Would Periorbital Fat Grafting Fix my Tung Tung Tung Sahur Eye Area? (Pictures)

[crimson297]

Long-time lurker, first-time poster.

I believe that my most pressing flaws and accompanying fixes are as follows, but I would really appreciate any insight as far as the order to do said procedures and if I have them ranked by ROI appropriately.

1. Periorbital fat grafting

Both upper and lower-eye. I currently have extensive UEE exposure and discoloration + deep tear troughs, which really helps me to Tung Tung Tung Sahurmaxx. However, I notice that when I squint like an idiot it looks substantially healthier. After seeing some great fat-grafting results on the site I am wondering if this alone would be enough to fix my eye area and if this is the #1 ROI procedure for me?

2. Rhinoplasty

Dorsal hump and excessive nasal flare, I think it looks alright from the front and 3/4 angle, but my side profile is poor.

3. Sliding Genioplasty

I believe I have some chin retrusion going on, though I feel like this may be lower priority.

Do I have the right idea? Any other alternative procedures you would suggest? Would I need implants to achieve the eye-area I am going for or would the fat-grafting alone be sufficient?

Of course, I am still working on soft-maxxes as well by getting leaner with Retatrutide, MT-1 to tan, will re-perm (Asian salon botched it jfl), neck training + improve posture, etc.

 

[Saint.]

Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but I think you may need lower lid retraction repair, along with under eye fat grafting, to achieve the lower lid position shown in the photo where you’re squinting.

I could be wrong tho

 

[crimson297]

Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but I think you may need lower lid retraction repair, along with under eye fat grafting, to achieve the lower lid position shown in the photo where you’re squinting.

I could be wrong tho

Ah, I suspect you might be right since I'm not sure just fat grafting alone would be enough for lower-lid support. I'll try and look into it further, thanks for the suggestion.

 

[mistermogsalot]

you are a grown ass man talking bout sum tung tung tung sahur

 

[crimson297]

you are a grown ass man talking bout sum tung tung tung sahur

It got you to click on the post tho, so mission accomplished

 

[mistermogsalot]

 

[LTN]

Long-time lurker, first-time poster.

I believe that my most pressing flaws and accompanying fixes are as follows, but I would really appreciate any insight as far as the order to do said procedures and if I have them ranked by ROI appropriately.

1. Periorbital fat grafting

Both upper and lower-eye. I currently have extensive UEE exposure and discoloration + deep tear troughs, which really helps me to Tung Tung Tung Sahurmaxx. However, I notice that when I squint like an idiot it looks substantially healthier. After seeing some great fat-grafting results on the site I am wondering if this alone would be enough to fix my eye area and if this is the #1 ROI procedure for me?

2. Rhinoplasty

Dorsal hump and excessive nasal flare, I think it looks alright from the front and 3/4 angle, but my side profile is poor.

3. Sliding Genioplasty

I believe I have some chin retrusion going on, though I feel like this may be lower priority.

Do I have the right idea? Any other alternative procedures you would suggest? Would I need implants to achieve the eye-area I am going for or would the fat-grafting alone be sufficient?

Of course, I am still working on soft-maxxes as well by getting leaner with Retatrutide, MT-1 to tan, will re-perm (Asian salon botched it jfl), neck training + improve posture, etc.

1. If it's a bone deficit (negative orbital vector), it's best addressed with an implant. If it's a soft tissue deficit, it's best addressed with undereye fat grafting. If it's both, it's best addressed with both. How do we know which deficits exactly ... we need a 3D CT head scan

2. Nose looks harmonious with your pheno, meaning that best case, the improvement is marginal, worst case it nukes your harmony. I would worry about this last. Your side profile is mostly held back by your lack of brow bone / supraorbital projection and periorbital projection.

3. Chin height looks fine. Should be one of the last things to worry about.

But the most useful advice, you already look like you have strong niche appeal. Probably best to learn how leverage it instead of betting everything on the perfect outcome of a handful of hardmaxxes

 

[LTN]

Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but I think you may need lower lid retraction repair, along with under eye fat grafting, to achieve the lower lid position shown in the photo where you’re squinting.

I could be wrong tho

Also avoid eyelid procedures until you verify/address a potential negative orbital vector. Most uncanny results come from attempting soft tissue work on a negative orbital vector base imo

 

[Mumbai_HTN]

"joined 2021" holyy

 

[Prøphet]

Also avoid eyelid procedures until you verify/address a potential negative orbital vector. Most uncanny results come from attempting soft tissue work on a negative orbital vector base imo

Do you think Supra fat graft would have high roi for him


I have a similar issue with my upper eyelid looking heavy like his

 

[LTN]

Do you think Supra fat graft would have high roi for him


I have a similar issue with my upper eyelid looking heavy like his

The issue is that side profile is extremely overrated for appeal irl, and when it looks good, it gets dominated by forward growth and lower third angularity / light reflection more than anything else.

Also, the brow projection is dominated by the depth of the brow bone shelf more than the fat deposits in the supras in the cases of needing > 2mm of added projection (given that the brow bone looks near flat here), so the answer would be a brow bone implant if anything (opposite of high roi provided the procedure involves literally flapping open half of the face)

 

[Prøphet]

The issue is that side profile is extremely overrated for appeal irl, and when it looks good, it gets dominated by forward growth and lower third angularity / light reflection more than anything else.

Also, the brow projection is dominated by the depth of the brow bone shelf more than the fat deposits in the supras in the cases of needing > 2mm of added projection (given that the brow bone looks near flat here), so the answer would be a brow bone implant if anything (opposite of high roi provided the procedure involves literally flapping open half of the face)

I mean for this

 

[LTN]

I mean for this

View attachment 5314304

Yeah, would help, but nothing crazy by itself. I would consider eyebrow grooming (maybe darkening as well, looks a bit patchy), ptosis repair, and botox brow lowering first to see if it's enough. Issue is that fat grafting the hooding is a one-way door and can give asian hooding if the bone support isn't there, so risky with lower relative award.

Fixing the negative orbital vector would be higher immediate roi ... maybe fat grafting in two stages, first for undereyes and hooding, then a touch up (50% of the grafted undereye fat would die anyway). If it were me, I'd get a 3D CT scan and get supra + infra implants first if there's a bone deficit (kinda looks like there is).

 

[Prøphet]

Yeah, would help, but nothing crazy by itself. I would consider eyebrow grooming (maybe darkening as well, looks a bit patchy), ptosis repair, and botox brow lowering first to see if it's enough. Issue is that fat grafting the hooding is a one-way door and can give asian hooding if the bone support isn't there, so risky with lower relative award.

Fixing the negative orbital vector would be higher immediate roi ... maybe fat grafting in two stages, first for undereyes and hooding, then a touch up (50% of the grafted undereye fat would die anyway). If it were me, I'd get a 3D CT scan and get supra + infra implants first if there's a bone deficit (kinda looks like there is).

Thank you for the knowledge

 

[IDontBlameAnybody]

Fat grafting is great but only shitty thing is that how much fat survives is kind of luck, some people literally hold onto to most of the fat grafted, some only to 50%.

 

[crimson297]

1. If it's a bone deficit (negative orbital vector), it's best addressed with an implant. If it's a soft tissue deficit, it's best addressed with undereye fat grafting. If it's both, it's best addressed with both. How do we know which deficits exactly ... we need a 3D CT head scan

2. Nose looks harmonious with your pheno, meaning that best case, the improvement is marginal, worst case it nukes your harmony. I would worry about this last. Your side profile is mostly held back by your lack of brow bone / supraorbital projection and periorbital projection.

3. Chin height looks fine. Should be one of the last things to worry about.

But the most useful advice, you already look like you have strong niche appeal. Probably best to learn how leverage it instead of betting everything on the perfect outcome of a handful of hardmaxxes

Thanks a ton for the well-thought out responses. Good point regarding negative orbital vector, I took a look at a few posts afterward and believe mine is neutral but with poor fat-pads: https://looksmax.org/threads/orbital-vector-basics-and-importance.821556/

I took another front and side shot in bathroom lighting, and I feel like the malar prominence is neutral? (Photos attached, very bad photographer so angles might not be the best for a breakdown, can retake if needed).

This leads me to believe it may not be a bone issue and could be due to aforementioned fat pad issue, or brows being too high, or ptosis (or some combination). Basically, I would like to get rid of the tired and forlorn/sad appearance I have with a neutral expression, wherein when I smile it immediately improves the eye area substantially due to the lids being hidden/support improved. I'd definitely like to try and get a CT scan sometime in the future for a more definitive idea.

I agree with 2 and 3 being lower priority and don't think they hurt my front profile all that much, it mainly seems to harm my side. Chin does not go past lips, and the appearance of a longer ramus could be beneficial. Also not sure it would actually be worth for me to try and darken + thicken eyebrows, feel like any more would push me into Ben Shapiro territory lol.

 

[BronzeSpartan2]

Long-time lurker, first-time poster.

I believe that my most pressing flaws and accompanying fixes are as follows, but I would really appreciate any insight as far as the order to do said procedures and if I have them ranked by ROI appropriately.

1. Periorbital fat grafting

Both upper and lower-eye. I currently have extensive UEE exposure and discoloration + deep tear troughs, which really helps me to Tung Tung Tung Sahurmaxx. However, I notice that when I squint like an idiot it looks substantially healthier. After seeing some great fat-grafting results on the site I am wondering if this alone would be enough to fix my eye area and if this is the #1 ROI procedure for me?

2. Rhinoplasty

Dorsal hump and excessive nasal flare, I think it looks alright from the front and 3/4 angle, but my side profile is poor.

3. Sliding Genioplasty

I believe I have some chin retrusion going on, though I feel like this may be lower priority.

Do I have the right idea? Any other alternative procedures you would suggest? Would I need implants to achieve the eye-area I am going for or would the fat-grafting alone be sufficient?

Of course, I am still working on soft-maxxes as well by getting leaner with Retatrutide, MT-1 to tan, will re-perm (Asian salon botched it jfl), neck training + improve posture, etc.

You need orbital decompression bro

Don’t go to any surgeon who wants to do medial or floor decompression though

 

[Public Enemy]

Also avoid eyelid procedures until you verify/address a potential negative orbital vector. Most uncanny results come from attempting soft tissue work on a negative orbital vector base imo

Does that count for infra fat grafting aswell? And I thought negative vector is not neccesary a flaw on a guy?

 

[crimson297]

You need orbital decompression bro

Don’t go to any surgeon who wants to do medial or floor decompression though

That surgery has an exceedingly high botch rate relative to other procedures though, I'm not sure it's worth the risk/money/time tbh

 

[BronzeSpartan2]

That surgery has an exceedingly high botch rate relative to other procedures though, I'm not sure it's worth the risk/money/time tbh

(1) Its not as risky as a procedure as you might think. The “botch rate” (you mean complication rate) is high for patients with have Thyroid Eye Disease, and not all complications are botches.

The risk is high when you decompress the medial and floor. When you do lateral decompression (and/or fat) it’s not risky. So you have to be careful with surgeon choice, and ask what technique they would do. To be fair, there are probably only 3 doctors I would trust with doing it

(2) Cost and downtime for recovery aren’t bad.

You have good potential for sure, maybe you could get away with supras and fat grafts to smooth the transition from the lid cheek junction to the infras, but I think your eye area would still hold you back. You can DM me if you want more info

 

[LTN]

(1) Its not as risky as a procedure as you might think. The “botch rate” (you mean complication rate) is high for patients with have Thyroid Eye Disease, and not all complications are botches.

The risk is high when you decompress the medial and floor. When you do lateral decompression (and/or fat) it’s not risky. So you have to be careful with surgeon choice, and ask what technique they would do. To be fair, there are probably only 3 doctors I would trust with doing it

(2) Cost and downtime for recovery aren’t bad.

You have good potential for sure, maybe you could get away with supras and fat grafts to smooth the transition from the lid cheek junction to the infras, but I think your eye area would still hold you back. You can DM me if you want more info

Lol, no one trusts orbital decompression after what happened to Frank ... although the botch rate is on the lower side, if you do get botched, it's completely over as the revision surgery is niche asf.

Also, the operation itself is pulling on the wrong lever. The aesthetics of deepset eyes come mostly from the orbital bone and soft tissue projection as opposed to simply the orbital socket depth (as the indicator of attractiveness itself comes from the theory that deepset eyes were evolutionarily selected as dimorphically attractive as they provided natural eye protection in hunting/combat).

Another thing to consider is that pfl gets significantly reduced, putting a permanent ceiling on how striking the eyes can look.

I'd rather just get an aggressive supraorbital, infra, and brow bone implant than an orbital decompression.

 

[BronzeSpartan2]

Lol, no one trusts orbital decompression after what happened to Frank ... although the botch rate is on the lower side, if you do get botched, it's completely over as the revision surgery is niche asf.

Bro you must be a complete retard if you rule out a surgery after one botch. Botches happen all the time for lots of different surgeries, including jaw surgery.

Does this guy getting botched from bimax mean that no one should trust jaw surgery either?

If you get lateral wall decompression, you won't get enopthalmos like Frank and need orbital reconstruction. The main functional risk is double vision, which is low if you do lateral wall and fat decompression only. Also if you get double vision it can be corrected via strabismus surgery, which has very high rates of success

Also, the operation itself is pulling on the wrong lever. The aesthetics of deepset eyes come mostly from the orbital bone and soft tissue projection as opposed to simply the orbital socket depth (as the indicator of attractiveness itself comes from the theory that deepset eyes were evolutionarily selected as dimorphically attractive as they provided natural eye protection in hunting/combat).

Looks like someone has been binge watching FaceIQ and FaceMetrics and parroting their advice to others on .org lmao. How deepset your eyes look comes from BOTH structural support and the depth of the eye socket. So both are valid approaches to getting a more aesthetic eye area.

PFL does not reduce with orbital decompression, that's a myth spread by Titbot. In his post, he says orbital decompression collapses the floor, which apparently reduces PFL. Even if that was true (which it isn't), then don't go to a surgeon who does floor decompressions? I recommended to OP to get a lateral wall decompression only + maybe fat if needed (no other walls)

I'd rather just get an aggressive supraorbital, infra, and brow bone implant than an orbital decompression.

Aggressive implants is a valid approach for sure, so is OD + implants or in some cases OD alone. Whether huge implants or a conservative OD + normal sized implants lead to the most aesthetic result is up for debate.

(as the indicator of attractiveness itself comes from the theory that deepset eyes were evolutionarily selected as dimorphically attractive as they provided natural eye protection in hunting/combat).

Dnr

 

[hdz_47]

Long-time lurker, first-time poster.

I believe that my most pressing flaws and accompanying fixes are as follows, but I would really appreciate any insight as far as the order to do said procedures and if I have them ranked by ROI appropriately.

1. Periorbital fat grafting

Both upper and lower-eye. I currently have extensive UEE exposure and discoloration + deep tear troughs, which really helps me to Tung Tung Tung Sahurmaxx. However, I notice that when I squint like an idiot it looks substantially healthier. After seeing some great fat-grafting results on the site I am wondering if this alone would be enough to fix my eye area and if this is the #1 ROI procedure for me?

2. Rhinoplasty

Dorsal hump and excessive nasal flare, I think it looks alright from the front and 3/4 angle, but my side profile is poor.

3. Sliding Genioplasty

I believe I have some chin retrusion going on, though I feel like this may be lower priority.

Do I have the right idea? Any other alternative procedures you would suggest? Would I need implants to achieve the eye-area I am going for or would the fat-grafting alone be sufficient?

Of course, I am still working on soft-maxxes as well by getting leaner with Retatrutide, MT-1 to tan, will re-perm (Asian salon botched it jfl), neck training + improve posture, etc.

get under fat eye grabbing and orbital decompression

 

[LTN]

It's not about ruling out a surgery because of one botch. It's the fact that with OD in particular if you're one of the unlucky 1-4% that gets botched, you're irreversibly cooked without feasible room for revision for a supposed "minor cosmetic procedure".

Ngl, I'm not an expert on OD outside of the fact that most of the results I've seen are copes of people trying to fix orbital projection deficiencies (soft tissue and bone related) by shaving down their inner eye sockets without actually having bulging eyes. OP def could use more orbital projection and the middle squint pic doesn't look like bulging eyes to me (but I could be wrong).

Looks like someone has been binge watching FaceIQ and FaceMetrics and parroting their advice to others on .org lmao

I don't even know these guys. I joined 2022 and I've seen plenty of OD results since then.

If you can morph him with an OD vs him with better orbital projection, I'd be more convinced. To make it easier, just show a before and after where an OD is done ... guarantee 99% of the time, they would have looked better with fat grafting, lowerlid retraction, and orbital (supra, infra) implants instead (the side profile especially).

 

[crimson297]

It's not about ruling out a surgery because of one botch. It's the fact that with OD in particular if you're one of the unlucky 1-4% that gets botched, you're irreversibly cooked without feasible room for revision for a supposed "minor cosmetic procedure".

Ngl, I'm not an expert on OD outside of the fact that most of the results I've seen are copes of people trying to fix orbital projection deficiencies (soft tissue and bone related) by shaving down their inner eye sockets without actually having bulging eyes. OP def could use more orbital projection and the middle squint pic doesn't look like bulging eyes to me (but I could be wrong).


I don't even know these guys. I joined 2022 and I've seen plenty of OD results since then.

If you can morph him with an OD vs him with better orbital projection, I'd be more convinced. To make it easier, just show a before and after where an OD is done ... guarantee 99% of the time, they would have looked better with fat grafting, lowerlid retraction, and orbital (supra, infra) implants instead (the side profile especially).

Thanks for the write-ups, has been educational. I am leaning more on the side of soft-tissue changes +/- implants over OD, as to your point, even though the odds of getting botched are low the risk/reward just doesn't seem worth it to me personally.

Would you mind taking a look at these side profile shots? Would this be considered neutral orbital vector?

When I feel in between my bone and lower eyelid it basically feels like a hollow space/indentation (which is easily visible based on the dark pigmentation underneath) with 0 fat particles, just skin and bone.

I am very tempted to go for the first round of fat grafting both supra and infra, but it sounds like you would suggest implants (particularly supra) first to provide scaffolding? Based on these shots do you think it would be necessary or can I likely proceed with fat grafting without feeling like I'm skipping a step by omitting to do eyelid reconstruction/implants?

 

[BronzeSpartan2]

It's not about ruling out a surgery because of one botch. It's the fact that with OD in particular if you're one of the unlucky 1-4% that gets botched, you're irreversibly cooked without feasible room for revision for a supposed "minor cosmetic procedure".

Ngl, I'm not an expert on OD outside of the fact that most of the results I've seen are copes of people trying to fix orbital projection deficiencies (soft tissue and bone related) by shaving down their inner eye sockets without actually having bulging eyes. OP def could use more orbital projection and the middle squint pic doesn't look like bulging eyes to me (but I could be wrong).


I don't even know these guys. I joined 2022 and I've seen plenty of OD results since then.

If you can morph him with an OD vs him with better orbital projection, I'd be more convinced. To make it easier, just show a before and after where an OD is done ... guarantee 99% of the time, they would have looked better with fat grafting, lowerlid retraction, and orbital (supra, infra) implants instead (the side profile especially).

You are wrong. I literally repeated so many times to OP that don’t get a medial or floor decompression (which are the inner walls of the eye sockets).

The 1-4% risk of double vision is for Thyroid Eye Disease. These people have inflamed fat, extraocular muscle enlargement and also need bigger decompressions so obviously the risk for OP wouldn’t be the same or for anyone else with normal thyroid function.

And anyway you’re also wrong about what happens if you get botched. Frank Tufano had enopthalmos and double vision. Enopthalmos is very hard to correct, it’s like an orbital fracture. The chance of someone getting this if they get a lateral wall decompression is extremely low, since you’re shaving the outer wall of the eye sockets, not the inner walls.

Also, it is extremely unlikely for a non-TED patient to get persistent double vision from a lateral wall decompression, but it’s easier to correct than double vision that comes from medial or floor decompressions.

The risks of orbital decompression is very technique and surgeon dependent. As I’ve said multiple times, it’s much lower when you do a lateral wall decompression + fat.

I agree though in general it is a risky procedure and there’s probably about 3 surgeons in the world who I’d trust with doing it.

 

[BronzeSpartan2]

Thanks for the write-ups, has been educational. I am leaning more on the side of soft-tissue changes +/- implants over OD, as to your point, even though the odds of getting botched are low the risk/reward just doesn't seem worth it to me personally.

Would you mind taking a look at these side profile shots? Would this be considered neutral orbital vector?

When I feel in between my bone and lower eyelid it basically feels like a hollow space/indentation (which is easily visible based on the dark pigmentation underneath) with 0 fat particles, just skin and bone.

I am very tempted to go for the first round of fat grafting both supra and infra, but it sounds like you would suggest implants (particularly supra) first to provide scaffolding? Based on these shots do you think it would be necessary or can I likely proceed with fat grafting without feeling like I'm skipping a step by omitting to do eyelid reconstruction/implants?

But, looking again at OP’s photos, I admit I think I’m wrong. He probably isn’t an OD case.

It’s worth noting this guy has a very unusual profile where his infras have good projection but the stepoff from the lid cheek junction to the infras is not smooth at all.

Regardless I definitely think standard infras wouldn’t be the right approach. This guy basically needs the saddle of infras only, with no malar projection lmao.

He may be able to fix his TTS (Tung Tung Sahur) eye area using fat grafts or filler to the LCJ and upper eyelids. It might be that OP’s eyes look prominent due to a lack of orbital fat around his eyes, in combination with his lower eyelid retraction.

If i was OP I would consult with a few oculoplastic surgeons to see what they say. It’s definitely worth getting a few opinions for an unusual case like his