12 tooth smile is an unmoggable trait. Swallow the smilepill.

[Silver]

@Silver Just to be sure, when you mention posterior expansion with SARPE, you mean more expansion to the very last molars than the intermediate ones? I've always thought that SARPE expanded the entire smile, like this:

Lots of of posterior expansion would be needed for a smile like Rodrigo Guirao's from what I can understand, it seems very wide in every direction, posterior and anteriorly, very full and not "flat" like mine or most people's smile:

My goal is to have that kind of full and wide, not just wide but flat smile. Again thanks for the help bro.

Just seen that I completely ignored your question, the SARPE device, the RPE, come in different variants with different arm types of how many teeth they anchor on to. Usually they anchor onto the 2nd molar on each side and one of the premolars like this,

Since it's anchored in the middle/posterior part of the maxilla, you will still see expansion here but since the SARPE design is flawed which Dr. Kasey Li has proven several times you will fail to see the PNS expansion that you are looking for to get that desired 12 teeth smile, imo. Obviously I could be wrong but from what I know this would be the outcome.

 

[Silver]

You sir are an angel, thank you for sharing such valuable info!
I've googled Kasey Li and found this on his website, the result mimics the type of smile I posted (Rodrigo Guirao), with that full, not flat arch:
View attachment 1768078

Do you know if there's an equivalent to EASE for the lower palate? Or MSDO will suffice?

Will try to find an EASE practicioner in Spain or Europe, if I can't I will go to Kasey Li for it. Do you know aprox. how much he charges for EASE? In Spain SARPE is around 3500€-5000€, and MSDO is around that same price too. Again, thanks for the detailed explanation, you are really helping me a lot.

From what I know, there is nothing equivalent to EASE for the lower palate, I am lacking knowledge in this department as the lower jaw has never been a problem for myself therefore I have not researched it for expansion types.

From what I know the Dr. in question charges upwards of 30K USD for EASE, it is incredibly pricy but he also seems to have a monopoly on it, I am not aware of anyone else who performs it. I read on youtube about some german practitioners providing EASE but it's rather fuzzy as I haven't heard of anyone having it done in Germany by these supposed practitioners.

 

[NegativeNorwood]

Just seen that I completely ignored your question, the SARPE device, the RPE, come in different variants with different arm types of how many teeth they anchor on to. Usually they anchor onto the 2nd molar on each side and one of the premolars like this,

View attachment 1768080

Since it's anchored in the middle/posterior part of the maxilla, you will still see expansion here but since the SARPE design is flawed which Dr. Kasey Li has proven several times you will fail to see the PNS expansion that you are looking for to get that desired 12 teeth smile, imo. Obviously I could be wrong but from what I know this would be the outcome.

Seeing the images you provided before, and the RPE device itself I think you are correct. It wouldn't make sense from a mechanical point of view since the RPE device doesn't push that posterior part as much as the anterior one, which would end up in a non proportional expansion, like the cases you posted, and as such, a wide but seemingly flat smile (which makes sense because the posterior part of the maxilla got much less widening) IMO.
I can't thank you enough for this, super valuable input and completes what I thought, explains why I've never seen any SARPE patient with a smile like Guirao or Vito Basso...now it makes complete sense.

 

[NegativeNorwood]

From what I know, there is nothing equivalent to EASE for the lower palate, I am lacking knowledge in this department as the lower jaw has never been a problem for myself therefore I have not researched it for expansion types.

From what I know the Dr. in question charges upwards of 30K USD for EASE, it is incredibly pricy but he also seems to have a monopoly on it, I am not aware of anyone else who performs it. I read on youtube about some german practitioners providing EASE but it's rather fuzzy as I haven't heard of anyone having it done in Germany by these supposed practitioners.

Ouch 30k usd!! fuark
Going to do my research on those german practicioners and try to know if they have friendlier prices more in line with european budgets, I can't afford 30k usd just for the upper palate, I'm going to polish google translator and use english to consult with them once I can. Also will machine gun with questions every ortho in a 500 mile radius about EASE jfl.

 

[Silver]

Ouch 30k usd!! fuark
Going to do my research on those german practicioners and try to know if they have friendlier prices more in line with european budgets, I can't afford 30k usd just for the upper palate, I'm going to polish google translator and use english to consult with them once I can. Also will machine gun with questions every ortho in a 500 mile radius about EASE jfl.

You seem like a great guy, I hope you find your answers and manage to ascend. Best of luck!

 

[NegativeNorwood]

You seem like a great guy, I hope you find your answers and manage to ascend. Best of luck!

Thanks! You too, hope you ascend from Gigachad to Terachad bro, best luck!

 

[Jade]

@NegativeNorwood I didn't know you had this going on as well. You said you posted pictures of your smile?

So you are thinking of SARPE and Implants too?

 

[NegativeNorwood]

@NegativeNorwood I didn't know you had this going on as well. You said you posted pictures of your smile?

So you are thinking of SARPE and Implants too?

Yes, read this thread and you'll find my smile pic and my CT scan. The last posts about EASE as an alternative to SARPE are something fascinating, and I'm going to research it and consult as much as I can.
Fixing my smile is and was always my first priority, implants will come later.

 

[Jade]

Yes, read this thread and you'll find my smile pic and my CT scan. The last posts about EASE as an alternative to SARPE are something fascinating, and I'm going to research it and consult as much as I can.
Fixing my smile is and was always my first priority, implants will come later.

Ok. I see it now. I missed it somehow.

 

[Jade]

Man, that @Silver is a great guy.

Get your plan together exactly as you want it, and if you want, we can shop your case for different surgeons. But you have to devise the best plan possible because different surgeons will offer you different solutions.

I guess what I am saying is that you're right. Do as much research as possible. @NegativeNorwood

 

[Deleted member 2729]

Depends on the person. Have you seen my CT scan here?

No

 

[NegativeNorwood]

No

It's on the same post you replied, I've also quoted it for you to see it.

 

[Deleted member 2729]

It's on the same post you replied, I've also quoted it for you to see it.

you have any signs of sfs?

 

[NegativeNorwood]

you have any signs of sfs?

Nope, no stunted midface, no short gonial angle and no jaw recession. I'm also mesocephalic.

 

[Deleted member 2729]

Nope, no stunted midface, no short gonial angle and no jaw recession. I'm also mesocephalic.

interesting case. what is your psl?

 

[NegativeNorwood]

interesting case. what is your psl?

Can PM you a pic if you want, I think my PSL is 4-4.25/8 with a resting face, and lowers by at least 1 point when smiling IMO.

 

[Deleted member 2729]

Can PM you a pic if you want, I think my PSL is 4-4.25/8 with a resting face, and lowers by at least 1 point when smiling IMO.

yea I would be interested

 

[NegativeNorwood]

yea I would be interested

Done

 

[ChristianChad]

@Silver Do you know if in theory similar results to EASE could be achieved with a surgeon who has agreed to research it and uses similar cuts and a Transpalatal Distractor (TD/TPD)? Can you even ask a real MaxFac to research a surgery they don't "specialise" in/haven't performed and will it be practical to perform it or is it too risky? Thanks.

 

[Silver]

@Silver Do you know if in theory similar results to EASE could be achieved with a surgeon who has agreed to research it and uses similar cuts and a Transpalatal Distractor (TD/TPD)? Can you even ask a real MaxFac to research a surgery they don't "specialise" in/haven't performed and will it be practical to perform it or is it too risky? Thanks.

The TPD looks very similar in it's design to the RPE KLS Martin that is used in EASE patients. They are both bone-borne and extrude the pressure into the maxilla laterally. I think it's essential that devices only extrude the pressure into the maxilla and this way in combination with surgical assistance you can achieve parallel expansion between the ANS and PNS, this is essential for both the 12 teeth smile and for maximizing the breathing gains.

The problem with having it done with a MaxFac who isn't familiar to it and have never performed it is lack of experience. From experience and past procedures is where you commit mistakes. It's from mistakes which you then learn, and from there you prevent these mistakes to recur in the future.

Just placing the device a few mm wrong, (too far down, too far up, too far back, too far forward) can break the result. This is something you learn with time, through performing several of these procedures. You also learn the optimal turning protocol for best gains. There is no manual for how many times you should turn the devices. This is something your Dr. is supposed to come up for you. If he has no past cases you will be his first, basically their guinea-pig.

Unless mentored by someone who frequently uses Transpalatal distractor I think it will be very rough to expect a result that is in line with your expectations.

 

[ChristianChad]

OP have you heard about DOME? What do you think of it?
Just from photos it looks very similar to EASE so I wondered if you've come across it. Maybe DOME was developed by the same persons as EASE, and EASE is probably an "offshoot" so they have a monopoly on their particular version/technique of it. Or maybe EASE is just a type of DOME which has been "copyrighted".

Here is an expansion with DOME, the expansion looks only very minimally cone-shaped or completely even, I can't see it well.

Here expansion is much more significantly cone shaped because they used a bone-tooth borne expander for this DOME

Link to a paper with lots of general info on DOME and where I found the image above, they didn't touch on why they used a bone-tooth borne device:

Spoiler: pdf link to the paper

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1389945719301881/pdfft?crasolve=1&r=73e54aa9ccbd733f&ts=1661105071663&rtype=https&vrr=UKN&redir=UKN&redir_fr=UKN&redir_arc=UKN&vhash=UKN&host=d3d3LnNjaWVuY2VkaXJlY3QuY29t&iv=2bfd7c0ffde672e54811465e5f037a6a&token=613138633037316434346131363763383931373538646164636566346631626638373336373930626162353336616231343366383236383865343562386463643964613339383864343236346238303336343a353233326664303737366631393565623665633638663437&text=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&original=3f636173615f746f6b656e3d7239586e694b3957474151414141414125334161466b395075705852776554374e59635a336778324d53612d596b4a334a4e547647737374494655393341506c715a6863576646475f594e41725564447331333342346d675852567041266d64353d6365323564303736393562623437306134653635353637633863346630366530267069643d312d73322e302d53313338393934353731393330313838312d6d61696e2e706466

Ideally they use a Transpalatal Distractor (honestly I don't know yet what this expander device is called, I think it's a TPD) like that on the post expansion DOME case on the right.

Spoiler: .

(IDK much info about the treatment of the right pic in the image above, could be bone-tooth borne expansion but they removed the arm stabilisers for the pic, nonetheless it looks very posteriorly expanded and this particular image was used to show the difference between bone-tooth borne expanders and DOME, so I strongly assume the device used in the treatment is like it's seen in the photo without any arms connecting to the teeth)

And as seen here

The .pdf paper I linked earlier which I skimmed through they talk about the planning before expansion with 3D scans etc. and I wonder if TPD is used for very narrow/very high maxillas. I haven't read anything outright supporting this and this is just a thought of mine, because I don't know why they didn't seem to exclusively use a TPD.

I think EASE with Dr. Kasey Li the device usage for expansion is exclusively something like TPD/RPE device with no contact with the teeth



https://entokey.com/distraction-ost...e-for-adult-obstructive-sleep-apnea-patients/

Jan 2020

Orthognathic surgical procedures on non-growing patients with maxillary transverse deficiency

Abstract The treatment of maxillary transverse deficiency in post-pubertal patients has been an area of disagreement among orthodontists. Much of the controversy is over the timing of when it is ap…

pocketdentistry.com

 

[hiwasuwor]

I have straight teeth but nobody can see them
because I never open mouth and always akwardly smile like a british Person

 

[NegativeNorwood]

OP have you heard about DOME? What do you think of it?
Just from photos it looks very similar to EASE so I wondered if you've come across it. Maybe DOME was developed by the same persons as EASE, and EASE is probably an "offshoot" so they have a monopoly on their particular version/technique of it. Or maybe EASE is just a type of DOME which has been "copyrighted".


View attachment 1832259
Here is an expansion with DOME, the expansion looks only very minimally cone-shaped or completely even, I can't see it well.


View attachment 1832240
Here expansion is much more significantly cone shaped because they used a bone-tooth borne expander for this DOME

Link to a paper with lots of general info on DOME and where I found the image above, they didn't touch on why they used a bone-tooth borne device:

Spoiler: pdf link to the paper

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1389945719301881/pdfft?crasolve=1&r=73e54aa9ccbd733f&ts=1661105071663&rtype=https&vrr=UKN&redir=UKN&redir_fr=UKN&redir_arc=UKN&vhash=UKN&host=d3d3LnNjaWVuY2VkaXJlY3QuY29t&iv=2bfd7c0ffde672e54811465e5f037a6a&token=613138633037316434346131363763383931373538646164636566346631626638373336373930626162353336616231343366383236383865343562386463643964613339383864343236346238303336343a353233326664303737366631393565623665633638663437&text=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&original=3f636173615f746f6b656e3d7239586e694b3957474151414141414125334161466b395075705852776554374e59635a336778324d53612d596b4a334a4e547647737374494655393341506c715a6863576646475f594e41725564447331333342346d675852567041266d64353d6365323564303736393562623437306134653635353637633863346630366530267069643d312d73322e302d53313338393934353731393330313838312d6d61696e2e706466

View attachment 1832234
Ideally they use a Transpalatal Distractor (honestly I don't know yet what this expander device is called, I think it's a TPD) like that on the post expansion DOME case on the right.

Spoiler: .

(IDK much info about the treatment of the right pic in the image above, could be bone-tooth borne expansion but they removed the arm stabilisers for the pic, nonetheless it looks very posteriorly expanded and this particular image was used to show the difference between bone-tooth borne expanders and DOME, so I strongly assume the device used in the treatment is like it's seen in the photo without any arms connecting to the teeth)

And as seen here
View attachment 1832236


The .pdf paper I linked earlier which I skimmed through they talk about the planning before expansion with 3D scans etc. and I wonder if TPD is used for very narrow/very high maxillas. I haven't read anything outright supporting this and this is just a thought of mine, because I don't know why they didn't seem to exclusively use a TPD.

I think EASE with Dr. Kasey Li the device usage for expansion is exclusively something like TPD/RPE device with no contact with the teeth



https://entokey.com/distraction-ost...e-for-adult-obstructive-sleep-apnea-patients/

Jan 2020
View attachment 1832301

Orthognathic surgical procedures on non-growing patients with maxillary transverse deficiency

Abstract The treatment of maxillary transverse deficiency in post-pubertal patients has been an area of disagreement among orthodontists. Much of the controversy is over the timing of when it is ap…

pocketdentistry.com

My understanding on all of this is limited, but it seems that the key factor is using a much more powerful expander than the ones normally used. This in theory avoids the cone shaped expansion. I've found one even more powerful than EASE, called "Power Expander", that is custom made for the patient using the CBCT scan.

Power Expander - 3D by OrthoLab

3d.ortholab.es

Image is in spanish but basically says it can be used for a MARPE or for a SARPE, depending mostly on patient's age and treatment protocol. The expansion is the same in every case due to the device being very powerful and expanding evenly compared to the other devices. After seeing this, EASE seems to be a type of MARPE that just uses a more powerful than average expander, same with DOME.
Makes sense because @Sergio-OMS, who is a legit surgeon, said that the differences between SMARPE/SARME/SARPE/DOME/EASE were pretty insignificant to him:

Don’t mew if you plan on getting MSE

Disclaimer: I am not an orthotropics expert. Take this post with a grain of salt. Why shouldn’t you mew if you’re going to get MSE in the future? Mewing expands the palate by pushing the teeth farther apart, but it doesn’t expand the bone of the maxilla. On the contrary, MSE expands the lower...

looksmax.org

 

[ChristianChad]

I'll never have an ideal smile, but my crossbite will be fixed in a few months.

Progress so far using invisalign.

you need palate expansion

 

[DyingHope]

you need palate expansion

Too late, a surgeon would maybe be happy to try though for a hefty fee. I'll just finish getting my bite aligned and live with it now.

 

[Deleted member 21297]

Literally the first thing normies notice.
Even in Photofeeler, there's always someone that comments, irrespectibly of how good looking you are: "would prefer if you were smiling".

This is what a winner smile looks like:

Notice how successful, approachable, friendly and confident he looks at first glance, legit can't lose at life.

Look at this brutal comparison between someone with a proper, 12 tooth smile and someone with a narrow, 6 tooth smile and large buccal corridors:

SARPE (widens the upper palate) and MSDO (widens the lower palate and chin) + braces are the way to go from a narrow, cuck smile with large visible buccal corridors to a winner, main character 12 tooth smile without visible buccal corridors.

Tagging some chads.org members

@RealSurgerymax
@UglyGod360 @

@

@Acromegaly_Chad @

@

@Gaia262 @

@

@Xangsane @

@

@Korea @

@

@TheLordMadness @

@

@Amnesia @

@P@Preston @

@

@Prettyboy @

@

@Looksmax25 @

@

@ForeverRecession
@tyronelite
@Leonardo DiCaprio
@Eduardo DOV
@eduardkoopman
Reply
Report

i have a posterior open bite as well as a narrow palette so i dont have this 12 teeth smile either i always wondered why my smile was so shitty

 

[ChristianChad]

Too late, a surgeon would maybe be happy to try though for a hefty fee. I'll just finish getting my bite aligned and live with it now.

Damn. You could really use it, just from the photo I can tell you have a very narrow v-shaped palate, and probably narrow lips from the outside from the lack of hard tissue support. Have you ever measured Inter-molar width?

Do you have breathing problems or sleep apnea by chance? You could most likely get it covered by insurance if you do especially if you live in the UK. And age shouldn't really matter if you do SARPE.

 

[DyingHope]

Damn. You could really use it, just from the photo I can tell you have a very narrow v-shaped palate, and probably narrow lips from the outside from the lack of hard tissue support. Have you ever measured Inter-molar width?

Do you have breathing problems or sleep apnea by chance? You could most likely get it covered by insurance if you do especially if you live in the UK. And age shouldn't really matter if you do SARPE.

I don't have breathing problems, my palate is V-shaped though but is starting to look more U-shaped now. You can see the progress so far.

 

[vaninskybird]

the girl on the right is so fucking cute, fuck the alien on the left

 

[ChristianChad]

the girl on the right is so fucking cute, fuck the alien on the left

Kys if you think underdeveloped women are attractive. Real life isn't your anime series, bitch boy

I don't have breathing problems, my palate is V-shaped though but is starting to look more U-shaped now. You can see the progress so far.

They do look straighter but don't expect any major change. Invisilign won't give you a spacious palate with a wide dental arch.

 

[NegativeNorwood]

the girl on the right is so fucking cute, fuck the alien on the left

The woman on the left is way more attractive than the 6 tooth rat tier smile kid on the right. Stop trolling.

 

[vaninskybird]

The woman on the left is way more attractive than the 6 tooth rat tier smile kid on the right. Stop trolling.

Kys if you think underdeveloped women are attractive. Real life isn't your anime series, bitch boy

are you fucking niggers blind?

in what deranged world is the alien on the left more attractive than the angel on the right?
who tf cares about your autistic smile length
also that angel eye area fogs that gay alien bitch who also looks like she has strabismus to mumbai and andromeda

bUt muH sMiLe, it isnt 12 tooth
what being on psl forums 24/7 does to a mf

 

[NegativeNorwood]

are you fucking niggers blind?
View attachment 1841103
in what deranged world is the alien on the left more attractive than the angel on the right?
who tf cares about your autistic smile length
also that angel eye area fogs that gay alien bitch who also looks like she has strabismus to mumbai and andromeda

bUt muH sMiLe, it isnt 12 tooth
what being on psl forums 24/7 does to a mf

Keep coping, she looks like this

 

[vaninskybird]

Keep coping, she looks like this

enjoy your old looking gay alien foids

 

[Racky]

Indeed it is. Look at this absolute bestiality of a blackpill:

My current, cuck smile:

Goal palate width post SARPE and MSDO (but with straighter teeth than him, of course):



Absolutely brutal difference. This is also the trait that is most noticed in real life and in motion. Thank god this shit is fixable.
PS: I've measured my intermolar width using digital calipers, the same method Mike Mew used here:


My pic is with mouth as open as it can be and a bit lens distorted due to phone's back camera.
I've got 34,7mm for the lower arch and 36,7mm for the upper arch, which is "average" but I have wide zygos and a narrow jaw, so it looks quite bad as you can see.
I think Vito Basso might have in between 45-50mm intermolar width for both arches (and also looks amazing because wide jaw and wider mouth compliment his wide zygos too, unlike me).

Mike Mew is the only person I have seen recommend you measure IMW like this using lingual sides.
In all other sources they describe IMW as the distance between the buccal cusp tips.
This is confusing.

 

[Silver]

Mike Mew is the only person I have seen recommend you measure IMW like this using lingual sides.
In all other sources they describe IMW as the distance between the buccal cusp tips.
This is confusing.

It's more commonly known as "McNamara width" within the ortho world. Don't know if it has other names but I believe it's from the orthodontist James A. McNamara where this way of measuring stems from.

 

[randomvanish]

 

[Racky]

Mike Mew is the only person I have seen recommend you measure IMW like this using lingual sides.
In all other sources they describe IMW as the distance between the buccal cusp tips.
This is confusing.

It's more commonly known as "McNamara width" within the ortho world. Don't know if it has other names but I believe it's from the orthodontist James A. McNamara where this way of measuring stems from.

@AscendingHero

 

[kriz44]

You sir are an angel, thank you for sharing such valuable info!
I've googled Kasey Li and found this on his website, the result mimics the type of smile I posted (Rodrigo Guirao), with that full, not flat arch:
View attachment 1768078

Do you know if there's an equivalent to EASE for the lower palate? Or MSDO will suffice?

Will try to find an EASE practicioner in Spain or Europe, if I can't I will go to Kasey Li for it. Do you know aprox. how much he charges for EASE? In Spain SARPE is around 3500€-5000€, and MSDO is around that same price too. Again, thanks for the detailed explanation, you are really helping me a lot.

What are the main differences between SARPE, MSDO and EASE?

 

[Deleted member 17872]

First guy is very tradiotionally attractive

looks like a fucking hedge fund manager

Sadly he’s polish tho.

 

[NegativeNorwood]

What are the main differences between SARPE, MSDO and EASE?

EASE can give you cheekbone and midface expansion, SARPE is only for increasing palate width. SARPE is better and more predictable for adults than EASE. Both need surgical assistance in people over 16 yo either way.
MSDO expands the lower jaw to match a wider upper jaw, increasing chin width in the process.

 

[kriz44]

EASE can give you cheekbone and midface expansion, SARPE is only for increasing palate width. SARPE is better and more predictable for adults than EASE. Both need surgical assistance in people over 16 yo either way.
MSDO expands the lower jaw to match a wider upper jaw, increasing chin width in the process.

Can I PM you a photo?

 

[LowTrust]

Look at this brutal comparison between someone with a proper, 12 tooth smile and someone with a narrow, 6 tooth smile and large buccal corridors:

just LOL at your IQ, second girl fogs to suicide

 

[NegativeNorwood]

just LOL at your IQ, second girl fogs to suicide

Retard detected, opinion rejected.
Second girl looks like this u filthy animal

 

[LowTrust]

Retard detected, opinion rejected.
Second girl looks like this u filthy animal

first girl looks like creepy robot, second looks closer to cute JB therefore she wins, if you don't agree then I am sorry but it is over for your future kids genes

 

[NegativeNorwood]

first girl looks like creepy robot, second looks closer to cute JB therefore she wins, if you don't agree then I am sorry but it is over for your future kids genes

First girl looks like a woman with a proper wide smile, the second like a 12 year old with a very subpar, narrow smile.
With your tastes, your future kids are going to look like a hamster (if you manage to reproduce, big if), so mind your own business, imbecile.

 

[LowTrust]

First girl looks like a woman with a proper wide smile, the second like a 12 year old with a very subpar, narrow smile.
With your tastes, your future kids are going to look like a hamster (if you manage to reproduce, big if), so mind your own business, imbecile.

exactly what I am saying, first girl looks like a used up creepy roastie, second girl looks like a 12 year old girl whom obviously mogs sex appeal wise, I don't even have to explain myself here because it's so painfully obvious

 

[AscendingHero]

My understanding on all of this is limited, but it seems that the key factor is using a much more powerful expander than the ones normally used. This in theory avoids the cone shaped expansion. I've found one even more powerful than EASE, called "Power Expander", that is custom made for the patient using the CBCT scan.

Power Expander - 3D by OrthoLab

3d.ortholab.es

Image is in spanish but basically says it can be used for a MARPE or for a SARPE, depending mostly on patient's age and treatment protocol. The expansion is the same in every case due to the device being very powerful and expanding evenly compared to the other devices. After seeing this, EASE seems to be a type of MARPE that just uses a more powerful than average expander, same with DOME.
Makes sense because @Sergio-OMS, who is a legit surgeon, said that the differences between SMARPE/SARME/SARPE/DOME/EASE were pretty insignificant to him:

Don’t mew if you plan on getting MSE

Disclaimer: I am not an orthotropics expert. Take this post with a grain of salt. Why shouldn’t you mew if you’re going to get MSE in the future? Mewing expands the palate by pushing the teeth farther apart, but it doesn’t expand the bone of the maxilla. On the contrary, MSE expands the lower...

looksmax.org

So does power expander produce the same suture distarticulating , bone borne effects as MSE but stronger?

Im torn if i should pursue TPD or Power expander, for maximum bone borne zygo flaring expansion

Also would alar cinch hinder breathing gains?

 

[NegativeNorwood]

So does power expander produce the same suture distarticulating , bone borne effects as MSE but stronger?

Im torn if i should pursue TPD or Power expander, for maximum bone borne zygo flaring expansion

Also would alar cinch hinder breathing gains?

MSE is a type of MARPE, and needs surgical assistance to be effective in people over 16 years old.
The Power Expander device is based af, because it's custom made using your CBCT scan and is designed to be as powerful as possible, to make the expansion even and not cone shaped like happens with weaker devices. The Power Expander + self ligating braces should give you a Mila Kunis/Rodrigo Guirao type of smile (very wide posteriorly, not just anteriorly), which was something impossible with the weaker expansion devices:

Notice how their smiles are wide from the very first molars, not just from the front. That's the ideal and where the weaker expansion devices fail.

The Power Expander mogs the TPD because it's custom made and even stronger.

No idea if the alar cinch would hinder breathing gains or not.

 

[AscendingHero]

MSE is a type of MARPE, and needs surgical assistance to be effective in people over 16 years old.
The Power Expander device is based af, because it's custom made using your CBCT scan and is designed to be as powerful as possible, to make the expansion even and not cone shaped like happens with weaker devices. The Power Expander + self ligating braces should give you a Mila Kunis/Rodrigo Guirao type of smile (very wide posteriorly, not just anteriorly), which was something impossible with the weaker expansion devices:

Notice how their smiles are wide from the very first molars, not just from the front. That's the ideal and where the weaker expansion devices fail.

The Power Expander mogs the TPD because it's custom made and even stronger.

No idea if the alar cinch would hinder breathing gains or not.

Fuark

Appreciate the high quality reply mate.

Why self-ligating braces? What are your views on Damon braces on even Invisalign?

Notice how their smiles are wide from the very first molars, not just from the front.

Is this what you mean when you say the smiles are "full" and wide, not just flat and wide?

The Power Expander mogs the TPD because it's custom made and even stronger.

Does it induce zygomatic flaring and midfacial bone borne expansion?

What are the Power expander prices like?

Power Expander - 3D by OrthoLab

3d.ortholab.es

Besides this main page, couldnt find much published info by Dr. Varela, does he only operate in Spain?

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I'm a bit worried about the lower jaw, maybe at my age slowed expansion would allow the mandible to widen.

MSDO is invasive, gives a u-shaped jaw due to its expansion method and cuts and would take even more time

IMDO is nice but doesn't deal too much with the posterior jaw and seems more forward growth (mandible) oriented.

I don't know if orthodontics and tooth tipping would be enough for 12-18mm+ expansion , that i'd like to undergo