MSE is cope

[patricknotstar]

Also, she’s a fucking mse provider, in fact she’s my current mse provider. Mse is not cope.

are you currently wearing MSE?

 

[Deleted member 10172]

are you currently wearing MSE?

I’m making an entire imgur of all the mse cases just for you, you’re welcome



Here’s face mask which is apparently also a “cope”
View attachment 989383

Also ur whole point is biased is because she’s ur MSE provider

Yes she provides jaw surgery but she also provides mse how is that hard for you to understand? Mse is not cope for tongue space and breathing

Ur literally coping so hard because u don’t want to think u wasted ur money with MSE LOL keep coping with ur cognitive bias lol u want to think it’s not cope but ur brain is saying no it’s not .

I’ll backhand ur MSE provider and u so hard that u will need Lefort 5000 after I’m done with u.
Ur not blackpilled.

 

[spark]

lol if u do IMDO, then there is no point of MSE.

if IMDO was readily available then that would ascend a lot of people but I talked to a looking user he said it’s a pipe dream

plus isn’t IMDO paired with a Lefort I, a Lefort one would advance the maxilla way better than MSE.

obviously le fort can do more than some silly class III rubber bands but it's possible if one has an overjet

even if you want to do le fort MSE makes sense since most people who need a mandibular surgery have a narrow upper palate to begin with

Coceancig does SARPE on his IMDO patients since a maxillary widening is usually needed

 

[Deleted member 12218]

are you currently wearing MSE?

Yes I am

 

[Deleted member 12218]

Also ur whole point is biased is because she’s ur MSE provider

Ur literally coping so hard because u don’t want to think u wasted ur money with MSE LOL keep coping with ur cognitive bias lol u want to think it’s not cope but ur brain is saying no it’s not .

I’ll backhand ur MSE provider and u so hard that u will need Lefort 5000 after I’m done with u.
Ur not blackpilled.

I’m getting mse to widen my palate and straighten my teeth. The aesthetic benefits are just a bonus. Mse works and does it’s job keep coping subhuman.

 

[patricknotstar]

Yes I am

Nice , I am looking into bimax with arnett and Gunson but I wonder how they will react since I have no malocclusion and my intentions are mainly cosmetic

 

[Deleted member 10172]

Nice , I am looking into bimax with arnett and Gunson but I wonder how they will react since I have no malocclusion and my intentions are mainly cosmetic

Is an overbite considered malocclusion can’t u just say u have problems breathing at night

 

[patricknotstar]

Is an overbite considered malocclusion can’t u just say u have problems breathing at night

Overbite is malocclusion, could also cause sleep apnea. I’m unsure of the requirements to be a candidate for jaw surgery myself. I’m talking to an American surgeon who has asked for a referral from my dentist

 

[Deleted member 12218]

MSE, then protract it with bollards + fm.

then IMDO

ezpz

It doesn’t work like that. My provider said it will throw off the entire muscular balance within your craniofacial structure. Basement theory vs duel trained expert knowledge

 

[Deleted member 12218]

Nice , I am looking into bimax with arnett and Gunson but I wonder how they will react since I have no malocclusion and my intentions are mainly cosmetic

Providers of anything don’t like the word cosmetic unless it’s a plastic surgeon. So many factors go into weather the results work out or not the way they were planned

 

[Deleted member 12218]

Overbite is malocclusion, could also cause sleep apnea. I’m unsure of the requirements to be a candidate for jaw surgery myself. I’m talking to an American surgeon who has asked for a referral from my dentist

Overbite = set back/short jaw = set back hyoid = set back tongue = sleep disordered breathing, easy reason

 

[patricknotstar]

Providers of anything don’t like the word cosmetic unless it’s a plastic surgeon. So many factors go into weather the results work out or not the way they were planned

Guess I’ll have to approach from a sleep apnea angle but bring up how important aesthetic benefits are for me. If I am turned down my only option is surgeon in India who will perform on anyone

 

[patricknotstar]

Overbite = set back jaw = set back hyoid = set back tongue = sleep disordered breathing, easy reason

Thanks bro, this perfectly describes me. Even at low body fat my submental hangs cuz of my hyoid

 

[Deleted member 10172]

Thanks bro, this perfectly describes me. Even at low body fat my submental hangs cuz of my hyoid

Overbite = set back/short jaw = set back hyoid = set back tongue = sleep disordered breathing, easy reason

Overbite is a good reason I would say. My overbite isn’t huge though.

I was talking to this guy on lookism about raising the hyoid with distraction osteogenesis surgery but he said due to the overbite being fixed u wouldn’t need to raise the hyoid it will be already done

 

[Deleted member 12218]

Overbite is a good reason I would say. My overbite isn’t huge though.

I was talking to this guy on lookism about raising the hyoid with distraction osteogenesis surgery but he said due to the overbite being fixed u wouldn’t need to raise the hyoid it will be already done

Everybody’s hyoid is set at a certain distance from the tip of the jaw to the hyoid bone. Bring the jaw forward naturally pulls the hyoid forward. At least that’s what I learned from jaw surgery videos on YouTube lmao

 

[patricknotstar]

Overbite is a good reason I would say. My overbite isn’t huge though.

I was talking to this guy on lookism about raising the hyoid with distraction osteogenesis surgery but he said due to the overbite being fixed u wouldn’t need to raise the hyoid it will be already done

Bimax worries me because the results in some ppl are dramatic and others hardly noticeable. Also I’ve seen some ppl get bimax and have no hyoid improvement or very minor

 

[Ceamce]

why not get both?

 

[Agendum]

I’m making an entire imgur of all the mse cases just for you, you’re welcome



Here’s face mask which is apparently also a “cope”
View attachment 989383

I think this was an N2 implant or something, also a simulation
Im curious about it though.

 

[spark]

It doesn’t work like that. My provider said it will throw off the entire muscular balance within your craniofacial structure. Basement theory vs duel trained expert knowledge

Virtually all MSE providers use protraction and or the facemask. Even the creator of MSE makes his clients protract:


So yeah either you are a full of shit liar or your "provider" is just another ortho scam artist.

 

[Deleted member 11099]

I’m making an entire imgur of all the mse cases just for you, you’re welcome



Here’s face mask which is apparently also a “cope”
View attachment 989383

Can you please link the paper showing the mid face soft tissue change? Looks insane if true.

 

[Deleted member 12218]

Virtually all MSE providers use protraction and or the facemask. Even the creator of MSE makes his clients protract:


So yeah either you are a full of shit liar or your "provider" is just another ortho scam artist.

Yes but it’s literally 1 mm. Most people don’t have an underbite anyway so the face mask is unnecessary and will just give you an overbite which will throw off many things like lip function. Once again your basement theory vs actual expert on this field. No shortcuts for your subhuman genetics and fucked up lifestyle, move on.

 

[Deleted member 12218]

Can you please link the paper showing the mid face soft tissue change? Looks insane if true.

Most of those I found off this site, youtube, and reddit

 

[spark]

Yes but it’s literally 1 mm. Most people don’t have an underbite anyway so the face mask is unnecessary and will just give you an overbite which will throw off many things like lip function. Once again your basement theory vs actual expert on this field. No shortcuts for your subhuman genetics and fucked up lifestyle, move on.

Looks a lot more than just 1 mm. Looks more like 3 to 4.

In the beginning of the thread you were arguing in favor of facemask giving you three mm and now you write this. So what is the basement theory? Make up your mind already you schizophrenic freak. I seriously hope you are not the hideous subhuman in your avi since despite having non-deformed forward growth he has bottom child molester tier harmony which is impossible to looksmax in any way whatsoever.

 

[Deleted member 12218]

Looks a lot more than just 1 mm. Looks more like 3 to 4.
View attachment 990704

In the beginning of the thread you were arguing in favor of facemask giving you three mm and now you write this. So what is the basement theory? Make up your mind already you schizophrenic freak. I seriously hope you are not the hideous subhuman in your avi since despite having non-deformed forward growth he has bottom child molester tier harmony which is impossible to looksmax in any way whatsoever.

Yes I’m in favor of face mask IF you have an underbite. If you have normal occlusion or slight overbite it’s just going to make the problem worse, thats just common sense. And that photo is dental tipping more than forward movement of the maxilla.

Also, why the Ad Hominem? Are my words to diffucult to understand where you have to attack my looks rather than my stance/pov?

 

[spark]

Yes I’m in favor of face mask IF you have an underbite. If you have normal occlusion or slight overbite it’s just going to make the problem worse, thats just common sense. And that photo is dental tipping more than forward movement of the maxilla.

Also, why the Ad Hominem? Are my words to diffucult to understand where you have to attack my looks rather than my stance/pov?

You can easily get a mandibular surgery to match the new upper jaw.

 

[Deleted member 12218]

You can easily get a mandibular surgery to match the new upper jaw.

What you’re suggesting is exactly what I proposed to my ortho. I’m just repeating the short memory of her saying it’s not a good idea because it throws off the function of the face/skeleton, and form follows functions. If you want her exact explanation you can shoot her an email or something. I’m just a guy repeating her and she does not agree with that idea, or at least in a class 1 case such as myself, maybe you’re different.

 

[spark]

What you’re suggesting is exactly what I proposed to my ortho. I’m just repeating the short memory of her saying it’s not a good idea because it throws off the function of the face/skeleton, and form follows functions. If you want her exact explanation you can shoot her an email or something. I’m just a guy repeating her and she does not agree with that idea, or at least in a class 1 case such as myself, maybe you’re different.

Wouldn't be surprised if she just wanted to make her job easier.

 

[scalpel]

Looks a lot more than just 1 mm. Looks more like 3 to 4.
View attachment 990704

In the beginning of the thread you were arguing in favor of facemask giving you three mm and now you write this. So what is the basement theory? Make up your mind already you schizophrenic freak. I seriously hope you are not the hideous subhuman in your avi since despite having non-deformed forward growth he has bottom child molester tier harmony which is impossible to looksmax in any way whatsoever.

Setting aside how incredibly unreliable it is for you to visually look at clinical photos and guess how many mm of advancement there is, I don't think you understand the mechanics at work here. The bands being used would cause the maxillary incisors to flare forward and the mandibular incisors to upright. In other words the change isn't from maxillary movement but from relative movement of the edges of the incisors from dental changes. Not to mention how the bite has changed...

There is a lack of evidence to suggest maxillary protraction in late adolescents/adults can actually produce forward movement of the maxilla, with or without MSE.

 

[spark]

Setting aside how incredibly unreliable it is for you to visually look at clinical photos and guess how many mm of advancement there is, I don't think you understand the mechanics at work here. The bands being used would cause the maxillary incisors to flare forward and the mandibular incisors to upright. In other words the change isn't from maxillary movement but from relative movement of the edges of the incisors from dental changes. Not to mention how the bite has changed...

There is a lack of evidence to suggest maxillary protraction in late adolescents/adults can actually produce forward movement of the maxilla, with or without MSE.

These are largely alveolar changes but not entirely

but what to expect from rubber bands which aren't skeletaly anchored. Bollard miniplates would have more of a skeletal effect.

 

[tyronelite]

@22Bones Can I PM you? I got a couple questions

 

[scalpel]

These are largely alveolar changes but not entirely
View attachment 990863

but what to expect from rubber bands which aren't skeletaly anchored. Bollard miniplates would have more of a skeletal effect.

Bollard plates do have more of a skeletal effect, but again, this is in growing patients. Late teens and older like most of this forum is? Forget it, you won't get much skeletal change without surgery period.

 

[spark]

Bollard plates do have more of a skeletal effect, but again, this is in growing patients. Late teens and older like most of this forum is? Forget it, you won't get much skeletal change without surgery period.

I am not denying that not to mention the installation of the plates requires a surgery. Some people need a few mms only. It's not like everybody needs 10mm.

 

[Darkstrand]

Good thing having good maxilla

If you have a good maxilla and still are incel you are so beyond subhuman reproducing should be punishable for you

 

[Deleted member 12218]

@22Bones Can I PM you? I got a couple questions

Go for it

 

[scalpel]

I am not denying that not to mention the installation of the plates requires a surgery. Some people need a few mms only. It's not like everybody needs 10mm.

I don't even mean it doesn't work for significant change, I mean it accomplishes truly minimal (at best), aesthetically imperceptible change. Bollard plates, face mask protraction, etc. are all typically avoided in adults for a reason - it just doesn't work. Catch someone young enough and these treatments can be effective but for the userbase here, it's a waste of time.

 

[Deleted member 12218]

Wouldn't be surprised if she just wanted to make her job easier.

Me neither but remember she gets paid for every extra ad on including jaw surgery, what’s stopping her from being greedy and scamming me into something completely unnecessary? Oh that’s right her fucking reputation, she’s also a really good person, I can tell when someone has mal intent

 

[Deleted member 11406]

If you have a good maxilla and still are incel you are so beyond subhuman reproducing should be punishable for you

I'm not incel

 

[tyronelite]

Go for it

Says I can’t start a convo with you

 

[Deleted member 12218]

Says I can’t start a convo with you

Think it’s because my settings 1 sec

 

[spark]

Me neither but remember she gets paid for every extra ad on including jaw surgery, what’s stopping her from being greedy and scamming me into something completely unnecessary? Oh that’s right her fucking reputation, she’s also a really good person, I can tell when someone has mal intent

If it works for them why fix it? Most doctors aren't going to go out of their comfort zone to experiment. There is a reason for example there is not a single surgeon in the USA who does IMDO. BSSO works good enough there is no need for any them to do something new.

 

[Deleted member 12218]

If it works for them why fix it? Most doctors aren't going to go out of their comfort zone to experiment. There is a reason for example there is not a single surgeon in the USA who does IMDO. BSSO works good enough there is no need for any them to do something new.

That’s a good point, but I don’t think it was a comfort zone thing for her as she’s led many jaw surgery cases before. According to her, I have a “beautiful side profile” but apparently subhuman to you. It seems heavily opinionated, and people here will be much more critical of themselves than irl. Unless you’re severely deformed, it’s just not worth the risks imo.

 

[Deleted member 10172]

Virtually all MSE providers use protraction and or the facemask. Even the creator of MSE makes his clients protract:


So yeah either you are a full of shit liar or your "provider" is just another ortho scam artist.

he is a fucking idiot. he is literally biased and he doesn't know it. Ofc YOUR GONNA think MSE is not cope because you already got it so u don't want to feel like you wasted ur time and money.

 

[Deleted member 10172]

If it works for them why fix it? Most doctors aren't going to go out of their comfort zone to experiment. There is a reason for example there is not a single surgeon in the USA who does IMDO. BSSO works good enough there is no need for any them to do something new.

Yeah IMDO is a pipe dream

 

[Deleted member 12218]

he is a fucking idiot. he is literally biased and he doesn't know it. Ofc YOUR GONNA think MSE is not cope because you already got it so u don't want to feel like you wasted ur time and money.

How about reply to me instead. I could be the most biased man in the world but it wouldn’t matter because I’m just pointing out facts here.

Mse is NOT cope and does it’s promised job. What does it promise? It promises expansion either in the form of teeth tipping or sutural growth.

Facts
If the suture splits, you are garunteed sutural growth which means
1. Increased nasal volume
2. Increases oral volume
3. Reduced chance of sleep disordered breathing due to reason #1 and 2
4. A wider palate
5. Forward expansion of about 1mm(it varies)
6. Reduced dark corners from smile
7. Wider smile
8. Expansion of the midface and zygos

If you disagree with any of these facts let me know, although I think these pictures answer all your questions

In b4 you insult me instead of critique my points.

 

[MSEFM]

I think these pictures answer all your questions
View attachment 995229View attachment 995233

I remember seeing this image before, but don't remember where. What article is it from?

 

[Deleted member 12218]

I remember seeing this image before, but don't remember where. What article is it from?

Right one I pulled from this site, left as well I believe. It was a while ago so Id have to search throughout here finding them again.

 

[MSEFM]

Right one I pulled from this site, left as well I believe. It was a while ago so Id have to search throughout here finding them again.

Never mind, I was wondering about the source for the right image. Are those numbers supposed to be millimeters? I don't think I got quite that much change in my soft tissue. Do you think the base of your nose widened 1.79mm or the bridge of your nose 1.32mm? I guess it's possible.

 

[Need2Ascend]

Got MSE myself and one of the best decision, only downside is slightly lower ES-ratio (at least in my case not so ideal) but besides that only good points about it

 

[Deleted member 12218]

Never mind, I was wondering about the source for the right image. Are those numbers supposed to be millimeters? I don't think I got quite that much change in my soft tissue. Do you think the base of your nose widened 1.79mm or the bridge of your nose 1.32mm? I guess it's possible.

That’s not my face, yes it is millimeters. Looking at my photos I took(6mm from 0) My nose has widened and my cheekbones to the same degree I’d say but it is very small and subtle. The majority of the change I’ve seen is from inside my mouth.

 

[Need2Ascend]

How about reply to me instead. I could be the most biased man in the world but it wouldn’t matter because I’m just pointing out facts here.

Mse is NOT cope and does it’s promised job. What does it promise? It promises expansion either in the form of teeth tipping or sutural growth.

Facts
If the suture splits, you are garunteed sutural growth which means
1. Increased nasal volume
2. Increases oral volume
3. Reduced chance of sleep disordered breathing due to reason #1 and 2
4. A wider palate
5. Forward expansion of about 1mm(it varies)
6. Reduced dark corners from smile
7. Wider smile
8. Expansion of the midface and zygos

If you disagree with any of these facts let me know, although I think these pictures answer all your questions
View attachment 995229View attachment 995233

In b4 you insult me instead of critique my points.

I kind of doubt the measurements are correct, how should you get 2,5mm IPD increase, more than the increase in mouth and nose width which can't be the case. Wish I had gained that much