Surgery advice needed

[GetLooks101]

Based on the scan what surgery/surgeries do I need to improve my side profile? (24 years old)

 

[JohanBigBalle]

I haven't seen many scans, but you look obese. If true then get lean + double jaw surgery.

Read this IG post from @RealSurgerymax too:

 

[GetLooks101]

Ok, I think I had to mention that the scan was from January 2023. Since then I already got pretty lean, which changed my neck/jaw area

 

[GetLooks101]

Is a bimax necessary or would a sliding genioplasty be enough?

 

[Ogionth]

I haven't seen many scans, but you look obese. If true then get lean + double jaw surgery.

Read this IG post from @RealSurgerymax too:

Jfl stop recommending DJS when you know nothing about who is a good aesthetic candidate for it.

I'm too tired of people here recommending DJS like it's something everyone should do.

Handing DJS recommendations out like flyers

While they can, the roi would be minimal.

 

[JohanBigBalle]

Jfl stop recommending DJS when you know nothing about who is a good aesthetic candidate for it.

I'm too tired of people here recommending DJS like it's something everyone should do.

Handing DJS recommendations out like flyers

While they can, the roi would be minimal.

He could actually be fine with just implants IMO, no DJS. But he specifically asked for SURGERIES. What SURGERIES do I need to improve my side profile.

So I figured might as well recommend DJS. After all, his side profile would be improved by it.

And also, not everyone is as risk averse as you might be. Some people might be willing to endure the healing process of DJS while others may not. And if he isn't then he can just choose to ignore my suggestion. That doesn't mean that no body should even suggest it in the first place. To each their own.

Like you're literally complaining about a DJS recommendation under "Cosmetic Surgery" within a thread where OP is asking for surgery recommendations

 

[Ogionth]

He could actually be fine with just implants IMO, no DJS. But he specifically asked for SURGERIES. What SURGERIES do I need to improve my side profile.

So I figured might as well recommend DJS. After all, his side profile would be improved by it.

And also, not everyone is as risk averse as you might be. Some people might be willing to endure the healing process of DJS while others may not. And if he isn't then he can just choose to ignore my suggestion. That doesn't mean that no body should even suggest it in the first place. To each their own.

Like you're literally complaining about a DJS recommendation under "Cosmetic Surgery" within a thread where OP is asking for surgery recommendations

No one talked about the "healing process" of DJS, we're in a looksmax server, we only care about the results.

I said "roi" if you're blind.

Moreover, "cosmetic surgery section" doesn't mean you should just recommend things that are of no or minimal use to the person.

Your logic is extremely flawed, it's like saying "This is a cosmetic surgery section so get LL, cantuo, rhino, fat graft, lf1, bsso, full face implants, monobloc"

You fucking idiot


greycels will never fail to surprise me with their idiocy.

you joined 20 days ago, so keep quiet and read more instead of recommending random surgeries to people.

 

[JohanBigBalle]

I said "roi" if you're blind.

Sounds like a broke nigga is speaking.

Also you're not just investing financially but with time and endurance, so yes the healing process is relevant.

And by "roi" that's what I assumed you meant. Didnt realize 20k was such an "investment" to u. Fucking pajeet

Your logic is extremely flawed, it's like saying "This is a cosmetic surgery section so get LL, cantuo, rhino, fat graft, lf1, bsso, full face implants, monobloc"

No it's not lmao. Bro comes here and asks for what to do for his side profile. I recommend a surgery that would improve his side profile based on the 1st picture he provided (a recommendation which was true and remains true).

If he would've asked for surgeries to improve his eye area, I would've suggested the relevant ones. so it's not a "random" suggestion.

Go fuck yourself. Out here calling people "grey" like it's a cool thing to spend your life rotting on an incel forum.

No one talked about the "healing process" of DJS, we're in a looksmax server, we only care about the results.

That just means you're a fucking retard.

 

[Ogionth]

Sounds like a broke nigga is speaking.

Also you're not just investing financially but with time and endurance, so yes the healing process is relevant.

And by "roi" that's what I assumed you meant. Didnt realize 20k was such an "investment" to u. Fucking pajeet

It's obviously a huge investment for the majority of people here lmao, that are kids.

Get out of your fantasy world.

Go read the 2024 survey of the forum, it has only gotten younger since.

And regardless, wasting 20K is a bad choice for everyone regardless of them being adults or not especially since as you said, it would also waste their time, so just waste 20K and months of time to ascend by 0.000001 psl theory.

No it's not lmao. Bro comes here and asks for what to do for his side profile. I recommend a surgery that would improve his side profile based on the 1st picture he provided (a recommendation which was true and remains true).

If he would've asked for surgeries to improve his eye area, I would've suggested the relevant ones. so it's not a "random" suggestion.

Yes it is, he would barely benefit from the lefort part of a bimax if he already has a developed maxilla.

Stop strawmanning my analogy.

Your original logic "He asked for surgeries to improve side so I'm gonna recommend everything even if it improves his side by only 0.000000001 psl"

fucking idiot

Go fuck yourself. Out here calling people "grey" like it's a cool thing to spend your life rotting on an incel forum.

It just portrays your lack of knowledge regarding hardmaxxing since you're a newbie.

That just means you're a fucking retard.

No it doesn't, no one that seriously wants to ascend would consider it a "no" only because they had to endure a bit more pain lmao, the duration of healing is not that long.

Iqlet, dont ever advise anyone again and kill yourself.

 

[JohanBigBalle]

It's obviously a huge investment for the majority of people here lmao, that are kids.

clearly the scan of a kid.

0.000001 psl theory.

"fantasy world" ok, check urself:

Stop strawmanning my analogy.

The irony... :

It's obviously a huge investment for the majority of people here lmao, that are kids.

And regardless, wasting 20K is a bad choice for everyone regardless of them being adults or not especially since as you said, it would also waste their time, so just waste 20K and months of time to ascend by 0.000001 psl theory.

Your logic is extremely flawed, it's like saying "This is a cosmetic surgery section so get LL, cantuo, rhino, fat graft, lf1, bsso, full face implants, monobloc"

Your original logic "He asked for surgeries to improve side so I'm gonna recommend everything even if it improves his side by only 0.000000001 psl"

..

No it doesn't, no one that seriously wants to ascend would consider it a "no" only because they had to endure a bit more pain lmao, the duration of healing is not that long.

Bcuz everyones opionions is the same as yours.
Either way, my point was more so that someone who doesn't care about the healing process (INCL risks etc) is retarded. But I didn't say that so that's my mistake for being unclear.

And no, my orginal logic was not at all "I'm gonna recommend everything even if it improves his side by only 0.000000001 psl"

You're the one who pulled out the "0.000000001 psl" ... and you talk about strawmanning

Haters gonna hate tho

 

[Ogionth]

clearly the scan of a kid.

Do you think every adult has 20K to spare and waste? Cmon now

The irony... :

That's not a strawman, merely an addition.

Moreover, the fact that you think it's okay for adults to waste a bunch of money and waste alot of time is even more hilarious

Stop embarrassing yourself

..

Bcuz everyones opionions is the same as yours.

This is a looksmax forum, and most of them hold the same opinion.

You're a grown ass man and you'll be saying "no" to a surgery because of the pain?

Either way, my point was more so that someone who doesn't care about the healing process (INCL risks etc) is retarded. But I didn't say that so that's my mistake for being unclear.

Those are included in the "results" which I talked about, if the complications are so severe that either it affects the looks or your health severely (after the duration of healing ends)

You weren't being "unclear" you were just arguing for the sake of arguing, not because you had a point.

And no, my orginal logic was not at all "I'm gonna recommend everything even if it improves his side by only 0.000000001 psl"

You're the one who pulled out the "0.000000001 psl" ... and you talk about strawmanning

Haters gonna hate tho

Holy shit you might actually be retarded, it's not that I pulled out "0.0000001" it's that your suggestion of bimax (lefort part) would not ascend him or ascend him minorly if he has a developed maxilla

It's not a "strawman" it's a deduction from your logic that anyone with a developed maxilla should still get bimax even though it would not improve them much.

Dude has never heard of a hyperbole.

Learn the meaning of words before using them, you're an adult who lacks basic comprehension and this is embarrassing.

 

[JohanBigBalle]

Do you think every adult has 20K to spare and waste? Cmon now

How is that fucking relevant to you and me? His economy is his. He's asking for surgeries, so unless he's larping he should have the economy to back it up.

That's not a strawman, merely an addition.

"Strawmanning is the act of misrepresenting someone's argument to make it easier to attack or refute."
"A straw man fallacy is the informal fallacy of refuting an argument different from the one actually under discussion"

Moreover, the fact that you think it's okay for adults to waste a bunch of money and waste alot of time is even more hilarious

^ A straw man. Because again, I never made that argument.
But ok you're right, it's not okay. Let's forbid surgery. Or wtf are u even trying to say here?

This is a looksmax forum, and most of them hold the same opinion.

You're a grown ass man and you'll be saying "no" to a surgery because of the pain?

I already clarified what I mean. Any mature patient should be aware of what the process entails including potential risks & what to expect / what u must endure. Anyone that doesn't care is retarded and imo not mature enough to be doing surgery.

my original statement was

Some people might be willing to endure the healing process of DJS while others may not.

which was when you said:

we only care about the results.

to which I responded that it's fucking retarded. "only caring about results" and thus not caring about the healing process.

Holy shit you might actually be retarded, it's not that I pulled out "0.0000001" it's that your suggestion of bimax (lefort part) would not ascend him or ascend him minorly if he has a developed maxilla

It's not a "strawman" it's a deduction from your logic that anyone with a developed maxilla should still get bimax even though it would not improve them much.

Dude has never heard of a hyperbole.

Learn the meaning of words before using them, you're an adult who lacks basic comprehension and this is embarrassing.

"Strawman arguments often involve the use of hyperbole, which is the exaggerated representation of an opponent’s position. This technique makes it easier to refute because the exaggerated statement is generally less defensible than the actual argument."

it's that your suggestion of bimax (lefort part) would not ascend him or ascend him minorly if he has a developed maxilla

That's just your opinion though. And that's where the difference lies. My opinion is that bimax + nice gonial implants would ascend his side profile a lot (since that's what this thread is about, and what OP is asking about [surgery to improve side profile]). You disagree. And that's it.

 

[JohanBigBalle]

That's not a strawman, merely an addition.

"merely an addition" to my argument. An addition which I did not make. Thus a misrepresentation of my argument, in order to make it easier to argue against.

 

[JohanBigBalle]

Moreover, the fact that you think it's okay for adults to waste a bunch of money and waste alot of time is even more hilarious

Such a fucking weird thing of you to say anyway.

I'm not anyone's daddy bruh, so I don't give a fuck about what people do with their money or time.

People can spend (or "waste") their money or time however they want. And it is okay for them to do so. As long as they're not hurting anyone in the process.

So wtf are you even saying at this point

 

[Ogionth]

How is that fucking relevant to you and me? His economy is his. He's asking for surgeries, so unless he's larping he should have the economy to back it up.

It's relevant because when he asks advice, he doesn't want to spend 20K to improve 0.0001 PSL, that's presupposed.

"Strawmanning is the act of misrepresenting someone's argument to make it easier to attack or refute."
"A straw man fallacy is the informal fallacy of refuting an argument different from the one actually under discussion"

So? how did I misrepresent, I merely added something.

Your argument was "you're broke because u dont have 20K to spare"

I replied - almost everyone here doesn't have it.

You're a grown ass man who doesn't know basic words like strawman?

^ A straw man. Because again, I never made that argument.
But ok you're right, it's not okay. Let's forbid surgery. Or wtf are u even trying to say here?

If you never made the argument then how could it be misrepresented? Exactly, so it's not a strawman.

and "I never said that" - well your statements clearly did, you don't need to say what it is exactly to mistakenly or implicitly say something.

Moreover, I didnt forbid surgery - only what was not needed.

try again

I already clarified what I mean. Any mature patient should be aware of what the process entails including potential risks & what to expect / what u must endure. Anyone that doesn't care is retarded and imo not mature enough to be doing surgery.

You're strawmanning what I said, I never said we don't care about anything. You
added something to your argument which makes it in agreement to mine but now u are making it seem like I was saying something else.

we care about results, not minor swelling or pain.

my original statement was

which was when you said:

to which I responded that it's fucking retarded. "only caring about results" and thus not caring about the healing process.

Obviously we don't care about the healing process and merely the results, If the results are extremely good and u have to endure a bit more pain that's not a break or make, the choice is clear.

The "result" includes long term complications and appearance.

"Strawman arguments often involve the use of hyperbole, which is the exaggerated representation of an opponent’s position. This technique makes it easier to refute because the exaggerated statement is generally less defensible than the actual argument."

How is it a strawman if someone that has a developed maxilla would minorly benefit from a lefort?

You're a fucking idiot if you cant see why I deduced the 0.0001 hyperbole, it was not a strawman and your own argument "Strawmann argument often involves" Means - Every hyperbole is not a strawman but some strawmans include hyperboles.

How are you a grown ass man and you don't know basic English?

That's just your opinion though. And that's where the difference lies. My opinion is that bimax + nice gonial implants would ascend his side profile a lot (since that's what this thread is about, and what OP is asking about [surgery to improve side profile]). You disagree. And that's it.

How would a lefort benefit an already developed maxilla? You're fucking stupid and retarded.

Just because it's an opinion doesn't mean every opinion is valid, some are like yours - completely idiotic.

 

[Ogionth]

Such a fucking weird thing of you to say anyway.

I'm not anyone's daddy bruh, so I don't give a fuck about what people do with their money or time.

People can spend (or "waste") their money or time however they want. And it is okay for them to do so. As long as they're not hurting anyone in the process.

So wtf are you even saying at this point

This forum is not made for you to deceive people into wasting 20K.

It's for pragmatic advices.

If you're admitting to not care about whether their money goes to waste or not, then you shouldn't be giving advice in the first place.

Giving them advice in a manner that they won't ascend and their money will go to waste and you're out here defending your position? Holy retard

 

[Ogionth]

"merely an addition" to my argument. An addition which I did not make. Thus a misrepresentation of my argument, in order to make it easier to argue against.

It's not an addition "TO YOUR ARGUMENT".

It's an addition to my response to your argument that I'm broke because I don't have 20K to waste.

You're a complete retard who not only lacks basic comprehension but also is unable to process logical arguments and thus confuses replies with strawmans, addition to responses and so on.

 

[Ogionth]

bruh, so I don't give a fuck about what people do with their money or time.

Stop embarrassing yourself here and go take a grammar class..

 

[ssxjdgh]

tri max

 

[Ogionth]

Stop embarrassing yourself here and go take a grammar class..

You're quite literally the definition of a mentally retarded person.

You endorse eating raw meat and you also endorse buying scam looksmax courses and got introduced into looksmaxing by fucking jester patel

I wonder if you have bought his course too

Dude I cant even make this shit up

Just end it, you're so fucking stupid that I'm feeling second hand embarrassment for you.

 

[JohanBigBalle]

It's relevant because when he asks advice, he doesn't want to spend 20K to improve 0.0001 PSL, that's presupposed.

And that's the opinion of 99% of people. But that's under the assumption of it only improving his PSL by 0.0001

If you never made the argument then how could it be misrepresented? Exactly, so it's not a strawman.

Misrepresenting my position.

So? how did I misrepresent, I merely added something.

Surgery advice needed

Based on the scan what surgery/surgeries do I need to improve my side profile? (24 years old)

looksmax.org

and "I never said that" - well your statements clearly did, you don't need to say what it is exactly to mistakenly or implicitly say something.

You're the one who introduced the word "waste" due to your opinion being that my suggestion would not significantly ascend his side profile, which again, we disagree on. Which is the basis of this argument. But you seem to not be able to realize that people can have different opinions about things.

We could do a poll and see what others think. "Could DJS + jaw implants ascend him significantly or would it only do so insignificantly?"

You're strawmanning what I said, I never said we don't care about anything. You

I never said that you don't care about anything. I quoted that you said "we only care about results" which is A thing.
Now, "only" is a word that excludes all else. Did you know that? ...Well now you know.

some are like yours - completely idiotic.

^ Funny thing is, that is an opinion.

Stop embarrassing yourself here and go take a grammar class..

Perhaps consider that I do not care about passing your grammar check.

This forum is not made for you to deceive people into wasting 20K.

That's just how you're framing it. It doesn't mean that that's what's going on lol. But you choose to view it that way due to your opinion of what DJS would do for him.

You endorse eating raw meat and you also endorse buying scam looksmax courses and got introduced into looksmaxing by fucking jester patel

"endorse"

No. I never endorsed it. And I literally said "Idk if giant eats raw meat (or even endorses it)" which does not imply that I endorse it. Then it wouldn't have said "or even".

As for endorsing buying scam looksmax courses. No, I never did that.

Funny how you're so mad tho. Literally scrolling my profile, trying to find ANYTHING to say about me.

 

[Ogionth]

And that's the opinion of 99% of people. But that's under the assumption of it only improving his PSL by 0.0001

How would advancing and already developed maxilla improve his PSL by alot you dumb fuck?

Misrepresenting my position.

It's clearly not a misrepresentation if you called me broke for not wasting 20K lmao.

You're like that one person that everytime you get caught "Well u didnt understand" and just change your entire position

You're a fucking absolute retard who doesn't even know what strawman meant and probably had to look it up

Surgery advice needed

Based on the scan what surgery/surgeries do I need to improve my side profile? (24 years old)

looksmax.org

This was a reply to your statement of me being broke

You fucking retard you cant even process replies properly.

You're the one who introduced the word "waste" due to your opinion being that my suggestion would not significantly ascend his side profile, which again, we disagree on. Which is the basis of this argument. But you seem to not be able to realize that people can have different opinions about things.

Except that your opinion was completely retarded.

Why would a person with a developed maxilla require LF1?

We could do a poll and see what others think. "Could DJS + jaw implants ascend him significantly or would it only do so insignificantly?"

We don't need to do a poll on "would an already developed maxilla be benefited by an LF1" to a major extent? yes or no? Thats fucking obvious you fucking retard.

A poll would include the other part of DJS which i never was against to begin w

I never said that you don't care about anything. I quoted that you said "we only care about results" which is A thing.
Now, "only" is a word that excludes all else. Did you know that? ...Well now you know.

You fucking dumb idiot, you do realise that the result means appearance and long term health consequences? YES THATS THE ONLY THING WE cARE ABOUT

^ Funny thing is, that is an opinion.

just because it's an opinion doesn't mean every opinion is incorrect or correct, some are valid and some arw not.

Perhaps consider that I do not care about passing your grammar check.

or perhaps you should've paid more attention in school because you clearly are illiterate and intellectually disabled

That's just how you're framing it. It doesn't mean that that's what's going on lol. But you choose to view it that way due to your opinion of what DJS would do for him.

HOW WOULD A DEVELOPED MAXILLA BENEFIT FROM AN LF1 ON TOP?

"endorse"

No. I never endorsed it. And I literally said "Idk if giant eats raw meat (or even endorses it)" which does not imply that I endorse it. Then it wouldn't have said "or even".

Almost as if you post a pic with a knife and fork in a plate, and ask if another person endorses eating raw meat would be taken as if you're eating raw meat.


Holy fucking retard

As for endorsing buying scam looksmax courses. No, I never did that.

YEs you clearly did, the thread was talking abou it and literally ALL the current looksmax courses in rotation and scams in terms of knowledge not presentation.

Funny how you're so mad tho. Literally scrolling my profile, trying to find ANYTHING to say about me.

Im not mad, just a glance at your profile and we could see that u are a complete retard.

Your opinions on other topics display your lack of intelligence

 

[JohanBigBalle]

This was a reply to your statement of me being broke

You fucking retard you cant even process replies properly.

lol click the hyperlinks buddy

A poll would include the other part of DJS which i never was against to begin w

You mean the implants? Yeah because I didn't wanna throw a bunch of terms at the new guy. It's easier to say double jaw surgery, and if he's serious about it then he will learn about implants as part of DJS along the way (and their role in the aesthetics).

"would an already developed maxilla be benefited by an LF1"

See, this is what I mean by strawman. I clearly said a poll on: "Could DJS + jaw implants ascend him significantly or would it only do so insignificantly?" but you changed it to taint my image and make me SEEM dumb lmao.

Anyway, you're hyper fixated on the maxilla part, so let's talk about that. Now, for some reason I can't see his pics (they don't load anymore) but to my memory he wasn't very projected sub LF1 line.

If he wanted to improve his side profile then advancing his lower third a bit could be something of benefit.

As for "a well developed maxilla" you must understand that maxillas have different shapes. This is to do with phenotypes.

So, a "well developed" maxilla isn't a specific thing that you can point to which remains consistent regardless of whose maxilla you look at.

"Well developed" for one pheno can look very different to "well developed" for another pheno.

As the "best rater on org" you should know this.

Some phenos are generally considered aesthetically superior to others. This is why DJS is often used to mimic certain phenos, in people who already have a well developed maxilla for their dna.

Check out this post: https://looksmax.org/threads/facial-depth-defined.643096/ by @RealSurgerymax , someone who I suspect is more experienced & knowledgeable than you in terms of facial aesthetics, despite some of his patients not looking the "BEST". But that's only a suspicion from a grey, so don't take it to heart.

Now that you've read that.... to play devil's advocate, I think the majority of the improvement would come from jaw implants, not so much the DJS. But that would still be an improvement nonetheless.

Perhaps he'd like to keep his pheno as is, but simply make it look a little more masculine, in which case he could get implants only and it would still be a good improvement.

just because it's an opinion doesn't mean every opinion is incorrect or correct, some are valid and some arw not.

CONGRATULATIONS my boy, you understood.
That was indeed the point.

or perhaps you should've paid more attention in school because you clearly are illiterate and intellectually disabled

Nahhhhhhhh

Almost as if you post a pic with a knife and fork in a plate, and ask if another person endorses eating raw meat would be taken as if you're eating raw meat.

I did eat it, but I did not endorse it.

YEs you clearly did, the thread was talking abou it and literally ALL the current looksmax courses in rotation and scams in terms of knowledge not presentation.

I didn't tell anyone to buy anything. I simply said that I bought a scam course and was grateful for it, because it got me into this. And in a way it's good because these courses enlarge the market and thus help more people find out the truth regarding aesthetics and their importance.

Im not mad, just a glance at your profile and we could see that u are a complete retard.

Ok lol.

"we" tho. Brotha got voices inside his head

 

[Ogionth]

lol click the hyperlinks buddy

?

You mean the implants? Yeah because I didn't wanna throw a bunch of terms at the new guy. It's easier to say double jaw surgery, and if he's serious about it then he will learn about implants as part of DJS along the way (and their role in the aesthetics).

No I mean, the other part of DJS.

Dude I don't think you get what bimax is, bimax isn't just automatically required if someone has a recessed mandible.

See, this is what I mean by strawman. I clearly said a poll on: "Could DJS + jaw implants ascend him significantly or would it only do so insignificantly?" but you changed it to taint my image and make me SEEM dumb lmao.

Anyway, you're hyper fixated on the maxilla part, so let's talk about that. Now, for some reason I can't see his pics (they don't load anymore) but to my memory he wasn't very projected sub LF1 line.

I didn't strawman you, I literally told you in my previous statements that the "I didn't affirm or negate the other part of DJS". I was against the maxillary projection.

If he wanted to improve his side profile then advancing his lower third a bit could be something of benefit.

That's exactly what I agreed with, but I rectified that this didn't need a bimax.

As for "a well developed maxilla" you must understand that maxillas have different shapes. This is to do with phenotypes.

It's not "different shapes" it's the difference between advancement of lower vs upper maxilla (LF2-LF1 area)

So, a "well developed" maxilla isn't a specific thing that you can point to which remains consistent regardless of whose maxilla you look at.

It's specific for simple bimax because LF1 advances your lower maxilla, what are you talking about?

"Well developed" for one pheno can look very different to "well developed" for another pheno.

As the "best rater on org" you should know this.

You're wrong.

Well developed maxilla in the case of bimax refers to the lower maxilla and that's the same for every ethnicity.

And a well developed maxilla in general means - Both the lower and upper maxilla.

Some phenos are generally considered aesthetically superior to others. This is why DJS is often used to mimic certain phenos, in people who already have a well developed maxilla for their dna.

Check out this post: https://looksmax.org/threads/facial-depth-defined.643096/ by @RealSurgerymax , someone who I suspect is more experienced & knowledgeable than you in terms of facial aesthetics, despite some of his patients not looking the "BEST". But that's only a suspicion from a grey, so don't take it to heart.

More as if you should go read the "Upper Maxilla" thread in BOTB because you're confusing what bimax does and what not.

I have read that thread.

CONGRATULATIONS my boy, you understood.
That was indeed the point.

Except that my opinion had substantiation and yours didn't so mine is superior.

Nahhhhhhhh

I think you need it mate, to not embarrass yourself like this again.

I did eat it, but I did not endorse it.

Well the fact that you even tried eating it already speaks volumes about your intelligence.

I didn't tell anyone to buy anything. I simply said that I bought a scam course and was grateful for it, because it got me into this. And in a way it's good because these courses enlarge the market and thus help more people find out the truth regarding aesthetics and their importance.

TLDR - I'm an idiot, bought a course and got scammed.

There are other ways to finding about BP than getting scammed in the beginning lmao

Ok lol.

"we" tho. Brotha got voices inside his head

We as in someone who's not mentally retarded.

 

[JohanBigBalle]

That's exactly what I agreed with, but I rectified that this didn't need a bimax.

"need" but based on whose criteria? We all got different criteria.

It's not that I'm wrong or that you're wrong. It's that the criteria differs.

It's not "different shapes" it's the difference between advancement of lower vs upper maxilla (LF2-LF1 area)

and a more advanced maxilla both at lf2 and lf1 is not differently shaped to a maxilla less projected in both regions?

You're wrong.

Well developed maxilla in the case of bimax refers to the lower maxilla and that's the same for every ethnicity

And a well developed maxilla in general means - Both the lower and upper maxilla.

Fair enough. It's just that there are different definitions floating around there. Some people, especially in the MARPE space, refer to it as the development based on ur DNA. If you reached your genetic potential or not. Which might be more about width rather than just lf2 + lf1 projection.

And then others as what you did, I suppose. Which is still unclear but I'm guessing you meant projection and width when you said "And a well developed maxilla in general means - Both the lower and upper maxilla."

you're confusing what bimax does and what not.

Why would I be? Because I said a bimax can mimic other phenos? It's not incorrect. Obviously it's limited, but still.

TLDR - I'm an idiot, bought a course and got scammed.

There are other ways to finding about BP than getting scammed in the beginning lmao

Except the difference is I didn't seek the blackpill (active), I stumbled upon it (passive).

And buying a $40 course out of curiosity doesn't make you an idiot. It's not like losing your life savings in crypto or some shit. Big difference.

Well the fact that you even tried eating it already speaks volumes about your intelligence.

Shit, I've actually had it many times and never had any issues with it. And I've always physiologically felt better from it than other stuff. So idk Gotta listen to my body.

 

[Ogionth]

"need" but based on whose criteria? We all got different criteria.

Based on the criteria of surgeons that consider only specific people a candidate of bimax.

What are you even talking about

BIMAX does a specific thing - if you lack that specific thing = you require bimax.

Dude no offence but I just think you lack a bit of knowledge on bimax's exact function.

It's not that I'm wrong or that you're wrong. It's that the criteria differs.

No, it's that you don't understand the criteria, sorry to say.

and a more advanced maxilla both at lf2 and lf1 is not differently shaped to a maxilla less projected in both regions?

It is, but the way you defined it - saying that a well developed maxilla is different for different ethnicities is incorrect, that was the main distinction I wanted to make.

Just because some ethnicites have a less developed upper maxilla like East Asians, doesn't mean it's "developed for this ethnicity"

Fair enough. It's just that there are different definitions floating around there. Some people, especially in the MARPE space, refer to it as the development based on ur DNA. If you reached your genetic potential or not. Which might be more about width rather than just lf2 + lf1 projection.

Yeah I think that's a different topic.

And then others as what you did, I suppose. Which is still unclear but I'm guessing you meant projection and width when you said "And a well developed maxilla in general means - Both the lower and upper maxilla."

In this case, yes, if both your upper and lower maxilla are forwardly projected that your width is normal too (not sure if there are exceptions but) - as lateral expansion also provides some forward projection.

Why would I be? Because I said a bimax can mimic other phenos? It's not incorrect. Obviously it's limited, but still.

It can't.

If you're east asian, a simple bimax can't give you a well developed upper and lower maxilla which is what is true maxillary projection.

Except the difference is I didn't seek the blackpill, I stumbled upon it.

I think that's how everything works lol, you don't seek for something that you don't know about or don't know that it exists, you stumble upon it and then discover more realms in it.

And buying a $40 course out of curiosity doesn't make you an idiot. It's not like losing your life savings in crypto or some shit. Big difference.

I think it does and many others here would agree with me, if you buy a course - it just simply means you're extremely unexperienced at looksmaxxing (and thus shouldn't be giving advice to other people UNTIL you read more)

Shit, I've actually had it many times and never had any issues with it. And I've always physiologically felt better from it than other stuff. So idk Gotta listen to my body.

"Physiologically better" More so that you are trying to convince yourself that it's not stupidity because you have done it and the placebo effect may have done a very least bit but the reality is that you either ignored the bad effects or got lucky from some (salmonella etc).

You're not listening to your body, if you're eating raw meat, clearly not pleasant to eat, makes you prone towards food bourne diseases, huh?

 

[JohanBigBalle]

Based on the criteria of surgeons that consider only specific people a candidate of bimax.

What are you even talking about

BIMAX does a specific thing - if you lack that specific thing = you require bimax.
No, it's that you don't understand the criteria, sorry to say.

As in aesthetic criteria. The aesthetic you're going for.

 

[JohanBigBalle]

It is, but the way you defined it - saying that a well developed maxilla is different for different ethnicities is incorrect, that was the main distinction I wanted to make.

Just because some ethnicites have a less developed upper maxilla like East Asians, doesn't mean it's "developed for this ethnicity"
Yeah I think that's a different topic.

Ok, makes total sense

 

[Ogionth]

As in aesthetic criteria. The aesthetic you're going for.

Well, the aesthetic criteria for the whole of maxilla that everyone here is going for is what is the most pleasant to the eye - which is "a developed upper and lower maxilla" as I explained above lf1 and lf2-lf1 area.

 

[JohanBigBalle]

It can't.

If you're east asian, a simple bimax can't give you a well developed upper and lower maxilla which is what is true maxillary projection.

Yeah but that's using the most extreme example. So of course not. But in many cases besides people with flat maxillas, it can. Depending on a few factors

 

[JohanBigBalle]

Well, the aesthetic criteria for the whole of maxilla that everyone here is going for is what is the most pleasant to the eye - which is "a developed upper and lower maxilla" as I explained above lf1 and lf2-lf1 area.

And in that sense, by going off of facial depth theory, his maxilla could be better developed / more projecting sub lf1

 

[Ogionth]

And in that sense, by going off of facial depth theory, his maxilla could be better developed / more projecting sub lf1

Well but have you seen his lf1 area? or lower maxilla? it doesn't require more projection, he has an overbite which means that his lower maxilla is more projected than the mandible

 

[JohanBigBalle]

I think that's how everything works lol, you don't seek for something that you don't know about or don't know that it exists, you stumble upon it and then discover more realms in it.

Yeah kinda

I think it does and many others here would agree with me, if you buy a course - it just simply means you're extremely unexperienced at looksmaxxing (and thus shouldn't be giving advice to other people UNTIL you read more)

Well, that's pushing it. It doesn't necessarily make you an idiot, but the reason for buying is of course usually because you lack information. anyway it was awhile ago tho, but ye

 

[Ogionth]

Yeah but that's using the most extreme example. So of course not. But in many cases besides people with flat maxillas, it can. Depending on a few factors

Well, the thing is, it's not extreme because it applies to a huge group of people.

And a logical principle only requires one scenario where the logic crumbles for the whole principle to be considered invalid.

Like saying that "Bimax can mimic other ethnicities" but in no case, if you have a undeveloped upper maxilla and a developed lower maxilla, it'd give you both projected unless there are additions to the procedure.

And especially since this is not uncommon (having an under advanced upper maxilla)

 

[JohanBigBalle]

"Physiologically better" More so that you are trying to convince yourself that it's not stupidity because you have done it and the placebo effect may have done a very least bit but the reality is that you either ignored the bad effects or got lucky from some (salmonella etc).

You're not listening to your body, if you're eating raw meat, clearly not pleasant to eat, makes you prone towards food bourne diseases, huh?

Yes, ofc, you always have to take into account placebos and nocebos, but the thing is they actually work and have a detectable influence. Their effects can be very positive. In my case I feel better on raw meat so I prefer to do it.

 

[Ogionth]

Yeah kinda


Well, that's pushing it. It doesn't necessarily make you an idiot, but the reason for buying is of course usually because you lack information. anyway it was awhile ago tho, but ye

Depends how long ago, if not long enough then that would mean you're not knowledgable enough, am I right?

 

[JohanBigBalle]

Well but have you seen his lf1 area? or lower maxilla? it doesn't require more projection, he has an overbite which means that his lower maxilla is more projected than the mandible

Really? Overbite? Again idk why but I cant see the images, they dont load for me rn. But I remember it looked like class 1.

 

[Ogionth]

Yes, ofc, you always have to take into account placebos and nocebos, but the thing is they actually work and have a detectable influence. Their effects can be very positive. In my case I feel better on raw meat so I prefer to do it.

Well but you're talking from anecdotes, and I'm talking from science.

What's your evidence?

If you want to know more about why eating raw meat is a stupid idea, you can write "raw meat" in keywords and select my profile, I've had a debate with someone and you can read the scientific evidence for yourself.

If you're 25 or above, raw meat isn't just a bad idea, it's a horrible one at that.

 

[JohanBigBalle]

Like saying that "Bimax can mimic other ethnicities" but in no case, if you have a undeveloped upper maxilla and a developed lower maxilla, it'd give you both projected unless there are additions to the procedure.

Sure, but keyword "if"

And this guy doesn't.

So under the right conditions, yes bimax can do it. And it's not rare.

 

[Ogionth]

Really? Overbite? Again idk why but I cant see the images, they dont load for me rn. But I remember it looked like class 1.

Can you see it here? i think it's a very minor overbite but regardless his mandible looks slightly recessed in general so

 

[Ogionth]

Sure, but keyword "if"

And this guy doesn't.

So under the right conditions, yes bimax can do it. And it's not rare.

Well but again, if it comes to "can" in some scenarios and not "can" in all scenarios then we're in agreement about that but you still haven't justified why he should get lefort.

 

[JohanBigBalle]

Well but again, if it comes to "can" and not "will" then we're in agreement about that but you still haven't justified why he should get lefort.

I did give my reason as to why I believe that he could aesthetically benefit from a DJS (more facial depth). His lips don't project a lot, and his nose could be a bit more upturned (looks down turned rn). Overbite might be an additional (but in this case very minor) reason to justify jaw surgery.

 

[Ogionth]

I did give my reason as to why I believe that he could aesthetically benefit from a DJS (more facial depth). His lips don't project a lot, and his nose could be a bit more upturned (looks down turned rn). Overbite might be an additional (but in this case very minor) reason to justify jaw surgery.

Well you can ask him to post his full side profile and we can see for real if he requires lower maxillary projection.

But i dont think he even requires upper maxillary (that wouldn't change alot with bimax), let alone lower

 

[GetLooks101]

Well you can ask him to post his full side profile and we can see for real if he requires lower maxillary projection.

But i dont think he even requires upper maxillary (that wouldn't change alot with bimax), let alone lower

Maybe these photos will help, the first one is the normal look and the second one when doing the mewing + jutting combination. I appreciate the advice

 

[LEFORT17]

Maybe these photos will help, the first one is the normal look and the second one when doing the mewing + jutting combination. I appreciate the advice

if you dont have any serious breathing/sleeping problems let your jaw alone

 

[JohanBigBalle]

Maybe these photos will help, the first one is the normal look and the second one when doing the mewing + jutting combination. I appreciate the advice

Yeah, so your jaws are kind of short, but you obviously don't NEED DJS by any means. It depends on the aesthetic you're going for. You don't need the best side profile to be good looking. Look at for example Jorge Del Rio. He doesn't have the most amount of facial depth. I mean he isn't Jordan Barrett for example. However he has other features going for him that make that irrelevant.

But for people who don't have absolutely all the best features, forward growth tends to be a kind of OP method of making up for it / ascending u a lot. Like Mason Hull / hullo. He has kind of normie eyes + not the widest cheekbones, but his forward growth does a LOT for him. And his infra support.

For your DNA you clearly have good jaw development. So one consideration to take into account is that if you were to get DJS, you would look less like you're from the place that you're from, if that makes sense, and that might not be something that you want.

Your ramus is actually kind of tall, which I couldn't tell in the pics with bad lightning. Maybe you can train your masseters or just get gonial implants (more so for the width, not necessarily more ramus height) just to make your jaw pop a bit more. However that might make your jaw TOO wide for its length, so keep that in mind. I haven't seen your front so idk.

 

[Ogionth]

Yeah, so your jaws are kind of short, but you obviously don't NEED DJS by any means. It depends on the aesthetic you're going for. You don't need the best side profile to be good looking. Look at for example Jorge Del Rio. He doesn't have the most amount of facial depth. I mean he isn't Jordan Barrett for example. However he has other features going for him that make that irrelevant.

But for people who don't have absolutely all the best features, forward growth tends to be a kind of OP method of making up for it / ascending u a lot. Like Mason Hull / hullo. He has kind of normie eyes + not the widest cheekbones, but his forward growth does a LOT for him. And his infra support.

For your DNA you clearly have good jaw development. So one consideration to take into account is that if you were to get DJS, you would look less like you're from the place that you're from, if that makes sense, and that might not be something that you want.

Your ramus is actually kind of tall, which I couldn't tell in the pics with bad lightning. Maybe you can train your masseters or just get gonial implants (more so for the width, not necessarily more ramus height) just to make your jaw pop a bit more. However that might make your jaw TOO wide for its length, so keep that in mind. I haven't seen your front so idk.

You see, I was right about his maxilla

 

[JohanBigBalle]

You see, I was right about his maxilla

Well idk what ur point is?

My stance is still that he can do it and it would be an aesthetic improvement if he wanted to have a more projected lower third which includes the lf1 part of the maxilla.

Why would he need it? He wouldn't, and I never meant to say that he NEEDS it. But cosmetic surgery often isn't about what you need so to speak, but more so about what you want. And that's the beauty of it. It doesn't always have to be about correction of incorrect aesthetics (under- or maldevelopment), but it can also just be about perfection and mimicking better aesthetics even if you're already correctly developed (or different aesthetics for that matter).

He doesn't aesthetically depend on DJS, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't improve him. Especially "to improve my (his) side profile" which was the original question.

But either way, our bro here hasn't had his wisdom teeth erupted, meaning that they don't fit, meaning = some underdevelopment ANYWAY.

But im not gonna go in circles with you about this again. I've said what I needed to say.

 

[GetLooks101]

As you both seem pretty knowledgeable and I would prefer a surgery with a real change in the bones over implants for example, what would you think about just doing a BSSO or BSSO + genioplasty?

 

[Ogionth]

Well idk what ur point is?

My stance is still that he can do it and it would be an aesthetic improvement if he wanted to have a more projected lower third which includes the lf1 part of the maxilla.

Why would he need it? He wouldn't, and I never meant to say that he NEEDS it. But cosmetic surgery often isn't about what you need so to speak, but more so about what you want. And that's the beauty of it. It doesn't always have to be about correction of incorrect aesthetics (under- or maldevelopment), but it can also just be about perfection and mimicking better aesthetics even if you're already correctly developed (or different aesthetics for that matter).

He doesn't aesthetically depend on DJS, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't improve him. Especially "to improve my (his) side profile" which was the original question.

But either way, our bro here hasn't had his wisdom teeth erupted, meaning that they don't fit, meaning = some underdevelopment ANYWAY.

But im not gonna go in circles with you about this again. I've said what I needed to say.

No.

You're in a looksmax forum, here we define "need" as not having the most aesthetically pleasing stage of that bone development.

The way u are tryna define it, no one really "needs" bimax, if they don't have restricted airways and that's not the point here.


Stop arguing semantics where it's obvious what we mean by the words here, and focus on the matter of topic.

You were wrong about the lefort and still are.