Really dont know what to do (surgery plan)

[Skry]

I'm lost. I have a really bad lower third, with uneven weak jaw, and even weaker chin. This isn't a matter of looking attractive right now. I just want to look normal. First off I could just get a genioplasty and that alone would be huge for me, but it's just not enough IMO.

Everyone told me get bimax but it's not so simple, my teeth and jaws are not like most people who need bimax. I have ridiculous bimaxillary protrusion (teeth pointing out) and my bite is already lined up (although edge to edge bite). So I can't just move my jaws forward it'd ruin my bite and look ridiculous.

So first of all I had consultation with Ramieri and he said to remove premolars on lower teeth, then braces to pull back lower teeth, this will create overjet in my bite, then that means theres room to bring lower jaw forward and he will do bimax surgery. I mean Idk what to do that sounds really cringe to have uneven teeth and my upper back molars will just be hanging over nothing for the rest of my life. And my bite will still be fucked, my upper teeth still angled like shit.

Meanwhile my ortho that I asked if he would do ramieri's plan. Thinks its retarded, and his idea is to remove premolars BOTH upper and lower, retract teeth with braces, then get genio and no jaw surgery. Well of course an ortho doesnt support jaw surgery. But it's very conflicting because I have been fucked by braces when I was young so I never wanted to trust retractive orthodontics ever again.

Am I overthinking this or what. I'm gonna talk to more surgeons if I can. Does anyone have advice, please?

Also my ortho says my palates are not narrow he said they are good (I asked if I should get MSE), is this true???? Check pics

I really dislike my face and honestly I couldn't even morph it into something good if I tried. Something is just structurally really off

 

[5.5psl]

I usually consider bimax as cope
But in your scenario even that feels to be short .
Bimax+genio+implants to look human tbh .
Your 4th pic is beyond human looking , moneymax and fix face asap .

 

[Skry]

I usually consider bimax as cope
But in your scenario even that feels to be short .
Bimax+genio+implants to look human tbh .
Your 4th pic is beyond human looking , moneymax and fix face asap .

I need a good plan. I'm already grinding hard to get the funds together, but this process is going to take years regardless, years of dental/ortho work, then long process of recovery and even more orthodontics, then fixing the end result. But even now I don't know what is the best solution to my problem. Most bimax before and after is just some guy with a super big overbite getting their lower jaw moved forward and upper jaw rotated to fix their nose and then they look 100x better. But I'm realizing that most people aren't like that. Imagine if you did that on my skull, my bite would be utterly annihilated and I wouldn't be able to chew anymore even after a decade of braces

 

[Deleted member 24002]

Nah ive seen your real side profile and youre tilting away and biting down to make your side profile worse jfl. Bimax and genio would def be enough for you. Tbh bro I feel you with the bite part, not everyone is a bimax candidate based off bite alone. I think Alfaro has a whole lecture on this subject. Maybe a try a good 10-12mm genio (which is a lot of movement) and if you still look recessed then reevaluate options. Send a pic of your real side profile bro, dont tilt your head any direction and have your mouth how you usually would.

 

[Deleted member 24002]

also from the scan you could see your chin has absolutely zero projection and didnt develop properly, i almost want to break that part of your face off and move it forward lol just not appealing.

 

[Skry]

Nah ive seen your real side profile and youre tilting away and biting down to make your side profile worse jfl. Bimax and genio would def be enough for you. Tbh bro I feel you with the bite part, not everyone is a bimax candidate based off bite alone. I think Alfaro has a whole lecture on this subject. Maybe a try a good 10-12mm genio (which is a lot of movement) and if you still look recessed then reevaluate options. Send a pic of your real side profile bro, dont tilt your head any direction and have your mouth how you usually would.

Dude, I am not trying to tilt my head, it was an accident. I was just hard mewing to see my jaw in a profile shot. If u have seen my other pics then u know how fucked my side profile is even if this pic is exaggerated. Clenching my jaw doesn't change the position of my chin bro, what are u talking about. But OK heres another pic! so ppl can laugh react at my misfortune
Anyways I'd be down to check out that lecture if I can find it/you can find it for me. Bimax+Genio can do a lot for me, I just dont know what is the reliable way to get it done. I'm not naive enough to think I can just trust surgeons to always have the best plan for me, they can botch hard especially with my weird case.

also from the scan you could see your chin has absolutely zero projection and didnt develop properly, i almost want to break that part of your face off and move it forward lol just not appealing.

like a genio, yes ok I will get a fucking genio. this may be my last resort plan, if I'm still unsure by next month I'll just get a genio first, then I can probably last another 3 years while I plan the bimax and genio correction and do all the orthodontics stuff

 

[Kebab Master]

I usually consider bimax as cope
But in your scenario even that feels to be short .
Bimax+genio+implants to look human tbh .
Your 4th pic is beyond human looking , moneymax and fix face asap .

mogs me

 

[Deleted member 24002]

Dude, I am not trying to tilt my head, it was an accident. I was just hard mewing to see my jaw in a profile shot. If u have seen my other pics then u know how fucked my side profile is even if this pic is exaggerated. Clenching my jaw doesn't change the position of my chin bro, what are u talking about. But OK heres another pic! so ppl can laugh react at my misfortune
Anyways I'd be down to check out that lecture if I can find it/you can find it for me. Bimax+Genio can do a lot for me, I just dont know what is the reliable way to get it done. I'm not naive enough to think I can just trust surgeons to always have the best plan for me, they can botch hard especially with my weird case.

like a genio, yes ok I will get a fucking genio. this may be my last resort plan, if I'm still unsure by next month I'll just get a genio first, then I can probably last another 3 years while I plan the bimax and genio correction and do all the orthodontics stuff

yeah you have no chin bro

This guy looks about as recessed as you and got a 10mm genio. Looks human now. Go for it bro the procedure is like 7k USD you could probably get it done this summer.

 

[Deleted member 27660]

i don’t know about surgeries but genio sounds good. talk to a good orthodontist about the surgery plan and consider them first. my whole jaw ascended with invisalign and hard mewing. i would prioritize that first

 

[Matthias8272]

Go to every ortho in your area till they follow ramieris plan

 

[Skry]

i don’t know about surgeries but genio sounds good. talk to a good orthodontist about the surgery plan and consider them first. my whole jaw ascended with invisalign and hard mewing. i would prioritize that first

Sorry it's not that I dont believe you but how the hell does invisalign change your jaw? Just by straightening your teeth? What's going on there. Also I am already been mewing for years, hard mewing since last year, but the damage has been done since I was young, after a decade+ of mouth breathing it's too late now. I need surgery.

Go to every ortho in your area till they follow ramieris plan

I could most certainly even convince my bluepilled ortho to follow ramieri's plan. However some of the issues he has with the plan have stuck out to me as well. I'm not saying Ramieri is wrong, I'm saying, at the very least, I don't understand enough that I feel safe following this plan. Remember, lefort surgeries are generally considered ridiculously risky and last resort surgeries to non looksmaxx autists. I'm not trying to fuck my life up with this. Fact is there doesn't seem to be a lot of other people who have to get teeth removed just to make room for a bimax, so I'm having trouble finding people to get their experience from. Mostly just caucasians who get these surgeries anyways, and it's ethnics like me who have insane protrusion problems.

 

[dakchuh]

you have recessed upper maxilla and radix as well. compare yourself to this.



i'd do remove upper and lower premolars, get bimax and genio with big movement. then get infraorbital implants and radix implants and rhinoplasty. of course a shitty done rhino (most of them) will leave you looking very uncanny as you'll look obviously surgeryfrauded. but thats the only way to fix your southern chinese monkey pheno.

the reason why your ortho rejected bimax is because he's looking at your shitty pheno as of NOW and thinking how he can best fix your face. except your pheno is garbage inthe first place. go big or go home.


@Cheesyrumble @ChinkboytakeurBAE @apemaxxed

 

[dakchuh]

cha eunwoo is a gigachang though so you'll never look like him. here's someone somewhat closer to your looks. what i said still applies though.

 

[Matthias8272]

Sorry it's not that I dont believe you but how the hell does invisalign change your jaw? Just by straightening your teeth? What's going on there. Also I am already been mewing for years, hard mewing since last year, but the damage has been done since I was young, after a decade+ of mouth breathing it's too late now. I need surgery.

I could most certainly even convince my bluepilled ortho to follow ramieri's plan. However some of the issues he has with the plan have stuck out to me as well. I'm not saying Ramieri is wrong, I'm saying, at the very least, I don't understand enough that I feel safe following this plan. Remember, lefort surgeries are generally considered ridiculously risky and last resort surgeries to non looksmaxx autists. I'm not trying to fuck my life up with this. Fact is there doesn't seem to be a lot of other people who have to get teeth removed just to make room for a bimax, so I'm having trouble finding people to get their experience from. Mostly just caucasians who get these surgeries anyways, and it's ethnics like me who have insane protrusion problems.

Yes you're supposed to consult with multiple surgeons before choosing one, I assumed you had and decided ramieris plan was the best. If many surgeons are telling you the same it's likely correct

 

[Deleted member 27660]

Sorry it's not that I dont believe you but how the hell does invisalign change your jaw?

invisalign has rubber bands after a while holding your jaw shut. i know you need surgery but i’m saying take orthodontist’s precaution over the surgeon’s. even if it mend meeting with a different ortho

 

[Skry]

you have recessed upper maxilla and radix as well. compare yourself to this.

View attachment 2174771

i'd do remove upper and lower premolars, get bimax and genio with big movement. then get infraorbital implants and radix implants and rhinoplasty. of course a shitty done rhino (most of them) will leave you looking very uncanny as you'll look obviously surgeryfrauded. but thats the only way to fix your southern chinese monkey pheno.

the reason why your ortho rejected bimax is because he's looking at your shitty pheno as of NOW and thinking how he can best fix your face. except your pheno is garbage inthe first place. go big or go home.

interesting! and thanks for actually pointing out my specific deficiencies

But how does this solve the issue of my lack of overjet (no room to move lower jaw forward)? will any surgeon recommend me to get 4 premolars removed, cuz if they're like ramieri, they are just going to tell me to remove lower 2 premolars and then do bimax with large lower jaw movement + genio.

do you think this is a good plan? this year ill get genio and do upper/lower premolar removal. 1+ years later ill go contact surgeons again and plan bimax + genio revision. then in future i can think about implants and rhino if necessary

do u think its safe to remove premolars just for this? like this wont mess up my bite too bad for life, will it, cuz people always say, keep all the teeth you can

 

[Skry]

invisalign has rubber bands after a while holding your jaw shut. i know you need surgery but i’m saying take orthodontist’s precaution over the surgeon’s. even if it mend meeting with a different ortho

so it helped ur jaw by forcing u to not mouth breathe.?

 

[CristianT]

I usually consider bimax as cope
But in your scenario even that feels to be short .
Bimax+genio+implants to look human tbh .
Your 4th pic is beyond human looking , moneymax and fix face asap .

He seems to have good elasticity in the skin. He is a perfect candidate for the things you mentioned

 

[dakchuh]

interesting! and thanks for actually pointing out my specific deficiencies

But how does this solve the issue of my lack of overjet (no room to move lower jaw forward)? will any surgeon recommend me to get 4 premolars removed, cuz if they're like ramieri, they are just going to tell me to remove lower 2 premolars and then do bimax with large lower jaw movement + genio.

do you think this is a good plan? this year ill get genio and do upper/lower premolar removal. 1+ years later ill go contact surgeons again and plan bimax + genio revision. then in future i can think about implants and rhino if necessary

do u think its safe to remove premolars just for this? like this wont mess up my bite too bad for life, will it, cuz people always say, keep all the teeth you can

if u remove teeth from both upper and lower jaws then the surgeon will cut and move both jaws after braces pull teeth back. no overjet needed. the point of removal of teeth here is to reduce your dental protrusion (commonly occurs in southern chinese monkey pheno)

i dont know if there is miscommunication here but if ramieri says only remove bottom teeth then does he not intend to cut upper jaw? then its not called bimax. if that is the case then he is also just trying to fix your face for your pheno you have right now. ramieri's plan and your orthos plan are both low risk low reward. you wont look like a subhuman after they fix you but you wont ascend much higher than MTN.

what i suggest is high risk high reward because you are hardcapped by your monkey pheno. you'll have to go through a lot more pain and surgeries for A CHANCE at becoming actually gl. whether that happens depends on many other factors like harmony and your other features and whether if u get botched nosejobs etc etc. so what is ur risk tolerance?

 

[Skry]

if u remove teeth from both upper and lower jaws then the surgeon will cut and move both jaws after braces pull teeth back. no overjet needed. the point of removal of teeth here is to reduce your dental protrusion (commonly occurs in southern chinese monkey pheno)

i dont know if there is miscommunication here but if ramieri says only remove bottom teeth then does he not intend to cut upper jaw? then its not called bimax. if that is the case then he is also just trying to fix your face for your pheno you have right now. ramieri's plan and your orthos plan are both low risk low reward. you wont look like a subhuman after they fix you but you wont ascend much higher than MTN.

what i suggest is high risk high reward because you are hardcapped by your monkey pheno. you'll have to go through a lot more pain and surgeries for A CHANCE at becoming actually gl. whether that happens depends on many other factors like harmony and your other features and whether if u get botched nosejobs etc etc. so what is ur risk tolerance?

No he did specifically say he will cut both lower and upper jaw. But he said that the upper teeth are already in an ok position so he wanted to move the bottom jaw forward. But still can I just go with my current bluepill ortho plan to remove both premolars and fix protrusion. Then later down the road after its all set, I go talking to surgeons again. Or do I need surgeons to plan from this stage too

 

[BrownEyesWD]

Your lower jaw and chin are clearly recessed based on the scan and the pictures. Your maxilla isn’t recessed as much compared to lower jaw but you have nasal deficiency which gives the impression of a significantly recessed maxilla. Makes sense why Ramieri wants to create an overjet to advance the lower jaw more of course.

Consult with a few other orthodontists and see what they say. In my opinion you are clearly a candidate for trimax as you are recessed in these areas. You can also consult with a few other surgeons too and then come to a conclusion.

Palate looks good but again consult with orthos on this.

If I was you I would certainly get jaw surgery. Doing the orthos plan is like putting make up on in my opinion.

The main thing I stress is to consult with more orthodontists/jaw surgeons.

 

[5.5psl]

I usually consider bimax as cope
But in your scenario even that feels to be short .
Bimax+genio+implants to look human tbh .
Your 4th pic is beyond human looking , moneymax and fix face asap .

@User49
Am i right ?

 

[User49]

@User49
Am i right ?

it’s over for op

 

[dakchuh]

No he did specifically say he will cut both lower and upper jaw. But he said that the upper teeth are already in an ok position so he wanted to move the bottom jaw forward. But still can I just go with my current bluepill ortho plan to remove both premolars and fix protrusion. Then later down the road after its all set, I go talking to surgeons again. Or do I need surgeons to plan from this stage too

i would get everything set up now. u dont know if surgeons may give u surprises down the line such as asking u put on braces again to move ur teeth a certain way etc etc

 

[normie_joe]

Dude, I am not trying to tilt my head, it was an accident. I was just hard mewing to see my jaw in a profile shot. If u have seen my other pics then u know how fucked my side profile is even if this pic is exaggerated. Clenching my jaw doesn't change the position of my chin bro, what are u talking about. But OK heres another pic! so ppl can laugh react at my misfortune
Anyways I'd be down to check out that lecture if I can find it/you can find it for me. Bimax+Genio can do a lot for me, I just dont know what is the reliable way to get it done. I'm not naive enough to think I can just trust surgeons to always have the best plan for me, they can botch hard especially with my weird case.

like a genio, yes ok I will get a fucking genio. this may be my last resort plan, if I'm still unsure by next month I'll just get a genio first, then I can probably last another 3 years while I plan the bimax and genio correction and do all the orthodontics stuff

This looks infinitely more manageable than your first pic; it really was the angles messing you up.

 

[Deleted member 1901]

My advice is gonna sound brutal or even ridiculous, but it’s what you’ll need if you are ever to look decent.

You need lefort 2/lefort 3 and genio. Possibly BSSO to keep your bite after lefort.

 

[Skry]

My advice is gonna sound brutal or even ridiculous, but it’s what you’ll need if you are ever to look decent.

You need lefort 2/lefort 3 and genio. Possibly BSSO to keep your bite after lefort.

I dont know if a single person on this site has got a lf3 for non emergency medical reason. let alone lf2

 

[agoostis]

how TF does this guy have bigger airways than me even tho im much more forward grown than him?