Are CO2 lasers and Fraxel worth it for better collagen ? Any risks?

[Soalian]

Title.

Does anyone know about getting CO2 laser or FRAXEL, for better skin collagen ?

Is there any risks involved, such as risks of skin thinning, or subcutaneous fat loss ?

Thanks.

 

[Deleted member 4430]

Is there any risks involved, such as risks of skin thinning

everything that works on the damage and subsequent renewal / repairing of the collagen (peeling, rolling) has long-term negative effects on the skin

 

[Soalian]

everything that works on the damage and subsequent renewal / repairing of the collagen (peeling, rolling) has long-term negative effects on the skin

Yes, in this regard, I guess it's a bit like dermarolling, where you are actually buying time.

 

[damnit]

i don't know about lasers but infini microneedling (radiofrequency needling) can cause fat loss. Traditional microneedling (ofc without microtears) is safer.

@68218FN395 can you elaborate on negative effects ?

 

[Edgar]

) has long-term negative effects on the skin

How

 

[Soalian]

everything that works on the damage and subsequent renewal / repairing of the collagen (peeling, rolling) has long-term negative effects on the skin

Thank you for your reply.

What about other options, such as HIFU and/or IPL as well ?

 

[Deleted member 13994]

heard jhene aiko uses this, her skin:

 

[wetcat]

I did 5 sessions of traditional microneedling by a aesthetician. And the results were very good. I had huge deformed stretched pores and it helped me look at least normal. Not sure if it resulted in any type of facial fat loss. I did try one session of fraxel and the results werent very good. The practioner was also really weird, they had this self serve nitrous oxide, I felt like an idiot druggy. I dont plan on anymore fraxel sessions.

 

[looksmaxxtocope]

I saw a derm recently, considering getting fraxel for my acne scars, $600 for one session which isn't too bad.

I'm skeptical for how it will work for pitted scars though, lots of mixed reviews on the internet. gonna decide in the next week or so and will get it done within 2 weeks probably if I decide yes.

 

[Diremeyer]

I saw a derm recently, considering getting fraxel for my acne scars, $600 for one session which isn't too bad.

I'm skeptical for how it will work for pitted scars though, lots of mixed reviews on the internet. gonna decide in the next week or so and will get it done within 2 weeks probably if I decide yes.

Did you get the fraxel?

 

[Diremeyer]

everything that works on the damage and subsequent renewal / repairing of the collagen (peeling, rolling) has long-term negative effects on the skin

wtf?!

Fractional co2 lasers have long-lasting positive effect. Boosts collagen for over 6 month, just after a single session.

Here's a geezer gettin' it:

 

[looksmaxxtocope]

Did you get the fraxel?

Nope, I'll be doing subcision and TCA cross next month first cause I have pitted scars. Fraxel is non-ablative and doesn't work on anything that isn't superficial. If my skin ends up getting better and being more even and "level", I'll probably do lasers afterwards.

 

[Carnivore]

Does it work for under-eye wrinkles?

 

[Soalian]

wtf?!

Fractional co2 lasers have long-lasting positive effect. Boosts collagen for over 6 month, just after a single session.

Here's a geezer gettin' it:

View attachment 1303738

I read about a user's experience about all kinds of lasers on the thread below, and, in his opinion, non-fractional ablative CO2 laser resurfacing, would be the most dramatc in being able to boost collagen overall:

experiences with retin-a?

where should i buy it from? anyone have negative experiences? can it make things worse? what type should i buy first and how do i apply? tbh ngl

looksmax.org

"What did the biggest impact for collagen? Of course lasers by a large margin, especially the fully ablative non fractional, but they are very expensive (2,000€ at least/per session) and it takes two full weeks for recovery"

 

[Deleted member 643]

Yes, assuming you have advanced photoaging, ablative lasers are a powerful restorative therapy. However, if you are still young and your collagen is mostly intact, I doubt this will bring you from having average skin for a young man to having IG model shining skin.

 

[SixCRY]

Ça coûte cb en france ç?

 

[Diremeyer]

I read about a user's experience about all kinds of lasers on the thread below, and, in his opinion, non-fractional ablative CO2 laser resurfacing, would be the most dramatc in being able to boost collagen overall:

experiences with retin-a?

where should i buy it from? anyone have negative experiences? can it make things worse? what type should i buy first and how do i apply? tbh ngl

looksmax.org

"What did the biggest impact for collagen? Of course lasers by a large margin, especially the fully ablative non fractional, but they are very expensive (2,000€ at least/per session) and it takes two full weeks for recovery"

Thanks! It's a bit muddled the whole landscape, and hard to know what's best. I see there's some credence to non-ablative fractional co2 laser as well: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18727019/ If you know of a quality source where people weigh pros and cons let me know! And let me know if you've decided to use a laser.

"Of course lasers by a large margin, especially the fully ablative non fractional, but they are very expensive (2,000€ at least/per session) and it takes two full weeks for recovery" this surely is the heaviest of the big guns yeah. Right now I'm thinking I'd opt for something weaker, like an ablative fractional co2 laser at a low setting. To remove pores. It's enough with twice a year for that, for a strong collagen boost. And then perhaps non-ablative lasers later. A laser twice a year is fine with me, but I'd rather avoid the weaker ones that require like 4-5-6-7 sessions a year.

 

[Diremeyer]

Yes, assuming you have advanced photoaging, ablative lasers are a powerful restorative therapy. However, if you are still young and your collagen is mostly intact, I doubt this will bring you from having average skin for a young man to having IG model shining skin.

The very best way for a young man to get that IG model shining skin is cleansing, peeling and lasers. Cleansing is a must, removing dead skin, peeling can be done with pads and removes dead skin, and lasers has the very strongest effect getting plentiful of collagen.
There's different degrees of ablative lasers, and non-ablative lasers. Most of them are way more effective than microneedling, and all of them are more effective than dermarolling, which some users here do pretty much daily. Painful and a time thief.

 

[Soalian]

The very best way for a young man to get that IG model shining skin is cleansing, peeling and lasers. Cleansing is a must, removing dead skin, peeling can be done with pads and removes dead skin, and lasers has the very strongest effect getting plentiful of collagen.
There's different degrees of ablative lasers, and non-ablative lasers. Most of them are way more effective than microneedling, and all of them are more effective than dermarolling, which some users here do pretty much daily. Painful and a time thief.

Thank your for your detailed and informative replies here,

with peeling do you mean TCA peels? Looked into it before but couldn't find info on peels in relationship to skin collagen though.

 

[klamus]

Absolutely not worth it If you dont Have acne scars or such.

I had acne scars and had fraxel For 300e here in Finland. Cant Say anything definite about The results except That things didn't get worse at least. If you Have acne scars 1 Time very likely not gonna Be enough

300e is not much money so I just wanted to try it

 

[Soalian]

Absolutely not worth it If you dont Have acne scars or such.

I had acne scars and had fraxel For 300e here in Finland. Cant Say anything definite about The results except That things didn't get worse at least. If you Have acne scars 1 Time very likely not gonna Be enough

300e is not much money so I just wanted to try it

maybe it was scam though

 

[klamus]

maybe it was scam though

A doctor did it in finlands biggest private hospital(mehiläinen)

 

[Lawton88]

Yes, in this regard, I guess it's a bit like dermarolling, where you are actually buying time.

I don't think there are any negatives to rolling. There are people in their 50s and 60s getting results from that. One article claimed some nonsense but with no data to support their claims.

 

[Diremeyer]

Thank your for your detailed and informative replies here,

with peeling do you mean TCA peels? Looked into it before but couldn't find info on peels in relationship to skin collagen though.

By "peeling" I mean studio peels (such as TCA) and home peels (such as peeling pads). I have tried both, and have had far better success with home peeling. I've done two or three TCA peels, without any effect. Barely visible skin peeling, barely skin improvement. Anyways, peels remove dead skin, and sure peels have some effect on collagen. Some. But to really boost collagen you'd opt for lasers.

Absolutely not worth it (...) had fraxel (...) 300e is not much money so I just wanted to try it

That's what I keep reading about fraxel (non-ablative laser). It doesn't work well, and though it's "cheap" it's really expensive cuz you gotta do it like 3-5 times, usually one every 3-8 weeks. And even then, it doesn't work well. So thanks for weighing in.

 

[Diremeyer]

@Soalian Check out this, just found it.

Laser Resurfacing 85% Worth It • 1,0k reviews • Avg cost: $1 950
CO2 Laser 83% Worth It • 965 reviews • Avg cost: $2 750
Fraxel Laser 59% Worth It • 1,1k reviews • Avg cost: $1 600

The website has cautionary tales as well, why some wasn't happy with their lasers. One major complain I see is damaged skin, which seems to be due to a (way too) strong laser. I guess it's best to start easy, with a co2 fractional (!) laser on a weak setting. I guess that falls under the category laser resurfacing. Regular CO2 laser is the biggest gun and I doubt it's smart to start with. And they agree fraxel is shait.

Overview of ratings for various procedures (laser, skin needling, peels)

Explore Plastic Surgery, Aesthetic & Dental Procedures - RealSelf

Discover the right aesthetic procedure for you. Already know what you’re looking for? Get the details to make a smart decision.

www.realself.com

And pictures of laser resurfacing. You can filter for younger age groups.

Laser Resurfacing Before & After Pictures - RealSelf

View 3,441 before and after Laser Resurfacing photos, submitted by real doctors, to get an idea of the results patients have seen. Then connect with...

www.realself.com

On the same website they compare it to other treatments. I'm surprised to see such high "worth it rankings" for skin needling, but it might be due to the low price. So microneedling and microdermabrasion they give a 82% and 94 % worth it rating, costing $650 and $175 respectively. Could be the low cost which drives up the worth it rating. Anyways, it's a great site.

 

[Soalian]

@Soalian Check out this, just found it.

Laser Resurfacing 85% Worth It • 1,0k reviews • Avg cost: $1 950
CO2 Laser 83% Worth It • 965 reviews • Avg cost: $2 750
Fraxel Laser 59% Worth It • 1,1k reviews • Avg cost: $1 600

The website has cautionary tales as well, why some wasn't happy with their lasers. One major complain I see is damaged skin, which seems to be due to a (way too) strong laser. I guess it's best to start easy, with a co2 fractional (!) laser on a weak setting. I guess that falls under the category laser resurfacing. Regular CO2 laser is the biggest gun and I doubt it's smart to start with. And they agree fraxel is shait.

Overview of ratings for various procedures (laser, skin needling, peels)

Explore Plastic Surgery, Aesthetic & Dental Procedures - RealSelf

Discover the right aesthetic procedure for you. Already know what you’re looking for? Get the details to make a smart decision.

www.realself.com

And pictures of laser resurfacing. You can filter for younger age groups.

Laser Resurfacing Before & After Pictures - RealSelf

View 3,441 before and after Laser Resurfacing photos, submitted by real doctors, to get an idea of the results patients have seen. Then connect with...

www.realself.com

On the same website they compare it to other treatments. I'm surprised to see such high "worth it rankings" for skin needling, but it might be due to the low price. So microneedling and microdermabrasion they give a 82% and 94 % worth it rating, costing $650 and $175 respectively. Could be the low cost which drives up the worth it rating. Anyways, it's a great site.

Thanks bro, very useful breakdown

 

[Diremeyer]

I did some more comparing, and still, the clear winner for lasers is the co2 fractional laser. It's the one most laser clinics provide. The benefits are:

• Stimulates new collagen formation
• Improved skin tone and texture
• Improves texture, tone, and pore size
• Immediate collagen tightening
• Even out skin tone
• Softens deep lines
• Reduced fine lines
• Smooth skin texture and imperfections such as acne scars

The other lasers worth mentioning are Erbium (a fractional laser weaker than co2 fractional but still ablative) and to some extent Fraxel Repair (ablative), and regular co2 non-fractional is a heavy gun that might be used, but try fractional first. Any laser that's non ablative (that don't remove the upper layer of the skin) is crap.

Here's the reviews for fractional laser, which is one type of laser used for skin resurfacing, and a whooping 91% say it's worth it, even though it's expensive. https://www.realself.com/reviews/fractional-laser

 

[Soalian]

I did some more comparing, and still, the clear winner for lasers is the co2 fractional laser. It's the one most laser clinics provide. The benefits are:

• Stimulates new collagen formation
• Improved skin tone and texture
• Improves texture, tone, and pore size
• Immediate collagen tightening
• Even out skin tone
• Softens deep lines
• Reduced fine lines
• Smooth skin texture and imperfections such as acne scars

The other lasers worth mentioning are Erbium (a fractional laser weaker than co2 fractional but still ablative) and to some extent Fraxel Repair (ablative), and regular co2 non-fractional is a heavy gun that might be used, but try fractional first. Any laser that's non ablative (that don't remove the upper layer of the skin) is crap.

Here's the reviews for fractional laser, which is one type of laser used for skin resurfacing, and a whooping 91% say it's worth it, even though it's expensive. https://www.realself.com/reviews/fractional-laser

Thank you bro, I'll have this in mind, what do you think of the following comment on another thread, that says ablative, but non-fractional CO2 lasers may be better for collagen repair:

experiences with retin-a?

where should i buy it from? anyone have negative experiences? can it make things worse? what type should i buy first and how do i apply? tbh ngl

looksmax.org

 

[Osteogenesis]

There is also radiofrequency microneedling

 

[Diremeyer]

Thank you bro, I'll have this in mind, what do you think of the following comment on another thread, that says ablative, but non-fractional CO2 lasers may be better for collagen repair

Yeah I agree. Non-fractional co2 lasers have the highest impact. Both types of lasers pose small risks for side effects that last, and they're both effective. However I think it's prudent to start with a fractional co2 laser because it's likely enough to reap the full benefits. So as the biggest gun the non-fractional co2 lasers trumps, but fractional co2 laser wins when you factor in other things than the highest potential (!) effect, such as downtime, risks, cost, fractional is a winner. You get smooth skin, smaller pores, high collagen production etc. You don't want to do a biyearly regular co2 laser, but you could do it with fractional co2 laser, to boost collagen production. And if your skin looks smooth and good after a single fractional co2 laser (the first treatment has the biggest impact) you have little to gain from using a regular co2 laser. So if you don't have major stuff to fix, such as deep wrinkles, deep scars, fairly saggy skin, and such, if you don't have that I think fractional co2 laser is the winner. And it's a good place to start, so in case you don't get the full benefits you could always do a regular later.

 

[Deleted member 15452]

None of this needling (rf and normal) worked for my acne scars and just made my skin worse (older looking, bad pigment, fat loss). If you have bad skin genes it is over. Surgeries are extremely hit and miss. I am going to try fully ablative co2 laser like this last ditch effort.

 

[Soalian]

None of this needling (rf and normal) worked for my acne scars and just made my skin worse (older looking, bad pigment, fat loss). If you have bad skin genes it is over. Surgeries are extremely hit and miss. I am going to try fully ablative co2 laser like this last ditch effort.

ok, thanks for the heads-up.

What microneedling device were you using? Dermapen?

 

[Deleted member 15452]

ok, thanks for the heads-up.

What microneedling device were you using? Dermapen?

no i had professional done. 2 sessions normal. 2 sessions with radio frequency (infini) and prp

 

[lasthope]

None of this needling (rf and normal) worked for my acne scars and just made my skin worse (older looking, bad pigment, fat loss). If you have bad skin genes it is over. Surgeries are extremely hit and miss. I am going to try fully ablative co2 laser like this last ditch effort.

You sure that also rf needling made your skin worse?

 

[Deleted member 15452]

You sure that also rf needling made your skin worse?

it was shit before but it did not help in anyway, and it has left additional fat loss and damage yes.

 

[Deleted member 15452]

since i am fitzpatrick 1 I am going to get very aggressive laser done. it is basically melting off your entire face. primarily for acne scars because mine are bad. I won't be able to mt2 max until about 3 months after at least which i desperately need to do.

 

[lasthope]

it was shit before but it did not help in anyway, and it has left additional fat loss and damage yes.

Wtf did you try subscision too with filler?
Or tca cross peeling? Or co2 fraxel?

 

[Deleted member 15452]

Wtf did you try subscision too with filler?
Or tca cross peeling? Or co2 fraxel?

i tried subcision yes but because my scars are on my jawline/neck platysma i cannot get ha filler because it will migrate because there is a lot of movement in this area. also these treatments are extremely expensive, i have already spent 3-4 grand and will spend another 5k which is all i have. also i just found out apparently i need to fix my subhuman under eye support which is another expensive surgery. i am going to be 30 by the time i will look semi decent.

 

[Deleted member 15452]

i will get sculptra though at some point, not as specific scar filler, but general volume replacement in areas that have collagen/fat atrophy from scarring. my scarring is probably a lot worse than you guys though.

 

[Diremeyer]

None of this needling (rf and normal) worked for my acne scars and just made my skin worse (older looking, bad pigment, fat loss). If you have bad skin genes it is over. Surgeries are extremely hit and miss. I am going to try fully ablative co2 laser like this last ditch effort.

Tell us about it if you do. And if you have before after all the better. The needling hardly helps, so the regular co2 laser ain't last ditch, but rather the best tool and it would do a might fine job. Good luck bro!

 

[Deleted member 15452]

Tell us about it if you do. And if you have before after all the better. The needling hardly helps, so the regular co2 laser ain't last ditch, but rather the best tool and it would do a might fine job. Good luck bro!

I will. laser side effects are generally worse if you are darker skinned, they can cause more hyperpigment and scarring, I am fitzpatrick 1 so can have very aggressive laser but it will still be a risk but i have to do it.

 

[Deleted member 23695]

Does this procedure remove all lines in the face?

 

[Diremeyer]

Does this procedure remove all lines in the face?

You should do it BEFORE you get lines in the face. That's when it works the best.

But yeah, CO2 fractional lasers are good at removing lines, and giving model tier skin. If you also follow a skin care plan with cleanser etc.