The Ultimate pubertymaxxing guide, an introduction into androgens and growth factors, and how to apply them.

[Dyorotic]

I made this thread. A deeply misguided 17 year old with a Wikipedia tier understanding of pharmacology & endocrinology

I did do almost everything though and whether or not I grew to 6ft2 due to gh/peptides/androgens is completely unfalsifiable.

I will say one thing though, all of this shit was insanely hard to source back in 2020. With Janoshik and QSC it's basically the golden era of generics. Growth has never been cheaper and higher quality before EVER.

Probably the most reliable way to grow for longer as a teenager would be via E2 suppression (whether that's through receptor modulation or aromatase inhibition) and keeping mTOR, Pi3k & other anabolic pathways open.

If you're going to use growth you NEED ancillaries that abate the inevitable insulin desensitization. This is something I didn't do back in 2020-2021 because I was reckless. GLP1 agonists are single-handedly the best insulin sensitizing agents, but they'll make it near impossible to get down the correct amount of calories required for growth (half-life & potency). There are short acting GLP1 agonists, but they're almost impossible to source (ideally you'd take it during sleep). Metformin is the obvious choice (inhibits gluconeogenesis, increases peripheral glucose uptake and utilization and drastically decreases glucose absorption from the intestines) and in conjunction with Growth hormone it'll actually INCREASE igf-1. Peroxisome proliferator receptor (PPARα, PPARγ, and PPARβ/δ) agonists may help too. Don't use SGLT-2 inhibitors.

If you can't afford growth then use CJC and hexarelin (you need metformin still) and also run pyridostigmine to negate somatostatin.

Don't use MK677 unless you want diabetes. IGF analogues aren't good and are honestly just pure cosmetics.

IN all seriousness though, the likelyhood of any of this working for height is very slim. Growth Hormone is fun because it'll destroy fat and you can bulk whilst simultaneously shedding bf%, it's just that strong at inducing lypolisis. GH also allows you to push the dosage on gear way higher and the nutrient partioning you get with Gear, GH & metformin is next level.

My advice would be to just accept your height and maximise your body with gear in your 20s. Also wear sunscreen and use a retinoid (tazarotene mogs)

 

[Delons]

I made this thread. A deeply misguided 17 year old with a Wikipedia tier understanding of pharmacology & endocrinology

I did do almost everything though and whether or not I grew to 6ft2 due to gh/peptides/androgens is completely unfalsifiable.

I will say one thing though, all of this shit was insanely hard to source back in 2020. With Janoshik and QSC it's basically the golden era of generics. Growth has never been cheaper and higher quality before EVER.

Probably the most reliable way to grow for longer as a teenager would be via E2 suppression (whether that's through receptor modulation or aromatase inhibition) and keeping mTOR, Pi3k & other anabolic pathways open.

If you're going to use growth you NEED ancillaries that abate the inevitable insulin desensitization. This is something I didn't do back in 2020-2021 because I was reckless. GLP1 agonists are single-handedly the best insulin sensitizing agents, but they'll make it near impossible to get down the correct amount of calories required for growth (half-life & potency). There are short acting GLP1 agonists, but they're almost impossible to source (ideally you'd take it during sleep). Metformin is the obvious choice (inhibits gluconeogenesis, increases peripheral glucose uptake and utilization and drastically decreases glucose absorption from the intestines) and in conjunction with Growth hormone it'll actually INCREASE igf-1. Peroxisome proliferator receptor (PPARα, PPARγ, and PPARβ/δ) agonists may help too. Don't use SGLT-2 inhibitors.

If you can't afford growth then use CJC and hexarelin (you need metformin still) and also run pyridostigmine to negate somatostatin.

Don't use MK677 unless you want diabetes. IGF analogues aren't good and are honestly just pure cosmetics.

IN all seriousness though, the likelyhood of any of this working for height is very slim. Growth Hormone is fun because it'll destroy fat and you can bulk whilst simultaneously shedding bf%, it's just that strong at inducing lypolisis. GH also allows you to push the dosage on gear way higher and the nutrient partioning you get with Gear, GH & metformin is next level.

My advice would be to just accept your height and maximise your body with gear in your 20s. Also wear sunscreen and use a retinoid (tazarotene mogs)

Why do you need metamorphin if you take cjc and hex, they don’t raise blood sugar do they?

 

[truecel12]

I made this thread. A deeply misguided 17 year old with a Wikipedia tier understanding of pharmacology & endocrinology

I did do almost everything though and whether or not I grew to 6ft2 due to gh/peptides/androgens is completely unfalsifiable.

I will say one thing though, all of this shit was insanely hard to source back in 2020. With Janoshik and QSC it's basically the golden era of generics. Growth has never been cheaper and higher quality before EVER.

Probably the most reliable way to grow for longer as a teenager would be via E2 suppression (whether that's through receptor modulation or aromatase inhibition) and keeping mTOR, Pi3k & other anabolic pathways open.

If you're going to use growth you NEED ancillaries that abate the inevitable insulin desensitization. This is something I didn't do back in 2020-2021 because I was reckless. GLP1 agonists are single-handedly the best insulin sensitizing agents, but they'll make it near impossible to get down the correct amount of calories required for growth (half-life & potency). There are short acting GLP1 agonists, but they're almost impossible to source (ideally you'd take it during sleep). Metformin is the obvious choice (inhibits gluconeogenesis, increases peripheral glucose uptake and utilization and drastically decreases glucose absorption from the intestines) and in conjunction with Growth hormone it'll actually INCREASE igf-1. Peroxisome proliferator receptor (PPARα, PPARγ, and PPARβ/δ) agonists may help too. Don't use SGLT-2 inhibitors.

If you can't afford growth then use CJC and hexarelin (you need metformin still) and also run pyridostigmine to negate somatostatin.

Don't use MK677 unless you want diabetes. IGF analogues aren't good and are honestly just pure cosmetics.

IN all seriousness though, the likelyhood of any of this working for height is very slim. Growth Hormone is fun because it'll destroy fat and you can bulk whilst simultaneously shedding bf%, it's just that strong at inducing lypolisis. GH also allows you to push the dosage on gear way higher and the nutrient partioning you get with Gear, GH & metformin is next level.

My advice would be to just accept your height and maximise your body with gear in your 20s. Also wear sunscreen and use a retinoid (tazarotene mogs)

woah wtf
what do you think of ru58841?
thinking of running dht gel but i am worried about norwooding.
thanks for coming back to this man.

 

[truecel12]

I made this thread. A deeply misguided 17 year old with a Wikipedia tier understanding of pharmacology & endocrinology

I did do almost everything though and whether or not I grew to 6ft2 due to gh/peptides/androgens is completely unfalsifiable.

I will say one thing though, all of this shit was insanely hard to source back in 2020. With Janoshik and QSC it's basically the golden era of generics. Growth has never been cheaper and higher quality before EVER.

Probably the most reliable way to grow for longer as a teenager would be via E2 suppression (whether that's through receptor modulation or aromatase inhibition) and keeping mTOR, Pi3k & other anabolic pathways open.

If you're going to use growth you NEED ancillaries that abate the inevitable insulin desensitization. This is something I didn't do back in 2020-2021 because I was reckless. GLP1 agonists are single-handedly the best insulin sensitizing agents, but they'll make it near impossible to get down the correct amount of calories required for growth (half-life & potency). There are short acting GLP1 agonists, but they're almost impossible to source (ideally you'd take it during sleep). Metformin is the obvious choice (inhibits gluconeogenesis, increases peripheral glucose uptake and utilization and drastically decreases glucose absorption from the intestines) and in conjunction with Growth hormone it'll actually INCREASE igf-1. Peroxisome proliferator receptor (PPARα, PPARγ, and PPARβ/δ) agonists may help too. Don't use SGLT-2 inhibitors.

If you can't afford growth then use CJC and hexarelin (you need metformin still) and also run pyridostigmine to negate somatostatin.

Don't use MK677 unless you want diabetes. IGF analogues aren't good and are honestly just pure cosmetics.

IN all seriousness though, the likelyhood of any of this working for height is very slim. Growth Hormone is fun because it'll destroy fat and you can bulk whilst simultaneously shedding bf%, it's just that strong at inducing lypolisis. GH also allows you to push the dosage on gear way higher and the nutrient partioning you get with Gear, GH & metformin is next level.

My advice would be to just accept your height and maximise your body with gear in your 20s. Also wear sunscreen and use a retinoid (tazarotene mogs)

also, i sound like a retard but i noticed you didnt use any form of ai in your stack, did the dht inhibit e2 enough to prevent plate closure?
if you could go back in time, what would you do differently other than using glp1 aganoists and pyridostigmine?

 

[ferfdd]

Preface:
I've had a lot of questions in my pm's recently regarding growth hormone, IGF-1, and androgens.
specifically, people asking me for sources and stacks, how they work, etc, I'm hoping this guide will be able to answer as many of your questions as possible.

Disclaimer:
this thread is going to be very long, I'm going, to begin with explaining each of these chemicals, their mechanisms, and functions whilst also citing studies,
if you're wanting to learn how to apply these chemicals to your protocol than skip down to where I begin talking about methods.

Introduction:
Okay, so this in this thread I'm going to do my best at explaining how growth factors and androgens
affect facial development, induce sexual dimorphism and vertical growth, I'm going to begin
explaining the biological mechanisms of these hormones and then how you can apply them
cost-effectively.

HGH:
Somatropin, commonly referred to as HGH or GH is a 191 amino acid chain that is produced by the pituitary gland,
this peptide stimulates growth, cell reproduction, and cell regeneration in humans and other animals. It is thus important in human development.
GH also stimulates the production of IGF-1 and increases the concentration of glucose and free fatty acids. It belongs to a family of hormones known as the growth hormone family. This also includes prolactin (PRL) and placental lactogen. Despite the obvious differences in function, these hormones share a very similar structure. Likewise, GH and PRL are the only two non-tropic hormones synthesized and released from the anterior pituitary gland. (So yes if you're taking cabergoline you will inhibit growth hormone as they are from the same family).

Growth hormone itself isn't actually what induces growth, it's the metabolites of somatropin that induce cell proliferation, hyperplasia, and hypertrophy.
this class of growth factors is called insulin-like growth factors, they are molecularly structured similar to that of insulin, somatropin is needed for the creation of IGF's within the liver. IGF-2 is the primary growth factor responsible for fetal development, whereas IGF-1 is the primary growth factor responsible for inducing growth within adolescent children. (more on insulin-like growth factors later).

somatropin is needed for the development of our bodies, the reason us looksmaxxers are obsessed with it is because of dimorphic growth-related effects
that are induced by the insulin-like growth factor family of hormones.

somatropin's effect on craniofacial development within children.




Yes, these children did have GHDD (growth hormone deficiency disorder), but this doesn't disprove that the usage of exogenous somatropin
can induce craniofacial growth. These children would have been administrated growth hormone dosages that would have aligned with normal children's endogenous production. Our goal with growth hormone is to increase the endogenous production of IGF-1 way above super physiological levels in order to affect our craniofacial growth. Keep in mind, in this study the children were dosed 0.5IU daily, that's around 15-fold less than what I suggest you should dose daily, and these children still reap the positive craniofacial benefits.

The abstract of a study based on how the GH/IGF-1 axis influences bone formation, growth, and remodeling.


somatropin's effect on hard tissue, bone formation, and osteoclasts.


somatropin effects on bone formation through osteoblasts.


The GH/IGF-1 axis and it's interaction with androgens when it comes to bone formation.



Insulin-like growth factors, specifically somatomedin-C (IGF-1):
IGF-1 is produced all the way throughout life. The highest rates of IGF-1 production occur during the pubertal growth spurt. The lowest levels occur in infancy and old age. This is why children grow rapidly during puberty, somatropin is at an all-time high, meaning more conversion to IGF-1, typically in healthy children, the baseline IGF-1 scoring is between 250-500ng/dl, although higher IGF-1 scoring is possible with exogenous intervention.

IGF-1 is a primary mediator of the effects of somatropin (GH), growth hormone is released into the bloodstream, and then stimulates the liver to produce insulin-like growth factors, we are specifically focusing on IGF-1. These IGF's then stimulate systemic body growth and has growth-promoting effects on almost every cell in the body, especially skeletal muscle, cartilage, bone, liver, etc... In addition to the insulin-like effects, IGF-1 can also regulate cellular DNA synthesis. IGF-1 is our friend, we want our levels to be sky-high during puberty to reap all of the dimorphic growth and surpass our genetic potential, there are some road blockages though, along with the insulin-like growth factor family comes the IGFBP's (insulin-like growth factor binding proteins) yeah it's a mouth full jfl. These proteins bind to IGF-1 and inhibit it from attaching to the IGF-1R, basically, it renders our IGF-1 useless within the body. These proteins, unfortunately, have a high affinity to bind to IGF's, there are counter measurements to these IGFBP's though, stay tuned.

Protein intake increases IGF-1 levels in humans, independent of total calorie consumption. Factors that are known to cause variation in the levels of growth hormone (GH) and IGF-1 in the circulation include insulin levels, genetic make-up, the time of day, age, sex, exercise status, stress levels, nutrition level and body mass index, disease state, ethnicity, and estrogen status.

I'm not going to be citing studies for IGF-1, as GH and IGF-1 fall in the same category, the GH/IGF-1 axis is what influences growth.

Androgens, androgenic metabolites, and pro-hormones:
despite the common knowledge surrounding testosterone there seems to be less appreciation when it comes to other androgens. Androgens are synthesized from cholesterol and are produced primarily in the gonads (testicles and ovaries) and also in the adrenal glands to a small extent. The testicles produce a much higher quantity than the ovaries in females. Dimorphic growth is heavily dependent on androgens, specifically testosterone, dihydrotestosterone (DHT), and dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA), I'm going to be underling each androgen, and their biological mechanisms.

View attachment 258656
Testosterone:
testosterone is the primary male sex hormone that is responsible for differentiating a male fetus from a female fetus, In male humans, testosterone plays a key role in the development of reproductive tissues such as testes and prostate, as well as promoting sexual dimorphisms such as increased muscle mass, bone mass and the growth of body hair. The pituitary gland located within the brain produces a signaling chemical called luteinizing hormone (LH), LH signals the Leydig cells within the testes to synthesize testosterone from cholesterol. Production of luteinizing hormone spikes during puberty, sending multiple signals to the Leydig cells to produce more testosterone, in turn, promoting masculinization and dimorphism to occur.

the effect of low dose testosterone on the craniofacial development in children with delayed puberty.


Keep in mind, these children didn't have zero testosterone, they were just experiencing delayed puberty, low dose testosterone was enough to kickstart their craniofacial development.

View attachment 258654
Dihydrotestosterone:
DHT is biologically important for sexual differentiation of the male genitalia during embryogenesis, maturation of the penis and scrotum at puberty, growth of facial, body and pubic hair, and development and maintenance of the prostate gland and seminal vesicles. It is produced from testosterone by an enzyme called 5-alpha-reductase (5AR) in select tissues and is the primary androgen in the genitals, prostate gland, seminal vesicles, skin, and hair follicles. Dihydrotestosterone can have up to 5x the potency of testosterone when it comes to inducing androgenic dimorphism, that isn't to say that testosterone isn't important though.

View attachment 258653
Androsterone:
Androsterone is an androgenic steroid derived via the activity of the enzyme 5-AR and is a downstream metabolite of the more potent androgen DHT. Like all 5-AR derived androgens, androsterone displays anti-estrogenic and anti-glucocorticoid activity and in addition, serves as a pro-hormone for DHT and other potent androgens. In addition, androsterone is a neurosteroid with potent GABA agonist activity and is known to function as a pheromone in many animal species including humans. It has been shown to possess anti-depressant and anti-proliferative effects. Perhaps most importantly, it has been found to act like as a potent thyroid mimetic and as such to increase basal temperature, oxygen consumption and lower lipid levels in humans.

androsterone and its effect on the masculinization of male fetuses.





View attachment 258780
dehydroepiandrosterone
Dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA), also known as androstenolone, is an endogenous steroid hormone. It is one of the most abundant circulating steroids in humans, in whom it is produced in the adrenal glands, the gonads, and the brain. It functions as a metabolic intermediate in the biosynthesis of the androgen and estrogen sex steroids both in the gonads and in various other tissues. On its own, it's a very weak androgen, but it potently converts to testosterone within certain tissue, it is more abundant within females than males as it also converts to estrogen.

How to apply these hormones to your protocol:

let's begin with the growth hormone/igf1 aspect to our protocol, our main goal is to induce craniofacial growth (specifically maxillary and mandibular growth), vertical growth, and dimorphism, this can be achieved via a multitude of method, here we go.

How to increase IGF-1 levels beyond the super physiological natural range
through the usage of exogenous GH and PEPTIDES:

Method 1:
Recombinant growth hormone:
increasing our IGF-1 levels beyond the super physiological range is simple, although I disagree with some of
@Extra Chromosome's opinions on heightmaxxing, I'm going to do my best to express my opinion as I have experience and knowledge within the field of GH and Peptides.

To begin with, I personally think the usage of recombinant growth hormone (synthetic bioidentical somatropin) is the best and most practical way to increase IGF-1 and induce growth, that's not to say that peptides don't have their place, but they aren't as effective as HGH (I'll go into more detail later). Recombinant growth hormone is expensive, very expensive, but if you source it correctly you can bypass the majority of the cost issues.

I'd suggest dosing HGH at around 5IU-8IU's daily. This will skyrocket your IGF-1, even more so if you're a teenager as the conversion rate from somatropin to IGF-1 is higher, in most growing teenagers this amount of GH will put you into the 700-900ng/dl range for IGF-1 scoring, at this level cell proliferation, hyperplasia and osteoblast/osteoclast activity will increase dramatically. In other words, you'll grow, vertically and horizontally. If your soul usage of HGH is for height gains than either exemestane, letrozole or Arimidex will suffice for aromatase inhibition.

To sum method 1 up:
5-8iu's of HGH ED
(optional) Aromatase inhibitor of your choice.

Method 2:
HGH combined with IGF-1 LR3 and IGF-1 DES.
the combination of both exogenous GH and exogenous IGF-1 is amazing. As I've mentioned above alongside insulin-like growth factors comes IGFBP's (Insulin-like growth factor binding proteins) IGFPB's have a high affinity to bind onto IGF-1 and IGF-2 within the bloodstream rendering them useless and unable to attach to the IGF-1R and IGF-2R, meaning a small portion of the HGH that we inject into ourselves is going to waste as these proteins are rendering the IGF-1 unable to function, there is a way around this.

the polypeptides IGF-LR3 and IGF-DES have a low affinity to bind to the IGFBP's, meaning they are up to 3x more potent than regular endogenous IGF-1. IGF-1LR3 also happens to have a half-life of up to 30 hours. IGF-DES is even more potent than LR3, the only downside is that it has a 30-minute half-life before it is metabolized by the body, DES also happens to be more localized, so we are going to opt for LR3 in this method as it is more systemic than DES. The combination of HGH and exogenous IGF-1 will guarantee growth. (if your plates are open of course).

To sum method 2 up:
5-8iu's of HGH ED
IGF-1 LR3 100mcg ED
(optional) IGF-1 DES 50mcg ED
(optional) Aromatase inhibitor

Method 3
Peptide protocol.
peptides can be great for increasing serum levels of growth hormone and inevitably increasing IGF-1 scoring within the blood, the reason why I prefer synthetic GH is that the pituitary gland can only produce so much GH, meaning there is a limit to the number of signals it can take to produce a certain amount of somatropin. For example, you could inject more exogenous GH than you could make endogenous GH with the help of peptides, I hope that makes sense. Peptides can still boost your IGF-1 scoring beyond the natural range, some peptides even stimulate the Pi3k pathways, which is a bonus.

peptides are split up into 2 categories, GHRH's and GHRP's, our bodies make growth hormone-releasing hormone to signal the somatroph cells to produce somatropin within the pituitary gland, GHRH peptides basically tell the pituitary to release GH, growth hormone-releasing peptides basically amplify the production of growth hormone that is being secreted, stacking both a GHRH and a GHRP is necessary for increasing IGF-1 as they synergize well.

here's the peptide protocol that I recommend, whilst on this stack my IGF-1 came back at over 800ng/dl, in that time period I grew an inch and a half in height within 2 and a half months.



switching back and forth from hexarelin and GHRP-2 is necessary as desensitization will occur whilst using hexarelin at any dosage for longer than 14 days. Having 14 days off and 7 days on allows your body to sensitize to the peptide again. I do not recommend the usage of CJC DAC as it has been proven to cause damage to the pituitary gland with chronic usage.

Okay, that sums up the GH/IGF-1 section, overall I'd say if you're on a budget than peptides is the route you should take, if you have more money to spend than go for HGH if you're really fucking determined than take the HGH/IGF-1LR3 route.

The good thing about working with somatropin and peptides is that exogenous usage won't cause a negative feedback loop to occur, meaning if you discontinue the usage of growth hormone you won't feel like shit as you would with testosterone (unless you do a correct PCT). Your endogenous somatropin will begin producing normally again.

How to increase endogenous androgen activity without causing suppression
or shutdown from occurring:
working with androgens can be tricky and dangerous, you can take two routes with androgens, you can either take metabolites and non-suppressive prohormones or you can take androgens like testosterone and cause a shutdown.

the usage of androgens such as dehydroepiandrosterone and androsterone along with progesterone can be of great benefit to those who are looking
to masculinize themselves without using testosterone. dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) is one of the most abundant steroid hormones within the human body, it is produced by the adrenals and can be converted to either testosterone or estrogen. The supplementation of exogenous DHEA alone can lead to both an increase in estrogen and testosterone, combining DHEA with androsterone is a good idea as androsterone is a very powerful anti-aromatase, estrogen isn't the enemy, it's just having high estrogen is a negative, inhibiting the aromatase enzyme from converting testosterone from converting to estrogen allows for the DHEA to convert into testosterone smoothly without a spike in estrogen as your original estrogen will just be replaced.

View attachment 258661
The usage of Delta-sleep-inducing-peptide to increase natural testosterone:
my recent findings suggest that the usage of the delta-sleep inducing peptide (DSIP) can greatly benefit steroid users who are trying to regain their LH production.
DSIP increases the amount of gonadotropin that is being secreted at night time, gonadotropin signals the pituitary gland to produce LH, that LH than signals the Leydig cells to synthesize testosterone from cholesterol. More gonadotropin signaling = more luteinizing hormone signaling meaning more testosterone being made. DSIP also happens to block corticotropin from releasing cortisol, meaning cortisol cannot antagonize testosterone, leaving you with more testosterone to circulate the bloodstream. DSIP also blocks the release of somatostatin (growth hormone inhibiting hormone), somatostatins role is to lower growth hormone if it raises to high, so by blocking the release of this hormone we are preventing our blood serum level of GH dropping.

Delta-sleep inducing peptide is a must for those looking to increase testosterone without the usage of AAS or those who are using peptides and/or Recombinant GH, as it has potent somatostatin inhibiting properties.
check out my thread on DSIP

The usage of HCG
human chorionic gonadotropin is an LH mimic that can be injected subcutaneously, it acts the exact same way that LH does in that it signals the Leydig cells to produce testosterone, HCG will keep your balls from shrinking if you're running testosterone on an AAS cycle. It can increase testosterone but it has a tendency to also increase estrogen, in combination with testosterone it can induce dimorphism greatly, whilst maintaining testicular functions and fertility, it can also be implemented to make your PCT easier.

The usage of exogenous testosterone:
the usage of exogenous testosterone can greatly induce sexual dimorphism, increase bone density, anabolism, protein synthesis, and nitrogen retention. Whilst also saturated the androgen receptors. There are obvious downsides to the usage, but if done effectively there shouldn't be any issues. For teenagers willing to run testosterone, (I don't condone the usage) I'd suggest using testosterone base (no ester attached) dissolved into DMSO applied to the skin, I'd also suggest that you take the best measure to run a safe and sought out PCT.

The usage of exogenous dihydrotestosterone (androstanolone)
dihydrotestosterone can be very beneficial for those who are in the midst of puberty, at the correct dosages it isn't very suppressive and if minimal suppression occurs, then you can easily bounce back. Androstanolone is a synthetic DHT that is bioidentical to DHT. The usage of dihydrotestosterone will have an intense masculinizing effect, if you're in puberty it may affect the size of your penis and frame.

You can make a transdermal concoction with DMSO and androstanolone, with a high absorption rate. Androstanolone is an extremely androgenic steroid hormone, it has highly anti-estrogenic properties so be cautious with the dosages if you don't want to crash your E2 levels.
check out my thread on dihydrotestosterone

conclusion
a combination of both high dosages of either recombinant growth hormone or peptides alongside the optimization or exogenous usage of androgens is synergistic when it comes to craniofacial forward growth, sexual dimorphism and vertical growth.

here's my current stack for perspective.


this took like 3 days to make because I'm a lazy cunt, anyways hoped you gained something from it.

View attachment 258787

hoping that'll answer some questions for you guys.
@JustTrynaGrow @Slyfex8 @draco @Don't Forget to mew @Tom2004 @Crazzen8 @ht-normie-ascending @Dr Shekelberg @forwardgrowth @maxmendietta @PubertyMaxxer @apollothegun @KKK

​

Where to buy if U live in the uk

 

[aerooooo]

Where to buy if U live in the uk

hmmm

 

[tempelcat4]

I made this thread. A deeply misguided 17 year old with a Wikipedia tier understanding of pharmacology & endocrinology

I did do almost everything though and whether or not I grew to 6ft2 due to gh/peptides/androgens is completely unfalsifiable.

I will say one thing though, all of this shit was insanely hard to source back in 2020. With Janoshik and QSC it's basically the golden era of generics. Growth has never been cheaper and higher quality before EVER.

Probably the most reliable way to grow for longer as a teenager would be via E2 suppression (whether that's through receptor modulation or aromatase inhibition) and keeping mTOR, Pi3k & other anabolic pathways open.

If you're going to use growth you NEED ancillaries that abate the inevitable insulin desensitization. This is something I didn't do back in 2020-2021 because I was reckless. GLP1 agonists are single-handedly the best insulin sensitizing agents, but they'll make it near impossible to get down the correct amount of calories required for growth (half-life & potency). There are short acting GLP1 agonists, but they're almost impossible to source (ideally you'd take it during sleep). Metformin is the obvious choice (inhibits gluconeogenesis, increases peripheral glucose uptake and utilization and drastically decreases glucose absorption from the intestines) and in conjunction with Growth hormone it'll actually INCREASE igf-1. Peroxisome proliferator receptor (PPARα, PPARγ, and PPARβ/δ) agonists may help too. Don't use SGLT-2 inhibitors.

If you can't afford growth then use CJC and hexarelin (you need metformin still) and also run pyridostigmine to negate somatostatin.

Don't use MK677 unless you want diabetes. IGF analogues aren't good and are honestly just pure cosmetics.

IN all seriousness though, the likelyhood of any of this working for height is very slim. Growth Hormone is fun because it'll destroy fat and you can bulk whilst simultaneously shedding bf%, it's just that strong at inducing lypolisis. GH also allows you to push the dosage on gear way higher and the nutrient partioning you get with Gear, GH & metformin is next level.

My advice would be to just accept your height and maximise your body with gear in your 20s. Also wear sunscreen and use a retinoid (tazarotene mogs)

Bitte antworte mir hier oder schreibe mir privat, du würdest mir sehr helfen mit ein paar antworten…

 

[Dyorotic]

Bitte antworte mir hier oder schreibe mir privat, du würdest mir sehr helfen mit ein paar antworten…

just ask here

 

[Driler]

I made this thread. A deeply misguided 17 year old with a Wikipedia tier understanding of pharmacology & endocrinology

I did do almost everything though and whether or not I grew to 6ft2 due to gh/peptides/androgens is completely unfalsifiable.

I will say one thing though, all of this shit was insanely hard to source back in 2020. With Janoshik and QSC it's basically the golden era of generics. Growth has never been cheaper and higher quality before EVER.

Probably the most reliable way to grow for longer as a teenager would be via E2 suppression (whether that's through receptor modulation or aromatase inhibition) and keeping mTOR, Pi3k & other anabolic pathways open.

If you're going to use growth you NEED ancillaries that abate the inevitable insulin desensitization. This is something I didn't do back in 2020-2021 because I was reckless. GLP1 agonists are single-handedly the best insulin sensitizing agents, but they'll make it near impossible to get down the correct amount of calories required for growth (half-life & potency). There are short acting GLP1 agonists, but they're almost impossible to source (ideally you'd take it during sleep). Metformin is the obvious choice (inhibits gluconeogenesis, increases peripheral glucose uptake and utilization and drastically decreases glucose absorption from the intestines) and in conjunction with Growth hormone it'll actually INCREASE igf-1. Peroxisome proliferator receptor (PPARα, PPARγ, and PPARβ/δ) agonists may help too. Don't use SGLT-2 inhibitors.

If you can't afford growth then use CJC and hexarelin (you need metformin still) and also run pyridostigmine to negate somatostatin.

Don't use MK677 unless you want diabetes. IGF analogues aren't good and are honestly just pure cosmetics.

IN all seriousness though, the likelyhood of any of this working for height is very slim. Growth Hormone is fun because it'll destroy fat and you can bulk whilst simultaneously shedding bf%, it's just that strong at inducing lypolisis. GH also allows you to push the dosage on gear way higher and the nutrient partioning you get with Gear, GH & metformin is next level.

My advice would be to just accept your height and maximise your body with gear in your 20s. Also wear sunscreen and use a retinoid (tazarotene mogs)

I have a few question regarding my worries of possible long term health ramifications that could stem from these sorts of protocols. Im assuming you are 21 now, so did you stay on trt after this or came off. Did you crush your e2 when you were 17 and if so for how long? Do you notice any sings that indicate of lower serotonergic activity since then? How are your cardiac risk factors now if you do bloodwork?

 

[Dyorotic]

I have a few question regarding my worries of possible long term health ramifications that could stem from these sorts of protocols. Im assuming you are 21 now, so did you stay on trt after this or came off. Did you crush your e2 when you were 17 and if so for how long? Do you notice any sings that indicate of lower serotonergic activity since then? How are your cardiac risk factors now if you do bloodwork?

I use steroids on and off now so I definitely never came off so to speak

I'm pretty diligent about my ancillaries and take telmisartan & nebivolol. For lipids I do cycles of Cardarine and do the usual Niacin, Omega 3 and other slop

 

[Driler]

I use steroids on and off now so I definitely never came off so to speak

I'm pretty diligent about my ancillaries and take telmisartan & nebivolol. For lipids I do cycles of Cardarine and do the usual Niacin, Omega 3 and other slop

Do you think you inflicted any long term damage on the endothelial tissue that would increase your cardiovascular risk forever. Estrogen is crucial for endothelial tissue health and development and as we know it also modulates lipids positively. Both of those two things can hinder cardiovascular health. I am wondering if crushing e2 during teens poses any additional consequences on health that doing so in your 30s wouldn't pose. Also what do you think about possibility of reduction in serotenergic activity in developmental years having long lasting effects on brain chemistry

 

[ggg.tv🤫]

Preface:
I've had a lot of questions in my pm's recently regarding growth hormone, IGF-1, and androgens.
specifically, people asking me for sources and stacks, how they work, etc, I'm hoping this guide will be able to answer as many of your questions as possible.

Disclaimer:
this thread is going to be very long, I'm going, to begin with explaining each of these chemicals, their mechanisms, and functions whilst also citing studies,
if you're wanting to learn how to apply these chemicals to your protocol than skip down to where I begin talking about methods.

Introduction:
Okay, so this in this thread I'm going to do my best at explaining how growth factors and androgens
affect facial development, induce sexual dimorphism and vertical growth, I'm going to begin
explaining the biological mechanisms of these hormones and then how you can apply them
cost-effectively.

HGH:
Somatropin, commonly referred to as HGH or GH is a 191 amino acid chain that is produced by the pituitary gland,
this peptide stimulates growth, cell reproduction, and cell regeneration in humans and other animals. It is thus important in human development.
GH also stimulates the production of IGF-1 and increases the concentration of glucose and free fatty acids. It belongs to a family of hormones known as the growth hormone family. This also includes prolactin (PRL) and placental lactogen. Despite the obvious differences in function, these hormones share a very similar structure. Likewise, GH and PRL are the only two non-tropic hormones synthesized and released from the anterior pituitary gland. (So yes if you're taking cabergoline you will inhibit growth hormone as they are from the same family).

Growth hormone itself isn't actually what induces growth, it's the metabolites of somatropin that induce cell proliferation, hyperplasia, and hypertrophy.
this class of growth factors is called insulin-like growth factors, they are molecularly structured similar to that of insulin, somatropin is needed for the creation of IGF's within the liver. IGF-2 is the primary growth factor responsible for fetal development, whereas IGF-1 is the primary growth factor responsible for inducing growth within adolescent children. (more on insulin-like growth factors later).

somatropin is needed for the development of our bodies, the reason us looksmaxxers are obsessed with it is because of dimorphic growth-related effects
that are induced by the insulin-like growth factor family of hormones.

somatropin's effect on craniofacial development within children.




Yes, these children did have GHDD (growth hormone deficiency disorder), but this doesn't disprove that the usage of exogenous somatropin
can induce craniofacial growth. These children would have been administrated growth hormone dosages that would have aligned with normal children's endogenous production. Our goal with growth hormone is to increase the endogenous production of IGF-1 way above super physiological levels in order to affect our craniofacial growth. Keep in mind, in this study the children were dosed 0.5IU daily, that's around 15-fold less than what I suggest you should dose daily, and these children still reap the positive craniofacial benefits.

The abstract of a study based on how the GH/IGF-1 axis influences bone formation, growth, and remodeling.


somatropin's effect on hard tissue, bone formation, and osteoclasts.


somatropin effects on bone formation through osteoblasts.


The GH/IGF-1 axis and it's interaction with androgens when it comes to bone formation.



Insulin-like growth factors, specifically somatomedin-C (IGF-1):
IGF-1 is produced all the way throughout life. The highest rates of IGF-1 production occur during the pubertal growth spurt. The lowest levels occur in infancy and old age. This is why children grow rapidly during puberty, somatropin is at an all-time high, meaning more conversion to IGF-1, typically in healthy children, the baseline IGF-1 scoring is between 250-500ng/dl, although higher IGF-1 scoring is possible with exogenous intervention.

IGF-1 is a primary mediator of the effects of somatropin (GH), growth hormone is released into the bloodstream, and then stimulates the liver to produce insulin-like growth factors, we are specifically focusing on IGF-1. These IGF's then stimulate systemic body growth and has growth-promoting effects on almost every cell in the body, especially skeletal muscle, cartilage, bone, liver, etc... In addition to the insulin-like effects, IGF-1 can also regulate cellular DNA synthesis. IGF-1 is our friend, we want our levels to be sky-high during puberty to reap all of the dimorphic growth and surpass our genetic potential, there are some road blockages though, along with the insulin-like growth factor family comes the IGFBP's (insulin-like growth factor binding proteins) yeah it's a mouth full jfl. These proteins bind to IGF-1 and inhibit it from attaching to the IGF-1R, basically, it renders our IGF-1 useless within the body. These proteins, unfortunately, have a high affinity to bind to IGF's, there are counter measurements to these IGFBP's though, stay tuned.

Protein intake increases IGF-1 levels in humans, independent of total calorie consumption. Factors that are known to cause variation in the levels of growth hormone (GH) and IGF-1 in the circulation include insulin levels, genetic make-up, the time of day, age, sex, exercise status, stress levels, nutrition level and body mass index, disease state, ethnicity, and estrogen status.

I'm not going to be citing studies for IGF-1, as GH and IGF-1 fall in the same category, the GH/IGF-1 axis is what influences growth.

Androgens, androgenic metabolites, and pro-hormones:
despite the common knowledge surrounding testosterone there seems to be less appreciation when it comes to other androgens. Androgens are synthesized from cholesterol and are produced primarily in the gonads (testicles and ovaries) and also in the adrenal glands to a small extent. The testicles produce a much higher quantity than the ovaries in females. Dimorphic growth is heavily dependent on androgens, specifically testosterone, dihydrotestosterone (DHT), and dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA), I'm going to be underling each androgen, and their biological mechanisms.

View attachment 258656
Testosterone:
testosterone is the primary male sex hormone that is responsible for differentiating a male fetus from a female fetus, In male humans, testosterone plays a key role in the development of reproductive tissues such as testes and prostate, as well as promoting sexual dimorphisms such as increased muscle mass, bone mass and the growth of body hair. The pituitary gland located within the brain produces a signaling chemical called luteinizing hormone (LH), LH signals the Leydig cells within the testes to synthesize testosterone from cholesterol. Production of luteinizing hormone spikes during puberty, sending multiple signals to the Leydig cells to produce more testosterone, in turn, promoting masculinization and dimorphism to occur.

the effect of low dose testosterone on the craniofacial development in children with delayed puberty.


Keep in mind, these children didn't have zero testosterone, they were just experiencing delayed puberty, low dose testosterone was enough to kickstart their craniofacial development.

View attachment 258654
Dihydrotestosterone:
DHT is biologically important for sexual differentiation of the male genitalia during embryogenesis, maturation of the penis and scrotum at puberty, growth of facial, body and pubic hair, and development and maintenance of the prostate gland and seminal vesicles. It is produced from testosterone by an enzyme called 5-alpha-reductase (5AR) in select tissues and is the primary androgen in the genitals, prostate gland, seminal vesicles, skin, and hair follicles. Dihydrotestosterone can have up to 5x the potency of testosterone when it comes to inducing androgenic dimorphism, that isn't to say that testosterone isn't important though.

View attachment 258653
Androsterone:
Androsterone is an androgenic steroid derived via the activity of the enzyme 5-AR and is a downstream metabolite of the more potent androgen DHT. Like all 5-AR derived androgens, androsterone displays anti-estrogenic and anti-glucocorticoid activity and in addition, serves as a pro-hormone for DHT and other potent androgens. In addition, androsterone is a neurosteroid with potent GABA agonist activity and is known to function as a pheromone in many animal species including humans. It has been shown to possess anti-depressant and anti-proliferative effects. Perhaps most importantly, it has been found to act like as a potent thyroid mimetic and as such to increase basal temperature, oxygen consumption and lower lipid levels in humans.

androsterone and its effect on the masculinization of male fetuses.





View attachment 258780
dehydroepiandrosterone
Dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA), also known as androstenolone, is an endogenous steroid hormone. It is one of the most abundant circulating steroids in humans, in whom it is produced in the adrenal glands, the gonads, and the brain. It functions as a metabolic intermediate in the biosynthesis of the androgen and estrogen sex steroids both in the gonads and in various other tissues. On its own, it's a very weak androgen, but it potently converts to testosterone within certain tissue, it is more abundant within females than males as it also converts to estrogen.

How to apply these hormones to your protocol:

let's begin with the growth hormone/igf1 aspect to our protocol, our main goal is to induce craniofacial growth (specifically maxillary and mandibular growth), vertical growth, and dimorphism, this can be achieved via a multitude of method, here we go.

How to increase IGF-1 levels beyond the super physiological natural range
through the usage of exogenous GH and PEPTIDES:

Method 1:
Recombinant growth hormone:
increasing our IGF-1 levels beyond the super physiological range is simple, although I disagree with some of
@Extra Chromosome's opinions on heightmaxxing, I'm going to do my best to express my opinion as I have experience and knowledge within the field of GH and Peptides.

To begin with, I personally think the usage of recombinant growth hormone (synthetic bioidentical somatropin) is the best and most practical way to increase IGF-1 and induce growth, that's not to say that peptides don't have their place, but they aren't as effective as HGH (I'll go into more detail later). Recombinant growth hormone is expensive, very expensive, but if you source it correctly you can bypass the majority of the cost issues.

I'd suggest dosing HGH at around 5IU-8IU's daily. This will skyrocket your IGF-1, even more so if you're a teenager as the conversion rate from somatropin to IGF-1 is higher, in most growing teenagers this amount of GH will put you into the 700-900ng/dl range for IGF-1 scoring, at this level cell proliferation, hyperplasia and osteoblast/osteoclast activity will increase dramatically. In other words, you'll grow, vertically and horizontally. If your soul usage of HGH is for height gains than either exemestane, letrozole or Arimidex will suffice for aromatase inhibition.

To sum method 1 up:
5-8iu's of HGH ED
(optional) Aromatase inhibitor of your choice.

Method 2:
HGH combined with IGF-1 LR3 and IGF-1 DES.
the combination of both exogenous GH and exogenous IGF-1 is amazing. As I've mentioned above alongside insulin-like growth factors comes IGFBP's (Insulin-like growth factor binding proteins) IGFPB's have a high affinity to bind onto IGF-1 and IGF-2 within the bloodstream rendering them useless and unable to attach to the IGF-1R and IGF-2R, meaning a small portion of the HGH that we inject into ourselves is going to waste as these proteins are rendering the IGF-1 unable to function, there is a way around this.

the polypeptides IGF-LR3 and IGF-DES have a low affinity to bind to the IGFBP's, meaning they are up to 3x more potent than regular endogenous IGF-1. IGF-1LR3 also happens to have a half-life of up to 30 hours. IGF-DES is even more potent than LR3, the only downside is that it has a 30-minute half-life before it is metabolized by the body, DES also happens to be more localized, so we are going to opt for LR3 in this method as it is more systemic than DES. The combination of HGH and exogenous IGF-1 will guarantee growth. (if your plates are open of course).

To sum method 2 up:
5-8iu's of HGH ED
IGF-1 LR3 100mcg ED
(optional) IGF-1 DES 50mcg ED
(optional) Aromatase inhibitor

Method 3
Peptide protocol.
peptides can be great for increasing serum levels of growth hormone and inevitably increasing IGF-1 scoring within the blood, the reason why I prefer synthetic GH is that the pituitary gland can only produce so much GH, meaning there is a limit to the number of signals it can take to produce a certain amount of somatropin. For example, you could inject more exogenous GH than you could make endogenous GH with the help of peptides, I hope that makes sense. Peptides can still boost your IGF-1 scoring beyond the natural range, some peptides even stimulate the Pi3k pathways, which is a bonus.

peptides are split up into 2 categories, GHRH's and GHRP's, our bodies make growth hormone-releasing hormone to signal the somatroph cells to produce somatropin within the pituitary gland, GHRH peptides basically tell the pituitary to release GH, growth hormone-releasing peptides basically amplify the production of growth hormone that is being secreted, stacking both a GHRH and a GHRP is necessary for increasing IGF-1 as they synergize well.

here's the peptide protocol that I recommend, whilst on this stack my IGF-1 came back at over 800ng/dl, in that time period I grew an inch and a half in height within 2 and a half months.



switching back and forth from hexarelin and GHRP-2 is necessary as desensitization will occur whilst using hexarelin at any dosage for longer than 14 days. Having 14 days off and 7 days on allows your body to sensitize to the peptide again. I do not recommend the usage of CJC DAC as it has been proven to cause damage to the pituitary gland with chronic usage.

Okay, that sums up the GH/IGF-1 section, overall I'd say if you're on a budget than peptides is the route you should take, if you have more money to spend than go for HGH if you're really fucking determined than take the HGH/IGF-1LR3 route.

The good thing about working with somatropin and peptides is that exogenous usage won't cause a negative feedback loop to occur, meaning if you discontinue the usage of growth hormone you won't feel like shit as you would with testosterone (unless you do a correct PCT). Your endogenous somatropin will begin producing normally again.

How to increase endogenous androgen activity without causing suppression
or shutdown from occurring:
working with androgens can be tricky and dangerous, you can take two routes with androgens, you can either take metabolites and non-suppressive prohormones or you can take androgens like testosterone and cause a shutdown.

the usage of androgens such as dehydroepiandrosterone and androsterone along with progesterone can be of great benefit to those who are looking
to masculinize themselves without using testosterone. dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) is one of the most abundant steroid hormones within the human body, it is produced by the adrenals and can be converted to either testosterone or estrogen. The supplementation of exogenous DHEA alone can lead to both an increase in estrogen and testosterone, combining DHEA with androsterone is a good idea as androsterone is a very powerful anti-aromatase, estrogen isn't the enemy, it's just having high estrogen is a negative, inhibiting the aromatase enzyme from converting testosterone from converting to estrogen allows for the DHEA to convert into testosterone smoothly without a spike in estrogen as your original estrogen will just be replaced.

View attachment 258661
The usage of Delta-sleep-inducing-peptide to increase natural testosterone:
my recent findings suggest that the usage of the delta-sleep inducing peptide (DSIP) can greatly benefit steroid users who are trying to regain their LH production.
DSIP increases the amount of gonadotropin that is being secreted at night time, gonadotropin signals the pituitary gland to produce LH, that LH than signals the Leydig cells to synthesize testosterone from cholesterol. More gonadotropin signaling = more luteinizing hormone signaling meaning more testosterone being made. DSIP also happens to block corticotropin from releasing cortisol, meaning cortisol cannot antagonize testosterone, leaving you with more testosterone to circulate the bloodstream. DSIP also blocks the release of somatostatin (growth hormone inhibiting hormone), somatostatins role is to lower growth hormone if it raises to high, so by blocking the release of this hormone we are preventing our blood serum level of GH dropping.

Delta-sleep inducing peptide is a must for those looking to increase testosterone without the usage of AAS or those who are using peptides and/or Recombinant GH, as it has potent somatostatin inhibiting properties.
check out my thread on DSIP

The usage of HCG
human chorionic gonadotropin is an LH mimic that can be injected subcutaneously, it acts the exact same way that LH does in that it signals the Leydig cells to produce testosterone, HCG will keep your balls from shrinking if you're running testosterone on an AAS cycle. It can increase testosterone but it has a tendency to also increase estrogen, in combination with testosterone it can induce dimorphism greatly, whilst maintaining testicular functions and fertility, it can also be implemented to make your PCT easier.

The usage of exogenous testosterone:
the usage of exogenous testosterone can greatly induce sexual dimorphism, increase bone density, anabolism, protein synthesis, and nitrogen retention. Whilst also saturated the androgen receptors. There are obvious downsides to the usage, but if done effectively there shouldn't be any issues. For teenagers willing to run testosterone, (I don't condone the usage) I'd suggest using testosterone base (no ester attached) dissolved into DMSO applied to the skin, I'd also suggest that you take the best measure to run a safe and sought out PCT.

The usage of exogenous dihydrotestosterone (androstanolone)
dihydrotestosterone can be very beneficial for those who are in the midst of puberty, at the correct dosages it isn't very suppressive and if minimal suppression occurs, then you can easily bounce back. Androstanolone is a synthetic DHT that is bioidentical to DHT. The usage of dihydrotestosterone will have an intense masculinizing effect, if you're in puberty it may affect the size of your penis and frame.

You can make a transdermal concoction with DMSO and androstanolone, with a high absorption rate. Androstanolone is an extremely androgenic steroid hormone, it has highly anti-estrogenic properties so be cautious with the dosages if you don't want to crash your E2 levels.
check out my thread on dihydrotestosterone

conclusion
a combination of both high dosages of either recombinant growth hormone or peptides alongside the optimization or exogenous usage of androgens is synergistic when it comes to craniofacial forward growth, sexual dimorphism and vertical growth.

here's my current stack for perspective.


this took like 3 days to make because I'm a lazy cunt, anyways hoped you gained something from it.

View attachment 258787

hoping that'll answer some questions for you guys.
@JustTrynaGrow @Slyfex8 @draco @Don't Forget to mew @Tom2004 @Crazzen8 @ht-normie-ascending @Dr Shekelberg @forwardgrowth @maxmendietta @PubertyMaxxer @apollothegun @KKK

​

Great thread read everything

 

[MA_ascender]

I made this thread. A deeply misguided 17 year old with a Wikipedia tier understanding of pharmacology & endocrinology

I did do almost everything though and whether or not I grew to 6ft2 due to gh/peptides/androgens is completely unfalsifiable.

I will say one thing though, all of this shit was insanely hard to source back in 2020. With Janoshik and QSC it's basically the golden era of generics. Growth has never been cheaper and higher quality before EVER.

Probably the most reliable way to grow for longer as a teenager would be via E2 suppression (whether that's through receptor modulation or aromatase inhibition) and keeping mTOR, Pi3k & other anabolic pathways open.

If you're going to use growth you NEED ancillaries that abate the inevitable insulin desensitization. This is something I didn't do back in 2020-2021 because I was reckless. GLP1 agonists are single-handedly the best insulin sensitizing agents, but they'll make it near impossible to get down the correct amount of calories required for growth (half-life & potency). There are short acting GLP1 agonists, but they're almost impossible to source (ideally you'd take it during sleep). Metformin is the obvious choice (inhibits gluconeogenesis, increases peripheral glucose uptake and utilization and drastically decreases glucose absorption from the intestines) and in conjunction with Growth hormone it'll actually INCREASE igf-1. Peroxisome proliferator receptor (PPARα, PPARγ, and PPARβ/δ) agonists may help too. Don't use SGLT-2 inhibitors.

If you can't afford growth then use CJC and hexarelin (you need metformin still) and also run pyridostigmine to negate somatostatin.

Don't use MK677 unless you want diabetes. IGF analogues aren't good and are honestly just pure cosmetics.

IN all seriousness though, the likelyhood of any of this working for height is very slim. Growth Hormone is fun because it'll destroy fat and you can bulk whilst simultaneously shedding bf%, it's just that strong at inducing lypolisis. GH also allows you to push the dosage on gear way higher and the nutrient partioning you get with Gear, GH & metformin is next level.

My advice would be to just accept your height and maximise your body with gear in your 20s. Also wear sunscreen and use a retinoid (tazarotene mogs)

high IQ. please send a dm it seems like youve locked them or smth

 

[Deleted member 66574]

Preface:
I've had a lot of questions in my pm's recently regarding growth hormone, IGF-1, and androgens.
specifically, people asking me for sources and stacks, how they work, etc, I'm hoping this guide will be able to answer as many of your questions as possible.

Disclaimer:
this thread is going to be very long, I'm going, to begin with explaining each of these chemicals, their mechanisms, and functions whilst also citing studies,
if you're wanting to learn how to apply these chemicals to your protocol than skip down to where I begin talking about methods.

Introduction:
Okay, so this in this thread I'm going to do my best at explaining how growth factors and androgens
affect facial development, induce sexual dimorphism and vertical growth, I'm going to begin
explaining the biological mechanisms of these hormones and then how you can apply them
cost-effectively.

HGH:
Somatropin, commonly referred to as HGH or GH is a 191 amino acid chain that is produced by the pituitary gland,
this peptide stimulates growth, cell reproduction, and cell regeneration in humans and other animals. It is thus important in human development.
GH also stimulates the production of IGF-1 and increases the concentration of glucose and free fatty acids. It belongs to a family of hormones known as the growth hormone family. This also includes prolactin (PRL) and placental lactogen. Despite the obvious differences in function, these hormones share a very similar structure. Likewise, GH and PRL are the only two non-tropic hormones synthesized and released from the anterior pituitary gland. (So yes if you're taking cabergoline you will inhibit growth hormone as they are from the same family).

Growth hormone itself isn't actually what induces growth, it's the metabolites of somatropin that induce cell proliferation, hyperplasia, and hypertrophy.
this class of growth factors is called insulin-like growth factors, they are molecularly structured similar to that of insulin, somatropin is needed for the creation of IGF's within the liver. IGF-2 is the primary growth factor responsible for fetal development, whereas IGF-1 is the primary growth factor responsible for inducing growth within adolescent children. (more on insulin-like growth factors later).

somatropin is needed for the development of our bodies, the reason us looksmaxxers are obsessed with it is because of dimorphic growth-related effects
that are induced by the insulin-like growth factor family of hormones.

somatropin's effect on craniofacial development within children.




Yes, these children did have GHDD (growth hormone deficiency disorder), but this doesn't disprove that the usage of exogenous somatropin
can induce craniofacial growth. These children would have been administrated growth hormone dosages that would have aligned with normal children's endogenous production. Our goal with growth hormone is to increase the endogenous production of IGF-1 way above super physiological levels in order to affect our craniofacial growth. Keep in mind, in this study the children were dosed 0.5IU daily, that's around 15-fold less than what I suggest you should dose daily, and these children still reap the positive craniofacial benefits.

The abstract of a study based on how the GH/IGF-1 axis influences bone formation, growth, and remodeling.


somatropin's effect on hard tissue, bone formation, and osteoclasts.


somatropin effects on bone formation through osteoblasts.


The GH/IGF-1 axis and it's interaction with androgens when it comes to bone formation.



Insulin-like growth factors, specifically somatomedin-C (IGF-1):
IGF-1 is produced all the way throughout life. The highest rates of IGF-1 production occur during the pubertal growth spurt. The lowest levels occur in infancy and old age. This is why children grow rapidly during puberty, somatropin is at an all-time high, meaning more conversion to IGF-1, typically in healthy children, the baseline IGF-1 scoring is between 250-500ng/dl, although higher IGF-1 scoring is possible with exogenous intervention.

IGF-1 is a primary mediator of the effects of somatropin (GH), growth hormone is released into the bloodstream, and then stimulates the liver to produce insulin-like growth factors, we are specifically focusing on IGF-1. These IGF's then stimulate systemic body growth and has growth-promoting effects on almost every cell in the body, especially skeletal muscle, cartilage, bone, liver, etc... In addition to the insulin-like effects, IGF-1 can also regulate cellular DNA synthesis. IGF-1 is our friend, we want our levels to be sky-high during puberty to reap all of the dimorphic growth and surpass our genetic potential, there are some road blockages though, along with the insulin-like growth factor family comes the IGFBP's (insulin-like growth factor binding proteins) yeah it's a mouth full jfl. These proteins bind to IGF-1 and inhibit it from attaching to the IGF-1R, basically, it renders our IGF-1 useless within the body. These proteins, unfortunately, have a high affinity to bind to IGF's, there are counter measurements to these IGFBP's though, stay tuned.

Protein intake increases IGF-1 levels in humans, independent of total calorie consumption. Factors that are known to cause variation in the levels of growth hormone (GH) and IGF-1 in the circulation include insulin levels, genetic make-up, the time of day, age, sex, exercise status, stress levels, nutrition level and body mass index, disease state, ethnicity, and estrogen status.

I'm not going to be citing studies for IGF-1, as GH and IGF-1 fall in the same category, the GH/IGF-1 axis is what influences growth.

Androgens, androgenic metabolites, and pro-hormones:
despite the common knowledge surrounding testosterone there seems to be less appreciation when it comes to other androgens. Androgens are synthesized from cholesterol and are produced primarily in the gonads (testicles and ovaries) and also in the adrenal glands to a small extent. The testicles produce a much higher quantity than the ovaries in females. Dimorphic growth is heavily dependent on androgens, specifically testosterone, dihydrotestosterone (DHT), and dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA), I'm going to be underling each androgen, and their biological mechanisms.

View attachment 258656
Testosterone:
testosterone is the primary male sex hormone that is responsible for differentiating a male fetus from a female fetus, In male humans, testosterone plays a key role in the development of reproductive tissues such as testes and prostate, as well as promoting sexual dimorphisms such as increased muscle mass, bone mass and the growth of body hair. The pituitary gland located within the brain produces a signaling chemical called luteinizing hormone (LH), LH signals the Leydig cells within the testes to synthesize testosterone from cholesterol. Production of luteinizing hormone spikes during puberty, sending multiple signals to the Leydig cells to produce more testosterone, in turn, promoting masculinization and dimorphism to occur.

the effect of low dose testosterone on the craniofacial development in children with delayed puberty.


Keep in mind, these children didn't have zero testosterone, they were just experiencing delayed puberty, low dose testosterone was enough to kickstart their craniofacial development.

View attachment 258654
Dihydrotestosterone:
DHT is biologically important for sexual differentiation of the male genitalia during embryogenesis, maturation of the penis and scrotum at puberty, growth of facial, body and pubic hair, and development and maintenance of the prostate gland and seminal vesicles. It is produced from testosterone by an enzyme called 5-alpha-reductase (5AR) in select tissues and is the primary androgen in the genitals, prostate gland, seminal vesicles, skin, and hair follicles. Dihydrotestosterone can have up to 5x the potency of testosterone when it comes to inducing androgenic dimorphism, that isn't to say that testosterone isn't important though.

View attachment 258653
Androsterone:
Androsterone is an androgenic steroid derived via the activity of the enzyme 5-AR and is a downstream metabolite of the more potent androgen DHT. Like all 5-AR derived androgens, androsterone displays anti-estrogenic and anti-glucocorticoid activity and in addition, serves as a pro-hormone for DHT and other potent androgens. In addition, androsterone is a neurosteroid with potent GABA agonist activity and is known to function as a pheromone in many animal species including humans. It has been shown to possess anti-depressant and anti-proliferative effects. Perhaps most importantly, it has been found to act like as a potent thyroid mimetic and as such to increase basal temperature, oxygen consumption and lower lipid levels in humans.

androsterone and its effect on the masculinization of male fetuses.





View attachment 258780
dehydroepiandrosterone
Dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA), also known as androstenolone, is an endogenous steroid hormone. It is one of the most abundant circulating steroids in humans, in whom it is produced in the adrenal glands, the gonads, and the brain. It functions as a metabolic intermediate in the biosynthesis of the androgen and estrogen sex steroids both in the gonads and in various other tissues. On its own, it's a very weak androgen, but it potently converts to testosterone within certain tissue, it is more abundant within females than males as it also converts to estrogen.

How to apply these hormones to your protocol:

let's begin with the growth hormone/igf1 aspect to our protocol, our main goal is to induce craniofacial growth (specifically maxillary and mandibular growth), vertical growth, and dimorphism, this can be achieved via a multitude of method, here we go.

How to increase IGF-1 levels beyond the super physiological natural range
through the usage of exogenous GH and PEPTIDES:

Method 1:
Recombinant growth hormone:
increasing our IGF-1 levels beyond the super physiological range is simple, although I disagree with some of
@Extra Chromosome's opinions on heightmaxxing, I'm going to do my best to express my opinion as I have experience and knowledge within the field of GH and Peptides.

To begin with, I personally think the usage of recombinant growth hormone (synthetic bioidentical somatropin) is the best and most practical way to increase IGF-1 and induce growth, that's not to say that peptides don't have their place, but they aren't as effective as HGH (I'll go into more detail later). Recombinant growth hormone is expensive, very expensive, but if you source it correctly you can bypass the majority of the cost issues.

I'd suggest dosing HGH at around 5IU-8IU's daily. This will skyrocket your IGF-1, even more so if you're a teenager as the conversion rate from somatropin to IGF-1 is higher, in most growing teenagers this amount of GH will put you into the 700-900ng/dl range for IGF-1 scoring, at this level cell proliferation, hyperplasia and osteoblast/osteoclast activity will increase dramatically. In other words, you'll grow, vertically and horizontally. If your soul usage of HGH is for height gains than either exemestane, letrozole or Arimidex will suffice for aromatase inhibition.

To sum method 1 up:
5-8iu's of HGH ED
(optional) Aromatase inhibitor of your choice.

Method 2:
HGH combined with IGF-1 LR3 and IGF-1 DES.
the combination of both exogenous GH and exogenous IGF-1 is amazing. As I've mentioned above alongside insulin-like growth factors comes IGFBP's (Insulin-like growth factor binding proteins) IGFPB's have a high affinity to bind onto IGF-1 and IGF-2 within the bloodstream rendering them useless and unable to attach to the IGF-1R and IGF-2R, meaning a small portion of the HGH that we inject into ourselves is going to waste as these proteins are rendering the IGF-1 unable to function, there is a way around this.

the polypeptides IGF-LR3 and IGF-DES have a low affinity to bind to the IGFBP's, meaning they are up to 3x more potent than regular endogenous IGF-1. IGF-1LR3 also happens to have a half-life of up to 30 hours. IGF-DES is even more potent than LR3, the only downside is that it has a 30-minute half-life before it is metabolized by the body, DES also happens to be more localized, so we are going to opt for LR3 in this method as it is more systemic than DES. The combination of HGH and exogenous IGF-1 will guarantee growth. (if your plates are open of course).

To sum method 2 up:
5-8iu's of HGH ED
IGF-1 LR3 100mcg ED
(optional) IGF-1 DES 50mcg ED
(optional) Aromatase inhibitor

Method 3
Peptide protocol.
peptides can be great for increasing serum levels of growth hormone and inevitably increasing IGF-1 scoring within the blood, the reason why I prefer synthetic GH is that the pituitary gland can only produce so much GH, meaning there is a limit to the number of signals it can take to produce a certain amount of somatropin. For example, you could inject more exogenous GH than you could make endogenous GH with the help of peptides, I hope that makes sense. Peptides can still boost your IGF-1 scoring beyond the natural range, some peptides even stimulate the Pi3k pathways, which is a bonus.

peptides are split up into 2 categories, GHRH's and GHRP's, our bodies make growth hormone-releasing hormone to signal the somatroph cells to produce somatropin within the pituitary gland, GHRH peptides basically tell the pituitary to release GH, growth hormone-releasing peptides basically amplify the production of growth hormone that is being secreted, stacking both a GHRH and a GHRP is necessary for increasing IGF-1 as they synergize well.

here's the peptide protocol that I recommend, whilst on this stack my IGF-1 came back at over 800ng/dl, in that time period I grew an inch and a half in height within 2 and a half months.



switching back and forth from hexarelin and GHRP-2 is necessary as desensitization will occur whilst using hexarelin at any dosage for longer than 14 days. Having 14 days off and 7 days on allows your body to sensitize to the peptide again. I do not recommend the usage of CJC DAC as it has been proven to cause damage to the pituitary gland with chronic usage.

Okay, that sums up the GH/IGF-1 section, overall I'd say if you're on a budget than peptides is the route you should take, if you have more money to spend than go for HGH if you're really fucking determined than take the HGH/IGF-1LR3 route.

The good thing about working with somatropin and peptides is that exogenous usage won't cause a negative feedback loop to occur, meaning if you discontinue the usage of growth hormone you won't feel like shit as you would with testosterone (unless you do a correct PCT). Your endogenous somatropin will begin producing normally again.

How to increase endogenous androgen activity without causing suppression
or shutdown from occurring:
working with androgens can be tricky and dangerous, you can take two routes with androgens, you can either take metabolites and non-suppressive prohormones or you can take androgens like testosterone and cause a shutdown.

the usage of androgens such as dehydroepiandrosterone and androsterone along with progesterone can be of great benefit to those who are looking
to masculinize themselves without using testosterone. dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) is one of the most abundant steroid hormones within the human body, it is produced by the adrenals and can be converted to either testosterone or estrogen. The supplementation of exogenous DHEA alone can lead to both an increase in estrogen and testosterone, combining DHEA with androsterone is a good idea as androsterone is a very powerful anti-aromatase, estrogen isn't the enemy, it's just having high estrogen is a negative, inhibiting the aromatase enzyme from converting testosterone from converting to estrogen allows for the DHEA to convert into testosterone smoothly without a spike in estrogen as your original estrogen will just be replaced.

View attachment 258661
The usage of Delta-sleep-inducing-peptide to increase natural testosterone:
my recent findings suggest that the usage of the delta-sleep inducing peptide (DSIP) can greatly benefit steroid users who are trying to regain their LH production.
DSIP increases the amount of gonadotropin that is being secreted at night time, gonadotropin signals the pituitary gland to produce LH, that LH than signals the Leydig cells to synthesize testosterone from cholesterol. More gonadotropin signaling = more luteinizing hormone signaling meaning more testosterone being made. DSIP also happens to block corticotropin from releasing cortisol, meaning cortisol cannot antagonize testosterone, leaving you with more testosterone to circulate the bloodstream. DSIP also blocks the release of somatostatin (growth hormone inhibiting hormone), somatostatins role is to lower growth hormone if it raises to high, so by blocking the release of this hormone we are preventing our blood serum level of GH dropping.

Delta-sleep inducing peptide is a must for those looking to increase testosterone without the usage of AAS or those who are using peptides and/or Recombinant GH, as it has potent somatostatin inhibiting properties.
check out my thread on DSIP

The usage of HCG
human chorionic gonadotropin is an LH mimic that can be injected subcutaneously, it acts the exact same way that LH does in that it signals the Leydig cells to produce testosterone, HCG will keep your balls from shrinking if you're running testosterone on an AAS cycle. It can increase testosterone but it has a tendency to also increase estrogen, in combination with testosterone it can induce dimorphism greatly, whilst maintaining testicular functions and fertility, it can also be implemented to make your PCT easier.

The usage of exogenous testosterone:
the usage of exogenous testosterone can greatly induce sexual dimorphism, increase bone density, anabolism, protein synthesis, and nitrogen retention. Whilst also saturated the androgen receptors. There are obvious downsides to the usage, but if done effectively there shouldn't be any issues. For teenagers willing to run testosterone, (I don't condone the usage) I'd suggest using testosterone base (no ester attached) dissolved into DMSO applied to the skin, I'd also suggest that you take the best measure to run a safe and sought out PCT.

The usage of exogenous dihydrotestosterone (androstanolone)
dihydrotestosterone can be very beneficial for those who are in the midst of puberty, at the correct dosages it isn't very suppressive and if minimal suppression occurs, then you can easily bounce back. Androstanolone is a synthetic DHT that is bioidentical to DHT. The usage of dihydrotestosterone will have an intense masculinizing effect, if you're in puberty it may affect the size of your penis and frame.

You can make a transdermal concoction with DMSO and androstanolone, with a high absorption rate. Androstanolone is an extremely androgenic steroid hormone, it has highly anti-estrogenic properties so be cautious with the dosages if you don't want to crash your E2 levels.
check out my thread on dihydrotestosterone

conclusion
a combination of both high dosages of either recombinant growth hormone or peptides alongside the optimization or exogenous usage of androgens is synergistic when it comes to craniofacial forward growth, sexual dimorphism and vertical growth.

here's my current stack for perspective.


this took like 3 days to make because I'm a lazy cunt, anyways hoped you gained something from it.

View attachment 258787

hoping that'll answer some questions for you guys.
@JustTrynaGrow @Slyfex8 @draco @Don't Forget to mew @Tom2004 @Crazzen8 @ht-normie-ascending @Dr Shekelberg @forwardgrowth @maxmendietta @PubertyMaxxer @apollothegun @KKK

​

How much this gonna cost

 

[lestoa]

How much this gonna cost

Its definitely not going to be cheap

 

[lestoa]

I made this thread. A deeply misguided 17 year old with a Wikipedia tier understanding of pharmacology & endocrinology

I did do almost everything though and whether or not I grew to 6ft2 due to gh/peptides/androgens is completely unfalsifiable.

I will say one thing though, all of this shit was insanely hard to source back in 2020. With Janoshik and QSC it's basically the golden era of generics. Growth has never been cheaper and higher quality before EVER.

Probably the most reliable way to grow for longer as a teenager would be via E2 suppression (whether that's through receptor modulation or aromatase inhibition) and keeping mTOR, Pi3k & other anabolic pathways open.

If you're going to use growth you NEED ancillaries that abate the inevitable insulin desensitization. This is something I didn't do back in 2020-2021 because I was reckless. GLP1 agonists are single-handedly the best insulin sensitizing agents, but they'll make it near impossible to get down the correct amount of calories required for growth (half-life & potency). There are short acting GLP1 agonists, but they're almost impossible to source (ideally you'd take it during sleep). Metformin is the obvious choice (inhibits gluconeogenesis, increases peripheral glucose uptake and utilization and drastically decreases glucose absorption from the intestines) and in conjunction with Growth hormone it'll actually INCREASE igf-1. Peroxisome proliferator receptor (PPARα, PPARγ, and PPARβ/δ) agonists may help too. Don't use SGLT-2 inhibitors.

If you can't afford growth then use CJC and hexarelin (you need metformin still) and also run pyridostigmine to negate somatostatin.

Don't use MK677 unless you want diabetes. IGF analogues aren't good and are honestly just pure cosmetics.

IN all seriousness though, the likelyhood of any of this working for height is very slim. Growth Hormone is fun because it'll destroy fat and you can bulk whilst simultaneously shedding bf%, it's just that strong at inducing lypolisis. GH also allows you to push the dosage on gear way higher and the nutrient partioning you get with Gear, GH & metformin is next level.

My advice would be to just accept your height and maximise your body with gear in your 20s. Also wear sunscreen and use a retinoid (tazarotene mogs)

Why did you delete ur account ?

 

[Deleted member 66574]

Its definitely not going to be cheap

I know that but hwo much

 

[Jayjay0001]

I made this thread. A deeply misguided 17 year old with a Wikipedia tier understanding of pharmacology & endocrinology

I did do almost everything though and whether or not I grew to 6ft2 due to gh/peptides/androgens is completely unfalsifiable.

I will say one thing though, all of this shit was insanely hard to source back in 2020. With Janoshik and QSC it's basically the golden era of generics. Growth has never been cheaper and higher quality before EVER.

Probably the most reliable way to grow for longer as a teenager would be via E2 suppression (whether that's through receptor modulation or aromatase inhibition) and keeping mTOR, Pi3k & other anabolic pathways open.

If you're going to use growth you NEED ancillaries that abate the inevitable insulin desensitization. This is something I didn't do back in 2020-2021 because I was reckless. GLP1 agonists are single-handedly the best insulin sensitizing agents, but they'll make it near impossible to get down the correct amount of calories required for growth (half-life & potency). There are short acting GLP1 agonists, but they're almost impossible to source (ideally you'd take it during sleep). Metformin is the obvious choice (inhibits gluconeogenesis, increases peripheral glucose uptake and utilization and drastically decreases glucose absorption from the intestines) and in conjunction with Growth hormone it'll actually INCREASE igf-1. Peroxisome proliferator receptor (PPARα, PPARγ, and PPARβ/δ) agonists may help too. Don't use SGLT-2 inhibitors.

If you can't afford growth then use CJC and hexarelin (you need metformin still) and also run pyridostigmine to negate somatostatin.

Don't use MK677 unless you want diabetes. IGF analogues aren't good and are honestly just pure cosmetics.

IN all seriousness though, the likelyhood of any of this working for height is very slim. Growth Hormone is fun because it'll destroy fat and you can bulk whilst simultaneously shedding bf%, it's just that strong at inducing lypolisis. GH also allows you to push the dosage on gear way higher and the nutrient partioning you get with Gear, GH & metformin is next level.

My advice would be to just accept your height and maximise your body with gear in your 20s. Also wear sunscreen and use a retinoid (tazarotene mogs)

So what would you „recommend“ for height maxxing? CJC and metformin(at what dose each should I start)? Should I use CJC with or without dac?

 

[Deleted member 65414]

Bump

 

[Deleted member 65414]

Bump

 

[Dyorotic]

So what would you „recommend“ for height maxxing? CJC and metformin(at what dose each should I start)? Should I use CJC with or without dac?

I recommend nothing

 

[LegitUser]

I made this thread. A deeply misguided 17 year old with a Wikipedia tier understanding of pharmacology & endocrinology

I did do almost everything though and whether or not I grew to 6ft2 due to gh/peptides/androgens is completely unfalsifiable.

I will say one thing though, all of this shit was insanely hard to source back in 2020. With Janoshik and QSC it's basically the golden era of generics. Growth has never been cheaper and higher quality before EVER.

Probably the most reliable way to grow for longer as a teenager would be via E2 suppression (whether that's through receptor modulation or aromatase inhibition) and keeping mTOR, Pi3k & other anabolic pathways open.

If you're going to use growth you NEED ancillaries that abate the inevitable insulin desensitization. This is something I didn't do back in 2020-2021 because I was reckless. GLP1 agonists are single-handedly the best insulin sensitizing agents, but they'll make it near impossible to get down the correct amount of calories required for growth (half-life & potency). There are short acting GLP1 agonists, but they're almost impossible to source (ideally you'd take it during sleep). Metformin is the obvious choice (inhibits gluconeogenesis, increases peripheral glucose uptake and utilization and drastically decreases glucose absorption from the intestines) and in conjunction with Growth hormone it'll actually INCREASE igf-1. Peroxisome proliferator receptor (PPARα, PPARγ, and PPARβ/δ) agonists may help too. Don't use SGLT-2 inhibitors.

If you can't afford growth then use CJC and hexarelin (you need metformin still) and also run pyridostigmine to negate somatostatin.

Don't use MK677 unless you want diabetes. IGF analogues aren't good and are honestly just pure cosmetics.

IN all seriousness though, the likelyhood of any of this working for height is very slim. Growth Hormone is fun because it'll destroy fat and you can bulk whilst simultaneously shedding bf%, it's just that strong at inducing lypolisis. GH also allows you to push the dosage on gear way higher and the nutrient partioning you get with Gear, GH & metformin is next level.

My advice would be to just accept your height and maximise your body with gear in your 20s. Also wear sunscreen and use a retinoid (tazarotene mogs)

High IQ, I was just gonna reply to this thread asking if the OP died.

I will be doing a cycle similar to yours soon

 

[Jayjay0001]

I recommend nothing

I know, but what would you say would be the most (relatively) safe and not too expensive thing I could do?..

 

[Jayjay0001]

I recommend nothing

I know, but what would you say would be the most (relatively) safe and not too expensive thing I could do?..

 

[MA_ascender]

I know, but what would you say would be the most (relatively) safe and not too expensive thing I could do?..

suicide

 

[Geneticsislife]

I need help, how can i get my hands on these HGH, androstanolone, androsterone and HCG???

 

[ImaMaxAll]

I made this thread. A deeply misguided 17 year old with a Wikipedia tier understanding of pharmacology & endocrinology

I did do almost everything though and whether or not I grew to 6ft2 due to gh/peptides/androgens is completely unfalsifiable.

I will say one thing though, all of this shit was insanely hard to source back in 2020. With Janoshik and QSC it's basically the golden era of generics. Growth has never been cheaper and higher quality before EVER.

Probably the most reliable way to grow for longer as a teenager would be via E2 suppression (whether that's through receptor modulation or aromatase inhibition) and keeping mTOR, Pi3k & other anabolic pathways open.

If you're going to use growth you NEED ancillaries that abate the inevitable insulin desensitization. This is something I didn't do back in 2020-2021 because I was reckless. GLP1 agonists are single-handedly the best insulin sensitizing agents, but they'll make it near impossible to get down the correct amount of calories required for growth (half-life & potency). There are short acting GLP1 agonists, but they're almost impossible to source (ideally you'd take it during sleep). Metformin is the obvious choice (inhibits gluconeogenesis, increases peripheral glucose uptake and utilization and drastically decreases glucose absorption from the intestines) and in conjunction with Growth hormone it'll actually INCREASE igf-1. Peroxisome proliferator receptor (PPARα, PPARγ, and PPARβ/δ) agonists may help too. Don't use SGLT-2 inhibitors.

If you can't afford growth then use CJC and hexarelin (you need metformin still) and also run pyridostigmine to negate somatostatin.

Don't use MK677 unless you want diabetes. IGF analogues aren't good and are honestly just pure cosmetics.

IN all seriousness though, the likelyhood of any of this working for height is very slim. Growth Hormone is fun because it'll destroy fat and you can bulk whilst simultaneously shedding bf%, it's just that strong at inducing lypolisis. GH also allows you to push the dosage on gear way higher and the nutrient partioning you get with Gear, GH & metformin is next level.

My advice would be to just accept your height and maximise your body with gear in your 20s. Also wear sunscreen and use a retinoid (tazarotene mogs)

Why do you say not to use SGLT-2 inhibitors? They seem to be one of the best things for people using hgh, preventing insulin resistance and water retention.

 

[disaster]

u can acromegalymaxx ur body if unlucky. tho all u have to do is being lucky so go for it seriously

 

[IblameBatMan]

Preface:
I've had a lot of questions in my pm's recently regarding growth hormone, IGF-1, and androgens.
specifically, people asking me for sources and stacks, how they work, etc, I'm hoping this guide will be able to answer as many of your questions as possible.

Disclaimer:
this thread is going to be very long, I'm going, to begin with explaining each of these chemicals, their mechanisms, and functions whilst also citing studies,
if you're wanting to learn how to apply these chemicals to your protocol than skip down to where I begin talking about methods.

Introduction:
Okay, so this in this thread I'm going to do my best at explaining how growth factors and androgens
affect facial development, induce sexual dimorphism and vertical growth, I'm going to begin
explaining the biological mechanisms of these hormones and then how you can apply them
cost-effectively.

HGH:
Somatropin, commonly referred to as HGH or GH is a 191 amino acid chain that is produced by the pituitary gland,
this peptide stimulates growth, cell reproduction, and cell regeneration in humans and other animals. It is thus important in human development.
GH also stimulates the production of IGF-1 and increases the concentration of glucose and free fatty acids. It belongs to a family of hormones known as the growth hormone family. This also includes prolactin (PRL) and placental lactogen. Despite the obvious differences in function, these hormones share a very similar structure. Likewise, GH and PRL are the only two non-tropic hormones synthesized and released from the anterior pituitary gland. (So yes if you're taking cabergoline you will inhibit growth hormone as they are from the same family).

Growth hormone itself isn't actually what induces growth, it's the metabolites of somatropin that induce cell proliferation, hyperplasia, and hypertrophy.
this class of growth factors is called insulin-like growth factors, they are molecularly structured similar to that of insulin, somatropin is needed for the creation of IGF's within the liver. IGF-2 is the primary growth factor responsible for fetal development, whereas IGF-1 is the primary growth factor responsible for inducing growth within adolescent children. (more on insulin-like growth factors later).

somatropin is needed for the development of our bodies, the reason us looksmaxxers are obsessed with it is because of dimorphic growth-related effects
that are induced by the insulin-like growth factor family of hormones.

somatropin's effect on craniofacial development within children.




Yes, these children did have GHDD (growth hormone deficiency disorder), but this doesn't disprove that the usage of exogenous somatropin
can induce craniofacial growth. These children would have been administrated growth hormone dosages that would have aligned with normal children's endogenous production. Our goal with growth hormone is to increase the endogenous production of IGF-1 way above super physiological levels in order to affect our craniofacial growth. Keep in mind, in this study the children were dosed 0.5IU daily, that's around 15-fold less than what I suggest you should dose daily, and these children still reap the positive craniofacial benefits.

The abstract of a study based on how the GH/IGF-1 axis influences bone formation, growth, and remodeling.


somatropin's effect on hard tissue, bone formation, and osteoclasts.


somatropin effects on bone formation through osteoblasts.


The GH/IGF-1 axis and it's interaction with androgens when it comes to bone formation.



Insulin-like growth factors, specifically somatomedin-C (IGF-1):
IGF-1 is produced all the way throughout life. The highest rates of IGF-1 production occur during the pubertal growth spurt. The lowest levels occur in infancy and old age. This is why children grow rapidly during puberty, somatropin is at an all-time high, meaning more conversion to IGF-1, typically in healthy children, the baseline IGF-1 scoring is between 250-500ng/dl, although higher IGF-1 scoring is possible with exogenous intervention.

IGF-1 is a primary mediator of the effects of somatropin (GH), growth hormone is released into the bloodstream, and then stimulates the liver to produce insulin-like growth factors, we are specifically focusing on IGF-1. These IGF's then stimulate systemic body growth and has growth-promoting effects on almost every cell in the body, especially skeletal muscle, cartilage, bone, liver, etc... In addition to the insulin-like effects, IGF-1 can also regulate cellular DNA synthesis. IGF-1 is our friend, we want our levels to be sky-high during puberty to reap all of the dimorphic growth and surpass our genetic potential, there are some road blockages though, along with the insulin-like growth factor family comes the IGFBP's (insulin-like growth factor binding proteins) yeah it's a mouth full jfl. These proteins bind to IGF-1 and inhibit it from attaching to the IGF-1R, basically, it renders our IGF-1 useless within the body. These proteins, unfortunately, have a high affinity to bind to IGF's, there are counter measurements to these IGFBP's though, stay tuned.

Protein intake increases IGF-1 levels in humans, independent of total calorie consumption. Factors that are known to cause variation in the levels of growth hormone (GH) and IGF-1 in the circulation include insulin levels, genetic make-up, the time of day, age, sex, exercise status, stress levels, nutrition level and body mass index, disease state, ethnicity, and estrogen status.

I'm not going to be citing studies for IGF-1, as GH and IGF-1 fall in the same category, the GH/IGF-1 axis is what influences growth.

Androgens, androgenic metabolites, and pro-hormones:
despite the common knowledge surrounding testosterone there seems to be less appreciation when it comes to other androgens. Androgens are synthesized from cholesterol and are produced primarily in the gonads (testicles and ovaries) and also in the adrenal glands to a small extent. The testicles produce a much higher quantity than the ovaries in females. Dimorphic growth is heavily dependent on androgens, specifically testosterone, dihydrotestosterone (DHT), and dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA), I'm going to be underling each androgen, and their biological mechanisms.

View attachment 258656
Testosterone:
testosterone is the primary male sex hormone that is responsible for differentiating a male fetus from a female fetus, In male humans, testosterone plays a key role in the development of reproductive tissues such as testes and prostate, as well as promoting sexual dimorphisms such as increased muscle mass, bone mass and the growth of body hair. The pituitary gland located within the brain produces a signaling chemical called luteinizing hormone (LH), LH signals the Leydig cells within the testes to synthesize testosterone from cholesterol. Production of luteinizing hormone spikes during puberty, sending multiple signals to the Leydig cells to produce more testosterone, in turn, promoting masculinization and dimorphism to occur.

the effect of low dose testosterone on the craniofacial development in children with delayed puberty.


Keep in mind, these children didn't have zero testosterone, they were just experiencing delayed puberty, low dose testosterone was enough to kickstart their craniofacial development.

View attachment 258654
Dihydrotestosterone:
DHT is biologically important for sexual differentiation of the male genitalia during embryogenesis, maturation of the penis and scrotum at puberty, growth of facial, body and pubic hair, and development and maintenance of the prostate gland and seminal vesicles. It is produced from testosterone by an enzyme called 5-alpha-reductase (5AR) in select tissues and is the primary androgen in the genitals, prostate gland, seminal vesicles, skin, and hair follicles. Dihydrotestosterone can have up to 5x the potency of testosterone when it comes to inducing androgenic dimorphism, that isn't to say that testosterone isn't important though.

View attachment 258653
Androsterone:
Androsterone is an androgenic steroid derived via the activity of the enzyme 5-AR and is a downstream metabolite of the more potent androgen DHT. Like all 5-AR derived androgens, androsterone displays anti-estrogenic and anti-glucocorticoid activity and in addition, serves as a pro-hormone for DHT and other potent androgens. In addition, androsterone is a neurosteroid with potent GABA agonist activity and is known to function as a pheromone in many animal species including humans. It has been shown to possess anti-depressant and anti-proliferative effects. Perhaps most importantly, it has been found to act like as a potent thyroid mimetic and as such to increase basal temperature, oxygen consumption and lower lipid levels in humans.

androsterone and its effect on the masculinization of male fetuses.





View attachment 258780
dehydroepiandrosterone
Dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA), also known as androstenolone, is an endogenous steroid hormone. It is one of the most abundant circulating steroids in humans, in whom it is produced in the adrenal glands, the gonads, and the brain. It functions as a metabolic intermediate in the biosynthesis of the androgen and estrogen sex steroids both in the gonads and in various other tissues. On its own, it's a very weak androgen, but it potently converts to testosterone within certain tissue, it is more abundant within females than males as it also converts to estrogen.

How to apply these hormones to your protocol:

let's begin with the growth hormone/igf1 aspect to our protocol, our main goal is to induce craniofacial growth (specifically maxillary and mandibular growth), vertical growth, and dimorphism, this can be achieved via a multitude of method, here we go.

How to increase IGF-1 levels beyond the super physiological natural range
through the usage of exogenous GH and PEPTIDES:

Method 1:
Recombinant growth hormone:
increasing our IGF-1 levels beyond the super physiological range is simple, although I disagree with some of
@Extra Chromosome's opinions on heightmaxxing, I'm going to do my best to express my opinion as I have experience and knowledge within the field of GH and Peptides.

To begin with, I personally think the usage of recombinant growth hormone (synthetic bioidentical somatropin) is the best and most practical way to increase IGF-1 and induce growth, that's not to say that peptides don't have their place, but they aren't as effective as HGH (I'll go into more detail later). Recombinant growth hormone is expensive, very expensive, but if you source it correctly you can bypass the majority of the cost issues.

I'd suggest dosing HGH at around 5IU-8IU's daily. This will skyrocket your IGF-1, even more so if you're a teenager as the conversion rate from somatropin to IGF-1 is higher, in most growing teenagers this amount of GH will put you into the 700-900ng/dl range for IGF-1 scoring, at this level cell proliferation, hyperplasia and osteoblast/osteoclast activity will increase dramatically. In other words, you'll grow, vertically and horizontally. If your soul usage of HGH is for height gains than either exemestane, letrozole or Arimidex will suffice for aromatase inhibition.

To sum method 1 up:
5-8iu's of HGH ED
(optional) Aromatase inhibitor of your choice.

Method 2:
HGH combined with IGF-1 LR3 and IGF-1 DES.
the combination of both exogenous GH and exogenous IGF-1 is amazing. As I've mentioned above alongside insulin-like growth factors comes IGFBP's (Insulin-like growth factor binding proteins) IGFPB's have a high affinity to bind onto IGF-1 and IGF-2 within the bloodstream rendering them useless and unable to attach to the IGF-1R and IGF-2R, meaning a small portion of the HGH that we inject into ourselves is going to waste as these proteins are rendering the IGF-1 unable to function, there is a way around this.

the polypeptides IGF-LR3 and IGF-DES have a low affinity to bind to the IGFBP's, meaning they are up to 3x more potent than regular endogenous IGF-1. IGF-1LR3 also happens to have a half-life of up to 30 hours. IGF-DES is even more potent than LR3, the only downside is that it has a 30-minute half-life before it is metabolized by the body, DES also happens to be more localized, so we are going to opt for LR3 in this method as it is more systemic than DES. The combination of HGH and exogenous IGF-1 will guarantee growth. (if your plates are open of course).

To sum method 2 up:
5-8iu's of HGH ED
IGF-1 LR3 100mcg ED
(optional) IGF-1 DES 50mcg ED
(optional) Aromatase inhibitor

Method 3
Peptide protocol.
peptides can be great for increasing serum levels of growth hormone and inevitably increasing IGF-1 scoring within the blood, the reason why I prefer synthetic GH is that the pituitary gland can only produce so much GH, meaning there is a limit to the number of signals it can take to produce a certain amount of somatropin. For example, you could inject more exogenous GH than you could make endogenous GH with the help of peptides, I hope that makes sense. Peptides can still boost your IGF-1 scoring beyond the natural range, some peptides even stimulate the Pi3k pathways, which is a bonus.

peptides are split up into 2 categories, GHRH's and GHRP's, our bodies make growth hormone-releasing hormone to signal the somatroph cells to produce somatropin within the pituitary gland, GHRH peptides basically tell the pituitary to release GH, growth hormone-releasing peptides basically amplify the production of growth hormone that is being secreted, stacking both a GHRH and a GHRP is necessary for increasing IGF-1 as they synergize well.

here's the peptide protocol that I recommend, whilst on this stack my IGF-1 came back at over 800ng/dl, in that time period I grew an inch and a half in height within 2 and a half months.



switching back and forth from hexarelin and GHRP-2 is necessary as desensitization will occur whilst using hexarelin at any dosage for longer than 14 days. Having 14 days off and 7 days on allows your body to sensitize to the peptide again. I do not recommend the usage of CJC DAC as it has been proven to cause damage to the pituitary gland with chronic usage.

Okay, that sums up the GH/IGF-1 section, overall I'd say if you're on a budget than peptides is the route you should take, if you have more money to spend than go for HGH if you're really fucking determined than take the HGH/IGF-1LR3 route.

The good thing about working with somatropin and peptides is that exogenous usage won't cause a negative feedback loop to occur, meaning if you discontinue the usage of growth hormone you won't feel like shit as you would with testosterone (unless you do a correct PCT). Your endogenous somatropin will begin producing normally again.

How to increase endogenous androgen activity without causing suppression
or shutdown from occurring:
working with androgens can be tricky and dangerous, you can take two routes with androgens, you can either take metabolites and non-suppressive prohormones or you can take androgens like testosterone and cause a shutdown.

the usage of androgens such as dehydroepiandrosterone and androsterone along with progesterone can be of great benefit to those who are looking
to masculinize themselves without using testosterone. dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) is one of the most abundant steroid hormones within the human body, it is produced by the adrenals and can be converted to either testosterone or estrogen. The supplementation of exogenous DHEA alone can lead to both an increase in estrogen and testosterone, combining DHEA with androsterone is a good idea as androsterone is a very powerful anti-aromatase, estrogen isn't the enemy, it's just having high estrogen is a negative, inhibiting the aromatase enzyme from converting testosterone from converting to estrogen allows for the DHEA to convert into testosterone smoothly without a spike in estrogen as your original estrogen will just be replaced.

View attachment 258661
The usage of Delta-sleep-inducing-peptide to increase natural testosterone:
my recent findings suggest that the usage of the delta-sleep inducing peptide (DSIP) can greatly benefit steroid users who are trying to regain their LH production.
DSIP increases the amount of gonadotropin that is being secreted at night time, gonadotropin signals the pituitary gland to produce LH, that LH than signals the Leydig cells to synthesize testosterone from cholesterol. More gonadotropin signaling = more luteinizing hormone signaling meaning more testosterone being made. DSIP also happens to block corticotropin from releasing cortisol, meaning cortisol cannot antagonize testosterone, leaving you with more testosterone to circulate the bloodstream. DSIP also blocks the release of somatostatin (growth hormone inhibiting hormone), somatostatins role is to lower growth hormone if it raises to high, so by blocking the release of this hormone we are preventing our blood serum level of GH dropping.

Delta-sleep inducing peptide is a must for those looking to increase testosterone without the usage of AAS or those who are using peptides and/or Recombinant GH, as it has potent somatostatin inhibiting properties.
check out my thread on DSIP

The usage of HCG
human chorionic gonadotropin is an LH mimic that can be injected subcutaneously, it acts the exact same way that LH does in that it signals the Leydig cells to produce testosterone, HCG will keep your balls from shrinking if you're running testosterone on an AAS cycle. It can increase testosterone but it has a tendency to also increase estrogen, in combination with testosterone it can induce dimorphism greatly, whilst maintaining testicular functions and fertility, it can also be implemented to make your PCT easier.

The usage of exogenous testosterone:
the usage of exogenous testosterone can greatly induce sexual dimorphism, increase bone density, anabolism, protein synthesis, and nitrogen retention. Whilst also saturated the androgen receptors. There are obvious downsides to the usage, but if done effectively there shouldn't be any issues. For teenagers willing to run testosterone, (I don't condone the usage) I'd suggest using testosterone base (no ester attached) dissolved into DMSO applied to the skin, I'd also suggest that you take the best measure to run a safe and sought out PCT.

The usage of exogenous dihydrotestosterone (androstanolone)
dihydrotestosterone can be very beneficial for those who are in the midst of puberty, at the correct dosages it isn't very suppressive and if minimal suppression occurs, then you can easily bounce back. Androstanolone is a synthetic DHT that is bioidentical to DHT. The usage of dihydrotestosterone will have an intense masculinizing effect, if you're in puberty it may affect the size of your penis and frame.

You can make a transdermal concoction with DMSO and androstanolone, with a high absorption rate. Androstanolone is an extremely androgenic steroid hormone, it has highly anti-estrogenic properties so be cautious with the dosages if you don't want to crash your E2 levels.
check out my thread on dihydrotestosterone

conclusion
a combination of both high dosages of either recombinant growth hormone or peptides alongside the optimization or exogenous usage of androgens is synergistic when it comes to craniofacial forward growth, sexual dimorphism and vertical growth.

here's my current stack for perspective.


this took like 3 days to make because I'm a lazy cunt, anyways hoped you gained something from it.

View attachment 258787

hoping that'll answer some questions for you guys.
@JustTrynaGrow @Slyfex8 @draco @Don't Forget to mew @Tom2004 @Crazzen8 [US

​

where can you find these suplements man

 

[lestoa]

where can you find these suplements man

these arent normal supplements, this is the most insane androgenic cocktail ever

 

[Deleted member 87737]

where can you find these suplements man

Owner of the this post said its unnecessary

 

[typeshitboutme]

Preface:
I've had a lot of questions in my pm's recently regarding growth hormone, IGF-1, and androgens.
specifically, people asking me for sources and stacks, how they work, etc, I'm hoping this guide will be able to answer as many of your questions as possible.

Disclaimer:
this thread is going to be very long, I'm going, to begin with explaining each of these chemicals, their mechanisms, and functions whilst also citing studies,
if you're wanting to learn how to apply these chemicals to your protocol than skip down to where I begin talking about methods.

Introduction:
Okay, so this in this thread I'm going to do my best at explaining how growth factors and androgens
affect facial development, induce sexual dimorphism and vertical growth, I'm going to begin
explaining the biological mechanisms of these hormones and then how you can apply them
cost-effectively.

HGH:
Somatropin, commonly referred to as HGH or GH is a 191 amino acid chain that is produced by the pituitary gland,
this peptide stimulates growth, cell reproduction, and cell regeneration in humans and other animals. It is thus important in human development.
GH also stimulates the production of IGF-1 and increases the concentration of glucose and free fatty acids. It belongs to a family of hormones known as the growth hormone family. This also includes prolactin (PRL) and placental lactogen. Despite the obvious differences in function, these hormones share a very similar structure. Likewise, GH and PRL are the only two non-tropic hormones synthesized and released from the anterior pituitary gland. (So yes if you're taking cabergoline you will inhibit growth hormone as they are from the same family).

Growth hormone itself isn't actually what induces growth, it's the metabolites of somatropin that induce cell proliferation, hyperplasia, and hypertrophy.
this class of growth factors is called insulin-like growth factors, they are molecularly structured similar to that of insulin, somatropin is needed for the creation of IGF's within the liver. IGF-2 is the primary growth factor responsible for fetal development, whereas IGF-1 is the primary growth factor responsible for inducing growth within adolescent children. (more on insulin-like growth factors later).

somatropin is needed for the development of our bodies, the reason us looksmaxxers are obsessed with it is because of dimorphic growth-related effects
that are induced by the insulin-like growth factor family of hormones.

somatropin's effect on craniofacial development within children.




Yes, these children did have GHDD (growth hormone deficiency disorder), but this doesn't disprove that the usage of exogenous somatropin
can induce craniofacial growth. These children would have been administrated growth hormone dosages that would have aligned with normal children's endogenous production. Our goal with growth hormone is to increase the endogenous production of IGF-1 way above super physiological levels in order to affect our craniofacial growth. Keep in mind, in this study the children were dosed 0.5IU daily, that's around 15-fold less than what I suggest you should dose daily, and these children still reap the positive craniofacial benefits.

The abstract of a study based on how the GH/IGF-1 axis influences bone formation, growth, and remodeling.


somatropin's effect on hard tissue, bone formation, and osteoclasts.


somatropin effects on bone formation through osteoblasts.


The GH/IGF-1 axis and it's interaction with androgens when it comes to bone formation.



Insulin-like growth factors, specifically somatomedin-C (IGF-1):
IGF-1 is produced all the way throughout life. The highest rates of IGF-1 production occur during the pubertal growth spurt. The lowest levels occur in infancy and old age. This is why children grow rapidly during puberty, somatropin is at an all-time high, meaning more conversion to IGF-1, typically in healthy children, the baseline IGF-1 scoring is between 250-500ng/dl, although higher IGF-1 scoring is possible with exogenous intervention.

IGF-1 is a primary mediator of the effects of somatropin (GH), growth hormone is released into the bloodstream, and then stimulates the liver to produce insulin-like growth factors, we are specifically focusing on IGF-1. These IGF's then stimulate systemic body growth and has growth-promoting effects on almost every cell in the body, especially skeletal muscle, cartilage, bone, liver, etc... In addition to the insulin-like effects, IGF-1 can also regulate cellular DNA synthesis. IGF-1 is our friend, we want our levels to be sky-high during puberty to reap all of the dimorphic growth and surpass our genetic potential, there are some road blockages though, along with the insulin-like growth factor family comes the IGFBP's (insulin-like growth factor binding proteins) yeah it's a mouth full jfl. These proteins bind to IGF-1 and inhibit it from attaching to the IGF-1R, basically, it renders our IGF-1 useless within the body. These proteins, unfortunately, have a high affinity to bind to IGF's, there are counter measurements to these IGFBP's though, stay tuned.

Protein intake increases IGF-1 levels in humans, independent of total calorie consumption. Factors that are known to cause variation in the levels of growth hormone (GH) and IGF-1 in the circulation include insulin levels, genetic make-up, the time of day, age, sex, exercise status, stress levels, nutrition level and body mass index, disease state, ethnicity, and estrogen status.

I'm not going to be citing studies for IGF-1, as GH and IGF-1 fall in the same category, the GH/IGF-1 axis is what influences growth.

Androgens, androgenic metabolites, and pro-hormones:
despite the common knowledge surrounding testosterone there seems to be less appreciation when it comes to other androgens. Androgens are synthesized from cholesterol and are produced primarily in the gonads (testicles and ovaries) and also in the adrenal glands to a small extent. The testicles produce a much higher quantity than the ovaries in females. Dimorphic growth is heavily dependent on androgens, specifically testosterone, dihydrotestosterone (DHT), and dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA), I'm going to be underling each androgen, and their biological mechanisms.

View attachment 258656
Testosterone:
testosterone is the primary male sex hormone that is responsible for differentiating a male fetus from a female fetus, In male humans, testosterone plays a key role in the development of reproductive tissues such as testes and prostate, as well as promoting sexual dimorphisms such as increased muscle mass, bone mass and the growth of body hair. The pituitary gland located within the brain produces a signaling chemical called luteinizing hormone (LH), LH signals the Leydig cells within the testes to synthesize testosterone from cholesterol. Production of luteinizing hormone spikes during puberty, sending multiple signals to the Leydig cells to produce more testosterone, in turn, promoting masculinization and dimorphism to occur.

the effect of low dose testosterone on the craniofacial development in children with delayed puberty.


Keep in mind, these children didn't have zero testosterone, they were just experiencing delayed puberty, low dose testosterone was enough to kickstart their craniofacial development.

View attachment 258654
Dihydrotestosterone:
DHT is biologically important for sexual differentiation of the male genitalia during embryogenesis, maturation of the penis and scrotum at puberty, growth of facial, body and pubic hair, and development and maintenance of the prostate gland and seminal vesicles. It is produced from testosterone by an enzyme called 5-alpha-reductase (5AR) in select tissues and is the primary androgen in the genitals, prostate gland, seminal vesicles, skin, and hair follicles. Dihydrotestosterone can have up to 5x the potency of testosterone when it comes to inducing androgenic dimorphism, that isn't to say that testosterone isn't important though.

View attachment 258653
Androsterone:
Androsterone is an androgenic steroid derived via the activity of the enzyme 5-AR and is a downstream metabolite of the more potent androgen DHT. Like all 5-AR derived androgens, androsterone displays anti-estrogenic and anti-glucocorticoid activity and in addition, serves as a pro-hormone for DHT and other potent androgens. In addition, androsterone is a neurosteroid with potent GABA agonist activity and is known to function as a pheromone in many animal species including humans. It has been shown to possess anti-depressant and anti-proliferative effects. Perhaps most importantly, it has been found to act like as a potent thyroid mimetic and as such to increase basal temperature, oxygen consumption and lower lipid levels in humans.

androsterone and its effect on the masculinization of male fetuses.





View attachment 258780
dehydroepiandrosterone
Dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA), also known as androstenolone, is an endogenous steroid hormone. It is one of the most abundant circulating steroids in humans, in whom it is produced in the adrenal glands, the gonads, and the brain. It functions as a metabolic intermediate in the biosynthesis of the androgen and estrogen sex steroids both in the gonads and in various other tissues. On its own, it's a very weak androgen, but it potently converts to testosterone within certain tissue, it is more abundant within females than males as it also converts to estrogen.

How to apply these hormones to your protocol:

let's begin with the growth hormone/igf1 aspect to our protocol, our main goal is to induce craniofacial growth (specifically maxillary and mandibular growth), vertical growth, and dimorphism, this can be achieved via a multitude of method, here we go.

How to increase IGF-1 levels beyond the super physiological natural range
through the usage of exogenous GH and PEPTIDES:

Method 1:
Recombinant growth hormone:
increasing our IGF-1 levels beyond the super physiological range is simple, although I disagree with some of
@Extra Chromosome's opinions on heightmaxxing, I'm going to do my best to express my opinion as I have experience and knowledge within the field of GH and Peptides.

To begin with, I personally think the usage of recombinant growth hormone (synthetic bioidentical somatropin) is the best and most practical way to increase IGF-1 and induce growth, that's not to say that peptides don't have their place, but they aren't as effective as HGH (I'll go into more detail later). Recombinant growth hormone is expensive, very expensive, but if you source it correctly you can bypass the majority of the cost issues.

I'd suggest dosing HGH at around 5IU-8IU's daily. This will skyrocket your IGF-1, even more so if you're a teenager as the conversion rate from somatropin to IGF-1 is higher, in most growing teenagers this amount of GH will put you into the 700-900ng/dl range for IGF-1 scoring, at this level cell proliferation, hyperplasia and osteoblast/osteoclast activity will increase dramatically. In other words, you'll grow, vertically and horizontally. If your soul usage of HGH is for height gains than either exemestane, letrozole or Arimidex will suffice for aromatase inhibition.

To sum method 1 up:
5-8iu's of HGH ED
(optional) Aromatase inhibitor of your choice.

Method 2:
HGH combined with IGF-1 LR3 and IGF-1 DES.
the combination of both exogenous GH and exogenous IGF-1 is amazing. As I've mentioned above alongside insulin-like growth factors comes IGFBP's (Insulin-like growth factor binding proteins) IGFPB's have a high affinity to bind onto IGF-1 and IGF-2 within the bloodstream rendering them useless and unable to attach to the IGF-1R and IGF-2R, meaning a small portion of the HGH that we inject into ourselves is going to waste as these proteins are rendering the IGF-1 unable to function, there is a way around this.

the polypeptides IGF-LR3 and IGF-DES have a low affinity to bind to the IGFBP's, meaning they are up to 3x more potent than regular endogenous IGF-1. IGF-1LR3 also happens to have a half-life of up to 30 hours. IGF-DES is even more potent than LR3, the only downside is that it has a 30-minute half-life before it is metabolized by the body, DES also happens to be more localized, so we are going to opt for LR3 in this method as it is more systemic than DES. The combination of HGH and exogenous IGF-1 will guarantee growth. (if your plates are open of course).

To sum method 2 up:
5-8iu's of HGH ED
IGF-1 LR3 100mcg ED
(optional) IGF-1 DES 50mcg ED
(optional) Aromatase inhibitor

Method 3
Peptide protocol.
peptides can be great for increasing serum levels of growth hormone and inevitably increasing IGF-1 scoring within the blood, the reason why I prefer synthetic GH is that the pituitary gland can only produce so much GH, meaning there is a limit to the number of signals it can take to produce a certain amount of somatropin. For example, you could inject more exogenous GH than you could make endogenous GH with the help of peptides, I hope that makes sense. Peptides can still boost your IGF-1 scoring beyond the natural range, some peptides even stimulate the Pi3k pathways, which is a bonus.

peptides are split up into 2 categories, GHRH's and GHRP's, our bodies make growth hormone-releasing hormone to signal the somatroph cells to produce somatropin within the pituitary gland, GHRH peptides basically tell the pituitary to release GH, growth hormone-releasing peptides basically amplify the production of growth hormone that is being secreted, stacking both a GHRH and a GHRP is necessary for increasing IGF-1 as they synergize well.

here's the peptide protocol that I recommend, whilst on this stack my IGF-1 came back at over 800ng/dl, in that time period I grew an inch and a half in height within 2 and a half months.



switching back and forth from hexarelin and GHRP-2 is necessary as desensitization will occur whilst using hexarelin at any dosage for longer than 14 days. Having 14 days off and 7 days on allows your body to sensitize to the peptide again. I do not recommend the usage of CJC DAC as it has been proven to cause damage to the pituitary gland with chronic usage.

Okay, that sums up the GH/IGF-1 section, overall I'd say if you're on a budget than peptides is the route you should take, if you have more money to spend than go for HGH if you're really fucking determined than take the HGH/IGF-1LR3 route.

The good thing about working with somatropin and peptides is that exogenous usage won't cause a negative feedback loop to occur, meaning if you discontinue the usage of growth hormone you won't feel like shit as you would with testosterone (unless you do a correct PCT). Your endogenous somatropin will begin producing normally again.

How to increase endogenous androgen activity without causing suppression
or shutdown from occurring:
working with androgens can be tricky and dangerous, you can take two routes with androgens, you can either take metabolites and non-suppressive prohormones or you can take androgens like testosterone and cause a shutdown.

the usage of androgens such as dehydroepiandrosterone and androsterone along with progesterone can be of great benefit to those who are looking
to masculinize themselves without using testosterone. dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) is one of the most abundant steroid hormones within the human body, it is produced by the adrenals and can be converted to either testosterone or estrogen. The supplementation of exogenous DHEA alone can lead to both an increase in estrogen and testosterone, combining DHEA with androsterone is a good idea as androsterone is a very powerful anti-aromatase, estrogen isn't the enemy, it's just having high estrogen is a negative, inhibiting the aromatase enzyme from converting testosterone from converting to estrogen allows for the DHEA to convert into testosterone smoothly without a spike in estrogen as your original estrogen will just be replaced.

View attachment 258661
The usage of Delta-sleep-inducing-peptide to increase natural testosterone:
my recent findings suggest that the usage of the delta-sleep inducing peptide (DSIP) can greatly benefit steroid users who are trying to regain their LH production.
DSIP increases the amount of gonadotropin that is being secreted at night time, gonadotropin signals the pituitary gland to produce LH, that LH than signals the Leydig cells to synthesize testosterone from cholesterol. More gonadotropin signaling = more luteinizing hormone signaling meaning more testosterone being made. DSIP also happens to block corticotropin from releasing cortisol, meaning cortisol cannot antagonize testosterone, leaving you with more testosterone to circulate the bloodstream. DSIP also blocks the release of somatostatin (growth hormone inhibiting hormone), somatostatins role is to lower growth hormone if it raises to high, so by blocking the release of this hormone we are preventing our blood serum level of GH dropping.

Delta-sleep inducing peptide is a must for those looking to increase testosterone without the usage of AAS or those who are using peptides and/or Recombinant GH, as it has potent somatostatin inhibiting properties.
check out my thread on DSIP

The usage of HCG
human chorionic gonadotropin is an LH mimic that can be injected subcutaneously, it acts the exact same way that LH does in that it signals the Leydig cells to produce testosterone, HCG will keep your balls from shrinking if you're running testosterone on an AAS cycle. It can increase testosterone but it has a tendency to also increase estrogen, in combination with testosterone it can induce dimorphism greatly, whilst maintaining testicular functions and fertility, it can also be implemented to make your PCT easier.

The usage of exogenous testosterone:
the usage of exogenous testosterone can greatly induce sexual dimorphism, increase bone density, anabolism, protein synthesis, and nitrogen retention. Whilst also saturated the androgen receptors. There are obvious downsides to the usage, but if done effectively there shouldn't be any issues. For teenagers willing to run testosterone, (I don't condone the usage) I'd suggest using testosterone base (no ester attached) dissolved into DMSO applied to the skin, I'd also suggest that you take the best measure to run a safe and sought out PCT.

The usage of exogenous dihydrotestosterone (androstanolone)
dihydrotestosterone can be very beneficial for those who are in the midst of puberty, at the correct dosages it isn't very suppressive and if minimal suppression occurs, then you can easily bounce back. Androstanolone is a synthetic DHT that is bioidentical to DHT. The usage of dihydrotestosterone will have an intense masculinizing effect, if you're in puberty it may affect the size of your penis and frame.

You can make a transdermal concoction with DMSO and androstanolone, with a high absorption rate. Androstanolone is an extremely androgenic steroid hormone, it has highly anti-estrogenic properties so be cautious with the dosages if you don't want to crash your E2 levels.
check out my thread on dihydrotestosterone

conclusion
a combination of both high dosages of either recombinant growth hormone or peptides alongside the optimization or exogenous usage of androgens is synergistic when it comes to craniofacial forward growth, sexual dimorphism and vertical growth.

here's my current stack for perspective.


this took like 3 days to make because I'm a lazy cunt, anyways hoped you gained something from it.

View attachment 258787

hoping that'll answer some questions for you guys.
@JustTrynaGrow @Slyfex8 @draco @Don't Forget to mew @Tom2004 @Crazzen8 @ht-normie-ascending @Dr Shekelberg @forwardgrowth @maxmendietta @PubertyMaxxer @apollothegun @KKK

​

Probably the best puberty maxxing guide

 

[Looksmaxxer_based]

is 18-17 pedo?

 

[Cristiano RonaIdo]

is 18-17 pedo?

why do u have a naked man in ur avi

 

[Doragon]

Preface:
I've had a lot of questions in my pm's recently regarding growth hormone, IGF-1, and androgens.
specifically, people asking me for sources and stacks, how they work, etc, I'm hoping this guide will be able to answer as many of your questions as possible.

Disclaimer:
this thread is going to be very long, I'm going, to begin with explaining each of these chemicals, their mechanisms, and functions whilst also citing studies,
if you're wanting to learn how to apply these chemicals to your protocol than skip down to where I begin talking about methods.

Introduction:
Okay, so this in this thread I'm going to do my best at explaining how growth factors and androgens
affect facial development, induce sexual dimorphism and vertical growth, I'm going to begin
explaining the biological mechanisms of these hormones and then how you can apply them
cost-effectively.

HGH:
Somatropin, commonly referred to as HGH or GH is a 191 amino acid chain that is produced by the pituitary gland,
this peptide stimulates growth, cell reproduction, and cell regeneration in humans and other animals. It is thus important in human development.
GH also stimulates the production of IGF-1 and increases the concentration of glucose and free fatty acids. It belongs to a family of hormones known as the growth hormone family. This also includes prolactin (PRL) and placental lactogen. Despite the obvious differences in function, these hormones share a very similar structure. Likewise, GH and PRL are the only two non-tropic hormones synthesized and released from the anterior pituitary gland. (So yes if you're taking cabergoline you will inhibit growth hormone as they are from the same family).

Growth hormone itself isn't actually what induces growth, it's the metabolites of somatropin that induce cell proliferation, hyperplasia, and hypertrophy.
this class of growth factors is called insulin-like growth factors, they are molecularly structured similar to that of insulin, somatropin is needed for the creation of IGF's within the liver. IGF-2 is the primary growth factor responsible for fetal development, whereas IGF-1 is the primary growth factor responsible for inducing growth within adolescent children. (more on insulin-like growth factors later).

somatropin is needed for the development of our bodies, the reason us looksmaxxers are obsessed with it is because of dimorphic growth-related effects
that are induced by the insulin-like growth factor family of hormones.

somatropin's effect on craniofacial development within children.




Yes, these children did have GHDD (growth hormone deficiency disorder), but this doesn't disprove that the usage of exogenous somatropin
can induce craniofacial growth. These children would have been administrated growth hormone dosages that would have aligned with normal children's endogenous production. Our goal with growth hormone is to increase the endogenous production of IGF-1 way above super physiological levels in order to affect our craniofacial growth. Keep in mind, in this study the children were dosed 0.5IU daily, that's around 15-fold less than what I suggest you should dose daily, and these children still reap the positive craniofacial benefits.

The abstract of a study based on how the GH/IGF-1 axis influences bone formation, growth, and remodeling.


somatropin's effect on hard tissue, bone formation, and osteoclasts.


somatropin effects on bone formation through osteoblasts.


The GH/IGF-1 axis and it's interaction with androgens when it comes to bone formation.



Insulin-like growth factors, specifically somatomedin-C (IGF-1):
IGF-1 is produced all the way throughout life. The highest rates of IGF-1 production occur during the pubertal growth spurt. The lowest levels occur in infancy and old age. This is why children grow rapidly during puberty, somatropin is at an all-time high, meaning more conversion to IGF-1, typically in healthy children, the baseline IGF-1 scoring is between 250-500ng/dl, although higher IGF-1 scoring is possible with exogenous intervention.

IGF-1 is a primary mediator of the effects of somatropin (GH), growth hormone is released into the bloodstream, and then stimulates the liver to produce insulin-like growth factors, we are specifically focusing on IGF-1. These IGF's then stimulate systemic body growth and has growth-promoting effects on almost every cell in the body, especially skeletal muscle, cartilage, bone, liver, etc... In addition to the insulin-like effects, IGF-1 can also regulate cellular DNA synthesis. IGF-1 is our friend, we want our levels to be sky-high during puberty to reap all of the dimorphic growth and surpass our genetic potential, there are some road blockages though, along with the insulin-like growth factor family comes the IGFBP's (insulin-like growth factor binding proteins) yeah it's a mouth full jfl. These proteins bind to IGF-1 and inhibit it from attaching to the IGF-1R, basically, it renders our IGF-1 useless within the body. These proteins, unfortunately, have a high affinity to bind to IGF's, there are counter measurements to these IGFBP's though, stay tuned.

Protein intake increases IGF-1 levels in humans, independent of total calorie consumption. Factors that are known to cause variation in the levels of growth hormone (GH) and IGF-1 in the circulation include insulin levels, genetic make-up, the time of day, age, sex, exercise status, stress levels, nutrition level and body mass index, disease state, ethnicity, and estrogen status.

I'm not going to be citing studies for IGF-1, as GH and IGF-1 fall in the same category, the GH/IGF-1 axis is what influences growth.

Androgens, androgenic metabolites, and pro-hormones:
despite the common knowledge surrounding testosterone there seems to be less appreciation when it comes to other androgens. Androgens are synthesized from cholesterol and are produced primarily in the gonads (testicles and ovaries) and also in the adrenal glands to a small extent. The testicles produce a much higher quantity than the ovaries in females. Dimorphic growth is heavily dependent on androgens, specifically testosterone, dihydrotestosterone (DHT), and dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA), I'm going to be underling each androgen, and their biological mechanisms.

View attachment 258656
Testosterone:
testosterone is the primary male sex hormone that is responsible for differentiating a male fetus from a female fetus, In male humans, testosterone plays a key role in the development of reproductive tissues such as testes and prostate, as well as promoting sexual dimorphisms such as increased muscle mass, bone mass and the growth of body hair. The pituitary gland located within the brain produces a signaling chemical called luteinizing hormone (LH), LH signals the Leydig cells within the testes to synthesize testosterone from cholesterol. Production of luteinizing hormone spikes during puberty, sending multiple signals to the Leydig cells to produce more testosterone, in turn, promoting masculinization and dimorphism to occur.

the effect of low dose testosterone on the craniofacial development in children with delayed puberty.


Keep in mind, these children didn't have zero testosterone, they were just experiencing delayed puberty, low dose testosterone was enough to kickstart their craniofacial development.

View attachment 258654
Dihydrotestosterone:
DHT is biologically important for sexual differentiation of the male genitalia during embryogenesis, maturation of the penis and scrotum at puberty, growth of facial, body and pubic hair, and development and maintenance of the prostate gland and seminal vesicles. It is produced from testosterone by an enzyme called 5-alpha-reductase (5AR) in select tissues and is the primary androgen in the genitals, prostate gland, seminal vesicles, skin, and hair follicles. Dihydrotestosterone can have up to 5x the potency of testosterone when it comes to inducing androgenic dimorphism, that isn't to say that testosterone isn't important though.

View attachment 258653
Androsterone:
Androsterone is an androgenic steroid derived via the activity of the enzyme 5-AR and is a downstream metabolite of the more potent androgen DHT. Like all 5-AR derived androgens, androsterone displays anti-estrogenic and anti-glucocorticoid activity and in addition, serves as a pro-hormone for DHT and other potent androgens. In addition, androsterone is a neurosteroid with potent GABA agonist activity and is known to function as a pheromone in many animal species including humans. It has been shown to possess anti-depressant and anti-proliferative effects. Perhaps most importantly, it has been found to act like as a potent thyroid mimetic and as such to increase basal temperature, oxygen consumption and lower lipid levels in humans.

androsterone and its effect on the masculinization of male fetuses.





View attachment 258780
dehydroepiandrosterone
Dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA), also known as androstenolone, is an endogenous steroid hormone. It is one of the most abundant circulating steroids in humans, in whom it is produced in the adrenal glands, the gonads, and the brain. It functions as a metabolic intermediate in the biosynthesis of the androgen and estrogen sex steroids both in the gonads and in various other tissues. On its own, it's a very weak androgen, but it potently converts to testosterone within certain tissue, it is more abundant within females than males as it also converts to estrogen.

How to apply these hormones to your protocol:

let's begin with the growth hormone/igf1 aspect to our protocol, our main goal is to induce craniofacial growth (specifically maxillary and mandibular growth), vertical growth, and dimorphism, this can be achieved via a multitude of method, here we go.

How to increase IGF-1 levels beyond the super physiological natural range
through the usage of exogenous GH and PEPTIDES:

Method 1:
Recombinant growth hormone:
increasing our IGF-1 levels beyond the super physiological range is simple, although I disagree with some of
@Extra Chromosome's opinions on heightmaxxing, I'm going to do my best to express my opinion as I have experience and knowledge within the field of GH and Peptides.

To begin with, I personally think the usage of recombinant growth hormone (synthetic bioidentical somatropin) is the best and most practical way to increase IGF-1 and induce growth, that's not to say that peptides don't have their place, but they aren't as effective as HGH (I'll go into more detail later). Recombinant growth hormone is expensive, very expensive, but if you source it correctly you can bypass the majority of the cost issues.

I'd suggest dosing HGH at around 5IU-8IU's daily. This will skyrocket your IGF-1, even more so if you're a teenager as the conversion rate from somatropin to IGF-1 is higher, in most growing teenagers this amount of GH will put you into the 700-900ng/dl range for IGF-1 scoring, at this level cell proliferation, hyperplasia and osteoblast/osteoclast activity will increase dramatically. In other words, you'll grow, vertically and horizontally. If your soul usage of HGH is for height gains than either exemestane, letrozole or Arimidex will suffice for aromatase inhibition.

To sum method 1 up:
5-8iu's of HGH ED
(optional) Aromatase inhibitor of your choice.

Method 2:
HGH combined with IGF-1 LR3 and IGF-1 DES.
the combination of both exogenous GH and exogenous IGF-1 is amazing. As I've mentioned above alongside insulin-like growth factors comes IGFBP's (Insulin-like growth factor binding proteins) IGFPB's have a high affinity to bind onto IGF-1 and IGF-2 within the bloodstream rendering them useless and unable to attach to the IGF-1R and IGF-2R, meaning a small portion of the HGH that we inject into ourselves is going to waste as these proteins are rendering the IGF-1 unable to function, there is a way around this.

the polypeptides IGF-LR3 and IGF-DES have a low affinity to bind to the IGFBP's, meaning they are up to 3x more potent than regular endogenous IGF-1. IGF-1LR3 also happens to have a half-life of up to 30 hours. IGF-DES is even more potent than LR3, the only downside is that it has a 30-minute half-life before it is metabolized by the body, DES also happens to be more localized, so we are going to opt for LR3 in this method as it is more systemic than DES. The combination of HGH and exogenous IGF-1 will guarantee growth. (if your plates are open of course).

To sum method 2 up:
5-8iu's of HGH ED
IGF-1 LR3 100mcg ED
(optional) IGF-1 DES 50mcg ED
(optional) Aromatase inhibitor

Method 3
Peptide protocol.
peptides can be great for increasing serum levels of growth hormone and inevitably increasing IGF-1 scoring within the blood, the reason why I prefer synthetic GH is that the pituitary gland can only produce so much GH, meaning there is a limit to the number of signals it can take to produce a certain amount of somatropin. For example, you could inject more exogenous GH than you could make endogenous GH with the help of peptides, I hope that makes sense. Peptides can still boost your IGF-1 scoring beyond the natural range, some peptides even stimulate the Pi3k pathways, which is a bonus.

peptides are split up into 2 categories, GHRH's and GHRP's, our bodies make growth hormone-releasing hormone to signal the somatroph cells to produce somatropin within the pituitary gland, GHRH peptides basically tell the pituitary to release GH, growth hormone-releasing peptides basically amplify the production of growth hormone that is being secreted, stacking both a GHRH and a GHRP is necessary for increasing IGF-1 as they synergize well.

here's the peptide protocol that I recommend, whilst on this stack my IGF-1 came back at over 800ng/dl, in that time period I grew an inch and a half in height within 2 and a half months.



switching back and forth from hexarelin and GHRP-2 is necessary as desensitization will occur whilst using hexarelin at any dosage for longer than 14 days. Having 14 days off and 7 days on allows your body to sensitize to the peptide again. I do not recommend the usage of CJC DAC as it has been proven to cause damage to the pituitary gland with chronic usage.

Okay, that sums up the GH/IGF-1 section, overall I'd say if you're on a budget than peptides is the route you should take, if you have more money to spend than go for HGH if you're really fucking determined than take the HGH/IGF-1LR3 route.

The good thing about working with somatropin and peptides is that exogenous usage won't cause a negative feedback loop to occur, meaning if you discontinue the usage of growth hormone you won't feel like shit as you would with testosterone (unless you do a correct PCT). Your endogenous somatropin will begin producing normally again.

How to increase endogenous androgen activity without causing suppression
or shutdown from occurring:
working with androgens can be tricky and dangerous, you can take two routes with androgens, you can either take metabolites and non-suppressive prohormones or you can take androgens like testosterone and cause a shutdown.

the usage of androgens such as dehydroepiandrosterone and androsterone along with progesterone can be of great benefit to those who are looking
to masculinize themselves without using testosterone. dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) is one of the most abundant steroid hormones within the human body, it is produced by the adrenals and can be converted to either testosterone or estrogen. The supplementation of exogenous DHEA alone can lead to both an increase in estrogen and testosterone, combining DHEA with androsterone is a good idea as androsterone is a very powerful anti-aromatase, estrogen isn't the enemy, it's just having high estrogen is a negative, inhibiting the aromatase enzyme from converting testosterone from converting to estrogen allows for the DHEA to convert into testosterone smoothly without a spike in estrogen as your original estrogen will just be replaced.

View attachment 258661
The usage of Delta-sleep-inducing-peptide to increase natural testosterone:
my recent findings suggest that the usage of the delta-sleep inducing peptide (DSIP) can greatly benefit steroid users who are trying to regain their LH production.
DSIP increases the amount of gonadotropin that is being secreted at night time, gonadotropin signals the pituitary gland to produce LH, that LH than signals the Leydig cells to synthesize testosterone from cholesterol. More gonadotropin signaling = more luteinizing hormone signaling meaning more testosterone being made. DSIP also happens to block corticotropin from releasing cortisol, meaning cortisol cannot antagonize testosterone, leaving you with more testosterone to circulate the bloodstream. DSIP also blocks the release of somatostatin (growth hormone inhibiting hormone), somatostatins role is to lower growth hormone if it raises to high, so by blocking the release of this hormone we are preventing our blood serum level of GH dropping.

Delta-sleep inducing peptide is a must for those looking to increase testosterone without the usage of AAS or those who are using peptides and/or Recombinant GH, as it has potent somatostatin inhibiting properties.
check out my thread on DSIP

The usage of HCG
human chorionic gonadotropin is an LH mimic that can be injected subcutaneously, it acts the exact same way that LH does in that it signals the Leydig cells to produce testosterone, HCG will keep your balls from shrinking if you're running testosterone on an AAS cycle. It can increase testosterone but it has a tendency to also increase estrogen, in combination with testosterone it can induce dimorphism greatly, whilst maintaining testicular functions and fertility, it can also be implemented to make your PCT easier.

The usage of exogenous testosterone:
the usage of exogenous testosterone can greatly induce sexual dimorphism, increase bone density, anabolism, protein synthesis, and nitrogen retention. Whilst also saturated the androgen receptors. There are obvious downsides to the usage, but if done effectively there shouldn't be any issues. For teenagers willing to run testosterone, (I don't condone the usage) I'd suggest using testosterone base (no ester attached) dissolved into DMSO applied to the skin, I'd also suggest that you take the best measure to run a safe and sought out PCT.

The usage of exogenous dihydrotestosterone (androstanolone)
dihydrotestosterone can be very beneficial for those who are in the midst of puberty, at the correct dosages it isn't very suppressive and if minimal suppression occurs, then you can easily bounce back. Androstanolone is a synthetic DHT that is bioidentical to DHT. The usage of dihydrotestosterone will have an intense masculinizing effect, if you're in puberty it may affect the size of your penis and frame.

You can make a transdermal concoction with DMSO and androstanolone, with a high absorption rate. Androstanolone is an extremely androgenic steroid hormone, it has highly anti-estrogenic properties so be cautious with the dosages if you don't want to crash your E2 levels.
check out my thread on dihydrotestosterone

conclusion
a combination of both high dosages of either recombinant growth hormone or peptides alongside the optimization or exogenous usage of androgens is synergistic when it comes to craniofacial forward growth, sexual dimorphism and vertical growth.

here's my current stack for perspective.


this took like 3 days to make because I'm a lazy cunt, anyways hoped you gained something from it.

View attachment 258787

hoping that'll answer some questions for you guys.
@JustTrynaGrow @Slyfex8 @draco @Don't Forget to mew @Tom2004 @Crazzen8 @ht-normie-ascending @Dr Shekelberg @forwardgrowth @maxmendietta @PubertyMaxxer @apollothegun @KKK

​

Bookmarked and never going to read even tho i should (good thread lol)

 

[Looksmaxxer_based]

why do u have a naked man in ur avi

its satan

 

[halloweed]

Preface:
I've had a lot of questions in my pm's recently regarding growth hormone, IGF-1, and androgens.
specifically, people asking me for sources and stacks, how they work, etc, I'm hoping this guide will be able to answer as many of your questions as possible.

Disclaimer:
this thread is going to be very long, I'm going, to begin with explaining each of these chemicals, their mechanisms, and functions whilst also citing studies,
if you're wanting to learn how to apply these chemicals to your protocol than skip down to where I begin talking about methods.

Introduction:
Okay, so this in this thread I'm going to do my best at explaining how growth factors and androgens
affect facial development, induce sexual dimorphism and vertical growth, I'm going to begin
explaining the biological mechanisms of these hormones and then how you can apply them
cost-effectively.

HGH:
Somatropin, commonly referred to as HGH or GH is a 191 amino acid chain that is produced by the pituitary gland,
this peptide stimulates growth, cell reproduction, and cell regeneration in humans and other animals. It is thus important in human development.
GH also stimulates the production of IGF-1 and increases the concentration of glucose and free fatty acids. It belongs to a family of hormones known as the growth hormone family. This also includes prolactin (PRL) and placental lactogen. Despite the obvious differences in function, these hormones share a very similar structure. Likewise, GH and PRL are the only two non-tropic hormones synthesized and released from the anterior pituitary gland. (So yes if you're taking cabergoline you will inhibit growth hormone as they are from the same family).

Growth hormone itself isn't actually what induces growth, it's the metabolites of somatropin that induce cell proliferation, hyperplasia, and hypertrophy.
this class of growth factors is called insulin-like growth factors, they are molecularly structured similar to that of insulin, somatropin is needed for the creation of IGF's within the liver. IGF-2 is the primary growth factor responsible for fetal development, whereas IGF-1 is the primary growth factor responsible for inducing growth within adolescent children. (more on insulin-like growth factors later).

somatropin is needed for the development of our bodies, the reason us looksmaxxers are obsessed with it is because of dimorphic growth-related effects
that are induced by the insulin-like growth factor family of hormones.

somatropin's effect on craniofacial development within children.




Yes, these children did have GHDD (growth hormone deficiency disorder), but this doesn't disprove that the usage of exogenous somatropin
can induce craniofacial growth. These children would have been administrated growth hormone dosages that would have aligned with normal children's endogenous production. Our goal with growth hormone is to increase the endogenous production of IGF-1 way above super physiological levels in order to affect our craniofacial growth. Keep in mind, in this study the children were dosed 0.5IU daily, that's around 15-fold less than what I suggest you should dose daily, and these children still reap the positive craniofacial benefits.

The abstract of a study based on how the GH/IGF-1 axis influences bone formation, growth, and remodeling.


somatropin's effect on hard tissue, bone formation, and osteoclasts.


somatropin effects on bone formation through osteoblasts.


The GH/IGF-1 axis and it's interaction with androgens when it comes to bone formation.



Insulin-like growth factors, specifically somatomedin-C (IGF-1):
IGF-1 is produced all the way throughout life. The highest rates of IGF-1 production occur during the pubertal growth spurt. The lowest levels occur in infancy and old age. This is why children grow rapidly during puberty, somatropin is at an all-time high, meaning more conversion to IGF-1, typically in healthy children, the baseline IGF-1 scoring is between 250-500ng/dl, although higher IGF-1 scoring is possible with exogenous intervention.

IGF-1 is a primary mediator of the effects of somatropin (GH), growth hormone is released into the bloodstream, and then stimulates the liver to produce insulin-like growth factors, we are specifically focusing on IGF-1. These IGF's then stimulate systemic body growth and has growth-promoting effects on almost every cell in the body, especially skeletal muscle, cartilage, bone, liver, etc... In addition to the insulin-like effects, IGF-1 can also regulate cellular DNA synthesis. IGF-1 is our friend, we want our levels to be sky-high during puberty to reap all of the dimorphic growth and surpass our genetic potential, there are some road blockages though, along with the insulin-like growth factor family comes the IGFBP's (insulin-like growth factor binding proteins) yeah it's a mouth full jfl. These proteins bind to IGF-1 and inhibit it from attaching to the IGF-1R, basically, it renders our IGF-1 useless within the body. These proteins, unfortunately, have a high affinity to bind to IGF's, there are counter measurements to these IGFBP's though, stay tuned.

Protein intake increases IGF-1 levels in humans, independent of total calorie consumption. Factors that are known to cause variation in the levels of growth hormone (GH) and IGF-1 in the circulation include insulin levels, genetic make-up, the time of day, age, sex, exercise status, stress levels, nutrition level and body mass index, disease state, ethnicity, and estrogen status.

I'm not going to be citing studies for IGF-1, as GH and IGF-1 fall in the same category, the GH/IGF-1 axis is what influences growth.

Androgens, androgenic metabolites, and pro-hormones:
despite the common knowledge surrounding testosterone there seems to be less appreciation when it comes to other androgens. Androgens are synthesized from cholesterol and are produced primarily in the gonads (testicles and ovaries) and also in the adrenal glands to a small extent. The testicles produce a much higher quantity than the ovaries in females. Dimorphic growth is heavily dependent on androgens, specifically testosterone, dihydrotestosterone (DHT), and dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA), I'm going to be underling each androgen, and their biological mechanisms.

View attachment 258656
Testosterone:
testosterone is the primary male sex hormone that is responsible for differentiating a male fetus from a female fetus, In male humans, testosterone plays a key role in the development of reproductive tissues such as testes and prostate, as well as promoting sexual dimorphisms such as increased muscle mass, bone mass and the growth of body hair. The pituitary gland located within the brain produces a signaling chemical called luteinizing hormone (LH), LH signals the Leydig cells within the testes to synthesize testosterone from cholesterol. Production of luteinizing hormone spikes during puberty, sending multiple signals to the Leydig cells to produce more testosterone, in turn, promoting masculinization and dimorphism to occur.

the effect of low dose testosterone on the craniofacial development in children with delayed puberty.


Keep in mind, these children didn't have zero testosterone, they were just experiencing delayed puberty, low dose testosterone was enough to kickstart their craniofacial development.

View attachment 258654
Dihydrotestosterone:
DHT is biologically important for sexual differentiation of the male genitalia during embryogenesis, maturation of the penis and scrotum at puberty, growth of facial, body and pubic hair, and development and maintenance of the prostate gland and seminal vesicles. It is produced from testosterone by an enzyme called 5-alpha-reductase (5AR) in select tissues and is the primary androgen in the genitals, prostate gland, seminal vesicles, skin, and hair follicles. Dihydrotestosterone can have up to 5x the potency of testosterone when it comes to inducing androgenic dimorphism, that isn't to say that testosterone isn't important though.

View attachment 258653
Androsterone:
Androsterone is an androgenic steroid derived via the activity of the enzyme 5-AR and is a downstream metabolite of the more potent androgen DHT. Like all 5-AR derived androgens, androsterone displays anti-estrogenic and anti-glucocorticoid activity and in addition, serves as a pro-hormone for DHT and other potent androgens. In addition, androsterone is a neurosteroid with potent GABA agonist activity and is known to function as a pheromone in many animal species including humans. It has been shown to possess anti-depressant and anti-proliferative effects. Perhaps most importantly, it has been found to act like as a potent thyroid mimetic and as such to increase basal temperature, oxygen consumption and lower lipid levels in humans.

androsterone and its effect on the masculinization of male fetuses.





View attachment 258780
dehydroepiandrosterone
Dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA), also known as androstenolone, is an endogenous steroid hormone. It is one of the most abundant circulating steroids in humans, in whom it is produced in the adrenal glands, the gonads, and the brain. It functions as a metabolic intermediate in the biosynthesis of the androgen and estrogen sex steroids both in the gonads and in various other tissues. On its own, it's a very weak androgen, but it potently converts to testosterone within certain tissue, it is more abundant within females than males as it also converts to estrogen.

How to apply these hormones to your protocol:

let's begin with the growth hormone/igf1 aspect to our protocol, our main goal is to induce craniofacial growth (specifically maxillary and mandibular growth), vertical growth, and dimorphism, this can be achieved via a multitude of method, here we go.

How to increase IGF-1 levels beyond the super physiological natural range
through the usage of exogenous GH and PEPTIDES:

Method 1:
Recombinant growth hormone:
increasing our IGF-1 levels beyond the super physiological range is simple, although I disagree with some of
@Extra Chromosome's opinions on heightmaxxing, I'm going to do my best to express my opinion as I have experience and knowledge within the field of GH and Peptides.

To begin with, I personally think the usage of recombinant growth hormone (synthetic bioidentical somatropin) is the best and most practical way to increase IGF-1 and induce growth, that's not to say that peptides don't have their place, but they aren't as effective as HGH (I'll go into more detail later). Recombinant growth hormone is expensive, very expensive, but if you source it correctly you can bypass the majority of the cost issues.

I'd suggest dosing HGH at around 5IU-8IU's daily. This will skyrocket your IGF-1, even more so if you're a teenager as the conversion rate from somatropin to IGF-1 is higher, in most growing teenagers this amount of GH will put you into the 700-900ng/dl range for IGF-1 scoring, at this level cell proliferation, hyperplasia and osteoblast/osteoclast activity will increase dramatically. In other words, you'll grow, vertically and horizontally. If your soul usage of HGH is for height gains than either exemestane, letrozole or Arimidex will suffice for aromatase inhibition.

To sum method 1 up:
5-8iu's of HGH ED
(optional) Aromatase inhibitor of your choice.

Method 2:
HGH combined with IGF-1 LR3 and IGF-1 DES.
the combination of both exogenous GH and exogenous IGF-1 is amazing. As I've mentioned above alongside insulin-like growth factors comes IGFBP's (Insulin-like growth factor binding proteins) IGFPB's have a high affinity to bind onto IGF-1 and IGF-2 within the bloodstream rendering them useless and unable to attach to the IGF-1R and IGF-2R, meaning a small portion of the HGH that we inject into ourselves is going to waste as these proteins are rendering the IGF-1 unable to function, there is a way around this.

the polypeptides IGF-LR3 and IGF-DES have a low affinity to bind to the IGFBP's, meaning they are up to 3x more potent than regular endogenous IGF-1. IGF-1LR3 also happens to have a half-life of up to 30 hours. IGF-DES is even more potent than LR3, the only downside is that it has a 30-minute half-life before it is metabolized by the body, DES also happens to be more localized, so we are going to opt for LR3 in this method as it is more systemic than DES. The combination of HGH and exogenous IGF-1 will guarantee growth. (if your plates are open of course).

To sum method 2 up:
5-8iu's of HGH ED
IGF-1 LR3 100mcg ED
(optional) IGF-1 DES 50mcg ED
(optional) Aromatase inhibitor

Method 3
Peptide protocol.
peptides can be great for increasing serum levels of growth hormone and inevitably increasing IGF-1 scoring within the blood, the reason why I prefer synthetic GH is that the pituitary gland can only produce so much GH, meaning there is a limit to the number of signals it can take to produce a certain amount of somatropin. For example, you could inject more exogenous GH than you could make endogenous GH with the help of peptides, I hope that makes sense. Peptides can still boost your IGF-1 scoring beyond the natural range, some peptides even stimulate the Pi3k pathways, which is a bonus.

peptides are split up into 2 categories, GHRH's and GHRP's, our bodies make growth hormone-releasing hormone to signal the somatroph cells to produce somatropin within the pituitary gland, GHRH peptides basically tell the pituitary to release GH, growth hormone-releasing peptides basically amplify the production of growth hormone that is being secreted, stacking both a GHRH and a GHRP is necessary for increasing IGF-1 as they synergize well.

here's the peptide protocol that I recommend, whilst on this stack my IGF-1 came back at over 800ng/dl, in that time period I grew an inch and a half in height within 2 and a half months.



switching back and forth from hexarelin and GHRP-2 is necessary as desensitization will occur whilst using hexarelin at any dosage for longer than 14 days. Having 14 days off and 7 days on allows your body to sensitize to the peptide again. I do not recommend the usage of CJC DAC as it has been proven to cause damage to the pituitary gland with chronic usage.

Okay, that sums up the GH/IGF-1 section, overall I'd say if you're on a budget than peptides is the route you should take, if you have more money to spend than go for HGH if you're really fucking determined than take the HGH/IGF-1LR3 route.

The good thing about working with somatropin and peptides is that exogenous usage won't cause a negative feedback loop to occur, meaning if you discontinue the usage of growth hormone you won't feel like shit as you would with testosterone (unless you do a correct PCT). Your endogenous somatropin will begin producing normally again.

How to increase endogenous androgen activity without causing suppression
or shutdown from occurring:
working with androgens can be tricky and dangerous, you can take two routes with androgens, you can either take metabolites and non-suppressive prohormones or you can take androgens like testosterone and cause a shutdown.

the usage of androgens such as dehydroepiandrosterone and androsterone along with progesterone can be of great benefit to those who are looking
to masculinize themselves without using testosterone. dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) is one of the most abundant steroid hormones within the human body, it is produced by the adrenals and can be converted to either testosterone or estrogen. The supplementation of exogenous DHEA alone can lead to both an increase in estrogen and testosterone, combining DHEA with androsterone is a good idea as androsterone is a very powerful anti-aromatase, estrogen isn't the enemy, it's just having high estrogen is a negative, inhibiting the aromatase enzyme from converting testosterone from converting to estrogen allows for the DHEA to convert into testosterone smoothly without a spike in estrogen as your original estrogen will just be replaced.

View attachment 258661
The usage of Delta-sleep-inducing-peptide to increase natural testosterone:
my recent findings suggest that the usage of the delta-sleep inducing peptide (DSIP) can greatly benefit steroid users who are trying to regain their LH production.
DSIP increases the amount of gonadotropin that is being secreted at night time, gonadotropin signals the pituitary gland to produce LH, that LH than signals the Leydig cells to synthesize testosterone from cholesterol. More gonadotropin signaling = more luteinizing hormone signaling meaning more testosterone being made. DSIP also happens to block corticotropin from releasing cortisol, meaning cortisol cannot antagonize testosterone, leaving you with more testosterone to circulate the bloodstream. DSIP also blocks the release of somatostatin (growth hormone inhibiting hormone), somatostatins role is to lower growth hormone if it raises to high, so by blocking the release of this hormone we are preventing our blood serum level of GH dropping.

Delta-sleep inducing peptide is a must for those looking to increase testosterone without the usage of AAS or those who are using peptides and/or Recombinant GH, as it has potent somatostatin inhibiting properties.
check out my thread on DSIP

The usage of HCG
human chorionic gonadotropin is an LH mimic that can be injected subcutaneously, it acts the exact same way that LH does in that it signals the Leydig cells to produce testosterone, HCG will keep your balls from shrinking if you're running testosterone on an AAS cycle. It can increase testosterone but it has a tendency to also increase estrogen, in combination with testosterone it can induce dimorphism greatly, whilst maintaining testicular functions and fertility, it can also be implemented to make your PCT easier.

The usage of exogenous testosterone:
the usage of exogenous testosterone can greatly induce sexual dimorphism, increase bone density, anabolism, protein synthesis, and nitrogen retention. Whilst also saturated the androgen receptors. There are obvious downsides to the usage, but if done effectively there shouldn't be any issues. For teenagers willing to run testosterone, (I don't condone the usage) I'd suggest using testosterone base (no ester attached) dissolved into DMSO applied to the skin, I'd also suggest that you take the best measure to run a safe and sought out PCT.

The usage of exogenous dihydrotestosterone (androstanolone)
dihydrotestosterone can be very beneficial for those who are in the midst of puberty, at the correct dosages it isn't very suppressive and if minimal suppression occurs, then you can easily bounce back. Androstanolone is a synthetic DHT that is bioidentical to DHT. The usage of dihydrotestosterone will have an intense masculinizing effect, if you're in puberty it may affect the size of your penis and frame.

You can make a transdermal concoction with DMSO and androstanolone, with a high absorption rate. Androstanolone is an extremely androgenic steroid hormone, it has highly anti-estrogenic properties so be cautious with the dosages if you don't want to crash your E2 levels.
check out my thread on dihydrotestosterone

conclusion
a combination of both high dosages of either recombinant growth hormone or peptides alongside the optimization or exogenous usage of androgens is synergistic when it comes to craniofacial forward growth, sexual dimorphism and vertical growth.

here's my current stack for perspective.


this took like 3 days to make because I'm a lazy cunt, anyways hoped you gained something from it.

View attachment 258787

hoping that'll answer some questions for you guys.
@JustTrynaGrow @Slyfex8 @draco @Don't Forget to mew @Tom2004 @Crazzen8 @ht-normie-ascending @Dr Shekelberg @forwardgrowth @maxmendietta @PubertyMaxxer @apollothegun @KKK

​

Where could I get androstanolone ASAP?

 

[sb23]

Where could I get androstanolone ASAP?

 

[Lovecraftscat]

If you haven't realized it yet, HORMONES ARE EVERYTHING

Nope, it's androgen receptors and genes, you can have terra high t but it's can still be ultimately useless

 

[halloweed]

Nope, it's androgen receptors and genes, you can have terra high t but it's can still be ultimately useless

Steroids increase androgen receptors but you’re still correct.

 

[wastedspermcel]

Where could I get androstanolone ASAP?

I need to know too fr, gotta rub that shit on my dick, forearms and clavicles

 

[halloweed]

I need to know too fr, gotta rub that shit on my dick, forearms and clavicles

initt u heard of alphagels? Apparently they got them but they seem dodgy icl

 

[wastedspermcel]

initt u heard of alphagels? Apparently they got them but they seem dodgy icl

Yh they sell 10% dht gel which is weird ngl. They have a mixed rep on reddit but I don't know how to contact them anyway

 

[halloweed]

Yh they sell 10% dht gel which is weird ngl. They have a mixed rep on reddit but I don't know how to contact them anyway

Some guy here was advertising them so that’s why I’m weary, plus they only accept crypto payment through email.

 

[wastedspermcel]

Some guy here was advertising them so that’s why I’m weary, plus they only accept crypto payment through email.

It'd be best to get actual andractim but I've got no clue where to get it from

 

[halloweed]

It'd be best to get actual andractim but I've got no clue where to get it from

I’ve seen andractim online.. for £200

 

[wastedspermcel]

I’ve seen andractim online.. for £200

Fucking hell man there's no way it needs to be that expensive, greedy mfs

 

[halloweed]

Fucking hell man there's no way it needs to be that expensive, greedy mfs

How greeedy

 

[wastedspermcel]

How greeedy

Icl man I might have to order off of indiamart

 

[halloweed]

Icl man I might have to order off of indiamart

Do they have it?