PAGNONI CONSULT DISASTER

[vnw[oggwg]

Did a virtual consult with Pagnoni and it was a total failure.

I sent him CTs, high res pictures of my face and cephs and he obviously looked at them prior to us speaking but what he said completely blew me away. I had already said in my initial email that I wanted leftort I, BSSO, genio and malar and infraorbital implants and that I was looking for an orthodontist in my own country who would prep my teeth for surgery. Instead of addressing any of it he gave me a bluepilled speech and told me to get orthodontics.

Pags - beauty is subjective some people need to get surgery and other people don't, people can still be attractive despite not having perfect features

Me - ok but I want surgery what would you do in my case?

Pags - you have to go to an orthodontist and get decompensation in your upper and lower jaw first and then repeat all of your CTs and xrays and do another consultation.

Me - ok can we talk about any of the potential movements you would do on me if my teeth were aligned?

Pags - no there's no point talking about anything not until you get decompensation

Me - I don't even know what to ask you or talk about now if we can't discuss surgery

Pags - well maybe I will talk to you after you do the orthodontic work then, goodbye!

He spoke to me for around 5 minutes total, he was polite but very blunt and tbh I felt like a complete retard getting BTFO like that. I called and emailed a bunch of orthodontists in my city asking about working with overseas surgeons and never found one by the deadline of the consult so it was partly my fault but I at least expected him to maybe talk about what surgeries he would do. What do I even do now? Do I consult Ramieri and try him?

I traced a picture of me into paint to post here but my side profile is absolutely subhuman tier and there's no surgeon on the planet who would unironically not recommend trimax to me.

 

[tweaqo]

Cant see the pics, the file won’t open. Send again

 

[lurking truecel]

He said you are so cooked i wont even give my time to you inkwell

Beauty is subjective and you are ugly - pag

 

[Acquiescence]

 

[_Lucius]

Do you have malocclusion or asymmetry? Most of reputable surgeons won’t operate on you otherwise. Ramieri will probably be even harsher

 

[Acquiescence]

You gotta remember these guys are farming us for paychecks so they’re gonna want to keep the conveyer belt of clients moving asap. And demand is so high they can afford to be very blunt and to the point

At least it seems the implication is he’ll do trimax so long as you get your ortho sorted out first though right? Keep on hunting around for an overseas compatible one then go from there ig. Although you’d think he’d need to be working with the ortho directly to coordinate what decomp movements are necessary for the eventual surgery… just find a good ortho and get them in contact maybe

 

[yussimania]

JFL you can't just go to an ortho and ask for decomp - it has to be tailored towards a specific movement

Looks like Pagnoni doesn't care about working with incels anymore

I bet he just laughs to himself after going through each of the free consults he gives out

 

[lurking truecel]

You gotta remember these guys are farming us for paychecks so they’re gonna want to keep the conveyer belt of clients moving asap. And demand is so high they can afford to be very blunt and to the point.

At least it seems the implication is he’ll do trimax so long as you get your ortho sorted out first though right? Keep on hunting around for an overseas compatible one then go from there ig. Although you’d think he’d need to be working with the ortho directly to coordinate what decomp movements are necessary for the eventual surgery… just find a good ortho and get them in contact maybe

I mean they want people to move like catel now, one botch at a time no wasting time on rotten flesh beforehand

 

[LEFORT17]

JFL you can't just go to an ortho and ask for decomp - it has to be tailored towards a specific movement

Looks like Pagnoni doesn't care about working with incels anymore

I bet he just laughs to himself after going through each of the free consults he gives out

i think they arent free anymore cuz of that specific reason lol

 

[_Lucius]

JFL you can't just go to an ortho and ask for decomp - it has to be tailored towards a specific movement

Looks like Pagnoni doesn't care about working with incels anymore

I bet he just laughs to himself after going through each of the free consults he gives out

Yeah ortho has to coordinate with surgeon for decompensation. If this is true, Pagnoni sounds even worse than I thought

 

[lurking truecel]

JFL you can't just go to an ortho and ask for decomp - it has to be tailored towards a specific movement

Looks like Pagnoni doesn't care about working with incels anymore

I bet he just laughs to himself after going through each of the free consults he gives out

he just wish they were right infront of him so he could blew a big as vape smoke right in their faces. And say its totally over bruh

 

[_Lucius]

he just wish they were right infront of him so he could blew a big as vape smoke right in their faces. And say its totally over bruh

This is what Raffaini does and why he only does in person consultations. Straight up roasts patients and calls them ugly

 

[lurking truecel]

This is what Raffaini does and why he only does in person consultations. Straight up roasts patients and calls them ugly

Its over man but i can make you poor too - raffaini

 

[LEFORT17]

This is what Raffaini does and why he only does in person consultations. Straight up roasts patients and calls them ugly

read that some times on reddit lol even heard a female left the consult crying cuz of raffs behaviour. even the secretary knows it and told patients that his normal way to talk to them

 

[LEFORT17]

Its over man but i can make you poor too - raffaini

i will make fun of your disguisting face and take 30k for surgery to let you feel like a normal human -

 

[_Lucius]

read that some times on reddit lol even heard a female left the consult crying cuz of raffs behaviour. even the secretary knows it and told patients that his normal way to talk to them

We sure this guy isn’t satan?

 

[LEFORT17]

View attachment 4921835
We sure this guy isn’t satan?

retarded to go italy now anyways. he was 10k 3-4 years ago lol. the social media hype made this guy feel like god

 

[_Lucius]

retarded to go italy now anyways. he was 10k 3-4 years ago lol. the social media hype made this guy feel like god

Alfaro in Spain will overadvance you, the trio in Spain will overcharge, local hospital surgeons cheap out on standard plates and conservative movements. It’s over for us Europeans

 

[LEFORT17]

Alfaro in Spain will overadvance you, the trio in Spain will overcharge, local hospital surgeons cheap out on standard plates and conservative movements. It’s over for us Europeans

hmm def true for alfaro and the italiens, but 100% not over for europeans. there are some very good surgeons in france, germany even romania who are very affordable and skilled

 

[lurking truecel]

Alfaro in Spain will overadvance you, the trio in Spain will overcharge, local hospital surgeons cheap out on standard plates and conservative movements. It’s over for us Europeans

But many will break your jaw for free tough

 

[Acquiescence]

Alfaro in Spain will overadvance you, the trio in Spain will overcharge, local hospital surgeons cheap out on standard plates and conservative movements. It’s over for us Europeans

Come to Cuckmerica where you have the privilege of forking out 150k in hospital fees for a 2 mm advancement!!!

 

[_Lucius]

hmm def true for alfaro and the italiens, but 100% not over for europeans. there are some very good surgeons in france, germany even romania who are very affordable and skilled

The issue is finding these surgeons. They don’t market themselves, only work through word of mouth in their line of work. You won’t see their results unless you do a 150€ consultation, so its a gamble

 

[LEFORT17]

The issue is finding these surgeons. They don’t market themselves, only work through word of mouth in their line of work. You won’t see their results unless you do a 150€ consultation, so its a gamble

i might got lucky but i found that type of surgeon for me. almost 0 media presence, experienced and skilled, guy is even close with sailer. hes very based too getting me everything i want through insurance. another guy on here which im close to will go to him too

 

[ascension to heaven]

Alfaro in Spain will overadvance you, the trio in Spain will overcharge, local hospital surgeons cheap out on standard plates and conservative movements. It’s over for us Europeans

damn, i guess there are only 6 surgeons in europe, poor europeans

we should send humanitarian helps so they could afford to have more than 6 surgeons in the whole continent

 

[ascension to heaven]

i might got lucky but i found that type of surgeon for me. almost 0 media presence, experienced and skilled, guy is even close with sailer. hes very based too getting me everything i want through insurance. another guy on here which im close to will go to him too

rené foltán ?

 

[LEFORT17]

rené foltán ?

nah

 

[Tool]

OP, Pagnoni just hinted you that your case is very inconvenient to operate on, which is very visible in your paint image. I have no idea if your profile can even be rotated to normality, but what do I know.. Poor guy @lurking truecel

 

[jon_chase89]

This is the surgeon equivalent of a contractor quoting a price 3x too high on a job they don't want. I don't know exactly why he decided he didn't want you as a patient, but that's what happened

 

[kaydd]

Obviously you are down grown, ccw wouldn’t help much so why didn't u ask for jaw angles?

 

[Prøphet]

Pagnoni has lost it recently

I think at this point turkey is the best bet

 

[tyler1234]

He’s not wrong u can’t really do anything till ur decomped

 

[lurking truecel]

He’s not wrong u can’t really do anything till ur decomped

I mean even when i was about to have surgery with him, he did plans on me and everything. When i asked him once in email i think he thought i was someone else and said i will do it when you decomp. I guess he hates people not being decomped and wanting useless plans and plans that change when teeth change. I really get him 100%

 

[savemebimax]

Consultations with surgeons are humiliation rituals you have to endure

 

[Foreverbrad]

JFL you can't just go to an ortho and ask for decomp - it has to be tailored towards a specific movement

In theory you can but in practice they won’t agree to it.

“Move the teeth so they will fit together in a class 1 relationship” is pretty much a geometry problem.

 

[LackEmpathyTherefor]

In theory you can but in practice they won’t agree to it.

“Move the teeth so they will fit together in a class 1 relationship” is pretty much a geometry problem.

i changed surgeon three times during my 2 yrs decomp phase.
And i gave the wrong email address of ortho to my surgeon so they basically couldn’t communicate HAHA
Still got some good shit. He decompensated well and all.
Now 1-2 more months and iam off braces mashallaaahh

 

[tyler1234]

i changed surgeon three times during my 2 yrs decomp phase.
And i gave the wrong email address of ortho to my surgeon so they basically couldn’t communicate HAHA
Still got some good shit. He decompensated well and all.
Now 1-2 more months and iam off braces mashallaaahh

What surgeon u using

 

[horsefacin]

Looks like Pagnoni doesn't care about working with incels anymore

I bet he just laughs to himself after going through each of the free consults he gives out

guys just a fucking asshole. waiting for your consult and being treated like this i cant imagine the irl consults like lurkcel said, imagine having some shitty vape blown in ur face while being told u wasted ur time

 

[CopeTilliRope]

Consultations with surgeons are humiliation rituals you have to endure

this X1000000 you guys just arent used to it but basically most have gods complex and you have to mentally prepare to get brutally humiliated and treated like a child.


got many stories like yours with french surgeons and derms you got to always expect the worst from every consult

 

[RazerGlazer]

Did a virtual consult with Pagnoni and it was a total failure.

I sent him CTs, high res pictures of my face and cephs and he obviously looked at them prior to us speaking but what he said completely blew me away. I had already said in my initial email that I wanted leftort I, BSSO, genio and malar and infraorbital implants and that I was looking for an orthodontist in my own country who would prep my teeth for surgery. Instead of addressing any of it he gave me a bluepilled speech and told me to get orthodontics.

Pags - beauty is subjective some people need to get surgery and other people don't, people can still be attractive despite not having perfect features

Me - ok but I want surgery what would you do in my case?

Pags - you have to go to an orthodontist and get decompensation in your upper and lower jaw first and then repeat all of your CTs and xrays and do another consultation.

Me - ok can we talk about any of the potential movements you would do on me if my teeth were aligned?

Pags - no there's no point talking about anything not until you get decompensation

Me - I don't even know what to ask you or talk about now if we can't discuss surgery

Pags - well maybe I will talk to you after you do the orthodontic work then, goodbye!

He spoke to me for around 5 minutes total, he was polite but very blunt and tbh I felt like a complete retard getting BTFO like that. I called and emailed a bunch of orthodontists in my city asking about working with overseas surgeons and never found one by the deadline of the consult so it was partly my fault but I at least expected him to maybe talk about what surgeries he would do. What do I even do now? Do I consult Ramieri and try him?

I traced a picture of me into paint to post here but my side profile is absolutely subhuman tier and there's no surgeon on the planet who would unironically not recommend trimax to me.

beauty is subjective

meanwhile him:

you cant make this shit up

 

[monk321]

no shit italians are dogshit money driven psychopaths hope you learned your lesson and go to a true professional

 

[Lookologist003]

got many stories like yours with french surgeons and derms you got to always expect the worst from every consult

Can you link me? I didn't know that these consultations could be so emotionally stressful. I thought it would be hopeful and comforting because there's some movement in your life.

 

[Lookologist003]

"Well looks only get you so far"

 

[vnw[oggwg]

Do you have malocclusion or asymmetry? Most of reputable surgeons won’t operate on you otherwise. Ramieri will probably be even harsher

I'm actually a class 1 my occlusion is actually correct from braces but I'm obviously recessed. My face is really asymmetrical from the front and my whole jaw is wonky on my right side.

You gotta remember these guys are farming us for paychecks so they’re gonna want to keep the conveyer belt of clients moving asap. And demand is so high they can afford to be very blunt and to the point

At least it seems the implication is he’ll do trimax so long as you get your ortho sorted out first though right? Keep on hunting around for an overseas compatible one then go from there ig. Although you’d think he’d need to be working with the ortho directly to coordinate what decomp movements are necessary for the eventual surgery… just find a good ortho and get them in contact maybe

lmagine I find an ortho in Australia who is prepared to work with some rando italian surgeon and then I consult with pags again and he says "no I won't operate on you"

Come to Cuckmerica where you have the privilege of forking out 150k in hospital fees for a 2 mm advancement!!!

That's the big hurdle. I have $100k USD saved up from wagecelling but literally all of it would be gone paying hospital bills if I went to Walline, Gunson, Bell.

i changed surgeon three times during my 2 yrs decomp phase.
And i gave the wrong email address of ortho to my surgeon so they basically couldn’t communicate HAHA
Still got some good shit. He decompensated well and all.
Now 1-2 more months and iam off braces mashallaaahh

Who did you end up getting to operate on you?

beauty is subjective

meanwhile him:View attachment 4923554

you cant make this shit up

Dude it was ropefuel getting mogged by this NW0 guy on zoom in his clean white studio with good lighting

 

[LEFORT17]

i changed surgeon three times during my 2 yrs decomp phase.
And i gave the wrong email address of ortho to my surgeon so they basically couldn’t communicate HAHA
Still got some good shit. He decompensated well and all.
Now 1-2 more months and iam off braces mashallaaahh

why did you change that often?

 

[horsefacin]

this X1000000 you guys just arent used to it but basically most have gods complex and you have to mentally prepare to get brutally humiliated and treated like a child.

i’m happy i found an altruistic surgeon with sub100 instagram followers. i couldn’t imagine trying to contact and go through with any of the big guys if you aren’t already white and with an ok base.

i saw an interesting thread on here about how being sub5 does no favors walking into a consult. not only are surgeons not immune to lookism but they also 99% want a good, publishable B/A. a sub5 walking in is like already rotting meat lol. even if they do decide to proceed with your case, it’s likely less effort will be put into something like say an already good looking girl. he’s working on a masterpiece right there but for you, it’s “whatever, i’ll see what i can do.” str8 backburner shit brutal

 

[kaydd]

i’m happy i found an altruistic surgeon with sub100 instagram followers. i couldn’t imagine trying to contact and go through with any of the big guys if you aren’t already white and with an ok base.

i saw an interesting thread on here about how being sub5 does no favors walking into a consult. not only are surgeons not immune to lookism but they also 99% want a good, publishable B/A. a sub5 walking in is like already rotting meat lol. even if they do decide to proceed with your case, it’s likely less effort will be put into something like say an already good looking girl. he’s working on a masterpiece right there but for you, it’s “whatever, i’ll see what i can do.” str8 backburner shit brutal

holy fuck never thought of it like that

 

[vermicel]

lmagine I find an ortho in Australia who is prepared to work with some rando italian surgeon

Why bothering with an Italian surgeon, when one of the best trimax results from these past months came out of Australia ?

The Australian doctor in charge of this surgery is Mehrnoosh Nu Dastaran, based in Melbourne https://omfs.com.au/specialist/dr-mehrnoosh-nu-dastaran/

Here's a FB group dedicated to jaw surgery in Australia : https://www.facebook.com/groups/715136333538032/
You'll probably find other local recommendations there.
Maybe you'll even find a local surgeon who can place your infra-malar implant just as well as Pag would.

P.-S. I see that you already posted in this other thread earlier today, which contains interesting info about Medicare/PHI's coverage of jaw surgery : https://looksmax.org/threads/best-countries-for-trimax.1850953/

 

[LEFORT17]

holy fuck never thought of it like that

thats 100% not true for majority of surgeons. surely there will be those narcistic ones feeling like god himself, on the other hand you can find chill kind surgeons willing to give their best for you.

 

[kaydd]

thats 100% not true for majority of surgeons. surely there will be those narcistic ones feeling like god himself, on the other hand you can find chill kind surgeons willing to give their best for you.

how much more i gotta add to the checklist for finding a good surgeon 🫩🫩🫩🫩

 

[LEFORT17]

how much more i gotta add to the checklist for finding a good surgeon 🫩🫩🫩🫩

just keep getting consults. i learned it the hard way too. first surgeon brutally rejected me for bimax. second guy instantly agreed lol.