waiting 3 years until she was 9 and then consummating isn't better. it's still a 9 year old.
also translations fail to provide complete coherence of quranic text in arabic
"transverse view" isn't in the quran. you added that. it says between backbone and ribs. if god meant prostate, he would've said it. vague poetry isn't a miracle
simplification doesn't mean wrong. sperm comes from testes, not between backbone and ribs.
The criteria for consummation would be hitting puberty, so we can deduce it as being such stop making it seem an impossibility for that to have happened
You're quoting a translation, not the Quran. Classical scholars gave over 10 interpretations of 'sulb' and 'tara'ib' including loins and pelvic bones. So when you say 'it means backbone,' you're choosing the interpretation that fits your argument
religion is a manmade tool to control the masses.
Puberty isn't mentioned in the hadith that's an assumption. And even if she did hit puberty, that doesn't make it morally right.
no? you're the one who brought this up, to me an arab person I'd assume you're talking about the verse which i know in my own language and conversating my ideas in a different language. Basically adding attributes to words and assuming the total opposite to it
Islamic rulings abolish your claim where even if the two people married were children they won't have sex until puberty
you're arab. tell me what "sulb" and "tara'ib" mean. if it's clear, why do scholars have 10 interpretations?
islamic rulings say no sex until puberty. hadith says consummated at 9. so either she hit puberty at 9 or the ruling was broken.Islamic rulings abolish your claim where even if the two people married were children they won't have sex until puberty
arabic contains many meanings for the same word, and scholars would study the text and come to a conclusion after study doesn't change the point of the quran is to establish monotheism and prophethood. Arguing about why words such as this and that is pointless the context known to the pre-islamic arabs is to convince and challenge them despite their fluency pretending this is a scientific error or anything wouldn't be accurate
we can safely assume the ruling was applied and puberty is biological maturity
"many meanings" = unclear. if god wanted to be clear, he would've been.
"biological maturity" at 9 isn't a thing. puberty ≠ fully mature. a 9 year old's body isn't ready for pregnancy. that's basic medicine.
clear to the pagan arabs at the time, meaning it was clear and was proven to be clear. No one made this point as something to deny the qurans authenticity
she didn't get pregnant though, is every sexual encounter gonna lead to pregnancy?
clear to pagan Arabs means they understood backbone and ribs. not modern reinterpretations. that literal meaning is wrong. so either the quran is wrong or the arabs misunderstood their own language. which is it?
she didn't get pregnant" doesn't make it okay JFL. a 9 year old's body isn't ready for sex. and "we can safely assume" is just a guess. no evidence she hit puberty.
neither, you're putting uneeded criteria and applying the very same arguments anti-islamic apologetics use, refutations are plentiful
"anti-islamic" is just a buzzword to dismiss arguments lol. give me a real refutation. explain how backbone and ribs means prostate in 7th century arabic. expecting god's book to be scientifically accurate isn't "uneeded criteria." if he created the body, he should know where sperm comes from
no evidence she didn't reach puberty. In all society bulugh (maturation/puberty) meant the complete transition of a childs body into an adult one, regardless wether development is still ongoing or not.
"no evidence she didn't" isn't an argument. you're making the claim, you prove it. "bulugh = complete transition" isn't true, puberty is a process, not an instant switch. a 9 year old isn't fully developed even if she started. you're redefining words
but that's where you bring those arguments from, you didn't read the quran or find things on your own you're so unoriginal you're bringing up faulty claims and making it a puzzle for me to solve. We're gonna keep rambling and jumping from point to point not reaching anything of value. You don't want to be convinced by my perspective sure, I'm debating with very limited knowledge I've gained from when I was 12 in 2021 btw, same old arguments nothing changed.
220 fucking replies, fucking hell
war i fell into old habits
so you're using 12 year old 2021 arguments and calling ME unoriginal? jfl
just because teens get pregnant doesn't mean their bodies are ready. it's still high risk. and we're talking about a prophet, not random teens. he's supposed to be an example, you're deflecting bud.oh? how about teens who get pregnant being promiscious
are they biologically exempt???
no because i did the research back then and engaged in debates until i fell offtrack eventually doesn't make my arguments any worse than yours
ok? but does the body know? if anything we can make a claim now that God prevented aisha from getting pregnant because he knew the complications now what?
research at 12 that you haven't updated isn't impressive. I'm using logic and biology. you're using childhood memories. you haven't refuted anything. explain the backbone verse. explain free will. explain the sun in muddy spring. you can't . "I did research" isn't a refutation
dnr mongoloid sheep
"god prevented pregnancy" so he was cool with a 9 year old having sex but just protected her from pregnancy? that's not a defense. and yes the body knows. that's literally why it's high risk. you're just making stuff up now
you haven't presented anything of value, while i try my best you jump from point to point to try and seem smarter literally just taking anything you disagree with as not being a refutation
I've been consistent. youre the one who deflected. I gave specific verses. you gave "god prevented pregnancy" who's not presenting value? if my arguments are weak, refute them. explain the backbone verse. explain the sun in muddy spring. explain free will.
knows how? high risk because of complications sometimes not always there's a full picture, and after I made that point up it's just mimicing how you make assumptions and go with it as something irrefutable. I can also say my proclaimation is irrefutable and by applying YOUR methodology you can't refute me.
Literally nothing wrong with marrying children, doesnt even mean you have to fuck them btwright so that means that all these claims are also very true:
“Narrated By Jabir bin 'Abdullah : When I got married, Allah's Apostle said to me, "What type of lady have you married?" I replied, "I have married a matron' He said, "Why, don't you have a liking for the virgins and for fondling them?" Jabir also said: Allah's Apostle said,
"Why didn't you marry a young girl so that you might play with her and she with you?'”
Sahih al-Bukhari 230:
Narrated Sulaiman bin Yasar:
"I asked `Aisha about the clothes soiled with semen. She replied, 'I used to wash it off the clothes of Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) and he would go for the prayer while water spots were still visible.'"
and ofc the infamous 4:34:Men are the caretakers of women, as Men have been provisioned by Allah over Women and tasking men to provide from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in the husband's absence what Allah would have them guard. As for those women from whom you fear ill-conduct—admonish them first, then herd them to separate beds, and finally discipline them. But if they obey you, then seek no means against them. Surely Allah is Ever Exalted, All-Great."
god dude jfl at retarded muslims pigs, you truly are the lowest form of human to exist, for you shall SUCK on my DICK you FILTHY SUBHUMAN PIECE OF SHIT!
aha, so when i made that point to poke fun at you, you decide to remove all the points i presented previously nice cherry-picking
I can make it up too" is not not a refutation. that's admitting you have no answer. I'm using text and biology. you're using ONE obsolete and false book. "high risk sometimes not always" still way higher risk than adult. that's basic knowledge
you admitted you made up the "god prevented pregnancy" point to mock me, basically admitting you have no real evidence
"pre-order" youre fucking comparing a child to a product. that's grooming. "doesn't mean you have to fuck them" but he did at 9.
No you're not, you're spamming the same bullshit some guy on the internet said to say hey guys look! I refuted islam, obviously to you anything has to be questioned but the ideas you're reiterating where does the quran say that the backbone and sperm have anything to do with actual human anatomy right now, and isn't describing life force itself? Why are we analyzing religious text through a lens that is so narrow, I clearly stated Transverse section of the human male body shows the seminal vesicles and the backbones aligned in the centre of the human body so therefore I did present an answer and you ignored it, meaning you are in the wrong
transverse section isn't in the quran. you added that. it says between backbone and ribs. not aligned. ohh so life force now.. so now it's metaphor? can't have it both ways. you added words to make it fit. I didn't ignore it. I said it's not there.
