CloudyCuck
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This is a short thread for dnrcels on why I think Christianity is a coherent and logical belief system.
The first step is to determine whether the atheist or the theist world view is correct.
Religion is subjective and dependent on your inner life but as objective proof I give you Immanuel Kant’s Transcendental Argument for God (summarised by AI for attentioncels)
1. The Pre-Critical Argument (The "Early" TAG)
In his early work, The Only Possible Argument in Support of a Demonstration of the Existence of God (1763), Kant formulated a version of TAG that is closer to modern apologetics:
2. The Critical Turn: God as a "Postulate"
In his later, more famous work (Critique of Pure Reason), Kant famously rejected all traditional "proofs" for God, including his own earlier argument. He shifted from trying to know God through theory to assuming God through ethics:
For Kant, God is a transcendental ideal—a "regulative principle" that our minds use to make sense of morality and the unity of the world, even if we can't observe Him directly. He famously said, "I had to deny knowledge in order to make room for faith," meaning reason shows us the need for God, even if it cannot provide a proof of Him.
Ding ding, faggots. Time for Sunday School.
Now that we have that, we have to think: why Christianity? I’m going to put aside the religions that nobody takes seriously and the more minor religions and focus on the big players.
Christianity or Islam?
- Muhammad’s argument for the Quran is that an angel brought him the revelations that would later become the book. However, this claim is btfo’d by St Paul 500 years before Muhammad’s birth.
But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. - Galatians 1:8
Christianity or Buddhism?
- Buddhism generally views Christianity through the lens of skillful means (
upaya), often interpreting Jesus as a high-level Bodhisattva or an enlightened teacher rather than a divine savior.
Meaning, they want spiritual ascension and they focus on inner prayer, meditation, reflection, just like Christians. However, they deny an ultimate Creator as a source of everything. What’s wrong with that? Well, this is what they say about the Universe (AI) summary:
The Universe is viewed as a cyclical, beginningless, and endless phenomenon, operating through, and shaped by, interdependence and karma rather than a creator god. It includes diverse realms—from hellish to heavenly—inhabited by beings reborn based on their actions, with the ultimate goal being enlightenment to transcend this cycle (samsara).
So they want to transform spiritually through meditation and good deeds and improve their relationship with an immortal, ever present Universe. Basically, very close to Christian ethics and lifestyle, but without directly stating there is a deity, even if they see the Universe as kind of a deity.
So they want to be Christian but atheist at the same time. However, as the Transcendental argument for God posits, enlightenment, ethics, ascension and knowledge are ultimately impossible without a higher being.
Christianity or New Age / Satanism / Paganism / Occultism ?
- The people that adhere to the latter are mostly spiritually awake, but rebellious folk that want to lead a spiritual life, but they view the Church as either controlling, fraudmaxxed, or boring.
I believe it is inherently hypocritical of them to reject the former worldview for the latter because :
- Both Christianity and Fringe Occultism require a ‘suspension of disbelief’ and the willingness to trust information that seems illogical at first.
- Both Christianity and Fringe Occultism require the practitioner to plead for help from a higher being, offering something in return.
In Christianity, God is loving and only requires our time and desire to be better. Make no mistake however, there are other spirits out there and while they are a lot less powerful, they are far more malevolent. Most mythological gods and spirits are never shown as loving men and usually require a lot more (blood, semen, or some other kind of action). Ultimately, this will damage you in ways that are impossible to predict because the beings you are in contact with simply do not have your best interest at heart.
Debunks to some common arguments against Christianity:
- ‘Dnr’ - you read it all, faggot. You read it all.
- ‘Christianity was a slave religion to cope with oppresion’ - as per Nietzsche and @alurmo
Jesus addresses this Himself. In Jewish prophecies, the Messiah was misinterpreted to be a political figure that liberates the Jews from Rome. However, Jesus specifies that He is not interested in politics.
Referring to a coin that bore Ceasar’s image, Jesus says
"Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's"
(Matthew 22:21, Mark 12:17, Luke 20:25)
In another quote, He says:
"My kingdom is not of this world"
(John 18:36)
Jesus was always adamant that Christianity is strictly spiritual. If he had been encouraging people to rebel, the Romans would have been after Him. However, they are actually against executing him. The Roman Prefect of Judea, Pilate Pontus is ready to release Jesus. The only reason He is executed is because of the Jews’ insistence (shocking) to murder Him.
- ‘Christianity is pacifist and weak’
This often refers to the ‘Turn the other cheek’ quote, which is often misinterpreted. Yes, while we are ordered to forgive and not to seek revenge, it doesn’t mean you can’t defend yourself.
Some Bible verses for you:
“They surrounded me on every side, but in the name of the LORD I cut them down”
(Psalm 118:11)
“When it was almost time for the Jewish Passover, Jesus went up to Jerusalem. 14 In the temple courts he found people selling cattle, sheep and doves, and others sitting at tables exchanging money. 15 So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple courts, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables. 16 To those who sold doves he said, “Get these out of here! Stop turning my Father’s house into a market!”
(John 2:13-2:16)
- Christianity was changed/corrupted at some point:
Think about it pal. Christians endured:
Torture
Slavery
Execution on sight if they refused to honour Roman gods
Execution on sight if they refused to honour Allah.
Execution on sight if they refused to even say that the Christian God wasn’t legitimate.
Have you ever been tortured? Imagine yourself being tied up while a schizo is slicing strips of skin off your torso or burning you with a hot iron and demanding that you say you God isn’t real. I know for a fact all of us in are gonna be turning atheist real quick.
Why the FUCK would hundreds of thousands endure torture and a horrible death when they an offered an out by just saying ‘nah jk’. And don’t say they did it because they were afraid of going to Hell. St Peter, a leading apostle and the first bishop of Rome, denied God THREE times under fear of death. He was forgiven.
So you don’t automatically go to Hell if you deny God. The reason these people endured is because they knew there was something out there. Something real.
St Michael mogging Lucifer. Brutally over for Satancels
Thank you for reading. AI was used for some summaries.
Tagging Christiancels. Tell me if I missed something:
@NatureEnjoyer_ @PrinceLuenLeoncur @Jesus is King Amen. @Jesus_ist_König
The first step is to determine whether the atheist or the theist world view is correct.
Religion is subjective and dependent on your inner life but as objective proof I give you Immanuel Kant’s Transcendental Argument for God (summarised by AI for attentioncels)
1. The Pre-Critical Argument (The "Early" TAG)
In his early work, The Only Possible Argument in Support of a Demonstration of the Existence of God (1763), Kant formulated a version of TAG that is closer to modern apologetics:
- Possibility requires Actuality: He argued that for anything to be "possible" (even as a thought), there must be some existing reality that grounds that possibility.
- The Necessary Being: If nothing existed, nothing would be possible. Since things arepossible, an absolutely necessary being (God) must exist as the "ground of all real possibility".
2. The Critical Turn: God as a "Postulate"
In his later, more famous work (Critique of Pure Reason), Kant famously rejected all traditional "proofs" for God, including his own earlier argument. He shifted from trying to know God through theory to assuming God through ethics:
- The Moral Gap: Kant argued that humans have a "categorical imperative" (a moral duty) to pursue the Summum Bonum—the "Highest Good," where virtue is perfectly rewarded with happiness.
- Ought Implies Can: If we ought to achieve this highest good, it must be possible to achieve it.
- God as the Enabler: Since we cannot harmonize virtue and happiness on our own (bad things happen to good people), we must postulate a moral, all-powerful God who can ensure this harmony in the afterlife.
For Kant, God is a transcendental ideal—a "regulative principle" that our minds use to make sense of morality and the unity of the world, even if we can't observe Him directly. He famously said, "I had to deny knowledge in order to make room for faith," meaning reason shows us the need for God, even if it cannot provide a proof of Him.
Ding ding, faggots. Time for Sunday School.
Now that we have that, we have to think: why Christianity? I’m going to put aside the religions that nobody takes seriously and the more minor religions and focus on the big players.
Christianity or Islam?
- Muhammad’s argument for the Quran is that an angel brought him the revelations that would later become the book. However, this claim is btfo’d by St Paul 500 years before Muhammad’s birth.
But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. - Galatians 1:8
Christianity or Buddhism?
- Buddhism generally views Christianity through the lens of skillful means (
upaya), often interpreting Jesus as a high-level Bodhisattva or an enlightened teacher rather than a divine savior.
Meaning, they want spiritual ascension and they focus on inner prayer, meditation, reflection, just like Christians. However, they deny an ultimate Creator as a source of everything. What’s wrong with that? Well, this is what they say about the Universe (AI) summary:
The Universe is viewed as a cyclical, beginningless, and endless phenomenon, operating through, and shaped by, interdependence and karma rather than a creator god. It includes diverse realms—from hellish to heavenly—inhabited by beings reborn based on their actions, with the ultimate goal being enlightenment to transcend this cycle (samsara).
So they want to transform spiritually through meditation and good deeds and improve their relationship with an immortal, ever present Universe. Basically, very close to Christian ethics and lifestyle, but without directly stating there is a deity, even if they see the Universe as kind of a deity.
So they want to be Christian but atheist at the same time. However, as the Transcendental argument for God posits, enlightenment, ethics, ascension and knowledge are ultimately impossible without a higher being.
Christianity or New Age / Satanism / Paganism / Occultism ?
- The people that adhere to the latter are mostly spiritually awake, but rebellious folk that want to lead a spiritual life, but they view the Church as either controlling, fraudmaxxed, or boring.
I believe it is inherently hypocritical of them to reject the former worldview for the latter because :
- Both Christianity and Fringe Occultism require a ‘suspension of disbelief’ and the willingness to trust information that seems illogical at first.
- Both Christianity and Fringe Occultism require the practitioner to plead for help from a higher being, offering something in return.
In Christianity, God is loving and only requires our time and desire to be better. Make no mistake however, there are other spirits out there and while they are a lot less powerful, they are far more malevolent. Most mythological gods and spirits are never shown as loving men and usually require a lot more (blood, semen, or some other kind of action). Ultimately, this will damage you in ways that are impossible to predict because the beings you are in contact with simply do not have your best interest at heart.
Debunks to some common arguments against Christianity:
- ‘Dnr’ - you read it all, faggot. You read it all.
- ‘Christianity was a slave religion to cope with oppresion’ - as per Nietzsche and @alurmo
Jesus addresses this Himself. In Jewish prophecies, the Messiah was misinterpreted to be a political figure that liberates the Jews from Rome. However, Jesus specifies that He is not interested in politics.
Referring to a coin that bore Ceasar’s image, Jesus says
"Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's"
(Matthew 22:21, Mark 12:17, Luke 20:25)
In another quote, He says:
"My kingdom is not of this world"
(John 18:36)
Jesus was always adamant that Christianity is strictly spiritual. If he had been encouraging people to rebel, the Romans would have been after Him. However, they are actually against executing him. The Roman Prefect of Judea, Pilate Pontus is ready to release Jesus. The only reason He is executed is because of the Jews’ insistence (shocking) to murder Him.
- ‘Christianity is pacifist and weak’
This often refers to the ‘Turn the other cheek’ quote, which is often misinterpreted. Yes, while we are ordered to forgive and not to seek revenge, it doesn’t mean you can’t defend yourself.
Some Bible verses for you:
“They surrounded me on every side, but in the name of the LORD I cut them down”
(Psalm 118:11)
“When it was almost time for the Jewish Passover, Jesus went up to Jerusalem. 14 In the temple courts he found people selling cattle, sheep and doves, and others sitting at tables exchanging money. 15 So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple courts, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables. 16 To those who sold doves he said, “Get these out of here! Stop turning my Father’s house into a market!”
(John 2:13-2:16)
- Christianity was changed/corrupted at some point:
Think about it pal. Christians endured:
Torture
Slavery
Execution on sight if they refused to honour Roman gods
Execution on sight if they refused to honour Allah.
Execution on sight if they refused to even say that the Christian God wasn’t legitimate.
Have you ever been tortured? Imagine yourself being tied up while a schizo is slicing strips of skin off your torso or burning you with a hot iron and demanding that you say you God isn’t real. I know for a fact all of us in are gonna be turning atheist real quick.
Why the FUCK would hundreds of thousands endure torture and a horrible death when they an offered an out by just saying ‘nah jk’. And don’t say they did it because they were afraid of going to Hell. St Peter, a leading apostle and the first bishop of Rome, denied God THREE times under fear of death. He was forgiven.
So you don’t automatically go to Hell if you deny God. The reason these people endured is because they knew there was something out there. Something real.
St Michael mogging Lucifer. Brutally over for Satancels
Thank you for reading. AI was used for some summaries.
Tagging Christiancels. Tell me if I missed something:
@NatureEnjoyer_ @PrinceLuenLeoncur @Jesus is King Amen. @Jesus_ist_König
