Minoxidil SIDE EFFECT (Anti-androgen?) (low iq thread)

[goat2x]

many users debated minoxidil's antiandrogen functions ive only found 3 studies about this
if u know more post it


While this study found no anti-androgenic Affect on the frank organ with minoxidil(1)
it shown to have effects on humans
this study says that Minoxidil might make the androgen receptor less stable (2)
while the this study found SIGNIFICANT anti-androgenic effects in HACAT cells ( significant downregulation of 5α-R2 ) aka(Testosterone converting to DHT)
(3)


it looks like Minoxidil has an affect on DHT levels.




Could we alter this with taking Creatine?
We know that Creatine doesnt increase Testosterone but it increases DHT, in this study(4) they found higher DHT TO TESTOSTERONE levels by 36%, in creatine users.
so creatine supplememation may act trough an increased rate of conversion of testosterone to DHT.



1. Barbara A. Nuck et al.Topical Minoxidil Does Not Act as an Antiandrogen in the Flank Organ of the Golden Syrian Hamster. Arch Dermatol. 1987;123(1):59-61
2. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4039155/
3. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30064598/
4. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19741313/








@DrTony - anything that i misunderstood/doesnt make sense at all?

 

[Lev Peshkov]

Fucking over for baldingcels

 

[goat2x]

Fucking over for baldingcels

why

 

[Lev Peshkov]

why

They can't use anything to stop it without detrimental side effects

 

[goat2x]

They can't use anything to stop it without detrimental side effects

yeah.
i use it for eyebrows tho

 

[Lev Peshkov]

yeah.
i use it for eyebrows tho

Ovah

 

[goat2x]

btw the dht decrease would explain the Minox collagen side effects
@Lifeisgood72

 

[Deleted member 1862]

btw the dht decrease would explain the Minox collagen side effects
@Lifeisgood72

i can't subscribe to this idea bc othewise it's over for fincels

 

[goat2x]

i can't subscribe to this idea bc othewise it's over for fincels

what do u mean

 

[goat2x]

i can't subscribe to this idea bc othewise it's over for fincels

blocking dht destroys your skin thats a fact already

 

[The Bleach Pill]

bro what is it with you and this minoxidil scare mongering lately.i doubt minoxidil has an effect on dht as its plainly a growth stimulant and even if it was it would be miniscule

 

[Deleted member 1862]

blocking dht destroys your skin thats a fact already

why is life so fucking cruel

how are finasteride users meant to avoid raping collagen

I haven't noticed any major signs but tbh it might've made a difference idk

 

[goat2x]

bro what is it with you and this minoxidil scare mongering lately.i doubt minoxidil has an effect on dht as its plainly a growth stimulant and even if it was it would be miniscule

" Results were represented as 5α-R2 / GAPDH fold change. Minoxidil treatment resulted in a 0.22 fold change for 5α-R2 (p < 0.0001). This antiandrogenic effect of minoxidil, shown by significant downregulation of 5α-R2 gene expression in HaCaT cells, "

 

[hairyballscel]

It could be a part of why it works doe?

but yh creatine and Butea superba should do the trick
Minoxidil isn’t great doe, gains aren’t permanent

 

[goat2x]

why is life so fucking cruel

how are finasteride users meant to avoid raping collagen

I haven't noticed any major signs but tbh it might've made a difference idk

"Our data show that the androgen receptor accounts for ∼50% of collagen content in male skin (120.6 vs 51.4) "

 

[Deleted member 1862]

"Our data show that the androgen receptor accounts for ∼50% of collagen content in male skin (120.6 vs 51.4) "

how many papers corroborate this

also bro, if you know about this why're you using minoxidil on eyebrows? the hairs there never become terminal so you're gonna be raping your collagen indefinitely

 

[goat2x]

It could be a part of why it works doe?

but yh creatine and Butea superba should do the trick
Minoxidil isn’t great doe, gains aren’t permanent

with the retarded creatine theory it would be pretty safe

 

[goat2x]

how many papers corroborate this

A Role for the Androgen Receptor in Collagen Content of the Skin

Collagen, the major macromolecular component of skin, is responsible for maintaining the structural integrity of the tissue as well as for providing i…

www.sciencedirect.com

a lot

 

[DrTony]

many users debated minoxidil's antiandrogen functions ive only found 3 studies about this
if u know more post it


While this study found no anti-androgenic Affect on the frank organ with minoxidil(1)
it shown to have effects on humans
this study says that Minoxidil might make the androgen receptor less stable (2)
while the this study found SIGNIFICANT anti-androgenic effects in HACAT cells ( significant downregulation of 5α-R2 ) aka(Testosterone converting to DHT)
(3)


it looks like Minoxidil has an affect on DHT levels.




Could we alter this with taking Creatine?
We know that Creatine doesnt increase Testosterone but it increases DHT, in this study(4) they found higher DHT TO TESTOSTERONE levels by 36%, in creatine users.
so creatine supplememation may act trough an increased rate of conversion of testosterone to DHT.



1. Barbara A. Nuck et al.Topical Minoxidil Does Not Act as an Antiandrogen in the Flank Organ of the Golden Syrian Hamster. Arch Dermatol. 1987;123(1):59-61
2. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4039155/
3. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30064598/
4. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19741313/








@DrTony - anything that i misunderstood/doesnt make sense at all?

Well you posted legitimate peer-reviewed studies (from low-tier journals but that is OK) which in my mind automatically translates you respect the forum members' time.
The first two studies are in vitro and some x-ray crystallography data showing some tentative potential of minoxidil in inhibiting AR-related functions (transcription as well as downstream AR-target genes/proteins) in *cell lines on a petri dish*. Understand cells on a petri dish often behave very differently to what they can behave in a native 3D microenvironment (in your native tissue) with properly simultaneously integrated ECM, growth factor, geometrical and mechanical cues. I am not dismissing in vitro studies, they are hard work and can often uncover mechanistic insight. Anyhow, in these in vitro studies do show some local anti-androgenic activity. How and if this translates in vivo (living organisms) remains to be seen. I haven't looked deeply into the methodology of the two studies because I am swamped at work.

The creatine-DHT link is dubious.

 

[Deleted member 1862]

A Role for the Androgen Receptor in Collagen Content of the Skin

Collagen, the major macromolecular component of skin, is responsible for maintaining the structural integrity of the tissue as well as for providing i…

www.sciencedirect.com

a lot

 

[poloralf]

Yeah...you might want to swim in Minoxidil and stop nitpicking after you see this:

 

[goat2x]

Well you posted legitimate peer-reviewed studies (from low-tier journals but that is OK) which in my mind automatically translates you respect the forum members' time.
The first two studies are in vitro and some x-ray crystallography data showing some tentative potential of minoxidil in inhibiting AR-related functions (transcription as well as downstream AR-target genes/proteins) in *cell lines on a petri dish*. Understand cells on a petri dish often behave very differently to what they can behave in a native 3D microenvironment (in your native tissue) with properly simultaneously integrated ECM, growth factor, geometrical and mechanical cues. I am not dismissing in vitro studies, they are hard work and can often uncover mechanistic insight. Anyhow, in these in vitro studies do show some local anti-androgenic activity. How and if this translates in vivo (living organisms) remains to be seen. I haven't looked deeply into the methodology of the two studies because I am swamped at work.

The creatine-DHT link is dubious.

Okay,thanks.


what do you think about the 3rd study?do you agree with it
,you dont have time and you didnt read it, or its pretty inconvenient because its not at receptor level?

 

[goat2x]

Yeah...you might want to swim in Minoxidil and stop nitpicking after you see this:
View attachment 545910View attachment 545913

i dont use it for hair
thats why the androgenic affects are important to me

 

[Deleted member 773]

blocking dht destroys your skin thats a fact already

Its the androgen receptors

Androgen receptors produce 50% of collagen in the skin:

A role for the androgen receptor in collagen content of the skin - PubMed

Collagen, the major macromolecular component of skin, is responsible for maintaining the structural integrity of the tissue as well as for providing important functional characteristics, such as pliability and thickness. We have been studying the structure and regulation of collagen in mouse...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Minoxidil blocks androgen receptors (so does finasteride and every other hair growth method)

Minoxidil may suppress androgen receptor-related functions

Although minoxidil has been used for more than two decades to treat androgenetic alopecia (AGA), an androgen-androgen receptor (AR) pathway-dominant disease, its precise mechanism of action remains elusive. We hypothesized that minoxidil may influence ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Deleted member 773]

Oh u already said that in this thread, anyways a great website is propeciahelp where people theorize how to fix PFS

I believe we have already discovered the cure for PFS

Hi all, I think the answer has been all around us, yet we just haven’t put it together yet, but let me do this for you guys. First of all, I know I’m new to this forum, but I have been lurking for months due to my own issue. I won’t go into detail about it, but please read what I have put...

forum.propeciahelp.com

 

[Salludon]

yeah.
i use it for eyebrows tho

Me too.
i’ve been using it for less than a month tho so haven’t seen any good results. Wbu?

 

[Chadelite]

Minox doesn't affect collagen

Ie meant to dermaroll at the same time and use peppermint oil

I'm gonna dht max idc I need a Chad beard to cover my shit chin

Chin is so important

 

[goat2x]

Me too.
i’ve been using it for less than a month tho so haven’t seen any good results. Wbu?

ive seen good results
but the study on monixidil mentions that different Genes have different results on it
so maybe it wont work that well for you

 

[goat2x]

Minox doesn't affect collagen

Ie meant to dermaroll at the same time and use peppermint oil

I'm gonna dht max idc I need a Chad beard to cover my shit chin

Chin is so important

it doesnt directly affect it

 

[Chadelite]

it doesnt directly affect it

Ah k I'm willing to use dht gel anyways

Im sure if I use hgh and biotin and red light and other suplements and head massage and do hand stands and use castor oil and other shit I wk be fine

 

[Deleted member 6217]

jfl minoxidil is such a joke tbh gains arent permanent but you could fuck your skin permanent

 

[goat2x]

jfl minoxidil is such a joke tbh gains arent permanent but you could fuck your skin permanent

it can be permanent for beard and eyebrows

 

[AlphaDude]

jfl minoxidil is such a joke tbh gains arent permanent but you could fuck your skin permanent

You are tripping. I've used it for my beard for 1 and a half year and now I've been off for 6 months and lost 0 gains.
You only lose velus hairs (yellow soft ones), once you grow thick black (terminal) hairs, those won't fall off. Also I noticed 0 side effects regarding skin. jfl at idiots paying for beard transplant.
90% of people shitting on minox are the ones who never even tried it but read on some incel forum that it's dangerous and now they are spreading that.

 

[goat2x]

You are tripping. I've used it for my beard for 1 and a half year and now I've been off for 6 months and lost 0 gains.
You only lose velus hairs (yellow soft ones), once you grow thick black (terminal) hairs, those won't fall off. Also I noticed 0 side effects regarding skin. jfl at idiots paying for beard transplant.
90% of people shitting on minox are the ones who never even tried it but read on some incel forum that it's dangerous and now they are spreading that.

this basically

 

[goat2x]

holy shit
my post history went downhill tbh ngl

 

[Eduardo DOV]

Well you posted legitimate peer-reviewed studies (from low-tier journals but that is OK) which in my mind automatically translates you respect the forum members' time.
The first two studies are in vitro and some x-ray crystallography data showing some tentative potential of minoxidil in inhibiting AR-related functions (transcription as well as downstream AR-target genes/proteins) in *cell lines on a petri dish*. Understand cells on a petri dish often behave very differently to what they can behave in a native 3D microenvironment (in your native tissue) with properly simultaneously integrated ECM, growth factor, geometrical and mechanical cues. I am not dismissing in vitro studies, they are hard work and can often uncover mechanistic insight. Anyhow, in these in vitro studies do show some local anti-androgenic activity. How and if this translates in vivo (living organisms) remains to be seen. I haven't looked deeply into the methodology of the two studies because I am swamped at work.

The creatine-DHT link is dubious.

yeh... I read a little bit of the first study, and the basis of it is that, although it is already known that minoxidil does not acts DIRECTLY on this androgen receptor thing, since it affects baldness, and baldness has this main cause in DHT, the study is a theoretical investigation to see if there may be a relationship between minoxidil and androgen receptors.


Last paragraph of Introduction from first study:

For me the answer to this question between the relationship of minoxidil and DHT is answered by looking at the cases. I thhere many people who report having problems with this (erectile, sexual things)? It seems there is not?
Like Finasteride for example, much reports of people saying they had problems with this.

Some say minoxidil fucks the skin through an unknown mechanism, but I don't see that in the before and after photos.

Look at this study(I dont know if its a good study, I dont understand much about this method's thing):

Differences in reproductive toxicology between alopecia drugs: an analysis on adverse events among female and male cases

Alopecia is a dermatological condition with limited therapeutic options. Only two drugs, finasteride and minoxidil, are approved by FDA for alopecia treatment. However, little is known about the differences in adverse effects between these two drugs. ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Anyway, this minoxidil is a weird drug with some strange colaterals... I wouldn't use it too much forever. I just want to use it for my eyebrows, I'll apply very little. I was researching about it.


And about finasteride, the biggest shit that can happen is the WOMAN getting in contact with that shit or the sperm of the man taking it. Or some shit related to rate of sperm dna damage(apparently it's something temporary while the guy takes the finasteride)

 

[Eduardo DOV]

Ok, wtf, there are cases:


jfl.

 

[MikeMew'sBitch]

Been using minox every day 2 times a day for more than a year, no visible skin damage whatsoever. Im 30, my skin looks the same as when i was 24, its smooth with no wrinkles, nasolabial folds or anything. Although im using aloe vera facial gel and green tea extract facial cream, i also drink shitload of black and green tea every day + i spend maybe 20 mins a day in the sun at most

 

[alisalamaz]

Well you posted legitimate peer-reviewed studies (from low-tier journals but that is OK) which in my mind automatically translates you respect the forum members' time.
The first two studies are in vitro and some x-ray crystallography data showing some tentative potential of minoxidil in inhibiting AR-related functions (transcription as well as downstream AR-target genes/proteins) in *cell lines on a petri dish*. Understand cells on a petri dish often behave very differently to what they can behave in a native 3D microenvironment (in your native tissue) with properly simultaneously integrated ECM, growth factor, geometrical and mechanical cues. I am not dismissing in vitro studies, they are hard work and can often uncover mechanistic insight. Anyhow, in these in vitro studies do show some local anti-androgenic activity. How and if this translates in vivo (living organisms) remains to be seen. I haven't looked deeply into the methodology of the two studies because I am swamped at work.

The creatine-DHT link is dubious.

Well you posted legitimate peer-reviewed studies (from low-tier journals but that is OK) which in my mind automatically translates you respect the forum members' time.
The first two studies are in vitro and some x-ray crystallography data showing some tentative potential of minoxidil in inhibiting AR-related functions (transcription as well as downstream AR-target genes/proteins) in *cell lines on a petri dish*. Understand cells on a petri dish often behave very differently to what they can behave in a native 3D microenvironment (in your native tissue) with properly simultaneously integrated ECM, growth factor, geometrical and mechanical cues. I am not dismissing in vitro studies, they are hard work and can often uncover mechanistic insight. Anyhow, in these in vitro studies do show some local anti-androgenic activity. How and if this translates in vivo (living organisms) remains to be seen. I haven't looked deeply into the methodology of the two studies because I am swamped at work.

The creatine-DHT link is dubious.

There is not a single AR blocker (anti-androgen) that would cause hypertrichosis. I started doing research because of this shit study because I didn't want to apply anti-androgen on my face that blocks my AR receptors. I started doing research and dug out this old study. Please explain this study to me, especially where it says about the rat prostate cytosol androgen receptor studies.I didn't quite get it.It says "Lack of displacement of labeled testosterone from rat prostate cytosol androgen receptor by phenytoin,diazoxide,minoxidil” Does this mean that minoxidil does not block androgen receptors in rat prostate?

 

[PYT]

Bumoooo

 

[Lorsss]

JFL for gym monkeys who expect gaining muscles from creatine but end up losing more hair

 

[Lorsss]

why is life so fucking cruel

how are finasteride users meant to avoid raping collagen

I haven't noticed any major signs but tbh it might've made a difference idk

just drink castor oil, it has no side effect but the fact you need to shave your facial hair more frequently

 

[PYT]

just drink castor oil, it has no side effect but the fact you need to shave your facial hair more frequently

Ngl I drank it for a month nothing happened

 

[alisalamaz]

There is not a single AR blocker (anti-androgen) that would cause hypertrichosis. I started doing research because of this shit study because I didn't want to apply anti-androgen on my face that blocks my AR receptors. I started doing research and dug out this old study. Please explain this study to me, especially where it says about the rat prostate cytosol androgen receptor studies.I didn't quite get it.It says "Lack of displacement of labeled testosterone from rat prostate cytosol androgen receptor by phenytoin,diazoxide,minoxidil” Does this mean that minoxidil does not block androgen receptors in rat prostate?

@DrTony