30yr old redditor on tretinoin for 2yrs. Glowing skin.

[Mayorga2.0]

View attachment 1636145

whole study pls, such screenshotted excerpts add nothing of value

 

[MrRubiks]

Which one specifically these are different research papers complied into one post.

Whichever you think would be the most informative, if it's not too much trouble. I appreciate it.

 

[House Lannister]

JFL glowing skin somehow failos this nigga

 

[Deleted member 16834]

whole study pls, such screenshotted excerpts add nothing of value

Systemic Absorption of Retinoic Acid​

Thomas J. Franz &
Paul A. Lehman

Remember the vitamin a content acquired through food HAS to be converted into retinoic acid. Be it fortified milk or eggs, the retinol content has to be converted by the body into active form (retinoic acid).

Meaning you can’t extrapolate 14 ug/day and do a false comparison with foods with higher retinol content as latter isn’t going directly into your body in the active form

 

[PURE ARYAN GENETICS]

There’s talking about hypervitaminosis a. It’s induced by accutane more strongly than retin a bc accutane is ingested. But studies have shown that even retin a has a absorption rate of 1-8%. Meaning retin a will cause the same sides as accutane but 12 times slower.

So if a person noticed hypervitaminosis a from accutane after 2 years, he/she will notices the same effects from retin-a after 24 years of usage.

Essentially buying time b4 your liver is full and ready to fuck up your body.

Also vitamin a is fat soluble so there is no escape. You have to bear the side effects

can you stop posting this retarded shit that I've debunked 20 times already?

 

[Deleted member 16834]

can you stop posting this retarded shit that I've debunked 20 times already?

You haven’t debunked anything. Last I remember you went quiet….

Absolutely silent

 

[PURE ARYAN GENETICS]

JFL glowing skin somehow failos this nigga

that's because he's a soft bitch boy

 

[Mayorga2.0]

Systemic Absorption of Retinoic Acid​

Thomas J. Franz &
Paul A. Lehman

View attachment 1636262


Remember the vitamin a content acquired through food HAS to be converted into retinoic acid. Be it fortified milk or eggs, the retinol content has to be converted by the body into active form (retinoic acid).

Meaning you can’t extrapolate 14 ug/day and do a false comparison with foods with higher retinol content as latter isn’t going directly into your body in its active form

14 micrograms appears to be negligible as "the Recommended Dietary Allowance (RDA) for men and women is 900 and 700 μg retinol activity equivalents (RAE)/day, respectively"

 

[Deleted member 16834]

14 micrograms appears to be negligible as "the Recommended Dietary Allowance (RDA) for men and women is 900 and 700 μg retinol activity equivalents (RAE)/day, respectively"

 

[Mayorga2.0]

View attachment 1636288

give info on the conversion rate, that is, what is the retinol equivalent of 14micrograms of ATRA.

edit: found something myself - it appears that a rough estimate would be 10:1 retinol to ATRA (huge caveat is that there is not much data on this and it's going to be tissue specific ofc), that means that 14micrograms of ATRA is roughly equivalent to 140micrograms of retinol, way below the average amount that is consumed daily.

 

[Deleted member 16834]

give info on the conversion rate, that is, what is the retinol equivalent of 14micrograms of ATRA.

edit: found something myself - it appears that a rough estimate would be 10:1 retinol to ATRA (huge caveat is that there is not much data on this and it's going to be tissue specific ofc), that means that 14micrograms of ATRA is roughly equivalent to 140micrograms of retinol, way below the average amount that is consumed daily.

Retinoids: active molecules influencing skin structure formation in cosmetic and dermatological treatments​

Malwina Zasada and Elżbieta Budzisz

​

“Rough estimate”- wrong. Let’s not cut out the part where it says no one has clinically demonstrated the conversion rate.

 

[Deleted member 16834]

“More research needed”


Let’s not even factor in the strength (0.025% vs .1%), carrier absorption rate (higher absorption with moisturizers)

 

[Mayorga]

Retinoids: active molecules influencing skin structure formation in cosmetic and dermatological treatments​

Malwina Zasada and Elżbieta Budzisz


View attachment 1636338

​

“Rough estimate”- wrong. Let’s not cut out the part where it says no one has clinically demonstrated the conversion rate.

View attachment 1636346

So we both have nothing on the conversion rate, "stronger" in the sense that you've posted it doesn't really mean anything, and is still way below the dietary average even if we take the worst case scenario 20x figure

 

[PURE ARYAN GENETICS]

You haven’t debunked anything. Last I remember you went quiet….

Absolutely silent

The next morning you will find that Jew has not even the slightest memory of yesterday and continues to repeat his old mischievous nonsense as if nothing at all had happened. When pressed about the previous conversation, he would pretend astonishment and could remember nothing at all except the truth of his statements, which he felt had been proven the day before.

Frequently I was simply paralyzed. It was hard to know what to admire the most: their fluency or their artistry in lying. Gradually, I began to hate them.

 

[Deleted member 16834]

So we both have nothing on the conversion rate, "stronger" in the sense that you've posted it doesn't really mean anything, and is still way below the dietary average even if we take the worst case scenario 20x figure

It’s added along with the dietary average. Hence why some have side effects earlier than others

Case: women cures ra upon cessation of eggs and milk from her daily diet.
Egg yolk and fortified milk are full of retinol content way below the FDA daily average.


What you’re not taking into account is the variance in diet. Those already predisposed to a high vitamin a diet and build up are more susceptible to side effects.

 

[eduardkoopman]

JFL glowing skin somehow failos this nigga

Overly oily skin. he looks shiny like a bowling ball.

Very Oily shiny skin = a looksmin.
Very dry dead looking skin = a looksmin.

One needs to be, in between those 2. Radiant skin, bit not oily shiny or dull dry looking.

SkinMaxxing: Matte skin, Oily-shiny skin, Radiant-skin.

Skin "Shinyness"/glowing Study and Attractiveness. 3 type of skin shines were shown. A: Matte B: Oily/Shiny C: "Radiant" Example of what each shine levelloosk like: Results on attractiveness rating in this Study: the used rating scale was: 1 (“very unattractive”), 2 (“unattractive”), 3...

looksmax.org

 

[Deleted member 16834]

So we both have nothing on the conversion rate, "stronger" in the sense that you've posted it doesn't really mean anything, and is still way below the dietary average even if we take the worst case scenario 20x figure

It means a whole lot.

1:10 and 1:20 are not statistically insignificant.

Adding in the element of clinical demonstration that hasn’t been accurately determined.
Other factors like peoples lifestyle choices (vitamin a dietary consumption, RA buildup, increased absorption via moisturizer/occlusive, strength differences .025% vs .1%)

 

[eduardkoopman]

something to do with collagen?

Retin-a (tretinoin): 80% increase
Treatment of photodamaged skin with tretinoin produced an 80 percent increase in collagen I formation, as compared with a 14 percent decrease in collagen formation with the use of vehicle alone (P = 0.006).
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199308193290803

 

[randomvanish]

You're using faulty logic. If you have toxicity at a certain dose and a therapeutic effect at, say, 1/4 that dose, it doesn't mean that toxicity is just delayed 4x as long. There's also an output rate, and it's possible to achieve a steady state.

I struggled to understand what you suggest for what rate or amount of usage would be optimal for health related issues?

 

[Mr.cope]

Indeed retin a was initially designed for spot treatment sparingly (upon notice of a acne breakout for example)

For people with cognitive dissonance I suggest using twice a weak at the weakest strength (.25%) and searching for a healthier alternative (glycolic acid, bakuchiol)

The weakest strength is (.007%)

 

[Deleted member 16834]

The weakest strength is (.007%)

Never seen a OTC concentration below .025%

Unless you’re talking about custom formulations designed by companies like curology or musely

 

[randomvanish]

Systemic Absorption of Retinoic Acid​

Thomas J. Franz &
Paul A. Lehman

View attachment 1636262


Remember the vitamin a content acquired through food HAS to be converted into retinoic acid. Be it fortified milk or eggs, the retinol content has to be converted by the body into active form (retinoic acid).

Meaning you can’t extrapolate 14 ug/day and do a false comparison with foods with higher retinol content as latter isn’t going directly into your body in the active form

but there is not effective way to like a young teenage skinned besides retin a

you better give me some decent & healthier alternative bro

 

[Deleted member 16834]

but there is not effective way to like a young teenage skinned besides retin a

you better give me some decent & healthier alternative bro

Glycolic acid
Bakuchiol

Or use retin a as a spot treatment. And not a I’m gonna rub this pea sized amount all over my face and build up to the highest concentration everyday.

 

[randomvanish]

Glycolic acid
Bakuchiol

are they proven to be healthy for daily usage?

 

[Deleted member 16834]

are they proven to be healthy for daily usage?

Yes glycolic acid sub 10% and bakuchiol can be used daily. Though I’d pick one as they both have a similar mechanism of action

 

[rax1337]

Retinol and beta carotene are different forms of vitamin a

Beta carotene will lead to skin color changes but have a less likelihood off triggering hypervitaminosis a

high beta carotene intake doesnt lead to hypervitaminosis a, the enzyme that converts it to retinaldehyde downregulates in the presence of high retinoic acid.

 

[rax1337]

high beta carotene intake doesnt lead to hypervitaminosis a, the enzyme that converts it to retinaldehyde downregulates in the presence of high retinoic acid.

At the enterocyte cell wall, β-carotene is taken up by the membrane transporter protein scavenger receptor class B, type 1 (SCARB1). Absorbed β-carotene is then either incorporated as such into chylomicrons or first converted to retinal and then retinol, bound to retinol binding protein 2, before being incorporated into chylomicrons. The conversion process consists of one molecule of β-carotene cleaved by the enzyme beta-carotene 15,15'-dioxygenase, which is encoded by the BC01 gene, into two molecules of retinal. When plasma retinol is in the normal range the gene expression for SCARB1 and BC01 are suppressed, creating a feedback loop that suppresses absorption and conversion.Because of these two mechanisms, high intake will not lead to hypervitaminosis A

 

[MrRubiks]

I struggled to understand what you suggest for what rate or amount of usage would be optimal for health related issues?

I'm honestly not sure. My only point was that there are a lot of variable at play here. The variables are interdependent, and any curve (levels in the body over time) will almost certainly not be linear, which is what his post was implying.

 

[Deleted member 7098]

Retinoic acid aka tretinoin/accutane is a active form of vitamin A.

View attachment 1635269View attachment 1635270View attachment 1635271View attachment 1635272View attachment 1635273View attachment 1635274View attachment 1635275View attachment 1635277View attachment 1635278View attachment 1635279View attachment 1635281View attachment 1635282View attachment 1635283

@eduardkoopman thought this would protect myself from the age disease to some degree, but this doesn't look good. are you still using tret?

 

[AscendingHero]

Yes glycolic acid sub 10% and bakuchiol can be used daily. Though I’d pick one as they both have a similar mechanism of action

For my purposes would u even recommend that? daily exfoliation which i paired glycolic acid at a high concreation?

ON the OG guide u recommend daily exfoliation for 3 months before even considering using tret let alone undertonemaxxing.

@alienmaxxer

 

[MrRubiks]

If hypervitaminosis is the problem, couldn't it be identified with a blood test? The liver would be actively correcting it, sure, but wouldn't it still be high if intake > output? And if not, couldn't the problem easily be corrected with cycling?

I tried to access the full articles but couldn't.

 

[KingGeorgeV]

You need to get it from a doctor in my country. What a joke!

 

[EverythingMattersCel]

0.1% tretinoin done nothing for my skin. Only destroyed my moisture barrier, destroyed my fat pads, made my indented scarring worse and indirectly given me hyperpigmentation in the process.

Now I hear that it has systemic absorption and it can lead to hypervitaminosis. Good. Hopefully it gives me a slow and painful death.

 

[KingGeorgeV]

0.1% tretinoin done nothing for my skin. Only destroyed my moisture barrier, destroyed my fat pads, made my indented scarring worse and indirectly given me hyperpigmentation in the process.

Now I hear that it has systemic absorption and it can lead to hypervitaminosis. Good. Hopefully it gives me a slow and painful death.

maybe you should have started with Retinol. I heard it's less "strong".

 

[EverythingMattersCel]

maybe you should have started with Retinol. I heard it's less "strong".

I started with 0.025% cream, then 0.05% cream and now 0.1% gel. I use it 3-4x a week.

 

[Deleted member 14160]

@alienmaxxer thankful af for your knowledge dude. Highest iq user on this forum by a mile and backs up claims with sources. @AscendingHero
What are your thoughts on ray peat's war on pufas?

 

[Deleted member 16834]

@alienmaxxer thankful af for your knowledge dude. Highest iq user on this forum by a mile and backs up claims with sources. @AscendingHero
What are your thoughts on ray peat's war on pufas?

Caging bc I see you banned every 2 days

 

[lasthope]

0.1% tretinoin done nothing for my skin. Only destroyed my moisture barrier, destroyed my fat pads, made my indented scarring worse and indirectly given me hyperpigmentation in the process.

Now I hear that it has systemic absorption and it can lead to hypervitaminosis. Good. Hopefully it gives me a slow and painful death.

Why you are Still using it then?

 

[Prettyboy]

Retinol and beta carotene are different forms of vitamin a

Beta carotene will lead to skin color changes but have a less likelihood off triggering hypervitaminosis a

Triggering hypervitaminosis A through beta carotene consumption only is unlikely as it's conversion ratio is low, but it could add up on the long run to other dietary sources of retinol

 

[EverythingMattersCel]

Why you are Still using it then?

Because I hate myself

 

[Mongrelcel]

i'll discontinue in a few yrs when i find and/or better collagen maxxing protocls are available

have you found a good alternative yet?

 

[Deleted member 18244]

looks like a weak low t pussy 18 year old

That skin tho

 

[Deleted member 18244]

0.1% tretinoin done nothing for my skin. Only destroyed my moisture barrier, destroyed my fat pads, made my indented scarring worse and indirectly given me hyperpigmentation in the process.

Now I hear that it has systemic absorption and it can lead to hypervitaminosis. Good. Hopefully it gives me a slow and painful death.

Did you combine it with a god moisturiser to restore your skin barrier? Also youre only supposed to use it 2-3 times A week i read. Did it really not help with acne scars?

 

[EdouardManlet]

Any downsides to this shit?

 

[fuckedupmanlet]

he looks gay

It’s because he’s fat, has a round hairline and gay haircut. Nothing to do with his skin.

 

[TUSSELEIF]

Any downsides to this shit?

You might get some irritation on your skin, red skin, dry eyes, I am on it rn (0.05) and have a bit of irritation, but getting collagen production and young healthy smooth skin far outweights a little bit of irritation, and your skin will feel nicer after putting it on. I’m sure the irritation will go away eventually

 

[TUSSELEIF]

Another one

 

[Deleted member 27472]

His skin looks amazing

It’s his facial features that make him look gay not his skin

 

[DR. NICKGA]

All sides of hypervitaminosis A.

What you can do is go on a low vitamin a diet. No eggs, No milk (substitute with calcium carbonate or get the calcium from sardines etc).

View attachment 1635637

This is how I reversed all side effects that I personally experienced.

Also since you have osteopenia you need to optimize calcium metabolism.

Calcium metabolism is: having enough vitamin d, vitamin k2, phosphorous and magnesium (as all these minerals and vitamin aid in metabolizing and making use of calcium).


Just dropping the eggs and milk by itself would be huge (I wouldn’t advise this extreme of a measure to anyone but since your problems are 100% in sync with Retinoic acid toxicity you need to detox all vitamin a rich foods even if some of them are healthy).

do vitamine A cause baldnesss?