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If you have been on .org today, specifically in the Looksmaxing subforum part of it, you have most likely seen a thread stickied to the top going by "The Realitypill: Easier said than done." If you read that, with any desire to get any surgical operation in the future, you're most likely feeling down, sad, probably the ol' "it's over" feeling. Well not to worry, let's go through this thread and see exactly how accurate everything is.
Here is the thread in question: https://looksmax.org/threads/the-realitypill-easier-said-than-done.1414566/
Summary
Now let us go through this thread and understand the basics of it, and what better way to do that than to just get a very short summary of it.
Incoming ChatGPT'd Summary:
This thread is a deep dive into the "Realitypill"—a harsh critique of the oversimplified, often blindly optimistic advice to "just surgerymaxx bro" that gets thrown around in the looksmaxing community. The author breaks down the true cost, requirements, risks, and limitations of pursuing cosmetic surgery and performance-enhancing drugs (PEDs) as a means to "ascend" (i.e., improve attractiveness, social status, or romantic prospects).
The core argument is this: unless you already have a good genetic base, a strong support system, and tens of thousands of dollars, most of these procedures are either:
It lays out in painful detail that even with all the surgeries and roids in the world, you’ll still be limited by your genetics—and most people recommending these solutions have no idea how difficult or inaccessible they really are.
Reality of the Thread:
While OP does cover good points in the thread, he completely overexaggerates the whole "it's over" idea. Most people who are seriously going into getting surgeries understand the risks of it, the actual audience for the thread is a very small niche within the "greycels" that have no actual recession or issues within their face that are blindly relying on surgical operations to ascend them. Most people here who want to ascend have at least some recession, at least one thing wrong with their bone structure, and the average user most likely has at least one serious bone deformity that is holding them back.
The Reality of the Surgical Operations Mentioned in the Thread:
Surgical Operation #1: Limb Lengthening
Actual Reality of the Procedure:
This one was mostly unneeded, most users here wouldn't even consider LL, it is very widely known even people who haven't heard of the blackpill in their life that the Limb Lengthening procedure is extremely dangerous and painful. Most users who would even consider going through such a surgery are either young or are so new to these things that they haven't heard of the dangers of the procedure.
Lifefuel for this procedure?
This one is a classic, you just have to give it time. Technology is advancing very rapidly, and people care more about cosmetic appearance now than ever before in history. If you're young and want LL (which is usually the case,) just wait. Within our lifetime we will most definitely see major improvements on the procedure, and if fate does us right, it will be available to those that need it with much less risk than the if you were to get it now. It's just like how if you wanted to get a Bimax or implants in the early 2000s or in the 90s, you'd most likely be in trouble since technology was still new back then, but nowadays they are seen as almost everyday procedures. Give it time. It's not over, people have lived for thousands of years at all heights, your life isn't over because you're not 6'5. Do not let the opinions of rotting incels get the better of you.
Surgical Operation #2: OBO (Orbital Box Osteotomy)
Actual Reality of the Procedure:
Again, just like previously, with Limb Lengthening, this one is mostly here for dramatic effect. How do we know this? Because there isn't a single person in this world that medically NEEDS Orbital Box Osteotomy. There are just about 3 threads on this forum talking about any type of success and interest into the procedure (while things like bimax have hundreds and thousands on the internet) and for good reason. The operation literally expands your skull, no crap it'd be dangerous. This operation also gets little to no media attention so people don't even really ask for it, anyone that seriously wants and is capable of getting the procedure 100% understands the risks of getting it. One thing OP didn't mention in the cons is that a requirement of getting the procedures is being essentially ZERO INHIB, OBO is essentially an extremely dangerous operation that is SOLELY cosmetic. There is probably 100 or less people in this world who would actually require the procedure (even that is probably overstating it.) You would have to be able to contact a surgeon and effectively be able to communicate your needs fully, even a slight thing left out could cause you to get severely botched (which would be one of the better things that can happen to you with this procedure.) As stated before, anyone with the capabilities to get this operation knows exactly what they are doing.
Lifefuel for this procedure?
You most likely don't need it, if you even know what it is. The greycels OP mentions in the thread most likely don't even know what OBO is jfl. There are tons of other procedures you can get which will help your eye area. Unless your bone structure is literally blocking your eyes from seeing, you do not need Orbital Box Osteotomy.
Surgical Operation #3: Lefort - 1, 2, and 3
Actual Reality of the Procedure:
This is the first operation I can get behind posting about, Lefort 3 is an increasingly popular operation to look into nowadays. But most users by now already know how dangerous the procedure is. Literally one look at what Lefort 3 is, is usually enough to get the idea of the procedure completely out of someone's head. It's literally taking apart your skull and putting it back together. Lefort in general is an exponential surgery - how? It gets exponentially more dangerous the higher you go in levels for it. Lefort 2 is usually too much for the average recessed person, what OP doesn't mention is how severely recessed you actually have to be for Lefort 3. In that case your upper jaw is essentially touching the back of your skull. Lefort 1 is enough for literally over 99% of people who are interested in getting the operation.
Lifefuel for this procedure?
Most, and I mean the extreme majority of people DO NOT need anything higher than Lefort 1, which is not a dangerous surgery at all. OP mentions a risk of asymmetry and what is the solution to this? Don't get an idiot to perform on the body you're going to live in for the rest of your life. This would be a valid thing to worry about if this thread was posted to lookism.net 10 years ago, but nowadays with all the technological advancements we have, the risk of asymmetry is a lot more minor than it's made out to be in the thread. OP also mentions nerve damage and sinus issues, which have the same solutions as before, make sure you have a good surgeon. Remember that a patient's aftermath is the face of the surgeon, they are literally risking everything to give you your surgery, no surgeon is going to willingly botch you and a good, professional one, will have a very low chance of messing up your face. The cost of the procedure is also heavily exaggerated. A bimax, which combines Lefort and BSSO, costs around 30 - 45k for a high end one in Europe. Nobody is charging you 40k for Lefort 1 unless you're having someone like Sailer perform on you. And for the small amount of users that may read this that require Lefort 2 and above? Well good news for you! You are more than likely to be covered by insurance. Lefort 2 and 3 are rarer procedures that require special patients to be accepted, if you absolutely require them, you have a much, much higher chance of being approved for surgery by your insurance. To wrap it up, everything has a risk, you take a risk everyday, so instead of rotting here, worrying about the WHATs and IFs of something, how about you get it done, higher than not, you'll most likely not regret it.
Surgical Operation #4: Bimax
Actual Reality of the Procedure:
This one is fully here to scare you, not to actually tell you the realities of the procedure. OP mentions "nerves getting cut which'll cause permanent numbness in parts of your face" and states that 20-50% of patients experience this, which is just wrong. This number is realistically more of 5-10% and even if it DOES happen (which is unlikely as long as you have a good surgeon,) you will get used to it just like you get used to braces or any other procedure done on you. OP also mentions a risk of asymmetry forever if a miscalculation is done, and just like in my response to his Lefort pros and cons, it's pretty simple - Remember that a patient's aftermath is the face of the surgeon, they are literally risking everything to give you your surgery, no surgeon is going to willingly botch you and a good, professional one, will have a very low chance of messing up your face. Human beings are a very vocal species, you are more likely to see people complaining about botches online since the people who got the operation silently usually deny any claims of getting surgery and live on their life happily. OP also mentions a risk of TMJ issues after it but doesn't mention the actual percentage of it, which is 5-15% and are TEMPORARY, and go away with healing. And in the low chance it's not temporary, remember that TMJ is a curable illness, you can go to physical therapy and get it reversed. You will be fine. Also the pricing for the Bimax stated is taken completely out of context, please remember that Bimax is a combination of two operations - Lefort 1 and BSSO. 15 - 30k is the more standard price for a commercial surgeon in Europe (such as Ramieri) and 45k is more of on the higher end for it. The 80k number stated in the thread is absurd and is only the price you'll pay if you're a richcel and have a literal wizard perform on you. Most bimaxes do not cost that much.
Lifefuel for this procedure?
Bimax is one of the most effective surgeries you can get. It's an instant ascension for anyone that actually needs the procedure. If you do not need a Bimax, you will have more luck and happiness getting implants for your chin or jaw, which is usually the most any normal person needs to ascend. The recovery for it is brutal, but not as brutal as OP makes it out to be. Also remember that if you require the procedure, it will more than likely be covered by insurance, the cost isn't as brutal as it's made out to be.
Surgical Operation #5: CCW (Counter Clock Wise) Rotation Surgery
Reality of this Procedure:
Honestly, I have no idea why this is included in the thread. CCW Rotation is always almost done and included in with a Bimax, and OP goes into detail about how it can be detrimental if you don't have good planning, recovery time, etc. The solution to this is very simple, and as I've stated before many times, don't have an idiot perform on you. If you're going into such a big surgery such as Bimaxillary Osteotomy, you will be Bimaxpilled to the max by the time you get it. Don't forget that you'll most likely be nervous and/or excited for the procedure so you'll read up everything to the max, and as long as you have a good surgeon perform on you, you will most likely not have any more issues than you would've had with a regular bimax. Everything will be absolutely fine as long as you have something to fix and aren't solely getting it for aesthetic purposes which is rarely the case.
Lifefuel for this procedure?
CCW is included in this thread for almost no reason, it is the cherry on top of a regular Bimax when needed and can and will drastically improve your face. It is usually up to the patient to choose if they want it included in the procedure, and if you 100% need it, insurance will cover it so you will be able to get a good surgeon to perform on you.
The Rest of the Thread: Steroids, Drugs, and other injectable Procedures
This part is mostly a really big DNR for one main reason, it's totally water and stupid. It's just another thread stating the pros and cons of drugs, which always have a negative tone even at the word, and for good reason. Why would you ever expect drugs to be good for you? Obviously they're going to have bad side effects jfl. You can be coping to the maximum and you'd still have to admit and know that any type of steroid is bad for you, no matter the good parts. This entire part of the thread is there for dramatic effect to further the idea of doomerism into your mind, as is the entire point of the very gloomy thread. 99% of steroid users know what they're doing and recognize the effects of what they're doing to their body. Nobody is taking a dirty needle into them and expecting to get a chad physique with no downsides to it.
Things Left Unstated Throughout my Thread and a Final TL;DR:
As you've probably noticed, I didn't mention a few key things that OP mentioned for most of the procedures in his thread. Those being:
Take a look at this, people have entire CAREERS solely on looking good, there are people who have become literal BILLIONAIRES because of how they look, looks are one of the most important things in life. Obviously the realitypill isn't as brutal as OP makes it out to be but you have to realize there is a certain level of coping you may have to stop. People live their lives always wanting to be beautiful, it's easily top 3 most desired attributes in any human. Obviously if you want to attain a certain status of looks, you WILL have to give up a lot, but put aside all the risks, fears, and IFs - what if it works out? Imagine your life 5 years from now, you haven't taken any risks, you are at a mediocre level, and I bet in this reality, 9 times out of 10 you will have wished you had taken the risk, done something. Sacrifice something now for the top human experience for the rest of your life. Remember my friend, you are human, the chance of you being born is 1 in 10²,⁶⁸⁵,⁰⁰⁰ - That’s 1 in 10 followed by 2,685,000 zeroes. All odds have past yet you are here, so why not live your life to the fullest?
Last bit of lifefuel: Most really good surgery results are not on the internet as people will rather claim they never got operations, if there are this many good results to surgical procedures done online, imagine how many are just never posted, you will never know, and I wish you all to be in such a scenario.
I wish all of you happy ascending, remember to stay hopeful and live your life in good anticipation for the things to come. Never lose hope, there is always the next thing to come.
Here is the thread in question: https://looksmax.org/threads/the-realitypill-easier-said-than-done.1414566/
Summary
Now let us go through this thread and understand the basics of it, and what better way to do that than to just get a very short summary of it.
Incoming ChatGPT'd Summary:
This thread is a deep dive into the "Realitypill"—a harsh critique of the oversimplified, often blindly optimistic advice to "just surgerymaxx bro" that gets thrown around in the looksmaxing community. The author breaks down the true cost, requirements, risks, and limitations of pursuing cosmetic surgery and performance-enhancing drugs (PEDs) as a means to "ascend" (i.e., improve attractiveness, social status, or romantic prospects).
The core argument is this: unless you already have a good genetic base, a strong support system, and tens of thousands of dollars, most of these procedures are either:
- Unrealistic
- Extremely risky
- Marginally effective
It lays out in painful detail that even with all the surgeries and roids in the world, you’ll still be limited by your genetics—and most people recommending these solutions have no idea how difficult or inaccessible they really are.
Reality of the Thread:
While OP does cover good points in the thread, he completely overexaggerates the whole "it's over" idea. Most people who are seriously going into getting surgeries understand the risks of it, the actual audience for the thread is a very small niche within the "greycels" that have no actual recession or issues within their face that are blindly relying on surgical operations to ascend them. Most people here who want to ascend have at least some recession, at least one thing wrong with their bone structure, and the average user most likely has at least one serious bone deformity that is holding them back.
The Reality of the Surgical Operations Mentioned in the Thread:
Surgical Operation #1: Limb Lengthening
LL (Limb Lengthening Surgery):
A surgical procedure where your leg bones are intentionally broken and a metal device (either external or internal) is attached to gradually pull the bones apart, allowing new bone to form in the gap. This can add 2-6 inches to your height depending on whether
one or both segments (femur and/or tibia) are lengthened, and how much your body can safely tolerate.Price:
Ranges from $50,000 to $120,000+, depending on country and surgeon,
number of segments operated (femurs vs. tibias), and whether it's internal or external fixators.
Hidden costs: travel, physiotherapy, rehab, loss of income during downtime. Full true cost closer to $150k+ if you want a life afterward.
Pros:
- One of the few surgeries that can literally change your SMV if you're under 5’6. Brings you into the "visible male" threshold.
- Results are permanent, height is important for social, career, and dating.
- Can psychologically ascend you if you were heightmogged your whole life.
- If done flawlessly, you will pass as a natural tall guy.
Cons:
- Pain is excruciating, rated worse than childbirth or cancer pain by some patients.
- You are breaking your legs and stretching them millimeter by millimeter for months.
- Recovery involves months in a wheelchair, walker, crutches. Gait issues and limping common.
- Complications are not rare: bone infection, leg length discrepancy, nerve injury, joint stiffness.
- It can ruin your biomechanics permanently. You'll never run or squat properly again if unlucky.
- If you aren’t already good-looking in the face, height won’t save you.
- Most normies won't understand. You’ll have to lie or ghost everyone for 1 year minimum.
Reality Level:
You should only even think about considering it if you’re under 5'6 . This isn’t as easy as you think, grey. You will fuck up your mental health, physical health, and social life. And be honest with yourself: you’re never going to get LL, so stop making bullshit posts about it.undefined
Actual Reality of the Procedure:
This one was mostly unneeded, most users here wouldn't even consider LL, it is very widely known even people who haven't heard of the blackpill in their life that the Limb Lengthening procedure is extremely dangerous and painful. Most users who would even consider going through such a surgery are either young or are so new to these things that they haven't heard of the dangers of the procedure.
Lifefuel for this procedure?
This one is a classic, you just have to give it time. Technology is advancing very rapidly, and people care more about cosmetic appearance now than ever before in history. If you're young and want LL (which is usually the case,) just wait. Within our lifetime we will most definitely see major improvements on the procedure, and if fate does us right, it will be available to those that need it with much less risk than the if you were to get it now. It's just like how if you wanted to get a Bimax or implants in the early 2000s or in the 90s, you'd most likely be in trouble since technology was still new back then, but nowadays they are seen as almost everyday procedures. Give it time. It's not over, people have lived for thousands of years at all heights, your life isn't over because you're not 6'5. Do not let the opinions of rotting incels get the better of you.
Surgical Operation #2: OBO (Orbital Box Osteotomy)
OBO (Orbital Box Osteotomy):
A highly complex surgical procedure where the bone surrounding the eye socket (orbital box) is cut, repositioned,
and fixed in a new position. This can change the projection, width, and height of the eye area. Surgeons may remove, reposition,
or add bone to create the desired effect, altering the appearance of the eyes and surrounding structures.Price:
$40k-80k baseline depending on surgeonOften requires international travel to find qualified surgeonsAdditional $10k-20k for planning and custom implantsHidden costs: Months of recovery time, potential vision therapy
Pros:
- Can fix sunken or asymmetrical eyes
- Improves orbital rim projection
- Can create hunter eyes effect if done correctly
- One of the few surgeries that can actually change eye area
Cons:
- Risk of permanent vision changes or blindness (yes, seriously)
- Extreme swelling that lasts months
- Potential for horrible scarring
- Most surgeons refuse to do it purely for cosmetic reasons
- Recovery involves weeks of not being able to read, use screens, or function
- Mental health impact of looking like a monster for months during recovery
Reality Level:
This is one of the most extreme procedures with the highest risk. If you're obsessing over your orbital rims while the rest of your face is a mess, you need therapy, not surgery. The eye area is incredibly complex and sensitive. Most "after" photos you see are cherry-picked and heavily filtered. The horror stories don't make it to the forums.
I had modified Orbital Box Osteotomy and Implants by Surgerymax. AMA
Hello everyone! I am a long time lurker on .org and a dedicated hardmaxxer - some of you might know me as monke from looksmax related group chats. I’m here to discuss the planning, share my personal experience, and answer questions regarding the whole process of the modified Orbital Box...looksmax.org
1st OBO + Tripod (No Strabismus!)
On September 3, 2024 we performed the first subcranial Orbital Box Osteotomy with Tripod Osteotomies, and the 2nd Custom Subcranial Orbital Box Osteotomy. (The first ever was collaborated with Dr Ercin, designed & assisted by me in Dec 2023. I collaborate with 3 independant surgeons for this...Actual box osteotomy patient, as well as every other extreme surgery
Hello, I am an OG from puahate, and certainly the most surgically experienced person in PSL history. I will make threads in the future about other topics, but here I want to answer questions about the OBO I had. I went from 65.5 mm IPD (on a 154 mm bizygo face) to a 72 mm IPD. I've attached a...
Actual Reality of the Procedure:
Again, just like previously, with Limb Lengthening, this one is mostly here for dramatic effect. How do we know this? Because there isn't a single person in this world that medically NEEDS Orbital Box Osteotomy. There are just about 3 threads on this forum talking about any type of success and interest into the procedure (while things like bimax have hundreds and thousands on the internet) and for good reason. The operation literally expands your skull, no crap it'd be dangerous. This operation also gets little to no media attention so people don't even really ask for it, anyone that seriously wants and is capable of getting the procedure 100% understands the risks of getting it. One thing OP didn't mention in the cons is that a requirement of getting the procedures is being essentially ZERO INHIB, OBO is essentially an extremely dangerous operation that is SOLELY cosmetic. There is probably 100 or less people in this world who would actually require the procedure (even that is probably overstating it.) You would have to be able to contact a surgeon and effectively be able to communicate your needs fully, even a slight thing left out could cause you to get severely botched (which would be one of the better things that can happen to you with this procedure.) As stated before, anyone with the capabilities to get this operation knows exactly what they are doing.
Lifefuel for this procedure?
You most likely don't need it, if you even know what it is. The greycels OP mentions in the thread most likely don't even know what OBO is jfl. There are tons of other procedures you can get which will help your eye area. Unless your bone structure is literally blocking your eyes from seeing, you do not need Orbital Box Osteotomy.
Surgical Operation #3: Lefort - 1, 2, and 3
Lefort 1,2 & 3:
A series of facial osteotomies (bone cuts) categorized by levels of complexity. Lefort 1 involves cutting and repositioning just the upper jaw.
Lefort 2 includes the upper jaw plus nasal and lower orbital bones. Lefort 3 is the most extensive,
involving the entire midface from the eye sockets down, essentially detaching the face from the skull base to reposition it.
Price:
Lefort 1: $20k-40k depending on surgeon reputation and countryLefort 2: $35k-60k for midface advancementLefort 3: $60k-100k+ (extremely complex, few surgeons can do it)Insurance might cover only if you have severe functional issues with proofHidden costs: Liquid diet for weeks, titanium plates that stay forever, potential revisions
Pros:
- Can completely change your midface projection (Lefort 2/3)
- Can fix recessed cheekbones and flat faces
- Works for cases of severe midface retrusion where fillers would look fake
- Functional benefits for breathing if you have midface issues
Cons:
- Risk of asymmetry is extremely high
- Nerve damage risk (can lose sensation in parts of your face permanently)
- Recovery is brutal - 2-3 months before swelling goes down to "presentable"
- Potential for sinus issues for life
- If combined with other procedures, risk of getting that "uncanny autist" look
- Most normies won't even know what changed, just that you look "different"
Reality Level:
Lefort 3 is basically facial reconstruction territory and mainly for deformities. If you're considering it for looks alone, you're deep in the delusion zone. Lefort 1 can be worth it for severe functional issues. Remember, most "ascended" guys you see online had perfect baseline genetics and just needed minor tweaks. The rest got botched but don't post about it.Real Cosmetic LeFort II (LeFort 2) & First Custom Non-Syndrome LeFort II in the world
On August 30, we did possibly the first custom LeFort II in the world, but most definitely the first custom non syndrome LeFort II in the world. Surgery was long but everything was done as planned. An anticipated unit of blood was transfused. Immediate anesthesia emergence/extubation was...Le Fort III Osteotomy
Le Fort III is an invasive surgery that advances the maxillary bone and zygomatic bones forward and upwards inorder to correct craniofacialdystrophy. A Le Fort III fracture includes fracture of the nasofrontal junction, bilateral fractures through the area of the frontozygomatic suture, and...
Actual Reality of the Procedure:
This is the first operation I can get behind posting about, Lefort 3 is an increasingly popular operation to look into nowadays. But most users by now already know how dangerous the procedure is. Literally one look at what Lefort 3 is, is usually enough to get the idea of the procedure completely out of someone's head. It's literally taking apart your skull and putting it back together. Lefort in general is an exponential surgery - how? It gets exponentially more dangerous the higher you go in levels for it. Lefort 2 is usually too much for the average recessed person, what OP doesn't mention is how severely recessed you actually have to be for Lefort 3. In that case your upper jaw is essentially touching the back of your skull. Lefort 1 is enough for literally over 99% of people who are interested in getting the operation.
Lifefuel for this procedure?
Most, and I mean the extreme majority of people DO NOT need anything higher than Lefort 1, which is not a dangerous surgery at all. OP mentions a risk of asymmetry and what is the solution to this? Don't get an idiot to perform on the body you're going to live in for the rest of your life. This would be a valid thing to worry about if this thread was posted to lookism.net 10 years ago, but nowadays with all the technological advancements we have, the risk of asymmetry is a lot more minor than it's made out to be in the thread. OP also mentions nerve damage and sinus issues, which have the same solutions as before, make sure you have a good surgeon. Remember that a patient's aftermath is the face of the surgeon, they are literally risking everything to give you your surgery, no surgeon is going to willingly botch you and a good, professional one, will have a very low chance of messing up your face. The cost of the procedure is also heavily exaggerated. A bimax, which combines Lefort and BSSO, costs around 30 - 45k for a high end one in Europe. Nobody is charging you 40k for Lefort 1 unless you're having someone like Sailer perform on you. And for the small amount of users that may read this that require Lefort 2 and above? Well good news for you! You are more than likely to be covered by insurance. Lefort 2 and 3 are rarer procedures that require special patients to be accepted, if you absolutely require them, you have a much, much higher chance of being approved for surgery by your insurance. To wrap it up, everything has a risk, you take a risk everyday, so instead of rotting here, worrying about the WHATs and IFs of something, how about you get it done, higher than not, you'll most likely not regret it.
Surgical Operation #4: Bimax
Bimax (Bimaxillary Osteotomy)
A procedure where both your upper jaw (maxilla) and lower jaw (mandible) are cut, repositioned, and fixed with titanium plates and screws.
The surgeon makes incisions inside your mouth, cuts the bones, moves them to desired positions, and then secures them.
This can correct recessed jaws, overbites, underbites, and improve facial balance.Price:
$30k-80k USD depending on surgeon and countryHealth insurance will reject you if they smell "cosmetic" - you better be a good actor about sleep apneaHidden costs: liquid diet supplies, time off work (2-4 weeks min), pain meds, follow-ups
Pros:
- Can actually change your face shape and fix recessed jaws
- Forward growth = immediate ascension if you had a weak chin/jaw
- Can fix breathing issues, sleep apnea, and bite problems
- Results are permanent (unless you get botched)
Cons:
- Insane facial swelling for weeks - you'll look like a punching bag
- Nerves get cut = permanent numbness in parts of your face for 20-50% of patients
- Eating through a syringe for weeks
- Can't laugh, sneeze, or yawn normally without pain for months
- If surgeon miscalculates even slightly = asymmetry forever
- Risk of TMJ issues that make your previous problems seem minor
- Some results don't show for 6+ months - you'll be coping "it's just swelling bro" for a LONG time
Reality Level:
If you're actually deformed or have severe function issues, worth considering. If you're just a normie who thinks a slightly stronger jaw will get you laid, you're delusional. Most results look uncanny if you don't need it functionally.Had Bimax CCW Genio with Dr Ramieri, AMA
Wont post pics but will answer all questions honestly and detailed as possible. Currently 2.5weeks post op.Failed bimax by Italian surgeon
Hello everyone, I did a bimaxillary about 6 months ago by a surgeon in Rome about which you can not find a lot of info on the internet, indeed there is no ... well it was a complete failure I was slightly retruded and I still am , maybe it also created some more problems .. I will answer...
Actual Reality of the Procedure:
This one is fully here to scare you, not to actually tell you the realities of the procedure. OP mentions "nerves getting cut which'll cause permanent numbness in parts of your face" and states that 20-50% of patients experience this, which is just wrong. This number is realistically more of 5-10% and even if it DOES happen (which is unlikely as long as you have a good surgeon,) you will get used to it just like you get used to braces or any other procedure done on you. OP also mentions a risk of asymmetry forever if a miscalculation is done, and just like in my response to his Lefort pros and cons, it's pretty simple - Remember that a patient's aftermath is the face of the surgeon, they are literally risking everything to give you your surgery, no surgeon is going to willingly botch you and a good, professional one, will have a very low chance of messing up your face. Human beings are a very vocal species, you are more likely to see people complaining about botches online since the people who got the operation silently usually deny any claims of getting surgery and live on their life happily. OP also mentions a risk of TMJ issues after it but doesn't mention the actual percentage of it, which is 5-15% and are TEMPORARY, and go away with healing. And in the low chance it's not temporary, remember that TMJ is a curable illness, you can go to physical therapy and get it reversed. You will be fine. Also the pricing for the Bimax stated is taken completely out of context, please remember that Bimax is a combination of two operations - Lefort 1 and BSSO. 15 - 30k is the more standard price for a commercial surgeon in Europe (such as Ramieri) and 45k is more of on the higher end for it. The 80k number stated in the thread is absurd and is only the price you'll pay if you're a richcel and have a literal wizard perform on you. Most bimaxes do not cost that much.
Lifefuel for this procedure?
Bimax is one of the most effective surgeries you can get. It's an instant ascension for anyone that actually needs the procedure. If you do not need a Bimax, you will have more luck and happiness getting implants for your chin or jaw, which is usually the most any normal person needs to ascend. The recovery for it is brutal, but not as brutal as OP makes it out to be. Also remember that if you require the procedure, it will more than likely be covered by insurance, the cost isn't as brutal as it's made out to be.
Surgical Operation #5: CCW (Counter Clock Wise) Rotation Surgery
CCW (Counter Clock Wise) Rotation Surgery:
A specialized jaw surgery technique where both jaws are rotated counterclockwise as a unit to improve facial aesthetics and function.
This rotation typically brings the chin forward and up while bringing the upper teeth down,
creating a more harmonious profile and better jaw angle. It's almost always performed as part of a larger orthognathic surgery plan.
Price:
$30k-70k as part of jaw surgery packageUsually combined with other procedures, rarely done aloneMost surgeons won't even attempt without extensive planningHidden costs: Multiple consultations, 3D planning fees, revision fundsPros:
- Can dramatically improve facial harmony and profile
- Changes the entire lower third angle of your face
- Can make a weak chin appear stronger without implants
- Creates more masculine angles in facial structure
Cons:
- Extremely complex, high risk of complications
- Can create breathing issues if rotation is too aggressive
- Common complaint: "My bite feels off forever"
- Recovery involves months of not being able to fully open your mouth
- Requires perfect planning or you'll look worse than before
- Potential for relapse if your muscles fight the new position
Reality Level:
If you're hyperfixated on specific angles of your face that normies don't even notice, you're already too far gone. CCW rotation is an advanced technique that makes sense for maybe 1% of cases. For most greycels, fixing basics like skin, weight, and hair would do more than this complex surgery ever could. The risk-reward ratio is trash unless you're severely deformed.Had Bimax CCW Genio with Dr Ramieri, AMA
Wont post pics but will answer all questions honestly and detailed as possible. Currently 2.5weeks post op.
Reality of this Procedure:
Honestly, I have no idea why this is included in the thread. CCW Rotation is always almost done and included in with a Bimax, and OP goes into detail about how it can be detrimental if you don't have good planning, recovery time, etc. The solution to this is very simple, and as I've stated before many times, don't have an idiot perform on you. If you're going into such a big surgery such as Bimaxillary Osteotomy, you will be Bimaxpilled to the max by the time you get it. Don't forget that you'll most likely be nervous and/or excited for the procedure so you'll read up everything to the max, and as long as you have a good surgeon perform on you, you will most likely not have any more issues than you would've had with a regular bimax. Everything will be absolutely fine as long as you have something to fix and aren't solely getting it for aesthetic purposes which is rarely the case.
Lifefuel for this procedure?
CCW is included in this thread for almost no reason, it is the cherry on top of a regular Bimax when needed and can and will drastically improve your face. It is usually up to the patient to choose if they want it included in the procedure, and if you 100% need it, insurance will cover it so you will be able to get a good surgeon to perform on you.
The Rest of the Thread: Steroids, Drugs, and other injectable Procedures
This part is mostly a really big DNR for one main reason, it's totally water and stupid. It's just another thread stating the pros and cons of drugs, which always have a negative tone even at the word, and for good reason. Why would you ever expect drugs to be good for you? Obviously they're going to have bad side effects jfl. You can be coping to the maximum and you'd still have to admit and know that any type of steroid is bad for you, no matter the good parts. This entire part of the thread is there for dramatic effect to further the idea of doomerism into your mind, as is the entire point of the very gloomy thread. 99% of steroid users know what they're doing and recognize the effects of what they're doing to their body. Nobody is taking a dirty needle into them and expecting to get a chad physique with no downsides to it.
Things Left Unstated Throughout my Thread and a Final TL;DR:
As you've probably noticed, I didn't mention a few key things that OP mentioned for most of the procedures in his thread. Those being:
- Recovery Time
- Pain Tolerance
- The "Rolling of the Dice, You Could Look Worse After"
Take a look at this, people have entire CAREERS solely on looking good, there are people who have become literal BILLIONAIRES because of how they look, looks are one of the most important things in life. Obviously the realitypill isn't as brutal as OP makes it out to be but you have to realize there is a certain level of coping you may have to stop. People live their lives always wanting to be beautiful, it's easily top 3 most desired attributes in any human. Obviously if you want to attain a certain status of looks, you WILL have to give up a lot, but put aside all the risks, fears, and IFs - what if it works out? Imagine your life 5 years from now, you haven't taken any risks, you are at a mediocre level, and I bet in this reality, 9 times out of 10 you will have wished you had taken the risk, done something. Sacrifice something now for the top human experience for the rest of your life. Remember my friend, you are human, the chance of you being born is 1 in 10²,⁶⁸⁵,⁰⁰⁰ - That’s 1 in 10 followed by 2,685,000 zeroes. All odds have past yet you are here, so why not live your life to the fullest?
Last bit of lifefuel: Most really good surgery results are not on the internet as people will rather claim they never got operations, if there are this many good results to surgical procedures done online, imagine how many are just never posted, you will never know, and I wish you all to be in such a scenario.
I wish all of you happy ascending, remember to stay hopeful and live your life in good anticipation for the things to come. Never lose hope, there is always the next thing to come.
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