Implants vs Osteotomy

[SubhumanityForce]

I am trying to understand why some people here say that implants suck.
Lets say you are missing 5 or 6mm of anterior projection on your infraorbitals.
You put an implant (which is not 2d, it has volume) to push the skin and muscles (if i understand, it is placed below the muscles, right?) 5 or 6mm forwards?
How that would be any different than having an actual bone there?
Same goes for your zygomatic arch or the zygomatic process of the maxilla.
I understand the fear for silicon implants, i am talking about medpor/peek.

Thoughts?
@RealSurgerymax @thecel @Amnesia @Salludon @Michelangelo962 @sub5inchcel @Chinlet Ascension @Artemide @Artemis
When to get implants vs osteotomy?

pretty straightforward to me.
Get implants when the osteotomy needed for your case, is impossible (like lefort 2 or 3)
also, ZSO advances the lower part of zygos so unless you have opry tier position of your zygos, its shit.
So its IMPLANTS or acceptance for you.
Unless you get someone to do lefort 2 on you, your upper midface will only advance with custom infra-malar implants (anterior projection 5mm+)
For narrow jaw, people cope with chin wing which is unstable and might fuck your asymmetry more (unless you have a symmetrical narrow jaw etc)
for gonial angle some people mentioned gonioplasty (ramus widening surgically) but i haven't seen many results and it's still questionable.
If you dont wanna way a decade to see if it becomes popular, wraparound or angle implants is your way, or just ACCEPT and rot.
I usually see comments like " IMPLANTS ARE SHIT"

"osteotomy or die"
"you will look like a bogdanov" ( this one is BS btw, bogdanovs were just plain stupid to ask for 1cm+ advancement, when in reality , all you need is just A FEW mms and a good eye for aesthetics)
unless you can headbang your entire skull beyond repair and qualify for LF3 or LF2 ( and i would kill you have an lf2 tbh, it would make me a chadlite instantly, i need my nose to be forward projected, nasion area as well), research on IMPLANTS or ACCEPT or ROT.

 

[lasnt]

Probably tagged only two user who actually "experts" in craniomaxillofacial

but yeah
Im wondering this also when you should get implants and when you should get osteotomy

 

[SubhumanityForce]

Probably tagged only two user who actually "experts" in craniomaxillofacial

but yeah
Im wondering this also when you should get implants and when you should get osteotomy

pretty straightforward for me.
Get implants when the osteotomy needed for your case, is impossible (like lefort 2 or 3)
also, ZSO advances the lower part of zygos so unless you have opry tier position of your zygos, its shit.
So its IMPLANTS or acceptance for you.
Unless you get someone to do lefort 2 on you, your upper midface will only advance with custom infra-malar implants (anterior projection 5mm+)
For narrow jaw, people cope with chin wing which is unstable and might fuck your asymmetry more (unless you have a symmetrical narrow jaw etc)
for gonial angle some people mentioned gonioplasty (ramus widening surgically) but i haven't seen many results and it's still questionable.
If you dont wanna way a decade to see if it becomes popular, wraparound or angle implants is your way, or just ACCEPT and rot.
I usually see comments like " IMPLANTS ARE SHIT"

"osteotomy or die"
"you will look like a bogdanov" ( this one is BS btw, bogdanovs were just plain stupid to ask for 1cm+ advancement, when in reality , all you need is just A FEW mms and a good eye for aesthetics)
unless you can headbang your entire skull beyond repair and qualify for LF3 or LF2 ( and i would kill you have an lf2 tbh, it would make me a chadlite instantly, i need my nose to be forward projected, nasion area as well), research on IMPLANTS or ACCEPT or ROT.

 

[lasnt]

pretty straightforward for me.
Get implants when the osteotomy needed for your case, is impossible (like lefort 2 or 3)
also, ZSO advances the lower part of zygos so unless you have opry tier position of your zygos, its shit.
So its IMPLANTS or acceptance for you.
Unless you get someone to do lefort 2 on you, your upper midface will only advance with custom infra-malar implants (anterior projection 5mm+)
For narrow jaw, people cope with chin wing which is unstable and might fuck your asymmetry more (unless you have a symmetrical narrow jaw etc)
for gonial angle some people mentioned gonioplasty (ramus widening surgically) but i haven't seen many results and it's still questionable.
If you dont wanna way a decade to see if it becomes popular, wraparound or angle implants is your way, or just ACCEPT and rot.
I usually see comments like " IMPLANTS ARE SHIT"

"osteotomy or die"
"you will look like a bogdanov" ( this one is BS btw, bogdanovs were just plain stupid to ask for 1cm+ advancement, when in reality , all you need is just A FEW mms and a good eye for aesthetics)
unless you can headbang your entire skull beyond repair and qualify for LF3 or LF2 ( and i would kill you have an lf2 tbh, it would make me a chadlite instantly, i need my nose to be forward projected, nasion area as well), research on IMPLANTS or ACCEPT or ROT.

Farthest i would go with osteotomy is BI-Max and genioplasty everything else is implants

 

[Chinlet Ascension]

I am trying to understand why some people here say that implants suck.

People here tend to have a very black-and-white view of things. They see results that don't instantly transform people from subhumans into male models and they think it's worthless, because they are shut-ins who think that only MM-quality men have any chance with women.

Implants could look great, or terrible. So can jaw surgery. So can fillers--but fillers have the disadvantage of slowly deteriorating over time, so even if they look great to begin with, they will often look terrible later on.

Implants and osteotomies do different things. Plan accordingly.

 

[RealSurgerymax]

- They have different effects
- Both can look great or look horrible
- Whether it’s a success or failure starts with proper planning and the design, then the execution. The surgeon could execute the plan and place the implants perfectly but it will never look good if the plan or design was shit to begin with
- Also visa versa. A shitty/cheap/lazy surgeon could ruin a great plan/design by performing it inaccurately / misplacing the implants and this is more common than you think
- Implants have a bad reputation because most (almost every one by any American surgeon) are designed in a couple design sessions with a time limit. This is why with these big companies you are just hoping to get lucky with your result. Contrary to what you probably believe the surgeon never literally designs the implant himself, it’s just designed under his direction

 

[Oxygen]

- They have different effects
- Both can look great or look horrible
- Whether it’s a success or failure starts with proper planning and the design, then the execution. The surgeon could execute the plan and place the implants perfectly but it will never look good if the plan or design was shit to begin with
- Also visa versa. A shitty/cheap/lazy surgeon could ruin a great plan/design by performing it inaccurately / misplacing the implants and this is more common than you think
- Implants have a bad reputation because most (almost every one by any American surgeon) are designed in a couple design sessions with a time limit. This is why with these big companies you are just hoping to get lucky with your result. Contrary to what you probably believe the surgeon never literally designs the implant himself, it’s just designed under his direction

What are the different effects of each option though? Like for example should someone who's slightly recessed get osteotomy or implants to improve forward growth and why? Assuming no medical reasons

 

[Deleted member 21403]

- They have different effects
- Both can look great or look horrible
- Whether it’s a success or failure starts with proper planning and the design, then the execution. The surgeon could execute the plan and place the implants perfectly but it will never look good if the plan or design was shit to begin with
- Also visa versa. A shitty/cheap/lazy surgeon could ruin a great plan/design by performing it inaccurately / misplacing the implants and this is more common than you think
- Implants have a bad reputation because most (almost every one by any American surgeon) are designed in a couple design sessions with a time limit. This is why with these big companies you are just hoping to get lucky with your result. Contrary to what you probably believe the surgeon never literally designs the implant himself, it’s just designed under his direction

whats your opinion on ZSO, for people that might decide againsts implants.

 

[SubhumanityForce]

- They have different effects
- Both can look great or look horrible
- Whether it’s a success or failure starts with proper planning and the design, then the execution. The surgeon could execute the plan and place the implants perfectly but it will never look good if the plan or design was shit to begin with
- Also visa versa. A shitty/cheap/lazy surgeon could ruin a great plan/design by performing it inaccurately / misplacing the implants and this is more common than you think
- Implants have a bad reputation because most (almost every one by any American surgeon) are designed in a couple design sessions with a time limit. This is why with these big companies you are just hoping to get lucky with your result. Contrary to what you probably believe the surgeon never literally designs the implant himself, it’s just designed under his direction

Thank you for the reply. Would you think that any person here should try to guide the surgeon or to even try to design the implants themselves? Would that be even possible with any kind of software or something?

 

[WanderingBurro]

Osteotomies mog but they're usually way more expensive and often a complete pipedream in some areas of the face. Osteotomies for the lower third mog implants because an osteotomy of the upper and lower jaw in the form of bimax will advance a variety things in your lower third for a more harmonious result (such as one's mouth or nasal base) whilst even the most extreme of jaw implants wont really augment anything more than your chin and gonions so one's recessed mouth might look comical for it being left behind

An osteotomy on the midface is usually only saved for people with deformities so it's better to opt for an implant. There aren't as many bones that would need augmenting there so a simple implant for one's malar region or infraorbitals can often suffice and are way safer and more obtainable than the meme surgery that is a Lefort III

Chin implants are okay but they still leave some recessed bone behind the chin implant. Genioplatsies usually look cleaner and sharper for both augmenting the bone mass without leaving anything behind

I myself am saving up for midface implants though now I'm debating if I should go with a genioplasty instead to pair with it instead of chin implant

 

[Wallenberg]

Osteotomies mog but they're usually way more expensive and often a complete pipedream in some areas of the face. Osteotomies for the lower third mog implants because an osteotomy of the upper and lower jaw in the form of bimax will advance a variety things in your lower third for a more harmonious result (such as one's mouth or nasal base) whilst even the most extreme of jaw implants wont really augment anything more than your chin and gonions so one's recessed mouth might look comical for it being left behind

Everyone isn't recessed tho.

 

[SubhumanityForce]

Osteotomies mog but they're usually way more expensive and often a complete pipedream in some areas of the face. Osteotomies for the lower third mog implants because an osteotomy of the upper and lower jaw in the form of bimax will advance a variety things in your lower third for a more harmonious result (such as one's mouth or nasal base) whilst even the most extreme of jaw implants wont really augment anything more than your chin and gonions so one's recessed mouth might look comical for it being left behind

An osteotomy on the midface is usually only saved for people with deformities so it's better to opt for an implant. There aren't as many bones that would need augmenting there so a simple implant for one's malar region or infraorbitals can often suffice and are way safer and more obtainable than the meme surgery that is a Lefort III

Chin implants are okay but they still leave some recessed bone behind the chin implant. Genioplatsies usually look cleaner and sharper for both augmenting the bone mass without leaving anything behind

I myself am saving up for midface implants though now I'm debating if I should go with a genioplasty instead to pair with it instead of chin implant

Precisely! Could have not said it better. My exact conclusions during the last months, and after almost 2 years of being here and researching in general.
I know i would drastically improve from lf2 because my nasion is slighly recessed (definitely not asian level) and i have a very negative orbital vector.. (i would definitely need 5mm of infra-malar anterior projetion, if not more..)midface implants are a must for me before trying lower eyelid retraction and not look disgusting.

 

[SubhumanityForce]

upper midface recession is the worst.
lower midface and jaw can be fixed with bimax, , upper midface is tricky to find good implant design etc.