Pagnoni, Ramieri, Zarrinbal consultations on lower third height. (genio/chin wing)

[PlagiocephalyTypeIV]

So I consulted with 3 doctors. I basically need lower third height to improve my aesthetics. I don’t need DJS. My chin has a good shape and is angled outwards. My other flaw/failo would probably be very flat cheek bones but overall it doesn’t disturb my facial harmony due to my low eyelid exposure and the risk of looking more feminine and having a round/bulky cheek area is a real concern for me. If I ever tried to improve that area I had to be very sure that they are straight/masculine implants. Basically the shape of my cheek bones but with more mass. Other than that I have a slight deep bite but it would be way too time consuming to fix it and it’s very subtle. Dr. Z Even said it is not an overbite/deep bite, just the way my lips lay. I have already gotten a rhino( all 3 of the surgeons said it is a very good nose, only zarrinbal commented on it being a little too upturned,delicate for a man but that is critique on a very high level he said. I also had a hair transplant to fix my giant ass forehead. Result is very very natural. People don’t realize that 95% of transplants are absolute shit. I actually made a lot of research on hair transplants and would consider myself quite an expert for normal people. So if anyone has questions, you can ask.

But now about the main problem:

Pagnoni wants to do a genioplasty to improve chin height and if needed add a little width. He seems very open to do any procedure you want. I don’t think that has to be a bad thing. But it can be.

Ramieri also suggested genioplasty to increase lower third heights. I asked him what I could do to fix my slight deep bite/overbite and he said braces for 8-10 months and then lower jaw advancement. After thinking about it I don’t want to do it because it doesn’t really bother me.

Dr. Z suggested chin wing. He said he likes it way more than a normal genio. He said chin wing is like a genio on speed. He quoted 9k for Ching wing. Also Z said that on the CT-scan my chin looks rather longish that shortish but then I showed him a picture without beard and he agreed with me.

Now I wanted to ask you guys what surgeon you would choose for a genioplasty/chin wing (mostly vertical Movement ). I have no doubt that all of the 3 surgeons are able to produce a good result. I would like to go with Ramieri but I don’t want to be underadvanced as people say on here. But if I straight up tell him not to underadvance me and talk about my needs with 100% honesty it should not be a concern right ? Also I am not really recessed , just need lower third height.

What are your thoughts?

 

[normie_joe]

So I consulted with 3 doctors. I basically need lower third height to improve my aesthetics. I don’t need DJS. My chin has a good shape and is angled outwards. My other flaw/failo would probably be very flat cheek bones but overall it doesn’t disturb my facial harmony due to my low eyelid exposure and the risk of looking more feminine and having a round/bulky cheek area is a real concern for me. If I ever tried to improve that area I had to be very sure that they are straight/masculine implants. Basically the shape of my cheek bones but with more mass. Other than that I have a slight deep bite but it would be way too time consuming to fix it and it’s very subtle. Dr. Z Even said it is not an overbite/deep bite, just the way my lips lay. I have already gotten a rhino( all 3 of the surgeons said it is a very good nose, only zarrinbal commented on it being a little too upturned,delicate for a man but that is critique on a very high level he said. I also had a hair transplant to fix my giant ass forehead. Result is very very natural. People don’t realize that 95% of transplants are absolute shit. I actually made a lot of research on hair transplants and would consider myself quite an expert for normal people. So if anyone has questions, you can ask.

But now about the main problem:

Pagnoni wants to do a genioplasty to improve chin height and if needed add a little width. He seems very open to do any procedure you want. I don’t think that has to be a bad thing. But it can be.

Ramieri also suggested genioplasty to increase lower third heights. I asked him what I could do to fix my slight deep bite/overbite and he said braces for 8-10 months and then lower jaw advancement. After thinking about it I don’t want to do it because it doesn’t really bother me.

Dr. Z suggested chin wing. He said he likes it way more than a normal genio. He said chin wing is like a genio on speed. He quoted 9k for Ching wing. Also Z said that on the CT-scan my chin looks rather longish that shortish but then I showed him a picture without beard and he agreed with me.

Now I wanted to ask you guys what surgeon you would choose for a genioplasty/chin wing (mostly vertical Movement ). I have no doubt that all of the 3 surgeons are able to produce a good result. I would like to go with Ramieri but I don’t want to be underadvanced as people say on here. But if I straight up tell him not to underadvance me and talk about my needs with 100% honesty it should not be a concern right ? Also I am not really recessed , just need lower third height.

What are your thoughts?

Do you have pics? Upload just the lower half.

 

[PlagiocephalyTypeIV]

Do you have pics? Upload just the lower half.

Face is fat right now because I’m bulking up. Philtrum is 0.8cm btw LMAO

 

[Deleted member 2816]

Face is fat right now because I’m bulking up. Philtrum is 0.8cm btw LMAO

Your lower third is fine tf. That’s not what’s stopping you from getting women

 

[PlagiocephalyTypeIV]

Your lower third is fine tf. That’s not what’s stopping you from getting women

Trust me if I showed you the rest of my face you would say that I‘d look better with a longer lower third.

 

[Deleted member 23218]

Trust me if I showed you the rest of my face you would say that I‘d look better with a longer lower third.

Isn’t genio the lower risk option? Not sure if the aestetif difference between a genio and a chin wing justifies the additional risk

 

[BrownEyesWD]

Face is fat right now because I’m bulking up. Philtrum is 0.8cm btw LMAO

Your chin height looks good in this picture. Especially in comparison to your philtrum.
Have the surgeons said the vertical movement in mm?

 

[PlagiocephalyTypeIV]

Isn’t genio the lower risk option? Not sure if the aestetif difference between a genio and a chin wing justifies the additional risk

Im not sure which one is riskier. I will probably go for genio with Ramieri. Will have my 2nd consult on Monday

 

[PlagiocephalyTypeIV]

Your lower third is fine tf. That’s not what’s stopping you from getting women

It looks fine when not compared to the rest of my face. I need 5-7mm more lower third length. A prominent lower third almost always looks better in men.

 

[DeformedCell]

Your philtrum to chin ratio is already like 3 jfl

 

[dakchuh]

Face is fat right now because I’m bulking up. Philtrum is 0.8cm btw LMAO

chin looks kind of narrow and gonions too high, but hard to say with your chubby face. post your full face with your eyes blurred out if you want a better judgment

 

[PlagiocephalyTypeIV]

chin looks kind of narrow and gonions too high, but hard to say with your chubby face. post your full face with your eyes blurred out if you want a better judgment

 

[Deleted member 18582]

did you happen to find out how much they are each charging for bimax

 

[dakchuh]

ngl you might look a lil uncanny if you gave your chin any more height because your philtrum is already pretty small. your forehead looks big its like your entire midface needs to be shifted up and entire head needs to be narrower. prognosis: slavcel potato head. its over.

 

[PlagiocephalyTypeIV]

ngl you might look a lil uncanny if you gave your chin any more height because your philtrum is already pretty small. your forehead looks big its like your entire midface needs to be shifted up and entire head needs to be narrower. prognosis: slavcel potato head. its over.

Nah you can’t see my eyebrows in this pic. Every third

 

[PlagiocephalyTypeIV]

ngl you might look a lil uncanny if you gave your chin any more height because your philtrum is already pretty small. your forehead looks big its like your entire midface needs to be shifted up and entire head needs to be narrower. prognosis: slavcel potato head. its over.

Nah every third is about 6cm

 

[Intricately]

I had DJS and chin wing with Z and he did an excellent job. To my eye your gonial angle seems too high in comparison to the rest of your features. Therefore, especially if you add chin height, I would also add height to the gonions. A chin wing could do your chin and jaw angles simultaneously. If you go with Ramieri/Pagnoni you could do genio + jaw angle implants.

I consulted with Ramieri and Pagnoni as well and while I do like Ramieri, Pagnoni felt kind of too perfect to be true. Literally said there are no risks with PEEK implants which reeks of fraud imo. Z's chinwing would obviously be the cheapest option, but dont overestimate the ability of a chinwing to add height. It is somewhat limited.

 

[mvp2v1]

I had DJS and chin wing with Z and he did an excellent job. To my eye your gonial angle seems too high in comparison to the rest of your features. Therefore, especially if you add chin height, I would also add height to the gonions. A chin wing could do your chin and jaw angles simultaneously. If you go with Ramieri/Pagnoni you could do genio + jaw angle implants.

I consulted with Ramieri and Pagnoni as well and while I do like Ramieri, Pagnoni felt kind of too perfect to be true. Literally said there are no risks with PEEK implants which reeks of fraud imo. Z's chinwing would obviously be the cheapest option, but dont overestimate the ability of a chinwing to add height. It is somewhat limited.

what are your thoughts on custom side wings to replicate the effects of peek jaw angle implants?

Jaw aesthetics - frontal analysis

It's time to add another chapter of brutal blackpill to the jaw surgery database. This is all about jaw angles and jaw width. The preferred jaw angle has these characteristics: 130° in face profile view, intergonial width similar to facial width, vertical position in frontal view at the oral...

looksmax.org

 

[PlagiocephalyTypeIV]

I had DJS and chin wing with Z and he did an excellent job. To my eye your gonial angle seems too high in comparison to the rest of your features. Therefore, especially if you add chin height, I would also add height to the gonions. A chin wing could do your chin and jaw angles simultaneously. If you go with Ramieri/Pagnoni you could do genio + jaw angle implants.

I consulted with Ramieri and Pagnoni as well and while I do like Ramieri, Pagnoni felt kind of too perfect to be true. Literally said there are no risks with PEEK implants which reeks of fraud imo. Z's chinwing would obviously be the cheapest option, but dont overestimate the ability of a chinwing to add height. It is somewhat limited.

Thanks for the input. I will talk to Ramieri about it. Do you know how much genio plus jaw angle implants would be ? What about the risk of jaw angle implants ?

 

[PlagiocephalyTypeIV]

I had DJS and chin wing with Z and he did an excellent job. To my eye your gonial angle seems too high in comparison to the rest of your features. Therefore, especially if you add chin height, I would also add height to the gonions. A chin wing could do your chin and jaw angles simultaneously. If you go with Ramieri/Pagnoni you could do genio + jaw angle implants.

I consulted with Ramieri and Pagnoni as well and while I do like Ramieri, Pagnoni felt kind of too perfect to be true. Literally said there are no risks with PEEK implants which reeks of fraud imo. Z's chinwing would obviously be the cheapest option, but dont overestimate the ability of a chinwing to add height. It is somewhat limited.

I agree. Pagnoni seemed to perfect. Did not talk about any risks while Ramieri and Z did. I have the best feeling about Ramieri.
Btw. It is very interesting to go into detail about facial aesthetics. I literally never even thought about my gonial angle but it is important to be aware about it. I don’t want to look worse of course.

 

[wollet2]

Trust me if I showed you the rest of my face you would say that I‘d look better with a longer lower third.

i can already see your lower third being short

the other guy that made the comment is rly not experienced at lower third stuff

 

[wollet2]

as expected. your lower third is noticeably shorter than your other 2 thirds

mandible looks short, you would look better with a taller chin

 

[FinasterideAt17]

You look like you have an underbite, even if you say it's not significant. Braces and lower jaw advancement is the only sensible Option imo.

 

[WhatsMonogamy]

I had DJS and chin wing with Z and he did an excellent job. To my eye your gonial angle seems too high in comparison to the rest of your features. Therefore, especially if you add chin height, I would also add height to the gonions. A chin wing could do your chin and jaw angles simultaneously. If you go with Ramieri/Pagnoni you could do genio + jaw angle implants.

I consulted with Ramieri and Pagnoni as well and while I do like Ramieri, Pagnoni felt kind of too perfect to be true. Literally said there are no risks with PEEK implants which reeks of fraud imo. Z's chinwing would obviously be the cheapest option, but dont overestimate the ability of a chinwing to add height. It is somewhat limited.

DJS and chinwing go together? isnt bsso and chinwing incompatible? would you pm results?

 

[PlagiocephalyTypeIV]

You look like you have an underbite, even if you say it's not significant. Braces and lower jaw advancement is the only sensible Option imo.

I don’t have an underbite at all

 

[PlagiocephalyTypeIV]

View attachment 2275962
as expected. your lower third is noticeably shorter than your other 2 thirds

mandible looks short, you would look better with a taller chin

I think this picture is misleading as you can’t see the start of my eyebrows. All my thirds are about 6cm. My lower third is the longest but only by a couple of mm.

 

[FinasterideAt17]

I don’t have an underbite at all

looks like it from front butr post a pic of your profile. in any case genio hwne occlusion isnt ideal isnt the way to go

 

[Mr.Proper]

Any leaner pics? Tbh your mouth width small compared to jaw width, creating an illusion of kinda chubby/childish face even though it's not. And I agree your lower third seems smaller in the whole view. Do you have any signs of a mild short face syndrome?
My case is a that I have kinda not enough lower third height, ramus is okay and mandible not recessed but short, chin is vertically small, similar to sfs. I'm considering a mini ching wing, although it's not of high priority, my bite is OK and proportions ain't too brutal.

 

[Intricately]

what are your thoughts on custom side wings to replicate the effects of peek jaw angle implants?

Jaw aesthetics - frontal analysis

It's time to add another chapter of brutal blackpill to the jaw surgery database. This is all about jaw angles and jaw width. The preferred jaw angle has these characteristics: 130° in face profile view, intergonial width similar to facial width, vertical position in frontal view at the oral...

looksmax.org

View attachment 2275421

The before and afters you posted here are not the same person from what I know. The person in the before is a guy called StupidJaws who posted on jawsurgeryforums. If you look up the old threads of this guy, you will find his real after pic, which looks great. He had a DJS in Italy and then 2 chinwings with the Z and fillers afterwards. Ended up rly well. Dr Z told me a bit about him and his story, I think he's spanish.

My thought on sidewing (idk what you mean by custom):
Pros: your own bone is used, reduced risk of infection, some really good results by Z
Cons: its much more invasive (Im still somewhat struggling from my first chinwing 1 year later, a bit numb on my chin), its less predictable, if you need massive change it is somewhat limited, bone graft could potentially be resorbed in the following years and the result will fade slightly.

Something alot of people dont know is that the sidewing has the same cut as the chinwing, the entire mandibular border is cut off, not just the sides. Another small downside of the chinwing/sidewing that nobody talks about is how fucking annoying it is to sleep on your back for months.

Z absolutely hates implants unfortunately. But his aesthetic eye is unique

 

[Intricately]

DJS and chinwing go together? isnt bsso and chinwing incompatible? would you pm results?

if you do DJS + chinwing he will do high cut bsso instead of regular one

 

[Intricately]

I agree. Pagnoni seemed to perfect. Did not talk about any risks while Ramieri and Z did. I have the best feeling about Ramieri.
Btw. It is very interesting to go into detail about facial aesthetics. I literally never even thought about my gonial angle but it is important to be aware about it. I don’t want to look worse of course.

It's crazy how everybody has the exact same feeling about Pagnoni. Guy is either a genius or a butcher but I suspect the latter. You dont ever play down risks as a surgeon if you're reputable. Especially not since jaw implants are known to have major downsides

 

[Deleted member 3679]

I had DJS and chin wing with Z and he did an excellent job. To my eye your gonial angle seems too high in comparison to the rest of your features. Therefore, especially if you add chin height, I would also add height to the gonions. A chin wing could do your chin and jaw angles simultaneously. If you go with Ramieri/Pagnoni you could do genio + jaw angle implants.

I consulted with Ramieri and Pagnoni as well and while I do like Ramieri, Pagnoni felt kind of too perfect to be true. Literally said there are no risks with PEEK implants which reeks of fraud imo. Z's chinwing would obviously be the cheapest option, but dont overestimate the ability of a chinwing to add height. It is somewhat limited.

I got PEEK midface from Pags and have had zero issues... the thing is Pagnoni uses a denser form of PEEK that is CNC 3d printed then screwed in with titanium. The only real risk is if the implant is installed incorrectly or if it is the wrong size (too big, etc). But from an implant standpoint, when properly installed that shit does not move and causes minimal bone erosion compared to silicone.

 

[dbs]

You need lengthening of the lower third.

You also need the width reduced. The pictures aren't great but I had Botox into the parotids and it leaned my face down. I had it to the masseters before but that blunted the jaw angle too much.

I think combing these two things will work

 

[Meister!]

So I consulted with 3 doctors. I basically need lower third height to improve my aesthetics. I don’t need DJS. My chin has a good shape and is angled outwards. My other flaw/failo would probably be very flat cheek bones but overall it doesn’t disturb my facial harmony due to my low eyelid exposure and the risk of looking more feminine and having a round/bulky cheek area is a real concern for me. If I ever tried to improve that area I had to be very sure that they are straight/masculine implants. Basically the shape of my cheek bones but with more mass. Other than that I have a slight deep bite but it would be way too time consuming to fix it and it’s very subtle. Dr. Z Even said it is not an overbite/deep bite, just the way my lips lay. I have already gotten a rhino( all 3 of the surgeons said it is a very good nose, only zarrinbal commented on it being a little too upturned,delicate for a man but that is critique on a very high level he said. I also had a hair transplant to fix my giant ass forehead. Result is very very natural. People don’t realize that 95% of transplants are absolute shit. I actually made a lot of research on hair transplants and would consider myself quite an expert for normal people. So if anyone has questions, you can ask.

But now about the main problem:

Pagnoni wants to do a genioplasty to improve chin height and if needed add a little width. He seems very open to do any procedure you want. I don’t think that has to be a bad thing. But it can be.

Ramieri also suggested genioplasty to increase lower third heights. I asked him what I could do to fix my slight deep bite/overbite and he said braces for 8-10 months and then lower jaw advancement. After thinking about it I don’t want to do it because it doesn’t really bother me.

Dr. Z suggested chin wing. He said he likes it way more than a normal genio. He said chin wing is like a genio on speed. He quoted 9k for Ching wing. Also Z said that on the CT-scan my chin looks rather longish that shortish but then I showed him a picture without beard and he agreed with me.

Now I wanted to ask you guys what surgeon you would choose for a genioplasty/chin wing (mostly vertical Movement ). I have no doubt that all of the 3 surgeons are able to produce a good result. I would like to go with Ramieri but I don’t want to be underadvanced as people say on here. But if I straight up tell him not to underadvance me and talk about my needs with 100% honesty it should not be a concern right ? Also I am not really recessed , just need lower third height.

What are your thoughts?

What made me decide against Dr. Z was that he was not willing to do 3D work and planning on me. He is old school and prefers doing freehand work. He also studied art before medicine and he is open about it. When I was in his office he was able to draw my side profile with shocking accuracy in mere seconds. He also does not go for big "all in one" surgeries he likes to split them up. He has 2 well known ascensions under his belt so he definetly is a good pick but not for everyone. If I was in your shoes my money would be on pagnoni he will do anything as long as it is reasonable and honestly these days you should get your surgery and Implants planned by someone that is knowledgeable.