GHK-cu blocking DHT(Again)(GTFIH)

[Hexmask]

As one of the users on this forum who talks the most about GHK-cu I’ve seen the DHT talk regarding it thrown around. As some of you saw in my previous thread no one really gave me anything except for @chadisbeingmade (high IQ member here) and it was a study I will link at the bottom of this post showing copper significantly inhibits the type 1 iso enzyme which is what is also responsible for conversion of 5ar into all of our important neurosteroids most noteably being allopregnenolone which is neuroprotective, anti-anxiolytic, pro-social, just to name a few. This obviously could be a concern but of course I do think dosage and duration could certainly play a role. I do think sometimes you have to accept trade offs in life so if it means for a few weeks I will feel slightly worse then that would be worth the net positive of producing a bunch of collagen and elastin. I’d like to have an actual productive discussion about this and not just a bunch of jesters in my comments(you know who you are).

The study:

Cations inhibit specifically type I 5 alpha-reductase found in human skin - PubMed

Steroid 5 alpha-reductase catalyzes the reduction of testosterone into the very potent androgen dihydrotestosterone. Previously, we showed that human type I 5 alpha-reductase is expressed mainly in the skin, whereas a type II 5 alpha-reductase is more specifically expressed in the prostate. To...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

High IQ tags:

@edodalic29 @lestoa @Dyorotic @Orc

 

[Hexmask]

Also @Jonas2k7 (High IQ)

 

[vrilmaxxer]

I love GHK-cu, fuck DHT

 

[roider122]

how much it decrease dht? if like %30-50 i will be big ghk cu fan

 

[Hexmask]

how much it decrease dht? if like %30-50 i will be big ghk cu fan

No clue, I’m more so making this post to see if someone high IQ can kinda help interpret what this could mean in relation with GHK.

 

[vrilmaxxer]

The effects of various quantities of Ba, Be, Ca, Cd, Co, Cu, Mg, Mn, Sr, Zn and EDTA on the formation of 5 alpha-reduced metabolites of testosterone (T) substrate and of 3 alpha-/3 beta-reduced metabolites of 5 alpha-dihydrotestosterone substrates by homogenates of 6 human hyperplastic prostate glands were studied in incubations at pH 7.4 with NADPH-generating system. Effects of these cations and EDTA on the VM and KM of the 5 alpha-reductase and 3 alpha-/3 beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenases (-HSD) were also measured. Quantities of 5 alpha-reduced T metabolites were significantly increased by Cd, Cu and Zn supplementations. These increments were shown to result from significant augmentations of the VM but no change in KM of the NADPH-dependent 5 alpha-reductase. Quantities of 3 alpha-reduced DHT metabolites were significantly decreased by Cd and Cu supplementations and resulted from an increase of the KM of the NADPH-dependent 3 alpha-HSD by Cd and both an increase of KM and a decrease of VM by Cu. Quantities of 3 beta-reduced DHT metabolites were significantly decreased by Cd and Cu supplementations. Increase of the KM of the NADPH-dependent 3 beta-HSD by Cd was found significant while Cu both increased the KM and decreased the VM of the enzyme. EDTA-related changes in 5 alpha-reductase activity were shown to result from the EDTA-induced decrease of the pH of the medium. No effect of EDTA was observed on the activities of both 3 alpha/3 beta-HSD.

Testosterone metabolism by homogenates of human prostates with benign hyperplasia: effects of zinc, cadmium and other bivalent cations - PubMed

The effects of various quantities of Ba, Be, Ca, Cd, Co, Cu, Mg, Mn, Sr, Zn and EDTA on the formation of 5 alpha-reduced metabolites of testosterone (T) substrate and of 3 alpha-/3 beta-reduced metabolites of 5 alpha-dihydrotestosterone substrates by homogenates of 6 human hyperplastic prostate...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I might be wrong but I linked another study that was in the related articles section that also displays the effects of different minerals on 5-ar activity. The study previously displayed "that results showed that type I 5 alpha-reductase was strongly inhibited by Cd, Cu, and Zn and moderately inhibited by Ni and Fe" but in the study I saw it says that "Quantities of 5 alpha-reduced T metabolites were significantly increased by Cd, Cu and Zn supplementations." I asked GPT and this is what it had to say:

Yes, copper did increase DHT — but only in the first step.​

Here’s the breakdown:

1. Copper increased the amount of 5α-reduced testosterone metabolites:
   • This means more DHT was produced from testosterone.
   • Why? Because copper increased the Vmax of the enzyme 5α-reductase.
     • That’s the enzyme that converts testosterone → DHT.
     • So copper made that enzyme work faster = more DHT.
2. BUT — copper also decreased the formation of further metabolites of DHT:
   • These are the 3α- and 3β-reduced metabolites, formed from DHT by 3α- and 3β-HSD enzymes.
   • Copper messed with these enzymes by:
     • Increasing Km (weaker binding to DHT).
     • Decreasing Vmax (slower enzyme speed).
   • So while more DHT was made, less of it was broken down into its next forms.

3. In summary:​

   • Copper increased DHT levels by boosting the enzyme that makes it.
   • Copper also slowed down DHT metabolism, which could mean DHT sticks around longer in the tissue.
   This could have important biological effects, especially in tissues like the prostate or skin, where DHT plays a strong role in conditions like BPH or acne.

I could be missing something because academics write like faggots but regardless let me know if I am misinterpreting something or just plain out wrong. Most of the studies presented use vitros or incubators wonder if they have more in depth studies on proper humans, regardless the study from my understanding displayed that quantities of 5 alpha-reduced T metabolites were significantly increased meaning more DHT and the DHT seems to be more potent since HSD is reduced. So copper and zinc increase DHT???

 

[Hexmask]

The effects of various quantities of Ba, Be, Ca, Cd, Co, Cu, Mg, Mn, Sr, Zn and EDTA on the formation of 5 alpha-reduced metabolites of testosterone (T) substrate and of 3 alpha-/3 beta-reduced metabolites of 5 alpha-dihydrotestosterone substrates by homogenates of 6 human hyperplastic prostate glands were studied in incubations at pH 7.4 with NADPH-generating system. Effects of these cations and EDTA on the VM and KM of the 5 alpha-reductase and 3 alpha-/3 beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenases (-HSD) were also measured. Quantities of 5 alpha-reduced T metabolites were significantly increased by Cd, Cu and Zn supplementations. These increments were shown to result from significant augmentations of the VM but no change in KM of the NADPH-dependent 5 alpha-reductase. Quantities of 3 alpha-reduced DHT metabolites were significantly decreased by Cd and Cu supplementations and resulted from an increase of the KM of the NADPH-dependent 3 alpha-HSD by Cd and both an increase of KM and a decrease of VM by Cu. Quantities of 3 beta-reduced DHT metabolites were significantly decreased by Cd and Cu supplementations. Increase of the KM of the NADPH-dependent 3 beta-HSD by Cd was found significant while Cu both increased the KM and decreased the VM of the enzyme. EDTA-related changes in 5 alpha-reductase activity were shown to result from the EDTA-induced decrease of the pH of the medium. No effect of EDTA was observed on the activities of both 3 alpha/3 beta-HSD.

Testosterone metabolism by homogenates of human prostates with benign hyperplasia: effects of zinc, cadmium and other bivalent cations - PubMed

The effects of various quantities of Ba, Be, Ca, Cd, Co, Cu, Mg, Mn, Sr, Zn and EDTA on the formation of 5 alpha-reduced metabolites of testosterone (T) substrate and of 3 alpha-/3 beta-reduced metabolites of 5 alpha-dihydrotestosterone substrates by homogenates of 6 human hyperplastic prostate...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I might be wrong but I linked another study that was in the related articles section that also displays the effects of different minerals on 5-ar activity. The study previously displayed "that results showed that type I 5 alpha-reductase was strongly inhibited by Cd, Cu, and Zn and moderately inhibited by Ni and Fe" but in the study I saw it says that "Quantities of 5 alpha-reduced T metabolites were significantly increased by Cd, Cu and Zn supplementations." I asked GPT and this is what it had to say:

Yes, copper did increase DHT — but only in the first step.​

Here’s the breakdown:

1. Copper increased the amount of 5α-reduced testosterone metabolites:
   • This means more DHT was produced from testosterone.
   • Why? Because copper increased the Vmax of the enzyme 5α-reductase.
     • That’s the enzyme that converts testosterone → DHT.
     • So copper made that enzyme work faster = more DHT.
2. BUT — copper also decreased the formation of further metabolites of DHT:
   • These are the 3α- and 3β-reduced metabolites, formed from DHT by 3α- and 3β-HSD enzymes.
   • Copper messed with these enzymes by:
     • Increasing Km (weaker binding to DHT).
     • Decreasing Vmax (slower enzyme speed).
   • So while more DHT was made, less of it was broken down into its next forms.

3. In summary:​

   • Copper increased DHT levels by boosting the enzyme that makes it.
   • Copper also slowed down DHT metabolism, which could mean DHT sticks around longer in the tissue.
   This could have important biological effects, especially in tissues like the prostate or skin, where DHT plays a strong role in conditions like BPH or acne.

I could be missing something because academics write like faggots but regardless let me know if I am misinterpreting something or just plain out wrong. Most of the studies presented use vitros or incubators wonder if they have more in depth studies on proper humans, regardless the study from my understanding displayed that quantities of 5 alpha-reduced T metabolites were significantly increased meaning more DHT and the DHT seems to be more potent since HSD is reduced. So copper and zinc increase DHT???

Mirin. I talked to a very knowledgeable guy in pharmacology in the fitness scene and showed him the study I referenced and he said it is more so altering the way the type 1 iso enzyme is expressed. He claimed it’s not just linerally inhibiting it. I don’t know it’s very confusing because as you said there’s no context to any of it. Even going on Reddit no one has answer but yet some articles claim it does reduce DHT. I’m not saying DHT is needed but if biologically your someone who’s body and brain function better with DHT then it could definitely play a factor and be important to know this.

 

[vrilmaxxer]

Mirin. I talked to a very knowledgeable guy in pharmacology in the fitness scene and showed him the study I referenced and he said it is more so altering the way the type 1 iso enzyme is expressed. He claimed it’s not just linerally inhibiting it. I don’t know it’s very confusing because as you said there’s no context to any of it. Even going on Reddit no one has answer but yet some articles claim it does reduce DHT. I’m not saying DHT is needed but if biologically your someone who’s body and brain function better with DHT then it could definitely play a factor and be important to know this.

Yeah its pretty interesting since I looked at some other studies but none of them are in depth and don't discuss the dosages + mechanisms, they just give vague conclusions, its pretty conflicting too since the study I linked said that Cadmium (Cd), Copper (Cu), and Zinc (Zn) increase the activity of 5a-reductase and inhibit 3a-HSD and 3B-HSD, so not only is more DHT being made, it's also sticking around longer, because it's not being inactivated as it normally would. - Blow this thread up and ask more people I find this pretty intriguing

 

[slaters]

As one of the users on this forum who talks the most about GHK-cu I’ve seen the DHT talk regarding it thrown around. As some of you saw in my previous thread no one really gave me anything except for @chadisbeingmade (high IQ member here) and it was a study I will link at the bottom of this post showing copper significantly inhibits the type 1 iso enzyme which is what is also responsible for conversion of 5ar into all of our important neurosteroids most noteably being allopregnenolone which is neuroprotective, anti-anxiolytic, pro-social, just to name a few. This obviously could be a concern but of course I do think dosage and duration could certainly play a role. I do think sometimes you have to accept trade offs in life so if it means for a few weeks I will feel slightly worse then that would be worth the net positive of producing a bunch of collagen and elastin. I’d like to have an actual productive discussion about this and not just a bunch of jesters in my comments(you know who you are).

The study:

Cations inhibit specifically type I 5 alpha-reductase found in human skin - PubMed

Steroid 5 alpha-reductase catalyzes the reduction of testosterone into the very potent androgen dihydrotestosterone. Previously, we showed that human type I 5 alpha-reductase is expressed mainly in the skin, whereas a type II 5 alpha-reductase is more specifically expressed in the prostate. To...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

High IQ tags:

@edodalic29 @lestoa @Dyorotic @Orc

Reddit anecdote

 

[vrilmaxxer]

As one of the users on this forum who talks the most about GHK-cu I’ve seen the DHT talk regarding it thrown around. As some of you saw in my previous thread no one really gave me anything except for @chadisbeingmade (high IQ member here) and it was a study I will link at the bottom of this post showing copper significantly inhibits the type 1 iso enzyme which is what is also responsible for conversion of 5ar into all of our important neurosteroids most noteably being allopregnenolone which is neuroprotective, anti-anxiolytic, pro-social, just to name a few. This obviously could be a concern but of course I do think dosage and duration could certainly play a role. I do think sometimes you have to accept trade offs in life so if it means for a few weeks I will feel slightly worse then that would be worth the net positive of producing a bunch of collagen and elastin. I’d like to have an actual productive discussion about this and not just a bunch of jesters in my comments(you know who you are).

The study:

Cations inhibit specifically type I 5 alpha-reductase found in human skin - PubMed

Steroid 5 alpha-reductase catalyzes the reduction of testosterone into the very potent androgen dihydrotestosterone. Previously, we showed that human type I 5 alpha-reductase is expressed mainly in the skin, whereas a type II 5 alpha-reductase is more specifically expressed in the prostate. To...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

High IQ tags:

@edodalic29 @lestoa @Dyorotic @Orc

Realistically the amount of copper from 5mg of GHK is less then a 1mg of copper and should be fine and within the RDA of copper. Additionally up to 10mg of copper can be taken safely without issues related to toxicity. I doubt GHK effects DHT levels at all and most of the anecdotes are just people thinking it effects DHT since their hair got better from excess collagen and elastin.

 

[Hexmask]

Realistically the amount of copper from 5mg of GHK is less then a 1mg of copper and should be fine and within the RDA of copper. Additionally up to 10mg of copper can be taken safely without issues related to toxicity. I doubt GHK effects DHT levels at all and most of the anecdotes are just people thinking it effects DHT since their hair got better from excess collagen and elastin.

I see the anecdotes about hair loss and regrowth and it got me thinking about if it was that simple that there was a solution where DHT didn’t need to be blocked and you could have fairly easy regrowth, wouldn’t GHK be used even more then fin? In theory zero downsides and mogger skin aswell as the main goal of hair regrowth? Idk

 

[vrilmaxxer]

I see the anecdotes about hair loss and regrowth and it got me thinking about if it was that simple that there was a solution where DHT didn’t need to be blocked and you could have fairly easy regrowth, wouldn’t GHK be used even more then fin? In theory zero downsides and mogger skin aswell as the main goal of hair regrowth? Idk

Yeah if it blocks DHT good, if it does not also good

It shows that regardless it is a mogger peptide