Make mouth/lips wider : Commissuroplasty overview & Makeup options

[alurmo]

i have some glimmers, they're too vague to say, i save them, for example this thread was gonna be about something else entirely; what are you interested in?

In personally interested in stuff like
natural lifting
leanmaxxing
Jawmaxxing(im a ramuscel)
And iqmaxxing

 

[NZb6Air]

Jawmaxxing(im a ramuscel)

like surgery?

leanmaxxing

could say why it's hard and then drug options

iqmaxxing

this is not possible bro, although one of my ideas is to actually explain what's IQ, barely anyone knows what it actually is, it definitely relates to the blackpill in the fact NT = Normal range IQ + no mental illness and NT is 95% when looks are 5%, people don't actually realize it because most people are NT so it's not a factor to them and looks become 100%

 

[Jason Voorhees]

Mogger thread until I read the makeup part

 

[Jason Voorhees]

Wouldn't commissionplasty give keltoid scars?

 

[Rea]

Wouldn't commissionplasty give keltoid scars?

nigga weren't you a mod or smth

 

[NZb6Air]

Wouldn't commissionplasty give keltoid scars?

very unlikely, mouth area heals well compared to the rest of body, you'd have to be predisposed to them to have that risk

 

[Haseeb]

like surgery?

Obv no, make a thread on how to mew with the secret salludon technique

 

[Jason Voorhees]

very unlikely, mouth area heals well compared to the rest of body, you'd have to be predisposed to them to have that risk

I did research and it seems to be procedure only reserved for people with deformities. No good before and afters

 

[NZb6Air]

I did research and it seems to be procedure only reserved for people with deformities. No good before and afters

check eppley's blog for cosmetic b/a's

 

[NZb6Air]

I did research and it seems to be procedure only reserved for people with deformities. No good before and afters

You searched for Mouth Widening - Explore Plastic Surgery

 

[NZb6Air]

@RealSurgerymax

 

[truthhurts]

@Kaari consult the birds. We gotta make sure this thread get more attention

 

[Kaari]

@Kaari consult the birds. We gotta make sure this thread get more attention

I have a better idea in time.

This thread is not part of my master plan.

You’ll see soon.

 

[Jonas2k7]

Good thread

Wouldn't these surgeries leave any scars?

Is the optimal mouth width according to Leonardo Da Vinci right or are there any new aesthetic conclusions? What about mouth to nose ratio?

 

[NZb6Air]

What about mouth to nose ratio?

it's the last sentence in the thread

new aesthetic conclusions

 

[GreekGenes]

did read

 

[omnilegent]

18+ / Leanmaxxed Only

​

The mouth or lip width is the distance between the oral commissures.

Spoiler: Lip anatomy and terminology :

1 Philtrum
2 Philtral ridges/columns
3 Cupid’s bow
4 High points of the vermilion (bilateral)
5 White roll
6 Upper lip vermilion
7 Upper lip tubercle
8 Vermilion border (mucocutaneous junction)
9 Lower lip vermilion
10 Oral (labial) commissures
11 Nasolabial groove
12 Mentolabial groove

View attachment 3176634​

Obviously, this is to be considered only after having addressed your maxilla (projection & palate width¹), teeth normalization & lip tonicity. (it's all related)

FIRST LET'S GET THIS OUT OF THE WAY :
How to tell you need orthognathic and/or orthodontic work for your lips aesthetics

Lip Curvature :
Upper lip curvature (frontal view): the mid-philtrum height and bilateral oral commissure heights should be approximately equal in adults with the lips lightly in contact.

View attachment 3177487
For example :
A significantly shorter mid-philtrum height compared with commissure height in an adult result in upper lip line morphology referred to as an inverted arc.

View attachment 3177488View attachment 3177692
According to Dr.Naini :
The contour of the upper and lower lips at rest may resemble an inverted arc in a number of conditions, giving the patient the appearance of a frown:

1 - Maxillary or midfacial hypoplasia: The unintentionally aggressive appearance particularly common in ‘ Class III ’ patients is due to this inverted arc, secondary to maxillary hypoplasia. Management requires maxillary advancement.

2- Lowering/drooping of the oral commissures as a result of ageing: Management requires rhytidectomy (facelift).

Lip tonicity :

It refers to the muscular tone of the lips and it is easily predictable by the underlying jaw structure and, subsequently, teeth alignment.

For example :

Class 2 malocclusion will often lead to hyperactivity of the lower lip :

View attachment 3177547

A more severe class 2 will often lead to upper lip hypotonicity :

View attachment 3177552

Bimaxillary protrusion will often lead to limp or flaccid lips :

View attachment 3177653

Correction of the underlying deformity allows normal lip function and often results in the upper lip developing normal tonicity.

Upper lip height (long philtrumcels) :

View attachment 3177685

Don't forget that the skull is a 3D object and that includes lips so a projection and even CCW rotation of the maxilla would lower perceived upper lip height @Clavicular and expose more upper lip vermilion. However, it probably won't help your lip width since the crucial growth period has been missed. I'd need @RealSurgerymax opinion on this since he has actual experience with multipiece Lefort 1's.

With considerations to thick BBC upper lips which tend to be less indicative/more camouflaging of the underlying teeth and jaw structures, so get scans ig
View attachment 3177493




Now that we've ruled out dentofacial deformities which is the reason most of us are ugly , it is still possible to have bad lip width without any skeletal problem due to genetics (), aging or soft tissue asymmetry.

What's an ideal lip width?

This nigga da Vinci thinks it should align with IPD in a well proportioned face

View attachment 3177704View attachment 3177706

which is correct bro

View attachment 3177707View attachment 3177708View attachment 3177709
View attachment 3177719View attachment 3177722View attachment 3177733


What are the physiognomical advantages of an ideal lip width / Why bother ?

First of all it's a baby trait² and babyfacedness is negatively correlated with attractiveness, same logic as hollow cheeks : "Particular attention has been paid to facial features which distinguish infants from adults. " B a b y i s h " or infantile facial features include a high and protruding forehead, large eyes placed in the middle of the face, a small nose and mouth, and fat cheeks (Gardner & Wallach, 1965; Hess, 1970)."


i.e. the chérubin look is undesirable for adults, it's what makes us invisible (like actually this is the reason subhumans are invisible)
View attachment 3178365
"As Zebrowitz (1997) noted, ‘‘a baby’s face is disarming’’ (p.64). Decades of research have shown that baby-faced adults are perceived as being more warm, trustworthy, and innocent than mature-faced adults (for a review, see Zebrowitz, 1997). They are also treated with greater patience, sensitivity, and compassion. For example, studies have demonstrated that baby-faced offenders tend to receive more lenient sentences than mature-faced offenders for certain types of crimes (e.g., Berry & Zebrowitz-McArthur, 1988). Studies have also found that baby-faced individuals are more persuasive than mature-faced individuals when trustworthiness is uncertain (Brownlow, 1992), and that corporations with baby-faced spokespeople are trusted more than those with mature-faced spokespeople during a mild public-relations crisis (Gorn, Jiang, & Johar, 2008). However, there are costs to the tenderness that a baby face engenders. Like babies, baby-faced adults are perceived as being incompetent and weak. Consequently, research has suggested that babyfaceness may be a liability for people striving to attain high positions of leadership in government (Zebrowitz & Montepare, 2005) and industry (Rule & Ambady, 2008)."³
Which is fine if you're femboymaxxing I guess

Secondly, it is a sign of physical formidability which then links it to leadership, the current evolutionary hypothesis being that canine tooth size and ICW is positively correlated with a wider mouth and big dimorphic canines (thus mouth) correlate with male physical combat and dominance in primates ⁴˒⁵
View attachment 3177444
Indeed, mouth width positively correlates with perceived leadership ability and actual leadership performance in humans⁶

some cagefuel I stumbled upon in a study analyzing the Facial Anthropometric Data of Korean Pilots for Oxygen Mask Design and pilots mog civilians for some reason (they just look the part)⁷ @mug



Disproving the usual copes :

JUST GET MSE BRO, first of all, only a few orthos provide it ( https://www.moonmse.com/distributors-1 ), it's expensive af (quoted 16k USD by Dr. Sheri Salartash), it can fail and the expansion could be asymmetric with 0 evidence of it leading to an increase in lip width, let alone in adults unless you have some death tier palate width or go way overboard and bugsbunnymax like this nigga

View attachment 3178079


THEN JUST GET SARPE LOL : This is the GOAT Ramieri in person here :
View attachment 3178063


LIP DEVICE :

like @Angutoid 's

My New Mouth Widening Invention Without Smile Lines

So this is how it looks like: I could make it more complicated but i wanted it to cost less so every narrow mouthcel could benefit. Wear this overnight!!! You need 2 more things (1 if you don't care about smile lines) to use with this: A rubber band (Smaller the size more the pressure is)...

looksmax.org

or the ones displayed in @RecessedPrettyboy 's thread

Mouth Widening Appliances

Mouth Widening Appliance 3d models for 3d printing Now before someone asks How do I print it if I dont have a 3d printer? Just go to a 3d printing service store and print it. simple and shoudnt be expensive at all Here are the different sizes: 7cm: https://www.tinkercad.com/things/2ZfCaY9upiy...

looksmax.org

or FacialFlex's https://www.craniorehab.com/Facial-Flex-Adult-Microstomia-Prevention-Appliance.html

Well, first of all, none of them are arguing for their efficacy , so i'll try to play devil's advocate :

Potential argument 1 : Lip tribe bro

View attachment 3178292
Well that's what ends up happening :

View attachment 3178293
View attachment 3178294

Potential argument 2 : Facial Flex

Well that one is specifically designed to prevent and manage microstomia i.e. we're talking about scarring or fibrosis here (= for it not to relapse) not to expand normal healthy tissue @Pendejo

Potential argument 3 : Anecdotal

People believe many things like iris color changes due to a raw meat diet @slavicpsycho, carbohydrate abstinence leading to optical superpowers @Never Get Up , mewing to increase lefort 3 area projection but these are "relatively" harmless except Bonesmashing stop it bro @Zeta @Clavicular

A too strong or improper lip expansion session could cause damage to the delicate tissues of the lips, tearing of the fragile mucous membranes which could lead to infections, muscle strain which would cause chronic fatigue or spasms, nerve irritation, it could have an impact on the alignment of the teeth, the health of gums, etc. So many unkown and very undesirable consequences that simple anecdotes can't logically outweigh.

What the fuck to do then ?

Commissuroplasty
I'm sure you're already vaguely familiar with this procedure, the main goal of this procedure is to maintain lip competence, it's a very quick and effective surgery though : it doesn't need complexe techniques.

You can do it in 2 ways⁸ :
The simplest being : Buccal mucosal advancement


The alternative being : Myomucosal advancement flap


OK BRO but who tf performs it bro even and how much ?
SPAIN : https://mallorcamedicalgroup.com/en/procedures/plastic-surgery/facial-surgery/comisuroplasty/
Price : 1k€ to 2k€
TEXAS : https://planoplasticsurgery.com/lip-commissuroplasty/
Price : Get a quote yourself lil bro
I know Eppley used to perform it, he wrote on it extensively on his blog but he stopped doing it, he would be charging 800k USD anyway

Makeup
I couldn't find any makeup tutorial that does this specifically, JFL at foids btw, muh looksmax gender, they always just increase lip vertical size like some retards actual

Just imagine for me that you're doing a commissuroplasty but with makeup
You're gonna need first concelear for two reasons :
1- to blur the actual natural edges of your mouth
2- to create a fake new vermillion border

An eyeshadow brush :
to blend-in the concealer

Lip liner :
You're gonna overline your lips slightly past the natural commissure and extend the line just beyoned the natural edge but don't do overdo it to avoid pufferfishmaxxing

Lipstick as cherry chapstick wouldn't be able to fill :
You're gonna fill in your newly accquired vermillion with a matching lipstick, matte lipstick would work better since it'll make it look sharper, you want lighter in the center and darker in the outer corners to give a gradient effect, that will enhance the width visually, you'll understand easily if you have any drawing/coloring background

Optional : Highlighter on the cupid's bow and just below the upper lip to draw the attention to the center en enhance that gradient effect.
Contouring to further accentuate the shadow you setup with the concealer

Follow some "HOW TO GET BIGGER LIPS" tutorials on youtube to get the gist but only apply it to lateral commissures since they all jsut increase the height of the vermillions.

OR Moustache obviously :





¹Stephan, C.N., & Henneberg, M. (2003). Predicting mouth width from inter-canine width — a 75% rule. Journal of Forensic Sciences, 48, 725–727.
²Hildebrandt, K.A., & Fitzgerald, H.E. (1979). Facial feature determinants of perceived infant attractiveness. Infant Behavior & Development, 2, 329–339.
³Livingston, R.W., & Pearce, N.A. (2009). The teddy-bear effect does having a baby face benefit black chief executive officers? Psychological Science, 20, 1229–1236.
⁴Harvey, P.H., Kavanagh, M., & Clutton-Brock, T.H. (1978). Sexual dimorphism in primate teeth. Journal of Zoology, 186, 475–485.
⁵Plavcan, J.M., & van Schaik, C.P. (1992). Intrasexual competition and canine dimorphism in anthropoid primates. American Journal of Physical Anthropology, 87, 461–477.
⁶Re, D. E., & Rule, N. O. (2016). The big man has a big mouth: Mouth width correlates with perceived leadership ability and actual leadership performance.
⁷https://www.researchgate.net/public..._Data_of_Korean_Pilots_for_Oxygen_Mask_Design
⁸Parsel, S. M., & Winters, R. D. (2020). Commissuroplasty. Operative Techniques in Otolaryngology, 31(1), 33–37.

Spoiler: Tags

@Clavicular @Alexanderr @TechnoBoss @Jason Voorhees @truthhurts @greycel @sb23 @Haseeb @truthhurts @PeakIncels @UZB_Strebl @MA_ascender @SubhumanForever @kaligula567 @enchanted_elixir @Blackgymmax @Rea @HarrierDuBois

Quick edit : the 1.6 with alar base is a shit measurement for ideal lip width cause ala size isn't a key feature in aesthetic cause then you would just get alarplasty with a shit mouth width but that will look like pure dogshit

Very high IQ thread now I need moneyy

 

[sb23]

I have tall narrow lips. Actually over. I’m DIYing this surgery.

 

[noahwillascend]

It’s time to realise people need to take the Makuppill

 

[NZb6Air]

It’s time to realise people need to take the Makuppill

surprisingly unpopular take on looksmax dot org

 

[noahwillascend]

surprisingly unpopular take on looksmax dot org

if your wearing makeup, as long as it’s not too faggy, to look better, it’s totally worth it.
like if u want to hide some rosacea / under eye discolouration a slight makeup literally fixes all your problems and it’s not costly at all.

makeuppill is the way.
just don’t make it faggy!!

 

[noahwillascend]

if your wearing makeup, as long as it’s not too faggy, to look better, it’s totally worth it.
like if u want to hide some rosacea / under eye discolouration a slight makeup literally fixes all your problems and it’s not costly at all.

makeuppill is the way.
just don’t make it faggy!!

people also forget your favourite models who walk the runway / shoot wear makeup
and actors as welll
basically everyone you’ve seen wears some sort of makeup

 

[NZb6Air]

people also forget your favourite models who walk the runway / shoot wear makeup
and actors as welll
basically everyone you’ve seen wears some sort of makeup

Yes, if you're actually about looksmaxxing and not just hive minding for frens, you will soon realize every single mogger etc is caked up to the max and frauding @Amnesia and @Clavicular realized it, the people who claim it's faggy etc (which is retarded since unless you make it flamboyantly drag, there's no way you can tell) haven't contributed to anything basically -- no pics, no ideas ..

 

[noahwillascend]

Yes, if you're actually about looksmaxxing and not just hive minding for frens, you will soon realize every single mogger etc is caked up to the max and frauding @Amnesia and @Clavicular realized it, the people who claim it's faggy etc (which is retarded since unless you make it flamboyantly drag, there's no way you can tell) haven't contributed to anything basically -- no pics, no ideas ..

im one of the few who’s realised this and have invested in some make up, concealers etc

 

[Clavicular]

Yes, if you're actually about looksmaxxing and not just hive minding for frens, you will soon realize every single mogger etc is caked up to the max and frauding @Amnesia and @Clavicular realized it, the people who claim it's faggy etc (which is retarded since unless you make it flamboyantly drag, there's no way you can tell) haven't contributed to anything basically -- no pics, no ideas ..

Miring ur high iq op keep up the good work

 

[antony 726]

18+ / Leanmaxxed Only

​

The mouth or lip width is the distance between the oral commissures.

Spoiler: Lip anatomy and terminology :

1 Philtrum
2 Philtral ridges/columns
3 Cupid’s bow
4 High points of the vermilion (bilateral)
5 White roll
6 Upper lip vermilion
7 Upper lip tubercle
8 Vermilion border (mucocutaneous junction)
9 Lower lip vermilion
10 Oral (labial) commissures
11 Nasolabial groove
12 Mentolabial groove

View attachment 3176634​

Obviously, this is to be considered only after having addressed your maxilla (projection & palate width¹), teeth normalization & lip tonicity. (it's all related)

FIRST LET'S GET THIS OUT OF THE WAY :
How to tell you need orthognathic and/or orthodontic work for your lips aesthetics

Lip Curvature :
Upper lip curvature (frontal view): the mid-philtrum height and bilateral oral commissure heights should be approximately equal in adults with the lips lightly in contact.

View attachment 3177487
For example :
A significantly shorter mid-philtrum height compared with commissure height in an adult result in upper lip line morphology referred to as an inverted arc.

View attachment 3177488View attachment 3177692
According to Dr.Naini :
The contour of the upper and lower lips at rest may resemble an inverted arc in a number of conditions, giving the patient the appearance of a frown:

1 - Maxillary or midfacial hypoplasia: The unintentionally aggressive appearance particularly common in ‘ Class III ’ patients is due to this inverted arc, secondary to maxillary hypoplasia. Management requires maxillary advancement.

2- Lowering/drooping of the oral commissures as a result of ageing: Management requires rhytidectomy (facelift).

Lip tonicity :

It refers to the muscular tone of the lips and it is easily predictable by the underlying jaw structure and, subsequently, teeth alignment.

For example :

Class 2 malocclusion will often lead to hyperactivity of the lower lip :

View attachment 3177547

A more severe class 2 will often lead to upper lip hypotonicity :

View attachment 3177552

Bimaxillary protrusion will often lead to limp or flaccid lips :

View attachment 3177653

Correction of the underlying deformity allows normal lip function and often results in the upper lip developing normal tonicity.

Upper lip height (long philtrumcels) :

View attachment 3177685

Don't forget that the skull is a 3D object and that includes lips so a projection and even CCW rotation of the maxilla would lower perceived upper lip height @Clavicular and expose more upper lip vermilion. However, it probably won't help your lip width since the crucial growth period has been missed. I'd need @RealSurgerymax opinion on this since he has actual experience with multipiece Lefort 1's.

With considerations to thick BBC upper lips which tend to be less indicative/more camouflaging of the underlying teeth and jaw structures, so get scans ig
View attachment 3177493




Now that we've ruled out dentofacial deformities which is the reason most of us are ugly , it is still possible to have bad lip width without any skeletal problem due to genetics (), aging or soft tissue asymmetry.

What's an ideal lip width?

This nigga da Vinci thinks it should align with IPD in a well proportioned face

View attachment 3177704View attachment 3177706

which is correct bro

View attachment 3177707View attachment 3177708View attachment 3177709
View attachment 3177719View attachment 3177722View attachment 3177733


What are the physiognomical advantages of an ideal lip width / Why bother ?

First of all it's a baby trait² and babyfacedness is negatively correlated with attractiveness, same logic as hollow cheeks : "Particular attention has been paid to facial features which distinguish infants from adults. " B a b y i s h " or infantile facial features include a high and protruding forehead, large eyes placed in the middle of the face, a small nose and mouth, and fat cheeks (Gardner & Wallach, 1965; Hess, 1970)."


i.e. the chérubin look is undesirable for adults, it's what makes us invisible (like actually this is the reason subhumans are invisible)
View attachment 3178365
"As Zebrowitz (1997) noted, ‘‘a baby’s face is disarming’’ (p.64). Decades of research have shown that baby-faced adults are perceived as being more warm, trustworthy, and innocent than mature-faced adults (for a review, see Zebrowitz, 1997). They are also treated with greater patience, sensitivity, and compassion. For example, studies have demonstrated that baby-faced offenders tend to receive more lenient sentences than mature-faced offenders for certain types of crimes (e.g., Berry & Zebrowitz-McArthur, 1988). Studies have also found that baby-faced individuals are more persuasive than mature-faced individuals when trustworthiness is uncertain (Brownlow, 1992), and that corporations with baby-faced spokespeople are trusted more than those with mature-faced spokespeople during a mild public-relations crisis (Gorn, Jiang, & Johar, 2008). However, there are costs to the tenderness that a baby face engenders. Like babies, baby-faced adults are perceived as being incompetent and weak. Consequently, research has suggested that babyfaceness may be a liability for people striving to attain high positions of leadership in government (Zebrowitz & Montepare, 2005) and industry (Rule & Ambady, 2008)."³
Which is fine if you're femboymaxxing I guess

Secondly, it is a sign of physical formidability which then links it to leadership, the current evolutionary hypothesis being that canine tooth size and ICW is positively correlated with a wider mouth and big dimorphic canines (thus mouth) correlate with male physical combat and dominance in primates ⁴˒⁵
View attachment 3177444
Indeed, mouth width positively correlates with perceived leadership ability and actual leadership performance in humans⁶

some cagefuel I stumbled upon in a study analyzing the Facial Anthropometric Data of Korean Pilots for Oxygen Mask Design and pilots mog civilians for some reason (they just look the part)⁷ @mug



Disproving the usual copes :

JUST GET MSE BRO, first of all, only a few orthos provide it ( https://www.moonmse.com/distributors-1 ), it's expensive af (quoted 16k USD by Dr. Sheri Salartash), it can fail and the expansion could be asymmetric with 0 evidence of it leading to an increase in lip width, let alone in adults unless you have some death tier palate width or go way overboard and bugsbunnymax like this nigga

View attachment 3178079


THEN JUST GET SARPE LOL : This is the GOAT Ramieri in person here :
View attachment 3178063


LIP DEVICE :

like @Angutoid 's

My New Mouth Widening Invention Without Smile Lines

So this is how it looks like: I could make it more complicated but i wanted it to cost less so every narrow mouthcel could benefit. Wear this overnight!!! You need 2 more things (1 if you don't care about smile lines) to use with this: A rubber band (Smaller the size more the pressure is)...

looksmax.org

or the ones displayed in @RecessedPrettyboy 's thread

Mouth Widening Appliances

Mouth Widening Appliance 3d models for 3d printing Now before someone asks How do I print it if I dont have a 3d printer? Just go to a 3d printing service store and print it. simple and shoudnt be expensive at all Here are the different sizes: 7cm: https://www.tinkercad.com/things/2ZfCaY9upiy...

looksmax.org

or FacialFlex's https://www.craniorehab.com/Facial-Flex-Adult-Microstomia-Prevention-Appliance.html

Well, first of all, none of them are arguing for their efficacy , so i'll try to play devil's advocate :

Potential argument 1 : Lip tribe bro

View attachment 3178292
Well that's what ends up happening :

View attachment 3178293
View attachment 3178294

Potential argument 2 : Facial Flex

Well that one is specifically designed to prevent and manage microstomia i.e. we're talking about scarring or fibrosis here (= for it not to relapse) not to expand normal healthy tissue @Pendejo

Potential argument 3 : Anecdotal

People believe many things like iris color changes due to a raw meat diet @slavicpsycho, carbohydrate abstinence leading to optical superpowers @Never Get Up , mewing to increase lefort 3 area projection but these are "relatively" harmless except Bonesmashing stop it bro @Zeta @Clavicular

A too strong or improper lip expansion session could cause damage to the delicate tissues of the lips, tearing of the fragile mucous membranes which could lead to infections, muscle strain which would cause chronic fatigue or spasms, nerve irritation, it could have an impact on the alignment of the teeth, the health of gums, etc. So many unkown and very undesirable consequences that simple anecdotes can't logically outweigh.

What the fuck to do then ?

Commissuroplasty
I'm sure you're already vaguely familiar with this procedure, the main goal of this procedure is to maintain lip competence, it's a very quick and effective surgery though : it doesn't need complexe techniques.

You can do it in 2 ways⁸ :
The simplest being : Buccal mucosal advancement


The alternative being : Myomucosal advancement flap


OK BRO but who tf performs it bro even and how much ?
SPAIN : https://mallorcamedicalgroup.com/en/procedures/plastic-surgery/facial-surgery/comisuroplasty/
Price : 1k€ to 2k€
TEXAS : https://planoplasticsurgery.com/lip-commissuroplasty/
Price : Get a quote yourself lil bro
I know Eppley used to perform it, he wrote on it extensively on his blog but he stopped doing it, he would be charging 800k USD anyway

Makeup
I couldn't find any makeup tutorial that does this specifically, JFL at foids btw, muh looksmax gender, they always just increase lip vertical size like some retards actual

Just imagine for me that you're doing a commissuroplasty but with makeup
You're gonna need first concelear for two reasons :
1- to blur the actual natural edges of your mouth
2- to create a fake new vermillion border

An eyeshadow brush :
to blend-in the concealer

Lip liner :
You're gonna overline your lips slightly past the natural commissure and extend the line just beyoned the natural edge but don't do overdo it to avoid pufferfishmaxxing

Lipstick as cherry chapstick wouldn't be able to fill :
You're gonna fill in your newly accquired vermillion with a matching lipstick, matte lipstick would work better since it'll make it look sharper, you want lighter in the center and darker in the outer corners to give a gradient effect, that will enhance the width visually, you'll understand easily if you have any drawing/coloring background

Optional : Highlighter on the cupid's bow and just below the upper lip to draw the attention to the center en enhance that gradient effect.
Contouring to further accentuate the shadow you setup with the concealer

Follow some "HOW TO GET BIGGER LIPS" tutorials on youtube to get the gist but only apply it to lateral commissures since they all jsut increase the height of the vermillions.

OR Moustache obviously :





¹Stephan, C.N., & Henneberg, M. (2003). Predicting mouth width from inter-canine width — a 75% rule. Journal of Forensic Sciences, 48, 725–727.
²Hildebrandt, K.A., & Fitzgerald, H.E. (1979). Facial feature determinants of perceived infant attractiveness. Infant Behavior & Development, 2, 329–339.
³Livingston, R.W., & Pearce, N.A. (2009). The teddy-bear effect does having a baby face benefit black chief executive officers? Psychological Science, 20, 1229–1236.
⁴Harvey, P.H., Kavanagh, M., & Clutton-Brock, T.H. (1978). Sexual dimorphism in primate teeth. Journal of Zoology, 186, 475–485.
⁵Plavcan, J.M., & van Schaik, C.P. (1992). Intrasexual competition and canine dimorphism in anthropoid primates. American Journal of Physical Anthropology, 87, 461–477.
⁶Re, D. E., & Rule, N. O. (2016). The big man has a big mouth: Mouth width correlates with perceived leadership ability and actual leadership performance.
⁷https://www.researchgate.net/public..._Data_of_Korean_Pilots_for_Oxygen_Mask_Design
⁸Parsel, S. M., & Winters, R. D. (2020). Commissuroplasty. Operative Techniques in Otolaryngology, 31(1), 33–37.

Spoiler: Tags

@Clavicular @Alexanderr @TechnoBoss @Jason Voorhees @truthhurts @greycel @sb23 @Haseeb @truthhurts @PeakIncels @UZB_Strebl @MA_ascender @SubhumanForever @kaligula567 @enchanted_elixir @Blackgymmax @Rea @HarrierDuBois

Quick edit : the 1.6 with alar base is a shit measurement for ideal lip width cause ala size isn't a key feature in aesthetic cause then you would just get alarplasty with a shit mouth width but that will look like pure dogshit

Does geting a lip lift make the lips narrow v

 

[vrt]

18+ / Leanmaxxed Only

​

The mouth or lip width is the distance between the oral commissures.

Spoiler: Lip anatomy and terminology :

1 Philtrum
2 Philtral ridges/columns
3 Cupid’s bow
4 High points of the vermilion (bilateral)
5 White roll
6 Upper lip vermilion
7 Upper lip tubercle
8 Vermilion border (mucocutaneous junction)
9 Lower lip vermilion
10 Oral (labial) commissures
11 Nasolabial groove
12 Mentolabial groove

View attachment 3176634​

Obviously, this is to be considered only after having addressed your maxilla (projection & palate width¹), teeth normalization & lip tonicity. (it's all related)

FIRST LET'S GET THIS OUT OF THE WAY :
How to tell you need orthognathic and/or orthodontic work for your lips aesthetics

Lip Curvature :
Upper lip curvature (frontal view): the mid-philtrum height and bilateral oral commissure heights should be approximately equal in adults with the lips lightly in contact.

View attachment 3177487
For example :
A significantly shorter mid-philtrum height compared with commissure height in an adult result in upper lip line morphology referred to as an inverted arc.

View attachment 3177488View attachment 3177692
According to Dr.Naini :
The contour of the upper and lower lips at rest may resemble an inverted arc in a number of conditions, giving the patient the appearance of a frown:

1 - Maxillary or midfacial hypoplasia: The unintentionally aggressive appearance particularly common in ‘ Class III ’ patients is due to this inverted arc, secondary to maxillary hypoplasia. Management requires maxillary advancement.

2- Lowering/drooping of the oral commissures as a result of ageing: Management requires rhytidectomy (facelift).

Lip tonicity :

It refers to the muscular tone of the lips and it is easily predictable by the underlying jaw structure and, subsequently, teeth alignment.

For example :

Class 2 malocclusion will often lead to hyperactivity of the lower lip :

View attachment 3177547

A more severe class 2 will often lead to upper lip hypotonicity :

View attachment 3177552

Bimaxillary protrusion will often lead to limp or flaccid lips :

View attachment 3177653

Correction of the underlying deformity allows normal lip function and often results in the upper lip developing normal tonicity.

Upper lip height (long philtrumcels) :

View attachment 3177685

Don't forget that the skull is a 3D object and that includes lips so a projection and even CCW rotation of the maxilla would lower perceived upper lip height @Clavicular and expose more upper lip vermilion. However, it probably won't help your lip width since the crucial growth period has been missed. I'd need @RealSurgerymax opinion on this since he has actual experience with multipiece Lefort 1's.

With considerations to thick BBC upper lips which tend to be less indicative/more camouflaging of the underlying teeth and jaw structures, so get scans ig
View attachment 3177493




Now that we've ruled out dentofacial deformities which is the reason most of us are ugly , it is still possible to have bad lip width without any skeletal problem due to genetics (), aging or soft tissue asymmetry.

What's an ideal lip width?

This nigga da Vinci thinks it should align with IPD in a well proportioned face

View attachment 3177704View attachment 3177706

which is correct bro

View attachment 3177707View attachment 3177708View attachment 3177709
View attachment 3177719View attachment 3177722View attachment 3177733


What are the physiognomical advantages of an ideal lip width / Why bother ?

First of all it's a baby trait² and babyfacedness is negatively correlated with attractiveness, same logic as hollow cheeks : "Particular attention has been paid to facial features which distinguish infants from adults. " B a b y i s h " or infantile facial features include a high and protruding forehead, large eyes placed in the middle of the face, a small nose and mouth, and fat cheeks (Gardner & Wallach, 1965; Hess, 1970)."


i.e. the chérubin look is undesirable for adults, it's what makes us invisible (like actually this is the reason subhumans are invisible)
View attachment 3178365
"As Zebrowitz (1997) noted, ‘‘a baby’s face is disarming’’ (p.64). Decades of research have shown that baby-faced adults are perceived as being more warm, trustworthy, and innocent than mature-faced adults (for a review, see Zebrowitz, 1997). They are also treated with greater patience, sensitivity, and compassion. For example, studies have demonstrated that baby-faced offenders tend to receive more lenient sentences than mature-faced offenders for certain types of crimes (e.g., Berry & Zebrowitz-McArthur, 1988). Studies have also found that baby-faced individuals are more persuasive than mature-faced individuals when trustworthiness is uncertain (Brownlow, 1992), and that corporations with baby-faced spokespeople are trusted more than those with mature-faced spokespeople during a mild public-relations crisis (Gorn, Jiang, & Johar, 2008). However, there are costs to the tenderness that a baby face engenders. Like babies, baby-faced adults are perceived as being incompetent and weak. Consequently, research has suggested that babyfaceness may be a liability for people striving to attain high positions of leadership in government (Zebrowitz & Montepare, 2005) and industry (Rule & Ambady, 2008)."³
Which is fine if you're femboymaxxing I guess

Secondly, it is a sign of physical formidability which then links it to leadership, the current evolutionary hypothesis being that canine tooth size and ICW is positively correlated with a wider mouth and big dimorphic canines (thus mouth) correlate with male physical combat and dominance in primates ⁴˒⁵
View attachment 3177444
Indeed, mouth width positively correlates with perceived leadership ability and actual leadership performance in humans⁶

some cagefuel I stumbled upon in a study analyzing the Facial Anthropometric Data of Korean Pilots for Oxygen Mask Design and pilots mog civilians for some reason (they just look the part)⁷ @mug



Disproving the usual copes :

JUST GET MSE BRO, first of all, only a few orthos provide it ( https://www.moonmse.com/distributors-1 ), it's expensive af (quoted 16k USD by Dr. Sheri Salartash), it can fail and the expansion could be asymmetric with 0 evidence of it leading to an increase in lip width, let alone in adults unless you have some death tier palate width or go way overboard and bugsbunnymax like this nigga

View attachment 3178079


THEN JUST GET SARPE LOL : This is the GOAT Ramieri in person here :
View attachment 3178063


LIP DEVICE :

like @Angutoid 's

My New Mouth Widening Invention Without Smile Lines

So this is how it looks like: I could make it more complicated but i wanted it to cost less so every narrow mouthcel could benefit. Wear this overnight!!! You need 2 more things (1 if you don't care about smile lines) to use with this: A rubber band (Smaller the size more the pressure is)...

looksmax.org

or the ones displayed in @RecessedPrettyboy 's thread

Mouth Widening Appliances

Mouth Widening Appliance 3d models for 3d printing Now before someone asks How do I print it if I dont have a 3d printer? Just go to a 3d printing service store and print it. simple and shoudnt be expensive at all Here are the different sizes: 7cm: https://www.tinkercad.com/things/2ZfCaY9upiy...

looksmax.org

or FacialFlex's https://www.craniorehab.com/Facial-Flex-Adult-Microstomia-Prevention-Appliance.html

Well, first of all, none of them are arguing for their efficacy , so i'll try to play devil's advocate :

Potential argument 1 : Lip tribe bro

View attachment 3178292
Well that's what ends up happening :

View attachment 3178293
View attachment 3178294

Potential argument 2 : Facial Flex

Well that one is specifically designed to prevent and manage microstomia i.e. we're talking about scarring or fibrosis here (= for it not to relapse) not to expand normal healthy tissue @Pendejo

Potential argument 3 : Anecdotal

People believe many things like iris color changes due to a raw meat diet @slavicpsycho, carbohydrate abstinence leading to optical superpowers @Never Get Up , mewing to increase lefort 3 area projection but these are "relatively" harmless except Bonesmashing stop it bro @Zeta @Clavicular

A too strong or improper lip expansion session could cause damage to the delicate tissues of the lips, tearing of the fragile mucous membranes which could lead to infections, muscle strain which would cause chronic fatigue or spasms, nerve irritation, it could have an impact on the alignment of the teeth, the health of gums, etc. So many unkown and very undesirable consequences that simple anecdotes can't logically outweigh.

What the fuck to do then ?

Commissuroplasty
I'm sure you're already vaguely familiar with this procedure, the main goal of this procedure is to maintain lip competence, it's a very quick and effective surgery though : it doesn't need complexe techniques.

You can do it in 2 ways⁸ :
The simplest being : Buccal mucosal advancement


The alternative being : Myomucosal advancement flap


OK BRO but who tf performs it bro even and how much ?
SPAIN : https://mallorcamedicalgroup.com/en/procedures/plastic-surgery/facial-surgery/comisuroplasty/
Price : 1k€ to 2k€
TEXAS : https://planoplasticsurgery.com/lip-commissuroplasty/
Price : Get a quote yourself lil bro
I know Eppley used to perform it, he wrote on it extensively on his blog but he stopped doing it, he would be charging 800k USD anyway

Makeup
I couldn't find any makeup tutorial that does this specifically, JFL at foids btw, muh looksmax gender, they always just increase lip vertical size like some retards actual

Just imagine for me that you're doing a commissuroplasty but with makeup
You're gonna need first concelear for two reasons :
1- to blur the actual natural edges of your mouth
2- to create a fake new vermillion border

An eyeshadow brush :
to blend-in the concealer

Lip liner :
You're gonna overline your lips slightly past the natural commissure and extend the line just beyoned the natural edge but don't do overdo it to avoid pufferfishmaxxing

Lipstick as cherry chapstick wouldn't be able to fill :
You're gonna fill in your newly accquired vermillion with a matching lipstick, matte lipstick would work better since it'll make it look sharper, you want lighter in the center and darker in the outer corners to give a gradient effect, that will enhance the width visually, you'll understand easily if you have any drawing/coloring background

Optional : Highlighter on the cupid's bow and just below the upper lip to draw the attention to the center en enhance that gradient effect.
Contouring to further accentuate the shadow you setup with the concealer

Follow some "HOW TO GET BIGGER LIPS" tutorials on youtube to get the gist but only apply it to lateral commissures since they all jsut increase the height of the vermillions.

OR Moustache obviously :





¹Stephan, C.N., & Henneberg, M. (2003). Predicting mouth width from inter-canine width — a 75% rule. Journal of Forensic Sciences, 48, 725–727.
²Hildebrandt, K.A., & Fitzgerald, H.E. (1979). Facial feature determinants of perceived infant attractiveness. Infant Behavior & Development, 2, 329–339.
³Livingston, R.W., & Pearce, N.A. (2009). The teddy-bear effect does having a baby face benefit black chief executive officers? Psychological Science, 20, 1229–1236.
⁴Harvey, P.H., Kavanagh, M., & Clutton-Brock, T.H. (1978). Sexual dimorphism in primate teeth. Journal of Zoology, 186, 475–485.
⁵Plavcan, J.M., & van Schaik, C.P. (1992). Intrasexual competition and canine dimorphism in anthropoid primates. American Journal of Physical Anthropology, 87, 461–477.
⁶Re, D. E., & Rule, N. O. (2016). The big man has a big mouth: Mouth width correlates with perceived leadership ability and actual leadership performance.
⁷https://www.researchgate.net/public..._Data_of_Korean_Pilots_for_Oxygen_Mask_Design
⁸Parsel, S. M., & Winters, R. D. (2020). Commissuroplasty. Operative Techniques in Otolaryngology, 31(1), 33–37.

Spoiler: Tags

@Clavicular @Alexanderr @TechnoBoss @Jason Voorhees @truthhurts @greycel @sb23 @Haseeb @truthhurts @PeakIncels @UZB_Strebl @MA_ascender @SubhumanForever @kaligula567 @enchanted_elixir @Blackgymmax @Rea @HarrierDuBois

Quick edit : the 1.6 with alar base is a shit measurement for ideal lip width cause ala size isn't a key feature in aesthetic cause then you would just get alarplasty with a shit mouth width but that will look like pure dogshit

we getting it done one day

 

[Rigged]

18+ / Leanmaxxed Only

​

The mouth or lip width is the distance between the oral commissures.

Spoiler: Lip anatomy and terminology :

1 Philtrum
2 Philtral ridges/columns
3 Cupid’s bow
4 High points of the vermilion (bilateral)
5 White roll
6 Upper lip vermilion
7 Upper lip tubercle
8 Vermilion border (mucocutaneous junction)
9 Lower lip vermilion
10 Oral (labial) commissures
11 Nasolabial groove
12 Mentolabial groove

View attachment 3176634​

Obviously, this is to be considered only after having addressed your maxilla (projection & palate width¹), teeth normalization & lip tonicity. (it's all related)

FIRST LET'S GET THIS OUT OF THE WAY :
How to tell you need orthognathic and/or orthodontic work for your lips aesthetics

Lip Curvature :
Upper lip curvature (frontal view): the mid-philtrum height and bilateral oral commissure heights should be approximately equal in adults with the lips lightly in contact.

View attachment 3177487
For example :
A significantly shorter mid-philtrum height compared with commissure height in an adult result in upper lip line morphology referred to as an inverted arc.

View attachment 3177488View attachment 3177692
According to Dr.Naini :
The contour of the upper and lower lips at rest may resemble an inverted arc in a number of conditions, giving the patient the appearance of a frown:

1 - Maxillary or midfacial hypoplasia: The unintentionally aggressive appearance particularly common in ‘ Class III ’ patients is due to this inverted arc, secondary to maxillary hypoplasia. Management requires maxillary advancement.

2- Lowering/drooping of the oral commissures as a result of ageing: Management requires rhytidectomy (facelift).

Lip tonicity :

It refers to the muscular tone of the lips and it is easily predictable by the underlying jaw structure and, subsequently, teeth alignment.

For example :

Class 2 malocclusion will often lead to hyperactivity of the lower lip :

View attachment 3177547

A more severe class 2 will often lead to upper lip hypotonicity :

View attachment 3177552

Bimaxillary protrusion will often lead to limp or flaccid lips :

View attachment 3177653

Correction of the underlying deformity allows normal lip function and often results in the upper lip developing normal tonicity.

Upper lip height (long philtrumcels) :

View attachment 3177685

Don't forget that the skull is a 3D object and that includes lips so a projection and even CCW rotation of the maxilla would lower perceived upper lip height @Clavicular and expose more upper lip vermilion. However, it probably won't help your lip width since the crucial growth period has been missed. I'd need @RealSurgerymax opinion on this since he has actual experience with multipiece Lefort 1's.

With considerations to thick BBC upper lips which tend to be less indicative/more camouflaging of the underlying teeth and jaw structures, so get scans ig
View attachment 3177493




Now that we've ruled out dentofacial deformities which is the reason most of us are ugly , it is still possible to have bad lip width without any skeletal problem due to genetics (), aging or soft tissue asymmetry.

What's an ideal lip width?

This nigga da Vinci thinks it should align with IPD in a well proportioned face

View attachment 3177704View attachment 3177706

which is correct bro

View attachment 3177707View attachment 3177708View attachment 3177709
View attachment 3177719View attachment 3177722View attachment 3177733


What are the physiognomical advantages of an ideal lip width / Why bother ?

First of all it's a baby trait² and babyfacedness is negatively correlated with attractiveness, same logic as hollow cheeks : "Particular attention has been paid to facial features which distinguish infants from adults. " B a b y i s h " or infantile facial features include a high and protruding forehead, large eyes placed in the middle of the face, a small nose and mouth, and fat cheeks (Gardner & Wallach, 1965; Hess, 1970)."


i.e. the chérubin look is undesirable for adults, it's what makes us invisible (like actually this is the reason subhumans are invisible)
View attachment 3178365
"As Zebrowitz (1997) noted, ‘‘a baby’s face is disarming’’ (p.64). Decades of research have shown that baby-faced adults are perceived as being more warm, trustworthy, and innocent than mature-faced adults (for a review, see Zebrowitz, 1997). They are also treated with greater patience, sensitivity, and compassion. For example, studies have demonstrated that baby-faced offenders tend to receive more lenient sentences than mature-faced offenders for certain types of crimes (e.g., Berry & Zebrowitz-McArthur, 1988). Studies have also found that baby-faced individuals are more persuasive than mature-faced individuals when trustworthiness is uncertain (Brownlow, 1992), and that corporations with baby-faced spokespeople are trusted more than those with mature-faced spokespeople during a mild public-relations crisis (Gorn, Jiang, & Johar, 2008). However, there are costs to the tenderness that a baby face engenders. Like babies, baby-faced adults are perceived as being incompetent and weak. Consequently, research has suggested that babyfaceness may be a liability for people striving to attain high positions of leadership in government (Zebrowitz & Montepare, 2005) and industry (Rule & Ambady, 2008)."³
Which is fine if you're femboymaxxing I guess

Secondly, it is a sign of physical formidability which then links it to leadership, the current evolutionary hypothesis being that canine tooth size and ICW is positively correlated with a wider mouth and big dimorphic canines (thus mouth) correlate with male physical combat and dominance in primates ⁴˒⁵
View attachment 3177444
Indeed, mouth width positively correlates with perceived leadership ability and actual leadership performance in humans⁶

some cagefuel I stumbled upon in a study analyzing the Facial Anthropometric Data of Korean Pilots for Oxygen Mask Design and pilots mog civilians for some reason (they just look the part)⁷ @mug



Disproving the usual copes :

JUST GET MSE BRO, first of all, only a few orthos provide it ( https://www.moonmse.com/distributors-1 ), it's expensive af (quoted 16k USD by Dr. Sheri Salartash), it can fail and the expansion could be asymmetric with 0 evidence of it leading to an increase in lip width, let alone in adults unless you have some death tier palate width or go way overboard and bugsbunnymax like this nigga

View attachment 3178079


THEN JUST GET SARPE LOL : This is the GOAT Ramieri in person here :
View attachment 3178063


LIP DEVICE :

like @Angutoid 's

My New Mouth Widening Invention Without Smile Lines

So this is how it looks like: I could make it more complicated but i wanted it to cost less so every narrow mouthcel could benefit. Wear this overnight!!! You need 2 more things (1 if you don't care about smile lines) to use with this: A rubber band (Smaller the size more the pressure is)...

looksmax.org

or the ones displayed in @RecessedPrettyboy 's thread

Mouth Widening Appliances

Mouth Widening Appliance 3d models for 3d printing Now before someone asks How do I print it if I dont have a 3d printer? Just go to a 3d printing service store and print it. simple and shoudnt be expensive at all Here are the different sizes: 7cm: https://www.tinkercad.com/things/2ZfCaY9upiy...

looksmax.org

or FacialFlex's https://www.craniorehab.com/Facial-Flex-Adult-Microstomia-Prevention-Appliance.html

Well, first of all, none of them are arguing for their efficacy , so i'll try to play devil's advocate :

Potential argument 1 : Lip tribe bro

View attachment 3178292
Well that's what ends up happening :

View attachment 3178293
View attachment 3178294

Potential argument 2 : Facial Flex

Well that one is specifically designed to prevent and manage microstomia i.e. we're talking about scarring or fibrosis here (= for it not to relapse) not to expand normal healthy tissue @Pendejo

Potential argument 3 : Anecdotal

People believe many things like iris color changes due to a raw meat diet @slavicpsycho, carbohydrate abstinence leading to optical superpowers @Never Get Up , mewing to increase lefort 3 area projection but these are "relatively" harmless except Bonesmashing stop it bro @Zeta @Clavicular

A too strong or improper lip expansion session could cause damage to the delicate tissues of the lips, tearing of the fragile mucous membranes which could lead to infections, muscle strain which would cause chronic fatigue or spasms, nerve irritation, it could have an impact on the alignment of the teeth, the health of gums, etc. So many unkown and very undesirable consequences that simple anecdotes can't logically outweigh.

What the fuck to do then ?

Commissuroplasty
I'm sure you're already vaguely familiar with this procedure, the main goal of this procedure is to maintain lip competence, it's a very quick and effective surgery though : it doesn't need complexe techniques.

You can do it in 2 ways⁸ :
The simplest being : Buccal mucosal advancement


The alternative being : Myomucosal advancement flap


OK BRO but who tf performs it bro even and how much ?
SPAIN : https://mallorcamedicalgroup.com/en/procedures/plastic-surgery/facial-surgery/comisuroplasty/
Price : 1k€ to 2k€
TEXAS : https://planoplasticsurgery.com/lip-commissuroplasty/
Price : Get a quote yourself lil bro
I know Eppley used to perform it, he wrote on it extensively on his blog but he stopped doing it, he would be charging 800k USD anyway

Makeup
I couldn't find any makeup tutorial that does this specifically, JFL at foids btw, muh looksmax gender, they always just increase lip vertical size like some retards actual

Just imagine for me that you're doing a commissuroplasty but with makeup
You're gonna need first concelear for two reasons :
1- to blur the actual natural edges of your mouth
2- to create a fake new vermillion border

An eyeshadow brush :
to blend-in the concealer

Lip liner :
You're gonna overline your lips slightly past the natural commissure and extend the line just beyoned the natural edge but don't do overdo it to avoid pufferfishmaxxing

Lipstick as cherry chapstick wouldn't be able to fill :
You're gonna fill in your newly accquired vermillion with a matching lipstick, matte lipstick would work better since it'll make it look sharper, you want lighter in the center and darker in the outer corners to give a gradient effect, that will enhance the width visually, you'll understand easily if you have any drawing/coloring background

Optional : Highlighter on the cupid's bow and just below the upper lip to draw the attention to the center en enhance that gradient effect.
Contouring to further accentuate the shadow you setup with the concealer

Follow some "HOW TO GET BIGGER LIPS" tutorials on youtube to get the gist but only apply it to lateral commissures since they all jsut increase the height of the vermillions.

OR Moustache obviously :





¹Stephan, C.N., & Henneberg, M. (2003). Predicting mouth width from inter-canine width — a 75% rule. Journal of Forensic Sciences, 48, 725–727.
²Hildebrandt, K.A., & Fitzgerald, H.E. (1979). Facial feature determinants of perceived infant attractiveness. Infant Behavior & Development, 2, 329–339.
³Livingston, R.W., & Pearce, N.A. (2009). The teddy-bear effect does having a baby face benefit black chief executive officers? Psychological Science, 20, 1229–1236.
⁴Harvey, P.H., Kavanagh, M., & Clutton-Brock, T.H. (1978). Sexual dimorphism in primate teeth. Journal of Zoology, 186, 475–485.
⁵Plavcan, J.M., & van Schaik, C.P. (1992). Intrasexual competition and canine dimorphism in anthropoid primates. American Journal of Physical Anthropology, 87, 461–477.
⁶Re, D. E., & Rule, N. O. (2016). The big man has a big mouth: Mouth width correlates with perceived leadership ability and actual leadership performance.
⁷https://www.researchgate.net/public..._Data_of_Korean_Pilots_for_Oxygen_Mask_Design
⁸Parsel, S. M., & Winters, R. D. (2020). Commissuroplasty. Operative Techniques in Otolaryngology, 31(1), 33–37.

Spoiler: Tags

@Clavicular @Alexanderr @TechnoBoss @Jason Voorhees @truthhurts @greycel @sb23 @Haseeb @truthhurts @PeakIncels @UZB_Strebl @MA_ascender @SubhumanForever @kaligula567 @enchanted_elixir @Blackgymmax @Rea @HarrierDuBois

Quick edit : the 1.6 with alar base is a shit measurement for ideal lip width cause ala size isn't a key feature in aesthetic cause then you would just get alarplasty with a shit mouth width but that will look like pure dogshit

Not botb worthy or even close but decent effort, the thread itself has only 1 relevant piece of info and is also like 70% accurate

 

[NZb6Air]

Not botb worthy or even close but decent effort, the thread itself has only 1 relevant piece of info, but the thread itself is 70% accurate

- the 16yo kid who said temporal hypetrophy

Does geting a lip lift make the lips narrow v

wait wdym

 

[Rigged]

- the 16yo kid who said temporal hypetrophy

im not wrong also im not 16? And the temporalis is a muscle what r u talking about

wait wdym

 

[ryuken]

high iq shit i had to google 25% of the words to understand goated thread bhai

 

[YungTrappa]

Wow, was just thinking about this the other day. Great post, bookmarked. Hope to see more guides from you in the future. Thanks. High iq.

 

[sb23]

BOTB in less than a day. Good shieat mayn.

 

[4lt.Real]

Holy shit BOTB????

 

[4lt.Real]

congrats bhai @NZb6Air

 

[NZb6Air]

congrats bhai @NZb6Air

did u like it bro

 

[mathis]

18+ / Leanmaxxed Only

​

The mouth or lip width is the distance between the oral commissures.

Spoiler: Lip anatomy and terminology :

1 Philtrum
2 Philtral ridges/columns
3 Cupid’s bow
4 High points of the vermilion (bilateral)
5 White roll
6 Upper lip vermilion
7 Upper lip tubercle
8 Vermilion border (mucocutaneous junction)
9 Lower lip vermilion
10 Oral (labial) commissures
11 Nasolabial groove
12 Mentolabial groove

View attachment 3176634​

Obviously, this is to be considered only after having addressed your maxilla (projection & palate width¹), teeth normalization & lip tonicity. (it's all related)

FIRST LET'S GET THIS OUT OF THE WAY :
How to tell you need orthognathic and/or orthodontic work for your lips aesthetics

Lip Curvature :
Upper lip curvature (frontal view): the mid-philtrum height and bilateral oral commissure heights should be approximately equal in adults with the lips lightly in contact.

View attachment 3177487
For example :
A significantly shorter mid-philtrum height compared with commissure height in an adult result in upper lip line morphology referred to as an inverted arc.

View attachment 3177488View attachment 3177692
According to Dr.Naini :
The contour of the upper and lower lips at rest may resemble an inverted arc in a number of conditions, giving the patient the appearance of a frown:

1 - Maxillary or midfacial hypoplasia: The unintentionally aggressive appearance particularly common in ‘ Class III ’ patients is due to this inverted arc, secondary to maxillary hypoplasia. Management requires maxillary advancement.

2- Lowering/drooping of the oral commissures as a result of ageing: Management requires rhytidectomy (facelift).

Lip tonicity :

It refers to the muscular tone of the lips and it is easily predictable by the underlying jaw structure and, subsequently, teeth alignment.

For example :

Class 2 malocclusion will often lead to hyperactivity of the lower lip :

View attachment 3177547

A more severe class 2 will often lead to upper lip hypotonicity :

View attachment 3177552

Bimaxillary protrusion will often lead to limp or flaccid lips :

View attachment 3177653

Correction of the underlying deformity allows normal lip function and often results in the upper lip developing normal tonicity.

Upper lip height (long philtrumcels) :

View attachment 3177685

Don't forget that the skull is a 3D object and that includes lips so a projection and even CCW rotation of the maxilla would lower perceived upper lip height @Clavicular and expose more upper lip vermilion. However, it probably won't help your lip width since the crucial growth period has been missed. I'd need @RealSurgerymax opinion on this since he has actual experience with multipiece Lefort 1's.

With considerations to thick BBC upper lips which tend to be less indicative/more camouflaging of the underlying teeth and jaw structures, so get scans ig
View attachment 3177493




Now that we've ruled out dentofacial deformities which is the reason most of us are ugly , it is still possible to have bad lip width without any skeletal problem due to genetics (), aging or soft tissue asymmetry.

What's an ideal lip width?

This nigga da Vinci thinks it should align with IPD in a well proportioned face

View attachment 3177704View attachment 3177706

which is correct bro

View attachment 3177707View attachment 3177708View attachment 3177709
View attachment 3177719View attachment 3177722View attachment 3177733


What are the physiognomical advantages of an ideal lip width / Why bother ?

First of all it's a baby trait² and babyfacedness is negatively correlated with attractiveness, same logic as hollow cheeks : "Particular attention has been paid to facial features which distinguish infants from adults. " B a b y i s h " or infantile facial features include a high and protruding forehead, large eyes placed in the middle of the face, a small nose and mouth, and fat cheeks (Gardner & Wallach, 1965; Hess, 1970)."


i.e. the chérubin look is undesirable for adults, it's what makes us invisible (like actually this is the reason subhumans are invisible)
View attachment 3178365
"As Zebrowitz (1997) noted, ‘‘a baby’s face is disarming’’ (p.64). Decades of research have shown that baby-faced adults are perceived as being more warm, trustworthy, and innocent than mature-faced adults (for a review, see Zebrowitz, 1997). They are also treated with greater patience, sensitivity, and compassion. For example, studies have demonstrated that baby-faced offenders tend to receive more lenient sentences than mature-faced offenders for certain types of crimes (e.g., Berry & Zebrowitz-McArthur, 1988). Studies have also found that baby-faced individuals are more persuasive than mature-faced individuals when trustworthiness is uncertain (Brownlow, 1992), and that corporations with baby-faced spokespeople are trusted more than those with mature-faced spokespeople during a mild public-relations crisis (Gorn, Jiang, & Johar, 2008). However, there are costs to the tenderness that a baby face engenders. Like babies, baby-faced adults are perceived as being incompetent and weak. Consequently, research has suggested that babyfaceness may be a liability for people striving to attain high positions of leadership in government (Zebrowitz & Montepare, 2005) and industry (Rule & Ambady, 2008)."³
Which is fine if you're femboymaxxing I guess

Secondly, it is a sign of physical formidability which then links it to leadership, the current evolutionary hypothesis being that canine tooth size and ICW is positively correlated with a wider mouth and big dimorphic canines (thus mouth) correlate with male physical combat and dominance in primates ⁴˒⁵
View attachment 3177444
Indeed, mouth width positively correlates with perceived leadership ability and actual leadership performance in humans⁶

some cagefuel I stumbled upon in a study analyzing the Facial Anthropometric Data of Korean Pilots for Oxygen Mask Design and pilots mog civilians for some reason (they just look the part)⁷ @mug



Disproving the usual copes :

JUST GET MSE BRO, first of all, only a few orthos provide it ( https://www.moonmse.com/distributors-1 ), it's expensive af (quoted 16k USD by Dr. Sheri Salartash), it can fail and the expansion could be asymmetric with 0 evidence of it leading to an increase in lip width, let alone in adults unless you have some death tier palate width or go way overboard and bugsbunnymax like this nigga

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THEN JUST GET SARPE LOL : This is the GOAT Ramieri in person here :
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LIP DEVICE :

like @Angutoid 's

My New Mouth Widening Invention Without Smile Lines

So this is how it looks like: I could make it more complicated but i wanted it to cost less so every narrow mouthcel could benefit. Wear this overnight!!! You need 2 more things (1 if you don't care about smile lines) to use with this: A rubber band (Smaller the size more the pressure is)...

looksmax.org

or the ones displayed in @RecessedPrettyboy 's thread

Mouth Widening Appliances

Mouth Widening Appliance 3d models for 3d printing Now before someone asks How do I print it if I dont have a 3d printer? Just go to a 3d printing service store and print it. simple and shoudnt be expensive at all Here are the different sizes: 7cm: https://www.tinkercad.com/things/2ZfCaY9upiy...

looksmax.org

or FacialFlex's https://www.craniorehab.com/Facial-Flex-Adult-Microstomia-Prevention-Appliance.html

Well, first of all, none of them are arguing for their efficacy , so i'll try to play devil's advocate :

Potential argument 1 : Lip tribe bro

View attachment 3178292
Well that's what ends up happening :

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Potential argument 2 : Facial Flex

Well that one is specifically designed to prevent and manage microstomia i.e. we're talking about scarring or fibrosis here (= for it not to relapse) not to expand normal healthy tissue @Pendejo

Potential argument 3 : Anecdotal

People believe many things like iris color changes due to a raw meat diet @slavicpsycho, carbohydrate abstinence leading to optical superpowers @Never Get Up , mewing to increase lefort 3 area projection but these are "relatively" harmless except Bonesmashing stop it bro @Zeta @Clavicular

A too strong or improper lip expansion session could cause damage to the delicate tissues of the lips, tearing of the fragile mucous membranes which could lead to infections, muscle strain which would cause chronic fatigue or spasms, nerve irritation, it could have an impact on the alignment of the teeth, the health of gums, etc. So many unkown and very undesirable consequences that simple anecdotes can't logically outweigh.

What the fuck to do then ?

Commissuroplasty
I'm sure you're already vaguely familiar with this procedure, the main goal of this procedure is to maintain lip competence, it's a very quick and effective surgery though : it doesn't need complexe techniques.

You can do it in 2 ways⁸ :
The simplest being : Buccal mucosal advancement


The alternative being : Myomucosal advancement flap


OK BRO but who tf performs it bro even and how much ?
SPAIN : https://mallorcamedicalgroup.com/en/procedures/plastic-surgery/facial-surgery/comisuroplasty/
Price : 1k€ to 2k€
TEXAS : https://planoplasticsurgery.com/lip-commissuroplasty/
Price : Get a quote yourself lil bro
I know Eppley used to perform it, he wrote on it extensively on his blog but he stopped doing it, he would be charging 800k USD anyway

Makeup
I couldn't find any makeup tutorial that does this specifically, JFL at foids btw, muh looksmax gender, they always just increase lip vertical size like some retards actual

Just imagine for me that you're doing a commissuroplasty but with makeup
You're gonna need first concelear for two reasons :
1- to blur the actual natural edges of your mouth
2- to create a fake new vermillion border

An eyeshadow brush :
to blend-in the concealer

Lip liner :
You're gonna overline your lips slightly past the natural commissure and extend the line just beyoned the natural edge but don't do overdo it to avoid pufferfishmaxxing

Lipstick as cherry chapstick wouldn't be able to fill :
You're gonna fill in your newly accquired vermillion with a matching lipstick, matte lipstick would work better since it'll make it look sharper, you want lighter in the center and darker in the outer corners to give a gradient effect, that will enhance the width visually, you'll understand easily if you have any drawing/coloring background

Optional : Highlighter on the cupid's bow and just below the upper lip to draw the attention to the center en enhance that gradient effect.
Contouring to further accentuate the shadow you setup with the concealer

Follow some "HOW TO GET BIGGER LIPS" tutorials on youtube to get the gist but only apply it to lateral commissures since they all jsut increase the height of the vermillions.

OR Moustache obviously :





¹Stephan, C.N., & Henneberg, M. (2003). Predicting mouth width from inter-canine width — a 75% rule. Journal of Forensic Sciences, 48, 725–727.
²Hildebrandt, K.A., & Fitzgerald, H.E. (1979). Facial feature determinants of perceived infant attractiveness. Infant Behavior & Development, 2, 329–339.
³Livingston, R.W., & Pearce, N.A. (2009). The teddy-bear effect does having a baby face benefit black chief executive officers? Psychological Science, 20, 1229–1236.
⁴Harvey, P.H., Kavanagh, M., & Clutton-Brock, T.H. (1978). Sexual dimorphism in primate teeth. Journal of Zoology, 186, 475–485.
⁵Plavcan, J.M., & van Schaik, C.P. (1992). Intrasexual competition and canine dimorphism in anthropoid primates. American Journal of Physical Anthropology, 87, 461–477.
⁶Re, D. E., & Rule, N. O. (2016). The big man has a big mouth: Mouth width correlates with perceived leadership ability and actual leadership performance.
⁷https://www.researchgate.net/public..._Data_of_Korean_Pilots_for_Oxygen_Mask_Design
⁸Parsel, S. M., & Winters, R. D. (2020). Commissuroplasty. Operative Techniques in Otolaryngology, 31(1), 33–37.

Spoiler: Tags

@Clavicular @Alexanderr @TechnoBoss @Jason Voorhees @truthhurts @greycel @sb23 @Haseeb @truthhurts @PeakIncels @UZB_Strebl @MA_ascender @SubhumanForever @kaligula567 @enchanted_elixir @Blackgymmax @Rea @HarrierDuBois

Quick edit : the 1.6 with alar base is a shit measurement for ideal lip width cause ala size isn't a key feature in aesthetic cause then you would just get alarplasty with a shit mouth width but that will look like pure dogshit

bon thread. tag moi la prochaine fois

 

[psychomandible]

O.M.G

 

[perpetuallytired]

Mogger thread until I read the makeup part

Who the fuck cares lol. If it can't be detected does not matter.

 

[RAGNARAIKA]

I registered just to praise this incredible thread.

 

[TechnoBoss]

Ye probably, people would associate sharpness and robustness to masculinity so lips which would need be to rounder plump are overlooked and there's this image of lips + lipstick being a symbol of le icon woman or femme fatale
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There's suprisingly not enough literature on this too (male lip width), i connected most of it

P.S: This was my idea of a water down/ simple to read thread, btw I don't see how this could be made more enjoyable to read without falling in oversimplification/incorrect stuff

You're right. So many good-looking celebrities have those plump lips though. I've noticed this is a common trait with basically all celebrities with high PSL. Great lips and great eyebrows.

Also if this is your idea of making a simple thread, I'd love to see what a complex thread you'd make would look like. Any ideas for other things that you'll be making threads on in the future? I like the way you formatted/wrote this one.

 

[PeakIncels]

I remember when bro was just a yellow user, now he is red and going in botb, and proceeding to become even greater, mirin bro, I hope you go far tbh

 

[NZb6Air]

You're right. So many good-looking celebrities have those plump lips though. I've noticed this is a common trait with basically all celebrities with high PSL. Great lips and great eyebrows.

Also if this is your idea of making a simple thread, I'd love to see what a complex thread you'd make would look like. Any ideas for other things that you'll be making threads on in the future? I like the way you formatted/wrote this one.

Appreciate it , I'm thinking of how there's ZERO thread on , let alone monobloc, obo, etc, on lefort 2 & 3??? which is possibly the only and best way to ascend to humanity, a thread on that would have to start with a full presentation on midface + nasion aesthetics (giant's thread covered some) and then the history of the procedure, the absurdity of how risk is treated (alexander's thread covered some) , the misconceptions on them, b/a's , the procedure, how to get them, how to recover, giant's innovations which he gatekeeps -- i'll have to counter-engineer them, it's gonna be a lot of work

I remember when bro was just a yellow user, now he is red and going in botb, and proceeding to become even greater, mirin bro, I hope you go far tbh

thanks bro you're a smart kid yk

 

[PeakIncels]

Appreciate it , I'm thinking of how there's ZERO thread on , let alone monobloc, obo, etc, on lefort 2 & 3??? which is possibly the only and best way to ascend to humanity, a thread on that would have to start with a full presentation on midface + nasion aesthetics (giant's thread covered some) and then the history of the procedure, the absurdity of how risk is treated (alexander's thread covered some) , the misconceptions on them, b/a's , the procedure, how to get them, how to recover, giant's innovations which he gatekeeps -- i'll have to counter-engineer them, it's gonna be a lot of work

thanks bro you're a smart kid yk

thank you, and I hope keep doing these type threads, but i Just feel like it's unfair how it could be threw away because these retards on this forum just won't understand or give a fuck bro, but if it makes you feel better I do care and read this

you are getting big here, and fundamental, work on this threads bro, you hit 10.000 rep and have 5000 posts, that's crazy

don't forget to take care of yourself, I'm proud of u

 

[Codeinlover]

How about instead of making threads like this u go get a job so u can pay for ur surgeries

 

[NZb6Air]

How about instead of making threads like this u go get a job so u can pay for ur surgeries

- bald 16yo kid

 

[Dooley]

So I can widen my lips by fixing my overjet and biprotrusion?

 

[NZb6Air]

So I can widen my lips by fixing my overjet and biprotrusion?

It means you have to fix that first before assessing if your lips really need widening

 

[baerr]

I find it not that important, lip size and shape is what I look for honestly. But I understand it’s a dom trait. My mouth is on the smaller side but my lips are ok, it’s balances out my already ogre face.

 

[Dooley]

It means you have to fix that first before assessing if your lips really need widening

Thx bro. Actually I think my lips looks narrow because of my wide and bulbous nose. What worries me about a narrowing rhinoplasty is that it would make my eyes looks more wide-set.

What do you think about having a rhinoplasty and then infraorbitals to enhance esr?