In your opinion who was the best Heavyweight boxer of all time (GOAT HW thread)

[Bonesbonesbonesbone]

In my opinion the best and the one who had the most potential but never got to actually reach his peak/prime is Sonny Liston.

He was 6'1 tall 212lbs and had a ridicilous 7'1 reach/wingspan

not just that but he had 16 inch hands...


If you watched his fights he has more stopping power than deontay wilder if you take into the fact that boxing gloves back then had worse cushioning and more soft padding to not injure the opponents then current day boxing gloves.

 

[Clark69]

Muhammad Ali. Dominated Liston, Beat Frazier twice, and KO'd Foreman
Tyson can't be the best because he lost to Holyfield and Liston
Marciano has a good case but his resume doesn't stack up to Ali's
Fury hasn't fought Usyk or Joshua yet

 

[Kamui]

Logan Paul.

 

[Bonesbonesbonesbone]

Muhammad Ali. Dominated Liston, Beat Frazier twice, and KO'd Foreman
Tyson can't be the best because he lost to Holyfield and Liston
Marciano has a good case but his resume doesn't stack up to Ali's
Fury hasn't fought Usyk or Joshua yet

yes but ali was basically problem child and lived up to his potential, liston was already a oldcel when he got into boxing

 

[RetardSubhuman]

Larry holmes

 

[Gaygymmaxx]

Tyson because among his weight-class, he was a manlet machine.

 

[Gaygymmaxx]

Muhammad Ali. Dominated Liston, Beat Frazier twice, and KO'd Foreman
Tyson can't be the best because he lost to Holyfield and Liston
Marciano has a good case but his resume doesn't stack up to Ali's
Fury hasn't fought Usyk or Joshua yet

Ali because he got sturdy in the ring tbh

 

[Gaygymmaxx]

Larry holmes

Sounds like a rapist name, no way.

 

[RetardSubhuman]

Sounds like a rapist name, no way.

he raped everyone in the ring

 

[Gaygymmaxx]

he raped everyone in the ring

Based nvm

 

[Geneticist]

George Foreman is definitely the answer even though he's underrated asf. He completely raped, dominated, and curbstomped Joe Frazier and Ken Norton who both beat Muhammad Ali. The fights weren't close. Ali's rematches with both Frazier and Norton were very close, meanwhile George Foreman dominated Joe Frazier again in their rematch

You can say rock paper scissors but Ali just got lucky that night against an unsuspecting inexperienced Foreman. If Foreman was expecting it and trained harder and didn't let himself go he would have dominated Ali. Ali and his trainer refused a rematch with Foreman, we all know the reason. Foreman literally became world champion as a 45yo oldcel way out of his prime. Foreman was the hardest puncher by far in boxing history and had more potential than everyone, too bad he squandered it just like Mike Tyson did

 

[Geneticist]

This Chinese bvll is 40yo and still dominating everyone in boxing though, can't wait for his championship fight. When China gets more into boxing they'll dominate and rape everyone just like they're dominating in the Olympics

Zhang eyes heavyweight title fight after shock win over Joyce

Victory by China’s ‘Big Bang’ Zhang makes him the WBO’s mandatory challenger to Ukraine’s Oleksandr Usyk.

www.aljazeera.com

 

[Bonesbonesbonesbone]

George Foreman is definitely the answer even though he's underrated asf. He completely raped, dominated, and curbstomped Joe Frazier and Ken Norton who both beat Muhammad Ali. The fights weren't close. Ali's rematches with both Frazier and Norton were very close, meanwhile George Foreman dominated Joe Frazier again in their rematch

You can say rock paper scissors but Ali just got lucky that night against an unsuspecting inexperienced Foreman. If Foreman was expecting it and trained harder and didn't let himself go he would have dominated Ali. Ali and his trainer refused a rematch with Foreman, we all know the reason. Foreman literally became world champion as a 45yo oldcel way out of his prime. Foreman was the hardest puncher by far in boxing history and had more potential than everyone, too bad he squandered it just like Mike Tyson did

nah sonny liston for the win

 

[TheTakeoverHasBegun]

George Foreman is definitely the answer even though he's underrated asf. He completely raped, dominated, and curbstomped Joe Frazier and Ken Norton who both beat Muhammad Ali. The fights weren't close. Ali's rematches with both Frazier and Norton were very close, meanwhile George Foreman dominated Joe Frazier again in their rematch

You can say rock paper scissors but Ali just got lucky that night against an unsuspecting inexperienced Foreman. If Foreman was expecting it and trained harder and didn't let himself go he would have dominated Ali. Ali and his trainer refused a rematch with Foreman, we all know the reason. Foreman literally became world champion as a 45yo oldcel way out of his prime. Foreman was the hardest puncher by far in boxing history and had more potential than everyone, too bad he squandered it just like Mike Tyson did

Coping at every turn

 

[TheTakeoverHasBegun]

It's Ali or Louis. They have the two best resumes in the division by a mile. Every other pick just hinges on favoritism and complete lack of knowledge.

 

[Geneticist]

nah sonny liston for the win

Lol no George Foreman stomps him, Sonny Liston got knocked out first round by Ali

Coping at every turn

You don't know shit about boxing George Foreman had more potential than everyone else

 

[Geneticist]

It's Ali or Louis. They have the two best resumes in the division by a mile. Every other pick just hinges on favoritism and complete lack of knowledge.

Why did Muhammad Ali lose or struggle hard against Frazier and Norton in every single one of their fights while Foreman easily stomped and dominated Frazier and Norton in all their fights? Why did Ali refuse a rematch with Foreman? lmao

 

[Boxingfan]

Lennox luis

 

[TheTakeoverHasBegun]

You don't know shit about boxing George Foreman had more potential than everyone else

No he didn't. Foreman was an uncoordinated slugger with a suspect chin, who was fragile when he came across anyone who could survive his early onslaught. His potential was not higher than Tyson, Ali (before the suspension), Ike, McCall etc.

Why did Muhammad Ali lose or struggle hard against Frazier and Norton in every single one of their fights while Foreman easily stomped and dominated Frazier and Norton in all their fights?

Because styles make fights. Triangle theory doesn't work in combat sports, you should know this

Why did Ali refuse a rematch with Foreman?

He didn't refuse a rematch because there were never serious negotiations for one between the promoters.

 

[Geneticist]

No he didn't. Foreman was an uncoordinated slugger with a suspect chin, who was fragile when he came across anyone who could survive his early onslaught. His potential was not higher than Tyson, Ali (before the suspension), Ike, McCall etc.

Yes he did have the highest potential. These are world class champion boxers he consistently brutalized, the same ones who beat Ali. He also became world champion at 45 after letting himself go hard while Ali was getting dominated in his late 30s (partly due to Parkinson's).

Because styles make fights. Triangle theory doesn't work in combat sports, you should know this

I knew you would cope with rock paper scissors stuff. Styles make fights but I already mentioned how it doesn't apply in this case. How badly and consistently Foreman repeatedly dominated the boxers who beat Ali and consistently gave him close fights paired with the fact that Ali wouldn't rematch Foreman tells me all I need to know.

He didn't refuse a rematch because there were never serious negotiations for one between the promoters.

He did refuse a rematch, there weren't serious negotiations because Ali didn't want to fight Foreman again. Foreman was also pretty much begging for one

 

[TheTakeoverHasBegun]

These are world class champion boxers he consistently brutalized, the same ones who beat Ali. He also became world champion at 45 after letting himself go hard while Ali was getting dominated in his late 30s (partly due to Parkinson's)

Like, I said before: His potential was not higher than Tyson, Ali (before the suspension), Ike, McCall etc.

but I already mentioned how it doesn't apply in this case.

Yes it does, this is the best example of it along with Pacquiao/Marquez/Barrera/Morales

How badly and consistently Foreman repeatedly dominated the boxers

It was only two fighters in Fraizer and Norton who were tailor made for Foreman's style, not to mention both were carefully protected from big punchers their whole career.

paired with the fact that Ali wouldn't rematch Foreman tells me all I need to know.

Ali would have beat Foreman in the rematch because boxers > sluggers, and Foreman was a mental wreck after the Ali humiliation anyway. He would have never been mentally prepared for the rematch. He had his chance and he got clowned in front of the whole world.

He did refuse a rematch, there weren't serious negotiations because Ali didn't want to fight Foreman again. Foreman was also pretty much begging for one

There was never a refusal. Foreman didn't do anything to deserve a rematch in the first place.
And yes, Foreman was begging like a whore

 

[shotgunmaxxing]

Manual labour LAW. Sonny liston had massive arm length and thickness because he did manual labour all day growing up and it gave him insane punching power.

this is like when archers have one arm longer than the other, the bone adapts the force and grows the bone in childhood

The biggest puncher in boxing history was earnie shavers

Shavers would later estimate in his autobiography that chopping wood made his punches 25% more powerful.

Fracnsi Ngannou has the most powerful punch in the world today and grew up doing grueling work in a sand mine in Cameroon

Best arm wrestler in the world

 

[Geneticist]

Like, I said before: His potential was not higher than Tyson, Ali (before the suspension), Ike, McCall etc.

Yes it was

It was only two fighters in Fraizer and Norton who were tailor made for Foreman's style, not to mention both were carefully protected from big punchers their whole career.

No they weren't. Foreman was destroying and dominating literally everyone on his way to the world championship. Everyone bet on Foreman rather than Ali for a reason. I only bring up those two examples of his victims because they both beat Muhammad Ali. Not to mention the fact that Foreman became world champion at 45, the oldest world champion boxer at the time of his win.

Ali would have beat Foreman in the rematch because boxers > sluggers, and Foreman was a mental wreck after the Ali humiliation anyway. He would have never been mentally prepared for the rematch. He had his chance and he got clowned in front of the whole world.

Rock paper scissors isn't everything. Foreman was a mental wreck but if he recovered like he did for his second world championship win, he would have been prepared for Ali's rope a dope technique and would have dominated. You're forgetting he became world champion at 45 after retiring for a long time. Imagine if he still had the unrelenting power of his youth. He had the highest potential and merely didn't live up to it

There was never a refusal. Foreman didn't do anything to deserve a rematch in the first place.
And yes, Foreman was begging like a whore

There was a refusal. Seems like you despise Foreman for whatever reason, I'm just speaking objectively

 

[TheTakeoverHasBegun]

Yes it was

No

No they weren't.

Yes

Everyone bet on Foreman rather than Ali for a reason

Because Ali looked old and slow. He looked washed up. People picking Foreman had more to do with Ali looking washed than anything Foreman was doing, that's just the reality.

but if he recovered like he did for his second world championship win, he would have been prepared for Ali's rope a dope technique and would have dominated.

What makes you think Ali would have tried the rope-a-dope again? Ali never tried the same strategies in rematches.
Foreman would have gassed again because Foreman's gas tank was bad. Always was.
There is no reality where Foreman beats Ali in a 15 round fight because he'll gas, he can't KO Ali and he's damn sure not winning a decision, but most importantly, Ali can actually hurt Foreman. I've never seen Foreman's head snapped back as hard as it was than in the Ali fight, even when he was getting beat the hell up by Holyfield and Lyle's who hit harder than Ali.
Ali is just stylistically a bad matchup for Foreman in every conceivable way. Foreman has a punchers chance and that's it.
Ali wins again by KO in the 9th or 10.

Not to mention the fact that Foreman became world champion at 45, the oldest world champion boxer at the time of his win.

Mainly because Moore was not listening to Atlas instructions

Seems like you despise Foreman for whatever reason, I'm just speaking objectively

I love Foreman. Top 5 heavyweight ever, but you aren't being objective, that was already out of the window when you said he was the hardest puncher ever when it's Shavers, and everyone who's fought both has said so.

 

[Geneticist]

Because Ali looked old and slow. He looked washed up. People picking Foreman had more to do with Ali looking washed than anything Foreman was doing, that's just the reality.

This is cope. Foreman did significantly better and dominated harder in all his fights than Ali did so he was highly favored over Ali. He was simply a complete genetic beast and had more potential. That can backfire since pure talent can't always overcome hard work/technique and it can get you cocky. Foreman was just was caught completely off guard during that fight. He completely underestimated Ali, didn't prepare or train well at all, and was caught off guard by the rope a dope technique. Ali was extremely prepared and studied film and dissected everything about Foreman. Meanwhile Foreman didn't study any film AT ALL about Ali and just thought he could knock him out in 3 rounds and be done with it. These answers should clear things up. Most people there agree Foreman would win a rematch.

https://www.quora.com/Why-did-George-Foreman-lose-The-Rumble-in-the-Jungle

What makes you think Ali would have tried the rope-a-dope again? Ali never tried the same strategies in rematches.
Foreman would have gassed again because Foreman's gas tank was bad. Always was.
There is no reality where Foreman beats Ali in a 15 round fight because he'll gas, he can't KO Ali and he's damn sure not winning a decision, but most importantly, Ali can actually hurt Foreman. I've never seen Foreman's head snapped back as hard as it was than in the Ali fight, even when he was getting beat the hell up by Holyfield and Lyle's who hit harder than Ali.
Ali is just stylistically a bad matchup for Foreman in every conceivable way. Foreman has a punchers chance and that's it.
Ali wins again by KO in the 9th or 10.

Nope, Foreman handled his stamina much better as an older man. The way Foreman fought and the energies he put in to secure early round KOs was not conducive to his remaining viability over a prolonged number of rounds or the full distance. He never trained effectively for stamina either. He was cocky and wanted to use up all his energy and secure an early round knockout because it usually always worked for him due to his unstoppable power. Especially for Ali, who he severely underestimated and just went all out against and didn't pace himself at all against. Foreman was also known for not preparing well for fights which was the cause of most of his losses.

I can easily bet that with the experience of Foreman's older self and the unrelenting power of his youth, he would have utterly dominated prime Ali even though neither truly reached their prime. The reality is that at their very bests, Foreman would beat Ali. He also would have easily won a rematch, especially since Ali was getting older and weaker while Foreman wasn't even at his physical prime yet at 24. He was favored over Ali for a reason.

I love Foreman. Top 5 heavyweight ever, but you aren't being objective, that was already out of the window when you said he was the hardest puncher ever when it's Shavers everyone who's fought both has said so.

I am being objective, you aren't. Many boxing experts believe that Foreman would have won a rematch. Many of the people Foreman fought said he was the hardest puncher they ever faced by far. Also need source for the Shavers thing but regardless, it's widely agreed that Foreman was top 3 hardest punchers of all time

 

[TheTakeoverHasBegun]

Foreman did significantly better and dominated harder in all his fights than Ali did so he was highly favored over Ali.

If people knew Ali was going to perform the way he did in the Foreman fight, Foreman would have never been favored. Foreman being favored was because Ali looked like shit. End of story.

He was simply a complete genetic beast and had more potential. That can backfire since pure talent can't always overcome hard work/technique and it can get you cocky. Foreman was just was caught completely off guard during that fight. He completely underestimated Ali, didn't prepare or train well at all, and was caught off guard by the rope a dope technique. Ali was extremely prepared and studied film and dissected everything about Foreman. Meanwhile Foreman didn't study any film AT ALL about Ali and just thought he could knock him out in 3 rounds and be done with it. These answers should clear things up. Most people there agree Foreman would win a rematch.

Please explain to me what tactics Foreman could use that would beat Ali.
Beat him in the inside? No. Ali was stronger than Foreman in the clinch.
Beat him in the mid-range? No.
Beat him on the outside? No.
Time his rhythm like Fraizer did in FOTC? No.
Try to out-box him?
Boxers > sluggers. End of story.

Foreman handled his stamina much better as an older man.

What does that have to do with young Foreman? And Foreman never handled his stamina well. He gassed in every fight that got pushed deep.

I can easily bet that with the experience of Foreman's older self and the unrelenting power of his youth, he would have utterly dominated prime Ali even though neither truly reached their prime.

You're basically doing the thing that Foreman fans do where they try to add the best qualities of his young and old self together to create a fighter that did not exist. You are literally writing fan-fiction right now.

The reality is that at their very bests, Foreman would beat Ali

Ali at his best is 1964-1966 Ali. Thinking any composite version of Foreman beats that Ali is hilarious.

He also would have easily won a rematch, especially since Ali was getting older and weaker

Yeah after 1976. A hypothetical Foreman rematch would have needed to take place between 74-76, where Ali hit his second prime. Foreman loses that again.

Many boxing experts believe

"Boxing experts" don't know shit and have been wrong about the sport since it's inception

Many of the people Foreman fought said he was the hardest puncher they ever faced by far

Name the people who fought both Foreman and Shavers that said Foreman hit harder

Also need source for the Shavers thing but regardless

Not going to find each individual source (although there's a video of Ali specifically talking about it) but Caldwell, Ali, Polite, Lyle, Norton and Young all said Shavers hit harder. I don't think anyone who fought both said Foreman hit harder. You can tell Foreman doesn't hit harder because he needed a multitude of punches to get the job done. Shavers just needed one punch

it's widely agreed that Foreman was top 3 hardest punchers of all time

Sure, but you said he was the hardest puncher ever "by far"

 

[Samsara]

Lennox Lewis dogwalks all these guys.

 

[Revenge123]

Why did Muhammad Ali lose or struggle hard against Frazier and Norton in every single one of their fights while Foreman easily stomped and dominated Frazier and Norton in all their fights? Why did Ali refuse a rematch with Foreman? lmao

Ali dominated Foreman in Foreman's prime. Ali was already old at that point

 

[Deleted member 16501]

Larry holmes

Was watching him last night

He's underrated NGl

 

[Deleted member 16501]

Sugar Ray Robinson
George Forman
Prime Tyson
Ali
Sonny Liston
Jack Johnson

 

[TheTakeoverHasBegun]

Sugar Ray Robinson
George Forman
Prime Tyson
Ali
Sonny Liston
Jack Johnson

He said HW's
SRR is a not a HW

 

[eyes]

In my opinion the best and the one who had the most potential but never got to actually reach his peak/prime is Sonny Liston.

View attachment 2361691View attachment 2361692View attachment 2361693

He was 6'1 tall 212lbs and had a ridicilous 7'1 reach/wingspan

not just that but he had 16 inch hands...


If you watched his fights he has more stopping power than deontay wilder if you take into the fact that boxing gloves back then had worse cushioning and more soft padding to not injure the opponents then current day boxing gloves.

DNRD

prime Liston or prime Holmes

 

[PointOfNoReturn]

Lennox Lewis or Holyfield

 

[TDTaykurso]

tyson fury for fucking sure, WAY too big, too fast, too strong

 

[Deleted member 16501]

Lennox Lewis or Holyfield

Laughable

 

[Kamui]

tyson fury for fucking sure, WAY too big, too fast, too strong

Tyson Fury is great but he’s overrated af lmao, he would get obliterated by any of the other HW mentioned here

 

[TheTakeoverHasBegun]

tyson fury for fucking sure, WAY too big, too fast, too strong

Not a chance

 

[TDTaykurso]

Not a chance

would like u to name someone who could beat prime tyson (the tyson fury that beat deontay wilder) he's literally 6'9 and unbeatable, nigga gets up from EVERYTHING, and the person ur gonna name has probably already been manhandled by someone HALF his size.

 

[Bonesbonesbonesbone]

Not a chance

Most UFC heavyweights could likely beat these HW boxers, Id say francis ngannou, jon jones or derrick lewis have the capability of ending a street fight with one single jab.

 

[TDTaykurso]

Tyson Fury is great but he’s overrated af lmao, he would get obliterated by any of the other HW mentioned here

cap, all the greats ur gonna name have been asswhooped by someone half tysons size JFL, nigga is too big and would obliterate that era, unbiased shit.

 

[Bonesbonesbonesbone]

would like u to name someone who could beat prime tyson (the tyson fury that beat deontay wilder) he's literally 6'9 and unbeatable, nigga gets up from EVERYTHING, and the person ur gonna name has probably already been manhandled by someone HALF his size.

Francis Ngannou, Derrick lewis and possibly jones could knock him out in a street fight setting

 

[TDTaykurso]

Francis Ngannou, Derrick lewis and possibly jones could knock him out in a street fight setting

that's a hypothetical homie that's a no brainer, but they'd get stupidly bitched in the BOXING RING JFL. lanes

 

[Bonesbonesbonesbone]

that's a hypothetical homie that's a no brainer, but they'd get stupidly bitched in the BOXING RING JFL. lanes

tyson fury would destroy nearly everyone in a boxing ring but boxing ring dont matter when the streets is all that matters.

 

[TDTaykurso]

tyson fury would destroy nearly everyone in a boxing ring but boxing ring dont matter when the streets is all that matters.

ye agreed, but doesn't change tyson fury would fuck jon jones up badly in the boxing ring, ngannou too, (i'm a huge fanboy of jones so its a painful pill) but i'd agree a BUNCH of the ufc hws and even lhws would make quick work of him out the ring, wrestling techniques will easily break bones JFL. + punches wont do much shit when u got no footing

 

[TDTaykurso]

tyson fury would destroy nearly everyone in a boxing ring but boxing ring dont matter when the streets is all that matters.

i'd argue theres a super limited amount of ufc hws who wouldnt be able to beat a prime mike tyson, 99% of the niggas wont even be able to get close without getting flamed up with brain damaging shots JFL.

 

[Bonesbonesbonesbone]

ye agreed, but doesn't change tyson fury would fuck jon jones up badly in the boxing ring, ngannou too, (i'm a huge fanboy of jones so its a painful pill) but i'd agree a BUNCH of the ufc hws and even lhws would make quick work of him out the ring, wrestling techniques will easily break bones JFL. + punches wont do much shit when u got no footing

in a street fight most of the time it ends up with someone getting knocked out. Wrestling is not uncommon but its not as common as striking for street fights

 

[Bonesbonesbonesbone]

i'd argue theres a super limited amount of ufc hws who would be able to beat a prime mike tyson, 99% of the niggas wont even be able to get close without getting flamed up with brain damaging shots JFL.

Ngannou has more power then mike tyson imo, plus ngannou has a very long reach so in a street fight ngannou rlly just needs to land a solid power jab to tysons jaw and he is going night night. this can be countered by tysons incredible peek a boo style but its rare to miss a jab when ur 6'5 with like a 7'2 reach (ngannou)

 

[TDTaykurso]

Ngannou has more power then mike tyson imo, plus ngannou has a very long reach so in a street fight ngannou rlly just needs to land a solid power jab to tysons jaw and he is going night night. this can be countered by tysons incredible peek a boo style but its rare to miss a jab when ur 6'5 with like a 7'2 reach (ngannou)

i think mike in his absolute PRIME, ngannou doesnt have a chance especially in a street fight that niggas footwork was so underrated, and his legs looked like fucking horse legs, that nigga was SO stupidly fast and i think if they both fought in their primes mike would knock ngannou out quick as a BITCH JFL.

 

[TDTaykurso]

Ngannou has more power then mike tyson imo, plus ngannou has a very long reach so in a street fight ngannou rlly just needs to land a solid power jab to tysons jaw and he is going night night. this can be countered by tysons incredible peek a boo style but its rare to miss a jab when ur 6'5 with like a 7'2 reach (ngannou)

also disagree on power respectfully, mike was a fucking MONSTER bro, ngannou wouldnt be able to do shit before he gets slid on the concrete JFL.

 

[TDTaykurso]

Ngannou has more power then mike tyson imo, plus ngannou has a very long reach so in a street fight ngannou rlly just needs to land a solid power jab to tysons jaw and he is going night night. this can be countered by tysons incredible peek a boo style but its rare to miss a jab when ur 6'5 with like a 7'2 reach (ngannou)

when tyson fury fights ngannou you're gonna see how slow he is, and fury is gonna fuck his ass up (obviously) but you're gonna see what ngannou looks like, vs what prime tyson looked like, i'd say mike tyson has the best chance of beating Tyson Fury, but i'd still put my life savings and car on fury weightbullying and knocking out mike.