I never thought I’d get to this point but

[whiteissuperior]

I am now heavily considering modified lefort 3, I used to scoff at the idea anyone would get anything more than bimsx, but now I realize due to my severe midface hypoplasia and downward growth, MSE+ MLF3 + Trimax might be the only way for me to get to a HTN face

Congrats

The aspiness has taken over.

Thoughts?

@AscendingHero @Octillionaire @Moggie @smvmaxxertilllate @Erik-Jón

 

[thereallegend]

I've never heard of trimax.

Also you could pair MSDO with MSE to expand the mandible along with the maxilla.

 

[Moggie]

I've never heard of trimax.

he made it up

Also you could pair MSDO with MSE to expand the mandible along with the maxilla.

ye

 

[ChristianChad]

I am now heavily considering modified lefort 3, I used to scoff at the idea anyone would get anything more than bimsx, but now I realize due to my severe midface hypoplasia and downward growth, MSE+ MLF3 + Trimax might be the only way for me to get to a HTN face

Congrats

The aspiness has taken over.

Thoughts?

@AscendingHero @Octillionaire @Moggie @smvmaxxertilllate @Erik-Jón

I've never heard of trimax.

Also you could pair MSDO with MSE to expand the mandible along with the maxilla.

he made it up

ye

MSE doesn't work well for people above 15

 

[Moggie]

Before:

After:

LeFort I + LeFort III + BSSO

 

[Moggie]

MSE doesn't work well for people above 15

so just expand the dental arch then with traditional orthodontic appliances?

 

[thereallegend]

Before:

View attachment 1893831

After:

View attachment 1893832

LeFort I + LeFort III + BSSO

Where do you find these?

 

[Moggie]

Where do you find these?

just looked it up on google images and found the pics, linked me to a jawsurgery forum post with the added info

 

[thereallegend]

so just expand the dental arch then with traditional orthodontic appliances?

He's full of shit. MSE works especially well at all ages. You just gotta control the asymmetry.

 

[whiteissuperior]

so just expand the dental arch then with traditional orthodontic appliances?

Jfl it works fine just get corticotomy

 

[whiteissuperior]

Where do you find these?

Late maxfac Hugo Obswerger

Father of all maxfacs

 

[Moggie]

Jfl it works fine just get corticotomy

is it safe to remove bone like that? Reminder most people here have a hissy fit at the idea of removing wisdom teeth

 

[whiteissuperior]

is it safe to remove bone like that? Reminder most people here have a hissy fit at the idea of removing wisdom teeth

All it is is them drilling a few holes into your suture maybe it’s called cortipuncture

 

[Moggie]

All it is is them drilling a few holes into your suture maybe it’s called cortipuncture

Found this on google images, article is in Chinese

 

[ChristianChad]

so just expand the dental arch then with traditional orthodontic appliances?

You can't expand your "dental arch" above 13 without damaging your teeth.
You could either achieve some minor expansion via alevolar expansion with alevolar corticomy/accelerated Orthodontics/Wilckodontics, or bigger expansion with skeletal/alevolar expansion or majority skeletal expansion.

Former (s/a exp.) has a chance to be achieved above 18 if done with the right Surgical Assist techniques combined with MSE/MARPE, but even with Surgical Assist MSE is just extremely unreliable in male patients older then 15 years old and even if it does successfully split the sutures to allow skeletal expansion it has a large chance to cause assymtries.

It can also be achieved with traditional full SARPE osteomies + expander preferably MARPE instead of RPE.

Latter (majority ske. exp.) can be achieved with EASE procedure, SARPE with TPD device (AFAIK)

 

[Deleted member 18879]

Would I benefit from a modified LF3? I am just so narrow and down-grown, even my front teeth are fucking crowded. ENRAGING. I have an underbite that is so hypoplasic that my upper jaw is completely consumed by my lower in terms of width, both vertically and horizontally.

 

[ChristianChad]

Before:

View attachment 1893831

After:

View attachment 1893832

LeFort I + LeFort III + BSSO

Sadly they did great job with MLF3 but were conservative with LF1. Did the BSSO shorten her Mandible?

 

[ChristianChad]

View attachment 1893857
Would I benefit from a modified LF3? I am just so narrow and down-grown, even my front teeth are fucking crowded. ENRAGING. I have an underbite that is so hypoplasic that my upper jaw is completely consumed by my lower in terms of width, both vertically and horizontally.

How old are u
U need SARPE + LF1 you were told this already you nigger

 

[Deleted member 18879]

How old are u
U need SARPE + LF1 you were told this already you nigger

What about modified LF3? i have negative canthal tilt and my face looks flat and lacking definition I am 22 oldcel

This is a modified lefort 3 before n after:

 

[ChristianChad]

Found this on google images, article is in Chinese

Link? :0

 

[whiteissuperior]

View attachment 1893857
Would I benefit from a modified LF3? I am just so narrow and down-grown, even my front teeth are fucking crowded. ENRAGING. I have an underbite that is so hypoplasic that my upper jaw is completely consumed by my lower in terms of width, both vertically and horizontally.

tbh u have the goodd kind of underbite. Your upper maxilla is fine but could use use a Lefort 1 for sure. Many class 3 and class 3 esque ppl like me and @tyronelite have a retruded LF3 area which is much harder to fix, near impossible. But you very clearly have cheekbones

 

[whiteissuperior]

Sadly they did great job with MLF3 but were conservative with LF1. Did the BSSO shorten her Mandible?

no it onyl lovoks shorter cuz it was probably rotated with CCW and if not it just looks smaller cuz maxilla was moved forward so it justl ooks smaller relatively

also im not even sure if it was modified i think that was a full LF3

 

[ChristianChad]

He's full of shit. MSE works especially well at all ages. You just gotta control the asymmetry.

You have female patients in mind, which can expand with MSE until their 60s. Males stop being able to reliably split skeletal sutures (Midpalatal suture, pterygomaxillary sutures, maxilla) with MSE at around 15. From then even Surgically Assisted MSE can fail. And you have people having multiple failed MSEs and eventually doing traditional SARPE.

 

[Moggie]

Link? :0

I am dumb it was Japanese

すきっ歯（空隙歯列）の歯並び矯正治療| 東京都港区麻布十番のUC矯正歯科

矯正歯科治療は公的医療保険適用外の自費（自由）診療となります。 すきっ歯（空隙歯列）の症状について すきっ歯は歯科での専門用語で「空隙歯列（くうげきしれつ）」と言います。症状としては食べ物が挟まりやすいことや歯の動揺などありますが、患者様の最も多い訴えとしては審美障害が挙げられます。また空隙歯列はその経過によって歯周病

www.uc-ortho.com

 

[whiteissuperior]

You have female patients in mind, which can expand with MSE until their 60s. Males stop being able to reliably split skeletal sutures (Midpalatal suture, pterygomaxillary sutures, maxilla) with MSE at around 15. From then even Surgically Assisted MSE can fail

you can expend 75% of the time in men according to orthos I've consulted

The risk is mostly high for 25+.

You're right tho about the asymmetry, its not uncommon.

Much of the time ppl get MSE > bimax tho, so bimax offsets the asymmetry.

But tbh, MSE should work for you as a man after at most 2 appliances with cortipuncture

 

[whiteissuperior]

I've never heard of trimax.

Also you could pair MSDO with MSE to expand the mandible along with the maxilla.

trimax = bimax + genio

 

[ChristianChad]

I am dumb it was Japanese

すきっ歯（空隙歯列）の歯並び矯正治療| 東京都港区麻布十番のUC矯正歯科

矯正歯科治療は公的医療保険適用外の自費（自由）診療となります。 すきっ歯（空隙歯列）の症状について すきっ歯は歯科での専門用語で「空隙歯列（くうげきしれつ）」と言います。症状としては食べ物が挟まりやすいことや歯の動揺などありますが、患者様の最も多い訴えとしては審美障害が挙げられます。また空隙歯列はその経過によって歯周病

www.uc-ortho.com

Nigga this isn't about corticopuncture

 

[Moggie]

Nigga this isn't about corticopuncture

you wanted the source for the pic, I gave it to you

whats it about then

 

[whiteissuperior]

What about modified LF3? i have negative canthal tilt and my face looks flat and lacking definition I am 22 oldcel

This is a modified lefort 3 before n after:

ok im nowehere near that deformed.

You could eat soup out of that midface holy shit

I look slightly better than his after

How was his eye area still decent with that crushed maxilla tho?

 

[Deleted member 18879]

ok im nowehere near that deformed.

You could eat soup out of that midface holy shit

I look slightly better than his after

How was his eye area still decent with that crushed maxilla tho?

I believe eye area is 90% orbital rotation (the position and shape of the skull), lateral orbitals and soft tissue. my cheekbones are retardedly wide and I have NCT and shit eye area due to narrow skull and downgrowth

 

[Deleted member 20064]

Just get lefort 1 and midface implant for remaining area.

 

[whiteissuperior]

I believe eye area is 90% orbital rotation (the position and shape of the skull), lateral orbitals and soft tissue. my cheekbones are retardedly wide and I have NCT and shit eye area

brootallll

I have NCT and no under eye support but a very long PFL, downturned medial canthus, but no undereye support

this unironically made me realize I dont need MLF3 I'll be fine with implants. Im nowhere near that sunken in.

MSE + bimax + custom midface implants seems like the move

Wanna see my pics?

 

[Deleted member 20064]

brootallll

I have NCT and no under eye support but a very long PFL, downturned medial canthus, but no undereye support

this unironically made me realize I dont need MLF3 I'll be fine with implants. Im nowhere near that sunken in.

MSE + bimax + custom midface implants seems like the move

Wanna see my pics?

Just make sure is PEEK as silicon is retarded.

 

[StuffedFrog]

yes you never thought that you would think about doing something jfl at looksmaxers

 

[whiteissuperior]

Just make sure is PEEK as silicon is retarded.

tbh im not blackpilled on implants yet. Explain. Thinking about going to Pagnoni

 

[Deleted member 18879]

brootallll

I have NCT and no under eye support but a very long PFL, downturned medial canthus, but no undereye support

this unironically made me realize I dont need MLF3 I'll be fine with implants. Im nowhere near that sunken in.

MSE + bimax + custom midface implants seems like the move

Wanna see my pics?

no my bro, seeing pics of users is kinda suifuel when youre as subhuman as me. but yeah, if u havent got an underbite you definitely dont need a MLF3, probably just paranasal and orbital implants. nothing can really correct NCT from what i've seen, but increasing PFL and reducing overall eye exposure is a good way to mask the problem

 

[ChristianChad]

But tbh, MSE should work for you as a man after at most 2 appliances with cortipuncture

That's too unpredictable and unreliable. And even if it works and you expand it will likely be assymtrical.
It's just a shit treatment tbh, mostly works for females and rarely works for males, the chance of assymtries is too great. In boys it's a device for sub-14 year olds, anything older and if you go sensibly about it you'll end up trying to make up for such a bad design with Surgical Assist and types of shit, and at that point you should just get SARPE when you are 21+, because biggest point of resistance whenever you do expansion is the Pterygomaxillary suture and Surgical Assist for MSE rarely address it and only addresses Midpalatal suture, and if you address Pte... might aswell just go with SARPE which detaches your lower maxilla from your skull.

this my current view on things at least. Personally I'm 17 and I just don't want to run the risk of developing assymtries and having assymtrical skeletal expansion.

 

[ChristianChad]

you wanted the source for the pic, I gave it to you

whats it about then

Okay, you are right.
About gap between front teeth and general dentistry

 

[whiteissuperior]

no my bro, seeing pics of users is kinda suifuel when youre as subhuman as me. but yeah, if u havent got an underbite you definitely dont need a MLF3, probably just paranasal and orbital implants. nothing can really correct NCT from what i've seen, but increasing PFL and reducing overall eye exposure is a good way to mask the problem

i have skeletal class 3 and I had braces for underbite, and I am still very downward grown, many users here have said my bone structure is deformed. I have no bone in my midface and look like I have fat cheeks even at low bf (like john anthony lifestyle). I also look 15 and ppl assume my teenage brothers are older than me. Trust me Im subhuman. 3 PSL probably.

Also im pretty sure NCT can be reduced, no? Canthoplasty and Taban work wonders

 

[whiteissuperior]

That's too unpredictable and unreliable. And even if it works and you expand it will likely be assymtrical.
It's just a shit treatment tbh, mostly works for females and rarely works for males, the chance of assymtries is too great. In boys it's a device for sub-14 year olds, anything older and if you go sensibly about it you'll end up trying to make up for such a bad design with Surgical Assist and types of shit, and at that point you should just get SARPE when you are 21+, because biggest point of resistance whenever you do expansion is the Pterygomaxillary suture and Surgical Assist for MSE rarely address it and only addresses Midpalatal suture, and if you address Pte... might aswell just go with SARPE which detaches your lower maxilla from your skull.

this my current view on things at least. Personally I'm 17 and I just don't want to run the risk of developing assymtries and having assymtrical skeletal expansion.

thats why I said just get bimax after. If you dont have a maloclussion i dont see why you'd get MSE in the first place.

 

[MakinMogReturns]

I am now heavily considering modified lefort 3, I used to scoff at the idea anyone would get anything more than bimsx, but now I realize due to my severe midface hypoplasia and downward growth, MSE+ MLF3 + Trimax might be the only way for me to get to a HTN face

Congrats

The aspiness has taken over.

Thoughts?

@AscendingHero @Octillionaire @Moggie @smvmaxxertilllate @Erik-Jón

yikes

 

[whiteissuperior]

yikes

dont yikes me you 16 yr old ass nigga not everyone can be pretty boy tyrone lite some of us are deformed african villagers

 

[MakinMogReturns]

dont yikes me you 16 yr old ass nigga not everyone can be pretty boy tyrone lite some of us are deformed african villagers

if ur white and mtn and 6 foot why get surgery u prolly already smv mog me do u fit that criteria?

 

[ChristianChad]

just get bimax

Brb im gonna be getting 40k for Bimax

you dont have a maloclussion i dont see why you'd get MSE in the first place.

To fix narrow upper maxilla.
How is malocclusion related to this? Unless your teeth are in an unusual position because of a narrow palate which causes a bad bite tbh I dont understand how widening jaws (fixing a transverse issue) would help malocclusion (issue on the sagittal plane).

 

[whiteissuperior]

if ur white and mtn and 6 foot why get surgery u prolly already smv mog me do u fit that criteria?

He thinks Im white
Is this a win for BBCels? @fogdart @Octillionaire

no habibi I am LTN indian

 

[MakinMogReturns]

He thinks Im white
Is this a win for BBCels? @fogdart @Octillionaire

no habibi I am LTN indian

fuck well are u at least tall?

 

[whiteissuperior]

Brb im gonna be getting 40k for Bimax

To fix narrow upper maxilla.
How is malocclusion related to this? Unless your teeth are in an unusual position because of a narrow palate which causes a bad bite tbh I dont understand how widening jaws (fixing a transverse issue) would help malocclusion (issue on the sagittal plane).

most ppl with excessively narrow palates have malocclusion (like me). Its not that common for someone to have a 6 tooth smile without overbite or underbite
>just get bimax
insurance will pay if u have malocclusion

 

[whiteissuperior]

fuck well are u at least tall?

yes

 

[whiteissuperior]

yikes

jk tho I am LTN BBC 6'2-6'3

big frame.

Only flaw is face

 

[MakinMogReturns]

He thinks Im white
Is this a win for BBCels? @fogdart @Octillionaire

no habibi I am LTN indian

honestly arrange marriage max is better

and betabux aka hookers and exotic females

or just find a low tier Indian female for a ltr if ur in India it shouldn't be that hard