currently in Istanbul awaiting my bimax on Friday

Best of luck
 
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ccwwarrior said:
That submental angle looks too small in the after .... pray that it's just the soft tissue simulation
Click to expand...
Do you mean the labiomental angle? I have a silicone chin implant that he's removing that is throwing off at least that part of the simulation. I think that's why he didn't bother to plan a genio.
 
optimisticzoomer said:
7k, yet users here insist on going to big names as though most surgeons don't have the skills
Click to expand...
Even though Turkey is a shithole, the majority of the doctors there are more experienced and skilled than the rest of Europe.
 
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Good luck

Plastic surgery has advanced a lot over the years.

As it will keep growing and growing there will be more qualified surgeons, imagine how big it will be in 20 years.

Do you have a surgery plan ? (Bimax, then rino...)

Let me know when you get out of the surgery room, hoping to see good results.
 
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longjohnmong said:
Having trimax on Friday. Cost: €7k. I will post the surgeon's name after the surgery. Here is my surgical plan:

View attachment 2415482

8 degrees CCW rotation via posterior downgraft, 7.6mm maxilla advancement, 12mm mandible advancement (probably ~18mm after genio). I have a silicone chin implant that is throwing off the projected soft tissue result. I'm also getting genio, but I think he's just going to improvise that, maybe because of the chin implant issue.
Click to expand...

sorry but didn't understand: the chin implant is taken into account or not in the simulations? only for the soft tissue?
 
ccwwarrior said:
Steepish angles such as as in your after simulation are the number one characteristic of over-advancement or chimpanzeemaxxing
Click to expand...
He mentioned not wanting to create a "monkey face" several times during the consult. The simulation is slightly concerning although I don't know how accurate it is. It kinda looks like it treats all the soft tissue the same and just advances it however much a more rigid tissue would advance if it were affixed to the bone.
 
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hansmoleman said:
sorry but didn't understand: the chin implant is taken into account or not in the simulations? only for the soft tissue?
Click to expand...
The red line is the soft tissue simulation. It shows where my chin would be if my chin implant were not being removed, but it is being removed, so it's incorrect. However, it's not that far off because I'm going to have genio. But hopefully it'll have a better shape because my chin implant is placed too high and adds too much volume.
 
NationalWarrior said:
Good luck

Plastic surgery has advanced a lot over the years.

As it will keep growing and growing there will be more qualified surgeons, imagine how big it will be in 20 years.

Do you have a surgery plan ? (Bimax, then rino...)

Let me know when you get out of the surgery room, hoping to see good results.
Click to expand...
Thank you. I'll make a post surgery post. Yeah, my plan is to have rhino revision around March. I had my original rhino in 2002. It was horribly botched. Like almost this bad, and possibly worse from other angles:


If I need midface implants after bimax (likely), I'm going to try to work them into that surgery or trip somehow and maybe jaw implants. Although today the jaw surgeon told me to wait a year before jaw implants after bimax, although he was willing to do them during this surgery and I probably should have agreed, but whatever.
 
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longjohnmong said:
Thank you. I'll make a post surgery post. Yeah, my plan is to have rhino revision around March. I had my original rhino in 2002. It was horribly botched. Like almost this bad, and possibly worse from other angles:


If I need midface implants after bimax (likely), I'm going to try to work them into that surgery or trip somehow and maybe jaw implants. Although today the jaw surgeon told me to wait a year before jaw implants after bimax, although he was willing to do them during this surgery and I probably should have agreed, but whatever.
Click to expand...
When is your surgery
 
longjohnmong said:
He mentioned not wanting to create a "monkey face" several times during the consult. The simulation is slightly concerning although I don't know how accurate it is. It kinda looks like it treats all the soft tissue the same and just advances it however much a more rigid tissue would advance if it were affixed to the bone.
Click to expand...
The simulation Pagnoni did for me also looked kind of dogmaxxed, but I'm assured its good movements. I really doubt how useful these programs (at least Dolphin, which I understand is what most use) are for visualizing the results and the "before" doesnt even look recognizably enough like me to merit any import. 7.6mm maxilla though does seem like large movement compared to what I've heard even in aggressive cases but of course I don't know your face and can't read anything into skull shapes.
 
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Wish you luck man. Will you deal with nose problem later? Or you already did?
 
slop slinger said:
The simulation Pagnoni did for me also looked kind of dogmaxxed, but I'm assured its good movements. I really doubt how useful these programs (at least Dolphin, which I understand is what most use) are for visualizing the results and the "before" doesnt even look recognizably enough like me to merit any import. 7.6mm maxilla though does seem like large movement compared to what I've heard even in aggressive cases but of course I don't know your face and can't read anything into skull shapes.
Click to expand...
Yeah, if you look at @anticel's simulation the bottom lip is much further projected than in his actual result. Even the chin is further forward I think.

screenshot_20230710_143430_inshot-jpg.2311436


It does seem large, but most of it is coming from the rotation, which is 8.5mm. Anticel got 13 degree, and was less recessed than I am. The surgeon's reasoning was kinda simple. He rotated to what he thinks is a "very good" occlusal angle and then did an additional 3mm linear advancement to give my airway more room. My airway actually looks super fucking narrow, and you can see how recessed I am even with the chin implant. I think this is the middle slice?

4ff
 
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longjohnmong said:
It's only cheap in a global context, but a surgeon can't charge global prices if they aren't globally recognized, unless they feel like jacking the prices up for foreign patients. Not doing that is a good sign, not a bad one, imo.

It's not like this is a bargain surgeon. It's just the going rate for surgery in Turkey.

Once I'm sure my results are good, I will make a thread to gloat about how much money I saved, shit on Ramieri, and make fun of user's IQ who paid 20,000+ plus. I already have a few ideas like "what should I do with the 20k I saved?" then list all the frivolous ways I will be spending my money. If my results are bad, I'll just delete my account.

Turkish guy sitting across from me at the cafe is extremely good looking. Solid 8. Eyelashes and eye color are everything.
Click to expand...
Pls @ me in your thread about the result. Wish you luck :)
 
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longjohnmong said:
Yeah, if you look at @anticel's simulation the bottom lip is much further projected than in his actual result. Even the chin is further forward I think.

screenshot_20230710_143430_inshot-jpg.2311436


It does seem large, but most of it is coming from the rotation, which is 8.5mm. Anticel got 13 degree, and was less recessed than I am. The surgeon's reasoning was kinda simple. He rotated to what he thinks is a "very good" occlusal angle and then did an additional 3mm linear advancement to give my airway more room. My airway actually looks super fucking narrow, and you can see how recessed I am even with the chin implant. I think this is the middle slice?

View attachment 2419135
Click to expand...
That is really thin, I'm surprised you don't have sleep apnea. do you know how wide it is at the narrowest point? mine is 2.4mm at the narrowest point and my maxilla is going to go forward 4mm, all from rotation. I wonder what the standard is on airway size for curing sleep apnea. I also just noticed it seems like your lower incisors are really pointing outwards?
 
slop slinger said:
That is really thin, I'm surprised you don't have sleep apnea. do you know how wide it is at the narrowest point? mine is 2.4mm at the narrowest point and my maxilla is going to go forward 4mm, all from rotation. I wonder what the standard is on airway size for curing sleep apnea. I also just noticed it seems like your lower incisors are really pointing outwards?
Click to expand...
I found a point where it was a bit wider:

4ff


But still pretty narrow. It's possible I do have sleep apnea and just don't know it. All I know for sure is that I don't frequently wake up gasping for air. I do feel tired a lot. And, no, I don't know the width. Dr. Safi estimated 3mm but I think the part he was looking at was actually wider than what's pictured there as it was from my first CBCT that had a narrower field of view.

I heard in passing, maybe on jawsurgeryforums that sleep apnea requires bigger movements, or maybe it was on Alfaro's website.

Yeah, that's weird. They don't look that way in real life and no one else has mentioned it. The first ortho I went to even said something like "they can't decompensate your teeth because they're not compensated in the first place," and tilting out like that is the type of compensation he was talking about.
 
Man, one question for you: how do you do it to have the courage to do this? Like, I think I could see myself booking the first appointments at all but I would be freaking out just before the internship and probably flee the country
 
hansmoleman said:
Man, one question for you: how do you do it to have the courage to do this? Like, I think I could see myself booking the first appointments at all but I would be freaking out just before the internship and probably flee the country
Click to expand...
I'm currently more nervous about the inevitably akward experience of trying to get lunch without speaking Turkish.
 
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coke said:
I think it's fine to cheap out on anything as long as you research. I don't doubt at all that @longjohnmong has researched his Bimax and the person operating and the other people involved.

When it comes to Genioplasty, I've actually seen good results from the NHS Free UK ones, so I feel like a Genioplasty should be fine to cheap out on as long as you actually research the surgeon and I can't stress this enough.. make sure they have before and afters, if they don't, red flag.

​

Click to expand...
NHS free? I have serious lower back/spine issue and they refuse to do even an MRI. How the fuck are you getting them to agree to cosmetic surgery? Even if there's an issue with your jaw, unless it's severely debilitating, they don't do anything. Free healthcare in the UK is an absolute joke.
 
Looking forward to your update post. I need rhino and Turkiye or Iran seems to be the places to go.
 
hansmoleman said:
Man, one question for you: how do you do it to have the courage to do this? Like, I think I could see myself booking the first appointments at all but I would be freaking out just before the internship and probably flee the country
Click to expand...
No, but the real answer is I do a lot of traveling for work and have also had multiple arguably worse surgeries. All that shit made me terribly nervous but I've gotten to the point where I'm relatively comfortable with it. You have to realize that stuff is usually worse in your imagination. For instance, I am now eating lunch and it wasn't that awkward. Also, most people believe they will live forever on an emotional level, so their emotions are calibrated as though eternity is at stake. Since I have fully accepted the finality and absoluteness of death, the complete loss of everything, the only thing at risk for me is a few decades of mostly mundane shit.

Ideally you'd get this shit over with as a teen so you don't waste the rest of your life being afraid of shit. That's probably what rites of passage we're all about but we've completely abandoned them. Imagine doing that bullet ant glove shit and experiencing the worst pain possible for a human to experience when you're like 15.

Also, you just take shit one step at a time.
 
Last edited:
JohnDoe said:
Looking forward to your update post. I need rhino and Turkiye or Iran seems to be the places to go.
Click to expand...
There's a girl sitting at the restaurant next to me with a fresh rhino, probably the 10th person I've seen so far with one.
 
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JohnDoe said:
NHS free? I have serious lower back/spine issue and they refuse to do even an MRI. How the fuck are you getting them to agree to cosmetic surgery? Even if there's an issue with your jaw, unless it's severely debilitating, they don't do anything. Free healthcare in the UK is an absolute joke.
Click to expand...
It's free for those with recessed jaws, because they require double jaw surgery as pushed by an orthodontist. I'm told I ''might'' be a candidate, but probably not and if I was, 5 year waiting list or more. I'm saying I've seen good results from those who NEED jaw surgery and got it on the NHS.
 
coke said:
It's free for those with recessed jaws, because they require double jaw surgery as pushed by an orthodontist. I'm told I ''might'' be a candidate, but probably not and if I was, 5 year waiting list or more. I'm saying I've seen good results from those who NEED jaw surgery and got it on the NHS.
Click to expand...
And how does one even get to that point? Who do you see to get assessed for jaw surgery eligibility? Result might be good but they aren't focused on aesthetics and my personal experience has been that private doctors/dentists/etc are far more competent than NHS ones and that's why they're private.
Also JFL at those with recessed jaws when most guys are recessed here and have narrow jaws.
 
longjohnmong said:
There's a girl sitting at the restaurant next to me with a fresh rhino, probably the 10th person I've seen so far with one.
Click to expand...
In turkey you'll see a lot of people who have gotten nose job, veneers, hair transplants and other surgeries, it just so happens that Bimax is pretty invasive and still relatively new on a popular cosmetic standpoint.
 
JohnDoe said:
And how does one even get to that point? Who do you see to get assessed for jaw surgery eligibility? Result might be good but they aren't focused on aesthetics and my personal experience has been that private doctors/dentists/etc are far more competent than NHS ones and that's why they're private.
Also JFL at those with recessed jaws when most guys are recessed here and have narrow jaws.
Click to expand...
My cousin got a double jaw surgery and her orthodontist recommended it, her jaw was recessed. My friend from school had a slight underbite and asked for one, he had to fight for it but had it done within 5 years, it just so happens that often times the NHS ones aren't for an aesthetic result, my friend looks great, my cousin does not. It's rare to get an aesthetic doctor, which is why private is so sought after, but if you speak to the doctor about movements/ideas they will tell you what they think is too far and you can definitely push the boundaries like my friend done.

Many people would rather just jump and go private than waste time going through the orthodontist/doctor, me included. I'd feel much more secure paying for it and getting to discuss movements, potential implants and more as opposed to putting my hands in that of an NHS surgeon and HOPING they do me well, because unless it's someone like Dr Heliotis, they aren't letting you have any input. I'm from Scotland, maybe it's different here.
 
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JohnDoe said:
And how does one even get to that point? Who do you see to get assessed for jaw surgery eligibility? Result might be good but they aren't focused on aesthetics and my personal experience has been that private doctors/dentists/etc are far more competent than NHS ones and that's why they're private.
Also JFL at those with recessed jaws when most guys are recessed here and have narrow jaws.
Click to expand...
Also often times they are private to make more money and aren't as rushed as NHS doctors/dentists are. My NHS dentist is incredible and was actually the one who spotted my jaw recession and helped me understand it, I spoke to my Doctor who showed me people with recessed chins fully like birds like ''see, you don't have that!'' and was trying to bluepill me, but my dentist is pretty blackpilled and told me I need to speak with a Maxillofacial Surgeon. I've been trying to do this for 2 years, but have funds saved, it's just when I bite the bullet and go ahead with it.
 
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coke said:
My cousin got a double jaw surgery and her orthodontist recommended it, her jaw was recessed. My friend from school had a slight underbite and asked for one, he had to fight for it but had it done within 5 years, it just so happens that often times the NHS ones aren't for an aesthetic result, my friend looks great, my cousin does not. It's rare to get an aesthetic doctor, which is why private is so sought after, but if you speak to the doctor about movements/ideas they will tell you what they think is too far and you can definitely push the boundaries like my friend done.

Many people would rather just jump and go private than waste time going through the orthodontist/doctor, me included. I'd feel much more secure paying for it and getting to discuss movements, potential implants and more as opposed to putting my hands in that of an NHS surgeon and HOPING they do me well, because unless it's someone like Dr Heliotis, they aren't letting you have any input. I'm from Scotland, maybe it's different here.
Click to expand...
Yh public is a coinflip and that's not what you want for something like your face. Private costs a lot but even if you save up for 2 years, still faster than nhs. Waiting lists for every surgery is ridiculous. Massive backlogs.
coke said:
Also often times they are private to make more money and aren't as rushed as NHS doctors/dentists are. My NHS dentist is incredible and was actually the one who spotted my jaw recession and helped me understand it, I spoke to my Doctor who showed me people with recessed chins fully like birds like ''see, you don't have that!'' and was trying to bluepill me, but my dentist is pretty blackpilled and told me I need to speak with a Maxillofacial Surgeon. I've been trying to do this for 2 years, but have funds saved, it's just when I bite the bullet and go ahead with it.
Click to expand...
Most doctors are totally bluepilled, dentists are often better in that regard.
 
coke said:
Also often times they are private to make more money and aren't as rushed as NHS doctors/dentists are. My NHS dentist is incredible and was actually the one who spotted my jaw recession and helped me understand it, I spoke to my Doctor who showed me people with recessed chins fully like birds like ''see, you don't have that!'' and was trying to bluepill me, but my dentist is pretty blackpilled and told me I need to speak with a Maxillofacial Surgeon. I've been trying to do this for 2 years, but have funds saved, it's just when I bite the bullet and go ahead with it.
Click to expand...
Let's just hope your surgeon doesn't operate on you while on @coke.
 
slop slinger said:
The simulation Pagnoni did for me also looked kind of dogmaxxed, but I'm assured its good movements. I really doubt how useful these programs (at least Dolphin, which I understand is what most use) are for visualizing the results and the "before" doesnt even look recognizably enough like me to merit any import. 7.6mm maxilla though does seem like large movement compared to what I've heard even in aggressive cases but of course I don't know your face and can't read anything into skull shapes.
Click to expand...
I've seen his side before rhino and chin implant. He needs it
 
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coke said:
Also often times they are private to make more money and aren't as rushed as NHS doctors/dentists are. My NHS dentist is incredible and was actually the one who spotted my jaw recession and helped me understand it, I spoke to my Doctor who showed me people with recessed chins fully like birds like ''see, you don't have that!'' and was trying to bluepill me, but my dentist is pretty blackpilled and told me I need to speak with a Maxillofacial Surgeon. I've been trying to do this for 2 years, but have funds saved, it's just when I bite the bullet and go ahead with it.
Click to expand...
Did anyone diagnose with BDD?
 
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longjohnmong said:
No, but the real answer is I do a lot of traveling for work and have also had multiple arguably worse surgeries. All that shit made me terribly nervous but I've gotten to the point where I'm relatively comfortable with it. You have to realize that stuff is usually worse in your imagination. For instance, I am now eating lunch and it wasn't that awkward. Also, most people believe they will live forever on an emotional level, so their emotions are calibrated as though eternity is at stake. Since I have fully accepted the finality and absoluteness of death, the complete loss of everything, the only thing at risk for me is a few decades of mostly mundane shit.

Ideally you'd get this shit over with as a teen so you don't waste the rest of your life being afraid of shit. That's probably what rites of passage we're all about but we've completely abandoned them. Imagine doing that bullet ant glove shit and experiencing the worst pain possible for a human to experience when you're like 15.

Also, you just take shit one step at a time.
Click to expand...

I also travel a lot for work, so this part doesn't stress me. But the surgery itself... that's scary shit. I admire your courage and really hope I find it in my case. Never had any surgery so...

Best of luck
 
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Allornothing said:
I’m obviously concerned about surgeon experience and quality.
Click to expand...
Just look in a few forums like jawsurgerys or Bimax groups. But Genio is not that complex. I mean you also plan the surgery 3D I think or hope bruh
 
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My translator at the hospital is originally from Chad. A good omen?
 
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Am I Chad now?

IMG20230908214651
 
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Pakicel said:
I figured you'd be barely conscious after waking up.
Click to expand...
Yes from Anastehesia but after surgery you don’t have a lot of pain. It gets worse after first day. And then after 3 days to a week it gets better again. It’s just like getting an infect. At first your okay but then your are like wtf
 
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