The age of Aisha and it’s denial by believers due to modern sensibilities

PrinceLuenLeoncur said:
lol there’s no proof my relation has flaws I could send you an entire off dissertations worth of shit on Islam being false and inconsistent

Joke is if my religions false then yous is false as yours relies on mine to be true go follow your Quran S 5:47-48 5:68 2:41 etc etc
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oh youre that dumb,sry buddy
 
jbmaxxer prophet
 
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Reactions: LTNUser
noobkiller999 said:
retard christcuck i clearly said that theyre not muslim:lul::lul:
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They are your sisters they are so sexy, this is her without her burkha on no wonder she wanted to get naked look at her body yummy she wants to let that shit hang and be free for all to see.
 
PrinceLuenLeoncur said:
They are your sisters they are so sexy, this is her without her burkha on no wonder she wanted to get naked look at her body yummy she wants to let that shit hang and be free for all to see.
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Sad Happy Hour GIF
 
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noobkiller999 said:
ofc cuz ur women are whores :lul::lul:
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Western Christian white woman yes they are whores

I won’t deny it because white women are whores. Thankfully I’m not a cumskin and my race of women actually practice the RELGION properly and aren’t whores. But yes if you see a white “Christian” which let’s be honest is an oxymoron in 2025 then yes SHES A WHORE
 
Shrek2OnDvD said:
Disclaimer: This thread does not promote nor condone hatred, discrimination or violence against Muslims. I absolutely condemn bigotry in all forms. It is not my intention to insult or denigrate anyone. Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs. This thread was made to analyse and criticise unsubstantiated claims about the age of Aisha

Background
There has been an intense discussion and debate regarding the age of Aisha, the favourite wife of the Prophet Muhammad, at the time of her marriage and consummation. Traditional Sunni Muslim sources and Hadith state that she was around 6 to 7 years old at marriage, 9 at consummation, and 18 at widowhood. She did not bear any children.

Why does this matter?
However, in light of modern and western sensibilities, a growing body of Muslims today question or outright deny these controversial Hadith. For many it is uncomfortable to acknowledge them. Justifying the marriage of a 6 year old to a man decades older than her, can create a profound sense of cognitive dissonance. Unfortunately, in an attempt to defend their position, some believers may ultimately decide to deny authentic Hadith, which unknowingly sets a dangerous precedent and puts major Islamic sources into question.

In this thread I will discuss the inaccurate and misleading claims often made about the age of Aisha and break them down, one by one.

(All sources will be listed, including references to the Quran, Sahih Hadith, Seerah, Ulema, etc)


1st Objection: All these traditions are narrated by only one person i.e. Hisham bin 'Urwa and none from Medina narrated it
But this objection is false.

The traditions about Aisha's age at the time of marriage have been narrated by multiple alternative chains of narrations, including the people of Medina too.

Sheikh Haddad is a Sunni Hadith Master, and he replied to this objection as following (link):

“Al-Zuhri also reports it from `Urwa, from `A'isha; so does `Abd Allah ibn Dhakwan, both major Madanis. So is the Tabi`i Yahya al-Lakhmi who reports it from her in the Musnad and in Ibn Sa`d's Tabaqat. So is Abu Ishaq Sa`d ibn Ibrahim who reports it from Imam al-Qasim ibn Muhammad, one of the Seven Imams of Madina, from `A'isha. All the narratives of this event have been reported. In addition to the above four Madinese Tabi`in narrators, Sufyan ibn `Uyayna from Khurasan and `Abd Allah ibn Muhammad ibn Yahya from Tabarayya in Palestine both report it.”
Here is also a list of 17 authentic Hadith, which tell that:

  • Aisha was married at the age of 6,
  • And the marriage was consummated when she was 9 years old.
  • And 4 of these Hadith also tell that Aisha was 18 years old when Muhammad died.
  • Moreover, few of them are narrated by other people than Hisham (i.e. people who deny Aisha's age of 9 years at the time of consummation, they falsely claim that all such Hadith are narrated by Hisham only).
The List:

  1. Sunan Ibn Majah, 1877 [marriage at 7, consummation at 9, age of 'Aisha when Muhammad died = 18. Not narrated by Hisham]
  2. Sahih Muslim, 1422c 9 [marriage at 7, consummation at 9, age of 'Aisha when Muhammad died = 18. Not narrated by Hisham]
  3. Sahih Muslim [marriage at 6, consummation at 9, age of 'Aisha when Muhammad died = 18]
  4. Sunan Nisai, 3258 [consummation at 9, age of 'Aisha when Muhammad died = 18]
  5. Sunan Ibn Majah, 1876 [consummation at 9, age of 'Aisha when Muhammad died = 18]
  6. Sunan Abu Dawud, 2121 [marriage at 7 or 6, consummation at 9]
  7. Sunan Nisai, 3256 [marriage at 7, consummation at 9]
  8. Sunan Nisai, 3378 [marriage at 6, consummation at 9]
  9. Sunan Nisai, 3257 [consummation at 9, stayed with Muhammad for 9 years till he died]
  10. Sunan Nisai, 3255 [marriage at 6, consummation at 9]
  11. Sahih Bukhari, 5134 [marriage at 6, consummation at 9, stayed with Muhammad for 9 years till he died]
  12. Sahih Bukhari, 3894 [marriage at 6, consummation at 9]
  13. Sahih Bukhari, 5133 [marriage at 6, consummation at 9, stayed with Muhammad for 9 years till he died]
  14. Sahih Bukhari, 5158 [marriage at 6, consummation at 9, stayed with Muhammad for 9 years till he died]
  15. Sahih Bukhari, 3896 [marriage at 6, consummation at 9]
  16. Sahih Muslim, 1422a [marriage at 6, consummation at 9]
  17. Sahih Muslim, 1422b [marriage at 6, consummation at 9]
​


2nd Objection: Revelation time of surah al-Qamar​
According to Sahih Bukhari (link), Aisha explains she was a "playful girl" (jariyatun al-'abu لَجَارِيَةٌ أَلْعَبُ) when Surah (chapter) al-Qamar of the Quran was revealed. This group of modern apologists claim that Surah al-Qamar was revealed 9 years before Hijrah, which makes Aisha to be much older than 6 years at the time of marriage.

But they are wrong as there is no proof present that Surah al-Qamar was revealed 9 years before Hijrah. Sheikh Haddad refutes them by stating (link):



“The hadith Masters, Sira historians, and Qur'anic commentators agree that the splitting of the moon took place about five years before the Holy Prophet's (upon him blessings and peace) Hijra to Madina. Thus it is confirmed that our Mother `Aisha was born between seven and eight years before the Hijra and the words that she was a jariya or little girl five years before the Hijra match the fact that her age at the time Surat al-Qamar was revealed was around 2 or 3. A two year old is not an infant. A two year old is able to run around, which is what jariya means. As for "the comments of the experts" they concur on 6 or 7 as the age of marriage and 9 as the age of cohabitation.”

3rd Objection: Battle of Badr and Uhud​
This apologetic argument aims to make the claim that Aisha was at the Battles of Badr and Uhud, and that since standard practice at the time disallowed anyone under 15 from joining the battlefield, she could not have been younger than this.

Shaykh Haddad responds to this apologetic argument (link):

“First, the prohibition applied to combatants. It applied neither to non-combatant boys nor to non-combatant girls and women. Second, `A'isha did not participate in Badr at all but bade farewell to the combatants as they were leaving Madina, as narrated by Muslim in his Sahih. On the day of Uhud (year 3), Anas, at the time only twelve or thirteen years old, reports seeing an eleven-year old `A'isha and his mother Umm Sulaym having tied up their dresses and carrying water skins back and forth to the combatants, as narrated by al-Bukhari and Muslim.”

4th Objection: Age of Asma​
One da’if (weak) hadith narrated from al-Zinad and recorded in the works of some medieval scholars, including al-Dhahabi (link), states that Aisha's older sister Asma was ten years older than her. This has been combined with improbable information about Asma being 100 years old at the time of her death in 73 AH to calculate that Aisha was eighteen or nineteen at the time of her marriage consummation (1 AH or 2 AH - (73 - 100) - 10).

Shaykh Haddad (link) and the IslamQA (link) website both independently criticise this approach as relying on a single narrator, who most scholars regard as weak, and note that a hadith by a more reliable chain from the same narrator gives a broader range for the age difference between the sisters. Both also note that al-Dhahabi too gave the vaguer opinion that Asma was "ten or more" years older than Aisha.

5th Objection: Tabari's account of Abu Bakr's children and wives​
Apologists claim that al-Tabari recorded that Aisha was born in the pre-islamic period, and thus could not have been less than 14 tears old (Reference: Al-Tabari, Vol. 4, Pg. 50, Arabic, Dar al-fikr, Beirut, 1979)

However, al-Tabari's own account reports at least five times that Aisha was around 6-7 years old during marriage and the marriage was consummated 3 years later (link).

Furthermore, Shaykh Gibril Haddad (link) says that the initial passage mentioned is misinterpreted, stating:



"Al-Tabari nowhere reports that 'Abu Bakr's four children were all born in Jahiliyya' but only that Abu Bakr married both their mothers in Jahiliyya, Qutayla bint Sa`d and Umm Ruman, who bore him four children in all, two each, `A'isha being the daughter of Umm Ruman."

6th Objection: Time of Umar's conversion to Islam​
This argument draws on the Seerah (Biography of the Prophet) to claim that since Aisha converted to Islam before Umar she could not have been born during the first year of Islam (link).

However, even if the claim Aisha converted to Islam before Umar was true, it does not mean this took place during the first year of Islam, since Umar converted in 617 AD, about 4 years after Aisha’s birth in 613 AD (link). Furthermore, Aisha never remembered a time before when her family wasn't Muslim (Sahih Bukhari)

Besides disputing the claim that Ibn Hisham reported that Aisha accepted Islam quite sometime before `Umar ibn al-Khattab, Shaykh Haddad also casts doubt on the claim stating (link):



“Nowhere does Ibn Hisham say this. Rather, Ibn Hisham lists `A'isha among 'those that accepted Islam because of Abu Bakr.' This does not mean that she embraced Islam during the first year of Islam. Nor does it mean that she necessarily embraced Islam before `Umar (year 6) although she was born the previous year (year 7 before the Hijra) although it is understood she will automatically follow her father's choice even before the age of reason.”

7th Objection: Tabari's account of Abu Bakr's migration to Habshah​
This argument claims that al-Tabari states that when Abu Bakr was planning to migrate to Abyssinia (Ethiopia), he spoke to Mut`am, with whose son, Jabayr, Aisha was engaged. This migration occurred eight years before hijrah, at which time Aisha had only just been born if she consummated her marriage to Muhammad at the age of 9 or 10.

Proponents of this claim admit they have no primary source, which originated in Kandhalvi's Urdu booklet (link). Shayk Haddad responds that "there is no mention of emigration in Tabari's account of Abu Bakr's discussion with Mut`im" and "there had been only some preliminary talk, not a formal arrangement".

8th Objection: The meaning of bikr​
This argument cites a hadith in Ibn Hanbal's Musnad saying that Khaulah suggested Aisha to Muhammad as a virgin (bikr) he could marry. The claim is that bikr would not be used for a young girl (link).

However, there are multiple sahih hadith narrations of a highly relevant conversation between Muhammad and Jabir in which bikr (virgin) is clearly compatible with jariyah (young girl).

Narrated Jabir: "Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said to me, "Have you got married O Jabir?" I replied, "Yes." He asked "What, a virgin [bikr] or a matron [thayyib]?" I replied, "Not a virgin but a matron." He said, "Why did you not marry a young girl [jariyah] who would have fondled with you?”

Sahih Bukhari 5:59:382

Shaykh Haddad (link) says regarding the claim, "This is ignorant nonsense, bikr means a virgin girl, a girl who has never been married even if her age is 0 and there is no unclarity here whatsoever.".

9th Objection: Fatima's age difference​
This claim is that according to ibn Hajar, Fatima was five years older than Aisha and Muhammad was 35 years old when Fatima was born. Therefore, based on this claim, Aisha must have been a teenager at the time her marriage was consummated.

However, the proponent of this claim (link) has combined and selectively quoted conflicting sources. Shaykh Haddad responds (link):

“Ibn Hajar mentions two versions: (1) al-Waqidi's narration that Fatima was born when the Prophet was 35; and (2) Ibn `Abd al-Barr's narration that she was born when he was 41, approximately one year more or less before Prophethood, and about five years before `A'isha was born. The latter version matches the established dates.”

10th Objection: Hadith said Aisha had reached puberty​
This argument is based on a mistranslated hadith, Sahih Bukhari 1:8:465, which in one English translation states that Aisha had seen her parents follow Islam since the age of puberty, and not a day passed by without Muhammad visiting them.



“Narrated `Aisha: (the wife of the Prophet) I had seen my parents following Islam since I attained the age of puberty. Not a day passed but the Prophet (ﷺ) visited us, both in the mornings and evenings[...]”



However, the word أَعْقِلْ means thoughts or reasoning, but the translator, Muhsin Khan, has used the word 'puberty'. The meaning rather is simply that 'Aisha was aware that her parents were following Islam. A literal translation would be "I was not aware of my parents other than that the two of them both acknowledged the religion". The exact same Arabic phrase is translated correctly by the same translator in another narration of the same hadith (link).

11th Objection: Hadith in which Aisha menstruated​
This argument is also based on a mistranslated hadith.

Sunan Abu Dawud 4915 (Ahmad Hasan numbering; 4933 Dar-us-Salam):

Narrated Aisha, Ummul Mu'minin: The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) married me when I was seven or six. When we came to Medina, some women came. according to Bishr's version: Umm Ruman came to me when I was swinging. They took me, made me prepared and decorated me. I was then brought to the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ), and he took up cohabitation with me when I was nine. She halted me at the door, and I burst into laughter. Abu Dawud said: That is to say: I menstruated, and I was brought in a house, and there were some women of the Ansari in it. They said: With good luck and blessing. The tradition of one of them has been included in the other.



Sunan Abu Dawud 4915 (Ahmad Hasan Ref)

Ahmad Hasan mistranslates Abu Dawud's comment as "That is to say: I menstruated".

Aisha's phrase "I burst into laughter" is fa-qultu heeh heeh (فَقُلْتُ هِيهْ هِيهْ), "And I said heh, heh". The Dar-us-Salam English-Arabic edition of Sunan Abu Dawud translated by Nasiruddin al-Khattab (Hadith 4933) renders Aisha's words here: "She made me stand at the door and I started to breathe deeply" (Dar-us-Salam does not include Abu Dawud's comment).

Abu Dawud's comment is "ay tanaffasat (أَىْ تَنَفَّسَتْ)", which is "That is to say 'I breathed'". The verb nun-fa-sin is used here in Arabic form V with the ta prefix and shadda (doubled) middle letter, which Lane's Lexicon says means "breathed".

12th Objection: Aisha remembered the migration setting out to Abyssinia​
Another hadith has been commonly misinterpreted in order to claim that Aisha remembered Muhammad coming to Abu Bakr when it was time to migrate to Abyssinia (modern day Ethiopia). This forced migration occurred due to what Urwa b. al-Zubayr in his first letter describes as the first persecution (al-fitnah al-ūlā) in Mecca, before the migration some years later to Medina.

Response:

The hadith itself does not state which migration it relates too.

Narrated Aisha: Rarely did the Prophet (ﷺ) fail to visit Abu Bakr's house everyday, either in the morning or in the evening. When the permission for migration to Medina was granted, all of a sudden the Prophet (ﷺ) came to us at noon and Abu Bakr was informed, who said, "Certainly the Prophet (ﷺ) has come for some urgent matter." The Prophet (ﷺ) said to Abu Bakr, when the latter entered "Let nobody stay in your home." Abu Bakr said, "O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)! There are only my two daughters (namely `Aisha and Asma') present." The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "I feel (am informed) that I have been granted the permission for migration." Abu Bakr said, "I will accompany you, O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)!" The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "You will accompany me." Abu Bakr then said "O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)! I have two she-camels I have prepared specially for migration, so I offer you one of them. The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "I have accepted it on the condition that I will pay its price."

Sahih Bukhari 3:34:348



Another hadith shows clearly that the above hadith actually refers to the migration to Medina, not Abyssinia. Notice the similar phrasing about Muhammad coming to Abu Bakr at noon after being granted permission to migrate. At the end of the quote, Medina is mentioned.



Narrated `Aisha: Abu Bakr asked the Prophet (ﷺ) to allow him to go out (of Mecca) when he was greatly annoyed (by the infidels). But the Prophet (ﷺ) said to him, "Wait." Abu Bakr said, O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)! Do you hope that you will be allowed (to migrate)?" Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) replied, "I hope so." So Abu Bakr waited for him till one day Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) came at noon time and addressed him saying "Let whoever is present with you, now leave you." Abu Bakr said, "None is present but my two daughters." The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "Have you noticed that I have been allowed to go out (to migrate)?" Abu Bakr said, "O Allah's Apostle, I would like to accompany you." The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "You will accompany me." Abu Bakr said, "O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)! I have got two she-camels which I had prepared and kept ready for (our) going out." So he gave one of the two (she-camels) to the Prophet (ﷺ) and it was Al-Jad`a. They both rode and proceeded till they reached the Cave at the mountain of Thaur where they hid themselves. Amir bin Fuhaira was the slave of `Abdullah bin at-Tufail bin Sakhbara `Aisha's brother from her mother's side. Abu Bakr had a milch she-camel. Amir used to go with it (i.e. the milch she-camel) in the afternoon and come back to them before noon by setting out towards them in the early morning when it was still dark and then he would take it to the pasture so that none of the shepherds would be aware of his job. When the Prophet (and Abu Bakr) went away (from the Cave), he (i.e. 'Amir) too went along with them and they both used to make him ride at the back of their camels in turns till they reached Medina. [...]

Sahih Bukhari 5:59:419

13th Objection: The prophet Muhammad wanted a grown-up wife for his children​
Pakistani Muslim Scholar Ghamidi also disputes the claim that Aisha was 9 at the time of consummation of marriage. His argument is that the Prophet desired a mature and grown-up wife to manage his household affairs and care for his young daughters. According to Ghamidi, Aisha's age at the time of Nikah was 16, and the consummation of marriage occurred when she was 19 years old.

However, this explanation seems weak. If we were to accept Aisha's age as 16 at the time of Nikah, a 16-year-old woman could have easily taken care of the children and the household. Why, then, did the Prophet wait three more years (until she turned 19) to bring her into his home? If he truly needed a woman to run the household, he could have done so immediately after the Nikah and consummated the marriage. The three-year delay raises questions.

Furthermore, the Prophet performed Nikah with Aisha even before marrying Sawdah. If Aisha was indeed 16 years old, there would have been no need for him to marry an older woman like Sawdah when a 16-year-old Aisha could have sufficiently taken care of his daughters and household.


14th Objection: Verse 4:6 is proof that pre-pubescent girls cannot be married​
This group of modern apologists also uses verse 4:6 as an argument to deny marriage to minor girls in Islam.

Verse 4:6:

وَٱبْتَلُوا۟ ٱلْيَتَٰمَىٰ حَتَّىٰٓ إِذَا بَلَغُوا۟ ٱلنِّكَاحَ فَإِنْ ءَانَسْتُم مِّنْهُمْ رُشْدًا فَٱدْفَعُوٓا۟ إِلَيْهِمْ أَمْوَٰلَهُمْ

And test the orphans until when they reached the age of marriage (Nikah), then if you perceive in them sound judgement then deliver to them their wealth.

Modern Muslim preachers claim that one gets sound judgement about his wealth when one is already an adult person. Thus, this means that Islam prescribed that one can marry only after becoming an adult.

Response:

Please take note that the word “Nikah" carries a double meaning in the Arabic language:

  • In Islamic Sharia, "Nikah" is a specific terminology with the meaning of "marriage".
  • However, in its literal sense in the Arabic language, "Nikah" refers to "sexual intercourse".
Quran 17:34
وَلَا تَقْرَبُوا۟ مَالَ ٱلْيَتِيمِ إِلَّا بِٱلَّتِى هِىَ أَحْسَنُ حَتَّىٰ يَبْلُغَ أَشُدَّهُۥ ۚ

Come not nigh to the orphan's property except to improve it, until he attains the age of full strength۔

In this verse, the term "أَشُدَّهُ" (full strength) denotes the age when young boys and girls begin to experience the desire or strength for sexual intercourse.

Please take note of the following points:

  • Regarding Shar'i Nikah (marriage), there is no requirement for reaching the state of أَشُدَّهُ (full strength or sexual maturity).
  • The evidence supporting this is that Muhammad himself performed the Shar'i Nikah with Aisha when she was only 6 years old.
  • It is not customary to test a 6-year-old child for handling their property, as they lack both أَشُدَّهُ (strength/desire) and the necessary "sound judgment" to manage their assets.
Therefore, the concept of أَشُدَّهُ (strength) has no bearing on Shar'i Nikah, given that Muhammad married 'Aisha at the age of 6.

Even when Aisha came to Muhammad's house for the consummation of their marriage at the age of 9, she still lacked the mental acuity required to manage any property or business, as evident from the following hadith:

Sahih Bukhari 6130:



Narrated `Aisha: I used to play with the dolls in the presence of the Prophet, and my girl friends also used to play with me. When Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) used to enter (my dwelling place) they used to hide themselves, but the Prophet would call them to join and play with me.

Fourthly, according to Islamic Sharia:

  • When a girl reaches puberty, then she herself gets the right to give her consent for the marriage or to deny the marriage.
  • But if she is a minor or prepubescent girl, then her father/guardian can wed her to anyone, even without her consent (link).
  • And if she is prepubescent and also an orphan, then her guardian has the right to wed her with himself (even without her consent), in order to get her property and wealth.
It is evident from the following Hadith:

Sahih Bukhari 5064:



Narrated 'Urwa: that he asked `Aisha about the Statement of Allah: 'If you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly with the orphan girls, then marry (other) women of your choice, two or three or four; but if you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or (the captives) that your right hands possess. That will be nearer to prevent you from doing injustice.' (4.3) `Aisha said, "O my nephew! (This Verse has been revealed in connection with) an orphan girl under the guardianship of her guardian who is attracted by her wealth and beauty and intends to marry her with a Mahr (bride-dowry) less than what other women of her standard deserve. So they (such guardians) have been forbidden to marry them unless they do justice to them and give them their full Mahr, and they are ordered to marry other women instead of them."

And it is also evident from the following Quranic Verse:

Quran 4:127:

You also read them (the guardians) in the Book concerning orphaned women (in your charge) to whom you deny their ordained rights and yet wish to take them in marriage, as well as in respect of helpless children, that you should be just in the matter of orphans." The good you do is known to God



And the orphan girl, in the above tradition, is a small orphan girl who has not yet reached puberty. It is due to the reason that:

  • Firstly, after becoming an adult, the guardian cannot compel her to marry him without her consent.
  • Secondly, after becoming an adult, the guardian cannot marry her by giving her less than a standard dowry (i.e. Haq Mehr).
  • Thirdly, after becoming an adult, she will get full control of her money and property too, and thus the guardian cannot take control of her property any more.
  • Fourthly, after becoming an adult, she is no more considered an orphan.
Moreover, Islamqa.com, one of the largest Fatwa sites on the internet, also refutes these modern Muslim preachers regarding verse 4:6 (link):



This verse 4:6 explains that an orphan’s money is given to him/her after they reach puberty and attain sound judgement. What’s meant by sound judgment is sound management of money. This can only happen after puberty.



“Reaching Nikah” mentioned in the verse means reaching puberty which can be known through sings such as menstruation for females and the growth of pubic hair. The verse used the expression “reaching Nikah” to actually mean “reaching puberty” because in most cases, it’s adults who perform Nikah. But this doesn’t mean that it’s not possible for non-adults to perform Nikah, which is permissible as proven by the Quran, Sunnah and the consensus of scholars. Plus, the same Surah and the same context of verses proves it (the permissibility of child marriage). (The verse that speaks about giving an orphan his money when he/she reaches Nikah is verse no.6) Verse no.3 says: “And if you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly with the orphangirls, then marry (other) women of your choice, two or three, or four but if you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one or (the captives and the slaves) that your right hands possess. ”.



This verse proves it’s allowed to marry an orphan. And an orphan cannot be an adult. It’s reported in Sahih Bukhari Hadith no. 2494: “Narrated Urwah that he asked `Aisha regarding the Verse: 'If you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly with the orphan girls, marry (other) women of your choice.' (4.3) `Aisha said, "It is about an orphan girl under the custody of her guardian who being attracted by her wealth and beauty wants to marry her with Mahr less than other women of her status. So such guardians were forbidden to marry them unless they treat them justly by giving them their full Mahr. Then the people sought the verdict of Allah's Apostle for such cases, whereupon Allah revealed: 'They ask your instruction concerning women..' (4.127) “https://sunnah.com/bukhari:6965



Ibn Hajar (d.1449 AD) commented on this Hadith saying: “This shows it’s allowed to marry orphans who haven’t reached puberty. Because after puberty they can’t be called orphans.”

Contemporary Muslim Scholars, who accept that Aisha's age was 6 at the time of marriage and not 16​
  • Islam QA article on 'Aisha's age (2nd Article): Shaykh Muhammad Saalih al-Munajjid, Member of Senior Scholar Council KSA owner of well-known site islamqa.info fatwa “Refutation of the lie that the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) married ‘Aa’ishah when she was 18 years old ”.​
  • Islamweb.Net: It firmly establishes Aisha’s age at 6/9. “Qatar Ministry of Religious Affairs, Fatwa Team: On this site, there is a committee of specialists that is responsible for preparing, checking and approving the Fatwas. This committee comprises a group of licentiate graduates from the Islamic University, Al-Imaam Muhammad Bin Sa’oud Islamic University in Saudi Arabia, and graduates who studied Islamic sciences from scholars at Mosques and other Islamic educational institutes in Yemen and Mauritania. This special committee is headed by Dr. ‘Abdullaah Al-Faqeeh, a specialist in Jurisprudence and Arabic language.” Responds to an unnamed article that uses asma and engagement arguments. 2/12/2012​
  • Yaqeen Institute (USA) 2018: It addresses Hisham, Asma, Fatima, Uhud, Surah 54/Moon​
  • Islamiqate.Com 2019: Though not a fatwa, it concerns a named scholar from Al-Azhar who also wrote about Badr & Uhud, Asma, Tabari, Fatima, Hisham, and migration to Abyssinia.​
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not touching this one
 
arabcell said:
shias:

same people who tried working with the mongols
Same people who worked with the crusaders

and same people who consistently get smashed and brought back to reality.
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I’m not Shia, I just agree with their view on this matter.

And yeah, Shias often work with the enemies of Islam, out of spite against the Sunnis.
 
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Gengar said:
I’m not Shia, I just agree with their view on this matter.

And yeah, Shias often work with the enemies of Islam, out of spite against the Sunnis.
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whats ur aqeedah
 
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PrinceLuenLeoncur said:
lol there’s no proof my relation has flaws I could send you an entire off dissertations worth of shit on Islam being false and inconsistent

Joke is if my religions false then yous is false as yours relies on mine to be true go follow your Quran S 5:47-48 5:68 2:41 etc etc
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Low iq + retarded argument, it's not talking about todays gospel, rather the original one which was revealed to Jesus
 
Lockz said:
Low iq + retarded argument, it's not talking about todays gospel, rather the original one which was revealed to Jesus
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The orginal one which when asked where it is what was in it and how it got lost every Muslims response is 🤷‍♂️.


Yeah so you can’t even say the “orginal” gospel and “today’s gospel” aren’t the same thing because you don’t know what’s in it

So your the retard making assertions with no evidence no credibility no logical sense at all.

The evidence shows the gospel today is the same gospel from 2k years ago it’s that simple you can cry because your pedophile prophet was ignorant about it but that’s on you. And your GAYran says in sura 2:41 and 5:47-48 that we ought to follow our bibles etc so keep crying and we have bibles from 300 years before your gay prophet such as codex Vacticanus, codex alexandrus and codex Sinaticus all corresponding to the current Bible I have in my bedroom today all OLDER THAN YOUR GAY CULT AND PROPHET.

Now stfu BITCH.

@iblamexyz @Vazelrr @subhuman1996 this is how you cuckhold Mohammed nonsensical copium using their own stupid RELGION, using historical sources and using our ancient codexes aka old bibles. Don’t let them lie to you about shit make them face the fact that their RELGION is illocial and inconsistent
 
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PrinceLuenLeoncur said:
The orginal one which when asked where it is what was in it and how it got lost every Muslims response is 🤷‍♂️.


Yeah so you can’t even say the “orginal” gospel and “today’s gospel” aren’t the same thing because you don’t know what’s in it

So your the retard making assertions with no evidence no credibility no logical sense at all.

The evidence shows the gospel today is the same gospel from 2k years ago it’s that simple you can cry because your pedophile prophet was ignorant about it but that’s on you. And your GAYran says in sura 2:41 and 5:47-48 that we ought to follow our bibles etc so keep crying and we have bibles from 300 years before your gay prophet such as codex Vacticanus, codex alexandrus and codex Sinaticus all corresponding to the current Bible I have in my bedroom today all OLDER THAN YOUR GAY CULT AND PROPHET.

Now stfu BITCH.

@iblamexyz @Vazelrr @subhuman1996 this is how you cuckhold Mohammed nonsensical copium using their own stupid RELGION, using historical sources and using our ancient codexes aka old bibles. Don’t let them lie to you about shit make them face the fact that their RELGION is illocial and inconsistent
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mirin
 
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iblamexyz said:
I been on my ortherdox arc so I already seen this

not saying this to be annoying ''I alr seen this'' 🤓

but I hope ur mirin that I alr seen this
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Wow


I am lost for words which is very rare


God bless you brotha 🥲

God has blessed yoiiiii
 
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PrinceLuenLeoncur said:
The orginal one which when asked where it is what was in it and how it got lost every Muslims response is 🤷‍♂️.


Yeah so you can’t even say the “orginal” gospel and “today’s gospel” aren’t the same thing because you don’t know what’s in it

So your the retard making assertions with no evidence no credibility no logical sense at all.

The evidence shows the gospel today is the same gospel from 2k years ago it’s that simple you can cry because your pedophile prophet was ignorant about it but that’s on you. And your GAYran says in sura 2:41 and 5:47-48 that we ought to follow our bibles etc so keep crying and we have bibles from 300 years before your gay prophet such as codex Vacticanus, codex alexandrus and codex Sinaticus all corresponding to the current Bible I have in my bedroom today all OLDER THAN YOUR GAY CULT AND PROPHET.

Now stfu BITCH.

@iblamexyz @Vazelrr @subhuman1996 this is how you cuckhold Mohammed nonsensical copium using their own stupid RELGION, using historical sources and using our ancient codexes aka old bibles. Don’t let them lie to you about shit make them face the fact that their RELGION is illocial and inconsistent
Click to expand...

You retarded little incel cunt

Firstly, the authors of the New Testament are unknown. We know nothing about them besides their first name. Also, the whole Bible was finished after the alleged resurrection of Jesus, meaning he wasn’t even walking around with a Bible in his hand (duh). On top of that, the original language was Greek, which is quite interesting since Jesus spoke Aramaic, meaning translation mistakes are a guarantee and 99.9% possible.

Nextly, citing the Codex Vaticanus (or any other one for that matter) is a dog water argument, and you are basically undermining your own claim. Those codices date centuries after Jesus, meaning you can’t use them as evidence for an original gospel.

Your arguments are logically and historically flawed, but then again you did study Abrahamic religions for a whole year.
Go again retard
 
Lockz said:
You retarded little incel cunt

Firstly, the authors of the New Testament are unknown. We know nothing about them besides their first name. Also, the whole Bible was finished after the alleged resurrection of Jesus, meaning he wasn’t even walking around with a Bible in his hand (duh). On top of that, the original language was Greek, which is quite interesting since Jesus spoke Aramaic, meaning translation mistakes are a guarantee and 99.9% possible.

Nextly, citing the Codex Vaticanus (or any other one for that matter) is a dog water argument, and you are basically undermining your own claim. Those codices date centuries after Jesus, meaning you can’t use them as evidence for an original gospel.

Your arguments are logically and historically flawed, but then again you did study Abrahamic religions for a whole year.
Go again retard
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We know who the authors are of the New Testament we have tradition that says how it was since the 1st century where each book all over the world was known. If the books authors weren’t known you’d have each book being attributed to different authors but that’s not the case

Tertullian even mocked and chastised somebody for trying to make fruaded gospels and one of the things he pointed out is how unbelievable it is and inconceivable it would be to fall for such a ploy without any known authors.

This implies logically that knowledge of the authors was in circulation already. And it was normal in 1st century Roman accounts at the time to not write “By the way this is from me mr John Markus” yeah people didn’t write like that in the first century this is why you see Plutarch writing similar about various things.

So yeah you failed or you can watch this video


lmfao I read the Septuigant which is translated str8 from the Greek to my English but the Greeks who are still Christian today mind you still read the exact same book as I but obvs in the orginal language so yeah we still have the Greek bibles I mean what do you think we translate from you fucking moron :hnghn:. I mean do you think shit can’t be translated to be understood in other languages? You stupid cunt 🤣:lul::lul: Islam IQ moment

Those books are COMPLETED compiled bibles however we have manuscripts from before then dating to the 2nd century and reason why we have none from the 1st is due to the manuscripts being written on Papyri which is bio degradable before that point but we have evidence of the early church fathers citing the bible because we have clement of Rome, Irineas and Polycarp (both LITERAL DECIPLES OF APOSTLE JOHN) quoting directly from the bible in the 1st century


Clement Writes to the Corinthians quoting Matthew, Luke, Romans, 1 Corinthians, Hebrews, James, and 1 Peter.
  • He says:
    “Take up the epistle of the blessed Paul the Apostle” (1 Clem 47:1).
    → This shows awareness of and reverence for Paul’s letters.

Ignatius of Antioch
(c. AD 107)
  • Quotes or alludes to Matthew, John, and several Pauline epistles.
  • In Philadelphians 5, he warns:
    “Do nothing without the bishop and the presbyters, and the Gospel of Jesus Christ.”
    → He assumes a written “Gospel” already circulating with authority.

Polycarp of Smyrna
c. AD 110–135)

In his Letter to the Philippians, he quotes Ephesians, Galatians, Philippians, 1 and 2 Corinthians, Romans, 1 Timothy, 1 Peter, 1 John, and Matthew.
  • He explicitly calls Paul’s letters “Scripture” and treats them as divinely inspired.

Even the Bible alludes to this which was written between 40-65AD.
2 Peter 3:15–16 refers to Paul’s letters as “Scripture”:
“…just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him… There are some things in them hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures.”





So yeah huge L for you. Your arguments failed miserably you failed brutally this is what Islam gets you to. Retardation and homosexuality and low IQ talking points your own GAY prophet even said he trusts in my book your own gay faggot god says to him in sura 10:94 if he’s in doubt go speak to the Christians and our book. Fucking inconsistent Arabian sandnigger cult

@iblamexyz @Vazelrr
 
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Shrek2OnDvD said:
Disclaimer: This thread does not promote nor condone hatred, discrimination or violence against Muslims. I absolutely condemn bigotry in all forms. It is not my intention to insult or denigrate anyone. Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs. This thread was made to analyse and criticise unsubstantiated claims about the age of Aisha

Background
There has been an intense discussion and debate regarding the age of Aisha, the favourite wife of the Prophet Muhammad, at the time of her marriage and consummation. Traditional Sunni Muslim sources and Hadith state that she was around 6 to 7 years old at marriage, 9 at consummation, and 18 at widowhood. She did not bear any children.

Why does this matter?
However, in light of modern and western sensibilities, a growing body of Muslims today question or outright deny these controversial Hadith. For many it is uncomfortable to acknowledge them. Justifying the marriage of a 6 year old to a man decades older than her, can create a profound sense of cognitive dissonance. Unfortunately, in an attempt to defend their position, some believers may ultimately decide to deny authentic Hadith, which unknowingly sets a dangerous precedent and puts major Islamic sources into question.

In this thread I will discuss the inaccurate and misleading claims often made about the age of Aisha and break them down, one by one.

(All sources will be listed, including references to the Quran, Sahih Hadith, Seerah, Ulema, etc)


1st Objection: All these traditions are narrated by only one person i.e. Hisham bin 'Urwa and none from Medina narrated it
But this objection is false.

The traditions about Aisha's age at the time of marriage have been narrated by multiple alternative chains of narrations, including the people of Medina too.

Sheikh Haddad is a Sunni Hadith Master, and he replied to this objection as following (link):

“Al-Zuhri also reports it from `Urwa, from `A'isha; so does `Abd Allah ibn Dhakwan, both major Madanis. So is the Tabi`i Yahya al-Lakhmi who reports it from her in the Musnad and in Ibn Sa`d's Tabaqat. So is Abu Ishaq Sa`d ibn Ibrahim who reports it from Imam al-Qasim ibn Muhammad, one of the Seven Imams of Madina, from `A'isha. All the narratives of this event have been reported. In addition to the above four Madinese Tabi`in narrators, Sufyan ibn `Uyayna from Khurasan and `Abd Allah ibn Muhammad ibn Yahya from Tabarayya in Palestine both report it.”
Here is also a list of 17 authentic Hadith, which tell that:

  • Aisha was married at the age of 6,
  • And the marriage was consummated when she was 9 years old.
  • And 4 of these Hadith also tell that Aisha was 18 years old when Muhammad died.
  • Moreover, few of them are narrated by other people than Hisham (i.e. people who deny Aisha's age of 9 years at the time of consummation, they falsely claim that all such Hadith are narrated by Hisham only).
The List:

  1. Sunan Ibn Majah, 1877 [marriage at 7, consummation at 9, age of 'Aisha when Muhammad died = 18. Not narrated by Hisham]
  2. Sahih Muslim, 1422c 9 [marriage at 7, consummation at 9, age of 'Aisha when Muhammad died = 18. Not narrated by Hisham]
  3. Sahih Muslim [marriage at 6, consummation at 9, age of 'Aisha when Muhammad died = 18]
  4. Sunan Nisai, 3258 [consummation at 9, age of 'Aisha when Muhammad died = 18]
  5. Sunan Ibn Majah, 1876 [consummation at 9, age of 'Aisha when Muhammad died = 18]
  6. Sunan Abu Dawud, 2121 [marriage at 7 or 6, consummation at 9]
  7. Sunan Nisai, 3256 [marriage at 7, consummation at 9]
  8. Sunan Nisai, 3378 [marriage at 6, consummation at 9]
  9. Sunan Nisai, 3257 [consummation at 9, stayed with Muhammad for 9 years till he died]
  10. Sunan Nisai, 3255 [marriage at 6, consummation at 9]
  11. Sahih Bukhari, 5134 [marriage at 6, consummation at 9, stayed with Muhammad for 9 years till he died]
  12. Sahih Bukhari, 3894 [marriage at 6, consummation at 9]
  13. Sahih Bukhari, 5133 [marriage at 6, consummation at 9, stayed with Muhammad for 9 years till he died]
  14. Sahih Bukhari, 5158 [marriage at 6, consummation at 9, stayed with Muhammad for 9 years till he died]
  15. Sahih Bukhari, 3896 [marriage at 6, consummation at 9]
  16. Sahih Muslim, 1422a [marriage at 6, consummation at 9]
  17. Sahih Muslim, 1422b [marriage at 6, consummation at 9]
​


2nd Objection: Revelation time of surah al-Qamar​
According to Sahih Bukhari (link), Aisha explains she was a "playful girl" (jariyatun al-'abu لَجَارِيَةٌ أَلْعَبُ) when Surah (chapter) al-Qamar of the Quran was revealed. This group of modern apologists claim that Surah al-Qamar was revealed 9 years before Hijrah, which makes Aisha to be much older than 6 years at the time of marriage.

But they are wrong as there is no proof present that Surah al-Qamar was revealed 9 years before Hijrah. Sheikh Haddad refutes them by stating (link):



“The hadith Masters, Sira historians, and Qur'anic commentators agree that the splitting of the moon took place about five years before the Holy Prophet's (upon him blessings and peace) Hijra to Madina. Thus it is confirmed that our Mother `Aisha was born between seven and eight years before the Hijra and the words that she was a jariya or little girl five years before the Hijra match the fact that her age at the time Surat al-Qamar was revealed was around 2 or 3. A two year old is not an infant. A two year old is able to run around, which is what jariya means. As for "the comments of the experts" they concur on 6 or 7 as the age of marriage and 9 as the age of cohabitation.”

3rd Objection: Battle of Badr and Uhud​
This apologetic argument aims to make the claim that Aisha was at the Battles of Badr and Uhud, and that since standard practice at the time disallowed anyone under 15 from joining the battlefield, she could not have been younger than this.

Shaykh Haddad responds to this apologetic argument (link):

“First, the prohibition applied to combatants. It applied neither to non-combatant boys nor to non-combatant girls and women. Second, `A'isha did not participate in Badr at all but bade farewell to the combatants as they were leaving Madina, as narrated by Muslim in his Sahih. On the day of Uhud (year 3), Anas, at the time only twelve or thirteen years old, reports seeing an eleven-year old `A'isha and his mother Umm Sulaym having tied up their dresses and carrying water skins back and forth to the combatants, as narrated by al-Bukhari and Muslim.”

4th Objection: Age of Asma​
One da’if (weak) hadith narrated from al-Zinad and recorded in the works of some medieval scholars, including al-Dhahabi (link), states that Aisha's older sister Asma was ten years older than her. This has been combined with improbable information about Asma being 100 years old at the time of her death in 73 AH to calculate that Aisha was eighteen or nineteen at the time of her marriage consummation (1 AH or 2 AH - (73 - 100) - 10).

Shaykh Haddad (link) and the IslamQA (link) website both independently criticise this approach as relying on a single narrator, who most scholars regard as weak, and note that a hadith by a more reliable chain from the same narrator gives a broader range for the age difference between the sisters. Both also note that al-Dhahabi too gave the vaguer opinion that Asma was "ten or more" years older than Aisha.

5th Objection: Tabari's account of Abu Bakr's children and wives​
Apologists claim that al-Tabari recorded that Aisha was born in the pre-islamic period, and thus could not have been less than 14 tears old (Reference: Al-Tabari, Vol. 4, Pg. 50, Arabic, Dar al-fikr, Beirut, 1979)

However, al-Tabari's own account reports at least five times that Aisha was around 6-7 years old during marriage and the marriage was consummated 3 years later (link).

Furthermore, Shaykh Gibril Haddad (link) says that the initial passage mentioned is misinterpreted, stating:



"Al-Tabari nowhere reports that 'Abu Bakr's four children were all born in Jahiliyya' but only that Abu Bakr married both their mothers in Jahiliyya, Qutayla bint Sa`d and Umm Ruman, who bore him four children in all, two each, `A'isha being the daughter of Umm Ruman."

6th Objection: Time of Umar's conversion to Islam​
This argument draws on the Seerah (Biography of the Prophet) to claim that since Aisha converted to Islam before Umar she could not have been born during the first year of Islam (link).

However, even if the claim Aisha converted to Islam before Umar was true, it does not mean this took place during the first year of Islam, since Umar converted in 617 AD, about 4 years after Aisha’s birth in 613 AD (link). Furthermore, Aisha never remembered a time before when her family wasn't Muslim (Sahih Bukhari)

Besides disputing the claim that Ibn Hisham reported that Aisha accepted Islam quite sometime before `Umar ibn al-Khattab, Shaykh Haddad also casts doubt on the claim stating (link):



“Nowhere does Ibn Hisham say this. Rather, Ibn Hisham lists `A'isha among 'those that accepted Islam because of Abu Bakr.' This does not mean that she embraced Islam during the first year of Islam. Nor does it mean that she necessarily embraced Islam before `Umar (year 6) although she was born the previous year (year 7 before the Hijra) although it is understood she will automatically follow her father's choice even before the age of reason.”

7th Objection: Tabari's account of Abu Bakr's migration to Habshah​
This argument claims that al-Tabari states that when Abu Bakr was planning to migrate to Abyssinia (Ethiopia), he spoke to Mut`am, with whose son, Jabayr, Aisha was engaged. This migration occurred eight years before hijrah, at which time Aisha had only just been born if she consummated her marriage to Muhammad at the age of 9 or 10.

Proponents of this claim admit they have no primary source, which originated in Kandhalvi's Urdu booklet (link). Shayk Haddad responds that "there is no mention of emigration in Tabari's account of Abu Bakr's discussion with Mut`im" and "there had been only some preliminary talk, not a formal arrangement".

8th Objection: The meaning of bikr​
This argument cites a hadith in Ibn Hanbal's Musnad saying that Khaulah suggested Aisha to Muhammad as a virgin (bikr) he could marry. The claim is that bikr would not be used for a young girl (link).

However, there are multiple sahih hadith narrations of a highly relevant conversation between Muhammad and Jabir in which bikr (virgin) is clearly compatible with jariyah (young girl).

Narrated Jabir: "Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said to me, "Have you got married O Jabir?" I replied, "Yes." He asked "What, a virgin [bikr] or a matron [thayyib]?" I replied, "Not a virgin but a matron." He said, "Why did you not marry a young girl [jariyah] who would have fondled with you?”

Sahih Bukhari 5:59:382

Shaykh Haddad (link) says regarding the claim, "This is ignorant nonsense, bikr means a virgin girl, a girl who has never been married even if her age is 0 and there is no unclarity here whatsoever.".

9th Objection: Fatima's age difference​
This claim is that according to ibn Hajar, Fatima was five years older than Aisha and Muhammad was 35 years old when Fatima was born. Therefore, based on this claim, Aisha must have been a teenager at the time her marriage was consummated.

However, the proponent of this claim (link) has combined and selectively quoted conflicting sources. Shaykh Haddad responds (link):

“Ibn Hajar mentions two versions: (1) al-Waqidi's narration that Fatima was born when the Prophet was 35; and (2) Ibn `Abd al-Barr's narration that she was born when he was 41, approximately one year more or less before Prophethood, and about five years before `A'isha was born. The latter version matches the established dates.”

10th Objection: Hadith said Aisha had reached puberty​
This argument is based on a mistranslated hadith, Sahih Bukhari 1:8:465, which in one English translation states that Aisha had seen her parents follow Islam since the age of puberty, and not a day passed by without Muhammad visiting them.



“Narrated `Aisha: (the wife of the Prophet) I had seen my parents following Islam since I attained the age of puberty. Not a day passed but the Prophet (ﷺ) visited us, both in the mornings and evenings[...]”



However, the word أَعْقِلْ means thoughts or reasoning, but the translator, Muhsin Khan, has used the word 'puberty'. The meaning rather is simply that 'Aisha was aware that her parents were following Islam. A literal translation would be "I was not aware of my parents other than that the two of them both acknowledged the religion". The exact same Arabic phrase is translated correctly by the same translator in another narration of the same hadith (link).

11th Objection: Hadith in which Aisha menstruated​
This argument is also based on a mistranslated hadith.

Sunan Abu Dawud 4915 (Ahmad Hasan numbering; 4933 Dar-us-Salam):

Narrated Aisha, Ummul Mu'minin: The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) married me when I was seven or six. When we came to Medina, some women came. according to Bishr's version: Umm Ruman came to me when I was swinging. They took me, made me prepared and decorated me. I was then brought to the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ), and he took up cohabitation with me when I was nine. She halted me at the door, and I burst into laughter. Abu Dawud said: That is to say: I menstruated, and I was brought in a house, and there were some women of the Ansari in it. They said: With good luck and blessing. The tradition of one of them has been included in the other.



Sunan Abu Dawud 4915 (Ahmad Hasan Ref)

Ahmad Hasan mistranslates Abu Dawud's comment as "That is to say: I menstruated".

Aisha's phrase "I burst into laughter" is fa-qultu heeh heeh (فَقُلْتُ هِيهْ هِيهْ), "And I said heh, heh". The Dar-us-Salam English-Arabic edition of Sunan Abu Dawud translated by Nasiruddin al-Khattab (Hadith 4933) renders Aisha's words here: "She made me stand at the door and I started to breathe deeply" (Dar-us-Salam does not include Abu Dawud's comment).

Abu Dawud's comment is "ay tanaffasat (أَىْ تَنَفَّسَتْ)", which is "That is to say 'I breathed'". The verb nun-fa-sin is used here in Arabic form V with the ta prefix and shadda (doubled) middle letter, which Lane's Lexicon says means "breathed".

12th Objection: Aisha remembered the migration setting out to Abyssinia​
Another hadith has been commonly misinterpreted in order to claim that Aisha remembered Muhammad coming to Abu Bakr when it was time to migrate to Abyssinia (modern day Ethiopia). This forced migration occurred due to what Urwa b. al-Zubayr in his first letter describes as the first persecution (al-fitnah al-ūlā) in Mecca, before the migration some years later to Medina.

Response:

The hadith itself does not state which migration it relates too.

Narrated Aisha: Rarely did the Prophet (ﷺ) fail to visit Abu Bakr's house everyday, either in the morning or in the evening. When the permission for migration to Medina was granted, all of a sudden the Prophet (ﷺ) came to us at noon and Abu Bakr was informed, who said, "Certainly the Prophet (ﷺ) has come for some urgent matter." The Prophet (ﷺ) said to Abu Bakr, when the latter entered "Let nobody stay in your home." Abu Bakr said, "O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)! There are only my two daughters (namely `Aisha and Asma') present." The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "I feel (am informed) that I have been granted the permission for migration." Abu Bakr said, "I will accompany you, O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)!" The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "You will accompany me." Abu Bakr then said "O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)! I have two she-camels I have prepared specially for migration, so I offer you one of them. The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "I have accepted it on the condition that I will pay its price."

Sahih Bukhari 3:34:348



Another hadith shows clearly that the above hadith actually refers to the migration to Medina, not Abyssinia. Notice the similar phrasing about Muhammad coming to Abu Bakr at noon after being granted permission to migrate. At the end of the quote, Medina is mentioned.



Narrated `Aisha: Abu Bakr asked the Prophet (ﷺ) to allow him to go out (of Mecca) when he was greatly annoyed (by the infidels). But the Prophet (ﷺ) said to him, "Wait." Abu Bakr said, O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)! Do you hope that you will be allowed (to migrate)?" Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) replied, "I hope so." So Abu Bakr waited for him till one day Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) came at noon time and addressed him saying "Let whoever is present with you, now leave you." Abu Bakr said, "None is present but my two daughters." The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "Have you noticed that I have been allowed to go out (to migrate)?" Abu Bakr said, "O Allah's Apostle, I would like to accompany you." The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "You will accompany me." Abu Bakr said, "O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)! I have got two she-camels which I had prepared and kept ready for (our) going out." So he gave one of the two (she-camels) to the Prophet (ﷺ) and it was Al-Jad`a. They both rode and proceeded till they reached the Cave at the mountain of Thaur where they hid themselves. Amir bin Fuhaira was the slave of `Abdullah bin at-Tufail bin Sakhbara `Aisha's brother from her mother's side. Abu Bakr had a milch she-camel. Amir used to go with it (i.e. the milch she-camel) in the afternoon and come back to them before noon by setting out towards them in the early morning when it was still dark and then he would take it to the pasture so that none of the shepherds would be aware of his job. When the Prophet (and Abu Bakr) went away (from the Cave), he (i.e. 'Amir) too went along with them and they both used to make him ride at the back of their camels in turns till they reached Medina. [...]

Sahih Bukhari 5:59:419

13th Objection: The prophet Muhammad wanted a grown-up wife for his children​
Pakistani Muslim Scholar Ghamidi also disputes the claim that Aisha was 9 at the time of consummation of marriage. His argument is that the Prophet desired a mature and grown-up wife to manage his household affairs and care for his young daughters. According to Ghamidi, Aisha's age at the time of Nikah was 16, and the consummation of marriage occurred when she was 19 years old.

However, this explanation seems weak. If we were to accept Aisha's age as 16 at the time of Nikah, a 16-year-old woman could have easily taken care of the children and the household. Why, then, did the Prophet wait three more years (until she turned 19) to bring her into his home? If he truly needed a woman to run the household, he could have done so immediately after the Nikah and consummated the marriage. The three-year delay raises questions.

Furthermore, the Prophet performed Nikah with Aisha even before marrying Sawdah. If Aisha was indeed 16 years old, there would have been no need for him to marry an older woman like Sawdah when a 16-year-old Aisha could have sufficiently taken care of his daughters and household.


14th Objection: Verse 4:6 is proof that pre-pubescent girls cannot be married​
This group of modern apologists also uses verse 4:6 as an argument to deny marriage to minor girls in Islam.

Verse 4:6:

وَٱبْتَلُوا۟ ٱلْيَتَٰمَىٰ حَتَّىٰٓ إِذَا بَلَغُوا۟ ٱلنِّكَاحَ فَإِنْ ءَانَسْتُم مِّنْهُمْ رُشْدًا فَٱدْفَعُوٓا۟ إِلَيْهِمْ أَمْوَٰلَهُمْ

And test the orphans until when they reached the age of marriage (Nikah), then if you perceive in them sound judgement then deliver to them their wealth.

Modern Muslim preachers claim that one gets sound judgement about his wealth when one is already an adult person. Thus, this means that Islam prescribed that one can marry only after becoming an adult.

Response:

Please take note that the word “Nikah" carries a double meaning in the Arabic language:

  • In Islamic Sharia, "Nikah" is a specific terminology with the meaning of "marriage".
  • However, in its literal sense in the Arabic language, "Nikah" refers to "sexual intercourse".
Quran 17:34
وَلَا تَقْرَبُوا۟ مَالَ ٱلْيَتِيمِ إِلَّا بِٱلَّتِى هِىَ أَحْسَنُ حَتَّىٰ يَبْلُغَ أَشُدَّهُۥ ۚ

Come not nigh to the orphan's property except to improve it, until he attains the age of full strength۔

In this verse, the term "أَشُدَّهُ" (full strength) denotes the age when young boys and girls begin to experience the desire or strength for sexual intercourse.

Please take note of the following points:

  • Regarding Shar'i Nikah (marriage), there is no requirement for reaching the state of أَشُدَّهُ (full strength or sexual maturity).
  • The evidence supporting this is that Muhammad himself performed the Shar'i Nikah with Aisha when she was only 6 years old.
  • It is not customary to test a 6-year-old child for handling their property, as they lack both أَشُدَّهُ (strength/desire) and the necessary "sound judgment" to manage their assets.
Therefore, the concept of أَشُدَّهُ (strength) has no bearing on Shar'i Nikah, given that Muhammad married 'Aisha at the age of 6.

Even when Aisha came to Muhammad's house for the consummation of their marriage at the age of 9, she still lacked the mental acuity required to manage any property or business, as evident from the following hadith:

Sahih Bukhari 6130:



Narrated `Aisha: I used to play with the dolls in the presence of the Prophet, and my girl friends also used to play with me. When Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) used to enter (my dwelling place) they used to hide themselves, but the Prophet would call them to join and play with me.

Fourthly, according to Islamic Sharia:

  • When a girl reaches puberty, then she herself gets the right to give her consent for the marriage or to deny the marriage.
  • But if she is a minor or prepubescent girl, then her father/guardian can wed her to anyone, even without her consent (link).
  • And if she is prepubescent and also an orphan, then her guardian has the right to wed her with himself (even without her consent), in order to get her property and wealth.
It is evident from the following Hadith:

Sahih Bukhari 5064:



Narrated 'Urwa: that he asked `Aisha about the Statement of Allah: 'If you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly with the orphan girls, then marry (other) women of your choice, two or three or four; but if you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or (the captives) that your right hands possess. That will be nearer to prevent you from doing injustice.' (4.3) `Aisha said, "O my nephew! (This Verse has been revealed in connection with) an orphan girl under the guardianship of her guardian who is attracted by her wealth and beauty and intends to marry her with a Mahr (bride-dowry) less than what other women of her standard deserve. So they (such guardians) have been forbidden to marry them unless they do justice to them and give them their full Mahr, and they are ordered to marry other women instead of them."

And it is also evident from the following Quranic Verse:

Quran 4:127:

You also read them (the guardians) in the Book concerning orphaned women (in your charge) to whom you deny their ordained rights and yet wish to take them in marriage, as well as in respect of helpless children, that you should be just in the matter of orphans." The good you do is known to God



And the orphan girl, in the above tradition, is a small orphan girl who has not yet reached puberty. It is due to the reason that:

  • Firstly, after becoming an adult, the guardian cannot compel her to marry him without her consent.
  • Secondly, after becoming an adult, the guardian cannot marry her by giving her less than a standard dowry (i.e. Haq Mehr).
  • Thirdly, after becoming an adult, she will get full control of her money and property too, and thus the guardian cannot take control of her property any more.
  • Fourthly, after becoming an adult, she is no more considered an orphan.
Moreover, Islamqa.com, one of the largest Fatwa sites on the internet, also refutes these modern Muslim preachers regarding verse 4:6 (link):



This verse 4:6 explains that an orphan’s money is given to him/her after they reach puberty and attain sound judgement. What’s meant by sound judgment is sound management of money. This can only happen after puberty.



“Reaching Nikah” mentioned in the verse means reaching puberty which can be known through sings such as menstruation for females and the growth of pubic hair. The verse used the expression “reaching Nikah” to actually mean “reaching puberty” because in most cases, it’s adults who perform Nikah. But this doesn’t mean that it’s not possible for non-adults to perform Nikah, which is permissible as proven by the Quran, Sunnah and the consensus of scholars. Plus, the same Surah and the same context of verses proves it (the permissibility of child marriage). (The verse that speaks about giving an orphan his money when he/she reaches Nikah is verse no.6) Verse no.3 says: “And if you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly with the orphangirls, then marry (other) women of your choice, two or three, or four but if you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one or (the captives and the slaves) that your right hands possess. ”.



This verse proves it’s allowed to marry an orphan. And an orphan cannot be an adult. It’s reported in Sahih Bukhari Hadith no. 2494: “Narrated Urwah that he asked `Aisha regarding the Verse: 'If you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly with the orphan girls, marry (other) women of your choice.' (4.3) `Aisha said, "It is about an orphan girl under the custody of her guardian who being attracted by her wealth and beauty wants to marry her with Mahr less than other women of her status. So such guardians were forbidden to marry them unless they treat them justly by giving them their full Mahr. Then the people sought the verdict of Allah's Apostle for such cases, whereupon Allah revealed: 'They ask your instruction concerning women..' (4.127) “https://sunnah.com/bukhari:6965



Ibn Hajar (d.1449 AD) commented on this Hadith saying: “This shows it’s allowed to marry orphans who haven’t reached puberty. Because after puberty they can’t be called orphans.”

Contemporary Muslim Scholars, who accept that Aisha's age was 6 at the time of marriage and not 16​
  • Islam QA article on 'Aisha's age (2nd Article): Shaykh Muhammad Saalih al-Munajjid, Member of Senior Scholar Council KSA owner of well-known site islamqa.info fatwa “Refutation of the lie that the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) married ‘Aa’ishah when she was 18 years old ”.​
  • Islamweb.Net: It firmly establishes Aisha’s age at 6/9. “Qatar Ministry of Religious Affairs, Fatwa Team: On this site, there is a committee of specialists that is responsible for preparing, checking and approving the Fatwas. This committee comprises a group of licentiate graduates from the Islamic University, Al-Imaam Muhammad Bin Sa’oud Islamic University in Saudi Arabia, and graduates who studied Islamic sciences from scholars at Mosques and other Islamic educational institutes in Yemen and Mauritania. This special committee is headed by Dr. ‘Abdullaah Al-Faqeeh, a specialist in Jurisprudence and Arabic language.” Responds to an unnamed article that uses asma and engagement arguments. 2/12/2012​
  • Yaqeen Institute (USA) 2018: It addresses Hisham, Asma, Fatima, Uhud, Surah 54/Moon​
  • Islamiqate.Com 2019: Though not a fatwa, it concerns a named scholar from Al-Azhar who also wrote about Badr & Uhud, Asma, Tabari, Fatima, Hisham, and migration to Abyssinia.​
Click to expand...
dnr it was common back then
 
tunisianropemaxxer said:
Dnr
Im atheist but in islamic beliefs a girls age start being counted the age she starts puberty
Average age for start of puberty back then was 12 to 14
So therotically since she was six
To today standards she would have been 18 to 20
Click to expand...
Bizzare levels of cope

If the age of puberty back then she was 12, then she was PREPUBERTAL

How many modern day 18 year old women do you know who haven't started puberty

This makes not a lick of sense
 
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Gaygymmaxx said:
Bizzare levels of cope

If the age of puberty back then she was 12, then she was PREPUBERTAL

How many modern day 18 year old women do you know who haven't started puberty

This makes not a lick of sense
Click to expand...
What?they counted years after puberty?
They claim shes 6 according to the way they measured age back then?
Therefore by today standards shes like 16 to 20?
 
  • JFL
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tunisianropemaxxer said:
What?they counted years after puberty?
They claim shes 6 according to the way they measured age back then?
Therefore by today standards shes like 16 to 20?
Click to expand...
They didn't count after puberty what the fuck :feelskek:
 
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  • +1
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Gaygymmaxx said:
Yea that was a Muslim coper :feelskek:

Not even @Gengar copes this hard about the prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him 👀)
Click to expand...
Im an atheist i couldnt care less tbh
 
  • JFL
Reactions: Gaygymmaxx
you focus too much on ayeshas age

everything we know of and have is stacked against this predicament that she was somehow a prepubescent minor

theres no definitive evidence that the prophet (peace be upon him) was a paedophile by any means, he does not exhibit their behaviour neither has he ever contradicted his or the qurans noble stances on the protection of women.

why not talk about rebeccas age or how paul forged the new testament?
 
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