Raw Meat Is Healthy

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foidk3llr

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Raw Primal Diet

Bacteria / Parasite Psyop

The main argument against raw primalism is the harmful bacterias and parasites people claim to exist within the diet which is what im going to be talking about.


What Bacteria Is And Its Importance
Bacterias and parasites are our friends, dont let the fear mongering get to you. Bacteria is needed in the body to help digest dead / decaying cells and waste which is essential for the human body's health, without microbes your skin, gut and blood would be full of dead matter, toxins and rotting tissues. Gut bacteria regulates hormones, mood and brain function through the gut-brain axis, your gut and brain are directly connected through the vagus nerve and a complex network of chemical signals. Gut bacteria produce and influence many of these signals affecting your brain and mood. The gut is a fermentation system, not a sterile tube. Raw food and especially raw animal products carry benefical bacteria that predigest food and help extract nutrients.

Your doctors and medical professionals are unintentionally lying to you because they often misunderstand bacterias role, seeing them as harmful rather than beneficial. "Bad bacteria" are not naturally occurring but are manmade laboratory strains. Pathogenic bacteria always arises in unnatural conditions like factory farms, sterilized labs and hospitals. "When we mess with natures balance through antibiotics, processed foods and chemicals, we create enviornments where only aggressive, mutated strains survive"

Parasites
are apart of natures cleanup crew, they break down waste, regulate populations and sometimes even protect against autoimmune disease. In the wild most animals live with a load of parasites and function just fine, sometimes better. Experiments with whipmorm parasites have shown therapeutic benefits for digestive issues.

Aajoonus Vonderplanitz Experiment → The Bacteria & Parasite Deception - Aajonus Vonderplanitz

The presence of bacteria like salmonella and e. coli in the body is common and not necessarily indicative of disease.

Symptomps like vomiting and diarrhea are detoxification processes, not bacterial attacks.
Studies


The Problem Of Sterilization, Cooking And Pasteurization
When you cook, pasteurize or sterilize you kill the very bacteria that allows food to digest and regenerate the body. When you heat food above ~118°F (48°C), you denature proteins, kill enzymes and destroy most beneficial bacteria. These enzymes and b acterias are living components necessary for digestion, detoxification and cellular repair, without them the food rots inside your gut causing fermentation, gas, bloating and long-term tissue damage.
When you cook meat you destroy or significantly reduce heat-sensitive nutrients like B vitamins (B1, B5, B6 and folate), Vitamin C in organ meats, certain amino acids through processes like Maillard reactions and protein denaturation while also oxidizing essential fats and damage enzymes crucial for digestion.
Studies:

Cooking creates toxic byproducts that the body cannot safely use and must detofixy, store in fat or wall of in tumors, cyst and inflammation.

Advanced Glycation End Products (AGEs) (TOXIC BYPRODUCT)
(High-heat cooking like frying, grilling and roasting)
When sugars especially from carbs or lactose react with proteins or fats under high heat, they form AGEs which are toxic com pounds that damage cells, arteries, skin and organs. AGEs also accelerates aging, wrinkles the skin, hardens blood vessels and clogs the kidneys and brain. AGEs are a major cause of diseases like alzheimers, arthritis, and cardiovascular problems.

Heterocyclic Amines (HCAs) (TOXIC BYPRODUCT)
(Found in cooked meat, especially charred or browned meat)
These form when amino acids and create in meat are exposed to high temperatures. HCAs are mutagenic which means they can damage DNA and increase the risk of cancer, especially colon, prostate and breast cancer.

Acrylamide
(
Acrylamide is a neurotoxic chemical formed in starchy foods like potatoes, bread or cookies when baked, roasted or fried at high temps)
Acrylamide has been linked to nerve damage, hormone disruption and cancer, it doesnt exist in raw food and is a direct result of industrialized food prep.

Lipid Peroxides and Trans Fats
Fats exposed to heat (especially vegetable oils, but also animal fats when overheated)
When these fats are exposed to heat they oxidize and become rancid, forming lipid peroxides. These damage cell membranes, trigger inflammation and contribute to heart disease, autoimmune disorders and cancer. Even cooking with good fats like butter or tallow can make them toxic if overheated.

Denatured Proteins
(Cooking unfolds and mutates proteins)
When you cook proteins you unfold and mutate them, making them harder to digest and more likely to cause immune reactions like food allergies, leaky gut, chornic fatigue and etc. These damaged proteins cannot be used by the body for regeneration and instead become waste or inflammatory triggers. Cooked proteins are nutritionally empty and are only harmful, building up in joints and tissues causing pain and stiffness.
Studies
Conclusion is that modern food safety doesnt support human health, by eating naturallly you preserve delicate nutrients, enzymes and natural bacteria that aid digestion, immunity and detoxification. Cooking at high temps degrade vital heat sensitive nutrients, oxidize fats and denature proteins, contributing to inflammation and nutrient deficiencies over time.
Inspired by Ajoonus Vonderplanitz and Sv3rige
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Ajoonus Vonderplanitz Sv3rige


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We Want To Live: The Primal Diet - Ajoonus Vonderplanitz
tt: https://www.tiktok.com/@foidkllr
 
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Bump
 
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DNR but agree
i only cook it bc im a bitch and past most of my development
at least I don't eat any bullshit
 
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Raw Primal Diet

Bacteria / Parasite Psyop

The main argument against raw primalism is the harmful bacterias and parasites people claim to exist within the diet which is what im going to be talking about.


What Bacteria Is And Its Importance
Bacterias and parasites are our friends, dont let the fear mongering get to you. Bacteria is needed in the body to help digest dead / decaying cells and waste which is essential for the human body's health, without microbes your skin, gut and blood would be full of dead matter, toxins and rotting tissues. Gut bacteria regulates hormones, mood and brain function through the gut-brain axis, your gut and brain are directly connected through the vagus nerve and a complex network of chemical signals. Gut bacteria produce and influence many of these signals affecting your brain and mood. The gut is a fermentation system, not a sterile tube. Raw food and especially raw animal products carry benefical bacteria that predigest food and help extract nutrients.

Your doctors and medical professionals are unintentionally lying to you because they often misunderstand bacterias role, seeing them as harmful rather than beneficial. "Bad bacteria" are not naturally occurring but are manmade laboratory strains. Pathogenic bacteria always arises in unnatural conditions like factory farms, sterilized labs and hospitals. "When we mess with natures balance through antibiotics, processed foods and chemicals, we create enviornments where only aggressive, mutated strains survive"

Parasites
are apart of natures cleanup crew, they break down waste, regulate populations and sometimes even protect against autoimmune disease. In the wild most animals live with a load of parasites and function just fine, sometimes better. Experiments with whipmorm parasites have shown therapeutic benefits for digestive issues.

Aajoonus Vonderplanitz Experiment → The Bacteria & Parasite Deception - Aajonus Vonderplanitz

The presence of bacteria like salmonella and e. coli in the body is common and not necessarily indicative of disease.

Symptomps like vomiting and diarrhea are detoxification processes, not bacterial attacks.
Studies


The Problem Of Sterilization, Cooking And Pasteurization
When you cook, pasteurize or sterilize you kill the very bacteria that allows food to digest and regenerate the body. When you heat food above ~118°F (48°C), you denature proteins, kill enzymes and destroy most beneficial bacteria. These enzymes and b acterias are living components necessary for digestion, detoxification and cellular repair, without them the food rots inside your gut causing fermentation, gas, bloating and long-term tissue damage.
When you cook meat you destroy or significantly reduce heat-sensitive nutrients like B vitamins (B1, B5, B6 and folate), Vitamin C in organ meats, certain amino acids through processes like Maillard reactions and protein denaturation while also oxidizing essential fats and damage enzymes crucial for digestion.
Studies:

Cooking creates toxic byproducts that the body cannot safely use and must detofixy, store in fat or wall of in tumors, cyst and inflammation.

Advanced Glycation End Products (AGEs) (TOXIC BYPRODUCT)
(High-heat cooking like frying, grilling and roasting)
When sugars especially from carbs or lactose react with proteins or fats under high heat, they form AGEs which are toxic com pounds that damage cells, arteries, skin and organs. AGEs also accelerates aging, wrinkles the skin, hardens blood vessels and clogs the kidneys and brain. AGEs are a major cause of diseases like alzheimers, arthritis, and cardiovascular problems.

Heterocyclic Amines (HCAs) (TOXIC BYPRODUCT)
(Found in cooked meat, especially charred or browned meat)
These form when amino acids and create in meat are exposed to high temperatures. HCAs are mutagenic which means they can damage DNA and increase the risk of cancer, especially colon, prostate and breast cancer.

Acrylamide
(
Acrylamide is a neurotoxic chemical formed in starchy foods like potatoes, bread or cookies when baked, roasted or fried at high temps)
Acrylamide has been linked to nerve damage, hormone disruption and cancer, it doesnt exist in raw food and is a direct result of industrialized food prep.

Lipid Peroxides and Trans Fats
Fats exposed to heat (especially vegetable oils, but also animal fats when overheated)
When these fats are exposed to heat they oxidize and become rancid, forming lipid peroxides. These damage cell membranes, trigger inflammation and contribute to heart disease, autoimmune disorders and cancer. Even cooking with good fats like butter or tallow can make them toxic if overheated.

Denatured Proteins
(Cooking unfolds and mutates proteins)
When you cook proteins you unfold and mutate them, making them harder to digest and more likely to cause immune reactions like food allergies, leaky gut, chornic fatigue and etc. These damaged proteins cannot be used by the body for regeneration and instead become waste or inflammatory triggers. Cooked proteins are nutritionally empty and are only harmful, building up in joints and tissues causing pain and stiffness.
Studies
Conclusion is that modern food safety doesnt support human health, by eating naturallly you preserve delicate nutrients, enzymes and natural bacteria that aid digestion, immunity and detoxification. Cooking at high temps degrade vital heat sensitive nutrients, oxidize fats and denature proteins, contributing to inflammation and nutrient deficiencies over time.
Inspired by Ajoonus Vonderplanitz and Sv3rige
View attachment 3801692View attachment 3801693

Ajoonus Vonderplanitz Sv3rige


View attachment 3801694
We Want To Live: The Primal Diet - Ajoonus Vonderplanitz
tt: https://www.tiktok.com/@foidkllr
Didn't goatis go to the hospital twice?
 
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water atp, ive been eating supermarket raw chicken and beef for ~6 months 0 side effects
 
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He went to the hospital because he didnt eat for a month, not because of raw meat
Cooked meat taste better than raw meat anyways
 
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He went to the hospital because he didnt eat for a month, not because of raw meat
he ate raw bone marrow (where most of toxins store) from a bad source and got a thing that disables muscles and almost died
 
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Raw Primal Diet

Bacteria / Parasite Psyop

The main argument against raw primalism is the harmful bacterias and parasites people claim to exist within the diet which is what im going to be talking about.


What Bacteria Is And Its Importance
Bacterias and parasites are our friends, dont let the fear mongering get to you. Bacteria is needed in the body to help digest dead / decaying cells and waste which is essential for the human body's health, without microbes your skin, gut and blood would be full of dead matter, toxins and rotting tissues. Gut bacteria regulates hormones, mood and brain function through the gut-brain axis, your gut and brain are directly connected through the vagus nerve and a complex network of chemical signals. Gut bacteria produce and influence many of these signals affecting your brain and mood. The gut is a fermentation system, not a sterile tube. Raw food and especially raw animal products carry benefical bacteria that predigest food and help extract nutrients.

Your doctors and medical professionals are unintentionally lying to you because they often misunderstand bacterias role, seeing them as harmful rather than beneficial. "Bad bacteria" are not naturally occurring but are manmade laboratory strains. Pathogenic bacteria always arises in unnatural conditions like factory farms, sterilized labs and hospitals. "When we mess with natures balance through antibiotics, processed foods and chemicals, we create enviornments where only aggressive, mutated strains survive"

Parasites
are apart of natures cleanup crew, they break down waste, regulate populations and sometimes even protect against autoimmune disease. In the wild most animals live with a load of parasites and function just fine, sometimes better. Experiments with whipmorm parasites have shown therapeutic benefits for digestive issues.

Aajoonus Vonderplanitz Experiment → The Bacteria & Parasite Deception - Aajonus Vonderplanitz

The presence of bacteria like salmonella and e. coli in the body is common and not necessarily indicative of disease.

Symptomps like vomiting and diarrhea are detoxification processes, not bacterial attacks.
Studies


The Problem Of Sterilization, Cooking And Pasteurization
When you cook, pasteurize or sterilize you kill the very bacteria that allows food to digest and regenerate the body. When you heat food above ~118°F (48°C), you denature proteins, kill enzymes and destroy most beneficial bacteria. These enzymes and b acterias are living components necessary for digestion, detoxification and cellular repair, without them the food rots inside your gut causing fermentation, gas, bloating and long-term tissue damage.
When you cook meat you destroy or significantly reduce heat-sensitive nutrients like B vitamins (B1, B5, B6 and folate), Vitamin C in organ meats, certain amino acids through processes like Maillard reactions and protein denaturation while also oxidizing essential fats and damage enzymes crucial for digestion.
Studies:

Cooking creates toxic byproducts that the body cannot safely use and must detofixy, store in fat or wall of in tumors, cyst and inflammation.

Advanced Glycation End Products (AGEs) (TOXIC BYPRODUCT)
(High-heat cooking like frying, grilling and roasting)
When sugars especially from carbs or lactose react with proteins or fats under high heat, they form AGEs which are toxic com pounds that damage cells, arteries, skin and organs. AGEs also accelerates aging, wrinkles the skin, hardens blood vessels and clogs the kidneys and brain. AGEs are a major cause of diseases like alzheimers, arthritis, and cardiovascular problems.

Heterocyclic Amines (HCAs) (TOXIC BYPRODUCT)
(Found in cooked meat, especially charred or browned meat)
These form when amino acids and create in meat are exposed to high temperatures. HCAs are mutagenic which means they can damage DNA and increase the risk of cancer, especially colon, prostate and breast cancer.

Acrylamide
(
Acrylamide is a neurotoxic chemical formed in starchy foods like potatoes, bread or cookies when baked, roasted or fried at high temps)
Acrylamide has been linked to nerve damage, hormone disruption and cancer, it doesnt exist in raw food and is a direct result of industrialized food prep.

Lipid Peroxides and Trans Fats
Fats exposed to heat (especially vegetable oils, but also animal fats when overheated)
When these fats are exposed to heat they oxidize and become rancid, forming lipid peroxides. These damage cell membranes, trigger inflammation and contribute to heart disease, autoimmune disorders and cancer. Even cooking with good fats like butter or tallow can make them toxic if overheated.

Denatured Proteins
(Cooking unfolds and mutates proteins)
When you cook proteins you unfold and mutate them, making them harder to digest and more likely to cause immune reactions like food allergies, leaky gut, chornic fatigue and etc. These damaged proteins cannot be used by the body for regeneration and instead become waste or inflammatory triggers. Cooked proteins are nutritionally empty and are only harmful, building up in joints and tissues causing pain and stiffness.
Studies
Conclusion is that modern food safety doesnt support human health, by eating naturallly you preserve delicate nutrients, enzymes and natural bacteria that aid digestion, immunity and detoxification. Cooking at high temps degrade vital heat sensitive nutrients, oxidize fats and denature proteins, contributing to inflammation and nutrient deficiencies over time.
Inspired by Ajoonus Vonderplanitz and Sv3rige
View attachment 3801692View attachment 3801693

Ajoonus Vonderplanitz Sv3rige


View attachment 3801694
We Want To Live: The Primal Diet - Ajoonus Vonderplanitz
tt: https://www.tiktok.com/@foidkllr
high iq post
 
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he ate raw bone marrow (where most of toxins store) from a bad source and got a thing that disables muscles and almost died
Trust he just wanted the steam cells
 
  • Ugh..
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he ate raw bone marrow (where most of toxins store) from a bad source and got a thing that disables muscles and almost died
this aswell, i forgot to mention that
 
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blah blah blah
 
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water
 
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@Zeekie i summon you to disprove this!
 
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  • JFL
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got sick the first time i tried raw meat, not saying all raw meat is bad but.. :forcedsmile:
 
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gonna order some pizza #ILoveBeing4'8
First time it's like ew or it's not bad but once you get that good feeling that you know you are getting all the micronutrients and your body heals it's amazing
 
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First time it's like ew or it's not bad but once you get that good feeling that you know you are getting all the micronutrients and your body heals it's amazing
1749138521377

you cant lie, you want it cooked like this
 
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Reactions: foidk3llr
Raw Primal Diet

Bacteria / Parasite Psyop

The main argument against raw primalism is the harmful bacterias and parasites people claim to exist within the diet which is what im going to be talking about.


What Bacteria Is And Its Importance
Bacterias and parasites are our friends, dont let the fear mongering get to you. Bacteria is needed in the body to help digest dead / decaying cells and waste which is essential for the human body's health, without microbes your skin, gut and blood would be full of dead matter, toxins and rotting tissues. Gut bacteria regulates hormones, mood and brain function through the gut-brain axis, your gut and brain are directly connected through the vagus nerve and a complex network of chemical signals. Gut bacteria produce and influence many of these signals affecting your brain and mood. The gut is a fermentation system, not a sterile tube. Raw food and especially raw animal products carry benefical bacteria that predigest food and help extract nutrients.

Your doctors and medical professionals are unintentionally lying to you because they often misunderstand bacterias role, seeing them as harmful rather than beneficial. "Bad bacteria" are not naturally occurring but are manmade laboratory strains. Pathogenic bacteria always arises in unnatural conditions like factory farms, sterilized labs and hospitals. "When we mess with natures balance through antibiotics, processed foods and chemicals, we create enviornments where only aggressive, mutated strains survive"

Parasites
are apart of natures cleanup crew, they break down waste, regulate populations and sometimes even protect against autoimmune disease. In the wild most animals live with a load of parasites and function just fine, sometimes better. Experiments with whipmorm parasites have shown therapeutic benefits for digestive issues.

Aajoonus Vonderplanitz Experiment → The Bacteria & Parasite Deception - Aajonus Vonderplanitz

The presence of bacteria like salmonella and e. coli in the body is common and not necessarily indicative of disease.

Symptomps like vomiting and diarrhea are detoxification processes, not bacterial attacks.
Studies


The Problem Of Sterilization, Cooking And Pasteurization
When you cook, pasteurize or sterilize you kill the very bacteria that allows food to digest and regenerate the body. When you heat food above ~118°F (48°C), you denature proteins, kill enzymes and destroy most beneficial bacteria. These enzymes and b acterias are living components necessary for digestion, detoxification and cellular repair, without them the food rots inside your gut causing fermentation, gas, bloating and long-term tissue damage.
When you cook meat you destroy or significantly reduce heat-sensitive nutrients like B vitamins (B1, B5, B6 and folate), Vitamin C in organ meats, certain amino acids through processes like Maillard reactions and protein denaturation while also oxidizing essential fats and damage enzymes crucial for digestion.
Studies:

Cooking creates toxic byproducts that the body cannot safely use and must detofixy, store in fat or wall of in tumors, cyst and inflammation.

Advanced Glycation End Products (AGEs) (TOXIC BYPRODUCT)
(High-heat cooking like frying, grilling and roasting)
When sugars especially from carbs or lactose react with proteins or fats under high heat, they form AGEs which are toxic com pounds that damage cells, arteries, skin and organs. AGEs also accelerates aging, wrinkles the skin, hardens blood vessels and clogs the kidneys and brain. AGEs are a major cause of diseases like alzheimers, arthritis, and cardiovascular problems.

Heterocyclic Amines (HCAs) (TOXIC BYPRODUCT)
(Found in cooked meat, especially charred or browned meat)
These form when amino acids and create in meat are exposed to high temperatures. HCAs are mutagenic which means they can damage DNA and increase the risk of cancer, especially colon, prostate and breast cancer.

Acrylamide
(
Acrylamide is a neurotoxic chemical formed in starchy foods like potatoes, bread or cookies when baked, roasted or fried at high temps)
Acrylamide has been linked to nerve damage, hormone disruption and cancer, it doesnt exist in raw food and is a direct result of industrialized food prep.

Lipid Peroxides and Trans Fats
Fats exposed to heat (especially vegetable oils, but also animal fats when overheated)
When these fats are exposed to heat they oxidize and become rancid, forming lipid peroxides. These damage cell membranes, trigger inflammation and contribute to heart disease, autoimmune disorders and cancer. Even cooking with good fats like butter or tallow can make them toxic if overheated.

Denatured Proteins
(Cooking unfolds and mutates proteins)
When you cook proteins you unfold and mutate them, making them harder to digest and more likely to cause immune reactions like food allergies, leaky gut, chornic fatigue and etc. These damaged proteins cannot be used by the body for regeneration and instead become waste or inflammatory triggers. Cooked proteins are nutritionally empty and are only harmful, building up in joints and tissues causing pain and stiffness.
Studies
Conclusion is that modern food safety doesnt support human health, by eating naturallly you preserve delicate nutrients, enzymes and natural bacteria that aid digestion, immunity and detoxification. Cooking at high temps degrade vital heat sensitive nutrients, oxidize fats and denature proteins, contributing to inflammation and nutrient deficiencies over time.
Inspired by Ajoonus Vonderplanitz and Sv3rige
View attachment 3801692View attachment 3801693

Ajoonus Vonderplanitz Sv3rige


View attachment 3801694
We Want To Live: The Primal Diet - Ajoonus Vonderplanitz
tt: https://www.tiktok.com/@foidkllr
I May be wrong, but raw meat and low rare meat have the same characteristics, and also, our body doesnt absorv as many nutrientes with raw meat as it does with cooked
 
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What Bacteria Is And Its Importance
Bacterias and parasites are our friends, dont let the fear mongering get to you. Bacteria is needed in the body to help digest dead / decaying cells and waste which is essential for the human body's health, without microbes your skin, gut and blood would be full of dead matter, toxins and rotting tissues. Gut bacteria regulates hormones, mood and brain function through the gut-brain axis, your gut and brain are directly connected through the vagus nerve and a complex network of chemical signals. Gut bacteria produce and influence many of these signals affecting your brain and mood. The gut is a fermentation system, not a sterile tube. Raw food and especially raw animal products carry benefical bacteria that predigest food and help extract nutrients.

Your doctors and medical professionals are unintentionally lying to you because they often misunderstand bacterias role, seeing them as harmful rather than beneficial. "Bad bacteria" are not naturally occurring but are manmade laboratory strains. Pathogenic bacteria always arises in unnatural conditions like factory farms, sterilized labs and hospitals. "When we mess with natures balance through antibiotics, processed foods and chemicals, we create enviornments where only aggressive, mutated strains survive"

Parasites
are apart of natures cleanup crew, they break down waste, regulate populations and sometimes even protect against autoimmune disease. In the wild most animals live with a load of parasites and function just fine, sometimes better. Experiments with whipmorm parasites have shown therapeutic benefits for digestive issues.
Point 1:"Bacteria and parasites are our friends" No, parasites are not our friends they are active pathogens continually infesting your body.

Point 2:" Bacteria is necessary in the body in order to break down dead/decaying cells" Bacteria is NOT needed to digest our own dead/decaying cells, our body does that already on its own without bacteria.

Point 3: "Raw animal products carry benefical bactera" This is true, however, eating raw animals come with the risks mentioned before. Simply eat other probiotic foods that have the same impact and without the risks. (yogurt, kefir, etc). It's retarded to eat animal foods RAW for the simple and negligible impact on the microbiome when safer better alternatives exist.

Point 4: "Parasites are apart of natures cleanup crew by breaking down waste and regulating populations." Most parasites have co-evolved with their hosts which we didn't. The studies you're referring to were done in controlled exposure to the parasites. The studies are not meant to drive you retards into eating raw meat. "Boy oh Boy, I love eating raw animal meat with parasites I don't even know the name of! :feelsuhh:"

The presence of bacteria like salmonella and e. coli in the body is common and not necessarily indicative of disease.

Symptomps like vomiting and diarrhea are detoxification processes, not bacterial attacks.
Studies
Point 1: "Presence of salmonella and e.coli in the body is common and not a sign of disease." Yes in some cases they are not indicative of disease, that is the exception not the rule. When consuming raw meat you are not ingesting one strain of salmonella, you are consuming hundreds maybe thousands (which in the case of salmonella is almost always indicative of disease). Sure there are good strains of ecoli but you're overlooking how only one strain is needed to get in to cause severe illness and death. Why do all of this when you can get better bacteria from cleaner sources at a fraction of the price without having to eat raw meat? Your argument is retarded and surface level at best.

Point 2: "Their presence in the body is common" Yes, these bacteria are incredibly common in sick individuals.

Study #1: "In particular, lesions from mice colonized with either E. coli ST129 or ST375 and treated with DSS were characterized by extensive epithelial ulceration, submucosal and mucosal edema, neutrophilic, and monocytic cell infiltration, gland hyperplasia and stromal collapse" Translation: Mice with ecoli strains exacerbated damage from gut inflammation and hindered recovery. Ecoli isn't a harmless bystander Instead, during gut inflammation, they actively contribute to intestinal damage, meaning they have disease causing potential. This study also only looked at 4 commensal e.coli strains. "Together, these results demonstrate that commensal E. coli populations have strain-specific, disease-causing potentials during intestinal inflammation." Commensal means where one organism benefits, while the other is neither harmed or benefited, but in this study it's clear to see these commensal e.coli strains actually can act as parasites under the right conditions. If anything this study proves the bacteria we thought did nothing actually cause damage. "In the current study, we found that randomly chosen, freshly isolated gut commensal E. coli strains displayed either a neutral effect on inflammation induced by DSS or they exacerbated inflammation, ultimately leading to overt disease."

Study #2:
Explicitly states that diarrhea was caused by the salmonella strains ingested "The analysis showed that the ST was a statistically significant (P = 0.0432) contributor to variation in clinical presentation." and it persisted for weeks. It also states new mutated strains developed in the infected individuals became MDR (Bacteria that are immune to multiple drugs, aka they are immune to anti-bacteria.) Meaning if your body lacks the ability to fight the bacteria off on it's own, you are fucked. The only thing this study does to support OPs arg is that it can boost your immune system because it's fighting an infectious disease. Made no claim that this was a "detoxification process" :lul: and provided proof of the contrary.

Study #3: The study has nothing to do with raw meat. It just compares the effects a plant-based and animal-based diets have on the gut microbiome. The food is obviously cooked not raw. Even with the cooking a animal based diet showed "high-fat diets lead to increased enteric deoxycholic concentrations (DCA); this secondary bile acid is the product of microbial metabolism and promotes liver cancer26." "Deoxycholic acid, a secondary bile acid known to promote DNA damage and hepatic carcinomas26, accumulates significantly on the animal-based diet (p<0.01, two-sided Wilcoxon signed-rank test;" I am not saying animal-based foods are bad but instead to show the inherit risks of an animal only diet, eating it raw only exacerbates the known risks of disease and death. Eat a balanced diet of plants and cooked foods to maximize your gut microbiome and staying healthy.

Study #4: Taken down or doesn't exist

Study #5: Taken down or doesn't exist

Study #6:
Same study as study #2 just published under PubMed.

(notice how the studies he used to support his claim out rightly disprove it or don't even talk about his claims? It's an indicator that OP didn't even bother to read through them, strip this gunks right to type in this forum)
The Problem Of Sterilization, Cooking And Pasteurization
When you cook, pasteurize or sterilize you kill the very bacteria that allows food to digest and regenerate the body. When you heat food above ~118°F (48°C), you denature proteins, kill enzymes and destroy most beneficial bacteria. These enzymes and b acterias are living components necessary for digestion, detoxification and cellular repair, without them the food rots inside your gut causing fermentation, gas, bloating and long-term tissue damage.
When you cook meat you destroy or significantly reduce heat-sensitive nutrients like B vitamins (B1, B5, B6 and folate), Vitamin C in organ meats, certain amino acids through processes like Maillard reactions and protein denaturation while also oxidizing essential fats and damage enzymes crucial for digestion.
Studies:
Point 1: "Cooking kills the bacteria necessary to digest food and regenerate the body" Yes, heating your food will kill all the bacteria that aren't heat resistant, including the good ones along with the bad. Your body already has a developed microbiome from your parents and years of eating food that digests the food you eat. You don't need the bacteria found on food to digest it, that's just retarded. You do lose the good bacteria that could have joined forces with your existing microbiome but you also lose parasites, bad bacteria, and viruses.

Point 2: "Cooking denatures proteins, kills enzymes, and destroys beneficial bacteria necessary for digestion, detoxification and cellular repair without them, the rots in your gut" Yes, cooking denatures proteins. It is saving our body hell of a lot of energy from denaturing the proteins by itself. Denaturing proteins is not a bad thing you gunk :feelsuhh::ROFLMAO:. It is the denaturing of proteins that makes cooking very viable in terms of energy conservation and nutrient absorption because it makes it easier for the body to do so.

Enzymes found in raw food are not needed to digest the food or for anything! Most of the enzymes you will ingest from the raw animal you just ate get broken down instantly the moment they fall in your stomach. Your body also has these really cool organs that make enzymes to break down the food you eat (pancreas, stomach, intestines). You don't depend on food enzymes your body already makes its own.

People who ingest raw food are more at risk of "food rotting in your gut" because they ingest copious amounts of harmful bacteria that deregulated digestion and cause issues. People who suffer from "bloat, fermentation, and long term-tissue damage" are people with food intolerances who can't handle the food they are eating or are eating way too much fiber. The whole point of cooked food is that it's easier to digest.

Point 3: "When you cook food you lose b vitamins, along with others" Yes, you lose b vitamins, vitamin c, and reduce amino acid bioavailability (they also become denatured so it also increases bioavailability). That isn't a reason to eat food raw. You can get your b vitamins and c vitamins from veggies, diary, legumes, roots, and etc, same with vitamin c. Cooking does oxidize fats, however, you still get a significant source of the fats regardless if you cooked it. The fats in a steak don't magically oxidize when you cook it on a cast iron. The outside layer sure, but the interior is still full of unoxidized fats and nutrients that haven't broken down. (if you eat your steak well-done then that's on you). So in conclusion, you do lose b vitamins and c vitamins, but you can source these vitamins from a variety of different foods that taste better and don't come with the risks of eating raw animal foods. Yes some fats are oxidized as well but the majority of saturated fat stay untouched.

Study #1 My institution does not have access to this study

Study #2 Needs direct permission from authors to read (op used an abstract to supporting his arg :feelsuhh:)

Study #3
Showed us what we already knew, drop in vitamins due to cooking (Frying being the biggest loss and grilling having the highest retention rate). Should also make the note that this was done on very lean chicken breast not marbled beef or other sorts of meat that can hold the nutrients a-lot better. Here are the losses in nutrients from this study
Legend: AF = Air Frying
BK = Baking
DF = Deep Frying
GR = Grilling

1749148980441

1749149045041

1749149091442
1749149066073
1749149110796
1749149137329
1749149151521

Now is eating raw meat and risking health complications really worth the negligible increase in minerals that you can source from alternate foods? If you're sub 70 IQ maybe it'd seem worth it.
Cooking creates toxic byproducts that the body cannot safely use and must detofixy, store in fat or wall of in tumors, cyst and inflammation.
Advanced Glycation End Products (AGEs) (TOXIC BYPRODUCT)
(High-heat cooking like frying, grilling and roasting)
When sugars especially from carbs or lactose react with proteins or fats under high heat, they form AGEs which are toxic com pounds that damage cells, arteries, skin and organs. AGEs also accelerates aging, wrinkles the skin, hardens blood vessels and clogs the kidneys and brain. AGEs are a major cause of diseases like alzheimers, arthritis, and cardiovascular problems.

Heterocyclic Amines (HCAs) (TOXIC BYPRODUCT)
(Found in cooked meat, especially charred or browned meat)
These form when amino acids and create in meat are exposed to high temperatures. HCAs are mutagenic which means they can damage DNA and increase the risk of cancer, especially colon, prostate and breast cancer.

Acrylamide
(
Acrylamide is a neurotoxic chemical formed in starchy foods like potatoes, bread or cookies when baked, roasted or fried at high temps)
Acrylamide has been linked to nerve damage, hormone disruption and cancer, it doesnt exist in raw food and is a direct result of industrialized food prep.

Lipid Peroxides and Trans Fats
Fats exposed to heat (especially vegetable oils, but also animal fats when overheated)
When these fats are exposed to heat they oxidize and become rancid, forming lipid peroxides. These damage cell membranes, trigger inflammation and contribute to heart disease, autoimmune disorders and cancer. Even cooking with good fats like butter or tallow can make them toxic if overheated.

Denatured Proteins
(Cooking unfolds and mutates proteins)
When you cook proteins you unfold and mutate them, making them harder to digest and more likely to cause immune reactions like food allergies, leaky gut, chornic fatigue and etc. These damaged proteins cannot be used by the body for regeneration and instead become waste or inflammatory triggers. Cooked proteins are nutritionally empty and are only harmful, building up in joints and tissues causing pain and stiffness.
Studies
Conclusion is that modern food safety doesnt support human health, by eating naturallly you preserve delicate nutrients, enzymes and natural bacteria that aid digestion, immunity and detoxification. Cooking at high temps degrade vital heat sensitive nutrients, oxidize fats and denature proteins, contributing to inflammation and nutrient deficiencies over time.
Inspired by Ajoonus Vonderplanitz and Sv3rige
View attachment 3801692View attachment 3801693

Ajoonus Vonderplanitz Sv3rige


View attachment 3801694
We Want To Live: The Primal Diet - Ajoonus Vonderplanitz
tt: https://www.tiktok.com/@foidkllr
Point 1: "Cooking creates toxic byproducts that the body cannot safely use and must detofixy, store in fat or wall of in tumors, cyst and inflammation." No, your body can safely get rid of these byproducts, in excess AGES can cause inflammation, oxidation, and chronic disease when consumed in excess (eating mcdonalds or steak every day) or in people with poor metabolisms and can't handle the added stress (think diabetes). Your body already deals with AGEs through enzyme breakdown, filtration using your kidneys, and cell renewal. So the AGES that do get stored in your cells eventually breakdown or get filtered out like the rest once your cells breakdown. The issue is we slowly begin to lose that ability as we age and then AGEs begin to accumulate. Cells that renew slowly will accumulate ages slowly, but this can be offset through a balanced diet and a healthy lifestyle. Finally, there is 0 scientific literature showing AGES as a major cause for alzheimers (too lazy to check the other 2 complications but I won't surprised if they have no relationship whatsoever)

Study #1: Doesn't even speak to any of the points made by op, a study about the microbiota and how it effects health. (did he even bother to read any of the studies he referenced??) Genuinely how does this study have anything to do with AGEs, HCAs, Effects of denatured proteins, and fats? The study emphasizes a varied and fiber rich diet all throughout and their impact on health.

The rest of this is all too retarded for me to take seriously and is just regurgitation of retarded tropes

Denaturing proteins does not Mutate them :lul:. Denatured proteins are not waste, they are not nutritionally empty, they are not stored in joints (First time I've heard this one), they don't cause stiffness, cause 0 of the symptoms u mentioned (Cooking your food actually helps with some of them),they are used for regeneration, and finally cooking your food makes the proteins easier to digest not harder.


TLDR/CONCLUSION
-OP is retarded
-wasted my time reading through all of these poorly cited and misused articles.
-I feel bad for the researchers having their work misinterpreted and used to support dogshit raw rhetoric by this retard .
-Modern food safety practices support human health.

By eating properly cooked foods and avoiding raw animal products, you protect yourself from infectious diseases with only minimal loss of nutrients, enzymes (which would be broken down during digestion anyway), and naturally occurring bacteria (which your gut already hosts in abundance). The sources OP cited (That weren't read by) actually support this point. Consuming raw meat can introduce harmful pathogens, compromise immune function, and disrupt the balance of your gut microbiome. It also increases the risk of viral and bacterial infections, especially in cases of injury or weakened immunity(Not to mention raw meat weakens immunity not strengthens). Any minor vitamin loss from cooking can be offset by eating a balanced diet that includes fermented foods, vegetables, and other nutrient-rich options that don't carry the risks that raw meat does.
 
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i really wanna see you disprove this
"Bacteria / Parasite Psyop"
This isn't a 'psyop', these threats are real and have proven deadly. For instance, the 2011 listeria outbreak linked to cantaloupes killed 33 people (cdc.gov/listeria/outbreaks/cantaloupes-jensen-farms). Listeria, can also be found in meat.

I quote: 'Most (58%) illnesses were caused by norovirus, followed by nontyphoidal Salmonella spp. (11%), Clostridium perfringens (10%), and Campylobacter spp. (9%). Leading causes of hospitalization were nontyphoidal Salmonella spp. (35%), norovirus (26%), Campylobacter spp. (15%), and Toxoplasma gondii (8%)' (pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21192848/). Cholera, which is mostly contracted from contaminated seafood or water, also continues to cause death around the world... (pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/14738797/).

You also speak about "harmful compounds created in cooking", but ignore that bacteria and parasites do the same thing. They cause immune responses because they damage cells and, most importantly, release toxic byproducts. For example, Clostridium botulinum produces a deadly neurotoxin, and Trichinella spiralis can invade and damage brain cells.

"What Bacteria Is And Its Importance"
This is your worst claim. You've made points about the gut microbiome's importance for longevity and health, and yes, a good gut microbiome is beneficial.

HOWEVER, the idea that 'bacteria and parasites are our friends' is just plain wrong. 'Bad bacteria' absolutely exist in food, E. coli is one of the most common! While many microorganisms are good for your gut, harmful strains like E. coli are NOT. So, how do you explain flesh-eating microorganisms? Are they our friends too? Should we just let them into our bodies? Hell no.


"Bad bacteria are not naturally occurring but are manmade laboratory strains."
This isn't an argument or a fact, it's a literal conspiracy theory. We've known about E. coli since the late 19th century. If you have any knowledge of the history of biology and genetic engineering, you'd know that back then, we barely understood what a bacteria was, let alone have the technology for genomic alteration. We still struggle to insert even a single gene into a microorganism. Do you understand the difficulty and astronomical cost of creating 'bad bacteria' in a lab, especially over 100 years ago?

Your point about antibiotic resistance in medicine is completely out of context. Yes, it's a growing medical concern that our abuse of antibiotics drives bacterial evolution helping resistant strains pass down their genes. But you're ignoring the fundamental reason we began using antibiotics in the first place. Microorganisms caused severe illness and death long before we even understood antibiotic resistance, we didn't start using antibiotics 'just because', it was to combat naturally occurring pathogens causing issues.

"Parasites are apart of natures cleanup crew"
Parasites are beneficial in only a few cases. If you become infected, your body will almost certainly have an immune response to eliminate them. Do you understand why this occurs? It's because parasites actively harm the host.

Using wild animals as a health guideline is also pretty dumb. Firstly, a wild animal usually lives to the age of, I don't know, 30 years? And often much less because they suffer from parasites, injuries, and chronic hunger. Secondly, many animals have mechanisms to combat parasites, whether through consuming specific anti-parasitic plants or forming symbiotic relationships with other creatures that remove them. This is proof that even in nature, parasites are often an issue and not a benefit.

Nature is optimized for survival, not for health or longevity. Contrast this with modern medical understanding, which has dramatically reduced mortality from diseases like smallpox by 100% and polio by 99, while raising the average human lifespan from approximately 30-40 in medieval ages (when parasites and bacteria were the real issue) to over 70-80 globally today.



"The Problem Of Sterilization, Cooking And Pasteurization"
Setting aside incongruent claims about 'food rotting in your stomach' which is based on... nothing, we can talk about food preparation. Yes, food safety techniques denature proteins, destroy some enzymes, and reduce certain beneficial bacteria. However, their primary and life-saving purpose is to eliminate harmful bacteria and parasites that pose a threat to human health.

It is also true that cooking can reduce water-soluble vitamin content. Yet, this destruction is only partial with a significant amount remaining, so the nutritional loss is never as severe as claimed by raw diet followers. Also, deficiencies in vitamins like B1, folate, or vitamin C are VERY rare in populations with varied diets because countless other foods contribute to meeting the RDI for these vitamins. So even with all their food cooked people will rarely be deficient in water-soluble vitamins, most deficiencies actually occur in fat-soluble ones, which aren't affected by cooking.

"Advanced Glycation End Products (AGEs) (TOXIC BYPRODUCT)"
It is true that Milliard reactions from AGEs in food, but it's an exaggeration to say that dietary AGEs are a concern. Your own metabolism generates AGEs endogenously, and these internal processes contribute far more to your total AGE levels than food ever will.

It's like the stupid argument that "milk consumption is bad due to its estrogen content" when the mere presence of an estrogen isn't necessarily bad when we consider the quantity and bioavailability. Research shows that the estrogen in a glass of milk has negligible effects on hormone levels, you have to consume unholy amounts of milk to get a 1% change in your estrogen. Just like this dietary AGEs are not absorbed in biologically significant amounts to change systemic AGE levels.

Also, the relationship between AGEs and disease is correlational, not of direct causation. I quote:
"Direct causation hasn’t been firmly established, and it’s unclear whether moderate intake of dietary AGEs in the context of an otherwise healthy diet is a meaningful independent risk factor for chronic disease."

"Heterocyclic Amines (HCAs) (TOXIC BYPRODUCT)"
You're correct that HCAs are formed when muscle meat is cooked at high temperatures, and the National Cancer Institute (NCI) acknowledges that they're an issue. Here's the issue though, most studies linking HCAs to cancer are in rodents fed unrealistically high doses and epidemiological studies in humans show weak correlations between well-done meat and cancer risk.

In any case, no health guidance suggests consuming charred meat. Moderation and varied cooking methods are important here...

I'd love to cite research about it but I just couldn't lol. Some papers say "Yeah, it causes cancer" but then not even a paragraph later say "it was difficult to account for individual lifestyle and that it is true that individual with lower HCA also tend to generally live healthier lives, exercise, etc." And studies that claimed HCA was not of primary concern were not that convincing to me. HCA is a carcinogen, that's true, but the degree to where that's an issue is probably very small given the very inconsistent evidence, but then again, no one is suggesting you eat charred meat.

"Acrylamide"
This is a non-issue just like the other two, the dose makes the poison. Exceedingly high doses of certain chemicals can cause effects in rodents but this is irrelevant in conservative quantities humans consume through their diet.

Coffee is literally charred beans and is high in acrylamide which as you said has been classified as a probable human carcinogen by the IARC (based largely on animal studies). But despite its acrylamide content research consistently links moderate coffee consumption to a reduced risk of various diseases, including heart disease, Parkinson's, and certain cancers. Coffee has a wide array of benefitial compounds (like antioxidants) which can improve health outcomes, overriding the potential negative effects of a single chemical in low concentrations.

"Lipid Peroxides and Trans Fats"
We agree on this, oxidized lipids are harmful, and I also avoid cooking with highly polyunsaturated vegetable oils and limit high-PUFA meats.

However, the key distinction is that under normal cooking conditions, with appropriate fats and temperatures, these harmful compounds are not produced. If you're not cooking with certain fats, and not reusing them, this isn't an issue for you.

"Denatured Proteins"
This point isn't supported by any research.

1. 'Cooking proteins mutates them.' This is just me being pedantic, I get what you meant, but it's always good to make corrections. Cooking causes proteins to denature which unfolds them and breaks their 3d structure, but it doesn't mutate them. Mutation is a change in genetic material.
2. 'These damaged proteins cannot be used by the body and become waste or inflammatory triggers.' This is completely false. Cooked proteins are broken down into amino acids by our digestive system, just like raw proteins. In fact, studies show that cooking significantly improves protein digestibility and bioavailability (PMID: 23593443/PMID: 33375299). Our bodies utilize individual amino acids, not whole protein structures. Also I found ZERO evidence to suggest that cooking makes them inflammatory.
3. 'Cooked proteins are nutritionally empty and harmful, building up in joints and tissues causing pain and stiffness.' This is just a baseless claim. No evidence on it at all.

Your sources
Let's now address your sources because I appreciate the effort, a true improvement from common carnivore diet followers who spew claims without actually citing any research all while contradicting common medical understanding, at the very least you had the decency to back up your claims.

FIRST SOURCE:
Aajonus Vonderplanitz is not a credible source. He is not a qualified nutritionist, and he has made some pretty crazy claims about his magical diet without showing a single shred of evidence for them, word of mouth =/= evidence. The fact that bacteria help digest food is true (thats mainly done by digestive enzymes anyway), but that does not give a free pass for all bacteria.

Regarding the comment on "bacteria digest dead cells and waste in the body," this is just wrong. Our bodies clear dead or damaged cells through macrophages and other immune cells. The only place where bacteria help "clean waste" is in the gut, they do not perform this function in our blood or tissues. Plus, do you actually think bacteria or parasites can differentiate or care about what's living and what isn't?

SECOND SOURCE: PMID: 24336217
This is where I question if you truly analyzed the studies you're citing. This study says nothing good about this bacteria. In fact, it openly states: "Increases in the abundance and activity of Bilophila wadsworthia on the animal-based diet support a link between dietary fat, bile acids and the outgrowth of microorganisms capable of triggering inflammatory bowel disease." This contradicts your point.

THIRD SOURCE: "Persistent Asymptomatic Human Infections by Salmonella enterica Serovar Newport in China"
Out of 290 strains analyzed, many adults and children suffered from diarrhea, with only a small minority being asymptomatic. The study says that non-pathogenic strains exist, but that doesn't negate the existence of harmful ones. The results actually make emphasis that harmful straints exist (EHEC, EPEC, Salmonella enterica) cause foodborne illness.

The study is about gut microbiota and dietary interventions reducing pathogen colonization, it isn't about pathogens being harmless. Your conclusion about E. Colli and Salmonella being good because some dudes in a study where asymptomatic is pretty funny, especially if we consider that the same study also says that most of the subjects got diarrhea.

Apparently, "if some strains of a pathogen don't cause issues, then surely none of them do!" that's a great conclusion...

FOURTH SOURCE: PMID: 35403275
This is just a general overview of the limitations and potential of human microbiome research, nowhere in the text does it suggest that eating raw meat is safe or advisable. "Microorganisms are beneficial" is true and is the general sentiment behind this paper, but this definition does NOT extend to all microorganisms.

OTHER SOURCES: PMID: 37239009 ; PMID: 31196177 ; and the other two
I won't give an answer to them because it would just be me repeating myself. These studies do not say that all microorganisms are safe, they speak about of gut health and microbiota diversity, but I'm sure that if you asked the publishers of this paper about it they would tell you that this doesn't mean that "everything entering your gut is good for you."

My comments
Honestly, I've said enough. You're fear-mongering about chemicals that have only shown harm in studies where rats were practically poisoned to death. If I wanted to play that game, I could bring up heme-iron in raw meat breaking down into N-nitroso compounds that can damage cells and cause cancer! But I won't, because I recognize the real-world impact is negligible, just like the compounds you're highlighting. Overdosing anything, even water, will cause harm. When we look at realistic human intake, the science often becomes inconclusive or contradictory, because the concerns just don't hold up.

I made some claims which I didn't really cite studies for, mainly because they're common knowledge (and because scrolling PubMed for studies, then actually reading them is a pain in the ass), but if you want me to I can expand upon them.
 
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Point 1:"Bacteria and parasites are our friends" No, parasites are not our friends they are active pathogens continually infesting your body.

Point 2:" Bacteria is necessary in the body in order to break down dead/decaying cells" Bacteria is NOT needed to digest our own dead/decaying cells, our body does that already on its own without bacteria.

Point 3: "Raw animal products carry benefical bactera" This is true, however, eating raw animals come with the risks mentioned before. Simply eat other probiotic foods that have the same impact and without the risks. (yogurt, kefir, etc). It's retarded to eat animal foods RAW for the simple and negligible impact on the microbiome when safer better alternatives exist.

Point 4: "Parasites are apart of natures cleanup crew by breaking down waste and regulating populations." Most parasites have co-evolved with their hosts which we didn't. The studies you're referring to were done in controlled exposure to the parasites. The studies are not meant to drive you retards into eating raw meat. "Boy oh Boy, I love eating raw animal meat with parasites I don't even know the name of! :feelsuhh:"


Point 1: "Presence of salmonella and e.coli in the body is common and not a sign of disease." Yes in some cases they are not indicative of disease, that is the exception not the rule. When consuming raw meat you are not ingesting one strain of salmonella, you are consuming hundreds maybe thousands (which in the case of salmonella is almost always indicative of disease). Sure there are good strains of ecoli but you're overlooking how only one strain is needed to get in to cause severe illness and death. Why do all of this when you can get better bacteria from cleaner sources at a fraction of the price without having to eat raw meat? Your argument is retarded and surface level at best.

Point 2: "Their presence in the body is common" Yes, these bacteria are incredibly common in sick individuals.

Study #1: "In particular, lesions from mice colonized with either E. coli ST129 or ST375 and treated with DSS were characterized by extensive epithelial ulceration, submucosal and mucosal edema, neutrophilic, and monocytic cell infiltration, gland hyperplasia and stromal collapse" Translation: Mice with ecoli strains exacerbated damage from gut inflammation and hindered recovery. Ecoli isn't a harmless bystander Instead, during gut inflammation, they actively contribute to intestinal damage, meaning they have disease causing potential. This study also only looked at 4 commensal e.coli strains. "Together, these results demonstrate that commensal E. coli populations have strain-specific, disease-causing potentials during intestinal inflammation." Commensal means where one organism benefits, while the other is neither harmed or benefited, but in this study it's clear to see these commensal e.coli strains actually can act as parasites under the right conditions. If anything this study proves the bacteria we thought did nothing actually cause damage. "In the current study, we found that randomly chosen, freshly isolated gut commensal E. coli strains displayed either a neutral effect on inflammation induced by DSS or they exacerbated inflammation, ultimately leading to overt disease."

Study #2:
Explicitly states that diarrhea was caused by the salmonella strains ingested "The analysis showed that the ST was a statistically significant (P = 0.0432) contributor to variation in clinical presentation." and it persisted for weeks. It also states new mutated strains developed in the infected individuals became MDR (Bacteria that are immune to multiple drugs, aka they are immune to anti-bacteria.) Meaning if your body lacks the ability to fight the bacteria off on it's own, you are fucked. The only thing this study does to support OPs arg is that it can boost your immune system because it's fighting an infectious disease. Made no claim that this was a "detoxification process" :lul: and provided proof of the contrary.

Study #3: The study has nothing to do with raw meat. It just compares the effects a plant-based and animal-based diets have on the gut microbiome. The food is obviously cooked not raw. Even with the cooking a animal based diet showed "high-fat diets lead to increased enteric deoxycholic concentrations (DCA); this secondary bile acid is the product of microbial metabolism and promotes liver cancer26." "Deoxycholic acid, a secondary bile acid known to promote DNA damage and hepatic carcinomas26, accumulates significantly on the animal-based diet (p<0.01, two-sided Wilcoxon signed-rank test;" I am not saying animal-based foods are bad but instead to show the inherit risks of an animal only diet, eating it raw only exacerbates the known risks of disease and death. Eat a balanced diet of plants and cooked foods to maximize your gut microbiome and staying healthy.

Study #4: Taken down or doesn't exist

Study #5: Taken down or doesn't exist

Study #6:
Same study as study #2 just published under PubMed.

(notice how the studies he used to support his claim out rightly disprove it or don't even talk about his claims? It's an indicator that OP didn't even bother to read through them, strip this gunks right to type in this forum)

Point 1: "Cooking kills the bacteria necessary to digest food and regenerate the body" Yes, heating your food will kill all the bacteria that aren't heat resistant, including the good ones along with the bad. Your body already has a developed microbiome from your parents and years of eating food that digests the food you eat. You don't need the bacteria found on food to digest it, that's just retarded. You do lose the good bacteria that could have joined forces with your existing microbiome but you also lose parasites, bad bacteria, and viruses.

Point 2: "Cooking denatures proteins, kills enzymes, and destroys beneficial bacteria necessary for digestion, detoxification and cellular repair without them, the rots in your gut" Yes, cooking denatures proteins. It is saving our body hell of a lot of energy from denaturing the proteins by itself. Denaturing proteins is not a bad thing you gunk :feelsuhh::ROFLMAO:. It is the denaturing of proteins that makes cooking very viable in terms of energy conservation and nutrient absorption because it makes it easier for the body to do so.

Enzymes found in raw food are not needed to digest the food or for anything! Most of the enzymes you will ingest from the raw animal you just ate get broken down instantly the moment they fall in your stomach. Your body also has these really cool organs that make enzymes to break down the food you eat (pancreas, stomach, intestines). You don't depend on food enzymes your body already makes its own.

People who ingest raw food are more at risk of "food rotting in your gut" because they ingest copious amounts of harmful bacteria that deregulated digestion and cause issues. People who suffer from "bloat, fermentation, and long term-tissue damage" are people with food intolerances who can't handle the food they are eating or are eating way too much fiber. The whole point of cooked food is that it's easier to digest.

Point 3: "When you cook food you lose b vitamins, along with others" Yes, you lose b vitamins, vitamin c, and reduce amino acid bioavailability (they also become denatured so it also increases bioavailability). That isn't a reason to eat food raw. You can get your b vitamins and c vitamins from veggies, diary, legumes, roots, and etc, same with vitamin c. Cooking does oxidize fats, however, you still get a significant source of the fats regardless if you cooked it. The fats in a steak don't magically oxidize when you cook it on a cast iron. The outside layer sure, but the interior is still full of unoxidized fats and nutrients that haven't broken down. (if you eat your steak well-done then that's on you). So in conclusion, you do lose b vitamins and c vitamins, but you can source these vitamins from a variety of different foods that taste better and don't come with the risks of eating raw animal foods. Yes some fats are oxidized as well but the majority of saturated fat stay untouched.

Study #1 My institution does not have access to this study

Study #2 Needs direct permission from authors to read (op used an abstract to supporting his arg :feelsuhh:)

Study #3
Showed us what we already knew, drop in vitamins due to cooking (Frying being the biggest loss and grilling having the highest retention rate). Should also make the note that this was done on very lean chicken breast not marbled beef or other sorts of meat that can hold the nutrients a-lot better. Here are the losses in nutrients from this study
Legend: AF = Air Frying
BK = Baking
DF = Deep Frying
GR = Grilling

View attachment 3802168
View attachment 3802172
View attachment 3802177View attachment 3802175View attachment 3802178View attachment 3802179View attachment 3802182
Now is eating raw meat and risking health complications really worth the negligible increase in minerals that you can source from alternate foods? If you're sub 70 IQ maybe it'd seem worth it.

Point 1: "Cooking creates toxic byproducts that the body cannot safely use and must detofixy, store in fat or wall of in tumors, cyst and inflammation." No, your body can safely get rid of these byproducts, in excess AGES can cause inflammation, oxidation, and chronic disease when consumed in excess (eating mcdonalds or steak every day) or in people with poor metabolisms and can't handle the added stress (think diabetes). Your body already deals with AGEs through enzyme breakdown, filtration using your kidneys, and cell renewal. So the AGES that do get stored in your cells eventually breakdown or get filtered out like the rest once your cells breakdown. The issue is we slowly begin to lose that ability as we age and then AGEs begin to accumulate. Cells that renew slowly will accumulate ages slowly, but this can be offset through a balanced diet and a healthy lifestyle. Finally, there is 0 scientific literature showing AGES as a major cause for alzheimers (too lazy to check the other 2 complications but I won't surprised if they have no relationship whatsoever)

Study #1: Doesn't even speak to any of the points made by op, a study about the microbiota and how it effects health. (did he even bother to read any of the studies he referenced??) Genuinely how does this study have anything to do with AGEs, HCAs, Effects of denatured proteins, and fats? The study emphasizes a varied and fiber rich diet all throughout and their impact on health.

The rest of this is all too retarded for me to take seriously and is just regurgitation of retarded tropes

Denaturing proteins does not Mutate them :lul:. Denatured proteins are not waste, they are not nutritionally empty, they are not stored in joints (First time I've heard this one), they don't cause stiffness, cause 0 of the symptoms u mentioned (Cooking your food actually helps with some of them),they are used for regeneration, and finally cooking your food makes the proteins easier to digest not harder.


TLDR/CONCLUSION
-OP is retarded
-wasted my time reading through all of these poorly cited and misused articles.
-I feel bad for the researchers having their work misinterpreted and used to support dogshit raw rhetoric by this retard .
-Modern food safety practices support human health.

By eating properly cooked foods and avoiding raw animal products, you protect yourself from infectious diseases with only minimal loss of nutrients, enzymes (which would be broken down during digestion anyway), and naturally occurring bacteria (which your gut already hosts in abundance). The sources OP cited (That weren't read by) actually support this point. Consuming raw meat can introduce harmful pathogens, compromise immune function, and disrupt the balance of your gut microbiome. It also increases the risk of viral and bacterial infections, especially in cases of injury or weakened immunity(Not to mention raw meat weakens immunity not strengthens). Any minor vitamin loss from cooking can be offset by eating a balanced diet that includes fermented foods, vegetables, and other nutrient-rich options that don't carry the risks that raw meat does.
Love you bro :heart:

We basically made the same points too lmao
 
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"Bacteria / Parasite Psyop"
This isn't a 'psyop', these threats are real and have proven deadly. For instance, the 2011 listeria outbreak linked to cantaloupes killed 33 people (cdc.gov/listeria/outbreaks/cantaloupes-jensen-farms). Listeria, can also be found in meat.

I quote: 'Most (58%) illnesses were caused by norovirus, followed by nontyphoidal Salmonella spp. (11%), Clostridium perfringens (10%), and Campylobacter spp. (9%). Leading causes of hospitalization were nontyphoidal Salmonella spp. (35%), norovirus (26%), Campylobacter spp. (15%), and Toxoplasma gondii (8%)' (pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21192848/). Cholera, which is mostly contracted from contaminated seafood or water, also continues to cause death around the world... (pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/14738797/).

You also speak about "harmful compounds created in cooking", but ignore that bacteria and parasites do the same thing. They cause immune responses because they damage cells and, most importantly, release toxic byproducts. For example, Clostridium botulinum produces a deadly neurotoxin, and Trichinella spiralis can invade and damage brain cells.

"What Bacteria Is And Its Importance"
This is your worst claim. You've made points about the gut microbiome's importance for longevity and health, and yes, a good gut microbiome is beneficial.

HOWEVER, the idea that 'bacteria and parasites are our friends' is just plain wrong. 'Bad bacteria' absolutely exist in food, E. coli is one of the most common! While many microorganisms are good for your gut, harmful strains like E. coli are NOT. So, how do you explain flesh-eating microorganisms? Are they our friends too? Should we just let them into our bodies? Hell no.


"Bad bacteria are not naturally occurring but are manmade laboratory strains."
This isn't an argument or a fact, it's a literal conspiracy theory. We've known about E. coli since the late 19th century. If you have any knowledge of the history of biology and genetic engineering, you'd know that back then, we barely understood what a bacteria was, let alone have the technology for genomic alteration. We still struggle to insert even a single gene into a microorganism. Do you understand the difficulty and astronomical cost of creating 'bad bacteria' in a lab, especially over 100 years ago?

Your point about antibiotic resistance in medicine is completely out of context. Yes, it's a growing medical concern that our abuse of antibiotics drives bacterial evolution helping resistant strains pass down their genes. But you're ignoring the fundamental reason we began using antibiotics in the first place. Microorganisms caused severe illness and death long before we even understood antibiotic resistance, we didn't start using antibiotics 'just because', it was to combat naturally occurring pathogens causing issues.

"Parasites are apart of natures cleanup crew"
Parasites are beneficial in only a few cases. If you become infected, your body will almost certainly have an immune response to eliminate them. Do you understand why this occurs? It's because parasites actively harm the host.

Using wild animals as a health guideline is also pretty dumb. Firstly, a wild animal usually lives to the age of, I don't know, 30 years? And often much less because they suffer from parasites, injuries, and chronic hunger. Secondly, many animals have mechanisms to combat parasites, whether through consuming specific anti-parasitic plants or forming symbiotic relationships with other creatures that remove them. This is proof that even in nature, parasites are often an issue and not a benefit.

Nature is optimized for survival, not for health or longevity. Contrast this with modern medical understanding, which has dramatically reduced mortality from diseases like smallpox by 100% and polio by 99, while raising the average human lifespan from approximately 30-40 in medieval ages (when parasites and bacteria were the real issue) to over 70-80 globally today.



"The Problem Of Sterilization, Cooking And Pasteurization"
Setting aside incongruent claims about 'food rotting in your stomach' which is based on... nothing, we can talk about food preparation. Yes, food safety techniques denature proteins, destroy some enzymes, and reduce certain beneficial bacteria. However, their primary and life-saving purpose is to eliminate harmful bacteria and parasites that pose a threat to human health.

It is also true that cooking can reduce water-soluble vitamin content. Yet, this destruction is only partial with a significant amount remaining, so the nutritional loss is never as severe as claimed by raw diet followers. Also, deficiencies in vitamins like B1, folate, or vitamin C are VERY rare in populations with varied diets because countless other foods contribute to meeting the RDI for these vitamins. So even with all their food cooked people will rarely be deficient in water-soluble vitamins, most deficiencies actually occur in fat-soluble ones, which aren't affected by cooking.

"Advanced Glycation End Products (AGEs) (TOXIC BYPRODUCT)"
It is true that Milliard reactions from AGEs in food, but it's an exaggeration to say that dietary AGEs are a concern. Your own metabolism generates AGEs endogenously, and these internal processes contribute far more to your total AGE levels than food ever will.

It's like the stupid argument that "milk consumption is bad due to its estrogen content" when the mere presence of an estrogen isn't necessarily bad when we consider the quantity and bioavailability. Research shows that the estrogen in a glass of milk has negligible effects on hormone levels, you have to consume unholy amounts of milk to get a 1% change in your estrogen. Just like this dietary AGEs are not absorbed in biologically significant amounts to change systemic AGE levels.

Also, the relationship between AGEs and disease is correlational, not of direct causation. I quote:
"Direct causation hasn’t been firmly established, and it’s unclear whether moderate intake of dietary AGEs in the context of an otherwise healthy diet is a meaningful independent risk factor for chronic disease."

"Heterocyclic Amines (HCAs) (TOXIC BYPRODUCT)"
You're correct that HCAs are formed when muscle meat is cooked at high temperatures, and the National Cancer Institute (NCI) acknowledges that they're an issue. Here's the issue though, most studies linking HCAs to cancer are in rodents fed unrealistically high doses and epidemiological studies in humans show weak correlations between well-done meat and cancer risk.

In any case, no health guidance suggests consuming charred meat. Moderation and varied cooking methods are important here...

I'd love to cite research about it but I just couldn't lol. Some papers say "Yeah, it causes cancer" but then not even a paragraph later say "it was difficult to account for individual lifestyle and that it is true that individual with lower HCA also tend to generally live healthier lives, exercise, etc." And studies that claimed HCA was not of primary concern were not that convincing to me. HCA is a carcinogen, that's true, but the degree to where that's an issue is probably very small given the very inconsistent evidence, but then again, no one is suggesting you eat charred meat.

"Acrylamide"
This is a non-issue just like the other two, the dose makes the poison. Exceedingly high doses of certain chemicals can cause effects in rodents but this is irrelevant in conservative quantities humans consume through their diet.

Coffee is literally charred beans and is high in acrylamide which as you said has been classified as a probable human carcinogen by the IARC (based largely on animal studies). But despite its acrylamide content research consistently links moderate coffee consumption to a reduced risk of various diseases, including heart disease, Parkinson's, and certain cancers. Coffee has a wide array of benefitial compounds (like antioxidants) which can improve health outcomes, overriding the potential negative effects of a single chemical in low concentrations.

"Lipid Peroxides and Trans Fats"
We agree on this, oxidized lipids are harmful, and I also avoid cooking with highly polyunsaturated vegetable oils and limit high-PUFA meats.

However, the key distinction is that under normal cooking conditions, with appropriate fats and temperatures, these harmful compounds are not produced. If you're not cooking with certain fats, and not reusing them, this isn't an issue for you.

"Denatured Proteins"
This point isn't supported by any research.

1. 'Cooking proteins mutates them.' This is just me being pedantic, I get what you meant, but it's always good to make corrections. Cooking causes proteins to denature which unfolds them and breaks their 3d structure, but it doesn't mutate them. Mutation is a change in genetic material.
2. 'These damaged proteins cannot be used by the body and become waste or inflammatory triggers.' This is completely false. Cooked proteins are broken down into amino acids by our digestive system, just like raw proteins. In fact, studies show that cooking significantly improves protein digestibility and bioavailability (PMID: 23593443/PMID: 33375299). Our bodies utilize individual amino acids, not whole protein structures. Also I found ZERO evidence to suggest that cooking makes them inflammatory.
3. 'Cooked proteins are nutritionally empty and harmful, building up in joints and tissues causing pain and stiffness.' This is just a baseless claim. No evidence on it at all.

Your sources
Let's now address your sources because I appreciate the effort, a true improvement from common carnivore diet followers who spew claims without actually citing any research all while contradicting common medical understanding, at the very least you had the decency to back up your claims.

FIRST SOURCE:
Aajonus Vonderplanitz is not a credible source. He is not a qualified nutritionist, and he has made some pretty crazy claims about his magical diet without showing a single shred of evidence for them, word of mouth =/= evidence. The fact that bacteria help digest food is true (thats mainly done by digestive enzymes anyway), but that does not give a free pass for all bacteria.

Regarding the comment on "bacteria digest dead cells and waste in the body," this is just wrong. Our bodies clear dead or damaged cells through macrophages and other immune cells. The only place where bacteria help "clean waste" is in the gut, they do not perform this function in our blood or tissues. Plus, do you actually think bacteria or parasites can differentiate or care about what's living and what isn't?

SECOND SOURCE: PMID: 24336217
This is where I question if you truly analyzed the studies you're citing. This study says nothing good about this bacteria. In fact, it openly states: "Increases in the abundance and activity of Bilophila wadsworthia on the animal-based diet support a link between dietary fat, bile acids and the outgrowth of microorganisms capable of triggering inflammatory bowel disease." This contradicts your point.

THIRD SOURCE: "Persistent Asymptomatic Human Infections by Salmonella enterica Serovar Newport in China"
Out of 290 strains analyzed, many adults and children suffered from diarrhea, with only a small minority being asymptomatic. The study says that non-pathogenic strains exist, but that doesn't negate the existence of harmful ones. The results actually make emphasis that harmful straints exist (EHEC, EPEC, Salmonella enterica) cause foodborne illness.

The study is about gut microbiota and dietary interventions reducing pathogen colonization, it isn't about pathogens being harmless. Your conclusion about E. Colli and Salmonella being good because some dudes in a study where asymptomatic is pretty funny, especially if we consider that the same study also says that most of the subjects got diarrhea.

Apparently, "if some strains of a pathogen don't cause issues, then surely none of them do!" that's a great conclusion...

FOURTH SOURCE: PMID: 35403275
This is just a general overview of the limitations and potential of human microbiome research, nowhere in the text does it suggest that eating raw meat is safe or advisable. "Microorganisms are beneficial" is true and is the general sentiment behind this paper, but this definition does NOT extend to all microorganisms.

OTHER SOURCES: PMID: 37239009 ; PMID: 31196177 ; and the other two
I won't give an answer to them because it would just be me repeating myself. These studies do not say that all microorganisms are safe, they speak about of gut health and microbiota diversity, but I'm sure that if you asked the publishers of this paper about it they would tell you that this doesn't mean that "everything entering your gut is good for you."

My comments
Honestly, I've said enough. You're fear-mongering about chemicals that have only shown harm in studies where rats were practically poisoned to death. If I wanted to play that game, I could bring up heme-iron in raw meat breaking down into N-nitroso compounds that can damage cells and cause cancer! But I won't, because I recognize the real-world impact is negligible, just like the compounds you're highlighting. Overdosing anything, even water, will cause harm. When we look at realistic human intake, the science often becomes inconclusive or contradictory, because the concerns just don't hold up.

I made some claims which I didn't really cite studies for, mainly because they're common knowledge (and because scrolling PubMed for studies, then actually reading them is a pain in the ass), but if you want me to I can expand upon them.

holy moly how long did this take you
 
I May be wrong, but raw meat and low rare meat have the same characteristics, and also, our body doesnt absorv as many nutrientes with raw meat as it does with cooked
Your first point has no real argument

your second point is not true, beneficial bacteria are essential for breaking down damaged cells and recycling waste, if you dont have enough bacteria toxins will build up which leads to fermentation, putrefaction and disease


(None of these studies are made in the context of supporting raw meat)

Third point. Raw meat, organs and raw dairy provide different species-specific naturally occuring bacteria and food specific enzymes not found in foods like yogurt or kefir,

theres bacteria naturally present on raw meat that help breaking down the proteins and fats, producing metabolites not found in dairy fermentation


Point 4. I never claimed these studies specifically tell you to eat raw meat




Point 1: the bodys microbiome is incomplete without exposure to diverse live bacteria from food, cooking sterilizes this vital input, weakening digestion and regeneration, raw and fermented foods supply essential enzymes and microbes that modern diets lack, and this loss is a root cause of many chronic diseases.

Point 2. Denaturing isnt just a simple energy saving shortcut, you literally destroy the 3D structures of proteins, enzymes and cofactors that are essential for proper digestion and cellular repair, this causes toxic byproducts that your body then must work harder to detoxify, burning more energy than it "saves". Your bodys own enzymes have evolved alongside consuming raw and living tissues, not burnt food, enzymes on raw meat and raw dairy start digestion externally, reducing the digestive burden on your pancreas and gut lining, when you eat cooked food you force your body to produce more digestive enzymes and detox pathways to handle the damage.

Point 3. No point in responding to this since the points before are the answers

Point 4. Yes, your body does TRY to safely get rid of AGEs and other toxic byproducts, because your body is trying to detoxify, but if you constantly feed it a cooked heat damaged diet, you overwhelm the system overtime, its about chronic ev ryday exposure. The accumulation of AGEs is linked to inflammation, oxidative stress and accelerated aging, and other things i named

All the risks for raw meat only come from dirty sources, you will never get sick eating raw meat from a healthy animal, blame modern food processing

all the studies i linked worked for me when i pasted them, maybe i accidentally deleted some letters by accident because i obviously open the links myself before, ill go check now though
 
"Bacteria / Parasite Psyop"
This isn't a 'psyop', these threats are real and have proven deadly. For instance, the 2011 listeria outbreak linked to cantaloupes killed 33 people (cdc.gov/listeria/outbreaks/cantaloupes-jensen-farms). Listeria, can also be found in meat.

I quote: 'Most (58%) illnesses were caused by norovirus, followed by nontyphoidal Salmonella spp. (11%), Clostridium perfringens (10%), and Campylobacter spp. (9%). Leading causes of hospitalization were nontyphoidal Salmonella spp. (35%), norovirus (26%), Campylobacter spp. (15%), and Toxoplasma gondii (8%)' (pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21192848/). Cholera, which is mostly contracted from contaminated seafood or water, also continues to cause death around the world... (pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/14738797/).

You also speak about "harmful compounds created in cooking", but ignore that bacteria and parasites do the same thing. They cause immune responses because they damage cells and, most importantly, release toxic byproducts. For example, Clostridium botulinum produces a deadly neurotoxin, and Trichinella spiralis can invade and damage brain cells.

"What Bacteria Is And Its Importance"
This is your worst claim. You've made points about the gut microbiome's importance for longevity and health, and yes, a good gut microbiome is beneficial.

HOWEVER, the idea that 'bacteria and parasites are our friends' is just plain wrong. 'Bad bacteria' absolutely exist in food, E. coli is one of the most common! While many microorganisms are good for your gut, harmful strains like E. coli are NOT. So, how do you explain flesh-eating microorganisms? Are they our friends too? Should we just let them into our bodies? Hell no.


"Bad bacteria are not naturally occurring but are manmade laboratory strains."
This isn't an argument or a fact, it's a literal conspiracy theory. We've known about E. coli since the late 19th century. If you have any knowledge of the history of biology and genetic engineering, you'd know that back then, we barely understood what a bacteria was, let alone have the technology for genomic alteration. We still struggle to insert even a single gene into a microorganism. Do you understand the difficulty and astronomical cost of creating 'bad bacteria' in a lab, especially over 100 years ago?

Your point about antibiotic resistance in medicine is completely out of context. Yes, it's a growing medical concern that our abuse of antibiotics drives bacterial evolution helping resistant strains pass down their genes. But you're ignoring the fundamental reason we began using antibiotics in the first place. Microorganisms caused severe illness and death long before we even understood antibiotic resistance, we didn't start using antibiotics 'just because', it was to combat naturally occurring pathogens causing issues.

"Parasites are apart of natures cleanup crew"
Parasites are beneficial in only a few cases. If you become infected, your body will almost certainly have an immune response to eliminate them. Do you understand why this occurs? It's because parasites actively harm the host.

Using wild animals as a health guideline is also pretty dumb. Firstly, a wild animal usually lives to the age of, I don't know, 30 years? And often much less because they suffer from parasites, injuries, and chronic hunger. Secondly, many animals have mechanisms to combat parasites, whether through consuming specific anti-parasitic plants or forming symbiotic relationships with other creatures that remove them. This is proof that even in nature, parasites are often an issue and not a benefit.

Nature is optimized for survival, not for health or longevity. Contrast this with modern medical understanding, which has dramatically reduced mortality from diseases like smallpox by 100% and polio by 99, while raising the average human lifespan from approximately 30-40 in medieval ages (when parasites and bacteria were the real issue) to over 70-80 globally today.



"The Problem Of Sterilization, Cooking And Pasteurization"
Setting aside incongruent claims about 'food rotting in your stomach' which is based on... nothing, we can talk about food preparation. Yes, food safety techniques denature proteins, destroy some enzymes, and reduce certain beneficial bacteria. However, their primary and life-saving purpose is to eliminate harmful bacteria and parasites that pose a threat to human health.

It is also true that cooking can reduce water-soluble vitamin content. Yet, this destruction is only partial with a significant amount remaining, so the nutritional loss is never as severe as claimed by raw diet followers. Also, deficiencies in vitamins like B1, folate, or vitamin C are VERY rare in populations with varied diets because countless other foods contribute to meeting the RDI for these vitamins. So even with all their food cooked people will rarely be deficient in water-soluble vitamins, most deficiencies actually occur in fat-soluble ones, which aren't affected by cooking.

"Advanced Glycation End Products (AGEs) (TOXIC BYPRODUCT)"
It is true that Milliard reactions from AGEs in food, but it's an exaggeration to say that dietary AGEs are a concern. Your own metabolism generates AGEs endogenously, and these internal processes contribute far more to your total AGE levels than food ever will.

It's like the stupid argument that "milk consumption is bad due to its estrogen content" when the mere presence of an estrogen isn't necessarily bad when we consider the quantity and bioavailability. Research shows that the estrogen in a glass of milk has negligible effects on hormone levels, you have to consume unholy amounts of milk to get a 1% change in your estrogen. Just like this dietary AGEs are not absorbed in biologically significant amounts to change systemic AGE levels.

Also, the relationship between AGEs and disease is correlational, not of direct causation. I quote:
"Direct causation hasn’t been firmly established, and it’s unclear whether moderate intake of dietary AGEs in the context of an otherwise healthy diet is a meaningful independent risk factor for chronic disease."

"Heterocyclic Amines (HCAs) (TOXIC BYPRODUCT)"
You're correct that HCAs are formed when muscle meat is cooked at high temperatures, and the National Cancer Institute (NCI) acknowledges that they're an issue. Here's the issue though, most studies linking HCAs to cancer are in rodents fed unrealistically high doses and epidemiological studies in humans show weak correlations between well-done meat and cancer risk.

In any case, no health guidance suggests consuming charred meat. Moderation and varied cooking methods are important here...

I'd love to cite research about it but I just couldn't lol. Some papers say "Yeah, it causes cancer" but then not even a paragraph later say "it was difficult to account for individual lifestyle and that it is true that individual with lower HCA also tend to generally live healthier lives, exercise, etc." And studies that claimed HCA was not of primary concern were not that convincing to me. HCA is a carcinogen, that's true, but the degree to where that's an issue is probably very small given the very inconsistent evidence, but then again, no one is suggesting you eat charred meat.

"Acrylamide"
This is a non-issue just like the other two, the dose makes the poison. Exceedingly high doses of certain chemicals can cause effects in rodents but this is irrelevant in conservative quantities humans consume through their diet.

Coffee is literally charred beans and is high in acrylamide which as you said has been classified as a probable human carcinogen by the IARC (based largely on animal studies). But despite its acrylamide content research consistently links moderate coffee consumption to a reduced risk of various diseases, including heart disease, Parkinson's, and certain cancers. Coffee has a wide array of benefitial compounds (like antioxidants) which can improve health outcomes, overriding the potential negative effects of a single chemical in low concentrations.

"Lipid Peroxides and Trans Fats"
We agree on this, oxidized lipids are harmful, and I also avoid cooking with highly polyunsaturated vegetable oils and limit high-PUFA meats.

However, the key distinction is that under normal cooking conditions, with appropriate fats and temperatures, these harmful compounds are not produced. If you're not cooking with certain fats, and not reusing them, this isn't an issue for you.

"Denatured Proteins"
This point isn't supported by any research.

1. 'Cooking proteins mutates them.' This is just me being pedantic, I get what you meant, but it's always good to make corrections. Cooking causes proteins to denature which unfolds them and breaks their 3d structure, but it doesn't mutate them. Mutation is a change in genetic material.
2. 'These damaged proteins cannot be used by the body and become waste or inflammatory triggers.' This is completely false. Cooked proteins are broken down into amino acids by our digestive system, just like raw proteins. In fact, studies show that cooking significantly improves protein digestibility and bioavailability (PMID: 23593443/PMID: 33375299). Our bodies utilize individual amino acids, not whole protein structures. Also I found ZERO evidence to suggest that cooking makes them inflammatory.
3. 'Cooked proteins are nutritionally empty and harmful, building up in joints and tissues causing pain and stiffness.' This is just a baseless claim. No evidence on it at all.

Your sources
Let's now address your sources because I appreciate the effort, a true improvement from common carnivore diet followers who spew claims without actually citing any research all while contradicting common medical understanding, at the very least you had the decency to back up your claims.

FIRST SOURCE:
Aajonus Vonderplanitz is not a credible source. He is not a qualified nutritionist, and he has made some pretty crazy claims about his magical diet without showing a single shred of evidence for them, word of mouth =/= evidence. The fact that bacteria help digest food is true (thats mainly done by digestive enzymes anyway), but that does not give a free pass for all bacteria.

Regarding the comment on "bacteria digest dead cells and waste in the body," this is just wrong. Our bodies clear dead or damaged cells through macrophages and other immune cells. The only place where bacteria help "clean waste" is in the gut, they do not perform this function in our blood or tissues. Plus, do you actually think bacteria or parasites can differentiate or care about what's living and what isn't?

SECOND SOURCE: PMID: 24336217
This is where I question if you truly analyzed the studies you're citing. This study says nothing good about this bacteria. In fact, it openly states: "Increases in the abundance and activity of Bilophila wadsworthia on the animal-based diet support a link between dietary fat, bile acids and the outgrowth of microorganisms capable of triggering inflammatory bowel disease." This contradicts your point.

THIRD SOURCE: "Persistent Asymptomatic Human Infections by Salmonella enterica Serovar Newport in China"
Out of 290 strains analyzed, many adults and children suffered from diarrhea, with only a small minority being asymptomatic. The study says that non-pathogenic strains exist, but that doesn't negate the existence of harmful ones. The results actually make emphasis that harmful straints exist (EHEC, EPEC, Salmonella enterica) cause foodborne illness.

The study is about gut microbiota and dietary interventions reducing pathogen colonization, it isn't about pathogens being harmless. Your conclusion about E. Colli and Salmonella being good because some dudes in a study where asymptomatic is pretty funny, especially if we consider that the same study also says that most of the subjects got diarrhea.

Apparently, "if some strains of a pathogen don't cause issues, then surely none of them do!" that's a great conclusion...

FOURTH SOURCE: PMID: 35403275
This is just a general overview of the limitations and potential of human microbiome research, nowhere in the text does it suggest that eating raw meat is safe or advisable. "Microorganisms are beneficial" is true and is the general sentiment behind this paper, but this definition does NOT extend to all microorganisms.

OTHER SOURCES: PMID: 37239009 ; PMID: 31196177 ; and the other two
I won't give an answer to them because it would just be me repeating myself. These studies do not say that all microorganisms are safe, they speak about of gut health and microbiota diversity, but I'm sure that if you asked the publishers of this paper about it they would tell you that this doesn't mean that "everything entering your gut is good for you."

My comments
Honestly, I've said enough. You're fear-mongering about chemicals that have only shown harm in studies where rats were practically poisoned to death. If I wanted to play that game, I could bring up heme-iron in raw meat breaking down into N-nitroso compounds that can damage cells and cause cancer! But I won't, because I recognize the real-world impact is negligible, just like the compounds you're highlighting. Overdosing anything, even water, will cause harm. When we look at realistic human intake, the science often becomes inconclusive or contradictory, because the concerns just don't hold up.

I made some claims which I didn't really cite studies for, mainly because they're common knowledge (and because scrolling PubMed for studies, then actually reading them is a pain in the ass), but if you want me to I can expand upon them.

do i need to respond to all this or did i already just respond to most of the points
 
holy moly how long did this take you
More than I should have spent on it honestly, I actually have an test tomorrow and see where I'm wasting my time lmao, I'll pass anyway, but I should probably go study.
 
"Bacteria / Parasite Psyop"
This isn't a 'psyop', these threats are real and have proven deadly. For instance, the 2011 listeria outbreak linked to cantaloupes killed 33 people (cdc.gov/listeria/outbreaks/cantaloupes-jensen-farms). Listeria, can also be found in meat.

I quote: 'Most (58%) illnesses were caused by norovirus, followed by nontyphoidal Salmonella spp. (11%), Clostridium perfringens (10%), and Campylobacter spp. (9%). Leading causes of hospitalization were nontyphoidal Salmonella spp. (35%), norovirus (26%), Campylobacter spp. (15%), and Toxoplasma gondii (8%)' (pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21192848/). Cholera, which is mostly contracted from contaminated seafood or water, also continues to cause death around the world... (pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/14738797/).

You also speak about "harmful compounds created in cooking", but ignore that bacteria and parasites do the same thing. They cause immune responses because they damage cells and, most importantly, release toxic byproducts. For example, Clostridium botulinum produces a deadly neurotoxin, and Trichinella spiralis can invade and damage brain cells.

"What Bacteria Is And Its Importance"
This is your worst claim. You've made points about the gut microbiome's importance for longevity and health, and yes, a good gut microbiome is beneficial.

HOWEVER, the idea that 'bacteria and parasites are our friends' is just plain wrong. 'Bad bacteria' absolutely exist in food, E. coli is one of the most common! While many microorganisms are good for your gut, harmful strains like E. coli are NOT. So, how do you explain flesh-eating microorganisms? Are they our friends too? Should we just let them into our bodies? Hell no.


"Bad bacteria are not naturally occurring but are manmade laboratory strains."
This isn't an argument or a fact, it's a literal conspiracy theory. We've known about E. coli since the late 19th century. If you have any knowledge of the history of biology and genetic engineering, you'd know that back then, we barely understood what a bacteria was, let alone have the technology for genomic alteration. We still struggle to insert even a single gene into a microorganism. Do you understand the difficulty and astronomical cost of creating 'bad bacteria' in a lab, especially over 100 years ago?

Your point about antibiotic resistance in medicine is completely out of context. Yes, it's a growing medical concern that our abuse of antibiotics drives bacterial evolution helping resistant strains pass down their genes. But you're ignoring the fundamental reason we began using antibiotics in the first place. Microorganisms caused severe illness and death long before we even understood antibiotic resistance, we didn't start using antibiotics 'just because', it was to combat naturally occurring pathogens causing issues.

"Parasites are apart of natures cleanup crew"
Parasites are beneficial in only a few cases. If you become infected, your body will almost certainly have an immune response to eliminate them. Do you understand why this occurs? It's because parasites actively harm the host.

Using wild animals as a health guideline is also pretty dumb. Firstly, a wild animal usually lives to the age of, I don't know, 30 years? And often much less because they suffer from parasites, injuries, and chronic hunger. Secondly, many animals have mechanisms to combat parasites, whether through consuming specific anti-parasitic plants or forming symbiotic relationships with other creatures that remove them. This is proof that even in nature, parasites are often an issue and not a benefit.

Nature is optimized for survival, not for health or longevity. Contrast this with modern medical understanding, which has dramatically reduced mortality from diseases like smallpox by 100% and polio by 99, while raising the average human lifespan from approximately 30-40 in medieval ages (when parasites and bacteria were the real issue) to over 70-80 globally today.



"The Problem Of Sterilization, Cooking And Pasteurization"
Setting aside incongruent claims about 'food rotting in your stomach' which is based on... nothing, we can talk about food preparation. Yes, food safety techniques denature proteins, destroy some enzymes, and reduce certain beneficial bacteria. However, their primary and life-saving purpose is to eliminate harmful bacteria and parasites that pose a threat to human health.

It is also true that cooking can reduce water-soluble vitamin content. Yet, this destruction is only partial with a significant amount remaining, so the nutritional loss is never as severe as claimed by raw diet followers. Also, deficiencies in vitamins like B1, folate, or vitamin C are VERY rare in populations with varied diets because countless other foods contribute to meeting the RDI for these vitamins. So even with all their food cooked people will rarely be deficient in water-soluble vitamins, most deficiencies actually occur in fat-soluble ones, which aren't affected by cooking.

"Advanced Glycation End Products (AGEs) (TOXIC BYPRODUCT)"
It is true that Milliard reactions from AGEs in food, but it's an exaggeration to say that dietary AGEs are a concern. Your own metabolism generates AGEs endogenously, and these internal processes contribute far more to your total AGE levels than food ever will.

It's like the stupid argument that "milk consumption is bad due to its estrogen content" when the mere presence of an estrogen isn't necessarily bad when we consider the quantity and bioavailability. Research shows that the estrogen in a glass of milk has negligible effects on hormone levels, you have to consume unholy amounts of milk to get a 1% change in your estrogen. Just like this dietary AGEs are not absorbed in biologically significant amounts to change systemic AGE levels.

Also, the relationship between AGEs and disease is correlational, not of direct causation. I quote:
"Direct causation hasn’t been firmly established, and it’s unclear whether moderate intake of dietary AGEs in the context of an otherwise healthy diet is a meaningful independent risk factor for chronic disease."

"Heterocyclic Amines (HCAs) (TOXIC BYPRODUCT)"
You're correct that HCAs are formed when muscle meat is cooked at high temperatures, and the National Cancer Institute (NCI) acknowledges that they're an issue. Here's the issue though, most studies linking HCAs to cancer are in rodents fed unrealistically high doses and epidemiological studies in humans show weak correlations between well-done meat and cancer risk.

In any case, no health guidance suggests consuming charred meat. Moderation and varied cooking methods are important here...

I'd love to cite research about it but I just couldn't lol. Some papers say "Yeah, it causes cancer" but then not even a paragraph later say "it was difficult to account for individual lifestyle and that it is true that individual with lower HCA also tend to generally live healthier lives, exercise, etc." And studies that claimed HCA was not of primary concern were not that convincing to me. HCA is a carcinogen, that's true, but the degree to where that's an issue is probably very small given the very inconsistent evidence, but then again, no one is suggesting you eat charred meat.

"Acrylamide"
This is a non-issue just like the other two, the dose makes the poison. Exceedingly high doses of certain chemicals can cause effects in rodents but this is irrelevant in conservative quantities humans consume through their diet.

Coffee is literally charred beans and is high in acrylamide which as you said has been classified as a probable human carcinogen by the IARC (based largely on animal studies). But despite its acrylamide content research consistently links moderate coffee consumption to a reduced risk of various diseases, including heart disease, Parkinson's, and certain cancers. Coffee has a wide array of benefitial compounds (like antioxidants) which can improve health outcomes, overriding the potential negative effects of a single chemical in low concentrations.

"Lipid Peroxides and Trans Fats"
We agree on this, oxidized lipids are harmful, and I also avoid cooking with highly polyunsaturated vegetable oils and limit high-PUFA meats.

However, the key distinction is that under normal cooking conditions, with appropriate fats and temperatures, these harmful compounds are not produced. If you're not cooking with certain fats, and not reusing them, this isn't an issue for you.

"Denatured Proteins"
This point isn't supported by any research.

1. 'Cooking proteins mutates them.' This is just me being pedantic, I get what you meant, but it's always good to make corrections. Cooking causes proteins to denature which unfolds them and breaks their 3d structure, but it doesn't mutate them. Mutation is a change in genetic material.
2. 'These damaged proteins cannot be used by the body and become waste or inflammatory triggers.' This is completely false. Cooked proteins are broken down into amino acids by our digestive system, just like raw proteins. In fact, studies show that cooking significantly improves protein digestibility and bioavailability (PMID: 23593443/PMID: 33375299). Our bodies utilize individual amino acids, not whole protein structures. Also I found ZERO evidence to suggest that cooking makes them inflammatory.
3. 'Cooked proteins are nutritionally empty and harmful, building up in joints and tissues causing pain and stiffness.' This is just a baseless claim. No evidence on it at all.

Your sources
Let's now address your sources because I appreciate the effort, a true improvement from common carnivore diet followers who spew claims without actually citing any research all while contradicting common medical understanding, at the very least you had the decency to back up your claims.

FIRST SOURCE:
Aajonus Vonderplanitz is not a credible source. He is not a qualified nutritionist, and he has made some pretty crazy claims about his magical diet without showing a single shred of evidence for them, word of mouth =/= evidence. The fact that bacteria help digest food is true (thats mainly done by digestive enzymes anyway), but that does not give a free pass for all bacteria.

Regarding the comment on "bacteria digest dead cells and waste in the body," this is just wrong. Our bodies clear dead or damaged cells through macrophages and other immune cells. The only place where bacteria help "clean waste" is in the gut, they do not perform this function in our blood or tissues. Plus, do you actually think bacteria or parasites can differentiate or care about what's living and what isn't?

SECOND SOURCE: PMID: 24336217
This is where I question if you truly analyzed the studies you're citing. This study says nothing good about this bacteria. In fact, it openly states: "Increases in the abundance and activity of Bilophila wadsworthia on the animal-based diet support a link between dietary fat, bile acids and the outgrowth of microorganisms capable of triggering inflammatory bowel disease." This contradicts your point.

THIRD SOURCE: "Persistent Asymptomatic Human Infections by Salmonella enterica Serovar Newport in China"
Out of 290 strains analyzed, many adults and children suffered from diarrhea, with only a small minority being asymptomatic. The study says that non-pathogenic strains exist, but that doesn't negate the existence of harmful ones. The results actually make emphasis that harmful straints exist (EHEC, EPEC, Salmonella enterica) cause foodborne illness.

The study is about gut microbiota and dietary interventions reducing pathogen colonization, it isn't about pathogens being harmless. Your conclusion about E. Colli and Salmonella being good because some dudes in a study where asymptomatic is pretty funny, especially if we consider that the same study also says that most of the subjects got diarrhea.

Apparently, "if some strains of a pathogen don't cause issues, then surely none of them do!" that's a great conclusion...

FOURTH SOURCE: PMID: 35403275
This is just a general overview of the limitations and potential of human microbiome research, nowhere in the text does it suggest that eating raw meat is safe or advisable. "Microorganisms are beneficial" is true and is the general sentiment behind this paper, but this definition does NOT extend to all microorganisms.

OTHER SOURCES: PMID: 37239009 ; PMID: 31196177 ; and the other two
I won't give an answer to them because it would just be me repeating myself. These studies do not say that all microorganisms are safe, they speak about of gut health and microbiota diversity, but I'm sure that if you asked the publishers of this paper about it they would tell you that this doesn't mean that "everything entering your gut is good for you."

My comments
Honestly, I've said enough. You're fear-mongering about chemicals that have only shown harm in studies where rats were practically poisoned to death. If I wanted to play that game, I could bring up heme-iron in raw meat breaking down into N-nitroso compounds that can damage cells and cause cancer! But I won't, because I recognize the real-world impact is negligible, just like the compounds you're highlighting. Overdosing anything, even water, will cause harm. When we look at realistic human intake, the science often becomes inconclusive or contradictory, because the concerns just don't hold up.

I made some claims which I didn't really cite studies for, mainly because they're common knowledge (and because scrolling PubMed for studies, then actually reading them is a pain in the ass), but if you want me to I can expand upon them.

Can i just ask you what you think of the fact that aajoonus ate literal rotten food and didnt get sick?
 
More than I should have spent on it honestly, I actually have an test tomorrow and see where I'm wasting my time lmao, I'll pass anyway, but I should probably go study.
i guess i am to blame for this haha
1749157794462
 
  • JFL
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Can i just ask you what you think of the fact that aajoonus ate literal rotten food and didnt get sick?
I think he's very lucky he didn't die. Eating raw food is basically playing Russian Roulette, a lot of people eat raw egg yolks every morning with no issues, and a lot of people die every year because of salmonella poisoning. I'd rather not risk the statistical risk of ending in the last group, cooking your food has no issues, and eating it raw has no relevant benefits.
 
I think he's very lucky he didn't die. Eating raw food is basically playing Russian Roulette, a lot of people eat raw egg yolks every morning with no issues, and a lot of people die every year because of salmonella poisoning. I'd rather not risk the statistical risk of ending in the last group, cooking your food has no issues, and eating it raw has no relevant benefits.
how does it have no relevant benefits if i named so many
 
Can i just ask you what you think of the fact that aajoonus ate literal rotten food and didnt get sick?
Best example is Goatis he ate very old rotten meat and milk like 4 times a Week that’s what he said
 
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