How male pattern balding actually works

[x30001]

So if your body doesn't agonise the "Frizzled" receptor with Wnt, you have male pattern balding. Don't try agonise Frizzled with something like CAS 853220-52-7. The Wnt pathway is heavily involved in the modulation of cancer cells too. The geniuses at samumed were able to isolate a molecule to cure the hairloss disease without any side effects and the phase 1&2 clinical trials have been nothing short of a miracle. Unfortunately since Male Pattern Baldness isn't treated as a "Life Threatening disease", sm04554 will most likely be the singlemost expensive treatment that has ever existed, due to the extreme inelastic demand and the fact that you won't literally "die" if you're not treated. Bald CEOs are probably very eager for this.

 

[Framletgod]

tldr`?

 

[x30001]

tldr`?

TLDR: You're either fucked or not. Finasteride won't save your sorry ass from eventually going bald. There's only one way you can be saved.

 

[jefferson]

TLDR: You're either fucked or not. Finasteride won't save your sorry ass from eventually going bald. There's only one way you can be saved.

it's not really a matter of having it or not though. How many 60 year olds do you see with no receding? They exist but are extremely rare. Every white person ever has MPB just to varying degrees.

native americans are the only ones without male pattern baldness pretty much.

 

[De_Looksmaxing]

Better go with hair transplant than fin

 

[Deleted member 1106]

Finasteride alone can slow down the balding process for decades which is enough for most people here, I dont give a shit about having a good hairline in my late 30's - early 40's

 

[Deleted member 1089]

This shit is too complicated for me

Finasteride alone can slow down the balding process for decades which is enough for most people here, I dont give a shit about having a good hairline in my late 30's - early 40's

Same bro, I just want hair from 18-30.

 

[Deleted member 1560]

it's not really a matter of having it or not though. How many 60 year olds do you see with no receding? They exist but are extremely rare. Every white person ever has MPB just to varying degrees.

native americans are the only ones without male pattern baldness pretty much.

You forgot the asians

 

[jefferson]

You forgot the asians

they still have it but not as bad as white guys.

 

[FatJattMofo]

it's not really a matter of having it or not though. How many 60 year olds do you see with no receding? They exist but are extremely rare. Every white person ever has MPB just to varying degrees.

native americans are the only ones without male pattern baldness pretty much.

I know a couple of old men in my family don't haven't receded

 

[Deleted member 1560]

they still have it but not as bad as white guys.

Over for balding men

I know a couple of old men in my family don't haven't receded

Exactly even in my fam too

 

[jefferson]

I know a couple of old men in my family don't haven't receded

Still doesn't mean they don't have male pattern baldness. If they blasted tren for years they'd go bald.

If someone truly doesn't have male pattern baldness their hair would be completely unaffected by all androgens. And that just doesn't exist outside of north americans.

 

[x30001]

it's not really a matter of having it or not though. How many 60 year olds do you see with no receding? They exist but are extremely rare. Every white person ever has MPB just to varying degrees.

native americans are the only ones without male pattern baldness pretty much.

Thinning definitely happens in pretty much all males as a function of aging. My Dad 53 and Grandad 89 have thinned hair but not norwooded. It's because Frizzled agonism by Wnt causes an overactive Anagen stage, and leaving Frizzled inactive won't cause the over active Anagen stage relative to everyone's Catagen phase. Those who don't have a stimulated Anagen phase brought on by Wnt pathway activation will have a proportionately greater amount of activity in the Catagen phase, by default. DHT is the main reason for an aggressive Catagen phase, and that's why lowering DHT actually does work at slowing down hairloss and even preventing for a substantial period of time, and even regrowth (ie: when you first start Dutasteride you can experience some actual regrowth). It's to do with the ratio of activity between the Anagen and Catagen phases in the hair cycle. And without Wnt signalling, you won't have an overactive Anagen phase. The proportion of activity in each phase relative to each other is why some people Norwood faster than others, and some slower than others. So with roids, elevated DHT and androgens will increase activity in the Catagen phase. Your Anagen phase may be more active (if your body can agonise Frizzled with Wnt), or it may be less active, (If you've MBP basically). The activity levels within each phase of the cycle relative to each other, over time is what causes quick norwooding, slow norwooding, or hair restoration. Complete hair restoration into old age is almost impossible currently because no one can have a totally inactive Catagen phase. However, an inactive Frizzled receptor is what causes Nordwooding and the MBP style receeding. If you see old people with thinned hair without a conventional Norwood pattern, they have Wnt signalling (ie: No predisposition to MPB), but have a proportionately more active Catagen phase than Anagen phase in their hair cycles due to age related reasons. The Wnt Signalling still keeps the Anagen phase stimulated and growth/proliferation still occurs, just not at the speed of the rate of destruction in their Catagen phases due to reasons related to aging completely independent of Wnt signalling.

 

[jefferson]

Thinning definitely happens in pretty much all males as a function of aging. My Dad 53 and Grandad 89 have thinned hair but not norwooded. It's because Frizzled agonism by Wnt causes an overactive Anagen stage, and leaving Frizzled inactive won't cause the over active Anagen stage relative to everyone's Catagen phase. Those who don't have a stimulated Anagen phase brought on by Wnt pathway activation will have a proportionately greater amount of activity in the Catagen phase, by default. DHT is the main reason for an aggressive Catagen phase, and that's why lowering DHT actually does work at slowing down hairloss and even preventing for a substantial period of time, and even regrowth (ie: when you first start Dutasteride you can experience some actual regrowth). It's to do with the ratio of activity between the Anagen and Catagen phases in the hair cycle. And without Wnt signalling, you won't have an overactive Anagen phase. The proportion of activity in each phase relative to each other is why some people Norwood faster than others, and some slower than others. So with roids, elevated DHT and androgens will increase activity in the Catagen phase. Your Anagen phase may be more active (if your body can agonise Frizzled with Wnt), or it may be less active, (If you've MBP basically). The activity levels within each phase of the cycle relative to each other, over time is what causes quick norwooding, slow norwooding, or hair restoration. Complete hair restoration into old age is almost impossible currently because no one can have a totally inactive Catagen phase. However, an inactive Frizzled receptor is what causes Nordwooding and the MBP style receeding. If you see old people with thinned hair without a conventional Norwood pattern, they have Wnt signalling (ie: No predisposition to MPB), but have a proportionately more active Catagen phase than Anagen phase in their hair cycles due to age related reasons. The Wnt Signalling still keeps the Anagen phase stimulated and growth/proliferation still occurs, just not at the speed of the rate of destruction in their Catagen phases due to reasons related to aging completely independent of Wnt signalling.

Some white guys may be not sensitive enough to androgens to make it to old age without receding. But ZERO white guys are able to take heavy doses of androgens for years without protection like fin/ru and not recede. Thus every single white guy can have male pattern baldness caused by androgen.

There is no such thing as a white person with no mpb. Some are just very resistant to the point where they won't really go bald on natty androgens. Enough tren and masteron will make any white guy receed given enough time.

 

[x30001]

Enough tren and masteron will make any white guy receed given enough time.

Yeah you're right. Because your Catagen phases will be out of control relative to your Anagen phases even if you're not predisposed to MPB. Wnt Signalling (not being predisposed to MPB) gives you a huge huge chance of keeping your hair, and you will keep it, but if you blast Tren, Masteron, Winstrol etc and try to start losing your hair, you will, even if not predisposed. I don't know why anyone would want to blast roids for years/decades though.

 

[jefferson]

Yeah you're right. Because your Catagen phases will be out of control relative to your Anagen phases even if you're not predisposed to MPB. Wnt Signalling (not being predisposed to MPB) gives you a huge huge chance of keeping your hair, and you will keep it, but if you blast Tren, Masteron, Winstrol etc and try to start losing your hair, you will, even if not predisposed. I don't know why anyone would want to blast roids for years/decades though.

I want to use moderate doses for test for decades. And maybe other mild thinks like primo. Not the other stuff.

 

[x30001]

So if your body doesn't agonise the "Frizzled" receptor with Wnt, you have male pattern balding. Don't try agonise Frizzled with something like CAS 853220-52-7. The Wnt pathway is heavily involved in the modulation of cancer cells too. The geniuses at samumed were able to isolate a molecule to cure the hairloss disease without any side effects and the phase 1&2 clinical trials have been nothing short of a miracle. Unfortunately since Male Pattern Baldness isn't treated as a "Life Threatening disease", sm04554 will most likely be the singlemost expensive treatment that has ever existed, due to the extreme inelastic demand and the fact that you won't literally "die" if you're not treated. Bald CEOs are probably very eager for this.

Okay basically a TLDR because @jefferson makes some good points.

MPB predisposition = Underactive Anagen Phase
Androgenic Alopecia = Brought on by an overactive Catagen Phase (which is proportionately more destructive than your Anagen phases are constructive, at any given moment)

Androgenic Alopecia speeds up Norwooding like crazy due to high Androgens from roid use.

Roid user with MPB predisposition and self induced overactive Catagen phase(s) = High Catagen:Anagen activity ratio. Means you are turbo fucked! Lets say the ratio for this guy is like 14.5:1

Roid user without MPB predisposition (genetically predisposed to a more active Anagen phase) and self induced overactive Catagen phase(s) = High Catagen:Anagen activity ratio, but less high than the MBP prone male since he genetically has more activity in his Anagen phases. So essentially he has more "genetic cushioning". Lets say his Catagen:Anagen activity ratio is 5.3:1.

Once someone stops steroids and stops raping their hair during their Catagen phases, the proliferation during their Anagen phase is still at a nice level (as it always has been), that will never change. He will be able to keep a less destructive C:A ratio for the rest of his life.

Once someone stops steroids and stops raping their hair during their Catagen phases AND is predisposed to MPB, the proliferation during their Anagen phase is still genetically fucked (as it always has been), that will never change. He will have a fucking devastating C:A ratio due to the fact that he was predisposed to have a more underactive Anagen phase (for his whole life) than non MPB predisposed men. His C:A ratio was always due to be bleak because his body can't agonise "Frizzled" with Wnt. However, since he elevated his Catagen phase activity through increased destruction from AAS, that sped up his balding process.

 

[xForgotMyName]

mfw reading this thread while already buzzpilled

 

[x30001]

I want to use moderate doses for test for decades. And maybe other mild thinks like primo. Not the other stuff.

Yeah man I thought of taking primo before since the Androgenic:Anabolic ratios really hold true when it comes to hairloss. Weirdly they don't necessarily hold true for muscle building. Like Halotestin with 800:1700 Androgenic/Anabolic, it'll fucking raaape your hair. Tren at 500 is really high and even though Primo is a DHT derivative, it's not a direct DHT compound and has a low level of Androgenicity.

I understand it's not fucking easy at all to just get off roids. You may be lucky and not be predisposed to MBP. I realised recently that purposely elevating activity in your Catagen phase is like purposely putting yourself in debt. There's no way to tell if anyone is predisposed to MPB or not. But it's cool to see you want to do what you can to make things better and I hope sm04554 comes out next year and won't cost millions of $ per year for "treatment". But idk. It's really not over if you're not predisposed and if you are predisposed well then, I guess it never began . Best course of action is to get on Fin/Dut and stay on TRT doses for now. But it's best that you don't take steroids for years to come and if there is a way to get off of them, then definitely do so! You're still 20, the longer you're on TRT, the harder it'll be to come off. MPMD really regrets having to stay on TRT for life and his #1 priority is his hair and longevity. I inadvertently took a "Test Booster" in my teens which was probably sdrol or msten or some prohormone/designer roid. The negative effects like acne, gyno etc were a nightmare to deal with but luckily I'm fine now. I really think Clomid/Nolva could get you off the roids now. Just need to be straight up with the doctors and if they won't give you them, then hopefully some professional can recommend an aggressive PCT that'll get your endocrine system running again.

BTW: Red light therapy on the balls actually upregulates the function of the Leydig Cells and can maybe kick start your LH/FSH. It's a shot in the dark but could definitely work.

 

[jefferson]

Yeah man I thought of taking primo before since the Androgenic:Anabolic ratios really hold true when it comes to hairloss. Weirdly they don't necessarily hold true for muscle building. Like Halotestin with 800:1700 Androgenic/Anabolic, it'll fucking raaape your hair. Tren at 500 is really high and even though Primo is a DHT derivative, it's not a direct DHT compound and has a low level of Androgenicity.

I understand it's not fucking easy at all to just get off roids. You may be lucky and not be predisposed to MBP. I realised recently that purposely elevating activity in your Catagen phase is like purposely putting yourself in debt. There's no way to tell if anyone is predisposed to MPB or not. But it's cool to see you want to do what you can to make things better and I hope sm04554 comes out next year and won't cost millions of $ per year for "treatment". But idk. It's really not over if you're not predisposed and if you are predisposed well then, I guess it never began . Best course of action is to get on Fin/Dut and stay on TRT doses for now. But it's best that you don't take steroids for years to come and if there is a way to get off of them, then definitely do so! You're still 20, the longer you're on TRT, the harder it'll be to come off. MPMD really regrets having to stay on TRT for life and his #1 priority is his hair and longevity. I inadvertently took a "Test Booster" in my teens which was probably sdrol or msten or some prohormone/designer roid. The negative effects like acne, gyno etc were a nightmare to deal with but luckily I'm fine now. I really think Clomid/Nolva could get you off the roids now. Just need to be straight up with the doctors and if they won't give you them, then hopefully some professional can recommend an aggressive PCT that'll get your endocrine system running again.

BTW: Red light therapy on the balls actually upregulates the function of the Leydig Cells and can maybe kick start your LH/FSH. It's a shot in the dark but could definitely work.

No those ratios don't hold true for hairloss. Those ratios mean almost nothing in terms of real world results, don't even bother with them.

winstrols androgenic rating: 20
masterons androgenic rating:24

yet those are two of the worst steroids know to man when it comes to hairloss...

and with my natural testosterone I had all the classic low T symptoms. It would be stupid of me to try and come off.

 

[Deleted member 1849]

I'm so lucky. My dad has always had hair. he's 50 now. its receding. but he's never gonna go bald. lifefuel

 

[x30001]

No those ratios don't hold true for hairloss. Those ratios mean almost nothing in terms of real world results, don't even bother with them.

winstrols androgenic rating: 20
masterons androgenic rating:24

yet those are two of the worst steroids know to man when it comes to hairloss...

and with my natural testosterone I had all the classic low T symptoms. It would be stupid of me to try and come off.

Ah Fair enough but aren't they direct DHT compounds? Primo is a DHT derivative. I can understand why direct DHT roids are very bad for hair despite having a low Androgen rating. DHT is the #1 aggressor no doubt. But I think Primo is relatively safe for hairloss since it's a synthetic androstane and just a DHT derivative. Yeah Masteron and Winstrol are fucked xD

 

[paulie_walnuts]

just lol if you dont marry a native indian woman tbh
brb booking flight to bolivia
good fatherhood starts with picking the right mother

 

[jefferson]

Ah Fair enough but aren't they direct DHT compounds? Primo is a DHT derivative. I can understand why direct DHT roids are very bad for hair despite having a low Androgen rating. DHT is the #1 aggressor no doubt. But I think Primo is relatively safe for hairloss since it's a synthetic androstane and just a DHT derivative. Yeah Masteron and Winstrol are fucked xD

Primo and anavar are dht derivatives but very hair safe as far as steroids go. So yeah it doesn't really have to do with the ratios or what they are derived from. I don't know how you'd even measure it.

I actually have a bunch of winstrol right now and part of me want to use it to get shredded but then I look at my hair and go naahhhh.

 

[Wannabe6ft2]

Still doesn't mean they don't have male pattern baldness. If they blasted tren for years they'd go bald.

If someone truly doesn't have male pattern baldness their hair would be completely unaffected by all androgens. And that just doesn't exist outside of north americans.

Surely if a Native American blasted tren he’d still experience some balding? That’s insane if not.

 

[jefferson]

Surely if a Native American blasted tren he’d still experience some balding? That’s insane if not.

apparently not

pureblooded north americans though, if they are mixed race they probably inherited the mpb genes.

 

[Wannabe6ft2]

So could things like grape seed supplements help with balding as I’m pretty sure there was a study that said it doubles the Anagen phase of hair?
Also thoughts on breezula as a possible treatments @x30001 ?

 

[jackthenerd]

Finasteride alone can slow down the balding process for decades which is enough for most people here, I dont give a shit about having a good hairline in my late 30's - early 40's

I do. I'm not peaking until my late 30's, just being honest.

 

[I'mme]

I'm so lucky. My dad has always had hair. he's 50 now. its receding. but he's never gonna go bald. lifefuel

My dad is also more than 45 and has full head of hair and is NW0, and I started AGA when I was 14. Suicidefuel
(on a serious note, chill you're unlikely to get hair Loss)
@x30001 why does Spironolactone works so well for MPB/AGA? I mean when combined w Fin/Dut, it (almost) reversed hair loss in many cases.

 

[KrissKross]

Fap maxxing will make you lose hair like a mother fucker, I don’t have evidence for it but I’m 90% sure it does.

 

[Wannabe6ft2]

Fap maxxing will make you lose hair like a mother fucker, I don’t have evidence for it but I’m 90% sure it does.

Do you have studies at least. Anything at all?

 

[KrissKross]

Do you have studies at least. Anything at all?

No sorry I don't. Just anecdotal.
Not advocating for NoFap, more like LowFap.

 

[CopingCel]

Okay basically a TLDR because @jefferson makes some good points.

MPB predisposition = Underactive Anagen Phase
Androgenic Alopecia = Brought on by an overactive Catagen Phase (which is proportionately more destructive than your Anagen phases are constructive, at any given moment)

Androgenic Alopecia speeds up Norwooding like crazy due to high Androgens from roid use.

Roid user with MPB predisposition and self induced overactive Catagen phase(s) = High Catagen:Anagen activity ratio. Means you are turbo fucked! Lets say the ratio for this guy is like 14.5:1

Roid user without MPB predisposition (genetically predisposed to a more active Anagen phase) and self induced overactive Catagen phase(s) = High Catagen:Anagen activity ratio, but less high than the MBP prone male since he genetically has more activity in his Anagen phases. So essentially he has more "genetic cushioning". Lets say his Catagen:Anagen activity ratio is 5.3:1.

Once someone stops steroids and stops raping their hair during their Catagen phases, the proliferation during their Anagen phase is still at a nice level (as it always has been), that will never change. He will be able to keep a less destructive C:A ratio for the rest of his life.

Once someone stops steroids and stops raping their hair during their Catagen phases AND is predisposed to MPB, the proliferation during their Anagen phase is still genetically fucked (as it always has been), that will never change. He will have a fucking devastating C:A ratio due to the fact that he was predisposed to have a more underactive Anagen phase (for his whole life) than non MPB predisposed men. His C:A ratio was always due to be bleak because his body can't agonise "Frizzled" with Wnt. However, since he elevated his Catagen phase activity through increased destruction from AAS, that sped up his balding process.

What if you take finasteride while being on roids?

 

[DoctorLooksmax]

What if you take finasteride while being on roids?

Fins steroids prevents conversion of test to DHT so it is very effective a preventing hair loss from testosterone. However it will do nothing to stop tren, mast etc destroying your hair

 

[I'mme]

Fap maxxing will make you lose hair like a mother fucker, I don’t have evidence for it but I’m 90% sure it does.

It increases prolactin which has been found to cause HL / aggravate AA, so yes.

 

[Deleted member 1106]

It increases prolactin which has been found to cause HL / aggravate AA, so yes.

So nofap would be legit in that regard then? Or just min fap?

 

[I'mme]

So nofap would be legit in that regard then? Or just min fap?

Nofap can lead to treacherous consequences more so when you are on Finasteride.

 

[Deleted member 1849]

s

My dad is also more than 45 and has full head of hair and is NW0, and I started AGA when I was 14. Suicidefuel
(on a serious note, chill you're unlikely to get hair Loss)
@x30001 why does Spironolactone works so well for MPB/AGA? I mean when combined w Fin/Dut, it (almost) reversed hair loss in many cases.

oof. find some way to reverse those effects!

 

[Deleted member 1106]

Nofap can lead to treacherous consequences more so when you are on Finasteride.

I assume thats to do with the "testosterone increase" once you pass the 1 week mark.
I read somewhere that testosterone peaks at the one week and then drops agaij to relatively normal levels (the increase of like 20% still presists though)

 

[I'mme]

I assume thats to do with the "testosterone increase" once you pass the 1 week mark.
I read somewhere that testosterone peaks at the one week and then drops agaij to relatively normal levels (the increase of like 20% still presists though)

Yes, that's why fin aggravates hair loss in some individuals.

But what I was trying to say is these drugs like Finasteride, Spirono, Dut may cause harm to penis or/and its activities. So it's better that the person on these drugs keep using it (penis).

 

[Deleted member 1849]

s

oof. find some way to reverse those effects!

My hair is super think and bushy. I probably won"t ever go bald lol

 

[Mr_Norwood]

Why are us Brits more bald than other races? I have noticed btw

Maybe it's to do with we eat the most unhealthiest carb-loaded diets in Europe? Or perhaps its the mineral content of our water

 

[CarlSagan96]

So if your body doesn't agonise the "Frizzled" receptor with Wnt, you have male pattern balding. Don't try agonise Frizzled with something like CAS 853220-52-7. The Wnt pathway is heavily involved in the modulation of cancer cells too. The geniuses at samumed were able to isolate a molecule to cure the hairloss disease without any side effects and the phase 1&2 clinical trials have been nothing short of a miracle. Unfortunately since Male Pattern Baldness isn't treated as a "Life Threatening disease", sm04554 will most likely be the singlemost expensive treatment that has ever existed, due to the extreme inelastic demand and the fact that you won't literally "die" if you're not treated. Bald CEOs are probably very eager for this.

What is your opinion on heightmaxxing?

 

[x30001]

On norwood reaper's list

Not on norwood reaper's list

 

[Darth Cialis]

I know a song that makes your hair regrow but I won't tell anyone.

Better go with hair transplant than fin

I thought as a hair transplant patient you needed fin.

 

[im_still_here]

So if your body doesn't agonise the "Frizzled" receptor with Wnt, you have male pattern balding. Don't try agonise Frizzled with something like CAS 853220-52-7. The Wnt pathway is heavily involved in the modulation of cancer cells too. The geniuses at samumed were able to isolate a molecule to cure the hairloss disease without any side effects and the phase 1&2 clinical trials have been nothing short of a miracle. Unfortunately since Male Pattern Baldness isn't treated as a "Life Threatening disease", sm04554 will most likely be the singlemost expensive treatment that has ever existed, due to the extreme inelastic demand and the fact that you won't literally "die" if you're not treated. Bald CEOs are probably very eager for this.

if its legit i have no problems to fly into some north korean underground labatory and get it done for little money

 

[6ft4]

I really think Clomid/Nolva could get you off the roids now. Just need to be straight up with the doctors and if they won't give you them, then hopefully some professional can recommend an aggressive PCT that'll get your endocrine system running again.

I came off roids in June with no PCT and feel fine, my testicles are still a bit shrunken tho, I'm putting off getting my T levels checked in case they're close to 0

Is it low IQ to not do a PCT?

Part of my hairline receded back in November when I was running tren so I switched to just 200mg test and my hairline remained the same until June, then once I came off the hair I had lost started growing back and I'm now NW1 again

I used to think that it's optimal to run at least 200mg test year round and throw in an oral or another injectable here and there but now I actually think cycling is optimal since any level of exogenous hormones can prevent your body being in it's state of homeostasis hence leading to side effects.

 

[Ekeoma_The_BBC]

Samumed's Compound Structure | Hair Loss Cure 2020

For the first time ever, Samumed has published the chemical structure of its main Wnt/ß-catenin signaling compound (SM04554) to treat hair loss.

www.hairlosscure2020.com

I'm not sure if I understood this correctly, if they released the compound structure doesnt it mean other companies would be able to recreate this mollecule?

I saw offers on alibaba such as this one:

This product is no longer available.

This product is no longer available.

www.alibaba.com

I wish I could understand the details
2H-Indol-2-one, 6-broMo-3-[(3E)-1,3-dihydro-3-(hydroxyiMino)-2H-indol-2-ylidene]-1,3-dihydro-, (3Z)-;6BIO;6-bromoindirubin-3-oxime;GSK3 Inhibitor IX1;BIO(GSK-3 Inhibitor IX;BIO (SM04554)
@x30001 tagging for your opinion

 

[Dogs]

Why would they not release it to the public on a massive scale, can they not patent it is that why? Every single person on fin would take this, + people that aren't on fin but considering, + even way more people. Doesn't make sense.

 

[LordNorwood]

If this shit actually works as advertised I will sell my organs to buy it ngl