Isotretinoin (accutane) will stunt your growth and affect how you develop in puberty

infrainfra

infrainfra

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long story short


Isotretinoin undergoes isomerization to all-trans-retinoic acid. so just tretinoin.

retinoic acid binds to retinoic acid receptors and RXR (retinoid x receptors)

this directly changes the transcription of genes controlling cartilage maturation

look at this :
„Twenty 3-week-old male rats were randomly divided into a control group and an experimental group (n = 10). The experimental rats were treated by gavage with high-dose ATRA for 10 days. After this period, the experimental rats exhibited a lower body weight and shorter nasal-tail and radial tibial length than the controls. CYP26B1 enzyme activity in the liver was elevated, and histopathological staining revealed a narrowed cartilaginous epiphyseal plate, a sparse medullary cavity of trabecular bone, fewer trabecular bones, and advanced bone marrow mineralization. The circulating GH, IGF-I, and IGFBP3 levels decreased. The authors concluded that high-dose ATRA intake over a brief period reduces GH, IGF-I, and IGFBP3 levels, affects cartilage and bone homeostasis, and inhibits bone growth in developing animals ”

ATRA = all trans retinoic acid*

There is more. Study on humans :

„Karadag et al. studied the effect of isotretinoin on the GH-IGF-I axis in 47 patients (15–40 years) with acne. The therapy was initiated at a dose of 0.5–0.75 mg/kg/day and adjusted to 0.88 mg/kg/day as a maintenance dosage after 1 month. After 3 months of treatment, the IGF-I and IGFBP3 levels significantly decreased, while the mean basal GH levels did not change.”

„In another study of the same group of researchers including 105 patients with acne (14–42 years), the participants were divided into three groups based on the isotretinoin dose: 0.5–1.0 mg/kg/day (high dose—group 1), 0.2–0.5 mg/kg/day (low dose—group 2), and an intermittent 0.5–1.0 mg/kg/day only one week per month (intermittent dose—group 3). After 3 months of therapy, the isotretinoin significantly reduced the IGF-I and random GH levels in groups 1 and 2, and these effects were more pronounced in the high-dose group. The IGFBP3 levels were significantly reduced in all three groups, and the weakest effect was seen in the intermittent-dose group . The total testosterone and cortisol levels decreased, and the sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG) levels increased significantly in the three groups after therapy.”

look at this : „The total testosterone and cortisol levels decreased, and the sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG) levels increased significantly”


SO IT ALSO FUCKS WITH OTHER HORMONES.




IMG 2974


take a look at that for a little summary


doesnt stop here. take a look at this




IMG 2975




Now recently a clinical case of a boy suggests that elevated retinoic acid concentrations accelerate bone and dental maturation in humans.


„The patient was a 10-year-old prepubertal boy with retinal scarring, photophobia, autism spectrum disease, markedly advanced bone age, and accelerated dental development. He was born full term after an uncomplicated pregnancy and delivery, with a birth weight of 2.98 kg [−1.3 standard deviation score (SDS)] and birth length of 46 cm (−2.3 SDS). At the physical exam, he had pubic hair Tanner II, a testicular size of 3–4 mL bilaterally, and no gynecomastia. He presented with low serum vitamin A and elevated total and 13-cis-retinoc acid concentrations and a 3-year advance in bone age, which was advanced in relation to the chronological age without elevated estrogen levels. This syndrome was associated with a deletion on chromosome 10q23, which included the genes of the major retinoic acid-metabolizing enzymes”





okay enough of in vivo studies
i will just type out the mechanisms it fucks your puberty so you can understand it


It pushes chondros into hypertrophy faster so just less bone lengthening.
it also supresses chondrocyte proliferation.

The growth plate only has a finite number of proliferative chondrocytes. Anything that causes these cells to stop dividing or disappear faster will just accelerate growth plate aging. this is also called senescence


it increases mineralization and ossification so cartilage becomes bone faster. so growth potential is lost sooner.




there is more mechanisms in which isotret (accutane) will fuck you up. IDK AND IDC this is enough not to use it.




is there any solution? yes - topical anti androgens with low systemic absorption for the same use-case of isotret (acne)






IMG 2976




Stupid chatgpt
 
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dnr
true though
 
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same goes for topical isotret
 
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long story short


Isotretinoin undergoes isomerization to all-trans-retinoic acid. so just tretinoin.

retinoic acid binds to retinoic acid receptors and RXR (retinoid x receptors)

this directly changes the transcription of genes controlling cartilage maturation

look at this :
„Twenty 3-week-old male rats were randomly divided into a control group and an experimental group (n = 10). The experimental rats were treated by gavage with high-dose ATRA for 10 days. After this period, the experimental rats exhibited a lower body weight and shorter nasal-tail and radial tibial length than the controls. CYP26B1 enzyme activity in the liver was elevated, and histopathological staining revealed a narrowed cartilaginous epiphyseal plate, a sparse medullary cavity of trabecular bone, fewer trabecular bones, and advanced bone marrow mineralization. The circulating GH, IGF-I, and IGFBP3 levels decreased. The authors concluded that high-dose ATRA intake over a brief period reduces GH, IGF-I, and IGFBP3 levels, affects cartilage and bone homeostasis, and inhibits bone growth in developing animals ”

ATRA = all trans retinoic acid*

There is more. Study on humans :

„Karadag et al. studied the effect of isotretinoin on the GH-IGF-I axis in 47 patients (15–40 years) with acne. The therapy was initiated at a dose of 0.5–0.75 mg/kg/day and adjusted to 0.88 mg/kg/day as a maintenance dosage after 1 month. After 3 months of treatment, the IGF-I and IGFBP3 levels significantly decreased, while the mean basal GH levels did not change.”

„In another study of the same group of researchers including 105 patients with acne (14–42 years), the participants were divided into three groups based on the isotretinoin dose: 0.5–1.0 mg/kg/day (high dose—group 1), 0.2–0.5 mg/kg/day (low dose—group 2), and an intermittent 0.5–1.0 mg/kg/day only one week per month (intermittent dose—group 3). After 3 months of therapy, the isotretinoin significantly reduced the IGF-I and random GH levels in groups 1 and 2, and these effects were more pronounced in the high-dose group. The IGFBP3 levels were significantly reduced in all three groups, and the weakest effect was seen in the intermittent-dose group . The total testosterone and cortisol levels decreased, and the sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG) levels increased significantly in the three groups after therapy.”

look at this : „The total testosterone and cortisol levels decreased, and the sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG) levels increased significantly”


SO IT ALSO FUCKS WITH OTHER HORMONES.




View attachment 5167822

take a look at that for a little summary


doesnt stop here. take a look at this




View attachment 5167844



Now recently a clinical case of a boy suggests that elevated retinoic acid concentrations accelerate bone and dental maturation in humans.


„The patient was a 10-year-old prepubertal boy with retinal scarring, photophobia, autism spectrum disease, markedly advanced bone age, and accelerated dental development. He was born full term after an uncomplicated pregnancy and delivery, with a birth weight of 2.98 kg [−1.3 standard deviation score (SDS)] and birth length of 46 cm (−2.3 SDS). At the physical exam, he had pubic hair Tanner II, a testicular size of 3–4 mL bilaterally, and no gynecomastia. He presented with low serum vitamin A and elevated total and 13-cis-retinoc acid concentrations and a 3-year advance in bone age, which was advanced in relation to the chronological age without elevated estrogen levels. This syndrome was associated with a deletion on chromosome 10q23, which included the genes of the major retinoic acid-metabolizing enzymes”





okay enough of in vivo studies
i will just type out the mechanisms it fucks your puberty so you can understand it


It pushes chondros into hypertrophy faster so just less bone lengthening.
it also supresses chondrocyte proliferation.

The growth plate only has a finite number of proliferative chondrocytes. Anything that causes these cells to stop dividing or disappear faster will just accelerate growth plate aging. this is also called senescence


it increases mineralization and ossification so cartilage becomes bone faster. so growth potential is lost sooner.




there is more mechanisms in which isotret (accutane) will fuck you up. IDK AND IDC this is enough not to use it.




is there any solution? yes - topical anti androgens with low systemic absorption for the same use-case of isotret (acne)






View attachment 5167898



Stupid chatgpt
@Zagro @Ahmed88
 
long story short


Isotretinoin undergoes isomerization to all-trans-retinoic acid. so just tretinoin.

retinoic acid binds to retinoic acid receptors and RXR (retinoid x receptors)

this directly changes the transcription of genes controlling cartilage maturation

look at this :
„Twenty 3-week-old male rats were randomly divided into a control group and an experimental group (n = 10). The experimental rats were treated by gavage with high-dose ATRA for 10 days. After this period, the experimental rats exhibited a lower body weight and shorter nasal-tail and radial tibial length than the controls. CYP26B1 enzyme activity in the liver was elevated, and histopathological staining revealed a narrowed cartilaginous epiphyseal plate, a sparse medullary cavity of trabecular bone, fewer trabecular bones, and advanced bone marrow mineralization. The circulating GH, IGF-I, and IGFBP3 levels decreased. The authors concluded that high-dose ATRA intake over a brief period reduces GH, IGF-I, and IGFBP3 levels, affects cartilage and bone homeostasis, and inhibits bone growth in developing animals ”

ATRA = all trans retinoic acid*

There is more. Study on humans :

„Karadag et al. studied the effect of isotretinoin on the GH-IGF-I axis in 47 patients (15–40 years) with acne. The therapy was initiated at a dose of 0.5–0.75 mg/kg/day and adjusted to 0.88 mg/kg/day as a maintenance dosage after 1 month. After 3 months of treatment, the IGF-I and IGFBP3 levels significantly decreased, while the mean basal GH levels did not change.”

„In another study of the same group of researchers including 105 patients with acne (14–42 years), the participants were divided into three groups based on the isotretinoin dose: 0.5–1.0 mg/kg/day (high dose—group 1), 0.2–0.5 mg/kg/day (low dose—group 2), and an intermittent 0.5–1.0 mg/kg/day only one week per month (intermittent dose—group 3). After 3 months of therapy, the isotretinoin significantly reduced the IGF-I and random GH levels in groups 1 and 2, and these effects were more pronounced in the high-dose group. The IGFBP3 levels were significantly reduced in all three groups, and the weakest effect was seen in the intermittent-dose group . The total testosterone and cortisol levels decreased, and the sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG) levels increased significantly in the three groups after therapy.”

look at this : „The total testosterone and cortisol levels decreased, and the sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG) levels increased significantly”


SO IT ALSO FUCKS WITH OTHER HORMONES.




View attachment 5167822

take a look at that for a little summary


doesnt stop here. take a look at this




View attachment 5167844



Now recently a clinical case of a boy suggests that elevated retinoic acid concentrations accelerate bone and dental maturation in humans.


„The patient was a 10-year-old prepubertal boy with retinal scarring, photophobia, autism spectrum disease, markedly advanced bone age, and accelerated dental development. He was born full term after an uncomplicated pregnancy and delivery, with a birth weight of 2.98 kg [−1.3 standard deviation score (SDS)] and birth length of 46 cm (−2.3 SDS). At the physical exam, he had pubic hair Tanner II, a testicular size of 3–4 mL bilaterally, and no gynecomastia. He presented with low serum vitamin A and elevated total and 13-cis-retinoc acid concentrations and a 3-year advance in bone age, which was advanced in relation to the chronological age without elevated estrogen levels. This syndrome was associated with a deletion on chromosome 10q23, which included the genes of the major retinoic acid-metabolizing enzymes”





okay enough of in vivo studies
i will just type out the mechanisms it fucks your puberty so you can understand it


It pushes chondros into hypertrophy faster so just less bone lengthening.
it also supresses chondrocyte proliferation.

The growth plate only has a finite number of proliferative chondrocytes. Anything that causes these cells to stop dividing or disappear faster will just accelerate growth plate aging. this is also called senescence


it increases mineralization and ossification so cartilage becomes bone faster. so growth potential is lost sooner.




there is more mechanisms in which isotret (accutane) will fuck you up. IDK AND IDC this is enough not to use it.




is there any solution? yes - topical anti androgens with low systemic absorption for the same use-case of isotret (acne)






View attachment 5167898



Stupid chatgpt
@birthdefect
 
who do i tag
 
long story short


Isotretinoin undergoes isomerization to all-trans-retinoic acid. so just tretinoin.

retinoic acid binds to retinoic acid receptors and RXR (retinoid x receptors)

this directly changes the transcription of genes controlling cartilage maturation

look at this :
„Twenty 3-week-old male rats were randomly divided into a control group and an experimental group (n = 10). The experimental rats were treated by gavage with high-dose ATRA for 10 days. After this period, the experimental rats exhibited a lower body weight and shorter nasal-tail and radial tibial length than the controls. CYP26B1 enzyme activity in the liver was elevated, and histopathological staining revealed a narrowed cartilaginous epiphyseal plate, a sparse medullary cavity of trabecular bone, fewer trabecular bones, and advanced bone marrow mineralization. The circulating GH, IGF-I, and IGFBP3 levels decreased. The authors concluded that high-dose ATRA intake over a brief period reduces GH, IGF-I, and IGFBP3 levels, affects cartilage and bone homeostasis, and inhibits bone growth in developing animals ”

ATRA = all trans retinoic acid*

There is more. Study on humans :

„Karadag et al. studied the effect of isotretinoin on the GH-IGF-I axis in 47 patients (15–40 years) with acne. The therapy was initiated at a dose of 0.5–0.75 mg/kg/day and adjusted to 0.88 mg/kg/day as a maintenance dosage after 1 month. After 3 months of treatment, the IGF-I and IGFBP3 levels significantly decreased, while the mean basal GH levels did not change.”

„In another study of the same group of researchers including 105 patients with acne (14–42 years), the participants were divided into three groups based on the isotretinoin dose: 0.5–1.0 mg/kg/day (high dose—group 1), 0.2–0.5 mg/kg/day (low dose—group 2), and an intermittent 0.5–1.0 mg/kg/day only one week per month (intermittent dose—group 3). After 3 months of therapy, the isotretinoin significantly reduced the IGF-I and random GH levels in groups 1 and 2, and these effects were more pronounced in the high-dose group. The IGFBP3 levels were significantly reduced in all three groups, and the weakest effect was seen in the intermittent-dose group . The total testosterone and cortisol levels decreased, and the sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG) levels increased significantly in the three groups after therapy.”

look at this : „The total testosterone and cortisol levels decreased, and the sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG) levels increased significantly”


SO IT ALSO FUCKS WITH OTHER HORMONES.




View attachment 5167822

take a look at that for a little summary


doesnt stop here. take a look at this




View attachment 5167844



Now recently a clinical case of a boy suggests that elevated retinoic acid concentrations accelerate bone and dental maturation in humans.


„The patient was a 10-year-old prepubertal boy with retinal scarring, photophobia, autism spectrum disease, markedly advanced bone age, and accelerated dental development. He was born full term after an uncomplicated pregnancy and delivery, with a birth weight of 2.98 kg [−1.3 standard deviation score (SDS)] and birth length of 46 cm (−2.3 SDS). At the physical exam, he had pubic hair Tanner II, a testicular size of 3–4 mL bilaterally, and no gynecomastia. He presented with low serum vitamin A and elevated total and 13-cis-retinoc acid concentrations and a 3-year advance in bone age, which was advanced in relation to the chronological age without elevated estrogen levels. This syndrome was associated with a deletion on chromosome 10q23, which included the genes of the major retinoic acid-metabolizing enzymes”





okay enough of in vivo studies
i will just type out the mechanisms it fucks your puberty so you can understand it


It pushes chondros into hypertrophy faster so just less bone lengthening.
it also supresses chondrocyte proliferation.

The growth plate only has a finite number of proliferative chondrocytes. Anything that causes these cells to stop dividing or disappear faster will just accelerate growth plate aging. this is also called senescence


it increases mineralization and ossification so cartilage becomes bone faster. so growth potential is lost sooner.




there is more mechanisms in which isotret (accutane) will fuck you up. IDK AND IDC this is enough not to use it.




is there any solution? yes - topical anti androgens with low systemic absorption for the same use-case of isotret (acne)






View attachment 5167898



Stupid chatgpt
@Kojo
 
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horseshit thread
 
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dose dependent. Super low doses like 5mg won't affect growth noticeably
 
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high iq post
 
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long story short


Isotretinoin undergoes isomerization to all-trans-retinoic acid. so just tretinoin.

retinoic acid binds to retinoic acid receptors and RXR (retinoid x receptors)

this directly changes the transcription of genes controlling cartilage maturation

look at this :
„Twenty 3-week-old male rats were randomly divided into a control group and an experimental group (n = 10). The experimental rats were treated by gavage with high-dose ATRA for 10 days. After this period, the experimental rats exhibited a lower body weight and shorter nasal-tail and radial tibial length than the controls. CYP26B1 enzyme activity in the liver was elevated, and histopathological staining revealed a narrowed cartilaginous epiphyseal plate, a sparse medullary cavity of trabecular bone, fewer trabecular bones, and advanced bone marrow mineralization. The circulating GH, IGF-I, and IGFBP3 levels decreased. The authors concluded that high-dose ATRA intake over a brief period reduces GH, IGF-I, and IGFBP3 levels, affects cartilage and bone homeostasis, and inhibits bone growth in developing animals ”

ATRA = all trans retinoic acid*

There is more. Study on humans :

„Karadag et al. studied the effect of isotretinoin on the GH-IGF-I axis in 47 patients (15–40 years) with acne. The therapy was initiated at a dose of 0.5–0.75 mg/kg/day and adjusted to 0.88 mg/kg/day as a maintenance dosage after 1 month. After 3 months of treatment, the IGF-I and IGFBP3 levels significantly decreased, while the mean basal GH levels did not change.”

„In another study of the same group of researchers including 105 patients with acne (14–42 years), the participants were divided into three groups based on the isotretinoin dose: 0.5–1.0 mg/kg/day (high dose—group 1), 0.2–0.5 mg/kg/day (low dose—group 2), and an intermittent 0.5–1.0 mg/kg/day only one week per month (intermittent dose—group 3). After 3 months of therapy, the isotretinoin significantly reduced the IGF-I and random GH levels in groups 1 and 2, and these effects were more pronounced in the high-dose group. The IGFBP3 levels were significantly reduced in all three groups, and the weakest effect was seen in the intermittent-dose group . The total testosterone and cortisol levels decreased, and the sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG) levels increased significantly in the three groups after therapy.”

look at this : „The total testosterone and cortisol levels decreased, and the sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG) levels increased significantly”


SO IT ALSO FUCKS WITH OTHER HORMONES.




View attachment 5167822

take a look at that for a little summary


doesnt stop here. take a look at this




View attachment 5167844



Now recently a clinical case of a boy suggests that elevated retinoic acid concentrations accelerate bone and dental maturation in humans.


„The patient was a 10-year-old prepubertal boy with retinal scarring, photophobia, autism spectrum disease, markedly advanced bone age, and accelerated dental development. He was born full term after an uncomplicated pregnancy and delivery, with a birth weight of 2.98 kg [−1.3 standard deviation score (SDS)] and birth length of 46 cm (−2.3 SDS). At the physical exam, he had pubic hair Tanner II, a testicular size of 3–4 mL bilaterally, and no gynecomastia. He presented with low serum vitamin A and elevated total and 13-cis-retinoc acid concentrations and a 3-year advance in bone age, which was advanced in relation to the chronological age without elevated estrogen levels. This syndrome was associated with a deletion on chromosome 10q23, which included the genes of the major retinoic acid-metabolizing enzymes”





okay enough of in vivo studies
i will just type out the mechanisms it fucks your puberty so you can understand it


It pushes chondros into hypertrophy faster so just less bone lengthening.
it also supresses chondrocyte proliferation.

The growth plate only has a finite number of proliferative chondrocytes. Anything that causes these cells to stop dividing or disappear faster will just accelerate growth plate aging. this is also called senescence


it increases mineralization and ossification so cartilage becomes bone faster. so growth potential is lost sooner.




there is more mechanisms in which isotret (accutane) will fuck you up. IDK AND IDC this is enough not to use it.




is there any solution? yes - topical anti androgens with low systemic absorption for the same use-case of isotret (acne)






View attachment 5167898



Stupid chatgpt
Read, I'm still mixed on this though.

Premises I can concede to:

- Affects igf-1/gh axis
- Has test effects even though it's pretty mild
- All in all, has effects on chon proliferation/cartilage cells especially at high dose

There's still not enough evidence it has actually changed adult height outside of a study treating neuroblastoma with giga high dosages.

I think ancillaries can easily help this, e.g if you're on supraphysiological doses of hgh whilst using accutane then it really doesn't matter that you get decreased igf. Decreased test in this case would bne good also.

Before you get all pissy and act like I'm denying what you're saying, I'm not. I'm simply saying I can concede that there's definitely effects, just can't say it's permanently gonna rape ur height at like a modest 0.3mg/kg/day dosage. Once off accutane you'll relieve these sides anyways lol

Check my recent thread btw
 
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dose dependent. Super low doses like 5mg won't affect growth noticeably
everything is dose dependent. what u said is essentially that lower doses will just blunt growth less to the point its not noticeable. yeah and 5mg accutane you would need to take like for super long doing the same damage as a bigger dose would in a shorter span
 
damn bro i did both for like a year durin puberty
 
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Read, I'm still mixed on this though.

Premises I can concede to:

- Affects igf-1/gh axis
- Has test effects even though it's pretty mild
- All in all, has effects on chon proliferation/cartilage cells especially at high dose

There's still not enough evidence it has actually changed adult height outside of a study treating neuroblastoma with giga high dosages.

I think ancillaries can easily help this, e.g if you're on supraphysiological doses of hgh whilst using accutane then it really doesn't matter that you get decreased igf. Decreased test in this case would bne good also.

Before you get all pissy and act like I'm denying what you're saying, I'm not. I'm simply saying I can concede that there's definitely effects, just can't say it's permanently gonna rape ur height at like a modest 0.3mg/kg/day dosage. Once off accutane you'll relieve these sides anyways lol

Check my recent thread btw
It pushes chondros into hypertrophy faster so just less bone lengthening.
it also supresses chondrocyte proliferation.

The growth plate only has a finite number of proliferative chondrocytes. Anything that causes these cells to stop dividing or disappear faster will just accelerate growth plate aging. this is also called senescence
it increases mineralization and ossification so cartilage becomes bone faster. so growth potential is lost sooner.

you also got in vivo studies showing ATRA having negative effects on growth. thats essentially all u need

0.3mg/kg will just blunt growth less lol. also the lower the doses the more u have to take it afaik
 
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damn bro i did both for like a year durin puberty
: / its not the worse thing that can happen but u definitely lost potential height
 
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It pushes chondros into hypertrophy faster so just less bone lengthening.
it also supresses chondrocyte proliferation.

The growth plate only has a finite number of proliferative chondrocytes. Anything that causes these cells to stop dividing or disappear faster will just accelerate growth plate aging. this is also called senescence
it increases mineralization and ossification so cartilage becomes bone faster. so growth potential is lost sooner.
Very true, I just think if you're taking accutane at a period in time where you're growing, you should be taking other shit regardless. High dose rhGH would mitigate almost all of these problems on its own. Erda would be even better
 
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Very true, I just think if you're taking accutane at a period in time where you're growing, you should be taking other shit regardless. High dose rhGH would mitigate almost all of these problems on its own. Erda would be even better
not quite sure if erda is good yet. not sure if it promotes self renewal. worst case erda will give u a growth spurt but result in less fah
 
  • Hmm...
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not quite sure if erda is good yet. not sure if it promotes self renewal. worst case erda will give u a growth spurt but result in less fah
I'll read on it
 
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Very true, I just think if you're taking accutane at a period in time where you're growing, you should be taking other shit regardless. High dose rhGH would mitigate almost all of these problems on its own. Erda would be even better
erdafitinibs moa (for longitudinal growth) has nothing to do with the negative effect of accutane
i skimmed through the thread and it said basal gh remained unchanged but igf1 and igfbp3 decreased, so it could be disrupting igf1 production from hgh ie gh resistance
not sure tho cus i dnrd cus not bothered rn
 
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erdafitinibs moa (for longitudinal growth) has nothing to do with the negative effect of accutane
i skimmed through the thread and it said basal gh remained unchanged but igf1 and igfbp3 decreased, so it could be disrupting igf1 production from hgh ie gh resistance
not sure tho cus i dnrd cus not bothered rn
Well if fgfr3 puts a brake on chondrocyte proliferation, and accutane hinders that process to a degree, fgfr3 inhibs boosting proliferation would counteract accutanes negative effects on chon prolif.

And accutane definitely doesn’t make that much of an effect to be superior to GH/erda
 
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Well if fgfr3 puts a brake on chondrocyte proliferation, and accutane hinders that process to a degree, fgfr3 inhibs boosting proliferation would counteract accutanes negative effects on chon prolif.
i meant the exact moa not just the general effect
And accutane definitely doesn’t make that much of an effect to be superior to GH/erda
agreed
 
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topical tretinoin wouldn't have any significant systemic effects, yay or nay?
 
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not quite sure if erda is good yet. not sure if it promotes self renewal. worst case erda will give u a growth spurt but result in less fah
so combine isotret with rhgh would be good idea?
 
Is there anything that can be done to counteract the damage? (20 mg, 7 months)
 
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Is there anything that can be done to counteract the damage? (20 mg, 7 months)
run hgh and have a cohesive estrogen protocol and dont overuse androgens. dont do it tho
 
run hgh and have a cohesive estrogen protocol and dont overuse androgens. dont do it tho
i already did it unfortunaly … during accutane i also had ed and libido issues …

would do u think of 175 mg test , 6.25 exemestan E3D, 12 IU hgh , 10IU lantus to save me from what accutane maybe did
 
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Reactions: infrainfra
i already did it unfortunaly … during accutane i also had ed and libido issues …

would do u think of 175 mg test , 6.25 exemestan E3D, 12 IU hgh , 10IU lantus to save me from what accutane maybe did
throw out test how old r u ?
 
finally someone with above room temp iq

sadly im a victim of this
 
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It pushes chondros into hypertrophy faster so just less bone lengthening.
it also supresses chondrocyte proliferation.

The growth plate only has a finite number of proliferative chondrocytes. Anything that causes these cells to stop dividing or disappear faster will just accelerate growth plate aging. this is also called senescence
it increases mineralization and ossification so cartilage becomes bone faster. so growth potential is lost sooner.

you also got in vivo studies showing ATRA having negative effects on growth. thats essentially all u need

0.3mg/kg will just blunt growth less lol. also the lower the doses the more u have to take it afaik
none of this matters if your in puberty you should be taking AI keeping e2 at 10-15 and running HGH putting u in the supraphysiological range, all this will be redundant then and if your not doing that during puberty your probably retarded anyway
 
none of this matters if your in puberty you should be taking AI keeping e2 at 10-15 and running HGH putting u in the supraphysiological range, all this will be redundant then and if your not doing that during puberty your probably retarded anyway
you are a retard. running Ais and hgh isnt stopping the fact that accutane ossifies the plate so less growth and faster closure. fucking dumbass
 
you are a retard. running Ais and hgh isnt stopping the fact that accutane ossifies the plate so less growth and faster closure. fucking dumbass
Your not ossifying shit w a crashed e2, there's a reason they use AIs to delay natural senescence, redundant effects from Accutane wont mean shit in that context.
 
long story short


Isotretinoin undergoes isomerization to all-trans-retinoic acid. so just tretinoin.

retinoic acid binds to retinoic acid receptors and RXR (retinoid x receptors)

this directly changes the transcription of genes controlling cartilage maturation

look at this :
„Twenty 3-week-old male rats were randomly divided into a control group and an experimental group (n = 10). The experimental rats were treated by gavage with high-dose ATRA for 10 days. After this period, the experimental rats exhibited a lower body weight and shorter nasal-tail and radial tibial length than the controls. CYP26B1 enzyme activity in the liver was elevated, and histopathological staining revealed a narrowed cartilaginous epiphyseal plate, a sparse medullary cavity of trabecular bone, fewer trabecular bones, and advanced bone marrow mineralization. The circulating GH, IGF-I, and IGFBP3 levels decreased. The authors concluded that high-dose ATRA intake over a brief period reduces GH, IGF-I, and IGFBP3 levels, affects cartilage and bone homeostasis, and inhibits bone growth in developing animals ”

ATRA = all trans retinoic acid*

There is more. Study on humans :

„Karadag et al. studied the effect of isotretinoin on the GH-IGF-I axis in 47 patients (15–40 years) with acne. The therapy was initiated at a dose of 0.5–0.75 mg/kg/day and adjusted to 0.88 mg/kg/day as a maintenance dosage after 1 month. After 3 months of treatment, the IGF-I and IGFBP3 levels significantly decreased, while the mean basal GH levels did not change.”

„In another study of the same group of researchers including 105 patients with acne (14–42 years), the participants were divided into three groups based on the isotretinoin dose: 0.5–1.0 mg/kg/day (high dose—group 1), 0.2–0.5 mg/kg/day (low dose—group 2), and an intermittent 0.5–1.0 mg/kg/day only one week per month (intermittent dose—group 3). After 3 months of therapy, the isotretinoin significantly reduced the IGF-I and random GH levels in groups 1 and 2, and these effects were more pronounced in the high-dose group. The IGFBP3 levels were significantly reduced in all three groups, and the weakest effect was seen in the intermittent-dose group . The total testosterone and cortisol levels decreased, and the sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG) levels increased significantly in the three groups after therapy.”

look at this : „The total testosterone and cortisol levels decreased, and the sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG) levels increased significantly”


SO IT ALSO FUCKS WITH OTHER HORMONES.




View attachment 5167822

take a look at that for a little summary


doesnt stop here. take a look at this




View attachment 5167844



Now recently a clinical case of a boy suggests that elevated retinoic acid concentrations accelerate bone and dental maturation in humans.


„The patient was a 10-year-old prepubertal boy with retinal scarring, photophobia, autism spectrum disease, markedly advanced bone age, and accelerated dental development. He was born full term after an uncomplicated pregnancy and delivery, with a birth weight of 2.98 kg [−1.3 standard deviation score (SDS)] and birth length of 46 cm (−2.3 SDS). At the physical exam, he had pubic hair Tanner II, a testicular size of 3–4 mL bilaterally, and no gynecomastia. He presented with low serum vitamin A and elevated total and 13-cis-retinoc acid concentrations and a 3-year advance in bone age, which was advanced in relation to the chronological age without elevated estrogen levels. This syndrome was associated with a deletion on chromosome 10q23, which included the genes of the major retinoic acid-metabolizing enzymes”





okay enough of in vivo studies
i will just type out the mechanisms it fucks your puberty so you can understand it


It pushes chondros into hypertrophy faster so just less bone lengthening.
it also supresses chondrocyte proliferation.

The growth plate only has a finite number of proliferative chondrocytes. Anything that causes these cells to stop dividing or disappear faster will just accelerate growth plate aging. this is also called senescence


it increases mineralization and ossification so cartilage becomes bone faster. so growth potential is lost sooner.




there is more mechanisms in which isotret (accutane) will fuck you up. IDK AND IDC this is enough not to use it.




is there any solution? yes - topical anti androgens with low systemic absorption for the same use-case of isotret (acne)






View attachment 5167898



Stupid chatgpt
I am 17 and 2.5 months old is it okay to take or still too early
 
Dnr didnt stunt my growth, Im 6’4
 
Very true, I just think if you're taking accutane at a period in time where you're growing, you should be taking other shit regardless. High dose rhGH would mitigate almost all of these problems on its own. Erda would be even better
What is that? Wont it come with even worse. Side effects?
 
run hgh and have a cohesive estrogen protocol and dont overuse androgens. dont do it tho
I dont understand what is the need for this test stuff that makes you a little boy in a big body. Cant U just workout normally with some Peptides ?
 

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