Yes but it's like LL SURGERY. It's not some artificial shit like fillers, or implants it's literally her own bones grew because of the procedure. This can be stimulated to a lesser extent with mewing. Obviously the results will not even be 1% as good in the same timeframe but hard facepulling over months and years can yield some improvement
Sure if you look at them from profile view that may seem to be the case, but if you measure the mandible length (Co-Gn) the values would be very similar if not the same to their genetic potential. The mandible length seems to define how "heavy" a mandible looks, which is why female vs male class 2s can often look different (due to mandible length variation).
yes very simple to understand,thx
Whats the mean CO-GN length for an adult male?
According to this (there's probably a better sample somewhere else)
I am about 13cm but I am a class II interesting.
His mouth speaks wisdom
he says that even after 25 you can change but it will be very slow
He is an old ass man what do you want him to do? Bone declines faster then it grows at the moment you turn old. Man Look at him besides the full plate armour.
sure but my point is that he never achieved the upswing he keeps talking about
Idk man
he has always been a long faced recessed cuck, if mewing worked we all would have gotten results
He claims he looks better than 20 years ago lol, you can find his comment with before after pics in that Facebook group. He actually does look a bit better lmfao
lucky guy
How many mm of forward growth and lateral expansion were you able to gain? Any gains on the mandible and ramus?
I wish I measured my indicator line before and after. Right now it's around 42mm. Intermolar width has more or less remained constant at 34. My over jet was about 6mm now it is 2mm (normal) and overbite is 4mm (a bit more than normal). Massive changes to ramus and good changes to mandible.
How does one fix retrognathism of the lower jaw?
Correct
How much PSL did u getting from mewing and jutting? What PSL are u now?
detail the changes to your mandible and ramus? Any zygo changes?
Nonsurgical: Jutting
I'm not that familiar with the PSL scale
Larger ramus, better chin, taller mandible
Does this mog the nonsurgical way of jutting? Also is there one someone can do instead of a genio? I'd rather not have some foreign object in my body and would prefer to fix the root cause of this issue not a sympton.
use the normie scale then. 1-10
Do a sliding genioplasty if you're afraid of foreign material but you want a surgery, the sliding Genio mainly has titanium screws and plates (which will osseointegrate and moves your own chin point forward)
From 4 to 6.5
I don't believe you one bit. The entire looksmaxing community has tried improving their tongue posture yet most don't notice any difference.
Today is my last day on the forum for a while, so I'll explain
What is goniaal eversion?
where the masseter attaches to the ramus and pulls the bone down due to the piezoelectric effect
mastic gum and chewed fully
temporalis runs behind the arch and can push it out
whoa whoa you lost me there. What's the piezoelectric effect?
wdym by chewed fully.
To what extent can it push it out
muscle pull and pressure polarity affecting the shape of bone at the insertion points
Just chew and use most of your teeth, no need to overthink
The old guy has a big arch from muscle and fat loss from aging. The others are very lean. In theory the temporalis can push out the arch proportional to its size.
I strongly believe that the anterior surface is resorptive because the mandibular alveolus grows backwards in opposite direction to the maxillary alveolus. After all, as you say, this is the direction to which the ramus remodels too. This would allow the jaws to maintain occlusal integrity while the mandible keeps growing throughout one's life. I.e. the mandible would grow forward, and the mandibular teeth backward. Considering that the only passive force the mandibular arch is subject to is lip seal/cheek suction, such movement would make sense. In the process of moving backwards, the arch would also widen, allowing the gonions to spread outward and forward.
isn't he shrinking his jaw?
Yup the mandibular anterior alveolus has to resorb in order for chin development to occur as well (pretty much unique to humans). This is also one reason (the other is mesial drift) why you see "late mandibular crowding" in the incisors from ages 18-23 which only gets worse with age. The lower incisors from my understanding are the least stable teeth after orthodontic treatment, they will almost always recrowd very quickly unless they are retained. Many orthodontists put fixed retainers on the lower incisors for this very reason.
How much did it push out your zygos by?
So the bigger the temporalis the more it can project the zygo is what im getting? Correct me if I'm wrong. Also wdym his arch was big from muscle?
Ok so you said u experienced that right?
Should one use their incisors and canines while chewing? How long do u recommend chewing?
I'll miss u man you're one of the most high iq users here esp. when it comes to bones, muscles, how they interact and looking at this stuff scientifically?
Wish I measured before but my bizygomatic is now 145mm. My zygo arch went from mild prominence to good prominence (but obviously not god tier lol).
Yeah the problem is just that. The bone cells literally need to remove from one side and add themselves to the other side and this takes a very long time after 9, even longer after 12, much longer after puberty, and at a snail's pace after 25.
Muscle loss. Basically his muscles shrunk under the arch so it makes the arch look bigger
Temporalis, small correlation with palate width, a good correlation with testosterone
Use all your teeth when chewing, but don't bite into something too hard with incisors. Chew for maybe an hour a day with hard gum (or a couple hours with soft gum), just don't get TMJ or chipmunk cheeks.
Lol I'll miss you too. I have no idea how long I will be gone for. Just read Essentials of Facial Growth by Enlow and Hans, you'll realize none of this knowledge is unique. That book is the closest I've found to the Bible that explains all the different variations in the face, bone biology, how growth occurs, etc.
how can I avoid too bulky masseters (too much hypertrophy of the masseters) and chipmunk cheeks?
Just stop chewing if you see that beginning to happen
how long generally/on average does it take for the masseters to atrophy?
