allah.” The Prophet said: If you had not done so, you would have been burnt in the Hellfire.

Also adding to all of this, Allah in Al Qur'an is constantly encouraging the believers to free slaves (interpretation of the meaning): 'Righteousness is not that you turn your faces toward the east or the west, but [true] righteousness is [in] one who believes in Allah, the Last Day, the angels, the Book, and the prophets and gives wealth, in spite of love for it, to relatives, orphans, the needy, the traveler, those who ask [for help], and for freeing slaves;'

Another verse (interpretation of the meaning): 'And what may let you know what the good way is? Freeing slaves is the good way, or giving food on a day of hunger'

Another verse (interpretation of the meaning): 'Those of you who say such a thing to their wives, then go back on what they have said, must free a slave before the couple may touch one another again––this is what you are commanded to do, and God is fully aware of what you do––'

Another verse (interpretation of the meaning): 'The Sadaqāt (prescribed alms) are (meant) only to be given to the poor, the needy, to those employed to collect them, to those whose hearts are to be won, in the cause of the slaves and those encumbered with debt, in the way of Allah and to a wayfarer. This is an obligation prescribed by Allah. Allah is All-Knowing, Wise.'

And another one (interpretation of the meaning): 'Serve Allah . . . and do good - to parents, kinsfolk, orphans, those in need, neighbors who are near, neighbors who are strangers, the Companion by your side, the way-farer (you meet), and what your right hands possess [i.e. your slaves]'

The Last Prophet of Allah (alayhi a salat wa salam) ordered good treatment and kindness to the believers in regards to their servants: Ma’rur ibn Suwaid reported: The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said: "Your slaves are your brothers. Allah has placed them in your hand, and he who has his brother under him should feed him with the same food he eats and clothe him with the same clothes he wears, and do not burden him beyond his capacity, and if you burden him then help him."

The Messenger of Allah said something similar according to other narration: "Feed them from the same food you eat and clothe them from the same clothes you wear, and do not torture the creation of Allah the Exalted."

Abu Musa Al-Ashari reported: The Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, said: "Feed the hungry, visit the sick, and set the captives free."

A man who served for the Last Prophet of Allah said: "I served the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, for ten years. By Allah, he never even said a mild rebuke to me and he never said harshly for anything: Why did you do that? Why did you not do that?"

Also, in Islam, the slave not only has tremendous rights which definetly surpass those of any other culture and is bound to be freed, he also has the God given right to buy his freedom, The One and Only Creator has clearly ordered to the one who has slaves in Al Qur'an (interpretation of the meaning): 'And if any of your slaves ask for a deed in writing (to enable them to earn their freedom for a certain sum), give them such a deed if you know any good in them; yes, give them something yourselves out of the means which Allah has given to you.'


The Bible permits the beating of slaves in many verses, like for example this one in Exodus 21: 20-21
“When a man strikes his slave, male or female, with a rod and the slave dies under his hand, he shall be avenged. But if the slave survives a day or two, he is not to be avenged, for the slave is his money.

This is also to be found in the New Testament, Luke 12: 47-48
"And that servant who knew his master's will but did not get ready or act according to his will, will receive a severe beating. But the one who did not know, and did what deserved a beating, will receive a light beating. Everyone to whom much was given, of him much will be required, and from him to whom they entrusted much, they will demand the more."

Same with the selling of slaves according to Exodus 21: 7
“When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she shall not go out as the male slaves do.

Leviticus 25: 44
"As for your male and female slaves whom you may have: you may buy male and female slaves from among the nations that are around you. Moreover you may buy the children of the strangers who dwell among you, and their families who are with you, which they beget in your land; and they shall become your property."

There is also the famous verse of
Numbers 31: 17-18 which orders the slavery and rape of the female children of the Amalakites:
"Now kill all of the boys of the males and kill every woman who has known sexual relations of males. And every female child of women that has not known sexual relations of males save for yourselves."

Leviticus 19: 20
“If a man lies sexually with a woman who is a slave, assigned to another man and not yet ransomed or given her freedom, a distinction shall be made. They shall not be put to death, because she was not free;"

The authors of the Bible for some reason put special emphasis in the obedience the slave must have towards his master and the rights of the master over the slave, while it barely speaks about the rights of the slave.

Peter 2: 18
"Servants, be subject to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the unjust."

Titus 2: 9-10
"Slaves are to be submissive to their own masters in everything; they are to be well-pleasing, not argumentative, not pilfering, but showing all good faith, so that in everything they may adorn the doctrine of God our Savior."

Colossians 3: 22-24
"Slaves, obey in everything those who are your earthly masters, not by way of eye-service, as people-pleasers, but with sincerity of heart, fearing the Lord."

We could go on all day with these kind of verses.

There are weak recent christian allegations that the Bible was somehow at the end of the book promoting slowly the abolishment of slavery, claims which are easily disproven since it is a position that almost no christian scholars held before the 18-19th century.

Let us analyze for example this verse in Galatians 5: 1
"It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery."

First and foremost these are words of Paul, not of Jesus, therefore their reliability is that of a potatoe since Paul was a man admonished and condemned by the own companions of Jesus, and also Paul himself gave orders to slaves in many verses on his writings. Second, this verse in complete context is referring as "slavery" to the laws of the Jews since supposedly, Paul was addressing some people and a group of Jews came and told them that they need to be circumcised, the next verse (Galatians 5: 2) says: "Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all."

3, i just dont believe your calculations on taxes and understanding on laws honesty.

Didn't ask you to do so, you are starting to become emotional

4, i dont generalize, this is just a well known muslim thing which is readable from the quran so idont even blame them lol

Man, you didn't even read the Bible and all you know from the Qur'an is clearly from anti islamic sources and both of us know it

 

[ThatDjangoWalk]

thats a story telling not a law made by the quran

honestly, muhammad changed his opinions about christians, jews during the time of his living hence why you can find contradicting things in them, the quran is just written from muhammads perspective and knowledge hence why you have things like him saying jews worship erza lol

Not true. I don't understand you, are you saying that the New Testament was addressing the people of Jesus (alayhi a salam) with 21st century language or something? Of course it was with his context and language, same with Deutoronomy and Moses (alayhi a salam)

About jews worshipping ezra, the yemeni jews (which were a very important community of jews in the past and had a big lineage and history) didn't even call their sons Ezra because they hold it as a sanctified name.

i mean you holding up christianity for an example doesnt validate this claim whatso ever

I'm just using your bar and criteria to see if you are consistent, you criticize things that can easily go back to your worldview which is the biblical teachings.

 

[goat2x]

What did i say to you? Of course it's appliable as long as the context is met, which is that a neighbouring nation kills muslim ambassadors and representatives. Imagine if someone killed a US ambassador, what would happen? Is logical that there will be a response

Yes, of course, Jyzia is a tax, what would happen in your country if you dont pay a tax? They are going to hug you?
The money is to be destined to the next people prescribed in this Qur'anic verse (interpretation of the meaning): 'The Sadaqāt (prescribed alms) are (meant) only to be given to the poor, the needy, to those employed to collect them, to those whose hearts are to be won, in the cause of the slaves and those encumbered with debt, in the way of Allah and to a wayfarer. This is an obligation prescribed by Allah. Allah is All-Knowing, Wise.'


This sounds third person, but what i said still applies

Again, taxes, you need to pay them and they are not even high.

And by the way, the hadith you shared has conventional additions and mistraslations to it

Here it is the original
It has been narrated on the authority of Abdullah b. 'Umar that the Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah, and they establish prayer, and pay Zakat and if they do it, their blood and property are guaranteed protection on my behalf except when justified by law, and their affairs rest with Allah.

Yes, they were enslaved, what is the matter? The bible also has slavery, do you want us to compare Islamic and christian slavery?

The concept of slavery in Islam is completely different from that of Judaism, Christianity, the western one and the ones of the rest of the world, including the arab world, which, in the vast majority of cases, are completely immoral.

First, The Prophet warned us that Allah will punish those who enslaved free people on the Day of Resurrection, essentially prohibiting the racial slave trade that was fueled by kidnapping, and only allowing to enslave captives of war after they were defeated, which, on the other hand was the most merciful response since the alternatives were either executing them, exchanging them with the enemy for muslim slaves or letting them go and allow them to counter-attack on the future.
Abu Huraira reported: The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said: 'Allah will oppose a man who sells a free person and consumes the price.'

Second, in Islam it is completely prohibited to beat or hurt a slave by direct orders of the Last Messenger of Allah, Muhammad: Zadhan Abl Umar reported: I came to Ibn 'Umar as he had granted freedom to a slave. He (the narrator further) said: He took hold of a wood or something like it from the earth and said: It (freedom of a slave) has not the reward evert equal to it, but the fact that I heard Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) say: "He who slaps his slave or beats him, the expiation for it is that he should set him free."
This hadith (narration) has been also narrated through another chain of transmitters.

Suwaid ibn Muqarrin reported: Did you not know that it is forbidden to strike the face? I was the seventh of my brothers during the lifetime of the Messenger of Allah, peace and blessing be upon him, and we had only one servant. One of us became enraged and slapped him, so the Messenger of Allah commanded us to set him free.

And Ammar ibn Yasir, may Allah be pleased with him, said: "None of you strikes his slave unjustly except that the slave will be granted retaliation on the Day of Resurrection."

Abu Mas’ud reported: I was beating a boy of mine when I heard a voice from behind me: Know, O Abu Mas’ud, that Allah has more power over you than you have over him. I turned around and it was the Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him. I said, “O Messenger of Allah, I have freed him for the sake of Allah.” The Prophet said: If you had not done so, you would have been burnt in the Hellfire.

Also adding to all of this, Allah in Al Qur'an is constantly encouraging the believers to free slaves (interpretation of the meaning): 'Righteousness is not that you turn your faces toward the east or the west, but [true] righteousness is [in] one who believes in Allah, the Last Day, the angels, the Book, and the prophets and gives wealth, in spite of love for it, to relatives, orphans, the needy, the traveler, those who ask [for help], and for freeing slaves;'

Another verse (interpretation of the meaning): 'And what may let you know what the good way is? Freeing slaves is the good way, or giving food on a day of hunger'

Another verse (interpretation of the meaning): 'Those of you who say such a thing to their wives, then go back on what they have said, must free a slave before the couple may touch one another again––this is what you are commanded to do, and God is fully aware of what you do––'

Another verse (interpretation of the meaning): 'The Sadaqāt (prescribed alms) are (meant) only to be given to the poor, the needy, to those employed to collect them, to those whose hearts are to be won, in the cause of the slaves and those encumbered with debt, in the way of Allah and to a wayfarer. This is an obligation prescribed by Allah. Allah is All-Knowing, Wise.'

And another one (interpretation of the meaning): 'Serve Allah . . . and do good - to parents, kinsfolk, orphans, those in need, neighbors who are near, neighbors who are strangers, the Companion by your side, the way-farer (you meet), and what your right hands possess [i.e. your slaves]'

The Last Prophet of Allah (alayhi a salat wa salam) ordered good treatment and kindness to the believers in regards to their servants: Ma’rur ibn Suwaid reported: The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said: "Your slaves are your brothers. Allah has placed them in your hand, and he who has his brother under him should feed him with the same food he eats and clothe him with the same clothes he wears, and do not burden him beyond his capacity, and if you burden him then help him."

The Messenger of Allah said something similar according to other narration: "Feed them from the same food you eat and clothe them from the same clothes you wear, and do not torture the creation of Allah the Exalted."

Abu Musa Al-Ashari reported: The Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, said: "Feed the hungry, visit the sick, and set the captives free."

A man who served for the Last Prophet of Allah said: "I served the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, for ten years. By Allah, he never even said a mild rebuke to me and he never said harshly for anything: Why did you do that? Why did you not do that?"

Also, in Islam, the slave not only has tremendous rights which definetly surpass those of any other culture and is bound to be freed, he also has the God given right to buy his freedom, The One and Only Creator has clearly ordered to the one who has slaves in Al Qur'an (interpretation of the meaning): 'And if any of your slaves ask for a deed in writing (to enable them to earn their freedom for a certain sum), give them such a deed if you know any good in them; yes, give them something yourselves out of the means which Allah has given to you.'


The Bible permits the beating of slaves in many verses, like for example this one in Exodus 21: 20-21
“When a man strikes his slave, male or female, with a rod and the slave dies under his hand, he shall be avenged. But if the slave survives a day or two, he is not to be avenged, for the slave is his money.

This is also to be found in the New Testament, Luke 12: 47-48
"And that servant who knew his master's will but did not get ready or act according to his will, will receive a severe beating. But the one who did not know, and did what deserved a beating, will receive a light beating. Everyone to whom much was given, of him much will be required, and from him to whom they entrusted much, they will demand the more."

Same with the selling of slaves according to Exodus 21: 7
“When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she shall not go out as the male slaves do.

Leviticus 25: 44
"As for your male and female slaves whom you may have: you may buy male and female slaves from among the nations that are around you. Moreover you may buy the children of the strangers who dwell among you, and their families who are with you, which they beget in your land; and they shall become your property."

There is also the famous verse of
Numbers 31: 17-18 which orders the slavery and rape of the female children of the Amalakites:
"Now kill all of the boys of the males and kill every woman who has known sexual relations of males. And every female child of women that has not known sexual relations of males save for yourselves."

Leviticus 19: 20
“If a man lies sexually with a woman who is a slave, assigned to another man and not yet ransomed or given her freedom, a distinction shall be made. They shall not be put to death, because she was not free;"

The authors of the Bible for some reason put special emphasis in the obedience the slave must have towards his master and the rights of the master over the slave, while it barely speaks about the rights of the slave.

Peter 2: 18
"Servants, be subject to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the unjust."

Titus 2: 9-10
"Slaves are to be submissive to their own masters in everything; they are to be well-pleasing, not argumentative, not pilfering, but showing all good faith, so that in everything they may adorn the doctrine of God our Savior."

Colossians 3: 22-24
"Slaves, obey in everything those who are your earthly masters, not by way of eye-service, as people-pleasers, but with sincerity of heart, fearing the Lord."

We could go on all day with these kind of verses.

There are weak recent christian allegations that the Bible was somehow at the end of the book promoting slowly the abolishment of slavery, claims which are easily disproven since it is a position that almost no christian scholars held before the 18-19th century.

Let us analyze for example this verse in Galatians 5: 1
"It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery."

First and foremost these are words of Paul, not of Jesus, therefore their reliability is that of a potatoe since Paul was a man admonished and condemned by the own companions of Jesus, and also Paul himself gave orders to slaves in many verses on his writings. Second, this verse in complete context is referring as "slavery" to the laws of the Jews since supposedly, Paul was addressing some people and a group of Jews came and told them that they need to be circumcised, the next verse (Galatians 5: 2) says: "Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all."


Didn't ask you to do so, you are starting to become emotional

Man, you didn't even read the Bible and all you know from the Qur'an is clearly from anti islamic sources and both of us know it

1, like what response are u even talking about

these are just regular scriptures about the jizyah that non muslim ppl have to pay to feel subdued, and in submission regardless , this isnt just a tax

(this is followed in many scriptures i can send more)

"Allah said, (until they pay the Jizyah), if they do not choose to embrace Islam, (with willing submission), in defeat and subservience, (and feel themselves subdued.), disgraced, humiliated and belittled. Therefore, Muslims are not allowed to honor the people of Dhimmah or elevate them above Muslims, for they are miserable, disgraced and humiliated. Muslim recorded from Abu Hurayrah that the Prophet said, "Do not initiate the Salam to the Jews and Christians, and if you meet any of them in a road, force them to its narrowest alley." This is why the Leader of the faithful `Umar bin Al-Khattab, may Allah be pleased with him, demanded his well-known conditions be met by the Christians, these conditions that ensured their continued humiliation, degradation and disgrace."

the thing is jizyah is a tax only related to non muslim ppl to get them feel ashamed, this isnt like a regular country tax lmfao

what applies you havent explained anything lmfao

its not about the slavery all doe what you just copy pasted is full out of context random verses(talking about me being biased huh?) so i wont even address them
i could literally copy paste hundreds of quran verses, but i dont like my screen popping out of non thoughts but only by half relevant taken out of context things keep it more on the thought side

its about the jizyah,


3, lol its not my emotion, its just i know you have a lack of understanding lmfao


4, i did read the bible more of the quran

you are the exact opposite as me doe so why even cry, we cant change eachothers opinion either way

 

[goat2x]

Not true. I don't understand you, are you saying that the New Testament was addressing the people of Jesus (alayhi a salam) with 21st century language or something? Of course it was with his context and language, same with Deutoronomy and Moses (alayhi a salam)

About jews worshipping ezra, the yemeni jews (which were a very important community of jews in the past and had a big lineage and history) didn't even call their sons Ezra because they hold it as a sanctified name.

I'm just using your bar and criteria to see if you are consistent, you criticize things that can easily go back to your worldview which is the biblical teachings.

i dont understand what your trying to say lol, is it even a reply to my comments i dont think so

yemeni jews were never the most important, the most populated jews ever. this statement is false.

thats not what u do, you r trying to uphold the quran to the bible, for scripture legitemacy its always better to argue them for their own not against other, thats what i do aswell. qoute me doing it otherwise

 

[volcelfatcel]

where's sayheyhey when you need him
still can't get over my favorite turk deleting account no more essays orospu

 

[goat2x]

where's sayheyhey when you need him
still can't get over my favorite turk deleting account no more essays orospu

there is a replacement unfortunately, and i have work tomorrow fucknighell.

 

[volcelfatcel]

there is a replacement unfortunately, and i have work tomorrow fucknighell.

gotta analyze each essay my nigga

 

[goat2x]

gotta analyze each essay my nigga

the thing is most of these ppl who got brought up in these extremist environment is that they have no critical thinking skills at all

its not fun or a good time reading their shit its like tunnel vision islam extremist views

 

[ThatDjangoWalk]

1, like what response are u even talking about

these are just regular scriptures about the jizyah that non muslim ppl have to pay to feel subdued, and in submission regardless , this isnt just a tax

Yes it is a tax, and muslims have to pay much more. If you are a christian and convert to Islam you have to pay more, don't you understand? And the tax is based on religion, not on nationality, so it goes for christians and jews and not french and italians.

(this is followed in many scriptures i can send more)

"Allah said, (until they pay the Jizyah), if they do not choose to embrace Islam, (with willing submission), in defeat and subservience, (and feel themselves subdued.), disgraced, humiliated and belittled. Therefore, Muslims are not allowed to honor the people of Dhimmah or elevate them above Muslims, for they are miserable, disgraced and humiliated.

This is not a verse in the Qur'an, again you are choosing a random tafsir (exegesis) of some random scholar and put it like if it is the standard opinion. You can do that with any religion, dumb behaviour.

Muslim recorded from Abu Hurayrah that the Prophet said, "Do not initiate the Salam to the Jews and Christians, and if you meet any of them in a road, force them to its narrowest alley." This is why the Leader of the faithful `Umar bin Al-Khattab, may Allah be pleased with him, demanded his well-known conditions be met by the Christians, these conditions that ensured their continued humiliation, degradation and disgrace."

This was in the context before a battle if i'm not wrong, that's all. Again, i could show you tens of hadiths saying the cintrary and outside of this context

the thing is jizyah is a tax only related to non muslim ppl to get them feel ashamed, this isnt like a regular country tax lmfao

No, is because they are non muslim living in muslim land and of course they are not going to live free while muslims pay a tax. If they pay jyzia they are granted protection by the muslim army, they don't have to do military service.

And what's best is that only adult men have to pay it, not women or children. While zakat is for every muslim except children

what applies you havent explained anything lmfao

its not about the slavery all doe what you just copy pasted is full out of context random verses(talking about me being biased huh?) so i wont even address them
i could literally copy paste hundreds of quran verses, but i dont like my screen popping out of non thoughts but only by half relevant taken out of context things keep it more on the thought side

No, i made myself those texts some time ago. It's impossible for you to defend them because i know anyways the christian scholarly position.

Why do yoy use things out of context with us?

its about the jizyah,


3, lol its not my emotion, its just i know you have a lack of understanding lmfao

Yes it is, we started peacefully and suddenly you jumped "Muh muh, muslims this"

4, i did read the bible more of the quran

I just don't believe you.

you are the exact opposite as me doe so why even cry, we cant change eachothers opinion either wa

We can't because you started attacking man instead of just addressing one point, you started shootingg blind because you feelt somehow bad or threathened or whatever.

 

[ThatDjangoWalk]

i dont understand what your trying to say lol, is it even a reply to my comments i dont think so

yemeni jews were never the most important, the most populated jews ever. this statement is false.

Where did i say they were the most important? They were just an important community of jews, that's all. And even jewish scholars will tell you that and about Ezra, check out the famous debater Rabbi Tovia Singer

thats not what u do, you r trying to uphold the quran to the bible, for scripture legitemacy its always better to argue them for their own not against other, thats what i do aswell. qoute me doing it otherwise

This is getting chilldish

As i said, this is not a Barsa-Madrid, stop attacking for the sake of having the last word or winning, be more intelligent than that.

 

[goat2x]

Yes it is a tax, and muslims have to pay much more. If you are a christian and convert to Islam you have to pay more, don't you understand? And the tax is based on religion, not on nationality, so it goes for christians and jews and not french and italians.

This is not a verse in the Qur'an, again you are choosing a random tafsir (exegesis) of some random scholar and put it like if it is the standard opinion. You can do that with any religion, dumb behaviour.

This was in the context before a battle if i'm not wrong, that's all. Again, i could show you tens of hadiths saying the cintrary and outside of this context

No, is because they are non muslim living in muslim land and of course they are not going to live free while muslims pay a tax. If they pay jyzia they are granted protection by the muslim army, they don't have to do military service.

And what's best is that only adult men have to pay it, not women or children. While zakat is for every muslim except children

No, i made myself those texts some time ago. It's impossible for you to defend them because i know anyways the christian scholarly position.

Why do yoy use things out of context with us?

Yes it is, we started peacefully and suddenly you jumped "Muh muh, muslims this"

I just don't believe you.

We can't because you started attacking man instead of just addressing one point, you started shootingg blind because you feelt somehow bad or threathened or whatever.

1, so the subdue tax is less than muslim taxes? ive never heard of this lol, in all of europe where they conquered non muslim countries the christians had to pay more taxes, send me the scripture cuz i tried to look but i cant find,

2, thats just an extension of what the quran says, not cherry picked
you are wrong,

also the jizyah is a sign of submission as explained by texts already lol i literally sent proof already

but i guess you can just watch this debate conclude yourself

its not a regular tax, its a submission tax




3, see man, you are a joke, you say i attack u or whatever but you self admittedly debate from anger

what u just did there is called a straw man fallacy, in any respectable audience you would have lost that part doesnt matter if you could explain christian slavery to be bad or whatever (you wont btw i doubt it)

4, what are u even talking about? again you say im emotional this and emotional that but you are acting like a little bitch lmfao

all my commnets were pure hearted , its just based off reality but now you kinda got me enraged,
you are a weak hearted little pussy.

 

[goat2x]

Where did i say they were the most important? They were just an important community of jews, that's all. And even jewish scholars will tell you that and about Ezra, check out the famous debater Rabbi Tovia Singer

This is getting chilldish

As i said, this is not a Barsa-Madrid, stop attacking for the sake of having the last word or winning, be more intelligent than that.

most jews , majority of jews didnt believe in ezra, it was just a small sect, mentioning that jews believed in her is incorrect.

i mean you are throwing ad hominem and self admittedly cherry picking w wrong intentions but im the one doing the last word thing, sure

you sound like a narcissistic bitch.

 

[volcelfatcel]

fucking sayheyhey has a replacement already

 

[ThatDjangoWalk]

1, so the subdue tax is less than muslim taxes? ive never heard of this lol, in all of europe where they conquered non muslim countries the christians had to pay more taxes, send me the scripture cuz i tried to look but i cant find,

So what if some muslim ruler did that? He was going against the law and as i said, the non muslims has the right to complain in a muslim court, and this is the standard scholarly opinion. Oppression happens from every side, not only muslim side, check out your sources of information because they are clearly anti islamic.

And by the way i find one of those texts you shared, it was tafsir Ibn Kathir, you see, all those people have is some random opinion and they try to desperately standarize it and say "THIS IS ISLAM!"

2, thats just an extension of what the quran says, not cherry picked
you are wrong,

It is an extension, therefore it's not the Qur'an and completely cherrypicked. Again you fall in the same, you pick some random opinion which fits you among thousands and thousands and say "This is islam!". I could do the exact same with christianity

also the jizyah is a sign of submission as explained by texts already lol i literally sent proof already

The jyziah is a tax of non muslims, and muslims have the rax of zakar which is another tax of submission and one of the 5 pillars of islam, and which is much higher.

but i guess you can just watch this debate conclude yourself

I watch all those debates, you should watch them entirely, the two hours of debate. Not some random 5 minutes.

its not a regular tax, its a submission tax




3, see man, you are a joke, you say i attack u or whatever but you self admittedly debate from anger

When i said that? You are the one who is ckearly getting emotional

what u just did there is called a straw man fallacy, in any respectable audience you would have lost that part doesnt matter if you could explain christian slavery to be bad or whatever (you wont btw i doubt it)

You didn't answer a single objection to christianity, all you said was "Muh muj, out of context" even tho scholarly opinion would noy agree with you.

4, what are u even talking about? again you say im emotional this and emotional that but you are acting like a little bitch lmfao

all my commnets were pure hearted

Pure heartedly attacking Islam with a comoletely different criteria when you speak about your religion.

, its just based off reality but now you kinda got me enraged,
you are a weak hearted little pussy.

Why are you describing yourself while speaking about me? Be more mature

Now since i answer everything, i want you also to answer me these verses from the Bible

Samuel 15: 3
'Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.'

Why kill everything, including animals, children?

Psalms 137: 9
Happy shall He be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.

Why is happy the one who dashes babylonian children?

Deuteronomy 21: 18-21
If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place;

And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die:

Do you see this ruling as just?

 

[goat2x]

So what if some muslim ruler did that? He was going against the law and as i said, the non muslims has the right to complain in a muslim court, and this is the standard scholarly opinion. Oppression happens from every side, not only muslim side, check out your sources of information because they are clearly anti islamic.

And by the way i find one of those texts you shared, it was tafsir Ibn Kathir, you see, all those people have is some random opinion and they try to desperately standarize it and say "THIS IS ISLAM!"

It is an extension, therefore it's not the Qur'an and completely cherrypicked. Again you fall in the same, you pick some random opinion which fits you among thousands and thousands and say "This is islam!". I could do the exact same with christianity

The jyziah is a tax of non muslims, and muslims have the rax of zakar which is another tax of submission and one of the 5 pillars of islam, and which is much higher.

I watch all those debates, you should watch them entirely, the two hours of debate. Not some random 5 minutes.

When i said that? You are the one who is ckearly getting emotional

You didn't answer a single objection to christianity, all you said was "Muh muj, out of context" even tho scholarly opinion would noy agree with you.

Pure heartedly attacking Islam with a comoletely different criteria when you speak about your religion.

Why are you describing yourself while speaking about me? Be more mature

Now since i answer everything, i want you also to answer me these verses from the Bible

Samuel 15: 3
'Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.'

Why kill everything, including animals, children?

Psalms 137: 9
Happy shall He be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.

Why is happy the one who dashes babylonian children?

Deuteronomy 21: 18-21
If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place;

And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die:

Do you see this ruling as just?

1, send me the text of it i said hundreds of time, the subdue tax is less than the tax for muslims in total? impossible,

the ottoman empire for example.

2, this is just another wording for the quran its literally says the same thing, its not cherry picked whatso ever.

3, see this is why you are a pussy you literally qoute thngs like a bible which says sex slave which isnt even true but when i qoute sum wording of the quran you become a high estrogenic faggot.
it was a COMPLETE mistranslation.

mane just shut up with your hypocrosy

4, i didnt even attack islam i said legit critizism you just got your dick wet cuz i said what sum jihadist qouted, be less emotional is my advice to you like legit

5, you dont answer to anything, even in your latest reply you just put out strawmans saying im emotional which is basically just a mirror of yourself

these qoutes


i watch entirely these debates, there is no way you think the other guy won lol,
i mean he has the same arguements as yourself

i could literally mention any other things like how muhammad said that the falling stars which arent even falling stars are sent by allah to fight demons
but see? i wont, you know why? because its irrelevant and a strawman, you are a joke, your only knowledge and debate experience comes from online rotting hence why you dont get these things, i have work tomorrow this is my last reply, honestly youshould do a deep self evualating

 

[ThatDjangoWalk]

1, send me the text of it i said hundreds of time, the subdue tax is less than the tax for muslims in total? impossible,

the ottoman empire for example.

There isn't a verse or hadith which speaks about the exact zakat and jyziah amount, we just base it on calculations of what the predecessors did.

The Hanafi position is that the magnitude varies with the level of wealth of the Dhimmi. For the rich it is 48 dirhams (silver coins) yearly, for the middle classes 24 dirhams and for the poor [who are able to pay] 12 dirhams.

The Maliki position is that the Jizyah is 4 dinars (gold coins) yearly for the people who have gold and 40 dirhams for those who have silver.

The other two positions are the Shafi’i who hold that the minimum amount of Jizyah is one pure gold dinar annually and it is upon the discretion of the Imam (Muslim leader) to exact more if he sees fit and the Hanbali who say that it’s wholly upon the discretion of the Imam and he can lower & raise it as he sees fit depending on the ability of the Ahl al Dhimmah to pay

The standard opinion of prices as far as i know is the one i shared with you.

2, this is just another wording for the quran its literally says the same thing, its not cherry picked whatso ever.

No, false. It is a random person adding parenthesis and his own opinion, and someone is using it and trying to sell it as if it was the standard opinion. You know it and i know it

3, see this is why you are a pussy you literally qoute thngs like a bible which says sex slave which isnt even true but when i qoute sum wording of the quran you become a high estrogenic faggot.
it was a COMPLETE mistranslation.

You didn't respond again, mistranslation? Not even a decent jewish or christian scholar would agree, but i guess you got to hide in some sort of argument

mane just shut up with your hypocrosy

Ridiculous coming from you

4, i didnt even attack islam i said legit critizism you just got your dick wet cuz i said what sum jihadist qouted, be less emotional is my advice to you like legit

No, you did attack Islam, you started saying "Muh muh, the Qur'an said things in the context of Muhammad" like trying to provoke something. It seems to me you just some sort of inferiority complex and can't finish an argument without having the last word.

5, you dont answer to anything, even in your latest reply you just put out strawmans saying im emotional which is basically just a mirror of yourself

I answered and never strawmanned, meanwhile you can't even dare to answer specifically a single verse of those of slavery and the rest, it has got embarassing.

these qoutes


i watch entirely these debates, there is no way you think the other guy won lol,
i mean he has the same arguements as yourself

I don't believe that you watch any debate, if you did you wouldn't have dare to bring tafsir opinions like if they were Islamic standard opinions, and you would know the biblical position of slavery, etc, you don't have any credinility at this point.

i could literally mention any other things like how muhammad said that the falling stars which arent even falling stars are sent by allah to fight demons

The verse uses the word Nujum (nowadays this word is more used for stars, that's why people think it is stars) which was in 7th century Arabia any celestial body, which when jinn try to access the first paradise (we don't know how is this process, physical or metaphysical, etc) one of those nujum are target the metaphysical entities of the jinn.

I could also have used other matters, and i mean hundreds of contents.

What about this one?
One verse says that plants and vegetation have appeared before the third day, later on it says that they didn't appear up until after the seventh day.

Genesis 1: 12-13
"The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day."

Genesis 2: 5
"Now no shrub had yet appeared on the earth and no plant had yet sprung up, for the LORD God had not sent rain on the earth and there was no one to work the ground"

but see? i wont, you know why? because its irrelevant and a strawman, you are a joke, your only knowledge and debate experience comes from online rotting hence why you dont get these things, i have work tomorrow this is my last reply, honestly youshould do a deep self evualating

I personally believe that you use emoticons in this kind of debate because you feel insecure.

 

[goat2x]

There isn't a verse or hadith which speaks about the exact zakat and jyziah amount, we just base it on calculations of what the predecessors did.

The Hanafi position is that the magnitude varies with the level of wealth of the Dhimmi. For the rich it is 48 dirhams (silver coins) yearly, for the middle classes 24 dirhams and for the poor [who are able to pay] 12 dirhams.

The Maliki position is that the Jizyah is 4 dinars (gold coins) yearly for the people who have gold and 40 dirhams for those who have silver.

The other two positions are the Shafi’i who hold that the minimum amount of Jizyah is one pure gold dinar annually and it is upon the discretion of the Imam (Muslim leader) to exact more if he sees fit and the Hanbali who say that it’s wholly upon the discretion of the Imam and he can lower & raise it as he sees fit depending on the ability of the Ahl al Dhimmah to pay

The standard opinion of prices as far as i know is the one i shared with you.

No, false. It is a random person adding parenthesis and his own opinion, and someone is using it and trying to sell it as if it was the standard opinion. You know it and i know it

You didn't respond again, mistranslation? Not even a decent jewish or christian scholar would agree, but i guess you got to hide in some sort of argument

Ridiculous coming from you

No, you did attack Islam, you started saying "Muh muh, the Qur'an said things in the context of Muhammad" like trying to provoke something. It seems to me you just some sort of inferiority complex and can't finish an argument without having the last word.

I answered and never strawmanned, meanwhile you can't even dare to answer specifically a single verse of those of slavery and the rest, it has got embarassing.

I don't believe that you watch any debate, if you did you wouldn't have dare to bring tafsir opinions like if they were Islamic standard opinions, and you would know the biblical position of slavery, etc, you don't have any credinility at this point.

The verse uses the word Nujum (nowadays this word is more used for stars, that's why people think it is stars) which was in 7th century Arabia any celestial body, which when jinn try to access the first paradise (we don't know how is this process, physical or metaphysical, etc) one of those nujum are target the metaphysical entities of the jinn.

I could also have used other matters, and i mean hundreds of contents.

What about this one?
One verse says that plants and vegetation have appeared before the third day, later on it says that they didn't appear up until after the seventh day.

Genesis 1: 12-13
"The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day."

Genesis 2: 5
"Now no shrub had yet appeared on the earth and no plant had yet sprung up, for the LORD God had not sent rain on the earth and there was no one to work the ground"


I personally believe that you use emoticons in this kind of debate because you feel insecure.

1, complete joke, so the ottoman empire wasnt completely off from scripture just like u said huh? what quranic elements the jizyah have? tell me numbers as U stated, where is the scripture that you have to base off it on anything? u told me its less than muslim tax

2-3, its the same as the christian ones, the original text din use sex slave or little girls at all yet you used it so whats your point? its bad when i do it not bad when u do it?

4, ok-ok fine, i havent remembered then, but atleast mine was contexually chained together like it wasnt a random insult.

5, complete self make opinion that doesnt even make any sense, you tryna create fud doesnt mean anything lmao, i must have hit the spots i guess.

6, see this is where you admit your loss, you mention random things that has no relevancy to the debate whatso ever, you act emotional, you use personal insults and ad hominem (i didnt use them first) these speaks volumes and in any platform you would have lost already

so we dont know what happens so allah could send them lol, thats like saying ok my dog is doing backflips in 4th dimension disprove it, also where is your source on that arabic text thing?

its funny how you think im scared or cant reply to your verses whatso ever but im doing it delebetary to show anyone and you how ridicolous you are, you cant defend your points so you just bring up others and expect anything to be answered
its honestly pathetic that you would even think that, just imagine this on a live platform we talk about the taxes and you mention sex slavery out of nowhere just pathetic.

i have no insecurity but you showed great amount of projection in these texts
i think we should just end it here

 

[goat2x]

There isn't a verse or hadith which speaks about the exact zakat and jyziah amount, we just base it on calculations of what the predecessors did.

The Hanafi position is that the magnitude varies with the level of wealth of the Dhimmi. For the rich it is 48 dirhams (silver coins) yearly, for the middle classes 24 dirhams and for the poor [who are able to pay] 12 dirhams.

The Maliki position is that the Jizyah is 4 dinars (gold coins) yearly for the people who have gold and 40 dirhams for those who have silver.

The other two positions are the Shafi’i who hold that the minimum amount of Jizyah is one pure gold dinar annually and it is upon the discretion of the Imam (Muslim leader) to exact more if he sees fit and the Hanbali who say that it’s wholly upon the discretion of the Imam and he can lower & raise it as he sees fit depending on the ability of the Ahl al Dhimmah to pay

The standard opinion of prices as far as i know is the one i shared with you.

No, false. It is a random person adding parenthesis and his own opinion, and someone is using it and trying to sell it as if it was the standard opinion. You know it and i know it

You didn't respond again, mistranslation? Not even a decent jewish or christian scholar would agree, but i guess you got to hide in some sort of argument

Ridiculous coming from you

No, you did attack Islam, you started saying "Muh muh, the Qur'an said things in the context of Muhammad" like trying to provoke something. It seems to me you just some sort of inferiority complex and can't finish an argument without having the last word.

I answered and never strawmanned, meanwhile you can't even dare to answer specifically a single verse of those of slavery and the rest, it has got embarassing.

I don't believe that you watch any debate, if you did you wouldn't have dare to bring tafsir opinions like if they were Islamic standard opinions, and you would know the biblical position of slavery, etc, you don't have any credinility at this point.

The verse uses the word Nujum (nowadays this word is more used for stars, that's why people think it is stars) which was in 7th century Arabia any celestial body, which when jinn try to access the first paradise (we don't know how is this process, physical or metaphysical, etc) one of those nujum are target the metaphysical entities of the jinn.

I could also have used other matters, and i mean hundreds of contents.

What about this one?
One verse says that plants and vegetation have appeared before the third day, later on it says that they didn't appear up until after the seventh day.

Genesis 1: 12-13
"The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day."

Genesis 2: 5
"Now no shrub had yet appeared on the earth and no plant had yet sprung up, for the LORD God had not sent rain on the earth and there was no one to work the ground"


I personally believe that you use emoticons in this kind of debate because you feel insecure.

end of the day its over,

your points are in shambles,

your less tax according to scripture was wrong, your muh its not a subdue tax was wrong what else even is left?
oh but look at this random text

maybe one time i will destroy your opinion on the fellow matters too

 

[ThatDjangoWalk]

1, complete joke, so the ottoman empire wasnt completely off from scripture just like u said huh? what quranic elements the jizyah have? tell me numbers as U stated, where is the scripture that you have to base off it on anything? u told me its less than muslim tax

I told you, the sources of the amounts of Jyziah are primarily how the oredecessors applied them. There isn't clear numbers in the Qur'an or hadiths, just the example of the first muslims.

2-3, its the same as the christian ones, the original text din use sex slave or little girls at all yet you used it so whats your point? its bad when i do it not bad when u do it?

4, ok-ok fine, i havent remembered then, but atleast mine was contexually chained together like it wasnt a random insult.

5, complete self make opinion that doesnt even make any sense, you tryna create fud doesnt mean anything lmao, i must have hit the spots i guess.

6, see this is where you admit your loss, you mention random things that has no relevancy to the debate whatso ever, you act emotional, you use personal insults and ad hominem (i didnt use them first) these speaks volumes and in any platform you would have lost already

so we dont know what happens so allah could send them lol, thats like saying ok my dog is doing backflips in 4th dimension disprove it, also where is your source on that arabic text thing?

its funny how you think im scared or cant reply to your verses whatso ever but im doing it delebetary to show anyone and you how ridicolous you are, you cant defend your points so you just bring up others and expect anything to be answered
its honestly pathetic that you would even think that, just imagine this on a live platform we talk about the taxes and you mention sex slavery out of nowhere just pathetic.

i have no insecurity but you showed great amount of projection in these texts
i think we should just end it here

 

[ThatDjangoWalk]

1, complete joke, so the ottoman empire wasnt completely off from scripture just like u said huh? what quranic elements the jizyah have? tell me numbers as U stated, where is the scripture that you have to base off it on anything? u told me its less than muslim tax

2-3, its the same as the christian ones, the original text din use sex slave or little girls at all yet you used it so whats your point? its bad when i do it not bad when u do it?

False, show me a single jewish or christian scholar from the past who says that. This is ridiculous. And you skip everything, i just gave you a bible verse, what you did is that you picked up some random scholar putting parenthesis and decided to post it like if it was part of the Qur'an

4, ok-ok fine, i havent remembered then, but atleast mine was contexually chained together like it wasnt a random insult.

5, complete self make opinion that doesnt even make any sense, you tryna create fud doesnt mean anything lmao, i must have hit the spots i guess.

No

6, see this is where you admit your loss, you mention random things that has no relevancy to the debate whatso ever, you act emotional, you use personal insults and ad hominem (i didnt use them first) these speaks volumes and in any platform you would have lost already

No, you are the one who started insulting. I told you to not make it a Barsa-Madrid and you jumped

so we dont know what happens so allah could send them lol, thats like saying ok my dog is doing backflips in 4th dimension disprove it, also where is your source on that arabic text thing?

We don't know about metaphysics, are you willing to say that we understand metaphysics? Especially as a christian?

Do you want me to vribg Lisan ul Arab or some abi qutayba dictionary? Ridiculous

Give me the ancient source that the verse of the bible is out of context, and explain all the rest of slavery, etc

its funny how you think im scared or cant reply to your verses whatso ever but im doing it delebetary to show anyone and you how ridicolous you are, you cant defend your points so you just bring up others and expect anything to be answered
its honestly pathetic that you would even think that, just imagine this on a live platform we talk about the taxes and you mention sex slavery out of nowhere just pathetic.

i have no insecurity but you showed great amount of projection in these texts
i think we should just end it here

Ridiculous man, more emoticons to hide insecurities huh

 

[ThatDjangoWalk]

end of the day its over,

your points are in shambles,

your less tax according to scripture was wrong, your muh its not a subdue tax was wrong what else even is left?
oh but look at this random text

maybe one time i will destroy your opinion on the fellow matters too

It doesn't matter how much i respond and then present you with the evidence.

All you will say is "Muh muh, i win (insert emoticon), and i won't respond to the criticism you make to my position because muh muh"

Ridiculous man, read the Bible and after some months then, when you learn where you stand make a comeback

 

[goat2x]

I told you, the sources of the amounts of Jyziah are primarily how the oredecessors applied them. There isn't clear numbers in the Qur'an or hadiths, just the example of the first muslims.

Tell me from the quran and the hadith what are the requirements are rules from jizyah also on how u should apply them if it days nothing that sort then your barking is useless

 

[Gengar]

Muh usa muh jews muh muh
I already see ton of refugees 99% of them are men btw
Taliban is just enforcing the quran why is that bad
Muh usa lost the war since they left its been total domination

those fleeing afghanistan are the secular people, so of course they will think enforcing sharia/islam is a bad thing (its not, like you said)

 

[volcelfatcel]

@StrangerDanger thoughts on sayheyhey 2.0

 

[ThatDjangoWalk]

Tell me from the quran and the hadith what are the requirements are rules from jizyah also on how u should apply them if it days nothing that sort then your barking is useless

Again? Do you see what i write or not? I told you that Qur'an and Hadith do not specify it, and the opinions including the majority ones are based on what the first muslims and rulerships did. What Ottomans did or not is irrelevant, is like if i pick up some random European mediaval country who tortured some group and say "THIS IS CHRISTIANITY" Do the historical research or something.

 

[Gengar]

Tell me from the quran and the hadith what are the requirements are rules from jizyah also on how u should apply them if it days nothing that sort then your barking is useless

jizya tax is applied to non-muslims, it is considerably lower than the zakaat which muslims have to pay, zakaat is 2.5% over your entire belongings. so non-muslims actually have it better when it comes to that. its also part of the reason why certain groups under islamic rule didnt want to become reverts as they would have to pay more taxes if they did

 

[StrangerDanger]

@StrangerDanger thoughts on sayheyhey 2.0

turk

 

[goat2x]

False, show me a single jewish or christian scholar from the past who says that. This is ridiculous. And you skip everything, i just gave you a bible verse, what you did is that you picked up some random scholar putting parenthesis and decided to post it like if it was part of the Qur'an


No

No, you are the one who started insulting. I told you to not make it a Barsa-Madrid and you jumped

We don't know about metaphysics, are you willing to say that we understand metaphysics? Especially as a christian?

Do you want me to vribg Lisan ul Arab or some abi qutayba dictionary? Ridiculous

Give me the ancient source that the verse of the bible is out of context, and explain all the rest of slavery, etc

Ridiculous man, more emoticons to hide insecurities huh

Says what i dont understand u , i just domt understand u qouting virgin sex slaves but when i do the same thing I'm kind of a big villain

I didnt insult yourself but i said muhammad makes up tales, this isnt ad hominem regardless what u feel but ok idk how to say it but i feel like muhammad made up stories like on a respectable level, like thats my thoughts dont wanna insult anyone.

I mean muh metaphysics when something ridiculous gets mentioned as this lol

Nah i just dont trust your word cuz you lied a decent amount of times lol

You are the only one insecure clearly keep projecting boyo maybe deep down u know doubt it

 

[goat2x]

Again? Do you see what i write or not? I told you that Qur'an and Hadith do not specify it, and the opinions including the majority ones are based on what the first muslims and rulerships did. What Ottomans did or not is irrelevant, is like if i pick up some random European mediaval country who tortured some group and say "THIS IS CHRISTIANITY" Do the historical research or something.

This is ridiculously low iq take does the quran mentiom that you have to take it from your ancestors or not? Lol as far as im concerned the ottomans didnt go against scripture ad u mentioned so u lied again.

Those europeam mediveal countries would have doe, cant u see that we operate on a different level lol

 

[volcelfatcel]

Says what i dont understand u , i just domt understand u qouting virgin sex slaves but when i do the same thing I'm kind of a big villain

I didnt insult yourself but i said muhammad makes up tales, this isnt ad hominem regardless what u feel but ok idk how to say it but i feel like muhammad made up stories like on a respectable level, like thats my thoughts dont wanna insult anyone.

I mean muh metaphysics when something ridiculous gets mentioned as this lol

Nah i just dont trust your word cuz you lied a decent amount of times lol

You are the only one insecure clearly keep projecting boyo maybe deep down u know doubt it

This is ridiculously low iq take does the quran mentiom that you have to take it from your ancestors or not? Lol as far as im concerned the ottomans didnt go against scripture ad u mentioned so u lied again.

Those europeam mediveal countries would have doe, cant u see that we operate on a different level lol

fucking hell man
I applaud you for reading all of these essays

sayheyhey lives on forever

 

[goat2x]

It doesn't matter how much i respond and then present you with the evidence.

All you will say is "Muh muh, i win (insert emoticon), and i won't respond to the criticism you make to my position because muh muh"

Ridiculous man, read the Bible and after some months then, when you learn where you stand make a comeback

You didnt present any evidence whatso ever hence why u got stuck up w me not replying to strawman lol

All the criticism you take against my position are answered but random subjects arent that is it

The only ridiculous thing is that you dont consider yourself pathetic honestly, its sad

 

[ThatDjangoWalk]

Says what i dont understand u , i just domt understand u qouting virgin sex slaves but when i do the same thing I'm kind of a big villain

False, you definetly don't use a consistent criteria for anything. You start and when i counter attack you get defensive and sensible.

I didnt insult yourself but i said muhammad makes up tales, this isnt ad hominem regardless what u feel but ok idk how to say it but i feel like muhammad made up stories like on a respectable level, like thats my thoughts dont wanna insult anyone.

False, you was just trying to flame when i was contesting you and when i responded you started to attack more.

I mean muh metaphysics when something ridiculous gets mentioned as this lol

What is the problem with metaphysics? We both believe in it as far as i know, again emoticons? Still insecure?

Nah i just dont trust your word cuz you lied a decent amount of times lol

You are the only one insecure clearly keep projecting boyo maybe deep down u know doubt it

Go have a sleep or something, you need it.

 

[ThatDjangoWalk]

This is ridiculously low iq take does the quran mentiom that you have to take it from your ancestors or not? Lol as far as im concerned the ottomans didnt go against scripture ad u mentioned so u lied again.

First, i never lied, you on the other hand...

No, the Prophet (alayhi a salat wa salam) said The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "The best people are those of my generation, and then those who will come after them (the next generation), and then those who will come after them (i.e. the next generation), and then after them, there will come people whose witness will precede their oaths, and whose oaths will precede their witness."

If we don't have something specified in Qur'an and narrations many give them preference.

Answer every biblical verse i quoted like i'm doing, you didn't answer a single one except the one in which you lied and said "Muh muh, mistranslated" and when presented with all the translations you rejected them. Answer everything i posted and stop trying to switch attention desperately.

Those europeam mediveal countries would have doe, cant u see that we operate on a different level lol

What different level? European countries have the same affiliation with christianity as you have with sincerity and honesty.

 

[ThatDjangoWalk]

You didnt present any evidence whatso ever hence why u got stuck up w me not replying to strawman lol

I gave you the opinions of the 4 recognised schools of thought, the opinion of the scholars, etc. On the other hand you didn't answer a single thing about the Bible.

You are asking me a criteria which i am fulfilling while on your side all you have is "Muh muh, this verse or that verse mistranslated or out of context because i said it" even tho any jewish or christian scholar would not agree.

I think you give too much value to your reputation on this place, nobody cares man.

All the criticism you take against my position are answered but random subjects arent that is it

False, and anyone can see it.

The only ridiculous thing is that you dont consider yourself pathetic honestly, its sad

I have seen Trash cans with more debate skills, not even a single answer you provided. I'm still waiting.

All you have is desperate attempts to swithc attention everytime i tell you to answer something.

 

[Enfant terrible]

this thread discussion encourages me to prophetmax
Its the best way to influnece the world the way you want

 

[ToursOverBoyo2020]

Why don't Americans stop killing them for sport?

 

[IdiAmin]

Inshallah quran's coming home

 

[goat2x]

I gave you the opinions of the 4 recognised schools of thought, the opinion of the scholars, etc. On the other hand you didn't answer a single thing about the Bible.

You are asking me a criteria which i am fulfilling while on your side all you have is "Muh muh, this verse or that verse mistranslated or out of context because i said it" even tho any jewish or christian scholar would not agree.

I think you give too much value to your reputation on this place, nobody cares man.

False, and anyone can see it.

I have seen Trash cans with more debate skills, not even a single answer you provided. I'm still waiting.

All you have is desperate attempts to swithc attention everytime i tell you to answer something.

What was relevant to the thread i answered already lol
Im not addressing random points you being up sorry like i cant sit down here everyday with u adding new points cuz your original point is in shambles lmfao
Like I said maybe next time we can debage the slavery part but you making strawman shows that you lost regardless what your low iq peanut brain power thinks, u think im scared to reply? Pathetic, im switching things but u cant even stick to the subject cuz you know your point isnt valid at all hence why u copy paste random things from nowhere.
You are not full filling anything all ppl can see it lol, all the points still stand
Jumping over this point means you lost, which is pretty appearent to anyone over 80 iq ngl

 

[goat2x]

First, i never lied, you on the other hand...

No, the Prophet (alayhi a salat wa salam) said The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "The best people are those of my generation, and then those who will come after them (the next generation), and then those who will come after them (i.e. the next generation), and then after them, there will come people whose witness will precede their oaths, and whose oaths will precede their witness."

If we don't have something specified in Qur'an and narrations many give them preference.

Answer every biblical verse i quoted like i'm doing, you didn't answer a single one except the one in which you lied and said "Muh muh, mistranslated" and when presented with all the translations you rejected them. Answer everything i posted and stop trying to switch attention desperately.

What different level? European countries have the same affiliation with christianity as you have with sincerity and honesty.

1, u said the ottomans went against scripture, u said the muslims who took jizyah as women went against SCRIPTURE, this isnt true. The jiyyah isnt specified what it is so u lied
U said that the jiyyah is less for non muslims other false thing, from what i can see the ottomans didnt go against scripture, your point is false again lol like how retard3d subhuman can u be, cant u think for a second this is ridiculous your spamming replies without giving 10 iq take
Muslims will take more taxes from christians az jizyah cuz its not specified , and they ve been doing it in all religiosly different countries which they conquered , ottomans caliphate etc

2, i answered the relevant ones already that it is mistranslated you arabs use this all the time,

If u scroll back the old transition isnt about sex slaves, and its not about raping the little girls its all u implied, says no where, like idk what to say when ur retarded and u cant read
Different level thinking skills ur a low iq potato probably just spamming out of the mud hut

 

[goat2x]

False, you definetly don't use a consistent criteria for anything. You start and when i counter attack you get defensive and sensible.

False, you was just trying to flame when i was contesting you and when i responded you started to attack more.

What is the problem with metaphysics? We both believe in it as far as i know, again emoticons? Still insecure?

Go have a sleep or something, you need it.

You started throwing ad hominens at me you retarded subhhman dog just stop with this shit alreadu you are such a baboon iq subhuman like U SAId that i insulted muhammad by telling he told tales so you became angered like a little pussy amd started to attack me lol, read the replies before ur honestly pathetic and ridiculous
Same with your made up shit w emojis, do u have sumthing against emojis you arent being sum 200 iq psychology st they are literally just emojis its literally just cringe what ur doing

 

[ThatDjangoWalk]

1, u said the ottomans went against scripture, u said the muslims who took jizyah as women went against SCRIPTURE, this isnt true. The jiyyah isnt specified what it is so u lied

No, the jyziah accordingnto scholarly position is much more less than zakat. But you will pick up like the most random opinion to support dedperately your view and ignore the rest of thousands of scholars.

U said that the jiyyah is less for non muslims other false thing, from what i can see the ottomans didnt go against scripture, your point is false again lol like how retard3d subhuman can u be, cant u think for a second this is ridiculous your spamming replies without giving 10 iq take
Muslims will take more taxes from christians az jizyah cuz its not specified , and they ve been doing it in all religiosly different countries which they conquered , ottomans caliphate etc

No, false. Only the Hanafi madhab says that the imam can raise the jyzia how he wants, which is not definetly the scholarly position. Is like when they say you have to pray Asr late while practically no scholar will accept this, perhaps some few among THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS.

All you have is "Muh muh, ottomans bad" while i can do the exact same with christianity and pick up rulerships which go against the majority of opinions just for wordly reasons and say "THIS IS CHRISTIANITY!"

Is just a dumb critetia, you skip all the good history and go directly desperately to the bad, so what about this then? In 869 CE, patriarch Theodosius of Jerusalem said: “The Saracens [i.e. the Muslims] show us great goodwill. They allow us to build our churches and to observe our own customs without hindrance.”

Bernard the Wise, a pilgrim monk, visited Egypt and Palestine in the reign of Al-Mu’tazz (866-9 CE), and he had the following to say: “…the Christians and the Pagans [i.e. Muslims] have this kind of peace between them there that if I was going on a journey, and on the way the camel or donkey which bore my poor luggage were to die, and I was to abandon all my goods without any guardian, and go to the city for another pack animal, when I came back I would find all my property uninjured: such is the peace there.”

This is much earlier history than the ottomans and i can bring you hundreds of quotes like this, but all you try to do is to desperately Straw Man my position and then proceed to desperately attack.

2, i answered the relevant ones already that it is mistranslated you arabs use this all the time,

It is not, in this link you have every christian accepted translation and everyone of tyem says the same. It is just your desperate attempt to avoid everything, and then you have the shamelessness to ask me "Muh muh give me reference", but then go against any decent christian scholarly opinion

This is the link

Numbers 31:17 - Vengeance on Midian

So now, kill all the boys, as well as every woman who has had relations with a man,

biblehub.com

And by the way this is nothing, you didn't answer to Genesis, to the tens of slavery verses i brought and many others. And even the only one you are trying to desperately answer you just can't bring support from judeochristian old scholarship.

If u scroll back the old transition isnt about sex slaves, and its not about raping the little girls its all u implied, says no where, like idk what to say when ur retarded and u cant read
Different level thinking skills ur a low iq potato probably just spamming out of the mud hut

False again, keep avoiding and not giving proof for nothing. Sad.

 

[ThatDjangoWalk]

You started throwing ad hominens at me you retarded subhhman dog just stop with this shit alreadu you are such a baboon iq subhuman like U SAId that i insulted muhammad by telling he told tales so you became angered like a little pussy amd started to attack me lol, read the replies before ur honestly pathetic and ridiculous
Same with your made up shit w emojis, do u have sumthing against emojis you arent being sum 200 iq psychology st they are literally just emojis its literally just cringe what ur doing

This is just crying for crying, it is below of my level to continue responding to this kind of comments.

 

[Jason Voorhees]

So many words itt. Fuark

 

[goat2x]

No, the jyziah accordingnto scholarly position is much more less than zakat. But you will pick up like the most random opinion to support dedperately your view and ignore the rest of thousands of scholars.

No, false. Only the Hanafi madhab says that the imam can raise the jyzia how he wants, which is not definetly the scholarly position. Is like when they say you have to pray Asr late while practically no scholar will accept this, perhaps some few among THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS.

It is not, in this link you have every christian accepted translation and everyone of tyem says the same. It is just your desperate attempt to avoid everything, and then you have the shamelessness to ask me "Muh muh give me reference", but then go against any decent christian scholarly opinion

This is the link

Numbers 31:17 - Vengeance on Midian

So now, kill all the boys, as well as every woman who has had relations with a man,

biblehub.com

And by the way this is nothing, you didn't answer to Genesis, to the tens of slavery verses i brought and many others. And even the only one you are trying to desperately answer you just can't bring support from judeochristian old scholarship.

False again, keep avoiding and not giving proof for nothing. Sad.

Scholarly position so u just pick and chose what to accept what to not lol when i mention certain muslims u become enraged doe, 2hat i care about is scripture wise what it is says about the jizyah which what matters i dont care about random scholars, the same way u didnt when u mentioned it
I didnt say u can raise jizyah i said its not a specific tax especially not less than christians its not written in scripture as u said so u lied,
As far as im concerned the ottomans didnt go against islam with their taxes same w the caliphate so you were wrong again


Ur translation was something that spare the little boy and keep the virgins as sex slaves u can literally scroll back the link you sent now is good thats the original one

Like i said i only answer to things relevant to the discussion if i want to talk about slavery etc this is another thread, this is just strawmanning

U can literally scroll back im working right now the proof is there i dont lie like yourself
[automerge]1629102501[/automerge]

No, the jyziah accordingnto scholarly position is much more less than zakat. But you will pick up like the most random opinion to support dedperately your view and ignore the rest of thousands of scholars.

No, false. Only the Hanafi madhab says that the imam can raise the jyzia how he wants, which is not definetly the scholarly position. Is like when they say you have to pray Asr late while practically no scholar will accept this, perhaps some few among THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS.

It is not, in this link you have every christian accepted translation and everyone of tyem says the same. It is just your desperate attempt to avoid everything, and then you have the shamelessness to ask me "Muh muh give me reference", but then go against any decent christian scholarly opinion

This is the link

Numbers 31:17 - Vengeance on Midian

So now, kill all the boys, as well as every woman who has had relations with a man,

biblehub.com

And by the way this is nothing, you didn't answer to Genesis, to the tens of slavery verses i brought and many others. And even the only one you are trying to desperately answer you just can't bring support from judeochristian old scholarship.

False again, keep avoiding and not giving proof for nothing. Sad.

Scholarly position so u just pick and chose what to accept what to not lol when i mention certain muslims u become enraged doe, 2hat i care about is scripture wise what it is says about the jizyah which what matters i dont care about random scholars, the same way u didnt when u mentioned it
I didnt say u can raise jizyah i said its not a specific tax especially not less than christians its not written in scripture as u said so u lied,
As far as im concerned the ottomans didnt go against islam with their taxes same w the caliphate so you were wrong again


Ur translation was something that spare the little boy and keep the virgins as sex slaves u can literally scroll back the link you sent now is good thats the original one

Like i said i only answer to things relevant to the discussion if i want to talk about slavery etc this is another thread, this is just strawmanning

U can literally scroll back im working right now the proof is there i dont lie like yourself

 

[goat2x]

This is just crying for crying, it is below of my level to continue responding to this kind of comments.

Ur the one started crying like a whore now its below you hypocrite bitch.