Sfs at 15

[mikeperry271]

You don't need surgery.

nobody 'needs' surgery, unless you have an underlying health issue.
His question however is how to improve his lower third. In that case he'd need surgery.
Just look at how much his appearence can improve by sorting out his lower third:

 

[Lawton88]

why not? i do have sfs, and surgery is the only way to fix it

Looking again you have it pretty mild. I guess surgery could help.

 

[AronnMtn]

Looking again you have it pretty mild. I guess surgery could help.

yea i dont want it at all, i wouldnt even consider it a hardmaxx or cosmetic, i would put it under medical bc it could cause sleep apnea and such

 

[AronnMtn]

Yep. Mild SFS as I thought. Do you have to really strain your mouth to get that amount of tooth show?

yep, if i dont, barely any teeth show, my smile is very ugly i cant stand it, it looks unnatural

 

[Snicket]

yep, if i dont, barely any teeth show, my smile is very ugly i cant stand it, it looks unnatural

The solution is jaw surgery to downgraft the upper jaw because it's too short for good tooth show.

 

[AronnMtn]

The solution is jaw surgery to downgraft the upper jaw because it's too short for good tooth show.

would it be possible at my age? or would i be forced to wait till im older, i dont wanna spend my teenage years with shitty sfs

 

[NoaA99]

True, but in all of these cases, he probably needs to have surgery

Not necessarily. If he has a very mild form of SFS, which seems quite likely- he almost certainly wouldn’t be covered.

People here often forget that jaw surgery is primarily intended for those with severe, pathological issues that affect long-term health, not for individuals seeking marginal aesthetic improvements.

In his case, a very slight clockwise rotation of the Maxilla would probably be sufficient, if he actually has a lack of upper tooth show.

 

[mikeperry271]

The solution is jaw surgery to downgraft the upper jaw because it's too short for good tooth show.

yeah that will probably become double jaw surgery
I have a slightly similar case.
When they do any movement in the maxilla, it's hard to keep the bite the same without moving the mandible, so there will be slight movement in the mandible as well.

 

[AronnMtn]

Not necessarily. If he has a very mild form of SFS, which seems quite likely- he almost certainly wouldn’t be covered.

People here often forget that jaw surgery is primarily intended for those with severe, pathological issues that affect long-term health, not for individuals seeking marginal aesthetic improvements.

In his case, a very slight clockwise rotation of the Maxilla would probably be sufficient, if he actually has a lack of upper tooth show.

if it wouldnt be covered, what cost would it be

 

[NoaA99]

would it be possible at my age? or would i be forced to wait till im older, i dont wanna spend my teenage years with shitty sfs

Bro, no one even notices it. It looks very mild. You’ll be just fine in the meantime

 

[diditeverbegin]

would it be possible at my age? or would i be forced to wait till im older, i dont wanna spend my teenage years with shitty sfs

I don't know honestly. I think most jaw surgeons do not want to operate on minors. If you find one, your parents will have to consent.

 

[diditeverbegin]

if it wouldnt be covered, what cost would it be

Bro, no one even notices it. It looks very mild. You’ll be just fine in the meantime

Exactly. Has anyone mocked you or pointed it out to you before?

 

[AronnMtn]

Bro, no one even notices it. It looks very mild. You’ll be just fine in the meantime

well if no one notices it, why did 3 people tell me about it yesterday, thats how i even found out, plus it would just drastically change my looks if fixed

 

[mikeperry271]

People here often forget that jaw surgery is primarily intended for those with severe, pathological issues that affect long-term health, not for individuals seeking marginal aesthetic improvements.

Not true. I have a slightly similar case like him and the surgeon I spoke with was very enthousiastic and told me he does cases like these all the time.
You don't have to be 'severely' recessed or whatever to get surgery.
You just have to be different from normal.
If everything is already (close to) normal, you will indeed not get a surgeon to agree on surgery.
In this case, he HAS sfs, so a surgeon will happily perfom surgery on him.

 

[AronnMtn]

Exactly. Has anyone mocked you or pointed it out to you before?

ppl have said i have a strong chin and not in a good way, and thats just the sfs making it prominent

 

[Snicket]

Bro, no one even notices it. It looks very mild. You’ll be just fine in the meantime

I agree with Noa. You'll have to wait until you're 18 until your jaws have completely finished growng.
No surgeon will operate on you until there is maturation.

 

[AronnMtn]

Not true. I have a slightly similar case like him and the surgeon I spoke with was very enthousiastic and told me he does cases like these all the time.
You don't have to be 'severely' recessed or whatever to get surgery.
You just have to be different from normal.
If everything is already (close to) normal, you will indeed not get a surgeon to agree on surgery.
In this case, he HAS sfs, so a surgeon will happily perfom surgery on him.

yes very good, would it be covered by insurance?

 

[AronnMtn]

I agree with Noa. You'll have to wait until you're 18 until your jaws have completely finished growng.
No surgeon will operate on you until there is maturation.

i thought the jaw could continue to grow in mass a little until 21-25

 

[diditeverbegin]

yes very good, would it be covered by insurance?

Do you have sleep apnea or anything?

 

[NoaA99]

well if no one notices it, why did 3 people tell me about it yesterday, thats how i even found out, plus it would just drastically change my looks if fixed

Who exactly? Probably just a few guys rotting on incel or Reddit forums just like us, obsessing over this kind of stuff. No regular person without specific knowledge would ever even notice, let alone bring it up

 

[mikeperry271]

yes very good, would it be covered by insurance?

I don't know the policy of your health insurance.
Go speak to a surgeon and see.
However, given the fact that you're only 15, it's close to impossible to get surgery now, so you will likely have to live with it till 18.

 

[mikeperry271]

Who exactly? Probably just a few guys rotting on incel or Reddit forums just like us, obsessing over this kind of stuff. No regular person without specific knowledge would ever even notice, let alone bring it up

No one would indeed bring it up, and he can very comfortably live with it.
But we can't say that he won't look better without having it fixed.

 

[NoaA99]

Not true. I have a slightly similar case like him and the surgeon I spoke with was very enthousiastic and told me he does cases like these all the time.
You don't have to be 'severely' recessed or whatever to get surgery.
You just have to be different from normal.
If everything is already (close to) normal, you will indeed not get a surgeon to agree on surgery.
In this case, he HAS sfs, so a surgeon will happily perfom surgery on him.

Which country do you live in? My case is way worse than his- I have an underdeveloped maxilla in every possible dimension, an underdeveloped mandible, a midline discrepancy, skeletal class III, and TMJ damage confirmed by scans. I even used to have sleep apnea.
And yet, no one but me has to pay for the surgery.
Germany is brutal in that regard.

 

[AronnMtn]

Do you have sleep apnea or anything?

well my tells me i snore slightly, and sometimes i wake up with headaches and last night i felt like i never even slept at all it was so restless, but i havent gotten anything diagnosed

 

[Snicket]

i thought the jaw could continue to grow in mass a little until 21-25

Maxilla finishes around 16. This is where your vertical deficiency is.
Mandible is largely done by 18.
Any residual growth will be minimal.

 

[mikeperry271]

Which country do you live in? My case is way worse than his- I have an underdeveloped maxilla in every possible dimension, an underdeveloped mandible, a midline discrepancy, skeletal class III, and TMJ damage confirmed by scans. I even used to have sleep apnea.
And yet, no one but me has to pay for the surgery.
Germany is brutal in that regard.

Netherlands.
The problem might be with your health insurance provider rather than the country you live in.
I knew I was going for this surgery this year, so I changed my insurance provider to a better provider before the end of last year.

 

[diditeverbegin]

well my tells me i snore slightly, and sometimes i wake up with headaches and last night i felt like i never even slept at all it was so restless, but i havent gotten anything diagnosed

I can't diagnose you

 

[AronnMtn]

Which country do you live in? My case is way worse than his- I have an underdeveloped maxilla in every possible dimension, an underdeveloped mandible, a midline discrepancy, skeletal class III, and TMJ damage confirmed by scans. I even used to have sleep apnea.
And yet, no one but me has to pay for the surgery.
Germany is brutal in that regard.

i live in United States, would that help me?

 

[NoaA99]

No one would indeed bring it up, and he can very comfortably live with it.
But we can't say that he won't look better without having it fixed.

Yes, possibly. But he should have realistic expectations. For most "normal" people, this level of slight improvement wouldn’t justify the financial cost, the surgical risks, and the long recovery period.

 

[Snicket]

Who exactly? Probably just a few guys rotting on incel or Reddit forums just like us, obsessing over this kind of stuff. No regular person without specific knowledge would ever even notice, let alone bring it up

True I have a significantly more severe case of SFS than OP and no-one has brought it up.
Although, I was made fun of it by a few older kids at high school for my toothless smile.
But never happened apart from that one time.

 

[AronnMtn]

I can't diagnose you

yea i know i just wanted to give some symptoms on why i believe sfs affects me, my mom has veryyy strong sleep apnea and she has sfs too

 

[mikeperry271]

But he should have realistic expectations

Agree, but the morph I provided is a very realistic expectation. If you look at other previous cases like him (mild SFS and possibly in combination with a recessed maxilla), the results seem very good. There even was one bimax result posted on this forum a few days ago.

For most "normal" people, this level of slight improvement wouldn’t justify the financial cost, the surgical risks, and the long recovery period.

This depends per person. I think we should also take into account the mental wellbeing of OP.
He stated he does not like to smile as he doesnt like his own smile. That seems reason enough for me to go for this surgery.

 

[diditeverbegin]

i live in United States, would that help me?

How does living in the US help you with that lol. Healthcare isn't free here/reduced like in the EU.

 

[AronnMtn]

Yes, possibly. But he should have realistic expectations. For most "normal" people, this level of slight improvement wouldn’t justify the financial cost, the surgical risks, and the long recovery period.

what complications could arise from this surgery?

 

[AronnMtn]

How does living in the US help you with that lol. Healthcare isn't free here/reduced like in the EU.

well some guy said he lived in germany, and he asked what country we live in

 

[AronnMtn]

How does living in the US help you with that lol. Healthcare isn't free here/reduced like in the EU.

i have healthcare regardless so doesn’t rlly matter

 

[diditeverbegin]

i have healthcare regardless so doesn’t rlly matter

Yeah but this surgery is probably going to count as cosmetic.

 

[NoaA99]

Agree, but the morph I provided is a very realistic expectation. If you look at other previous cases like him (mild SFS and possibly in combination with a recessed maxilla), the results seem very good. There even was one bimax result posted on this forum a few days ago.

This depends per person. I think we should also take into account the mental wellbeing of OP.
He stated he does not like to smile as he doesnt like his own smile. That seems reason enough for me to go for this surgery.

Has OP posted his smile yet?
Wellbeing is a pretty vague term in this context. A lot of people here will always find another flaw and keep chasing perfection. I’ve seen it happen over and over on this forum. Their mental health doesn’t improve, it often gets worse.
I’m not saying that would definitely be the case here, but OP should carefully weigh the risks and potential gains, and be honest with himself about it.

 

[NoaA99]

Yeah but this surgery is probably going to count as cosmetic.

100%

 

[diditeverbegin]

Has OP posted his smile yet?
Wellbeing is a pretty vague term in this context. A lot of people here will always find another flaw and keep chasing perfection. I’ve seen it happen over and over on this forum. Their mental health doesn’t improve, it often gets worse.
I’m not saying that would definitely be the case here, but OP should carefully weigh the risks and potential gains, and be honest with himself about it.

He did, slight SFS

 

[mikeperry271]

Has OP posted his smile yet?

yes

Wellbeing is a pretty vague term in this context. A lot of people here will always find another flaw and keep chasing perfection. I’ve seen it happen over and over on this forum. Their mental health doesn’t improve, it often gets worse.

I agree, but this again depends on the person. I am just speaking from my own perspective. If I wouldn't be comfortable to smile, even in social settings, I would 100% fix this.

 

[NoaA99]

Netherlands.
The problem might be with your health insurance provider rather than the country you live in.
I knew I was going for this surgery this year, so I changed my insurance provider to a better provider before the end of last year.

Here in Germany (and I trust several surgeons and orthodontists I have discussed this possibility with) , insurance only covers it if your lower teeth significantly overlap the upper ones.
I have a compromised class 1 bite- and was basically told, I had luck, or rather bad luck, that my body seems to be efficient in compromising any shortcomings. Unfortunately, that does not mean I´m free of most negative consequences in regards to health.

Some type of medical assessor takes a close look at your case to decide. So even with real issues, if it doesn’t meet their strict criteria, you’re not getting coverage.

 

[NoaA99]

He did, slight SFS

Ok, thank you- I missed that

 

[mikeperry271]

Here in Germany (and I trust several surgeons and orthodontists I have discussed this possibility with) , insurance only covers it if your lower teeth significantly overlap the upper ones.
I have a compromised class 1 bite- and was basically told, I had luck, or rather bad luck, that my body seems to be efficient of compromising any shortcomings. Unfortunately, that does not mean I´m free of most negative consequences in regards to health.

Some type of medical assessor takes a close look at your case to decide. So even with real issues, if it doesn’t meet their strict criteria, you’re not getting coverage.

I have the same issue. However, as my palate is also narrow my surgeon suggested we go with SARPE first. As this will most likely further recess my maxilla and the underbite will get worse, the bimax will also be covered.
How is your palate?

 

[NoaA99]

yes

I agree, but this again depends on the person. I am just speaking from my own perspective. If I wouldn't be comfortable to smile, even in social settings, I would 100% fix this.

Of course, it’s his decision in the end. I won’t judge him for it, as long as he’s thought it through properly.

 

[superpsycho]

View attachment 3646574View attachment 3646578

mogs me

 

[NoaA99]

I have the same issue. However, as my palate is also narrow my surgeon suggested we go with SARPE first. As this will most likely further recess my maxilla and the underbite will get worse, the bimax will also be covered.
How is your palate?

It is wider now, as I have already taken the first step by expanding my palate with MSE.

SARPE was initially recommended, but I declined, and opted for MSE instead, because of my sleep apnea.

 

[mikeperry271]

It is wider now, as I have already taken the first step by expanding my palate with MSE.

SARPE was initially recommended, but I declined, and opted for MSE instead, because of my sleep apnea.

Was MSE covered by insurance? Did it further recess your maxilla?
My orthodontist claimed there is a very high chance you will further recess your maxilla by widening your palate.

 

[NoaA99]

Was MSE covered by insurance? Did it further recess your maxilla?
My orthodontist claimed there is a very high chance you will further recess your maxilla by widening your palate.

No, it was not. It cost about 14 000 € in Munich.

I have no clue, not noticeably so at least. I would have to compare the pre- and post MSE CT-scans.

I looked better before though, it expanded a bit asymmetrical, and my face as a whole was pretty wide, even before the expansion.
Nose breathing has improved greatly, though.

 

[mikeperry271]

No, it was not. It cost about 14 000 € in Munich.

damn man that's a lot for a non surgical device

I have no clue, not noticeably so at least. I would have to compare the pre- and post MSE CT-scans.

I looked better before though, it expanded a bit asymmetrical, and my face as a whole was pretty wide, even before the expansion.
Nose breathing has improved greatly, though.

Great that it helped with breathing. I would deffo get that checked man.
Are you still planning on doing bimax? Maybe outside of Germany, since it's not covered?