Averageness is so fucking important and underrated in the PSL community

[BonesAndHarmony]

Are his ratios average? His fwhr isnt forsure

Bro ''average'' is not the right word. The average man has subpar ratios, this is not what the idea of averageness is about. Pitt has good ratios, his skull height/ bizygomatic widht ratio is 1.6 and his ES ratio is 0.46 for example, also his FWHR is not ''weird'' or ''extreme'', it perfecly fits within the average AND looks dimorphic at the same time

 

[randomvanish]

You need to determine which features and ratios of your face look too ''unusual'' and correct them

big jaw is unusual and hunter eyes too. they are strikingly different than the average.

 

[Deleted member 3195]

Can you give examples?

literally all chads look similar
You can compare most models and they have that “look”

 

[BonesAndHarmony]

big jaw is unusual and hunter eyes too. they are strikingly different than the average.

As long as your face looks dimorphic and your ratios are good of course you are going to be good looking, there are people with huge jaws who look like shit because their harmony is bad

 

[randomvanish]

As long as your face looks dimorphic and your ratios are good of course you are going to be good looking, there are people with huge jaws who look like shit because their harmony is bad

that's not related with averageness, it's about having alien like ratios with stupid implant designs.

 

[BonesAndHarmony]

that's not related with averageness, it's about having alien like ratios with stupid implant designs.

Harmony = averageness = balanced ratios + features. If you add a bit of dimorphism to the equation (NT looking hunter eyes, chiseled jaw) you end up being even more good looking

 

[PubertyMaxxer]

Harmony = averageness = balanced ratios + features. If you add a bit of dimorphism to the equation (NT looking hunter eyes, chiseled jaw) you end up being even more good looking

what are balanced ratios though? Could yiu create a detailed list?
Do you mean features as in balanced facial measurements?

 

[randomvanish]

balanced ratios

scientists learn about "what is attractive" by looking people's faces who finded attractive by people. they don't know why exactly.
so this is where averageness fails.
striking features doesn't add up with averageness.
also combining ugly people doesn't end up with faces like jordan barrett or brad pitt. because they have 0.01% rare, striking features.
combining subhumans may end up kinda beautiful faces though.
that's where it fails.

 

[BonesAndHarmony]

what are balanced ratios though? Could yiu create a detailed list?
Do you mean features as in balanced facial measurements?

1. Skull height (from menton to top of the head)/ bizygomatic widht (ideal should be 1.61)
2. ESratio (ideal 0.46)
3. Midface ratio (ideal 1)
4. Distance from center between pupils to center of mouth/ total facial height (from menton to hairline) (ideal 0.36)
5. Lower lip height / upper lip height (1.61)
6. Chin height / philtrum lenght (more or less 2.3)
7. Nose tip to menton/ upper lip to menton (ideal 1.61)
8. Bigonial widht should be as wide or almost as wide or only somewhat wider than your bizygomatic widht

scientists learn about "what is attractive" by looking people's faces who finded attractive by people. they don't know why exactly.
so this is where averageness fails.
striking features doesn't add up with averageness.
also combining ugly people doesn't end up with faces like jordan barrett or brad pitt. because they have 0.01% rare, striking features.
combining subhumans may end up kinda beautiful faces though.
that's where it fails.

Lmao I already said that averageness is not the only factor in attractiveness but it's probably the most important one. If you look at a starry sky, what do you think? That it's beautiful. If you see in front of you a breath taking landscape? It's pretty. If you see Pitt's or Palvin's eyes what do you think? Those eyes are pretty because of coloring, cat like shape, etc. Maybe their eyes are unusually striking, but if they are pretty to look at who cares? As long as your features are pretty to look at nobody cares if they are unusual. You get it? But if their eyes weren't pretty to look at and on top of that unusual and atypical their eye areas would be major failos.

 

[PubertyMaxxer]

1. Skull height (from menton to top of the head)/ bizygomatic widht (ideal should be 1.61)
2. ESratio (ideal 0.46)
3. Midface ratio (ideal 1)
4. Distance from center between pupils to center of mouth/ total facial height (from menton to hairline) (ideal 0.36)
5. Lower lip height / upper lip height (1.61)
6. Chin height / philtrum lenght (more or less 2.3)
7. Nose tip to menton/ upper lip to menton (ideal 1.61)
8. Bigonial widht should be as wide or almost as wide or only somewhat wider than your bizygomatic widht

Could be a great thread

 

[BonesAndHarmony]

Could be a great thread

There is already one though, it's pinned in the looksmaxing section

 

[PubertyMaxxer]

There is already one though, it's pinned in the looksmaxing section

Do males with high averageness have most of the ratios? https://looksmax.org/threads/ideal-facial-ratios-proportions-v2

 

[BonesAndHarmony]

Do males with high averageness have most of the ratios? https://looksmax.org/threads/ideal-facial-ratios-proportions-v2

Yes

 

[Darkstrand]

Normies talk about being average all the time, we covered the topic of beauty in class and everyone was shouting averageness cause I guess they read it in an article, they have no clue what they are talking cause the actual believe looking plain dead ass average is good

 

[LostYouth]

ur right about the first part, but his eye area is still striking and he jawmogs pitt easily
View attachment 359425View attachment 359427

Doesn't jaw mog shit tbh, blasphemous to say he jawmogs Pitt, his features are all within the ideal ratios, averageness, he IS average, and i'd argue so are his eyes, his are not extremely hooded, not too masc brows, not too high set, not too low set, not too close or wide eyes, just average within every eye area

 

[skinmaxxer]

I'm guessing this is why ppl who facial surgerymaxx or even skinmaxx too hard look less attractive than ppl who don't go to the extremes

 

[BonesAndHarmony]

I'm guessing this is why ppl who facial surgerymaxx or even skinmaxx too hard look less attractive than ppl who don't go to the extremes

Yeah, some people are retarded and think that having a huge jaw is all that matters. So they get a jaw implant and surprise, they end up looking weird and worse than before. Luckily, we are blackpilled and know the importance of harmony

 

[randomvanish]

Yeah, some people are retarded and think that having a huge jaw is all that matters. So they get a jaw implant and surprise, they end up looking weird and worse than before. Luckily, we are blackpilled and know the importance of harmony

what would be the perfect base to get a custom wraparound jaw implant, and look geniunely masculine&good looking ?

 

[BonesAndHarmony]

what would be the perfect base to get a custom wraparound jaw implant, and look geniunely masculine&good looking ?

I guess youthful face + high FWHR is the perfect combo. I've seen middle aged men get jaw implants and end up looking retarded. If you have a narrow face don't even bother, jaw is the last of your worries

 

[randomvanish]

I guess youthful face + high FWHR is the perfect combo. I've seen middle aged men get jaw implants and end up looking retarded. If you have a narrow face don't even bother, jaw is the last of your worries

i have a good eye area including brow ridge and eyebrows.
my fwhr is 1.8.
chin/philtrum ratio is 2.25.
my nose is okay , not small or feminine. do you think all these features enough to have big jaw ?
(i know you cannot make sure yourself without see the pics but just curious about yor opinion all these measures)

 

[BonesAndHarmony]

i have a good eye area including brow ridge and eyebrows.
my fwhr is 1.8.
chin/philtrum ratio is 2.25.
my nose is okay , not small or feminine. do you think all these features enough to have big jaw ?
(i know you cannot make sure yourself without see the pics but just curious about yor opinion all these measures)

No, because your chin/philtrum ratio and FWHR is more like Chico tier rather than DOM like this:

 

[randomvanish]

No, because your chin/philtrum ratio and FWHR is more like Chico tier rather than DOM like this:
View attachment 362432

but with custom wraparound jaw implant, it will go smth like 2.8 .
this guy also has that ratio.

 

[BonesAndHarmony]

but with custom wraparound jaw implant, it will go smth like 2.8 .
this guy also has that ratio.

It could be dangerous with a 1.8 FWHR, I don't know if you could pull it off, 1.8 is not bad but maybe not enough.
Also how is your bigonial widht?

 

[randomvanish]

It could be dangerous with a 1.8 FWHR, I don't know if you could pull it off, 1.8 is not bad but maybe not enough.
Also how is your bigonial widht?

nearly 128

 

[BonesAndHarmony]

nearly 128

That's gonial angle

 

[randomvanish]

That's gonial angle

opsss sorry. i don't know should get a ratio by pic or measure by hand ?

 

[BonesAndHarmony]

opsss sorry. i don't know should get a ratio by pic or measure by hand ?

Is your jaw almost as wide as your bizygomatic widht or does it look narrow?

 

[randomvanish]

Is your jaw almost as wide as your bizygomatic widht or does it look narrow?

jaw is narrower than the zygos. my lower third is narrower.


my right side is even narrower than the left because of jaw asymetry due to birth defection.
(right side mandibular a little bit inward like the picture below)

 

[BonesAndHarmony]

jaw is narrower than the zygos. my lower third is narrower.


my right side is even narrower than the left because of jaw asymetry due to birth defection.
(right side mandibular a little bit inward like the picture below)

Yeah, but is it way narrower or just slightly narrower?

 

[Stingray]

Great thread. The scientific literature indicates three main factors determining attractiveness is humans.

Averageness, Symmetry and Dimorphism

 

[randomvanish]

Yeah, but is it way narrower or just slightly narrower?

right side is way narrower but left is slightly narrower. i guess you ask because flat zygos with big jaw looking comical. that's why i'm considering (if necesseary, if my zygos aren't wide enough) zygo filler or implant too.

 

[eduardkoopman]

Can't believe the PSL community is not aware of the averagenesspill.

In 1990, one of the first computer-based photographic attractiveness rating studies was conducted. During this year psychologists Langlois and Roggman wanted to systematically examine whether mathematical averageness is linked with facial attractiveness.[1][2][3][12][13][14][15] To test this, they selected photographs of 192 young male and female Caucasian faces; each of which was computer scanned and digitized. They then made computer-processed composites of each image, as 2-, 4-, 8-, 16-, and 32-face composites, averaged by pixel. These faces, as well as the component faces, were rated for attractiveness by 300 judges on a 5-point Likert scale (1 = very unattractive, 5 = very attractive). The 32-composite face was the most visually attractive of all the faces.
Source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Averageness

The more faces you add the more attractive the resulting face.
This explains many things. For one why attractive people have their ratios approaching the golden ratio.
View attachment 358057
This means the ideal IPD is 46% of your facial widht and the distance between your pupils and center of mouth has to be 36% of your face height.
I measured this with Lachowski and he fulfills both paremeters.
This is a brutal Blackpill, think about it. It means that only a lucky few have mathematically speaking the privilege of good looks since you need a lot of people with different facial features, shapes, ratios, etc, to create averageness (Inb4 ''water is wet'') while the vast majority of the population is condemended to a life of subpar looks.

100% legit

That's why it's so important, so take that into consideration. Especially with operations, but also fillers.

It often goes wrong with sugeries and fillers. Like, disproportional lips, excessive cheeckbones combined torest. And so on.

For example.
Great averageness. To aftre: disproportional lips, and face to much width.

 

[BonesAndHarmony]

right side is way narrower but left is slightly narrower. i guess you ask because flat zygos with big jaw looking comical. that's why i'm considering (if necesseary, if my zygos aren't wide enough) zygo filler or implant too.

No, I ask because a narrow bigonial widht is a gigantic failo that needs to be fixed. But if your bigonial widht is fine it's hard to know if you need a jaw implant. Either way if your right side is asymmetrical you need to address it

 

[eduardkoopman]

Actually. 1 dude discussed it here once very well.

And had the exact measurements of ideal ratio's.
I found these master posts back:

ideal facial ratios & proportions

facial width to height ratio (FWHR): 1.8-2.0 measured by dividing the bizygomatic width (distance from cheekbone to cheekbone) by the height of the lower part of the eyebrow to the upper lip. midface ratio: 1.0 measured by dividing the interpupillary distance (distance between the centers of...

looksmax.org

Ideal facial ratios and proportions

this is an updated version of my previous ideal facial ratios & proportions thread which can be found here facial width to height ratio (FWHR): 1.8+ measured by dividing the bizygomatic width (distance from cheekbone to cheekbone) by the height of the middle part of the eyebrow to the upper...

looksmax.org

 

[randomvanish]

No, I ask because a narrow bigonial widht is a gigantic failo that needs to be fixed. But if your bigonial widht is fine it's hard to know if you need a jaw implant. Either way if your right side is asymmetrical you need to address it

I feel like i need to fix asymetric jaw. It's a big falio. I tried filler but fillers unable to correct my assymetry.
So i thought while correcting asymetry, i can have big jaw with bigger gonial angle and bigger jaw width. My lower third is not really really small but definitely smaller than upper third.
Also my chin is pointy. Length is good but pointy chin looks so feminine, i don't like it.
So these are the points why i'm exactly wanting to have a custom wraparound jaw.

 

[BonesAndHarmony]

Actually. 1 dude discussed it here once very well.

And had the exact measurements of ideal ratio's.
I found these master posts back:

ideal facial ratios & proportions

facial width to height ratio (FWHR): 1.8-2.0 measured by dividing the bizygomatic width (distance from cheekbone to cheekbone) by the height of the lower part of the eyebrow to the upper lip. midface ratio: 1.0 measured by dividing the interpupillary distance (distance between the centers of...

looksmax.org

Ideal facial ratios and proportions

this is an updated version of my previous ideal facial ratios & proportions thread which can be found here facial width to height ratio (FWHR): 1.8+ measured by dividing the bizygomatic width (distance from cheekbone to cheekbone) by the height of the middle part of the eyebrow to the upper...

looksmax.org

There are still other ratios that are not discussed in that thread

I feel like i need to fix asymetric jaw. It's a big falio. I tried filler but fillers unable to correct my assymetry.
So i thought while correcting asymetry, i can have big jaw with bigger gonial angle and bigger jaw width. My lower third is not really really small but definitely smaller than upper third.
Also my chin is pointy. Length is good but pointy chin looks so feminine, i don't like it.
So these are the points why i'm exactly wanting to have a custom wraparound jaw.

If you are trying to fix your gonial angle, pointy chin and asymmetry then it's good but I would be careful, too big of a jaw could make you look comical if you don't have the right face and ratios for it

 

[eduardkoopman]

There are still other ratios that are not discussed in that thread

What I miss a little bit so far.
Is the measurements. of the actual organs on the face. Like t's proportions to each other.
Them being the height, and width of:
the eyes,
the nose,
the mouth/lips
eyebrows maybe

to add.
imo Chico was the king of Averageness.
Nothing was great features much (except eyes). But it all fitted well.

Here another fuckup example.
In theory prominent cheeckbones, and a nice massive jawline are best. But this dude looks f\reaaly bad with these changes. Because, averageness and proportions get totally fucked up because of this.

Can I pintpoint the fails?
The biggest disproportion to me feels, like he has small and tiny upper head (in the after pic), which makes everything below the upper head looks bloathed and way to wide comparatively.


There excist a whole guide about this. For surgeons:

Ideals of Facial Beauty

Facial aesthetic procedures are central to cosmetic dermatology. Success depends not only on improving individual structures but also on establishing facial harmony. Several canons of aesthetic dimensions have been described, and these concepts can provide a useful basis for procedural planning...

www.mdedge.com

 

[PubertyMaxxer]

Great thread. The scientific literature indicates three main factors determining attractiveness is humans.

Averageness, Symmetry and Dimorphism

Dont forget Youthfulness

Read my title

One youthful feature is for example a short philtrum since it tends to elongate with age,

No, I ask because a narrow bigonial widht is a gigantic failo that needs to be fixed. But if your bigonial widht is fine it's hard to know if you need a jaw implant. Either way if your right side is asymmetrical you need to address it

Would you agree that a bizygo/bigonial width ratio of 1.1 is ideal?

Source : Mommaerts 2016 " The Ideal Mlae Jaw"

 

[Deleted member 5052]

That's why eye area is so important. You can have average features and unique eye area i.e o'pry or lorenzo zurzolo pheno making you stand out from the general population while still not looking completely alien.

 

[TheEndHasNoEnd]

This is a brutal Blackpill, think about it. It means that only a lucky few have mathematically speaking the privilege of good looks since you need a lot of people with different facial features, shapes, ratios, etc, to create averageness (Inb4 ''water is wet'') while the vast majority of the population is condemended to a life of subpar looks.

proof that racemixing is evolution

not sure about skull height but my bizygomatic width is roughly 15.2 cm (and IPD is roughly 6.2-6.3 cm). Midface ratio is ~1. ES ratio is ~0.41. FWHR I think is ~2.1.

ur problem is that ur midface isnt compact enough for ur fwhr, also your eyebrows are too horizontally short

 

[6ft4]

legit af

 

[Deleted member 16371]

Can't believe the PSL community is not aware of the averagenesspill.

In 1990, one of the first computer-based photographic attractiveness rating studies was conducted. During this year psychologists Langlois and Roggman wanted to systematically examine whether mathematical averageness is linked with facial attractiveness.[1][2][3][12][13][14][15] To test this, they selected photographs of 192 young male and female Caucasian faces; each of which was computer scanned and digitized. They then made computer-processed composites of each image, as 2-, 4-, 8-, 16-, and 32-face composites, averaged by pixel. These faces, as well as the component faces, were rated for attractiveness by 300 judges on a 5-point Likert scale (1 = very unattractive, 5 = very attractive). The 32-composite face was the most visually attractive of all the faces.
Source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Averageness

The more faces you add the more attractive the resulting face.
This explains many things. For one why attractive people have their ratios approaching the golden ratio.
View attachment 358057
This means the ideal IPD is 46% of your facial widht and the distance between your pupils and center of mouth has to be 36% of your face height.
I measured this with Lachowski and he fulfills both paremeters.
This is a brutal Blackpill, think about it. It means that only a lucky few have mathematically speaking the privilege of good looks since you need a lot of people with different facial features, shapes, ratios, etc, to create averageness (Inb4 ''water is wet'') while the vast majority of the population is condemended to a life of subpar looks.

I have 0 average features literally none