Frame vs Muscles

[St. Wristcel]

Frame is giga cope:
View attachment 676850

i doubt most people have these genetics however. Nice regardless.

 

[randomuser2407]

View attachment 676843

This just proves my point, like I was saying, the whole "arm hanging look" is due to wide lats, your lats are naturally wide even though your arms are quite small, this is due to genetics, your back is your strong point, whereas for some men it may be their arms, for you, it's your back. You have the look of someone who only does weighted chin ups but since you never did them, if you started doing them, your lats would get even bigger than they are right now. The lats are the sides of your back, the part that sticks out on the side and gives you the V taper look. But like I said, your strong point is your entire back, so your lower back and your upper back are muscular even though you probably never tried to train them.

 

[Deleted member 7725]

i doubt most people have these genetics however. Nice regardless.

It's not genetics. It's steroids.

 

[Bigfatpersonboy]

Frame first. If you have weak bitch boy frame just build muscles to make it look better. If you have nice incel muscles but shit frame it doesn’t matter. It doesn’t accentuate anything, it’s like spraying perfume on a pile of shite.

what does a bad frame even look like

 

[fogdart]

This framecel overcame his destiny with muscles though

 

[fogdart]

Lat width is very important, it can give you a super wide appearance and just the posture alone will make you look amazing. You haven't truly trained your lats to their max unless you can do weighted chin ups with 100 lbs, it's impossible to have small lats at that point. What I would recommend though is to not just train the lats, but every body part, do a full body program that you do 3 times per week (stronglifts, ICF 2.0 or starting strength) and run that for a 6-12 months and then get on an intermediate full body program that has linear periodization and run that for 1-2 years and every muscle in your body will be huge. That is the proper way to gymmax, most normies never achieve this.

rate my frame & muscle

 

[St. Wristcel]

what does a bad frame even look like

Fogdart posted a good example

 

[0Ace0]

rate my frame & muscle

Frame is decent, slightly above average, muscle is good too
Keep gymmaxxing and you will mog most guys

 

[Deleted member 7521]

Frame is decent, slightly above average, muscle is good too
Keep gymmaxxing and you will mog most guys

His frame is way above average lmao not slightly

 

[0Ace0]

His frame is way above average lmao no slightly

Nope he is above average but not way above

This is

 

[Deleted member 7521]

Nope he is above average but not way above
View attachment 677025
This is

Comparing different positions and poses man

 

[0Ace0]

Comparing different positions and poses man

Same guy

 

[Yoyo2233]

A manlet with muscle mass is still a manlet. But an average looking guy who is really tall will look a lot better with a very muscular ripped body than a skinny lanklet body, the difference is huge. While for the short guy, there isn't a huge difference in SMV, he will just look less nerdy and childish than the skinny manlets, but he will still look tiny, so although short guys should still get muscular, it won't put them in an entirely new league, it won't give them tons of Tinder matches. But a tall skinny guy who gets muscular can truly change his dating life if he gets muscular enough. Those who claim that women don't care about muscles clearly don't have big muscles themselves or they don't go out enough to notice the difference. No matter what you look like, getting muscular and ripped will still help you, but whether it will help a lot or just a little depends on your frame. Your frame is only dependent on your height, not any other factor. The reason why some guys have more muscle mass than others at the start is due to their starting genetics being different but in the end, their muscular potential may be very similar if they have the same height. There is not a big difference in genetics for muscle building when you look at 2 people who are at their peak, the only difference is the time it will take for them to reach their limit, some will reach it quicker than others. There are also a lot of guys online who lie when they say they are natural, the best way to see if someone is natural or not is to see if they are strong and if so, also how strong they actually are and how much time it took them to get there, I can look at any guy and tell with 100% certainty whether they are natty or not if I am given enough information about the person.

What height and below is manlet territory

 

[randomuser2407]

What height and below is manlet territory

Anything that is below average height in your country. For the USA and Canada, average height would be 5 foot 9, so any guy who is below that is a manlet in those countries. In the Netherlands though, the average height is around 6 feet tall so a 5 foot 10 guy would be considered a manlet in that country, which is why it really depends on where you live. And the bigger the height difference between you and the average man, the more it will act as a halo. Like in my case, as a 6 foot 4 guy I get checked out by beautiful 18-20 year old girls in real life because I am 22 but look like I am 18 years old and because I am much taller than average and the lower portion of my face (jawline and mouth) is very good although the upper portion (nose and eyes) are average. But when I go to Southeast Asia, I get a lot more attention, instead of having a few pretty women who check me out, everyone checks me out because I am a nearly foot taller than the average male.

 

[randomuser2407]

rate my frame & muscle

Great upper body overall except for your lats, either you are really weak at weighted chin ups, or it's your genetics. If you can't do weighted chin ups with 100 lbs, aim for that, and your lats (V taper) will get even bigger. Also, your traps make you look like a steroid user, if you are in fact on steroids, then getting big lats shouldn't be very difficult for you, just focus a lot more on weighted chin ups and get as strong as possible on that lift and also do barbell rows and you will have a huge back. Also, you haven't shown your legs, if you have chicken legs, work on that too, big glutes will make you more attractive to women in bed and they will also make you look massive from the back when wearing sweatpants or even just jeans.

You should also improve your forearms, they look really small, big forearms can make your arms look bigger than they really are. To train them, do rack pulls above the knee and farmer's walks.

 

[fogdart]

Great upper body overall except for your lats, either you are really weak at weighted chin ups, or it's your genetics. If you can't do weighted chin ups with 100 lbs, aim for that, and your lats (V taper) will get even bigger. Also, your traps make you look like a steroid user, if you are in fact on steroids, then getting big lats shouldn't be very difficult for you, just focus a lot more on weighted chin ups and get as strong as possible on that lift and also do barbell rows and you will have a huge back. Also, you haven't shown your legs, if you have chicken legs, work on that too, big glutes will make you more attractive to women in bed and they will also make you look massive from the back when wearing sweatpants or even just jeans.

You should also improve your forearms, they look really small, big forearms can make your arms look bigger than they really are. To train them, do rack pulls above the knee and farmer's walks.

I’ll work on my lats. I’ve never touched a mg of steroid in my life. I get compliments about my ass too. My lower body is solid

 

[randomuser2407]

I’ll work on my lats. I’ve never touched a mg of steroid in my life. I get compliments about my ass too. My lower body is solid

What is your 1RM (weight for 1 Rep Max) on the 5 main compound lifts (Bench Press, Squat, Deadlift, Overhead Press, Weighted Chin Ups) ?

 

[fogdart]

What is your 1RM (weight for 1 Rep Max) on the 5 main compound lifts (Bench Press, Squat, Deadlift, Overhead Press, Weighted Chin Ups) ?

Bench press 275lbs, Squat 335, I don’t deadlift, overheard 175, I don’t do weighted chin ups. Tbh I don’t train for strength — Just high volume

 

[Deleted member 7725]

I’ll work on my lats. I’ve never touched a mg of steroid in my life. I get compliments about my ass too. My lower body is solid

iOS 11 imessage psd template pack by ckhoot on DeviantArt

www.deviantart.com

 

[fogdart]

iOS 11 imessage psd template pack by ckhoot on DeviantArt

www.deviantart.com

Lmao. It’s funny how you think this far-fetched. Thanks for the compliment.

 

[Deleted member 9344]

What is more important for body? Overall genetic frame or building muscles?

Frame is. You can easily get muscular by working out & dedication.

 

[randomuser2407]

Bench press 275lbs, Squat 335, I don’t deadlift, overheard 175, I don’t do weighted chin ups. Tbh I don’t train for strength — Just high volume

"Just high volume"
That's your biggest mistake. Why do you think your chest looks the way it does now? It's because you have a 275 lb bench press, if you were benching 135 lbs, your chest wouldn't even look muscular, and if your 1RM was 350, then your chest would be a lot bigger than it is right now. People who claim that strength and size can be isolated are idiots who don't really know what they are talking about, no natural lifter ever got big by staying weak. Progressive overload is what makes muscles bigger, sure you can do low weight with high reps and your 1RM will still increase but even by doing this, you are still training for strength AND size, you can't train for just strength or just size, unless you are on steroids. Some steroids can allow you to train just for strength while others will allow you to train just for size while others will allow you to do both. But as a natural, you can't separate the two, it's just not possible. Look at all the biggest naturals on youtube and you will see this time and time again, they are all very strong.

Your overhead press is really good which is why your shoulders look so good. Your 335 lb squat is intermediate level, you can get much better than that and seriously, if you did the deadlift, your glutes would be even bigger.

You should aim for these strength standards (for 1RM): A 100 lb weighted chin up, a 200 lb overhead press, a 315 lb bench press, a 405 lb squat, and a 500 lb deadlift. Most healthy young men can achieve those numbers in only 3 years at most, but since you are already quite strong, it should take you a lot less time, you should already be able to deadlift at least 225 lbs even if you never trained it because of your squat. Also, those are the same numbers that I plan to reach in 2-3 years.

 

[fogdart]

"Just high volume"
That's your biggest mistake. Why do you think your chest looks the way it does now? It's because you have a 275 lb bench press, if you were benching 135 lbs, your chest wouldn't even look muscular, and if your 1RM was 350, then your chest would be a lot bigger than it is right now. People who claim that strength and size can be isolated are idiots who don't really know what they are talking about, no natural lifter ever got big by staying weak. Progressive overload is what makes muscles bigger, sure you can do low weight with high reps and your 1RM will still increase but even by doing this, you are still training for strength AND size, you can't train for just strength or just size, unless you are on steroids. Some steroids can allow you to train just for strength while others will allow you to train just for size while others will allow you to do both. But as a natural, you can't separate the two, it's just not possible. Look at all the biggest naturals on youtube and you will see this time and time again, they are all very strong.

Your overhead press is really good which is why your shoulders look so good. Your 335 lb squat is intermediate level, you can get much better than that and seriously, if you did the deadlift, your glutes would be even bigger.

You should aim for these strength standards (for 1RM): A 100 lb weighted chin up, a 200 lb overhead press, a 315 lb bench press, a 405 lb squat, and a 500 lb deadlift. Most healthy young men can achieve those numbers in only 3 years at most, but since you are already quite strong, it should take you a lot less time, you should already be able to deadlift at least 225 lbs even if you never trained it because of your squat. Also, those are the same numbers that I plan to reach in 2-3 years.

Thanks for your input. I’ll improve my stats

 

[psycophsez]

Considering that frame is basically an enabler for how your physique will look with muscle on, I'd say frame it WAY more important. That said, you can overcome a bad frame to an extent by training properly, and you won't necessarily look like the people in those memes (assuming you're not short and take pictures from a decent angle). Still, it's all cope when 6'+ chad can have a good physique by playing a random sport and having lots of sex.

 

[Deleted member 7521]

"Just high volume"
That's your biggest mistake. Why do you think your chest looks the way it does now? It's because you have a 275 lb bench press, if you were benching 135 lbs, your chest wouldn't even look muscular, and if your 1RM was 350, then your chest would be a lot bigger than it is right now. People who claim that strength and size can be isolated are idiots who don't really know what they are talking about, no natural lifter ever got big by staying weak. Progressive overload is what makes muscles bigger, sure you can do low weight with high reps and your 1RM will still increase but even by doing this, you are still training for strength AND size, you can't train for just strength or just size, unless you are on steroids. Some steroids can allow you to train just for strength while others will allow you to train just for size while others will allow you to do both. But as a natural, you can't separate the two, it's just not possible. Look at all the biggest naturals on youtube and you will see this time and time again, they are all very strong.

Your overhead press is really good which is why your shoulders look so good. Your 335 lb squat is intermediate level, you can get much better than that and seriously, if you did the deadlift, your glutes would be even bigger.

You should aim for these strength standards (for 1RM): A 100 lb weighted chin up, a 200 lb overhead press, a 315 lb bench press, a 405 lb squat, and a 500 lb deadlift. Most healthy young men can achieve those numbers in only 3 years at most, but since you are already quite strong, it should take you a lot less time, you should already be able to deadlift at least 225 lbs even if you never trained it because of your squat. Also, those are the same numbers that I plan to reach in 2-3 years.

Decent advice but you're also missing out intensity, which is also a driver of hypertrophy.

Worrying about only increasing your numbers = more prone to injury

 

[nvck_pilled]

No, its the most important part in building muscle

Frontiers | Muscle Androgen Receptor Content but Not Systemic Hormones Is Associated With Resistance Training-Induced Skeletal Muscle Hypertrophy in Healthy, Young Men

The factors that underpin heterogeneity in muscle hypertrophy following resistance exercise training (RET) remain largely unknown. We examined circulating ho...

www.frontiersin.org

your natural hormones aren't gonna be able to flood your receptors anyways

 

[randomuser2407]

Decent advice but you're also missing out intensity, which is also a driver of hypertrophy.

Worrying about only increasing your numbers = more prone to injury

No, intensity matters when trying to do progressive overload, because you can't get stronger if you are not training hard enough so intensity matters too, and you have to use proper form, this is common sense which is why I didn't bother mentioning it, otherwise I would be writing a whole book, my comments already feel like essays for most people here. And, high numbers wont cause injury if you are using proper form and not using a weight that you can't handle. I'm currently on ICF 2.0 and it works really well.

 

[Deleted member 7521]

No, intensity matters when trying to do progressive overload, because you can't get stronger if you are not training hard enough so intensity matters too, and you have to use proper form, this is common sense which is why I didn't bother mentioning it, otherwise I would be writing a whole book, my comments already feel like essays for most people here. And, high numbers wont cause injury if you are using proper form and not using a weight that you can't handle. I'm currently on ICF 2.0 and it works really well.

Nice bruh would you say that doing more reps with the same weight is another form of progressive overload

 

[randomuser2407]

Nice bruh would you say that doing more reps with the same weight is another form of progressive overload

Yes of course, because you are still increasing your 1 RM by doing this. To progress on my program, I do 3x5 on most compound lifts and if I can't complete the 5 reps for all 3 sets, I try again next workout until I am able to do 3x5 perfectly, if I succeed I add 2.5 lbs on bench press, overhead press and barbell rows, and 5 lbs on squats and deadlifts. If I fail 3 times in a row, I deload by removing 10% of the weight, then I rebuild from there, then I always break through that plateau. So basically I am adding reps, and then adding weight to keep the same amount of reps, I do this because my program is high frequency, so lower reps make it easier to recover for my program.

 

[Loud_Jock]

Genetic frame. Guys with big arm/leg bones and broad shoulders don’t need to work out to be imposing and attractive. Framelets with muscle will still look small and frail with clothing on.

Yup. My brother in law has the prototypical warrior Chad build. Extremely thick and muscular limbs without working out. His forearms are so thick he can't wear dress shirts.
Even though I am more muscular he looks much more powerful and strong. He has Norwood 0 at 42 and Chad facial bones of course.

 

[0Ace0]

CopingVolcel has to be a Jason Blaha fan

 

[Deleted member 7580]

You can fraud frame with roids

 

[Mayorga]

Nope he is above average but not way above
View attachment 677025
This is

Phil Davis' frame is not big, look at that frail pelvis/tiny waist. He just has very good shoulder width that is further emphasized by his small lower torso. A truly big frame is someone like Karelin, Lesnar or Cormier even, guys who are huge all around.

 

[Deleted member 5385]

90% frame 10% muscles and most of those 10 percent is muscle insertion.
If you have Perfect frame and muscle insertion you don't need steroids cause you don't need big amount of muscle mass

 

[Baldingman1998]

Good Frame with muscle mogs everything

 

[Deleted member 8758]

Frame first. If you have weak bitch boy frame just build muscles to make it look better. If you have nice incel muscles but shit frame it doesn’t matter. It doesn’t accentuate anything, it’s like spraying perfume on a pile of shite.

you know how some girls got flat asses, I basically have that problem in the form of my deltoids. Even bulking up only results in them being fuller but having zero projection, I might as well just be been fat there.

Then I see other guys doing fuck all yet have better shoulders with less effort, they had better frames.

 

[0Ace0]

Phil Davis' frame is not big, look at that frail pelvis/tiny waist. He just has very good shoulder width that is further emphasized by his small lower torso. A truly big frame is someone like Karelin, Lesnar or Cormier even, guys who are huge all around.

Incorrect, having a large frame has little to do with having wide hips/waist. Phil Davis's hips are in the average range
Mesomorphs have larger wide frames, you do not need wide hips/waist to have a large/wide frame

 

[0Ace0]

View attachment 677758View attachment 677761View attachment 677763View attachment 677765View attachment 677767
90% frame 10% muscles and most of those 10 percent is muscle insertion.
If you have Perfect frame and muscle insertion you don't need steroids cause you don't need big amount of muscle mass

Muscle insertion is equally as important.

 

[Pietrosiek]

Muscles win.

5/10 frame with 10/10 roided muscles >>>> 10/10 frame with natty muscles


most guys have shit shoulder width tho.

View attachment 677037 View attachment 677041
Same guy

typical nigger frame tbh

rate my frame & muscle

nigger/10

 

[Mayorga]

Incorrect, having a large frame has little to do with having wide hips/waist. Phil Davis's hips are in the average range
Mesomorphs have larger wide frames, you do not need wide hips/waist to have a large/wide frame

a big frame enables you to carry more muscle mass at a given height. Phil Davis is 93kg @ 1.88m, Karelin is 129kg @ 1.91m. BF% is similar. Who has a bigger one?

 

[0Ace0]

a big frame enables you to carry more muscle mass at a given height. Phil Davis is 93kg @ 1.88m, Karelin is 129kg @ 1.91m. BF% is similar. Who has a bigger one?

Phil Davis is 6'1-6'2 and cuts weight to make 205lbs
Karelin is 6'3-6'4
Karelin is not that lean and most likely used steroids and HGH which the Russians were notorious for in Olympic sports, his nickname was literally "The Russian Experiment"

 

[Mayorga]

not that lean

it's just a semantics thing though, imo guys like Karelin have truly big frames, Davis just has top tier shoulder width.

 

[Deleted member 9819]

Being lean>frame>muscles, but all three are correlated

 

[0Ace0]

it's just a semantics thing though, imo guys like Karelin have truly big frames, Davis just has top tier shoulder width.

Shoulder/thorax width and frame size are practically synonymous, even in women, studies have already proven this.

 

[Mayorga]

frame size

what definition of "frame" are we working with though? it's mostly a term in the PSL sphere, not really a scientific one.

 

[0Ace0]

what definition of "frame" are we working with though? it's mostly a term in the PSL sphere, not really a scientific one.

I'm using the scientific one, but for all intents and purposes, they're pretty much the same thing, wide framed shoulders display frame size both in science and in PSL in terms of aesthetic appeal

Form follows function.

 

[Mayorga]

I'm using the scientific one

quote, i have no idea what it is.

in terms of aesthetic appeal

agreed

 

[rydofx]

frame>muscles any day of week

 

[Merlix]

Better to be 180lbs 5'8 20bf or 170lbs 5'8 15bf?

 

[Deleted member 8064]

Better to be 180lbs 5'8 20bf or 170lbs 5'8 15bf?

Imo, 170 5'8 and 15