Why isn’t there an expander for these other palatal sutures?

[Deleted member 6423]

Why can’t you corticopuncture those other 2 sutures horizontal of the midline suture with mse or an expander meant for forward growth to induce-“forward growth”??

 

[Sens]

 

[Chowdog]

because you have a tongue that does that, and it should be your main pillar of support when it comes to mouth posture

 

[noprogressno]

View attachment 1440280
Why can’t you corticopuncture those other 2 sutures horizontal of the midline suture with mse or an expander meant for forward growth to induce-“forward growth”??

Thats what I was thinking too. I have came to a conclusion since then and the reason is probably because of 3 reasons:
1. Newtons basic law of force, so when two objects interact, they apply forces to each other of equal magnitude and opposite direction. Therefore an expander appliance used on this area will indeed apply force onto the maxilla in a forward way, but it will also apply a force in a backwards way onto the pterygoid process. Who knows what that would cause...
2. Transversal palatal suture isn't usually a straight line unlike midpalatal suture(take the first 2 photos as an example). It has a different shape on different people. So corticopuncturing it might not be accurate. Maybe with cone beam ct determining the shape of the transversal palatal suture and making an applience/splint to be able to accurately corticopuncture the transversal palatal suture line(like in the 3rd 4th and 5th photos) would be possible however I am not sure if cone bean ct would be able to see the transversal palatal suture line clearly...
3. other sutures of the maxilla are not as malleable as the midpalatal suture. The midpalatal suture is basically the only suture that requires such low amounts of force to be split. Other sutures will probably need much higher amounts of force

So basically there is 1 major issue that needs to be solved to create that kind of appliance and that is creating a device that will exert force in 1 way only, which is not possible as far as my basic physics knowledge goes. That is why the only option available to us is protraction face mask(pr facepulling if you want to call it that way) for now
I have some weird idea that eliminates the facemask and puts force in 1 way only but it probably is too dangerous and would not be fit for human use...

 

[noprogressno]

because you have a tongue that does that, and it should be your main pillar of support when it comes to mouth posture

mewing does not chance skeletal structure past puberty... Show me 1 person that significantly made their maxilla more forward grown with just applying force by their tongue past puberty...

 

[Sens]

mewing does not chance skeletal structure past puberty... Show me 1 person that significantly made their maxilla more forward grown with just applying force by their tongue past puberty...

 

[noprogressno]

you are giving salludon as an example, no one is sure if his results are natural or he did something else... I also don't believe that he got major surgery done however I highly doubt that he was recessed before he started mewing and doing other things... So unless you show before pictures as well I will not consider him as an example of an adult who completely changed their skeletal structure by mewing only...

 

[Deleted member 6423]

Thats what I was thinking too. I have came to a conclusion since then and the reason is probably because of 3 reasons:
1. Newtons basic law of force, so when two objects interact, they apply forces to each other of equal magnitude and opposite direction. Therefore an expander appliance used on this area will indeed apply force onto the maxilla in a forward way, but it will also apply a force in a backwards way onto the pterygoid process. Who knows what that would cause...
2. Transversal palatal suture isn't usually a straight line unlike midpalatal suture(take the first 2 photos as an example). It has a different shape on different people. So corticopuncturing it might not be accurate. Maybe with cone beam ct determining the shape of the transversal palatal suture and making an applience/splint to be able to accurately corticopuncture the transversal palatal suture line(like in the 3rd 4th and 5th photos) would be possible however I am not sure if cone bean ct would be able to see the transversal palatal suture line clearly...
3. other sutures of the maxilla are not as malleable as the midpalatal suture. The midpalatal suture is basically the only suture that requires such low amounts of force to be split. Other sutures will probably need much higher amounts of force

So basically there is 1 major issue that needs to be solved to create that kind of appliance and that is creating a device that will exert force in 1 way only, which is not possible as far as my basic physics knowledge goes. That is why the only option available to us is protraction face mask(pr facepulling if you want to call it that way) for now
I have some weird idea that eliminates the facemask and puts force in 1 way only but it probably is too dangerous and would not be fit for human use...

I noticed you can see the location of the transverse palatine suture without any special tools, you’ll see the spot where the hard palate transitions into the soft palate and the suture line will be visible

What’s your weird idea?

 

[Sens]

you are giving salludon as an example, no one is sure if his results are natural or he did something else... I also don't believe that he got major surgery done however I highly doubt that he was recessed before he started mewing and doing other things... So unless you show before pictures as well I will not consider him as an example of an adult who completely changed their skeletal structure by mewing only...

Tbh first tranformation definetely looks legit to me.
Maxilla moved up and forward, nose became sharper and his tip became less bulbous due to support of cartiliage of tip, aslo his under eye support increased
Eyes became more hooded
Looks like whole cranium moved forward which infuenced his browridge
Mandible also improved, chin went little bit forward
Hyoid and skin under the jaw raised and tightened
His neck posture changed as well

It doesn't look like surgery, because everything have changed, i don't believe any surgeon in pakistan could give him that
just improve your neck posture and get 2 rhinos on tip and bridge, chin, browridge, undereye and jaw implant, facelift in Pakistan theory
I'm not even talking about Le fort with CCW, BSSO, Genoplasty and other surgeries which seems to give similar result

 

[noprogressno]

I noticed you can see the location of the transverse palatine suture without any special tools, you’ll see the spot where the hard palate transitions into the soft palate and the suture line will be visible
View attachment 1440418View attachment 1440419View attachment 1440420
What’s your weird idea?

I didn't know this... So the part that transitions from hard palate to soft palate is where the transverse palatine suture is located?
The idea is using magnets for force. Maybe something like mse modified with magnets or any kind of device that is bone anchored. Actually it might not be a completely unviable idea because magnets has been used in orthodontics before. To intrude teeth, close gaps etc... However they are not used anymore because of safety concerns. Obviously bad stuff happens if you accidentally swallow them... My idea was using a small magnet inside the mouth and using a strong magnet outside of the mouth with an appliance. However strong magnets are very dangerous anyways so the idea is not really useful...

 

[noprogressno]

Tbh first tranformation definetely looks legit to me.

I have been mewing for 7 years. Since I first learned about it, so I was 15 at the time. It really helped me about something and that is chronic pharyngitis. Due to constantly breathing from my mouth I always had a sore throat. It has been years now since I last had it. So obviously I am not saying that mewing has no benefits to adults. It's the natural thing to do, breathing the way we are supposed to, swallowing in a normal way, chewing, putting tongue on the roof of the mouth, everybody should be doing it whether they are young or not. However saying something like it will change the skeletal structure is absurd. I can tell you that in those 7 years I haven't seen a mm of chance in my facial structure. 7 years is a long time and I was very young when I started as well. It obviously doesn't do anything ''skeletally'' for adults. The example you give is clearly not recessed to start with. And the pictures are in black and white to add with that. A little bit more beard, different lighting, putting tongue on the roof of the mouth which raises the hyoid bone and makes the jawline look sharper because the skin under the jaw will not look saggy, maybe some non surgical procedures and there you go, you can easily get the second picture as a result.

 

[noprogressno]

And maybe wit little touch-ups on the photo as well...

 

[Deleted member 6423]

I have been mewing for 7 years. Since I first learned about it, so I was 15 at the time. It really helped me about something and that is chronic pharyngitis. Due to constantly breathing from my mouth I always had a sore throat. It has been years now since I last had it. So obviously I am not saying that mewing has no benefits to adults. It's the natural thing to do, breathing the way we are supposed to, swallowing in a normal way, chewing, putting tongue on the roof of the mouth, everybody should be doing it whether they are young or not. However saying something like it will change the skeletal structure is absurd. I can tell you that in those 7 years I haven't seen a mm of chance in my facial structure. 7 years is a long time and I was very young when I started as well. It obviously doesn't do anything ''skeletally'' for adults. The example you give is clearly not recessed to start with. And the pictures are in black and white to add with that. A little bit more beard, different lighting, putting tongue on the roof of the mouth which raises the hyoid bone and makes the jawline look sharper because the skin under the jaw will not look saggy, maybe some non surgical procedures and there you go, you can easily get the second picture as a result.

Were you hard mewing and improving posture or merely nose breathing?

 

[noprogressno]

Were you hard mewing and improving posture or merely nose breathing?

I wasn't hard mewing, I was soft mewing(the natural way in my opinion). And yes, I have been breathing from my nose since I learned about mewing as well(Its the definition of mewing, putting your tongue in the palate and breathing from nose). It was hard to breathe from my nose back then, its still hard to breathe from my nose, but it has become such an habit even if I breathe from my mouth purposely I just go back to nose breathing without noticing after a while. I didn't do any chewing exercises with falim gum or mastic gum like some people do, because it was painful for me as my bite is not ideal thanks to my orthodontist. Actually the reason why I started mewing was because orthodontics fucked my face up and I was trying to find a way to correct it. At the beginning I really believed it would work as well because it made so much sense how braces can retract face and most of the orthodontic problems could be solved with palatal expander if caught early on. Mewing was the natural replica of that, plus you could do it 7/24. 7 years of doing that, but still no change... I will continue though because it improved my health, not everything is aesthetics. But I can say that you learn that it does not work on adults after trying it for so many years. Try it yourself, I bet you will not see any chances as well unfortunately...

 

[Sens]

I have been mewing for 7 years. Since I first learned about it, so I was 15 at the time. It really helped me about something and that is chronic pharyngitis. Due to constantly breathing from my mouth I always had a sore throat. It has been years now since I last had it. So obviously I am not saying that mewing has no benefits to adults. It's the natural thing to do, breathing the way we are supposed to, swallowing in a normal way, chewing, putting tongue on the roof of the mouth, everybody should be doing it whether they are young or not. However saying something like it will change the skeletal structure is absurd. I can tell you that in those 7 years I haven't seen a mm of chance in my facial structure. 7 years is a long time and I was very young when I started as well. It obviously doesn't do anything ''skeletally'' for adults. The example you give is clearly not recessed to start with. And the pictures are in black and white to add with that. A little bit more beard, different lighting, putting tongue on the roof of the mouth which raises the hyoid bone and makes the jawline look sharper because the skin under the jaw will not look saggy, maybe some non surgical procedures and there you go, you can easily get the second picture as a result.

Nah, man.

You don't get the point, it's not just mewing.

He was in chin tuck position as long as he can througout the day and was pushing his back third of the tongue with extra force towards the palate.

It's very hard and it's painful af. And he used to do that all day long, and even when he slept, he was in chintuck position and his tongue was at the roof of the mouth automaticaly, bacause he was hard mewing all day.

Very few people can do that religiously and dedicated, because it's SUPER uncomfortable, especially if you are recessed, your whole skull sore and you can't breathe in that position.

 

[Htobrother]

Nah, man.

You don't get the point, it's not just mewing.

He was in chin tuck position as long as he can througout the day and was pushing his back third of the tongue with extra force towards the palate.

It's very hard and it's painful af. And he used to do that all day long, and even when he slept, he was in chintuck position and his tongue was at the roof of the mouth automaticaly, bacause he was hard mewing all day.

Very few people can do that religiously and dedicated, because it's SUPER uncomfortable, especially if you are recessed, your whole skull sore and you can't breathe in that position.

Then it’s like putting an appliance
You have to be like a fucking appliance wtf
Hard shit

 

[noprogressno]

I did chin tucking as well... Mainly because I had problems with my neck and thats what physiotherapist recommended to me. Its called "neutral position" in medical terms
Try it for 7 years and see for yourself. I would like to see your results... Not that you would see any, I can bet you on that

 

[thecel]

Thats what I was thinking too. I have came to a conclusion since then and the reason is probably because of 3 reasons:
1. Newtons basic law of force, so when two objects interact, they apply forces to each other of equal magnitude and opposite direction. Therefore an expander appliance used on this area will indeed apply force onto the maxilla in a forward way, but it will also apply a force in a backwards way onto the pterygoid process. Who knows what that would cause...
2. Transversal palatal suture isn't usually a straight line unlike midpalatal suture(take the first 2 photos as an example). It has a different shape on different people. So corticopuncturing it might not be accurate. Maybe with cone beam ct determining the shape of the transversal palatal suture and making an applience/splint to be able to accurately corticopuncture the transversal palatal suture line(like in the 3rd 4th and 5th photos) would be possible however I am not sure if cone bean ct would be able to see the transversal palatal suture line clearly...
3. other sutures of the maxilla are not as malleable as the midpalatal suture. The midpalatal suture is basically the only suture that requires such low amounts of force to be split. Other sutures will probably need much higher amounts of force

So basically there is 1 major issue that needs to be solved to create that kind of appliance and that is creating a device that will exert force in 1 way only, which is not possible as far as my basic physics knowledge goes. That is why the only option available to us is protraction face mask(pr facepulling if you want to call it that way) for now
I have some weird idea that eliminates the facemask and puts force in 1 way only but it probably is too dangerous and would not be fit for human use...

Is there something like MSE that expands your palate forward?

Instead of expanding horizontally like MSE, this would split the transverse palatine suture to create forward growth. Does an appliance like this exist? If it doesn't exist because it wouldn't work, why wouldn't it work?

looksmax.org

 

[thecel]

Why is there a device to split this suture but not that suture?!?!?!?!

mse splits the suture that I marked with red. But why there is no device to split the transverse palatine suture(the one I marked with blue)!?!?? It would fix %90 of this forums users problems which is a recessed maxilla. Why, just why?!!?? Why is there no studies about developing a device like...

looksmax.org