How To Stop The Progression of Androgenetic Alopecia (+ Possibly Reverse It) Without Compromising Sexual Function and Cognitive&Mental Health

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samskeyti

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What i'm going to write is purely theoretical. I haven't experimented with this entire regimen, however, from a theoretical standpoint, this stack of medications should pinpointly address both androgenetic alopecia and prevent any possible sexual dysfunction and mental&cognitive problem due to 5ar-reductase inhibition.

We all already know the basics of AGA, but I have to begin from scratch to build up to the point I want to make. DHT is the main culprit in AGA. All the other "blood flow" or "calcification" theories of AGA are either psuedo-scientific or just very negligible factors as long as DHT is addressed. They don't make sense on their own. It's the scalp dht that binds to androgen receptors in the hair follicles which causes miniaturization and therefore hair loss, serum dht and dht in other tissues are irrelevant. However, there is no way to effectively lower scalp dht levels without lowering the serum and local production of dht in other 5ar dense tissues, such as skin, prostate and penis. DHT is a paracrine hormone, which means that serum and local concentrations of DHT don't equally correspond. Topical finasteride goes systemic, it's been shown by numerous studies. Topical dutasteride would go systemic as well but the situation is even worse for it since due to the molecular weight of dutasteride, whether it penetrates the scalp skin effectively and works is still a debate topic. So, with the currently available set of drugs, we have to use an oral 5ar inhibitor. Now, you may ask; "What about RU58841?" RU58841 has indeed negligible systemic absorption which does not lead to any physiological effects when used at proper doses (50-75 mg per day). However, from what I've seen in the user anecdotes, RU58841 as a standalone monotherapy fails to treat AGA %99 of the time. There are two reasons for this: 1. RU58841 has %5 of the binding affinity of DHT to androgen receptor, which means DHT's binding affinity is 20 times higher than that of RU58841. 2. Unlike testosterone, DHT is a paracrine hormone, so it doesn't need to travel through blood then reach the scalp to bind to the AR. 5ar in the scalp produces its own dht, separate from serum DHT. Thus RU58841, despite having lower affinity, cannot take the advantage of brute concentration force or direct application to scalp. 3. When dht binds to the receptor, it remains attached to it for a much longer amount of time than RU58841, thus activating the receptor and kickstarting the cascade of events that would lead to AGA progression. So we cannot trust RU58841 as a standalone treatment, however, we still need it for another purpose in our stack which I'll explain later. We will take dutasteride in this stack, not finasteride. Why? Because we need to maximize scalp dht reduction and only way to do this is through high dose dutasteride. We have to take 2.5 mg dutasteride daily, which reduces scalp dht by %79. In fact, if you can make a loading phase once per month (40 mg dutasteride) than use 2.5 mg per day in the remaining days of that month, you would probably achieve at least %90 scalp dht reduction but this may be expensive to do regularly.

The thing with DHT is that, despite being a byproduct of testosterone, dht has a unique molecular structure and some of the androgen signaling and cascade of events that happens are completely different than that of DHT. No amount of testosterone can make up for the loss of dht, even the supraphysiological doses. Only dht, and dht derivatives can achieve certain androgen signaling and cascade of events. These generally include; proper prostate function, cognitive function and mood regulation (low inhibition, bravery, mental power to deal with problems, DHT is also a neurosteroid that crosses brain-blood barrier.) orgasmic and ejaculatory function, penile sensation (DHT is crucial for penile nerve function.) Sufficient level of DHT is necessary for these functions to properly work. No amount of testosterone can compensate the lack of sufficient dht in those metrics since DHT and testosterone have different androgen signaling. That's why testosterone does not cause AGA contrary to popular belief. The cascade of events that happens when testosterone and DHT bind to AR in the scalp are different as well. In this step, we have a solution to lack of dht. This is where "mesterolone", a synthetic derivative of dht comes into play. It is also known as Proviron, which is the brand name under it's sold. You may know, rightfully, say that "Are you stupid? Why nuke DHT with dutasteride then replace it again with a synthetic form? What's the point?" The point is, mesterolone is a DHT derivative and when it binds to AR, it leads to same androgen signaling and cascade of events with DHT. However, mesterolone has a much lower binding affinity to AR than DHT. DHT's binding affinity is 2-3 times higher than testosterone, and masterelone's binding affinity is 2 times lower than testosterone despite leading to DHT-induced effects once activated the AR. Plus, DHT is an endogenous hormone, produced by testosterone's 5-a reduction, and DHT is a paracrine hormone, therefore found in high concentration in the tissues. (scalp in this example.) However mesterolone is a synthetic, exogenous hormone, in order for it to reach scalp and hair follicles, it has to travel in blood to scalp. Plus, it has 4 times lower binding affinity than DHT. But once it activated the receptor, it will lead to same effects as DHT. Unlike with DHT, RU58841 becomes useful here with mesterolone. DHT is paracrine but mesterolone is not, so only a tiny amount of it will reach scalp and since RU58841 will be directly applied to scalp, with a brute force due to its high concentration, RU58841 will easily outcompete mesterolone in the scalp thus prevent any possible mesterolone-induced aga progression. At the same time, mesterolone will bind to AR in the penis, prostate and cross brain-blood barrier and fully compensate the lack of dht in the body without inducing aga. From what I've calculated, a daily dose of 25 mg mesterolone (Proviron) is enough for that.
 
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The author proposes a theoretical regimen to treat androgenetic alopecia (AGA) while avoiding sexual, mental, and cognitive side effects often caused by DHT suppression. The stack involves:

  • High-dose oral dutasteride (2.5 mg daily + monthly 40 mg loading) to drastically reduce scalp DHT, the primary cause of AGA.
  • RU58841 (topical) to block androgen receptors in the scalp, preventing synthetic androgens like mesterolone from triggering hair loss.
  • Mesterolone (Proviron, 25 mg daily), a synthetic DHT derivative, used to restore DHT’s beneficial effects in the brain, prostate, and sexual function without causing AGA, due to its lower AR binding affinity and systemic (not paracrine) action.
Key rationale:

  • Scalp DHT must be suppressed systemically.
  • RU58841 is ineffective alone due to DHT’s stronger and longer AR binding.
  • Mesterolone mimics DHT's systemic benefits without fueling hair loss, especially when RU58841 blocks it at the scalp.
In short: Kill DHT systemically with dutasteride, replace its good effects with mesterolone, and prevent mesterolone from hurting hair with RU58841.
 
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Idk what this is but ill bookmark it and come back to check what ppl say:feelshah:
 
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High iq thread :Comfy:
 
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In short: Kill DHT systemically with dutasteride, replace its good effects with mesterolone, and prevent mesterolone from hurting hair with RU58841.
Is that good or bad
 
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Is that good or bad
Yeah, if you're suffering from AA which in laymens terms is balding due to dht sensitivity in your androgen receptors (in the scalp).
It actually seems like a sound theory, would like to hear what others think.
 
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Yeah, if you're suffering from AA which in laymens terms is balding due to dht.
It actually seems like a sound theory, would like to hear what others think.
Me too
Thanks for explaining
 
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This is all assuming low DHT compromises sexual function.
If that was the case, anybody and everybody taking any 5ARi would suffer, but only ~1% do IIRC.
If it was low DHT that did compromise sexual function for the 1% that do suffer from ED or any other issues related to their 5ARi usage, then the median time to recover from the associated side effects should not be as high as 3+ years.

In reality, you probably just need it for puberty and then out of it, it's useless.
I just don't need to take a 5ARi, maybe not ever, so at my age, I'd rather guarantee any sort of growth I have will occur by delaying taking such for a few years, rather than be left guessing whether I had fuel in the tank that I ended up draining needlessly.
 
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Is that good or bad
he says block 5ar to not produce dht by your own but inject synthetic dht that exerts the same effects as dht but has less affinity to the androgen receptors so it is less androgenic, also what causes hair loss is the local dht made in the scalp not the produced in other parts of the body that reaches the hair, just the local dht, so if you inject it will be less detrimental to hair loss since it will take time to reach the hair and not everything will go to the hair.

the question surges: is the local dht produced on the hair more than the one that will reach the hair from injections of proviron?, does proviron actually give less dht to the hair than the produced by the scalp?
 
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What i'm going to write is purely theoretical. I haven't experimented with this entire regimen, however, from a theoretical standpoint, this stack of medications should pinpointly address both androgenetic alopecia and prevent any possible sexual dysfunction and mental&cognitive problem due to 5ar-reductase inhibition.

We all already know the basics of AGA, but I have to begin from scratch to build up to the point I want to make. DHT is the main culprit in AGA. All the other "blood flow" or "calcification" theories of AGA are either psuedo-scientific or just very negligible factors as long as DHT is addressed. They don't make sense on their own. It's the scalp dht that binds to androgen receptors in the hair follicles which causes miniaturization and therefore hair loss, serum dht and dht in other tissues are irrelevant. However, there is no way to effectively lower scalp dht levels without lowering the serum and local production of dht in other 5ar dense tissues, such as skin, prostate and penis. DHT is a paracrine hormone, which means that serum and local concentrations of DHT don't equally correspond. Topical finasteride goes systemic, it's been shown by numerous studies. Topical dutasteride would go systemic as well but the situation is even worse for it since due to the molecular weight of dutasteride, whether it penetrates the scalp skin effectively and works is still a debate topic. So, with the currently available set of drugs, we have to use an oral 5ar inhibitor. Now, you may ask; "What about RU58841?" RU58841 has indeed negligible systemic absorption which does not lead to any physiological effects when used at proper doses (50-75 mg per day). However, from what I've seen in the user anecdotes, RU58841 as a standalone monotherapy fails to treat AGA %99 of the time. There are two reasons for this: 1. RU58841 has %5 of the binding affinity of DHT to androgen receptor, which means DHT's binding affinity is 20 times higher than that of RU58841. 2. Unlike testosterone, DHT is a paracrine hormone, so it doesn't need to travel through blood then reach the scalp to bind to the AR. 5ar in the scalp produces its own dht, separate from serum DHT. Thus RU58841, despite having lower affinity, cannot take the advantage of brute concentration force or direct application to scalp. 3. When dht binds to the receptor, it remains attached to it for a much longer amount of time than RU58841, thus activating the receptor and kickstarting the cascade of events that would lead to AGA progression. So we cannot trust RU58841 as a standalone treatment, however, we still need it for another purpose in our stack which I'll explain later. We will take dutasteride in this stack, not finasteride. Why? Because we need to maximize scalp dht reduction and only way to do this is through high dose dutasteride. We have to take 2.5 mg dutasteride daily, which reduces scalp dht by %79. In fact, if you can make a loading phase once per month (40 mg dutasteride) than use 2.5 mg per day in the remaining days of that month, you would probably achieve at least %90 scalp dht reduction but this may be expensive to do regularly.

The thing with DHT is that, despite being a byproduct of testosterone, dht has a unique molecular structure and some of the androgen signaling and cascade of events that happens are completely different than that of DHT. No amount of testosterone can make up for the loss of dht, even the supraphysiological doses. Only dht, and dht derivatives can achieve certain androgen signaling and cascade of events. These generally include; proper prostate function, cognitive function and mood regulation (low inhibition, bravery, mental power to deal with problems, DHT is also a neurosteroid that crosses brain-blood barrier.) orgasmic and ejaculatory function, penile sensation (DHT is crucial for penile nerve function.) Sufficient level of DHT is necessary for these functions to properly work. No amount of testosterone can compensate the lack of sufficient dht in those metrics since DHT and testosterone have different androgen signaling. That's why testosterone does not cause AGA contrary to popular belief. The cascade of events that happens when testosterone and DHT bind to AR in the scalp are different as well. In this step, we have a solution to lack of dht. This is where "mesterolone", a synthetic derivative of dht comes into play. It is also known as Proviron, which is the brand name under it's sold. You may know, rightfully, say that "Are you stupid? Why nuke DHT with dutasteride then replace it again with a synthetic form? What's the point?" The point is, mesterolone is a DHT derivative and when it binds to AR, it leads to same androgen signaling and cascade of events with DHT. However, mesterolone has a much lower binding affinity to AR than DHT. DHT's binding affinity is 2-3 times higher than testosterone, and masterelone's binding affinity is 2 times lower than testosterone despite leading to DHT-induced effects once activated the AR. Plus, DHT is an endogenous hormone, produced by testosterone's 5-a reduction, and DHT is a paracrine hormone, therefore found in high concentration in the tissues. (scalp in this example.) However mesterolone is a synthetic, exogenous hormone, in order for it to reach scalp and hair follicles, it has to travel in blood to scalp. Plus, it has 4 times lower binding affinity than DHT. But once it activated the receptor, it will lead to same effects as DHT. Unlike with DHT, RU58841 becomes useful here with mesterolone. DHT is paracrine but mesterolone is not, so only a tiny amount of it will reach scalp and since RU58841 will be directly applied to scalp, with a brute force due to its high concentration, RU58841 will easily outcompete mesterolone in the scalp thus prevent any possible mesterolone-induced aga progression. At the same time, mesterolone will bind to AR in the penis, prostate and cross brain-blood barrier and fully compensate the lack of dht in the body without inducing aga. From what I've calculated, a daily dose of 25 mg mesterolone (Proviron) is enough for that.
Tldr:25mg of proviron with RU58841
 
This is all assuming low DHT compromises sexual function.
If that was the case, anybody and everybody taking any 5ARi would suffer, but only ~1% do IIRC.
If it was low DHT that did compromise sexual function for the 1% that do suffer from ED or any other issues related to their 5ARi usage, then the median time to recover from the associated side effects should not be as high as 3+ years.

In reality, you probably just need it for puberty and then out of it, it's useless.
I just don't need to take a 5ARi, maybe not ever, so at my age, I'd rather guarantee any sort of growth I have will occur by delaying taking such for a few years, rather than be left guessing whether I had fuel in the tank that I ended up draining needlessly.
There is a difference between partial deterioration and full dysfunction. Erectile function and libido are primarily testosterone driven. After puberty, with sufficient levels of testosterone and estrogen in ideal range, you wouldn't notice much of a difference in terms of erectile function and libido even with 0 dht in your entire body. However, prostate health (which has some minor influence on sexual function) orgasmic&ejaculatory function, penile nerve function (sexual pleasure depends on this) are driven primarily by DHT, not testosterone. Testosterone may try to compensate to some mediocre extent, but it can never fully compensate those metrics of sexual function. Only DHT or DHT derivatives can fully do it. This is an unfortunate fact. Same applies to neurosteroid properties as well.
 
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What about testosterone supression and testicular atrophy caused by proviron?
 
There is a difference between partial deterioration and full dysfunction. Erectile function and libido are primarily testosterone driven. After puberty, with sufficient levels of testosterone and estrogen in ideal range, you wouldn't notice much of a difference in terms of erectile function and libido even with 0 dht in your entire body. However, prostate health (which has some minor influence on sexual function) orgasmic&ejaculatory function, penile nerve function (sexual pleasure depends on this) are driven primarily by DHT, not testosterone. Testosterone may try to compensate to some mediocre extent, but it can never fully compensate those metrics of sexual function. Only DHT or DHT derivatives can fully do it. This is an unfortunate fact. Same applies to neurosteroid properties as well.
I've noticed that i can't get hard fast, sexual stimulation, pleasure and erection frequency as well as sperm production are all reduced to a great extent when I blocked dht and it's been a year of me using dutasteride with my hair being better before i used it
 
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What about testosterone supression and testicular atrophy caused by proviron?
Supression happens at mega doses, doses beyond 100 mg which is used by bodybuilders. Studies, even at doses of 50-75 mg per day, have shown no detectable suppression of LH or FSH.
 
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Supression happens at mega doses, doses beyond 100 mg which is used by bodybuilders. Studies, even at doses of 50-75 mg per day, have shown no detectable suppression of LH or FSH.
But aren't those doses accumulate over time?
 
I've noticed that i can't get hard fast, sexual stimulation, pleasure and erection frequency as well as sperm production are all reduced to a great extent when I blocked dht and it's been a year of me using dutasteride with my hair being better before i used it
I'm an oldie here, 28 year old. I've been on dutasteride since 23, for 5 years straight. My testosterone level is 900 ng/dL and estradiol in good range. I went from NW2 to NW1 and still holding onto NW1 yet my sexual function has never been the same since beginning dutasteride. Erectile function and libido are completely intact, they are the same, yet orgasm quality, ejaculatory function and penile sensation have worsened very noticeably. My mood regulation also worsened a lot, I can sense it.
 
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I'm an oldie here, 28 year old. I've been on dutasteride since 23, for 5 years straight. My testosterone level is 900 ng/dL and estradiol in good range. I went from NW2 to NW1 and still holding onto NW1 yet my sexual function has never been the same since beginning dutasteride. Erectile function and libido are completely intact, they are the same, yet orgasm quality, ejaculatory function and penile sensation have worsened very noticeably. My mood regulation also worsened a lot, I can sense it.
How did you go to nw1 and how 900ng/dl of test as natty? I've had 1250ng/dl last year when i was 21 i was eating sugars and tons of protein with pushups and taking tons of d3 and zinc and sunbathing but my dht was high too my hair was falling ed
 
I was naturally high dht and very responsive to it. Full facial hair, high body hair and chest hair. I'm Balkanic but it's also very prevalant in Balkan men to be very sensitive to DHT. Going from NW2 to NW1 is not difficult if you respond well to dut and start at the right time. I also use oral minoxidil alongside with dut which helps a lot.
 
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I was naturally high dht and very responsive to it. Full facial hair, high body hair and chest hair. I'm Balkanic but it's also very prevalant in Balkan men to be very sensitive to DHT. Going from NW2 to NW1 is not difficult if you respond well to dut and start at the right time. I also use oral minoxidil alongside with dut which helps a lot.
I think I'm nw2.5 close to 3 but follicles around temples very thin, i used dut but this follicles don't want to regrow, oral minoxidil isn't available where i live anywhete
 
What i'm going to write is purely theoretical. I haven't experimented with this entire regimen, however, from a theoretical standpoint, this stack of medications should pinpointly address both androgenetic alopecia and prevent any possible sexual dysfunction and mental&cognitive problem due to 5ar-reductase inhibition.

We all already know the basics of AGA, but I have to begin from scratch to build up to the point I want to make. DHT is the main culprit in AGA. All the other "blood flow" or "calcification" theories of AGA are either psuedo-scientific or just very negligible factors as long as DHT is addressed. They don't make sense on their own. It's the scalp dht that binds to androgen receptors in the hair follicles which causes miniaturization and therefore hair loss, serum dht and dht in other tissues are irrelevant. However, there is no way to effectively lower scalp dht levels without lowering the serum and local production of dht in other 5ar dense tissues, such as skin, prostate and penis. DHT is a paracrine hormone, which means that serum and local concentrations of DHT don't equally correspond. Topical finasteride goes systemic, it's been shown by numerous studies. Topical dutasteride would go systemic as well but the situation is even worse for it since due to the molecular weight of dutasteride, whether it penetrates the scalp skin effectively and works is still a debate topic. So, with the currently available set of drugs, we have to use an oral 5ar inhibitor. Now, you may ask; "What about RU58841?" RU58841 has indeed negligible systemic absorption which does not lead to any physiological effects when used at proper doses (50-75 mg per day). However, from what I've seen in the user anecdotes, RU58841 as a standalone monotherapy fails to treat AGA %99 of the time. There are two reasons for this: 1. RU58841 has %5 of the binding affinity of DHT to androgen receptor, which means DHT's binding affinity is 20 times higher than that of RU58841. 2. Unlike testosterone, DHT is a paracrine hormone, so it doesn't need to travel through blood then reach the scalp to bind to the AR. 5ar in the scalp produces its own dht, separate from serum DHT. Thus RU58841, despite having lower affinity, cannot take the advantage of brute concentration force or direct application to scalp. 3. When dht binds to the receptor, it remains attached to it for a much longer amount of time than RU58841, thus activating the receptor and kickstarting the cascade of events that would lead to AGA progression. So we cannot trust RU58841 as a standalone treatment, however, we still need it for another purpose in our stack which I'll explain later. We will take dutasteride in this stack, not finasteride. Why? Because we need to maximize scalp dht reduction and only way to do this is through high dose dutasteride. We have to take 2.5 mg dutasteride daily, which reduces scalp dht by %79. In fact, if you can make a loading phase once per month (40 mg dutasteride) than use 2.5 mg per day in the remaining days of that month, you would probably achieve at least %90 scalp dht reduction but this may be expensive to do regularly.

The thing with DHT is that, despite being a byproduct of testosterone, dht has a unique molecular structure and some of the androgen signaling and cascade of events that happens are completely different than that of DHT. No amount of testosterone can make up for the loss of dht, even the supraphysiological doses. Only dht, and dht derivatives can achieve certain androgen signaling and cascade of events. These generally include; proper prostate function, cognitive function and mood regulation (low inhibition, bravery, mental power to deal with problems, DHT is also a neurosteroid that crosses brain-blood barrier.) orgasmic and ejaculatory function, penile sensation (DHT is crucial for penile nerve function.) Sufficient level of DHT is necessary for these functions to properly work. No amount of testosterone can compensate the lack of sufficient dht in those metrics since DHT and testosterone have different androgen signaling. That's why testosterone does not cause AGA contrary to popular belief. The cascade of events that happens when testosterone and DHT bind to AR in the scalp are different as well. In this step, we have a solution to lack of dht. This is where "mesterolone", a synthetic derivative of dht comes into play. It is also known as Proviron, which is the brand name under it's sold. You may know, rightfully, say that "Are you stupid? Why nuke DHT with dutasteride then replace it again with a synthetic form? What's the point?" The point is, mesterolone is a DHT derivative and when it binds to AR, it leads to same androgen signaling and cascade of events with DHT. However, mesterolone has a much lower binding affinity to AR than DHT. DHT's binding affinity is 2-3 times higher than testosterone, and masterelone's binding affinity is 2 times lower than testosterone despite leading to DHT-induced effects once activated the AR. Plus, DHT is an endogenous hormone, produced by testosterone's 5-a reduction, and DHT is a paracrine hormone, therefore found in high concentration in the tissues. (scalp in this example.) However mesterolone is a synthetic, exogenous hormone, in order for it to reach scalp and hair follicles, it has to travel in blood to scalp. Plus, it has 4 times lower binding affinity than DHT. But once it activated the receptor, it will lead to same effects as DHT. Unlike with DHT, RU58841 becomes useful here with mesterolone. DHT is paracrine but mesterolone is not, so only a tiny amount of it will reach scalp and since RU58841 will be directly applied to scalp, with a brute force due to its high concentration, RU58841 will easily outcompete mesterolone in the scalp thus prevent any possible mesterolone-induced aga progression. At the same time, mesterolone will bind to AR in the penis, prostate and cross brain-blood barrier and fully compensate the lack of dht in the body without inducing aga. From what I've calculated, a daily dose of 25 mg mesterolone (Proviron) is enough for that.
I don't think this method works as dutasteride blocks dht systemically and proviron goes systemic, also I think Ru58841 might actually be better with proviron alone
 
I was naturally high dht and very responsive to it. Full facial hair, high body hair and chest hair. I'm Balkanic but it's also very prevalant in Balkan men to be very sensitive to DHT. Going from NW2 to NW1 is not difficult if you respond well to dut and start at the right time. I also use oral minoxidil alongside with dut which helps a lot.
U notice water retention with minoxidil?
 
U notice water retention with minoxidil?
I've been on 10 mg oral minoxidil. Most say that this is a super high dose but I've had routine control to my cardiologist since then and there is a study showing that even 10 mg oral minoxidil doesn't do anything bad for your heart if your are normotensive (have normal blood pressure) Water retention thing is accumulative. I run a course of furosemide 80 mg for 5 days, once every 3 month. I accumulate very little water retention but I reset it every 3 months so there is never a huge amount of fluid retention in my body. I have no sides from furosemide.
 
I don't think this method works as dutasteride blocks dht systemically and proviron goes systemic, also I think Ru58841 might actually be better with proviron alone
Unfortunately, RU58841 is quite unsuccessful when it comes to blocking dht from binding to AR due to the reasons I wrote in my first post. 1. Binding affinity is 20 times lower than DHT. 2. Direct application doesn't give RU a time and proximity advantage since DHT is paracrine and locally produced in the scalp by 5ar enzyme there. 3. DHT not only has a higher binding affinity but also remains bound to AR for a really long amount of time, long enough to lead to cascade of events that eventually results in hair loss. But for mesterolone things are different. It has to reach to the follicule through blood, RU58841 has time and proximity advantage due to direct application. The brute force of RU58841 quantity can matter more here, unlike in the case of DHT. Both due to time and proximity advantage, plus binding affinity. RU's binding affinity is 20 times lower than DHT's, but 4 times lower than mesterolone's, whcih makes outcompeting mesterolone via outnumbering possible.
 
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