Plant-based diet correlates with greater sperm mobility, density, and overall fertility

[Reckless Turtle]

It's over for spermcel animal product eaters.

Results of this study stated that greater adherence to the healthful plant-based diet index (hPDI), can significantly increase sperm density and motility in men, as well as greater adherence to the PDI dietary pattern is related to a lower risk of sperm volume deficiency, and ultimately more adherence to the unhealthful plant-based diet index (uPDI), can reduce the risk of sperm motility.

The Relationship between Plant-Based Diet Index and Semen Parameters of Men with Infertility: A Cross-Sectional Study - PubMed

In this study, for the first time, the relationship between PDI, hPDI, uPDI and male infertility was evaluated. Altogether, this study demonstrated that nutrition has an impact on semen quality and fertility of men.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Moggie]

just ditch highly processed foods and refined grains, eat enough vegetables but still keep meat and dairy imo.

balanced diet

 

[Reckless Turtle]

eat enough vegetables but still keep meat and dairy imo.

balanced diet

The study says otherwise, unless having lower sperm mobility, density, and fertility is part of your ideal balanced diet.

 

[Moggie]

The study says otherwise, unless having lower sperm mobility, density, and fertility is part of your ideal balanced diet.

study is soy then

 

[fauxfox]

Tbh I notice my mind is clearer and I feel better when I limit grains and red meat and only eat vegetables + fish.
Pescatarian diet seems ideal for daily life and longevity, that's why the Japanese live so long

 

[Reckless Turtle]

study is soy then

 

[TsarTsar444]

"dietary intake was determined by a valid 168-item questionnaire (FFQ)."

OP, why do you link studies when you don't undertake how they are taken or understand what correlation and causation means?

 

[Reckless Turtle]

Tbh I notice my mind is clearer and I feel better when I limit grains and red meat and only eat vegetables + fish.
Pescatarian diet seems ideal for daily life and longevity, that's why the Japanese live so long

Hopefully the fish aren't from the South China Sea.

Mercury pollution in fish from South China Sea: levels, species-specific accumulation, and possible sources - PubMed

Both total mercury (THg) and methylmercury (MeHg) levels in fish collected from South China Sea (SCS) were studied to understand Hg pollution in Chinese tropical marine ecosystems. The average THg concentrations in fish species ranged from 39.6 μg/kg for rabbitfish (Siganus fuscessens) to 417...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Reckless Turtle]

"dietary intake was determined by a valid 168-item questionnaire (FFQ)."

Yes, the researchers had to ask the participants about their diets in order to conduct the research...

Assessment of dietary intakes Dietary intake was determined by a valid 168-item questionnaire (FFQ). FFQ validation is confirmed in Iran (19). This questionnaire contains common dietary guidelines in the country and can be used for adults. Participants specified their average frequency of consumption over the past 12 months (number of daily, weekly, monthly and annual) in this form. Specific groups were categorized as follows: 6 times or more a day, 3–5 times a day, 2-3 times a day, every day (once daily), 5-6 times /week, 2-4 times /week, once a week, 1-3 times a month and less than once a month. Finally, the frequency category chosen for each food item was converted into a daily intake for evaluation. Data extracted from the FFQ questionnaire were calculated by modified Nutritionist IV software for Iranian food. Plant Diet Index To create three versions of plant based diets PDI, hPDI, and uPDI, we use the Satije et al. method (20). All foods were grouped into 18 food groups in three main classes. According to food groups, hPDI included whole grains, fruits, vegetables, nuts, legumes, vegetable oils, and tea/coffee, uPDI included fruit juices, sugar-sweetened beverages, refined grains, potatoes, and sweets/desserts, and animal food included animal fat, dairy, egg, fish/ seafood, meat, and miscellaneous animal-based foods. In each group, food items were altered to deciles and received 1-10 score according to the lowest and highest intake in each group. In PDI and hPDI index, the highest intake gets a 10 score and the lowest intake get a 1 score. In uPDI, scored 1 for highest intake and 10 for lowest intake of animal food intake by participants. Scores were summed up to get a score ranging from 18 to 180 for each PDI, hPDI, and uPDI index. A higher total score for every index showed higher conformity to that pattern.

or understand what correlation and causation means?

Plant-based diet correlates with greater sperm mobility, density, and overall fertility​

 

[Reckless Turtle]

Tbh I notice my mind is clearer and I feel better when I limit grains and red meat and only eat vegetables + fish.
Pescatarian diet seems ideal for daily life and longevity, that's why the Japanese live so long

Also:

Moreover, in the highest tertile of hPDI, participants consumed higher amounts of energy, carbohydrate, protein, fat, fiber, vitamin E, B9, magnesium, iron, whole grains, fruits, vegetables, legumes, vegetable oil, and tea/coffee, but lower intake of SFA, cholesterol, B12, refined grains, potatoes, sugar sweetened beverage, sweets desserts, animal fat, dairy, eggs, fish/seafood, and meats compared to the first tertile.

 

[TsarTsar444]

Yes, the researchers had to ask the participants about their diets in order to conduct the research...

Not only is this study completely irrelevant for the simple reason that people who eat more unprocessed plant food have way healthier habits (lower bmi, less smoking, less alcohol, better sleep hygiene, higher income, education etc etc.) But the uPDI includes stuff like hamburgers, fries, artifical fruit juices, deep fried foods (you get the point). Animal products are included into the uPDI but that means nothing cause the study doesn't control for isolated animal stuff.

Example:
*guy 1: 300kcal of hazelnuts, 500kcal of boiled vegetables, 700kcal of soaked legumes, 350kcal oatmeal, 350kcal fruit

*guy 2: 700kcal hamburger, 700kcal pizza, 500kcal white bread, 140kcal eggs, 250kcal beef

Notice the problem? The guy 2 has shittier sperm quality right? But in what shape and form does it have to do with the actually pure animal products he ate and not the garbage PUFA filled food + white yeast made bread completely devoid of nutrients?

Tldr: legumes, fruits, vegetables are healthier then pufa processed bread Frankenstein meat foods where health deterioration links are strongly established, which are part of the uPDI.

 

[Reckless Turtle]

Not only is this study completely irrelevant for the simple reason that people who eat more unprocessed plant food have way healthier habits (lower bmi, less smoking, less alcohol, better sleep hygiene, higher income, education etc etc.)

@TsarTsar444 why do you comment on linked studies when you don't understand how they are taken?

In the crude model, there was a significant association between total motility and uPDI, and participants in the highest uPDI tertile had a lower risk of sperm motility (OR=0.34, 95% CI: 0.16, 0.72, P=0.005). After adjustment for potential confounders including age, energy intake, BMI, physical activity, marriage time, educational status, smoking, and alcohol history, the association was significant and participants in the highest uPDI tertile had a lower risk (OR=0.34, 95% CI: 0.16, 0.72, P=0.005 and OR=0.39, 95% CI: 0.18, 0.85, P=0.01).

But the uPDI includes stuff like hamburgers, fries, artifical fruit juices, deep fried foods (you get the point). Animal products are included into the uPDI but that means nothing cause the study doesn't control for isolated animal stuff.

Example:
*guy 1: 300kcal of hazelnuts, 500kcal of boiled vegetables, 700kcal of soaked legumes, 350kcal oatmeal, 350kcal fruit

*guy 2: 700kcal hamburger, 700kcal pizza, 500kcal white bread, 140kcal eggs, 250kcal beef

Notice the problem? The guy 2 has shittier sperm quality right? But in what shape and form does it have to do with the actually pure animal products he ate and not the garbage PUFA filled food + white yeast made bread completely devoid of nutrients?

Tldr: legumes, fruits, vegetables are healthier then pufa processed bread Frankenstein meat foods where health deterioration links are strongly established, which are part of the uPDI.

In another study, cholesterol correlated with erectile dysfunction:

In conclusion, this study, the correlation of cholesterol and LDL levels with ED strongly supports the role of hyperlipidemia treatment in both the prevention and management of ED.

The relationship between lipid profile and erectile dysfunction - International Journal of Impotence Research

The objective of this study is to investigate the relation between serum lipids (cholesterol, LDL, HDL, triglyceride (TG)) and erectile dysfunction (ED). The experimental methods involved comparison of 100 patients with organic ED (mean age of 43.59±10.51 y), with 100 healthy individuals (mean...

www.nature.com

This study simply tested a Mediterranean diet (separately from an "Alternative Healthy Eating Index 2010 diet"), which doesn't necessarily exclude processed foods (but it does tend to contain less high cholesterol foods like red meat and eggs):

Men younger than 60 years and in the highest category of the Mediterranean Diet score had the lowest relative risk of incident erectile dysfunction compared with men in the lowest category (HR, 0.78; 95% CI, 0.66-0.92). Higher Mediterranean diet scores were also inversely associated with incident erectile dysfunction among older men (age 60 to <70 years: HR, 0.82; 95% CI, 0.76-0.89; age ≥70 years: HR, 0.93; 95% CI, 0.86-1.00). Men scoring in the highest quintile of the Alternative Healthy Eating Index 2010 also had a lower risk of incident erectile dysfunction, particularly among men age younger than 60 years (quintile 5 vs quintile 1: HR, 0.78; 95% CI, 0.63-0.97).

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7666422/

 

[ifyouwannabemylover]

I add loads of vegetables to pretty much every dish I make but cutting out animal products completely makes me feel like shit

 

[Reckless Turtle]

I add loads of vegetables to pretty much every dish I make but cutting out animal products completely makes me feel like shit

Cutting out your main source of calories and nutrients and then not replacing them with other calories and nutrients would make most people feel like shit.

 

[Moggie]

Yes, the researchers had to ask the participants about their diets in order to conduct the research...

people lie

 

[ifyouwannabemylover]

Cutting out your main source of calories and nutrients and then not replacing them with other calories and nutrients would make most people feel like shit.

my main source of calories is starch though. even so, i'd argue that replacing the calories you lose from cutting out animal products isn't really practical since it requires eating significantly larger quantities of food which turns you into a bloated lethargic mess in my experience.

 

[TsarTsar444]

In another study, cholesterol correlated with erectile dysfunction:

The relationship between lipid profile and erectile dysfunction - International Journal of Impotence Research

The objective of this study is to investigate the relation between serum lipids (cholesterol, LDL, HDL, triglyceride (TG)) and erectile dysfunction (ED). The experimental methods involved comparison of 100 patients with organic ED (mean age of 43.59±10.51 y), with 100 healthy individuals (mean...

www.nature.com

This study simply tested a Mediterranean diet (separately from an "Alternative Healthy Eating Index 2010 diet"), which doesn't necessarily exclude processed foods (but it does tend to contain less high cholesterol foods like red meat and eggs):

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7666422/

In another study, cholesterol correlated with erectile dysfunction:

The relationship between lipid profile and erectile dysfunction - International Journal of Impotence Research

The objective of this study is to investigate the relation between serum lipids (cholesterol, LDL, HDL, triglyceride (TG)) and erectile dysfunction (ED). The experimental methods involved comparison of 100 patients with organic ED (mean age of 43.59±10.51 y), with 100 healthy individuals (mean...

www.nature.com

This study simply tested a Mediterranean diet (separately from an "Alternative Healthy Eating Index 2010 diet"), which doesn't necessarily exclude processed foods (but it does tend to contain less high cholesterol foods like red meat and eggs):

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7666422/

Again i already told you that the uPDI index lists garbage processed food together with just animal products, its super flawed. Do you understand how flawed it is?

And you are just shifting goal posts now, specifically going atter cholesterol which is well established already that dietary cholesterol has no impact in serum levels. While the type of cholesterol that causes atherosclerosis is made up off omega 6 PUFA instead of saturated fats.

Here is actual CASUAL clinical raw data on this unlike garbage questionere meme studies you posted

Here is a systematic review of 66 studies consistently showing how bad omega 6 linoleic acid is on CAD

However, cholesterol bound to saturated fat does not readily oxidise; this is not the case with linoleic acid.21 Moreover, lipids from human atherosclerotic plaques have been found to contain oxidised cholesteryl linoleate (cholesterol esters containing linoleic acid).21–24 Moreover, the severity of atherosclerosis is noted to increase with increasing oxidised cholesteryl linoleate.21 25 In other words, cholesterol was protected from oxidation if bound to saturated fat but susceptible to oxidation when bound to linoleic acid. Again, this suggests is that eating more linoleic acid increases the oxidation of cholesterol within LDL particles further increasing atherosclerosis formation and the risk of coronary heart disease."

1. Greater amounts of linoleic acid oxidation products are found in LDL and plasma of patients with atherosclerosis.14

2. Greater amounts of linoleic acid oxidation products are found within atherosclerotic plaques and the degree of oxidation determines the severity of atherosclerosis.22

3. A diet higher in oleic acid or lower in linoleic acid decreases LDL susceptibility to oxidation.14

4. Endothelial cells oxidise LDL forming linoleic acid hydroperoxides.14

5. Linoleic acid is the most abundant fatty acid in LDL and is extremely vulnerable to oxidation being one of the very first fatty acids to oxidise.14

6. A meta-analysis of randomised controlled trials in humans found that when saturated fat plus trans-fat is replaced with omega-6 fat (high in linoleic acid), there is an increase in all-cause mortality, ischaemic heart disease mortality and cardiovascular mortality.41

(https://www.bmj.com/content/346/bmj.e8707)

[However, there is currently no clinical trial evidence indicating that replacing SFAs with n-6 LA, without a concurrent increase in n-3 PUFAs, lowers the risk of cardiovascular disease or death. Thus, benefits attributed to PUFAs as a general category might be due to n-3 PUFAs specifically, particularly eicosapentaenoic acid and docosahexaenoic acid.]

7. Linoleic acid is the most abundant fat found in atherosclerotic plaques, and this has been known since at least the 1960s.50

8. Oxidised linoleic acid but not oxidised oleic acid is found in atherosclerotic plaques.51

 

[looksmaxxed]

that study: soytard's desperate attempt to legitimize their mental retardation.

 

[Reckless Turtle]

people lie

About?

 

[Reckless Turtle]

i'd argue that replacing the calories you lose from cutting out animal products isn't really practical since it requires eating significantly larger quantities of food

I'd argue otherwise.

which turns you into a bloated lethargic mess in my experience.

That depends on what you're replacing it with.

Whole-foods, plant-based diet tips

These are techniques I've gained from the past 3 years. Firstly, get a Cronometer account to track your nutritional intake. Legumes: Lentils Beans Chickpeas You need to cook these properly in order to avoid gas/bloating. Boil them in water, poor them into a colander, rinse them in the...

looksmax.org

 

[Moggie]

About?

their habits, study's relying on self reported data are notoriously unreliable

 

[Reckless Turtle]

And you are just shifting goal posts now

Ironic.

specifically going atter cholesterol which is well established already that dietary cholesterol has no impact in serum levels.

Source? Your own linked source seems to suggest otherwise:

Table 4⇓ summarizes risk factors for cardiovascular disease at baseline and at 12 months of follow-up. Serum total cholesterol decreased more in the LA intervention group than in the control group (−13.3% v −5.5%; P<0.001).

While the type of cholesterol that causes atherosclerosis is made up off omega 6 PUFA instead of saturated fats.

Source? This 2021 study (with an apparently massive database sample) says:

Omega-6 PUFA supplementation did not affect the risk for CVD morbidity and mortality. Additionally, based on MR analysis we found that higher AA levels might even significantly increase the risk of CHD, MI and large artery stroke, as well as the levels of FBG and LDL-C, whereas they were negatively associated with TC and TG. Since a considerable chance of heterogeneity was observed for some of the results, further research is needed to elucidate the effects of omega-6 PUFAs on cardiometabolic outcomes.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8924827/

Here is actual CASUAL clinical raw data on this

CASUAL or CAUSAL? You haven't linked either. Furthermore, your entire segment only contains one hyperlink to one of the studies...

(https://www.bmj.com/content/346/bmj.e8707)

This study model made no attempt to replace animal products, with a whole-foods, plant-based diet. They literally handed them "Miracle" brand and margarine and told them to eat it, lol.

The intervention group received instructions to increase their PUFA intake to about 15% of food energy, and to reduce their intake of SFA and dietary cholesterol to less than 10% of food energy and 300 mg per day, respectively.10 To achieve these targets, intervention participants were provided with liquid safflower oil and safflower oil polyunsaturated margarine (“Miracle” brand, Marrickville Margarine).

The control group received no specific dietary instruction. However, some participants began substituting polyunsaturated margarine for butter after their coronary event.33 Because the research team made no effort to alter the PUFA or SFA content of control diets, such dietary changes were allowed to continue.

And the death rate was 16/221 for the "treated" group and 10/237 for the "control." All participants already had preexisting cardiovascular issues too.

Eligible patients were men aged 30-59 years admitted to one of four academic teaching hospitals (Prince Henry, Prince of Wales, Sutherland, St George)13 affiliated with the University of New South Wales near Sydney, Australia, for an episode of acute myocardial infarction (86%), or acute coronary insufficiency or angina (14%).

 

[ifyouwannabemylover]

I'd argue otherwise.


That depends on what you're replacing it with.

Whole-foods, plant-based diet tips

These are techniques I've gained from the past 3 years. Firstly, get a Cronometer account to track your nutritional intake. Legumes: Lentils Beans Chickpeas You need to cook these properly in order to avoid gas/bloating. Boil them in water, poor them into a colander, rinse them in the...

looksmax.org

I eat loads of legumes and shit but still feel physically malnourished on days where I only eat plants. it just feels like you ate a whole bunch of nothing. I think animal fat especially is somewhat necessary for proper brain function. eating vegetables and fruit everyday combined with some amount of animal protein and fat (mostly cheese and seafood for me) seems like a good balance as opposed to eating processed shit everyday or being a bloated lethargic carbmaxxed vegan.

 

[mightyravendark]

The study says otherwise, unless having lower sperm mobility, density, and fertility is part of your ideal balanced diet.

Did the study account for people who only eat locally sourced grass-fed animal products or just the toxic shit they stock grocery stores with? Vegans tend to be hippies that buy excessively expensive "organic" shit that is usually devoid of things like hormones and dyes.

 

[Gonthar]

It's over for spermcel animal product eaters.

 

[Reckless Turtle]

I eat loads of legumes and shit but still feel physically malnourished on days where I only eat plants. it just feels like you ate a whole bunch of nothing.

"Loads" of poorly prepared legumes will result in bloating. Also, you aren't providing any indication that you controlled for caloric intake in your experiences.

I think animal fat especially is somewhat necessary for proper brain function.

Based on...?

being a bloated lethargic carbmaxxed vegan.

As opposed to not being bloated and consuming adequate caloric and nutritional intake on a whole-foods, plant-based diet?

 

[ifyouwannabemylover]

Based on...?

instinct/cravings

 

[Reckless Turtle]

Did the study account for people who only eat locally sourced grass-fed animal products or just the toxic shit they stock grocery stores with? Vegans tend to be hippies that buy excessively expensive "organic" shit that is usually devoid of things like hormones and dyes.

No, but "locally sourced grass-fed animal products" are not devoid of cholesterol and heme iron.

The relationship between lipid profile and erectile dysfunction - International Journal of Impotence Research

The objective of this study is to investigate the relation between serum lipids (cholesterol, LDL, HDL, triglyceride (TG)) and erectile dysfunction (ED). The experimental methods involved comparison of 100 patients with organic ED (mean age of 43.59±10.51 y), with 100 healthy individuals (mean...

www.nature.com

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7666422/

Heme - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Reckless Turtle]

Great meme, but deep-fried plants are not a component of a healthy plant diet.

 

[Reckless Turtle]

instinct/cravings

Instincts/cravings lead people to follow the path of least resistance, which is why so many people in developed areas are fat from indulging in abundantly-supplied processed foods (including animal products).

 

[mightyravendark]

No, but "locally sourced grass-fed animal products" are not devoid of cholesterol and heme iron.

The relationship between lipid profile and erectile dysfunction - International Journal of Impotence Research

The objective of this study is to investigate the relation between serum lipids (cholesterol, LDL, HDL, triglyceride (TG)) and erectile dysfunction (ED). The experimental methods involved comparison of 100 patients with organic ED (mean age of 43.59±10.51 y), with 100 healthy individuals (mean...

www.nature.com

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7666422/

Heme - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Cholesterol and iron don't do shit. That study you posted is dogshit vegan propaganda. The average person with shitty cholesterol is also consuming seed oils and unsaturated fats. The average person gets their "animal products" from fucking mcdonald's and is overweight. Until a real study is done on people who eat quality animal products over fast-food or grocery store slop I don't give a fuck about methodologically flawed cherrypicked studies to further agenda 21 "get in ze pod, eat ze bugs" lifestyle. Every dietary scandal that has ever arisen has had studies backing their unsupported claims.

 

[mightyravendark]

Great meme, but deep-fried plants are not a component of a healthy plant diet.

Just like deep fried animal products aren't either but that didn't stop the "academics" that did the study you posted from coming to a conclusioj based off average unhealthy fried food animal product consumption.

 

[Reckless Turtle]

Cholesterol and iron don't do shit.

Bold claim.

The average person with shitty cholesterol is also consuming seed oils and unsaturated fats.

And those average men with shitty cholesterol sometimes take statins that lower their cholesterol in order to improve erectile quality (rather than eliminating cholesterol and processed fatty foods from their diet).

Atorvastatin improves the response to sildenafil in hypercholesterolemic men with erectile dysfunction not initially responsive to sildenafil - International Journal of Impotence Research

Despite the initial enthusiasm, the significant number of patients in whom sildenafil is contraindicated or ineffective is a major challenge to all urologists. Our aim was to determine the safety and efficacy of adjunctive atorvastatin in restoring normal erectile function in...

www.nature.com

 

[Deleted member 1660]

Yes, the researchers had to ask the participants about their diets in order to conduct the research...

Such a flawed way to approach this study. By asking? The people conducting the study literally have no control whether the people are lying or not or whether the results are really due to a plant based diet.

Vegans have a lower sperm count than non vegans:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/35465 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3257705/
Vegans have lower testosterone than non vegans:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1435181 http://m.ajcn.nutrition.org/content/42/1/127.abstract https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/159772 http://m.jap.physiology.org/content/82/1/49
Veganism causes loss of libido and erectile dysfunction:

Hypogonadism and erectile dysfunction associated with soy product consumption - PubMed

Previous research has focused on the beneficial effects of soy and its active ingredients, isoflavones. For instance, soy consumption has been associated with lower cardiovascular and breast cancer risks. However, the number of reports demonstrating adverse effects of isoflavones due to their...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Reckless Turtle]

Just like deep fried animal products aren't either but that didn't stop the "academics" that did the study you posted from coming to a conclusioj based off average unhealthy fried food animal product consumption.

Maybe, but:

After adjustment for potential confounders including age, energy intake, BMI, physical activity, marriage time, educational status, smoking, and alcohol history, the association was significant and participants in the highest uPDI tertile had a lower risk (OR=0.34, 95% CI: 0.16, 0.72, P=0.005 and OR=0.39, 95% CI: 0.18, 0.85, P=0.01).

You're also dismissing any follow-up articles I provide as:

dogshit vegan propaganda.

studies to further agenda 21 "get in ze pod, eat ze bugs"

 

[mightyravendark]

Bold claim.


And those average men with shitty cholesterol sometimes take statins that lower their cholesterol in order to improve erectile quality (rather than eliminating cholesterol and processed fatty foods from their diet).

Atorvastatin improves the response to sildenafil in hypercholesterolemic men with erectile dysfunction not initially responsive to sildenafil - International Journal of Impotence Research

Despite the initial enthusiasm, the significant number of patients in whom sildenafil is contraindicated or ineffective is a major challenge to all urologists. Our aim was to determine the safety and efficacy of adjunctive atorvastatin in restoring normal erectile function in...

www.nature.com

Jfl taking a cholesterol lowering drug improves function of another drug. Where's the evidence that proves dietary cholesterol is directly responsible for decrease in erectile quality that accounts for other dietary factors like seed oil, unsaturated fat, and testosterone lowering hormones? Oh right it doesn't exist because it would either be suppressed or get no funding because it's counterindicative to current plant-based business ventures like crisco and soylent.

Maybe, but:


You're also dismissing any follow-up articles I provide as:

Those aren't confounding factors. They don't examine presence of other endocrinologically and metabolically disruptive compounds in their diets. It just so happens that people who intake higher amounts of cholesterol also consume the other toxic bullshit I mentioned because they're usually served along with it, e.g. fast food, corn-fed animal products in grocery stores, and hormone laced products utilized to increase product yield.

 

[Reckless Turtle]

Some observations on human semen analysis - PubMed

Semen analysis of 66 unmarried medical students in the age group of 17-21 years was carried out. A higher liquefaction time pH, motility, lower sperm count and abnormal forms were observed compared to reported values. Liquefaction time, pH and sperm count was found significantly different in...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

1. study from 1978 with no full text
2. sample size of 66 Indians
3. talks about vegetarians, not vegans
4. "liquefaction time, pH and sperm count was found significantly different" =/= "lower sperm"

Semen analysis of 66 unmarried medical students in the age group of 17-21 years was carried out. A higher liquefaction time pH, motility, lower sperm count and abnormal forms were observed compared to reported values. Liquefaction time, pH and sperm count was found significantly different in non-vegetarians and vegetarians, perhaps due to difference in their dietary proteins.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3257705/

1. talks about vegetarians, not vegans
2. specifically talks about soy, but doesn't even support your claim

Finally, in contrast to the pilot epidemiologic study cited previously, none of the three clinical studies conducted found adverse effects of soy or isoflavones on sperm or semen parameters [227,228,229]. In fact, as described in a case report published in 2004, a man with low sperm count who was unable to father a child experienced an improvement in sperm concentration and motility resulting in a successful pregnancy after being given isoflavones for six months [230]. The authors suggested that isoflavones may prove to be a treatment for oligospermia and called for clinical trials to be conducted. It is notable that in the epidemiologic study in question, in addition to having several design limitations—such as no dietary information other than soy intake being obtained—much of the reduced sperm count appeared to occur because soy use was associated with an increase in ejaculate volume [223]. It seems unlikely that this association would have a causal basis.

Serum sex hormones and endurance performance after a lacto-ovo vegetarian and a mixed diet - PubMed

Serum sex hormones and endurance performance after a lacto-ovo vegetarian and a mixed diet. Med. Sci. Sports Exerc., Vol. 24, No. 11, pp. 1290-1297, 1992. The effect of a lacto-ovo vegetarian (V) and a mixed, meat-rich (M) diet on the level of serum sex hormones, gonadotropins, and endurance...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

1. sample size of 8
2. talks about vegetarians, not vegans
3. doesn't even support your claim

Endurance performance time was higher for six and lower for two after the mixed diet compared with the vegetarian diet. This was not significant, however. In conclusion, 6 wk on a lacto-ovo vegetarian diet caused a minor decrease in total testosterone and no significant changes in physical performance in male endurance athletes compared with 6 wk on a mixed, meatrich diet.

The American Journal of Clinical Nutrition | Oxford Academic

The American Journal of Clinical Nutrition is a peer reviewed journal from the American Society of Nutrition that publishes original research studies relevant t

m.ajcn.nutrition.org

dead link

Effect of a vegetarian diet and dexamethasone on plasma prolactin, testosterone and dehydroepiandrosterone in men and women - PubMed

This study reports the effect of a vegetarian diet and dexamethasone administration on the hormone status of healthy Caucasian men and premenopausal women. A lower nocturnal release of prolactin and testosterone occurred in men fed a vegetarian diet, while in women, dexamethasone administration...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

1. study from 1979 with no full text
2. no mention of sample size
3. talks about vegetarians, not vegans

http://m.jap.physiology.org/content/82/1/49

dead link

Veganism causes loss of libido and erectile dysfunction:

Hypogonadism and erectile dysfunction associated with soy product consumption - PubMed

Previous research has focused on the beneficial effects of soy and its active ingredients, isoflavones. For instance, soy consumption has been associated with lower cardiovascular and breast cancer risks. However, the number of reports demonstrating adverse effects of isoflavones due to their...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

1. sample size of 1
2. specifically tested "the ingestion of large quantities of soy-based products"

 

[Reckless Turtle]

Jfl taking a cholesterol lowering drug improves function of another drug.

Without Sildenafil:

Simvastatin improves the sexual health-related quality of life in men aged 40 years and over with erectile dysfunction: additional data from the erectile dysfunction and statin trial - BMC Urology

Background Erectile dysfunction is prevalent in men over 40 years, affecting their quality of life and that of their partners. The aims of this study were: a) To evaluate the internal reliability of the male erectile dysfunction specific quality of life (MED-QoL) scale and explore its factor...

bmcurol.biomedcentral.com

Where's the evidence that proves dietary cholesterol is directly responsible for decrease in erectile quality that accounts for other dietary factors like seed oil, unsaturated fat, and testosterone lowering hormones?

Those aren't confounding factors. They don't examine presence of other endocrinologically and metabolically disruptive compounds in their diets. It just so happens that people who intake higher amounts of cholesterol also consume the other toxic bullshit I mentioned because they're usually served along with it, e.g. fast food, corn-fed animal products in grocery stores, and hormone laced products utilized to increase product yield.

As I've already explained, I'm making the bold assumption, based on the aforementioned research, that:

1. Men experience cardiovascular and erectile issues due to consuming cholesterol and processed, fatty foods.
2. Some of these men start taking statins (cholesterol-lowering medications), rather than tackling the issue directly by eliminating the consumption of cholesterol and processed, fatty foods by consuming a whole-foods, plant-based diet.
3. The use of statins shows increased cardiovascular and erectile health in said men (by lowering systemic cholesterol levels), even while these men continue to consume processed, fatty foods.

Oh right it doesn't exist because it would either be suppressed or get no funding because it's counterindicative to current plant-based business ventures like crisco and soylent.

Following that logic, any study critical of dietary cholesterol consumption would be suppressed by the massively subsidized animal agriculture industry.

The Department of Agriculture has spent almost $50 billion in subsidies for livestock operators since 1995, according to an EWG analysis.

By contrast, since 2018 the USDA has spent less than $30 million to support plant-based and other alternative proteins that may produce fewer greenhouse gases and may require less land than livestock.

USDA livestock subsidies near $50 billion, EWG analysis finds

The Department of Agriculture has spent almost $50 billion in subsidies for livestock operators since 1995, according to an EWG analysis.

www.ewg.org

 

[firethorn]

questionnaire + correlations study = glorified pseudoscience

 

[Deleted member 2969]

Got broccolis from a farmer yesterday

 

[firethorn]

nutrition that isn't mechanism of actions or RCTs shoulod be thrown straight in the trash

 

[TsarTsar444]

Source? This 2021 study (with an apparently massive database sample) says:

• Greater amounts of linoleic acid oxidation products are found in LDL and plasma of patients with atherosclerosis.14
• Greater amounts of linoleic acid oxidation products are found within atherosclerotic plaques and the degree of oxidation determines the severity of atherosclerosis.22
• A diet higher in oleic acid or lower in linoleic acid decreases LDL susceptibility to oxidation.14
• Endothelial cells oxidise LDL forming linoleic acid hydroperoxides.14
• Linoleic acid is the most abundant fatty acid in LDL and is extremely vulnerable to oxidation being one of the very first fatty acids to oxidise.14
• A meta-analysis of randomised controlled trials in humans found that when saturated fat plus trans-fat is replaced with omega-6 fat (high in linoleic acid), there is an increase in all-cause mortality, ischaemic heart disease mortality and cardiovascular mortality.41
• The oxidation of linoleic acid in LDL leads to conjugated dienes (malondialdehyde and 4-hydroxynonenal), which covalently bind to apoB altering its structure creating oxidised LDL. oxLDL is no longer recognised by the LDL receptors on the liver but by scavenger receptors on macrophages causing monocyte infiltration into the subendothelium, foam cell formation and eventual atherosclerosis.14
• Oxidation products of linoleic acid (including 9-HODE and 13-HODE) are found in infarcted tissue.44
• Ultrasound of the carotid arteries in healthy patients who have high 9-HODE in LDL have signs of atherosclerosis.14
• The increase in 9-HODE begins between 40 and 50 years old prior to the clinical manifestation of atherosclerosis.14
• 9-HODE is a good indicator of oxLDL, especially if other causes of inflammation are excluded. An increased oxidised LDL, and hence levels of 9-HODE and 13-HODE in LDL, found in patients with rheumatoid arthritis may explain why they have an increased risk of heart disease.45
• 9-HODE and 13-HODE stimulate the release of interleukin 1B from macrophages.45
• The linoleic acid metabolite 9-HODE is a strong promoter of inflammation45 and hence may be both a marker and inducer of atherosclerosis.
• Susceptibility of LDL to oxidation correlates independently with the extent of atherosclerosis.46
• 15) Linoleic acid free fatty acids and hydroxy acids (such as 13-HODE) can induce direct toxic effects to the endothelium causing an increase inflammation, reactive oxygen species and adhesion molecules.33 34
• Exposure of the endothelium to linoleic acid has been found to increase LDL transfer across the endothelium, an essential step in the atherosclerosis process.35
• Oxidised linoleic acid metabolites (OXLAMs) are recognised by immune cells and can recruit monocytes/neutrophils to atherosclerotic lesions.47 OXLAMs are considered a danger signal activating innate immune cells, which are involved in atherosclerosis formation.48 49
• Linoleic acid is the most abundant fat found in atherosclerotic plaques, and this has been known since at least the 1960s.50
• Oxidised linoleic acid but not oxidised oleic acid is found in atherosclerotic plaques.51
• Consuming more linoleic acid increases the amount of linoleic acid in complicated aortic plaques.52
• Linoleic acid in adipose tissue and platelets positively associates with CAD, whereas EPA and DHA in platelets are inversely correlated with CAD.3
• Linoleic acid serum concentrations (as opposed to per cent of fatty acids) are higher in patients with CAD.4
• Using the fat-1 transgenic mouse model, which converts omega-6 to omega-3 creating an omega-6mega-3 ratio of around 1:1 in tissues and organs, reduces atherosclerotic lesions by inhibiting systemic and vascular inflammation.53
• Mice fed fish oil (high in omega-3) as compared with corn oil (high in omega-6) have a significant reduction in atherosclerotic plaque formation possibly due to an increase in antioxidant enzyme activity.54
• There is more thin fibrous cap atheroma, less thick fibrous cap atheroma, less stable plaque and a greater percentage of plaque rupture in patients given sunflower oil (high in omega-6) versus control.55
• An excess dietary intake of linoleic acid causes greater endothelial activation compared with an excess of saturated fat.56 Linoleic acid can activate vascular endothelial cells, a critical step for inducing atherosclerosis.57 58
• Linoleic acid is inflammatory to the vascular endothelium.59
• Linoleic acid metabolites promote cardiac arrhythmias, cell death, organ failure and cardiac arrest.60
• Patients who have died from sudden cardiac death have more linoleic acid and less omega-3 polyunsaturated fats in their coronary arteries versus control patients who died mostly from traffic accidents.61 B ox 2 summarises the opposing views for (1) why linoleic acid may reduce CHD and (2) why linoleic acid may increase the risk of CHD.

This study model made no attempt to replace animal products, with a whole-foods, plant-based diet. They literally handed them "Miracle" brand and margarine and told them to eat it, lol.




And the death rate was 16/221 for the "treated" group and 10/237 for the "control." All participants already had preexisting cardiovascular issues too.

thats a 60% increase, and what does it have to do with them already having issues? The coping is strong, my argument is againts vegetable oils here

 

[Reckless Turtle]

• Greater amounts of linoleic acid oxidation products are found in LDL and plasma of patients with atherosclerosis.14
• Greater amounts of linoleic acid oxidation products are found within atherosclerotic plaques and the degree of oxidation determines the severity of atherosclerosis.22
• A diet higher in oleic acid or lower in linoleic acid decreases LDL susceptibility to oxidation.14
• Endothelial cells oxidise LDL forming linoleic acid hydroperoxides.14
• Linoleic acid is the most abundant fatty acid in LDL and is extremely vulnerable to oxidation being one of the very first fatty acids to oxidise.14
• A meta-analysis of randomised controlled trials in humans found that when saturated fat plus trans-fat is replaced with omega-6 fat (high in linoleic acid), there is an increase in all-cause mortality, ischaemic heart disease mortality and cardiovascular mortality.41
• The oxidation of linoleic acid in LDL leads to conjugated dienes (malondialdehyde and 4-hydroxynonenal), which covalently bind to apoB altering its structure creating oxidised LDL. oxLDL is no longer recognised by the LDL receptors on the liver but by scavenger receptors on macrophages causing monocyte infiltration into the subendothelium, foam cell formation and eventual atherosclerosis.14
• Oxidation products of linoleic acid (including 9-HODE and 13-HODE) are found in infarcted tissue.44
• Ultrasound of the carotid arteries in healthy patients who have high 9-HODE in LDL have signs of atherosclerosis.14
• The increase in 9-HODE begins between 40 and 50 years old prior to the clinical manifestation of atherosclerosis.14
• 9-HODE is a good indicator of oxLDL, especially if other causes of inflammation are excluded. An increased oxidised LDL, and hence levels of 9-HODE and 13-HODE in LDL, found in patients with rheumatoid arthritis may explain why they have an increased risk of heart disease.45
• 9-HODE and 13-HODE stimulate the release of interleukin 1B from macrophages.45
• The linoleic acid metabolite 9-HODE is a strong promoter of inflammation45 and hence may be both a marker and inducer of atherosclerosis.
• Susceptibility of LDL to oxidation correlates independently with the extent of atherosclerosis.46
• 15) Linoleic acid free fatty acids and hydroxy acids (such as 13-HODE) can induce direct toxic effects to the endothelium causing an increase inflammation, reactive oxygen species and adhesion molecules.33 34
• Exposure of the endothelium to linoleic acid has been found to increase LDL transfer across the endothelium, an essential step in the atherosclerosis process.35
• Oxidised linoleic acid metabolites (OXLAMs) are recognised by immune cells and can recruit monocytes/neutrophils to atherosclerotic lesions.47 OXLAMs are considered a danger signal activating innate immune cells, which are involved in atherosclerosis formation.48 49
• Linoleic acid is the most abundant fat found in atherosclerotic plaques, and this has been known since at least the 1960s.50
• Oxidised linoleic acid but not oxidised oleic acid is found in atherosclerotic plaques.51
• Consuming more linoleic acid increases the amount of linoleic acid in complicated aortic plaques.52
• Linoleic acid in adipose tissue and platelets positively associates with CAD, whereas EPA and DHA in platelets are inversely correlated with CAD.3
• Linoleic acid serum concentrations (as opposed to per cent of fatty acids) are higher in patients with CAD.4
• Using the fat-1 transgenic mouse model, which converts omega-6 to omega-3 creating an omega-6mega-3 ratio of around 1:1 in tissues and organs, reduces atherosclerotic lesions by inhibiting systemic and vascular inflammation.53
• Mice fed fish oil (high in omega-3) as compared with corn oil (high in omega-6) have a significant reduction in atherosclerotic plaque formation possibly due to an increase in antioxidant enzyme activity.54
• There is more thin fibrous cap atheroma, less thick fibrous cap atheroma, less stable plaque and a greater percentage of plaque rupture in patients given sunflower oil (high in omega-6) versus control.55
• An excess dietary intake of linoleic acid causes greater endothelial activation compared with an excess of saturated fat.56 Linoleic acid can activate vascular endothelial cells, a critical step for inducing atherosclerosis.57 58
• Linoleic acid is inflammatory to the vascular endothelium.59
• Linoleic acid metabolites promote cardiac arrhythmias, cell death, organ failure and cardiac arrest.60
• Patients who have died from sudden cardiac death have more linoleic acid and less omega-3 polyunsaturated fats in their coronary arteries versus control patients who died mostly from traffic accidents.61 B ox 2 summarises the opposing views for (1) why linoleic acid may reduce CHD and (2) why linoleic acid may increase the risk of CHD.

I'm going to use the head main source summary to save time:

The consumption of the omega-6 polyunsaturated fat linoleic acid has dramatically increased in the western world primarily in the form of vegetable oils. OxLDL is thought to play an important role in atherosclerosis formation; however, it is the oxidised linoleic acid contained in LDL that leads to harmful OXLAMs, which induces atherosclerosis and CHD. Thus, reducing the amount of dietary linoleic acid, mainly from industrial vegetable/seed oils, will reduce the amount of linoleic acid in LDL and likely reduce oxLDL as well as the risk for CHDcoronary heart disease.

In summary, numerous lines of evidence show that the omega-6 polyunsaturated fat linoleic acid promotes oxidative stress, oxidised LDL, chronic low-grade inflammation and atherosclerosis, and is likely a major dietary culprit for causing CHD, especially when consumed in the form of industrial seed oils commonly referred to as ‘vegetable oils’.

thats a 60% increase

A ~60% increase from 4.2% to 7.3%.

and what does it have to do with them already having issues?

They were already deemed unhealthy prior to adding even more unhealthy food to their diet (vegetable oil margarine). Certainly the control diet of "animal fats, common margarines, and shortenings" wasn't working well for them in the first place. Had they been consuming a whole-foods, plant-based diet (which doesn't contain vegetable oil margarine, by the way) instead of their initial diet, they may not have been suffering from cardiovascular problems.

The coping is strong, my argument is againts vegetable oils here

Yet I was never arguing in favor of processed vegetable oils, because (as far as I'm concerned), they aren't included in a whole-foods, plant-based diet (except in small quantities).

Ironically, the OP study included vegetable oils in their healthy plant diet:

According to food groups, hPDI included whole grains, fruits, vegetables, nuts, legumes, vegetable oils

Yet, they still had greater fertility than animal product eaters, maybe because their lack of dietary cholesterol prevented harmful amounts of oxidized LDL.

Your argument is all over the place, seeing as I've directly refuted multiple claims of yours (including by using your own linked study), yet you have no follow-up to any of that. Who's the coper, exactly?

 

[MoggerGaston]

Study in the OP doesn't prove anything. At best it correlates sperm count with plant-based diet.


The average person is an unhealthy mess. Lack of exercise, high bodyfat, processed shit food, alcoholic. And so on. And they also eat meat.

The average vegan/vegetarian likely has a better lifestyle overall as they are occoupied with stuff like this. But they also eat plants.


I am open to the idea that meat/animal products are bad for you, but no such conclusion can be drawn from this study whatsoever. Nowhere do they account for other variables which are far more likely to have a health impact than eating vegetables.

 

[Deleted member 22190]

study is soy then

Made by kikes trying to convince you to eat bugs and consoom plant soy

 

[mightyravendark]

Without Sildenafil:

Simvastatin improves the sexual health-related quality of life in men aged 40 years and over with erectile dysfunction: additional data from the erectile dysfunction and statin trial - BMC Urology

Background Erectile dysfunction is prevalent in men over 40 years, affecting their quality of life and that of their partners. The aims of this study were: a) To evaluate the internal reliability of the male erectile dysfunction specific quality of life (MED-QoL) scale and explore its factor...

bmcurol.biomedcentral.com

As I've already explained, I'm making the bold assumption, based on the aforementioned research, that:

1. Men experience cardiovascular and erectile issues due to consuming cholesterol and processed, fatty foods.
2. Some of these men start taking statins (cholesterol-lowering medications), rather than tackling the issue directly by eliminating the consumption of cholesterol and processed, fatty foods by consuming a whole-foods, plant-based diet.
3. The use of statins shows increased cardiovascular and erectile health in said men (by lowering systemic cholesterol levels), even while these men continue to consume processed, fatty foods.


Following that logic, any study critical of dietary cholesterol consumption would be suppressed by the massively subsidized animal agriculture industry.

USDA livestock subsidies near $50 billion, EWG analysis finds

The Department of Agriculture has spent almost $50 billion in subsidies for livestock operators since 1995, according to an EWG analysis.

www.ewg.org

Lmao simvastatin. You should actually look up the drugs you cite. Simvastatin is used in treating people with smith-lemli opitz disease and the effect of the drug that is usually designed to lower cholesterol actually RAISES it. Another bullshit vegan misrepresentation of the facts as usual. Why are vegans so intellectually dishonest? Could it be because veganism is like a RELIGION to them or something?

 

[Reckless Turtle]

At best it correlates sperm count with plant-based diet.

@MoggerGaston reading post titles before he comments:

The average person is an unhealthy mess. Lack of exercise, high bodyfat, processed shit food, alcoholic. And so on. And they also eat meat.

The average vegan/vegetarian likely has a better lifestyle overall as they are occoupied with stuff like this. But they also eat plants.

In another study, cholesterol correlated with erectile dysfunction:

The relationship between lipid profile and erectile dysfunction - International Journal of Impotence Research

The objective of this study is to investigate the relation between serum lipids (cholesterol, LDL, HDL, triglyceride (TG)) and erectile dysfunction (ED). The experimental methods involved comparison of 100 patients with organic ED (mean age of 43.59±10.51 y), with 100 healthy individuals (mean...

www.nature.com

This study simply tested a Mediterranean diet (separately from an "Alternative Healthy Eating Index 2010 diet"), which doesn't necessarily exclude processed foods (but it does tend to contain less high cholesterol foods like red meat and eggs):

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7666422/

As I've already explained, I'm making the bold assumption, based on the aforementioned research, that:

1. Men experience cardiovascular and erectile issues due to consuming cholesterol and processed, fatty foods.
2. Some of these men start taking statins (cholesterol-lowering medications), rather than tackling the issue directly by eliminating the consumption of cholesterol and processed, fatty foods by consuming a whole-foods, plant-based diet.
3. The use of statins shows increased cardiovascular and erectile health in said men (by lowering systemic cholesterol levels), even while these men continue to consume processed, fatty foods.

but no such conclusion can be drawn from this study whatsoever. Nowhere do they account for other variables which are far more likely to have a health impact than eating vegetables.

In the crude model, there was a significant association between total motility and uPDI, and participants in the highest uPDI tertile had a lower risk of sperm motility (OR=0.34, 95% CI: 0.16, 0.72, P=0.005). After adjustment for potential confounders including age, energy intake, BMI, physical activity, marriage time, educational status, smoking, and alcohol history, the association was significant and participants in the highest uPDI tertile had a lower risk (OR=0.34, 95% CI: 0.16, 0.72, P=0.005 and OR=0.39, 95% CI: 0.18, 0.85, P=0.01).

 

[Deleted member 20652]

Cock is vegan too maybe you would like to suck cock OP?

//Thomas DOM

 

[ChristianChad]

OP is dangerously retarded

 

[MoggerGaston]

@MoggerGaston reading post titles before he comments:

It's over for spermcel animal product eaters.

Nah I read this sentence of yours. Maybe u should read ur own title.