MSE + MSDO vs Implants

[PubertyMaxxer]

Keeping in mind cost vs benefit what option is more worthwhile

MSE + MSDO ( you need both if both your palates width is equal)

- Mse can increase Zygo Prominence However its not customizable like implants/fillers

- Msdo can increase Chin Width However not forward projection ( which i need badly) and its also not customizable

- Wide Palate for wider smile are surely legit however not Worth the 30.000€ for this procedure combination. Also i rarely Smile.

- Mouth Width Gains according to Mse proponents : Also legit but hopefully mouth widening surgery by dr eppley will have matured by then


CONCLUSION: If your upper palate is very narrow and narrower than lower MSE alone can be worth it. However for me and most MSE+MSDO Is NOT worth it

 

[PubertyMaxxer]

@Umbra @ItisOver @lilhorizontal32 @Hombremacho @nelson @Mongrelcel @Genny might be interesting for you

 

[Jason Voorhees]

MSDO is a shit tier surgery according to @RealSurgerymax MSDO is not the most aesthetic procedure giving a U-shaped mandibular arc or bow. What you want is a sharp V shaped jaw. It's also a very niche surgery. Not many maxfacs do it.

To quote surgerymax

MSE is a good procedure if you truly need it. It will give very little noticeable difference facially but still a subtle (almost subliminal) improvement in most people, but the biggest reason to have MSE is for a nice wide smile without dark corners.

MSDO is the least aesthetically pleasing of the 3 and IMDO is the most.

An Aesthetic male mandible Is Substantially wider posteriorly than anteriorly (even though a wide chin is masculine the mandibular body should taper inward from the gonial angle connecting to the chin) and MSDO creates the opposite effect in large expansions. That said a small MSDO will not hurt you especially if you truly need to expand the lower arch.

 

[Deleted member 13367]

MSDO is a shit tier surgery according to @RealSurgerymax MSDO is not the most aesthetic procedure giving a U-shaped mandibular arc or bow. What you want is a sharp V shaped jaw. It's also a very niche surgery. Not many maxfacs do it.

To quote surgerymax

Why is MSDO and IMDO even being compared tho?
One affects width and the other forward projection

 

[Jason Voorhees]

Why is MSDO and IMDO even being compared tho?
One affects width and the other forward projection

MSDO and IMDO are both forms of distraction osteogenesis.

IMDO- Inter mandibular distraction osteogenesis

MSDO- Mandibular symphyseal distraction osteogenesis

 

[PubertyMaxxer]

Why is MSDO and IMDO even being compared tho?
One affects width and the other forward projection

Thanks i was wondering the same

 

[coolguy1]

Nobody is getting msdo bro. And even if u were able to I heard it's brutal as fuck.

 

[Jason Voorhees]

Why is MSDO and IMDO even being compared tho?
One affects width and the other forward projection

Also IMDO expands the jaw 3 dimensionally not just fwrd.

 

[Deleted member 13367]

Also IMDO expands the jaw 3 dimensionally not just fwrd.

Its only for niggas with overbite tho, am i right?

 

[Jason Voorhees]

Its only for niggas with overbite tho, am i right?

Severe overbite

 

[PubertyMaxxer]

Severe overbite

Well i technically have perfect occlusion so any normal surgeon will turn me down for my desired aesthetic Bimax + shin shield anyways

Im looking for not-normal surgeons though

 

[Jason Voorhees]

Well i technically have perfect occlusion so any normal surgeon will turn me down for my desired aesthetic Bimax + shin shield anyways

Im looking for not-normal surgeons though

Imdo+Lefort 1 from Dr Paul Coceancig

Surgery & cosmetic dental team (@profilosurgical) • Instagram photos and videos

1,269 Followers, 242 Following, 265 Posts - See Instagram photos and videos from Surgery & cosmetic dental team (@profilosurgical)

instagram.com

 

[AlwaysHaveQuestions]

MSDO and IMDO are both forms of distraction osteogenesis.

IMDO- Inter mandibular distraction osteogenesis

MSDO- Mandibular symphyseal distraction osteogenesis

yes but idt IMDO can substitute MSDO to complement MSE so its stupid to compare them. lmk if im wrong

 

[PubertyMaxxer]

yes but idt IMDO can substitute MSDO to complement MSE so its stupid to compare them. lmk if im wrong

Exactly its a stupid comparison from my point of view

Main benefit of MSDO is equaling out lower palate width with new upper palate width from upper palate MSE expansion and the Chin Width

IMDO is a surgery for overbites

 

[Carolus]

Anyone know of any MSE practitioners in Europe now, or is it still dead?

 

[AlwaysHaveQuestions]

Exactly its a stupid comparison from my point of view

Main benefit of MSDO is equaling out lower palate width with new upper palate width from upper palate MSE expansion and the Chin Width

IMDO is a surgery for overbites

maybe IMDO could be used if you shift the teeths backward or use some modified form of ASO but it depends on how malleable the alv ridge and teeth root is which idk.

 

[PubertyMaxxer]

Anyone know of any MSE practitioners in Europe now, or is it still dead?

Dr Sylvain Chamberland from Quebec City does Both MSE and MSDO in the same intervention

 

[Jason Voorhees]

yes but idt IMDO can substitute MSDO to complement MSE so its stupid to compare them. lmk if im wrong

I'm not sure man. I'm not an orthodontist nor is realsurgerymax but from what I know yes ur right

 

[bossman]

Anyone know of any MSE practitioners in Europe now, or is it still dead?

Sunil Hirani - UK

Christoph Moschik - Germany

@Sergio-OMS - Spain

Think there is some in France but idk

 

[Carolus]

Dr Sylvain Chamberland from Quebec City does Both MSE and MSDO in the same intervention

Damn, Canada is way too far for me

Sunil Hirani - UK

Christoph Moschik - Germany

@Sergio-OMS - Spain

Think there is some in France but idk

Tried contacting Sergio but he's not responding rn
Germany would be the closest tbh, know anything about Christoph Moschik?

 

[bossman]

Germany would be the closest tbh, know anything about Christoph Moschik?

MSE Munich, Christoph Moschik

I am nearly convinced TLDR: MSE 3-4K €, Invisalign 3-4k € Was searching for Doctors in my proximity to do MSE with, since I can not travel to Andrei due to Corona. Found Dr. Christoph Moschik in Munich, worked with Won Moon and does his original MSE. Fucked sleep cycle and sleep deprivation...

looksmax.org

 

[Mongrelcel]

Exactly its a stupid comparison from my point of view

Main benefit of MSDO is equaling out lower palate width with new upper palate width from upper palate MSE expansion and the Chin Width

IMDO is a surgery for overbites

Could you get IMDO without MSE?

So IMDO just for length of lower jaw, and not for width?

 

[Mongrelcel]

@Preston @CompleteFailure @PubertyMaxxer

what would be the best option to correct slight recession?
my lf1 needs movement of just few mm, so lefot 1 seems like an overkill to me

I hope that I could the few mms with facepulling
it's either that, or full blown lf1 osteotomy right?

then bsso or imdo? imdo doesen't seem possible without MSE, and even than IMDO + MSE won't match bite exactly right? MSE expands in one direction, and imdo does in a slightly different one, so the teeth will end up a bit wonky even if the bit generally matches

could orthodontics match bite perfectly after MSE + IMDO?

 

[Carolus]

MSE Munich, Christoph Moschik

I am nearly convinced TLDR: MSE 3-4K €, Invisalign 3-4k € Was searching for Doctors in my proximity to do MSE with, since I can not travel to Andrei due to Corona. Found Dr. Christoph Moschik in Munich, worked with Won Moon and does his original MSE. Fucked sleep cycle and sleep deprivation...

looksmax.org

Interesting, thanks

From my understanding the facial asymmetry aspect of MSE expansion is if one side of the maxilla is more stubborn than the other, one of the MSE screws will travel laterally through the bone and push out your molars instead of expanding the maxilla on that side. If you get the DOME procedure you would negate any upper midface gains and only expand the airway/the roof of the maxilla but you would be ensured to get a symmetrical expansion(according to Ronald)

But what if you just got cortipuncture to the mid palatal suture, would that not expand the midface just like the MSE is intended to do in the first place? Like the picture below, dont do the cuts on the sides of the maxilla and only the middle one

Also I wonder what could be done to expand lower mandible laterally? MSDO for chin, IMDO for mandible forward.. what about posterior mandible width?
@Preston @PubertyMaxxer

 

[PubertyMaxxer]

Interesting, thanks

From my understanding the facial asymmetry aspect of MSE expansion is if one side of the maxilla is more stubborn than the other, one of the MSE screws will travel laterally through the bone and push out your molars instead of expanding the maxilla on that side. If you get the DOME procedure you would negate any upper midface gains and only expand the airway/the roof of the maxilla but you would be ensured to get a symmetrical expansion(according to Ronald)

But what if you just got cortipuncture to the mid palatal suture, would that not expand the midface just like the MSE is intended to do in the first place? Like the picture below, dont do the cuts on the sides of the maxilla and only the middle one
View attachment 1280212

Also I wonder what could be done to expand lower mandible laterally? MSDO for chin, IMDO for mandible forward.. what about posterior mandible width?
@Preston @PubertyMaxxer

Ramus distractors you mean? Thats one option

Another are jaw (angle) implants ofc

 

[Jason Voorhees]

Interesting, thanks

From my understanding the facial asymmetry aspect of MSE expansion is if one side of the maxilla is more stubborn than the other, one of the MSE screws will travel laterally through the bone and push out your molars instead of expanding the maxilla on that side. If you get the DOME procedure you would negate any upper midface gains and only expand the airway/the roof of the maxilla but you would be ensured to get a symmetrical expansion(according to Ronald)

But what if you just got cortipuncture to the mid palatal suture, would that not expand the midface just like the MSE is intended to do in the first place? Like the picture below, dont do the cuts on the sides of the maxilla and only the middle one
View attachment 1280212

Idk I'm not an orthodontist and not qualified enough to answer this. @RealSurgerymax is more knowledgeable than me. He can tell u more about this

Also I wonder what could be done to expand lower mandible laterally? MSDO for chin, IMDO for mandible forward.. what about posterior mandible width?
@Preston @PubertyMaxxer

IMDO expands ur jaw 3 dimensionally.

IMDO™ | For Adults

IMDO™ is a revolutionary way to fix a small jaw and big overbite, with better outcomes and in less time than traditional orthodontics.

www.profilosurgical.com.au

 

[Luke LLL]

I have done 2 MSEs and my palates were equal before, but I needed dental decomposition. My top is now a lot wider but I will be tipping the teeth in because I desire that look.

Most people need to widen the upper palate for dental decompression for jaw surgery so it is needed in most cases anyway.

 

[Deleted member 6892]

Keeping in mind cost vs benefit what option is more worthwhile

MSE + MSDO ( you need both if both your palates width is equal)

- Mse can increase Zygo Prominence However its not customizable like implants/fillers

- Msdo can increase Chin Width However not forward projection ( which i need badly) and its also not customizable

- Wide Palate for wider smile are surely legit however not Worth the 30.000€ for this procedure combination. Also i rarely Smile.

- Mouth Width Gains according to Mse proponents : Also legit but hopefully mouth widening surgery by dr eppley will have matured by then


CONCLUSION: If your upper palate is very narrow and narrower than lower MSE alone can be worth it. However for me and most MSE+MSDO Is NOT worth it

I need them both badly but not as much as a bimax so its not worth getting for me either. Like sure in a pipe dream world I’d get mse+msdo then follow up with Bimax then start with implants but realistically mse+msdo costs way too much for the aesthetic benefits youre getting.

 

[Carolus]

I have done 2 MSEs and my palates were equal before, but I needed dental decomposition. My top is now a lot wider but I will be tipping the teeth in because I desire that look.
View attachment 1280694
Most people need to widen the upper palate for dental decompression for jaw surgery so it is needed in most cases anyway.

Elaborate on dental decomrpession? Why is it required to widen upper palate before surgery

 

[Luke LLL]

Elaborate on dental decomrpession? Why is it required to widen upper palate before surgery

Dental decomposition requires room usually

 

[Genny]

MSE doesn't do shit for soft tissue unless you want a wider nose.