100% true, and I am just now noticing it. I have very little fat under my eyes, there will be no way to bypass saddle infra implants.
You maxilla is recessed and mse doesn’t really give any anterior projection of the maxilla lol. You are just getting camouflage orthodontics but your maxilla will still be recessed lol.
I never stated MSE gave any anterior projection, nor it has been my goal with it. My teeth are a mess and I have an open bite, but this is not the same as saying my maxilla is recessed.
If your maxofacial surgeon said you could benefit from all that then you are literally recessed asf. CCW is for downward growth, BSSO for mandibular projection, and Genio for chin projection. Sounds recessed to me brah.
My chin is considerably recessed and I have a high gonial angle, I am not denying that. But strangely enough my maxilla is correctly projected. This same surgeon said he was not willing to give me more than 3 mm at max of lefort 1 because I did not need it.
Lol so what are you still just gonna cope with orthodontics when you are obviously recessed asf? And you still might need rotation of the maxilla even if you don’t necessarily get a lot of linear advancement.
damn, looking forward to seeing how the cheekbones and the hollowing will look at full expansion
Just shove the lower half of your maxilla forward bro
Keep barking greycel. His Maxofacial surgeon literally told him he’s recessed lol but he’s coping with braces and MSE.
I could have gotten segmental lefort (in fact, the surgeon I went to recommended it to me) but I really wanted the midface improvements MSE provides. So it will be a longer route and more expensive, but hopefully more worth it in the end.
No, I do not expect facemask to cause much of a change, plus it would be impossible for me to wear it at the workplace. I will address the sagittal plane once I am done with MSE + orthodontics.
There is no need to get mad. My bones are far from perfect, and your concerns are legit. I have decided to get MSE + aligners to fix my bite and address my lack of midfacial width. Will it be enough? Probably not, this is why I am planning to get bimax with implants so that all dimensions of my face are fixed.
little do you know lmao. I’ve basically already done what you are planning to do which is camouflage orthodontics lol. You know that if you plan to get jaw surgery later you may likely have to decompensate the teeth anyway?
literally caging at you you absolute dumbass. He literally has a skeletal class III and an open bite. Braces and MSE will not correct his skeletal class III as an adult
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Lmfao. Not another utterance
Op literally says he will pursue bimax in the future yet he is going to compensate his bite
. He will have to DECOMPENSATE when he wants bimax in the future anyway lol. That is all I’m saying. Laughably enough you are the one aruging with ghosts you dumbass.
I DARE you to show me somebody 18 or older getting 20mm of lateral skeletal movement from MSE
It will literally be a total waste of time lol. You will compensate the bite just to decompensate the bite right after lmao. Decompensation can take anywhere from 12-18 months lol.
Hey, your point is a valid one.
Off a glance you look like a Class III to me. Yeah still pursue MSE as I think it typically has the best results on Class III patients.
This here is camouflage orthodontics. I spoke to a maxofacial surgeon about this. There are two different occlusions.
Mirin hard.
Where are you from?
Where are you from?
If you can fly to other countries I am sure you will find someone nearby. Check these providers:
The "no MSE/expansion after jaw surgery" thing seems to be down to orthos simply not being confident is pulling apart a structure that has already had work done. The expansion providers who are maxfax surgeons (e.g. Li) seem to be much more willing to do it, which makes sense as they have the tools and training to deal with the potential complexities that can come up. Its obviously optimal to expand first and advance later but skilled jaw surgeons are used to doing revision surgeries so its not necessarily going to be a huge deal to them.
. For a moment I thought I would need another MSE. Fortunately they have scanned me and the four screws remain where they should be, thus I will just have to wait 4 months so that the two sides of the split maxilla can be fused together. The gum on the right side is a bit inflamed. It does hurt but with time it should subside. Aesthetically the changes have been minimal but I was not expecting radical changes tbh. The plan remains: first fix the bite and the go for trimax + implants.
Many people report negative aesthetic changes after MSE. What’s your experience like regarding looks change. You touched on it somewhatGiven that some days ago I stopped expanding, this is the last update on the MSE:
View attachment 2393573View attachment 2393574
- Day: 48
- Turns: 51
- Expansion: 8.5 mm
- Comments: the two images above are from literally now, just the inclination differs. Overall the process was successful, I have much more room for my tongue now, breathing is easier, the cheekbones are bit more laterally projected, the mid face a bit fuller, and the nose has barely changed. My palate remains very vaulted but at least it has a decent IMW. You may notice the inclination of the screw in the second picture. Once I activated the device, I just heard a noise as if something had just been broken. In reality, I expanded the device more than was expected and it ended up bending. My ortho said today he forgot to tell me this would happen
@Giorgio @NegativeNorwood @Yassin @slop slinger @nobodyspecial369 @noprogressno @AscendingHero @malicieusss @canon5d @ccwwarrior @mvp2v1
Temper your expectations.
bruhMy ortho said today he forgot to tell me this would happen
I have to say that compared to the starting point the arch now looks very nice, congrats
Out of the hypothesis I formulated initially, some of them have been validated and some have not. For instance, the cheekbones are a bit more laterally projected, I have expanded the palate the millimeters I was hoping for, the smile is wider, but the under eye support has not improved a single bit. In terms of aesthetics, assuming a sealed mouth, the changes are minimal. Some people tend to view MSE as a transformational device that will all of a sudden provide them with model tier cheekbones, but the reality is far from it. In my case I am most happy about the lateral projection of the zygomatic process. Specially on my right side, my cheekbone was sunken, which caused the bitemporal width to be wider than the bizygomatic width. The change in my face silhouette looks something like this (poorly drawn but you get the idea):
So not a lot of changes have happened during this time. Below you can see what my palate looks like. Pretty much the same as before but without the inflammation. I have had a relatively nice anterior expansion and in terms of width, the canines have to be tilted outwards, so horizontally-wise the arch will look a bit better. The thing is, we have to wait about 3 months for the bone to fuse. During this time it is a matter of moving the lower teeth with braces to do some work before the aligners.
How is your palate expansion going on ? Are you also expanding mandibular too ??
As of now the suture has fused but we are further expanding at the alveolar bone level with corticotomies in the upper arch. This will help at having a slightly wider arch and getting rid of the buccal corridors I still have. The process will take a few months due to the nature of aligners but I hope to update you all towards summer once this is finished.
Is corticomy for mandibular(lower jaw ) better than msdo(dame) , will corticomy widen your chin too ?
Corticotomies move the teeth at the alveolar bone level. In fact, this is the bone they are cutting in the procedure. This will relieve crowding as teeth will have more space but the underlying bone will remain the same. So to answer the question, it will not affect your chin, and msdo is more promising if you want real change in the mandible. I would only recommend corticotomies to fix a dental problem
I have wide face but my pallet is narrow( not straight teeth + I have to adjust my tongue to fix it on upper palate ) so should I do corticomies for upper jaw instead of mse , I also want to get rid of buccal corridors ?
Hard to tell without looking at pictures. Having said that, if I were you I would go for corticotomies in case you need moderate levels of expansion, below 5 mm. Ideally you could combine it with bone grafting to have a greater margin of movement (this is technically called SFOT). If you need more than that and want to get close to 1 cm of expansion then MSE may be a better option, assuming your cheekbones are not that protruding.
Thank you for your suggestion. Does mse help in getting forward (protruding) cheekbones? , I have high and wide cheekbones but they are flat, I think it is because of narrow palate.
Any update on your situation? How's your corticomies going ?
It can help, but the result is quite hard to predict. My cheekbones got a bit more well defined, but results may be very case-dependent.
So far so good. The first days were complicated due to all the bloating, but now it is progressing as expected. My bottom teeth start being more aligned and the upper arch is becoming a bit wider, especially on the front as the canines are getting pushed out. I cannot really say much more than that because it has been less than 1 month with them, but I plan on providing updates whenever there is more progress. We are supposed to have a couple more months to move the alveolar bone before the effects of corticotomies vanish, so we will see.
Damn so does widening the palate increases mouth width too(lips length)? I kinda have narrow lips.
