Here Are The Factors Are That Make Up Beauty

[Deleted member 26678]

Proportions


when it comes to aesthetics there are established canons and ratios of the face and body that have been proven through science to be ideal

these ideal proportions appear to be hereditary because infants have been shown to express preference for attractive faces as opposed to unattractive faces

tldr: facial harmony

facial harmony is just how many angles and ratios that a face is within the ideal of

on this site it seems that "harmony" is used as a buzzword for when someone has an opinion regarding a face that they cannot explain such as here:

harmony, it can’t be bought you are just born with it or your not

another common trope here is that one's facial harmony is not able to be altered (facial harmony and proportions are interchangeable, think of them as one and the same) but this is not true

say your chin height is deficient, causing your chin to philtrum ratio to be off

if you then get a chin implant to add chin height, thus making your chin to philtrum ratio fall within the ideal, your facial harmony has just improved



Sexual Dimorphism

in most animals, sexes of the same species will eventually begin to show morphological characteristics



in humans this begins during puberty

in males, testosterone will stimulate growth in facial bones and facial hair will begin to grow. growth of these regions in females is inhibited by oestrogen

sexually dimorphic traits signal sexual maturity and reproductive potential

dimorphic male traits include broad shoulders, tall height, big broad jaw, big dick, deep set eyes, tall chin, darker coloring, body hair, etc

dimorphic female traits include short height, big tits, broader hips, lighter coloring, longer hair, narrower jaw, wider set eyes, etc





it seems like critics of psl are struggling to grasp this concept recently




breaking news: it is not ideal for women to have completely hooded hunter eyes. no one who was serious was saying that

some uee is ideal on women

psl isn't saying what is ideal on men is ideal on women



Neoteny

neoteny is defined as the retention of juvenile features in the adult

a key distinction between sexual dimorphism and neoteny is that neoteny is favored in both sexes while dimorphic traits are only favored in one

the key is neoteny in the face not the body

the retention of childlike facial features like larger eyes, smaller noses, fuller lips, and rounder faces correlate with attractiveness, particularly for women

it is also important for men to retain youthful features such as a dense, full head of hair and smooth elastic skin



Symmetry

it is theorized that asymmetry is an indicator of a genetic flaw therefore humans are more drawn to symmetrical faces

mild asymmetry is normal, and has even been found to be preferable to a completely symmetrical face





Averageness

the concept of facial averageness was first discovered when a man named francis galton tried to find the typical 'criminal face'. he did this by creating composite faces where he overlayed multiple pictures of criminals onto a photographic plate. his original hypothesis was wrong, but galton found that the composite faces became more attractive than any of the individual faces. more research was done to prove that composite faces were more attractive that individual pictures, but these averaged faces were made even more attractive by exaggerating the shape differences from the mean. therefore an averaged face is attractive but may not be optimal.

i've noticed that this is usually where the discussion about averageness ceases so to explain it simply, the reason averageness is attractive is because an averaged composite is more likely to have more ideal ratios and angles than individual faces

Spoiler: here is a good analogy from thecel

Analogy of 5 dice.

1st dice is eye spacing. 2nd dice is vertical eye height. 3rd dice is FWHR. 4th dice is midface length. 5th dice is chin height.

An averagemaxed face (not average-rated face; I mean a face that has each feature average like facial composites) has 3s across the board.

A Chad face has a specific pattern of 4,2,4,3,4.

Imagine rolling the 5 dice at random.

You’re more likely to get a below-average face than a Chad face because Chad face requires specific attributrs (e.g. cheekbone prominence) to deviate specific amounts off the averages and other specific attributes to be average (like midface ratio). A face that has all average traits has the average-is-ideal attributed covered (yay) and has the exceptional-is-ideal attributes okay (not too shabby).

With an averagemaxed face of five 3s, you look quite good. Not the best, but better than a random roll.

Cultural Factors


beauty is mostly cross cultural but there is evidence that supports environmental and cultural influence on perceptions of beauty

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00224545.1964.9922213

in this study researchers found that both white and black american males preferred black female faces with caucasian features, whereas
black african men showed a preference for black female faces
with negroid features

 

[Deleted member 26859]

darker coloring

theres many studies proving men are born with lighter hair, lighter eyes, and lighter skin than women.

and estrogen darkens these things while testosterone does not.

therefore darker is actually more feminine

hence why ethnic men are low t, short, low smv

and white men(who have lighter hair, eyes, and skin) are the tallest and most masculine men

 

[Deleted member 26678]

theres many studies proving men are born with lighter hair, lighter eyes, and lighter skin than women.

and estrogen darkens these things while testosterone does not.

therefore darker is actually more feminine

source?

 

[Deleted member 26859]

source?

darker more masculine is a myth. why would u want to look more filipino, than more white? as a male?




"Quantitative measures of skin, hair, and eye pigmentation were obtained for 470 individuals recruited in Ireland, Poland, Italy, and Portugal and included in a two-stage genetic association study of pigmentary phenotypes. Males (M) have consistently lighter pigmentation (lower scored) than females (F) in all four countries." https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0048294

1. "The study included 384 genetic variants and six physical characteristics. The results show that, with the same genetic variability, men tend to have lighter skin pigmentation and a worse response to the effects of ultraviolet rays," Martínez-Cadenas tells us. https://ia800200.us.archive.org/33/items/cu31924029901208/cu31924029901208.pdf "in England there is the opposite tendency of the women to have darker hair and eyes than the men, and the women tend to darken in complexion at the time of puberty. These rules seem to apply throughout Northwestern Europe." https://ia601405.us.archive.org/2/i...2m/The Journal of Mental Science 48.1902m.pdf
   
   
   
   
   
2. [09:37]
   "Certain differences, how- ever, are clearly brought out; the conclusion of those who have argued that women are darker than men is here definitely confirmed" FEMALE HORMONES MAKE YOU DARKER: BPcXLaJ.jpg "Composite faces of the (a) 10 women with highest and (b) 10 with lowest levels of late follicular oestrogen metabolite (oestrone-3-glucuronide, E1G)." https://faseb.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1096/fj.06-6649rev
   
   
   
   
   
3. 
   
4. 
   
5. 
   
6. [09:37]
   "During pregnancy (especially in the third trimester), elevated levels of estrogen, progesterone, and MSH have often been found in association with melasma" https://elifesciences.org/articles/15104
   
   

 

[Deleted member 26678]

darker more masculine is a myth. why would u want to look more filipino, than more white? as a male?

obviously you want to always look white lmfao. you are right that there are reports of men being lighter than women, but there is also data that supports men having darker coloring that women

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7515938/#:~:text=Universally%2C%20female%20skin%20color%20is,culturally%20represented%20to%20ground%20gender.

"Universally, female skin color is lighter than male skin color, irrespective of geographical location. This difference is a distinctive and universal adaptive pattern that emerges after puberty. We address whether this sexual dimorphism is cognitively and culturally represented to ground gender"

"The results in both experiments revealed that the children from the two cultural communities choose a lighter colored object for the female target and a darker version of the same object for the male target. This pattern held across cultures irrespective of the age of participants"

The evolution of human skin coloration - PubMed

Skin color is one of the most conspicuous ways in which humans vary and has been widely used to define human races. Here we present new evidence indicating that variations in skin color are adaptive, and are related to the regulation of ultraviolet (UV) radiation penetration in the integument...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

"In all populations for which skin reflectance data were available for males and females, females were found to be lighter skinned than males"

"The lighter color of female skin may be required to permit synthesis of the relatively higher amounts of vitamin D(3)necessary during pregnancy and lactation"

 

[ripcordgod1]

Proportions


when it comes to aesthetics there are established canons and ratios of the face and body that have been proven through science to be ideal

these ideal proportions appear to be hereditary because infants have been shown to express preference for attractive faces as opposed to unattractive faces

tldr: facial harmony

facial harmony is just how many angles and ratios that a face is within the ideal of

on this site it seems that "harmony" is used as a buzzword for when someone has an opinion regarding a face that they cannot explain such as here:



another common trope here is that one's facial harmony is not able to be altered (facial harmony and proportions are interchangeable, think of them as one and the same) but this is not true

say your chin height is deficient, causing your chin to philtrum ratio to be off

if you then get a chin implant to add chin height, thus making your chin to philtrum ratio fall within the ideal, your facial harmony has just improved



Sexual Dimorphism

in most animals, sexes of the same species will eventually begin to show morphological characteristics

View attachment 2113684View attachment 2113685View attachment 2113686

in humans this begins during puberty

in males, testosterone will stimulate growth in facial bones and facial hair will begin to grow. growth of these regions in females is inhibited by oestrogen

sexually dimorphic traits signal sexual maturity and reproductive potential

dimorphic male traits include broad shoulders, tall height, big broad jaw, big dick, deep set eyes, tall chin, darker coloring, body hair, etc

dimorphic female traits include short height, big tits, broader hips, lighter coloring, longer hair, narrower jaw, wider set eyes, etc


View attachment 2113702


it seems like critics of psl are struggling to grasp this concept recently

View attachment 2113706


breaking news: it is not ideal for women to have completely hooded hunter eyes. no one who was serious was saying that

some uee is ideal on women

psl isn't saying what is ideal on men is ideal on women



Neoteny

neoteny is defined as the retention of juvenile features in the adult

a key distinction between sexual dimorphism and neoteny is that neoteny is favored in both sexes while dimorphic traits are only favored in one

the key is neoteny in the face not the body

the retention of childlike facial features like larger eyes, smaller noses, fuller lips, and rounder faces correlate with attractiveness, particularly for women

it is also important for men to retain youthful features such as a dense, full head of hair and smooth elastic skin



Symmetry

it is theorized that asymmetry is an indicator of a genetic flaw therefore humans are more drawn to symmetrical faces

mild asymmetry is normal, and has even been found to be preferable to a completely symmetrical face

View attachment 2116174View attachment 2116176



Averageness

the concept of facial averageness was first discovered when a man named francis galton tried to find the typical 'criminal face'. he did this by creating composite faces where he overlayed multiple pictures of criminals onto a photographic plate. his original hypothesis was wrong, but galton found that the composite faces became more attractive than any of the individual faces. more research was done to prove that composite faces were more attractive that individual pictures, but these averaged faces were made even more attractive by exaggerating the shape differences from the mean. therefore an averaged face is attractive but may not be optimal.

i've noticed that this is usually where the discussion about averageness ceases so to explain it simply, the reason averageness is attractive is because an averaged composite is more likely to have more ideal ratios and angles than individual faces



View attachment 2116847




Cultural Factors


beauty is mostly cross cultural but there is evidence that supports environmental and cultural influence on perceptions of beauty

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00224545.1964.9922213

in this study researchers found that both white and black american males preferred black female faces with caucasian features, whereas
black african men showed a preference for black female faces
with negroid features

opry is not the ideal masc hes downgrown with 0 ramus

 

[ripcordgod1]

darker more masculine is a myth. why would u want to look more filipino, than more white? as a male?




"Quantitative measures of skin, hair, and eye pigmentation were obtained for 470 individuals recruited in Ireland, Poland, Italy, and Portugal and included in a two-stage genetic association study of pigmentary phenotypes. Males (M) have consistently lighter pigmentation (lower scored) than females (F) in all four countries." https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0048294

1. "The study included 384 genetic variants and six physical characteristics. The results show that, with the same genetic variability, men tend to have lighter skin pigmentation and a worse response to the effects of ultraviolet rays," Martínez-Cadenas tells us. https://ia800200.us.archive.org/33/items/cu31924029901208/cu31924029901208.pdf "in England there is the opposite tendency of the women to have darker hair and eyes than the men, and the women tend to darken in complexion at the time of puberty. These rules seem to apply throughout Northwestern Europe." https://ia601405.us.archive.org/2/items/the-journal-of-mental-science-48.1902m/The Journal of Mental Science 48.1902m.pdf
   
   
   
   
   
2. [09:37]
   "Certain differences, how- ever, are clearly brought out; the conclusion of those who have argued that women are darker than men is here definitely confirmed" FEMALE HORMONES MAKE YOU DARKER: BPcXLaJ.jpg "Composite faces of the (a) 10 women with highest and (b) 10 with lowest levels of late follicular oestrogen metabolite (oestrone-3-glucuronide, E1G)." https://faseb.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1096/fj.06-6649rev
   
   
   
   
   
3. 
   
4. 
   
5. 
   
6. [09:37]
   "During pregnancy (especially in the third trimester), elevated levels of estrogen, progesterone, and MSH have often been found in association with melasma" https://elifesciences.org/articles/15104
   

lol is this ur excuse to not go outside?
tan is always ideal

 

[Deleted member 26678]

opry is not the ideal masc hes downgrown with 0 ramus

? i never said he was ideal

 

[Deleted member 26859]

lol is this ur excuse to not go outside?
tan is always ideal

why would u want to look more filipino than more white lol

tan is good on females, not males

 

[SubSigma]

 

[longjohnmong]

no

 

[Deleted member 26678]

no

fdym no? then what are they?

 

[Deleted member 22354]

0 ramus

 

[longjohnmong]

fdym no? then what are they?

I mean that it is not exhaustive and "harmony" is not how close something is to the "ideal." There is no ideal. And there are principles of aesthetics that apply to everything, not just faces, that people employ when judging attractiveness (of course it's all subconscious).
Imagine trying to make a post "here are the factors that make a car cool looking" or "here are the factors that make a song sound good." It's just impossible. Yes, those are some of the factors. And, yes, there are certain prerequisites that something has to meet in order to be attractive. Think about in terms of some other area of aesthetics like art or music or literature. In literature, you can't sound like a complete retard (although someone could come along an cleverly break this rule). That's like in facial attractiveness, you can't have too much of a recessed chin (although there might be some combination of features that works with a recessed chin, but for the most part you can't have a recessed chin). But once the prerequisites are met, there are so many subtle things that can make someone ugly or attractive.

It's just too simple.

 

[Deleted member 26678]

I mean that it is not exhaustive and "harmony" is not how close something is to the "ideal." There is no ideal.

perfect facial harmony is perfect facial proportions. there are certainly ideal ratios that have been established so you are wrong there

And there are principles of aesthetics that apply to everything, not just faces, that people employ when judging attractiveness (of course it's all subconscious).
Imagine trying to make a post "here are the factors that make a car cool looking" or "here are the factors that make a song sound good." It's just impossible. Yes, those are some of the factors. And, yes, there are certain prerequisites that something has to meet in order to be attractive. Think about in terms of some other area of aesthetics like art or music or literature. In literature, you can't sound like a complete retard (although someone could come along an cleverly break this rule). That's like in facial attractiveness, you can't have too much of a recessed chin (although there might be some combination of features that works with a recessed chin, but for the most part you can't have a recessed chin). But once the prerequisites are met, there are so many subtle things that can make someone ugly or attractive.

not even joking, this is up there amongst the dumbest posts i've read on this forum

 

[longjohnmong]

perfect facial harmony is perfect facial proportions. there are certainly ideal ratios that have been established so you are wrong there

not even joking, this is up there amongst the dumbest posts i've read on this forum

No, they haven't.

Okay, cool. Can you explain why?

 

[Deleted member 17872]

a key distinction between sexual dimorphism and neoteny is that neoteny is favored in both sexes while dimorphic traits are only favored in one

What?

Anyway my list is better. Symmetry and neotony are kinda useless

Averageness and harmony
Dimrophism
Indicators of youth and fertility
Pheno/coloring

These are the things you need to be goodlooking.

 

[User49]

Sean O Pry Is Why Your Surgery Is Pointless

Severe overbite? No problem Elongated, downward grown jaw? Still good lower third Hooked and crooked nose with inward gonions? Literally doesn’t matter Yet he’s still undoubtedly 7 psl despite having “death sentences” like downward growth, round jaw, no ramus, malocclusion. he also has...

looksmax.org

 

[Deleted member 26678]

No, they haven't.

Okay, cool. Can you explain why?

data on ideal fwhr

Frontiers | The Association Between Facial Width-to-Height Ratio (fWHR) and Sporting Performances: Evidence From Professional Basketball Players in Japan

Previous research in evolutionary psychology has highlighted the potential role of facial structures in explaining human behavior. The facial width-to-height...

www.frontiersin.org

shoulder to waist

Shoulder to Waist Ratio Calculator

This shoulder to waist ratio calculator evaluates overall body shape and level of muscularity, also known as Adonis Index.

www.mdapp.co

facial thirds

The Rules of Attractiveness: A Study on the Lower Facial Third - PubMed

What is considered attractive may not fall into the "norm," and it can vary from culture to culture and depending on the historical time, for this reason the standard cephalometric and antropometric references may not be sufficient in these cases.Lately some techniques have arose to popularity...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

etc

And there are principles of aesthetics that apply to everything, not just faces, that people employ when judging attractiveness (of course it's all subconscious).

here you admit that objective aesthetics apply to everything which i never denied or even alluded to. obviously its mostly subconsious if you read what i said you would see the part where i said these ingrained ideal ratios tend to be hereditary

Imagine trying to make a post "here are the factors that make a car cool looking" or "here are the factors that make a song sound good." It's just impossible.

like what do i even say to this. of course its possible to make an objectively good looking song or car you fucking idiot

Yes, those are some of the factors. And, yes, there are certain prerequisites that something has to meet in order to be attractive. Think about in terms of some other area of aesthetics like art or music or literature. In literature, you can't sound like a complete retard (although someone could come along an cleverly break this rule). That's like in facial attractiveness, you can't have too much of a recessed chin (although there might be some combination of features that works with a recessed chin, but for the most part you can't have a recessed chin).

not even sure what i am supposed to deduce here it doesn't really make sense. maybe english isn't your first language?

But once the prerequisites are met, there are so many subtle things that can make someone ugly or attractive.

and what are those subtle mysterious things that make someone ugly and attractive granted that the prerequisites are met? the magic 'facial harmony' that people have no idea what they're talking spout?

 

[Deleted member 26678]

What?

not difficult really

having one aspect of sexual dimorphism such as hooded eyes are only favorable in one gender while it is not favored in the other

meanwhile neotenous traits such as clear skin are preferred on all sexes

Anyway my list is better. Symmetry and neotony are kinda useless

i would argue phenotype falls into the proportions aspect of beauty. someday they might be able to quantify coloring and even phenotype as a whole. you can also argue that some aspects of pheno fall under neoteny

ratios and averageness seem to be law while symmetry and neoteny just don't have to be awful

 

[Deleted member 17872]

not difficult really

having one aspect of sexual dimorphism such as hooded eyes are only favorable in one gender while it is not favored in the other

that's not sexual dimorphism. That's masculinity. You are doing the classic mistake of confusing dimorphism with masculinity. Big round eyes are dimorphic on women.

meanwhile neotenous traits such as clear skin are preferred on all sexes

Men can still get away with not having clear skin.

i would argue phenotype falls into the proportions aspect of beauty. someday they might be able to quantify coloring and phenotype as a whole. can also argue that some aspects fall under neoteny

ratios and averageness seem to be law while symmetry and neoteny just don't have to be awful

Phenotypes and coloring are more about familiarity, status and cultural factors. Than proportions per se.

 

[Deleted member 26678]

that's not sexual dimorphism. That's masculinity. You are doing the classic mistake of confusing dimorphism with masculinity. Big round eyes are dimorphic on women.

sexually dimorphic factors make someone masculine or feminine lmfao

at puberty the genders differ vastly and there are certain traits that are ideal in men that aren't in women and vice versa

Men can still get away with not having clear skin.

almost everything i am claiming here is in terms of ideals

so it is ideal for men to have clear skin

Phenotypes and coloring are more about familiarity, status and cultural factors. Than proportions per se.

yes there are cultural standards in place for sure

but it is objective that certain phenotypes look better than others

i am hypothesizing that there may be a way to quantify it to the point whee it isn't just familiarity or a cultural marker

 

[Deleted member 26678]

Sean O Pry Is Why Your Surgery Is Pointless

Severe overbite? No problem Elongated, downward grown jaw? Still good lower third Hooked and crooked nose with inward gonions? Literally doesn’t matter Yet he’s still undoubtedly 7 psl despite having “death sentences” like downward growth, round jaw, no ramus, malocclusion. he also has...

looksmax.org

?

o'pry is exceptional but if you are following strict psl standards he isn't 7 psl

 

[User49]

?

o'pry is exceptional but if you are following strict psl standards he isn't 7 psl

beauty is random

 

[Deleted member 17244]

tinder girl who saw my face irl for the first time @HerpDerpson

 

[Deleted member 17872]

sexually dimorphic factors make someone masculine or feminine lmfao

at puberty the genders differ vastly and there are certain traits that are ideal in men that aren't in women and vice versa

Idk what you are talking about? I'm only saying hooded eyes are dimorphic and females

almost everything i am claiming here is in terms of ideals

so it is ideal for men to have clear skin

For some women rough somewhat wrinkled skin is ideal.

yes there are cultural standards in place for sure

but it is objective that certain phenotypes look better than others

i am hypothesizing that there may be a way to quantify it to the point whee it isn't just familiarity or a cultural marker

I don't think we could ever fully understand beauty. We are just struggling in darkness trying to hold onto any support we could find.

 

[longjohnmong]

here you admit that objective aesthetics apply to everything which i never denied or even alluded to.

I don't think you're even capable of understanding it but my point is that there are general principles of aesthetics, which will apply to faces because that's what general means, whereas all of your factors are specific to human faces, so they can't possibly account for all the general principles.

It's not like people have a set of criteria for what makes a car attractive and then another set that makes cats attractive and then another set for shoes and so on. Clearly there have to be underlying principles that apply to everything, which, again, you haven't accounted for.

like what do i even say to this. of course its possible to make an objectively good looking song or car you fucking idiot

The fact that you think that's what I said is why you're the retard and I don't give a fuck what you think about anything. lol at "good looking song."

and what are those subtle mysterious things that make someone ugly and attractive granted that the prerequisites are met? the magic 'facial harmony' that people have no idea what they're talking spot?

The shape, texture, color of every other facial feature and how they work in combination.

 

[Deleted member 26678]

I don't think you're even capable of understanding it but my point is that there are general principles of aesthetics, which will apply to faces because that's what general means, whereas all of your factors are specific to human faces, so they can't possibly account for all the general principles.

aesthetics - a set of principles concerned with the nature and appreciation of beauty, especially in art

"general principles" aka proportions

of course there are different ideals when it comes to cars rather than faces
trying to sound intelligent when you are a confused and peddling dog

It's not like people have a set of criteria for what makes a car attractive and then another set that makes cats attractive and then another set for shoes and so on. Clearly there have to be underlying principles that apply to everything, which, again, you haven't accounted for.

okay

obviously people do not have set criteria for what is aesthetic

you said yourself

(of course it's all subconscious)

obviously no one goes into it saying "i decide that the most pleasing mfr is 1:1"

how are you deducing that i have not accounted for the underlying principles of beauty when i literally explained them to you in the post

The fact that you think that's what I said is why you're the retard and I don't give a fuck what you think about anything. lol at "good looking song."

was typing fast and had an error so ig you had to default ad hominem there

but looks like you backed off of there not being an objectively good song or good looking car so that's a step in the right direction

The shape, texture, color of every other facial feature and how they work in combination.

HHAHAHAHAH you're one of the harmony tards that say "how features work in combination" i highlighted that is called proportions aka FACIAL HARMONY

shape texture and color all fall under what i discussed also within cultural factors neoteny etc.

 

[HerpDerpson]

tinder girl who saw my face irl for the first time @HerpDerpson

Are your sure she's reacting to face and not height?

 

[Deleted member 17244]

Are your sure she's reacting to face and not height?

Yes. 5PSL or rope

 

[optimisticzoomer]

Absolute water

Joined: Feb 19, 2023

 

[Deleted member 26678]

Absolute water

Joined: Feb 19, 2023

seems like it’s not though

you’ll still see this harmony coping everywhere along with no one being able to explain the significance of averageness

 

[longjohnmong]

seems like it’s not though

you’ll still see this harmony coping everywhere along with no one being able to explain the significance of averageness

Just because you don't understand harmony doesn't make it cope. Like, in your retard brain is the nose just l x w x h with no shape or anything? What about the lips? You think the shape of the lips doesn't matter? Again, eyes? Just l x w x h?

The fact that you can't just look at a bunch of faces and realize that it's way more complicated than how close they are to "ideal proportions" just automatically disqualifies all your thoughts on this issue. I know you subsequently added "angle" to your explanation. Why don't you add line, curve, and shape as well. And then maybe you can arrive at "Bro, harmony is just every part of the face."

 

[Deleted member 26678]

Just because you don't understand harmony doesn't make it cope.

the abused dog is back for more lessons. this isn't even an argument anymore this is just me explaining to you things you do not understand

Like, in your retard brain is the nose just l x w x h with no shape or anything? What about the lips? You think the shape of the lips doesn't matter? Again, eyes? Just l x w x h?

obviously there are more components than just the math (again i have highlighted them in the post) when did i say that ratios were the only thing that aesthetics were comprised of?

the shape of the lips and eyes fall under many components of beauty and i have brought them up in the original post

The fact that you can't just look at a bunch of faces and realize that it's way more complicated than how close they are to "ideal proportions" just automatically disqualifies all your thoughts on this issue.

again, i have not and am not saying that proportions are the end all be all of beauty

I know you subsequently added "angle" to your explanation. Why don't you add line, curve, and shape as well. And then maybe you can arrive at "Bro, harmony is just every part of the face."

you lack reading comprehension and ability to read through lines

angles, ratios, proportins, curves, shapes, facial harmony, harmony, are all under the same umbrella

ratios and angles are the most common methods of determining proportions. but yes there are also ideal curves and shapes like almond eye shape and the ideal ogee curve

 

[longjohnmong]

.

 

[longjohnmong]

ratios and angles are the most common methods of determining proportions. but yes there are also ideal curves and shapes like almond eye shape and the ideal ogee curve

lol. so as expected all you're saying is that harmony is just the way you look. wow. fancy that. all of the various features of the face contribute to harmony, but we'll just call it "angles and proportions and their interrelatedness" from now on.

 

[Deleted member 26678]

lol. so as expected all you're saying is that harmony is just the way you look. wow. fancy that. all of the various features of the face contribute to harmony, but we'll just call it "angles and proportions and their interrelatedness" from now on.

okay so you are saying harmony is random because of “various features” even though i explained how they can be quantified

 

[Deleted member 16357]

if you then get a chin implant to add chin height, thus making your chin to philtrum ratio fall within the ideal, your facial harmony has just improved

No it hasn’t, i can find thousands of examples demonstrating the opposite with each and every one of these “scientific” ratios.
Shit thread reiterating what has already been said here a hundred times and pretending the problems that have been found with it don’t exist.

 

[longjohnmong]

okay so you are saying harmony is random because of “various features” even though i explained how they can be quantified

I'm not saying harmony is random. I'm saying that it's impossibly complex. Tell me how all the angles, lines, curves, ratios of the lips interact with the same things that describe the eyes. And now what happens if I change the angles of the cheekbones, or the curve of the top of the head, or the shape of the eyebrows? There's an infinite combination of features and each create their own unique gestalt.

 

[Deleted member 26678]

I'm not saying harmony is random. I'm saying that it's impossibly complex.

it is not impossibly complex, many of these canons have been quantified millennia ago

Tell me how all the angles, lines, curves, ratios of the lips interact with the same things that describe the eyes. And now what happens if I change the angles of the cheekbones, or the curve of the top of the head, or the shape of the eyebrows? There's an infinite combination of features and each create their own unique gestalt.

what are you even trying to say? of course if you change one aspect of the face other parts of it will be impacted. again that is a part of facial harmony

 

[longjohnmong]

it is not impossibly complex, many of these canons have been quantified millennia ago

Post them? I want to read a treatise on eyebrow shape.

 

[Deleted member 26678]

Post them? I want to read a treatise on eyebrow shape.

you can keep trying with your tirade but there will be data that can explain a beauty standard

 

[longjohnmong]

You always know you're dealing with a redditor when they have to throw some nerd insult into every response.

Anyway, that youtube video doesn't appear to a millennia old canon, but whatever. How does it account for Jason Mamoas eyebrows and the harmony they create with the rest of his features? Would those same eyebrows work on a face with different features? Answer that question without looking an example, since your complete theory of looks should be able to predict it.

 

[Lebgfinal]

perfect facial harmony is perfect facial proportions. there are certainly ideal ratios that have been established so you are wrong there

not even joking, this is up there amongst the dumbest posts i've read on this forum

Maybe people won't agree with me, harmony is just how well your features go together, looking good is a form of art right, thinking something looking good can be predicted by ratios doesn't work. An art need to be seen by people judging how good it actually looks, there no calculations to know how it looks good because looking good is only a question of tastes, an objective subjectivity.
If it was the case, every gl people would need to have the same facial ratios to look good when in reality it's not the case, people can look good with totally different features, yes they all share attractive characteristics, but the reason they look good is because of what we call harmony.

 

[Deleted member 26678]

Maybe people won't agree with me, harmony is just how well your features go together

i would hope they won't agree with you because you are objectively wrong by making out harmony to be an arbitrary rule that determines if you are good looking

what you are saying is akin to saying "maybe people won't agree with me, 2+2=5."

looking good is a form of art right, thinking something looking good can be predicted by ratios doesn't work.

no, predicting looks by ratios is definitely a good way to predict if someone is gl. it is not a coincidence that the people with the best ratios and angles are celebrated as the best looking people in the world (chico, hexum, barrett, lima, etc.)

An art need to be seen by people judging how good it actually looks, there no calculations to know how it looks good because looking good is only a question of tastes, an objective subjectivity.
If it was the case, every gl people would need to have the same facial ratios to look good when in reality it's not the case, people can look good with totally different features, yes they all share attractive characteristics, but the reason they look good is because of what we call harmony.

you answered your own stupid paradigm but are unable to even realize what you are saying

facial harmony = ratios and angles

that is what harmony is, if you can prove to me that it is not that please do that

you are right, facial harmony is one of the reasons gl people look good. you just do not understand what harmony means

 

[Lebgfinal]

i would hope they won't agree with you because you are objectively wrong by making out harmony to be an arbitrary rule that determines if you are good looking

what you are saying is akin to saying "maybe people won't agree with me, 2+2=5."



no, predicting looks by ratios is definitely a good way to predict if someone is gl. it is not a coincidence that the people with the best ratios and angles are celebrated as the best looking people in the world (chico, hexum, barrett, lima, etc.)



you answered your own stupid paradigm but are unable to even realize what you are saying

facial harmony = ratios and angles

you are right, that is one of the reasons gl people look good. you just do not understand what harmony means

that is what harmony is, if you can prove to me that it is not that please do that

Ratios can be a good way to predict someone attractiveness, and I think obviously there objective traits that are most of the time closer from looking good, but in some case having completely perfect ratios will make you look uncanny, and some people with flaws will actually have more appeal. It's all about the big package, and I'm not sure how saying that there some objective traits which are more close to what looks good disprove my point. Everything is subjective, but subjectivity navigate around some objective traits. A lot of the "best looking people in the world" are also famous and I assure you some tiktok pretty boy with worse ratios/perfect features than like, jordan barret will have as much female attention.

 

[Deleted member 26678]

Ratios can be a good way to predict someone attractiveness, and I think obviously there objective traits that are most of the time closer from looking good, but in some case having completely perfect ratios will make you look uncanny, and some people with flaws will actually have more appeal.

appeal coping now

sexual selection ≠ aesthetics

yes barrett and o'pry can be unironically too good looking for the broadest appeal, but they are better looking than people with more appeal because beauty is objective

It's all about the big package, and I'm not sure how saying that there some objective traits which are more close to what looks good disprove my point.

the "big package" consists of the factors i explained in the original post. the rest of your sentence does not make sense.

Everything is subjective, but subjectivity navigate around some objective traits. A lot of the "best looking people in the world" are also famous and I assure you some tiktok pretty boy with worse ratios/perfect features than like, jordan barret will have as much female attention.

hwg

just because some tik tok faggot has girls in his comments does not mean that he is good looking

female attention ≠ aesthetics

that being said being 7 psl guarantees that you have peak female appeal regardless but that isn't the point

 

[Lebgfinal]

appeal coping now

sexual selection ≠ aesthetics

yes barrett and o'pry can be unironically too good looking for the broadest appeal, but they are better looking than people with more appeal because beauty is objective

the "big package" consists of the factors i explained in the original post. the rest of your sentence does not make sense.

hwg

just because some tik tok faggot has girls in his comments does not mean that he is good looking

female attention ≠ aesthetics

that being said being 7 psl guarantees that you have peak female appeal regardless but that isn't the point

If a guy on TikTok has girls saying he is gl, he is gl, and I assure you barret isn’t their wildest dream chad.

 

[longjohnmong]

facial harmony = ratios and angles

When you say angles, do you mean the angle of every contour on the face? How do you describe hooded eyes with angles? How do you describe almond eyes with angles?

 

[Deleted member 26678]

When you say angles, do you mean the angle of every contour on the face? How do you describe hooded eyes with angles? How do you describe almond eyes with angles?

remember when i say ratios and angles i am using it as under the umbrella term for every proportion

but for angles there are certain angles of the face that are ideal and occur at sections of the face, for example the jaw frontal angle and nasofrontal angle. every contour of the face is not an angle

again beauty is not just proportions. ex the fat pads associated with hooded eyes can be attributed to youthful and healthy skin which i would classify under neoteny