Good or retarded roid stack?

[Doom0]

Currently 15.5 years old 16% bodyfat 67.2kg 182 cm, using reta to get lean, want to hop on test, tell me if this is retarded or not, been lifting for a decent while on and off and got the basics of dieting and training down.

MAIN GOAL: Build muscle and get a nice physique
Secondary goal: Dimorphic features such as a leaner face, deeper voice, broader features (body), Longer height duration (cuz of AI), etc

Get lean first (10-13% Bodyfat)

THEN 500 test for 12-20 weeks Aromasin 2-3 weeks after injecting test if needed (start at 5mg EOD and taper upwards if sides) Will first inject 2x a week
then slowly up the injection dose every week till im injecting daily

5mg minoxidil and ru58411 for hair loss (no family history)

Benzoyl peroxide+topical Tretinoin for my acne and to prevent any on cycle (will eventually switch to taz if i can tolerate and might add Accutane if it gets bad)

Creatine for extra gains

Will bulk till cycle ends and lift a ton.

AFTER BLAST Will drop down to a trt dosage (150-250 test) Will be in caloric deficit using 0.5 mg Retatrutide (dose up if hunger)20mg anavar dosed daily for 12-15 weeks during the cut

PCT: Will pct after my puberty IF I want to have children using HcG and something like clomid to get my testosterone back up and functioning

Now i have some questions, Do i have to start injecting daily and is it a good idea or should i just slowly ramp up? (start with 2x a week and up injection freq every week), im also pretty afraid of this having a bad effect on my HPA axis and fertility wise since i do want children later on and am not sure if i want to stay on test for life. Also pretty afraid of side effects but i feel like i should be fine since its just 500 test and i got some things against them. I also have some gyno and do want to take something like raloxifine for it but i dont know how that works exactly.

and with is it retarded im talking about the stack itself not about the roid usage, I couldnt care less if you think a 15.5 year old shouldnt get on gear i need to fix this death tier frame ASAP and will do anything to reach that goal.

Budget is very tight right now im just getting the basics such as the roids themselves, Hair support, slight acne support, etc, otherwise i would've added more i also need to jobmaxx.

 

[LooksOrDeath]

I don’t think you can say there’s just 1 component to hair loss

We can observe hair loss occurring when people use non DHT based steroids for example

DHT is the main cause of hair loss by far
nothing comes close to it in men

 

[Doom0]

u wont make good gains on it like you envision you will be dissapointed

im not envisioning to look like i roided after just ONE cycle im just planning to put on some decent amount of muscle and look like i spent a considerable time in the gym, just want to be happy with my physique

 

[Herzog]

im not envisioning to look like i roided after just ONE cycle im just planning to put on some decent amount of muscle and look like i spent a considerable time in the gym, just want to be happy with my physique

can you tell me stats of your body

 

[Doom0]

can you tell me stats of your body

16% bodyfat 67.2kg 182 cm, widish hips but carrying most of my fat in my hips so it looks alot worse, everything above my abs is alot more detailed in terms of leanness (looks alot leaner), i have pretty low muscle mass i look kinda skinny fat looking so im actively getting leaner then planning to roid, also have very slight gyno but it doesnt feel as such when i pinch so it might just be excess fat il choose to treat it when im actually lean if its still noticeable,

 

[Herzog]

16% bodyfat 67.2kg 182 cm, widish hips but carrying most of my fat in my hips so it looks alot worse, everything above my abs is alot more detailed in terms of leanness (looks alot leaner), i have pretty low muscle mass i look kinda skinny fat looking so im actively getting leaner then planning to roid, also have very slight gyno but it doesnt feel as such when i pinch so it might just be excess fat il choose to treat it when im actually lean if its still noticeable,

maybe you should hop on e and transition instead you seem perfect for it bro

jk pm me and ill help u

 

[Doom0]

maybe you should hop on e and transition instead you seem perfect for it bro

wow

 

[Herzog]

wow

i Was joking bro ill help u

 

[BobDaDa]

Then keep your mouth shut

ight natty

 

[Faustum]

@Etson

"Get lean first (10-13% Bodyfat)"
You understand Testosterone will aid in this right? It will improve nutrient portioning and focus on muscles and retaining them while you are cutting. You should be on Test REGARDLESS.

Getting lean is important but do not DELAY TEST because of it.

"THEN 500 test for 12-20 weeks Aromasin 2-3 weeks after injecting test if needed"
500mg a week for your first cycle is kinda high. Why not do 300-350, get bloods, see how RBC is, see how Estrogen is, and THEN up the dosage from there? What's your starting Testosterone levels?

On 300mg of Test a week, I had 1,900ng of T and 440 Estrogen, I was a super aromatizer and we don't yet know if you are one too.

I'd go more than 20 weeks. IF you can monitor your bloods. I actually began to notice mental and strength within 2-3 weeks on 300mg, but then ONLY after 10 weeks I JUST began to notice mass size gains. Do 8-12 months, let your body and mind fully saturate in the new Anabolic environment.

You'll need supplements to support you because of Oxidative Stress. SEMAX is great for neuroprotective and oxidative stress on the brain, NAC 1200mg (or if you can afford it, just inject Glutathione which is what NAC boosts the production of), Coenzyme Q10 200mg, and other Oxidative Stress supplements you can find online.

"Will first inject 2x a week"
Please do not do this. I did this, and I had the WORST bloat you've ever seen, my feet were huge and the water retention was horrible. Do 4x a WEEK MINIMUM it also makes your injection volume much less.

Now why 4x a week minimum?

It's linear, the MORE you inject the MORE STABLE HORMONE levels you'll have. Daily is ideal. I do 5x a week, Test C, SubQ.

"5mg minoxidil and ru58411 for hair loss (no family history)"
Don't know much about RU but I'm on 2.5mg of Minoxidil. I also do Cialis 5mg daily for life, it's Cardioprotective, gives you good erections, and lowers BP. Minox also lowers BP, should help while being on Test.

"Benzoyl peroxide+topical Tretinoin for my acne and to prevent any on cycle (will eventually switch to taz if i can tolerate and might add Accutane if it gets bad)"
I was on Benzo, it's mid. I skipped the TrentiCOPEin, I went straight to Accutane. Accutane PERMANAETLY changes your pores, and after 12 months they will be significantly and permanently shrunk for most people. And then you just need to do a small Accutane dosage twice a week called a "hollywood dose" and you'll basically never have acne again.

 

[Chadlite bhai]

Mid stack

 

[Endocrinology]

Why trt? You are 15, either blast or pct

 

[Doom0]

"Get lean first (10-13% Bodyfat)"
You understand Testosterone will aid in this right? It will improve nutrient portioning and focus on muscles and retaining them while you are cutting. You should be on Test REGARDLESS.

Getting lean is important but do not DELAY TEST because of it.

"THEN 500 test for 12-20 weeks Aromasin 2-3 weeks after injecting test if needed"
500mg a week for your first cycle is kinda high. Why not do 300-350, get bloods, see how RBC is, see how Estrogen is, and THEN up the dosage from there? What's your starting Testosterone levels?

On 300mg of Test a week, I had 1,900ng of T and 440 Estrogen, I was a super aromatizer and we don't yet know if you are one too.
View attachment 4851002
View attachment 4851007

I'd go more than 20 weeks. IF you can monitor your bloods. I actually began to notice mental and strength within 2-3 weeks on 300mg, but then ONLY after 10 weeks I JUST began to notice mass size gains. Do 8-12 months, let your body and mind fully saturate in the new Anabolic environment.

You'll need supplements to support you because of Oxidative Stress. SEMAX is great for neuroprotective and oxidative stress on the brain, NAC 1200mg (or if you can afford it, just inject Glutathione which is what NAC boosts the production of), Coenzyme Q10 200mg, and other Oxidative Stress supplements you can find online.

"Will first inject 2x a week"
Please do not do this. I did this, and I had the WORST bloat you've ever seen, my feet were huge and the water retention was horrible. Do 4x a WEEK MINIMUM it also makes your injection volume much less.

Now why 4x a week minimum?
View attachment 4851038

It's linear, the MORE you inject the MORE STABLE HORMONE levels you'll have. Daily is ideal. I do 5x a week, Test C, SubQ.

"5mg minoxidil and ru58411 for hair loss (no family history)"
Don't know much about RU but I'm on 2.5mg of Minoxidil. I also do Cialis 5mg daily for life, it's Cardioprotective, gives you good erections, and lowers BP. Minox also lowers BP, should help while being on Test.

"Benzoyl peroxide+topical Tretinoin for my acne and to prevent any on cycle (will eventually switch to taz if i can tolerate and might add Accutane if it gets bad)"
I was on Benzo, it's mid. I skipped the TrentiCOPEin, I went straight to Accutane. Accutane PERMANAETLY changes your pores, and after 12 months they will be significantly and permanently shrunk for most people. And then you just need to do a small Accutane dosage twice a week called a "hollywood dose" and you'll basically never have acne again.

not gonna do bloods ik its a bad option but i have no access yet cuz im 15, im doing 500 since i heard that shutting myself down for 250 isnt worth it, i am afraid im gonna be a high aromatiser tho considering i have signs of high e2 like slight gyno and wider hips but idk if thats actually how that works, i know that accutane is the best option but i currently am making progress on tretinoin+doxycycline so i assume it'l be fine if i add benzoyl peroxide also if it do gets worse my doctor said he'l instantly prescribe me accutane, also not sure if im gonna use the ru i dont have any hair loss in my family i feel like minox+derma stamp and a hairloss shampoo should do me right,

 

[Doom0]

"Get lean first (10-13% Bodyfat)"
You understand Testosterone will aid in this right? It will improve nutrient portioning and focus on muscles and retaining them while you are cutting. You should be on Test REGARDLESS.

Getting lean is important but do not DELAY TEST because of it.

"THEN 500 test for 12-20 weeks Aromasin 2-3 weeks after injecting test if needed"
500mg a week for your first cycle is kinda high. Why not do 300-350, get bloods, see how RBC is, see how Estrogen is, and THEN up the dosage from there? What's your starting Testosterone levels?

On 300mg of Test a week, I had 1,900ng of T and 440 Estrogen, I was a super aromatizer and we don't yet know if you are one too.
View attachment 4851002
View attachment 4851007

I'd go more than 20 weeks. IF you can monitor your bloods. I actually began to notice mental and strength within 2-3 weeks on 300mg, but then ONLY after 10 weeks I JUST began to notice mass size gains. Do 8-12 months, let your body and mind fully saturate in the new Anabolic environment.

You'll need supplements to support you because of Oxidative Stress. SEMAX is great for neuroprotective and oxidative stress on the brain, NAC 1200mg (or if you can afford it, just inject Glutathione which is what NAC boosts the production of), Coenzyme Q10 200mg, and other Oxidative Stress supplements you can find online.

"Will first inject 2x a week"
Please do not do this. I did this, and I had the WORST bloat you've ever seen, my feet were huge and the water retention was horrible. Do 4x a WEEK MINIMUM it also makes your injection volume much less.

Now why 4x a week minimum?
View attachment 4851038

It's linear, the MORE you inject the MORE STABLE HORMONE levels you'll have. Daily is ideal. I do 5x a week, Test C, SubQ.

"5mg minoxidil and ru58411 for hair loss (no family history)"
Don't know much about RU but I'm on 2.5mg of Minoxidil. I also do Cialis 5mg daily for life, it's Cardioprotective, gives you good erections, and lowers BP. Minox also lowers BP, should help while being on Test.

"Benzoyl peroxide+topical Tretinoin for my acne and to prevent any on cycle (will eventually switch to taz if i can tolerate and might add Accutane if it gets bad)"
I was on Benzo, it's mid. I skipped the TrentiCOPEin, I went straight to Accutane. Accutane PERMANAETLY changes your pores, and after 12 months they will be significantly and permanently shrunk for most people. And then you just need to do a small Accutane dosage twice a week called a "hollywood dose" and you'll basically never have acne again.

im hearing alot of things about 250 vs 500 test, originally i wanted to start at 250 but i heard that it wasnt worth it since im young and prolly already have very high test and just shutting myself down for 250 is ''dumb'' although i also hear alot of bad things about starting on 500 so i really just need some advice

 

[Faustum]

not gonna do bloods ik its a bad option but i have no access yet cuz im 15, im doing 500 since i heard that shutting myself down for 250 isnt worth it, i am afraid im gonna be a high aromatiser tho considering i have signs of high e2 like slight gyno and wider hips but idk if thats actually how that works, i know that accutane is the best option but i currently am making progress on tretinoin+doxycycline so i assume it'l be fine if i add benzoyl peroxide also if it do gets worse my doctor said he'l instantly prescribe me accutane, also not sure if im gonna use the ru i dont have any hair loss in my family i feel like minox+derma stamp and a hairloss shampoo should do me right,

You are likely a high aromatizer if you have some gyno and wide hips.

Fat storing at the hips is what women have and is a sign of higher Estrogen.

You will CLOSE your growthplates early if you do not get your E2 in check.

Tell your family/doctor you are feeling nipple sensitivity and want to get your Estrogen checked. You should be on Tamoxifen to reverse early gyno before it develops into actual tissue which will require surgery.

 

[Faustum]

im hearing alot of things about 250 vs 500 test, originally i wanted to start at 250 but i heard that it wasnt worth it since im young and prolly already have very high test and just shutting myself down for 250 is ''dumb'' although i also hear alot of bad things about starting on 500 so i really just need some advice

Yes that's fair, but starting at 350 is more reasonable.

However, if you can't get a blood test then yes 500 would make more sense in so far as you are committed to taking it longer term.

Also, you need to be focusing on HGH + AI and lowering Estrogen as much as possible, height mogs almost everything.

 

[Doom0]

Yes that's fair, but starting at 350 is more reasonable.

However, if you can't get a blood test then yes 500 would make more sense in so far as you are committed to taking it longer term.

Also, you need to be focusing on HGH + AI and lowering Estrogen as much as possible, height mogs almost everything.

im 6'1 in shoes and pretty happy with my height cant buy hgh too, i do have a pretty mid frame which means im missing out on an easy halo and i also dont like my build.

 

[Doom0]

You are likely a high aromatizer if you have some gyno and wide hips.

Fat storing at the hips is what women have and is a sign of higher Estrogen.

You will CLOSE your growthplates early if you do not get your E2 in check.

Tell your family/doctor you are feeling nipple sensitivity and want to get your Estrogen checked. You should be on Tamoxifen to reverse early gyno before it develops into actual tissue which will require surgery.

when should i get my estrogen checked while im running the cycle or before it? also thanks for telling me to use tamoxifen

 

[Doom0]

Yes that's fair, but starting at 350 is more reasonable.

However, if you can't get a blood test then yes 500 would make more sense in so far as you are committed to taking it longer term.

Also, you need to be focusing on HGH + AI and lowering Estrogen as much as possible, height mogs almost everything.

i feel like most of those problem were caused because of me being severly overweight and not having a good hormone supporting lifestyle as a child

 

[Doom0]

You are likely a high aromatizer if you have some gyno and wide hips.

Fat storing at the hips is what women have and is a sign of higher Estrogen.

You will CLOSE your growthplates early if you do not get your E2 in check.

Tell your family/doctor you are feeling nipple sensitivity and want to get your Estrogen checked. You should be on Tamoxifen to reverse early gyno before it develops into actual tissue which will require surgery.

i thought that feeling for sides is enough to correctly dose an AI is bloodwork really needed if i watch out for water retention and gyno forming

 

[TrueGuerilla]

 

[TrueGuerilla]

Sex

 

[Faustum]

when should i get my estrogen checked while im running the cycle or before it? also thanks for telling me to use tamoxifen

Well in an ideal world you get bloods BEFORE cycle to see your natural base, and then 4-6 weeks after starting to see where you are at.

Given that you are younger, I'd recommend specifically in your case to take an AI out the gate.

 

[Faustum]

i feel like most of those problem were caused because of me being severly overweight and not having a good hormone supporting lifestyle as a child

Higher body fat = Higher Estrogen

 

[Faustum]

i thought that feeling for sides is enough to correctly dose an AI is bloodwork really needed if i watch out for water retention and gyno forming

AI's won't target Gyno.

The SERM I recommended you specifically tackles Estrogen in your breast.

 

[Doom0]

Higher body fat = Higher Estrogen

does that still mean that i could be a high aromatiser if im starting lean? Also idk if i can get a blood test at 15 should i just ask doctor about gyno worries or what can i larp

 

[Doom0]

AI's won't target Gyno.

The SERM I recommended you specifically tackles Estrogen in your breast.

wont the ai prevent future gyno from forming?

 

[Faustum]

wont the ai prevent future gyno from forming?

If Gyno is already developing in the breast, no. AI's reduce the stimulus for new glandular tissue to form.

Tamoxifen or raloxifene actually work better because it DIRECTLY targets estrogen effects on the BREAST tissue.

You can take an AI, and do a cycle of Tamoxifen to stop/regress any gyno you developed (if tissue hasn't fully formed)

 

[Faustum]

does that still mean that i could be a high aromatiser if im starting lean? Also idk if i can get a blood test at 15 should i just ask doctor about gyno worries or what can i larp

You can LARP that you feel sensitivity on your nipples and are concerned about high Estrogen because of that, and your weight.

You can ask an AI to help you LARP a better reason.

We do not yet know if you are a genetic high aromatizer (I am) but you having MORE body fat means you are likely to have elevated Estrogen.

 

[Doom0]

If Gyno is already developing in the breast, no. AI's reduce the stimulus for new glandular tissue to form.

Tamoxifen or raloxifene actually work better because it DIRECTLY targets estrogen effects on the BREAST tissue.

You can take an AI, and do a cycle of Tamoxifen to stop/regress any gyno you developed (if tissue hasn't fully formed)

its already developed i think i had it a pretty long time

 

[Faustum]

its already developed i think i had it a pretty long time

Then 100% have a doctor look at it, if the tissue is formed fully it may only be surgical now.

Zeta just had gyno surgery.

 

[Doom0]

Then 100% have a doctor look at it, if the tissue is formed fully it may only be surgical now.

Zeta just had gyno surgery.

does this have any influence on my roid usage? how should my AI dosing be or does that not matter as long as im not feeling high e2 signs, i think il instantly start with an ai tho. Also do i still take tamox?

 

[Faustum]

does this have any influence on my roid usage? how should my AI dosing be or does that not matter as long as im not feeling high e2 signs, i think il instantly start with an ai tho. Also do i still take tamox?

You will feel BOTH TOO HIGH and TOO LOW

Too low you'll feel mentally drained, low libido, painful joints, etc.

Too High (which I experience the same Estrogen level of 4 women) you will be incredibly moody and have insane water retention/bloat.

Ideally you should be getting a blood test.