Dietary fibre is heavily underrated and should be increased significantly in the diet.

[Skywalker]

Also just because something is low “nutrition value” hence should be avoided also makes 0 sense. Water has no calories , spring water which has many benefits also only has CO2. Although fiber especially soluble ones run the risk of yeast formation , and slowing down gut transit time , increasing serotonin etc. insoluble fibers bind the toxins present in the gut and help excrete it precisely because it is insoluble . This thread is full of retards strawmanning

im sorry bro but you're TOO DEEP into the diet rabbit hole and into the ray peat forum
people there sound like PHDs in nutrition, which is excessive
you need to focus on other areas in your life

fiber causes diseases
ill post one of my youtube vids on it if i find it

 

[Deleted member 23558]

JOHN BURKHAUSEN: I see. As long as we’re on the subject of digestion, how important is it that people have regular bowl movements?

RAY PEAT: I think like the person who popularized fiber 40, 50 years ago in the US, was studying the African relative freedom from bowel problems, cancer, and he saw that they typically would have three bowel movements a day and that they ate lots of potatoes, that it was the fiber in the potato stimulating the intestine that seemed to protect their bowl. So he published these about the benefits of fiber and the cereal industry in the US started selling oat bran as the preventive of colon cancer, which caught on in the 70s, but then in the 80's some Australians tested oat bran diets on animals and found that it promoted – increased the incidence of bowel cancer apparently by the nature of the breakdown products.

JOHN BURKHAUSEN: Yeah. I don’t think that knowledge has ever gotten around.

RAY PEAT: Not very well. But, in general, fiber does clean the intestine and keeping it moving lowers the estrogen re-absorption. The bile puts out – tries to get rid of toxic materials, including the estrogen. And if you don’t have a regular movement through the intestine, a lot of that gets recycled, reabsorbed and raises your general exposure to toxins, including estrogen.


Here is another quote from a different podcast:

RAY PEAT: Calcium, if you have a high ratio of calcium to phosphate, calcium happens to suppress the fermentation of fiber and starch in the intestine, so high calcium intake will actually reduce the production of the endotoxin as well as reducing the consequences of your reaction to the endotoxin. The saturated fats – having some fat in your food does various things that can be helpful. There is a germicidal effect of the fatty acids that helps to keep the intestine sterile and you should be able to absorb your fat by roughly half to two-thirds of the way down your small intestine where it’s still sterile. But if you eat fat with a fiber, the fat helps to suppress the bacteria and it can help the fiber persist and go all the way through your intestine. So it can turn what would be a harmful fiber supporting endotoxin, it can turn it into a useful sort of a bowel stimulating bulk-former."

And notice in this quote how he talks about fat:

RAY PEAT: "Yes, there are some studies that show that the toxic effect of these fibers that can cause anxiety, aggression and bowel cancer, fats defend against those processes by probably suppressing bacterial growth, and the best fats at suppressing bacterial and fungal growth in the intestine are the saturated fats, so butter and coconut oil for example are protective against the fibers, so it's important to include some of those in your daily intake. And if you get enough protein 80 to 100 calories or more – 80 to 100 grams per day or more, and if you consider the importance of fat and the essentiality of protein, then that leaves you only a certain amount for carbohydrate and that I think is where the fruit sugar and other sugars are a safe bet even if all the rest of your calories are in the form of fruit and other sugars I think that's safe as long as you're getting your saturated fat and protein."

And another...

RAY PEAT: Starches and indigestible fibers have been tested on various animals, from horses to rats and practically all of the fibers that are used as food additives carrageenan and guar gum, various other gums, oat bran and even some of the semi-synthetic things, Metamucil, agar and psyllium, all have been identified as carcinogens for the intestine and possibly other organs and getting those out quickly before they support bacterial growth...

SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY: ... and ferment.

RAY PEAT: Yeah. The fermentative bacteria are known to increase the serotonin and lactic acid production.

SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY: And the endotoxin that we have mentioned.

RAY PEAT: Yeah. There’s a back and forth increase of endotoxin by the serotonin and vice versa.

Later in the same podcast:

RAY PEAT: Denis Burkitt, who sort of started the fiber fad about 30 years ago when he discovered that Africans didn’t have a very high incidence of bowel and liver cancer and that they tended to have three bowel movements per day, where Americans are more likely to have one or fewer, and he said that he thought fiber prevented the retention of the carcinogenic toxins, but he was talking primarily about potatoes. And when he came to the US and saw that people were interpreting it as oat fiber, oat bran, and various other grain fibers, a few people outside of the US did research showing that, in fact, those increase cancer incidences.

Last one (promise)

CALLER: OK and so like the potato skin, obviously that is not digestible so that’s gonna probably sit in the intestine and feed bacteria or is that going to pass through too?

RAY PEAT: No, cellulose is a very harmless fiber because bacteria generally can't break it down. Only a few types of bacteria can attack cellulose so it passes through just as bulky fiber. But the potato family, like the tomatoes, the whole family includes chemicals that are highly allergenic, so if you are allergic to tomatoes you are likely to have some reaction to chillies, eggplants and ray peat: potatoes too.

CALLER: So are you saying the whole potato in general or the skin itself.

RAY PEAT: The skin has the most allergens.

CALLER: OK, so it is a good idea to peel that then, more than likely?

RAY PEAT: Yeah.

 

[Skywalker]

JOHN BURKHAUSEN: I see. As long as we’re on the subject of digestion, how important is it that people have regular bowl movements?

RAY PEAT: I think like the person who popularized fiber 40, 50 years ago in the US, was studying the African relative freedom from bowel problems, cancer, and he saw that they typically would have three bowel movements a day and that they ate lots of potatoes, that it was the fiber in the potato stimulating the intestine that seemed to protect their bowl. So he published these about the benefits of fiber and the cereal industry in the US started selling oat bran as the preventive of colon cancer, which caught on in the 70s, but then in the 80's some Australians tested oat bran diets on animals and found that it promoted – increased the incidence of bowel cancer apparently by the nature of the breakdown products.

JOHN BURKHAUSEN: Yeah. I don’t think that knowledge has ever gotten around.

RAY PEAT: Not very well. But, in general, fiber does clean the intestine and keeping it moving lowers the estrogen re-absorption. The bile puts out – tries to get rid of toxic materials, including the estrogen. And if you don’t have a regular movement through the intestine, a lot of that gets recycled, reabsorbed and raises your general exposure to toxins, including estrogen.


Here is another quote from a different podcast:

RAY PEAT: Calcium, if you have a high ratio of calcium to phosphate, calcium happens to suppress the fermentation of fiber and starch in the intestine, so high calcium intake will actually reduce the production of the endotoxin as well as reducing the consequences of your reaction to the endotoxin. The saturated fats – having some fat in your food does various things that can be helpful. There is a germicidal effect of the fatty acids that helps to keep the intestine sterile and you should be able to absorb your fat by roughly half to two-thirds of the way down your small intestine where it’s still sterile. But if you eat fat with a fiber, the fat helps to suppress the bacteria and it can help the fiber persist and go all the way through your intestine. So it can turn what would be a harmful fiber supporting endotoxin, it can turn it into a useful sort of a bowel stimulating bulk-former."

And notice in this quote how he talks about fat:

RAY PEAT: "Yes, there are some studies that show that the toxic effect of these fibers that can cause anxiety, aggression and bowel cancer, fats defend against those processes by probably suppressing bacterial growth, and the best fats at suppressing bacterial and fungal growth in the intestine are the saturated fats, so butter and coconut oil for example are protective against the fibers, so it's important to include some of those in your daily intake. And if you get enough protein 80 to 100 calories or more – 80 to 100 grams per day or more, and if you consider the importance of fat and the essentiality of protein, then that leaves you only a certain amount for carbohydrate and that I think is where the fruit sugar and other sugars are a safe bet even if all the rest of your calories are in the form of fruit and other sugars I think that's safe as long as you're getting your saturated fat and protein."

And another...

RAY PEAT: Starches and indigestible fibers have been tested on various animals, from horses to rats and practically all of the fibers that are used as food additives carrageenan and guar gum, various other gums, oat bran and even some of the semi-synthetic things, Metamucil, agar and psyllium, all have been identified as carcinogens for the intestine and possibly other organs and getting those out quickly before they support bacterial growth...

SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY: ... and ferment.

RAY PEAT: Yeah. The fermentative bacteria are known to increase the serotonin and lactic acid production.

SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY: And the endotoxin that we have mentioned.

RAY PEAT: Yeah. There’s a back and forth increase of endotoxin by the serotonin and vice versa.

Later in the same podcast:

RAY PEAT: Denis Burkitt, who sort of started the fiber fad about 30 years ago when he discovered that Africans didn’t have a very high incidence of bowel and liver cancer and that they tended to have three bowel movements per day, where Americans are more likely to have one or fewer, and he said that he thought fiber prevented the retention of the carcinogenic toxins, but he was talking primarily about potatoes. And when he came to the US and saw that people were interpreting it as oat fiber, oat bran, and various other grain fibers, a few people outside of the US did research showing that, in fact, those increase cancer incidences.

Last one (promise)

CALLER: OK and so like the potato skin, obviously that is not digestible so that’s gonna probably sit in the intestine and feed bacteria or is that going to pass through too?

RAY PEAT: No, cellulose is a very harmless fiber because bacteria generally can't break it down. Only a few types of bacteria can attack cellulose so it passes through just as bulky fiber. But the potato family, like the tomatoes, the whole family includes chemicals that are highly allergenic, so if you are allergic to tomatoes you are likely to have some reaction to chillies, eggplants and ray peat: potatoes too.

CALLER: So are you saying the whole potato in general or the skin itself.

RAY PEAT: The skin has the most allergens.

CALLER: OK, so it is a good idea to peel that then, more than likely?

RAY PEAT: Yeah.

l

 

[Gargamel]

That study you linked, N= 62
Read through it, never reports baseline characteristics never even bothers to report how they defined high, reduced and no fibre. Is high fibre 20g, 50g, 100g? etc. they never specify. Also you cannot generalise treatments for those with intestinal issues to those without a healthy GI tract function

Yes, the study is low N and has design problems, but look at the results. If the fiber theory was correct, then the 0 fiber group should have been bleeding from their ass.

I can't find any other controlled clinical studies related to fiber.

Please, send me anything good you've found, however, if it's epidemiology don't bother.

The main reason fiber is non-essential and contraindicated in the human diet is because in the first place we aren't designed to eat plant material at all.

Fiber won't have to push out toxins, estrogen, and other garbage if you are eating exclusively meat. Red meat is fully digested by the time it reaches the end of your small intestine.

Dairy is bad for most people, raw or not, it activates the Randle cycle and we lack the enzymes to deal with it. Yes, fiber can help push out the excess estrogen from dairy but that's just reductionist cherry picking. Fiber also binds to minerals, does mechanical damage to the gut lining and promotes yeast and bacterial overgrowth. It raises the temperature in the colon due to the accumulation of gases and promotes infertility since it heats up the ovaries and testes.

As far as personal anecdotes go, all my GI problems dissappeared when i stopped eating fiber and plant foods in general. My gut health wasn't horrible to say but it was far from optimal.

 

[ConfusedBolivian]

The effects of dietary fibre is underrated, recommendations range from 25-30g per day which less than 90% of people meet however that’s a far cry from what humans likely ate ancestrally.

It’s estimated dietary fibre intake of early humans was >100g per day due to pre-domesticated plants being naturally higher in fibre + the inclusion of roots and tubers


I want to focus on certain kinds of fibre specifically fermentable fibres found predominantly in resistant starches in the form of saccarides.

Short chain fatty acid (SFA) producing bacteria release byproducts from fermenting fibre, one of these byproducts is butyrate which has known cardio metabolic health benefits

A meta-analyses of human RCT’s, see table 2 for studies finding increases in butyrate or butyrate forming bacteria colonies

Butyrate is correlated neuroprotective properties but it also has a fat burning and lean mass sparing effect, particularly in the abdominal region [1], [2].

First study is a human study in women, second is a nice study using supplementation both show promising results.

Bonus:
Dietary fibre also reduces estrogen by binding circulating estrogen preventing them from re-absorption and excretes it. It also reduces all-cause mortality post adjustments in large scale studies following a dose response relationship.

You could potentially supplement butyrate but they are scarce and not well tested. Instead look to increase butyrate production by consuming fermentable fibre sources follow the FODMAP list of veges stands for “fermentable oligosaccharides, disaccharides, monosaccharides and polyols”

Since you don’t have IBS instead of avoiding said foods on list look to increase them.
View attachment 2732149

Just eat indigestible carbs theory, retardation tbh

 

[Skywalker]

It’s not an essential nutrient but there’s evidence of benefit. Gorillas dont readily digest most of their fibre, they ferment it like us just a lot more. Generally speaking most studies find benefit with fibre post-adjustment, even fibre supplementation.

its just hair bro....

 

[HealthBrahhh]

Yes, the study is low N and has design problems, but look at the results. If the fiber theory was correct, then the 0 fiber group should have been bleeding from their ass.

I can't find any other controlled clinical studies related to fiber.

Please, send me anything good you've found, however, if it's epidemiology don't bother.

The main reason fiber is non-essential and contraindicated in the human diet is because in the first place we aren't designed to eat plant material at all.

Fiber won't have to push out toxins, estrogen, and other garbage if you are eating exclusively meat. Red meat is fully digested by the time it reaches the end of your small intestine.

Dairy is bad for most people, raw or not, it activates the Randle cycle and we lack the enzymes to deal with it. Yes, fiber can help push out the excess estrogen from dairy but that's just reductionist cherry picking. Fiber also binds to minerals, does mechanical damage to the gut lining and promotes yeast and bacterial overgrowth. It raises the temperature in the colon due to the accumulation of gases and promotes infertility since it heats up the ovaries and testes.

As far as personal anecdotes go, all my GI problems dissappeared when i stopped eating fiber and plant foods in general. My gut health wasn't horrible to say but it was far from optimal.

How do you detox then? Don't fiber help a lot for detox?

Also, how do you get your calcium? The c isn't important?