viewed from the front, is the apparent position of your gonion where your gonion actually is?

[longjohnmong]

mine is not. what this site would call the gonion (like when speaking of "outward gonions") is actually the peak of my masseter muscle and it's higher and more forward than my actual gonion. is it the same for you?

 

[pentamogged9000]

x ray i think probaby;

 

[longjohnmong]

x ray i think probaby;

i don't understand what you're saying

look at your self in the mirror from the front, and put your finger on this point right here:

now find this point on your bone:

are they the same spot?

 

[pentamogged9000]

x ray nmayvbe

 

[DelonLover1999]

this might be due to a presence (or lack there of) of an antegonial notch, i think

 

[Mr. President]

so this is where the masseter position comes into play. most have straight gonions but their masseters insertions make it look inward. thats why visibly outward gonions are such a halo

 

[Deleted member 18582]

i have the same thing, from the front angle the tipmost point is not actually the gonion, but the masseter muscle. if i place my fingers on my actual gonions, then from the front, I looks like i'm reaching "behind" the masseter

 

[longjohnmong]

i have the same thing, from the front angle the tipmost point is not actually the gonion, but the masseter muscle. if i place my fingers on my actual gonions, then from the front, I looks like i'm reaching "behind" the masseter

thank you for actually answering the question. my hypothesis is that this is the case with everyone.

so this is where the masseter position comes into play. most have straight gonions but their masseters insertions make it look inward. thats why visibly outward gonions are such a halo

yeah, and this is what i'm getting at. if it's actually masseter insertion and shape that gives your jaw its look from the front then should you really be trying to create that look by flaring the actual gonia way out with implants?

 

[Deleted member 18582]

yeah, and this is what i'm getting at. if it's actually masseter insertion and shape that gives your jaw its look from the front then should you really be trying to create that look by flaring the actual gonia way out?

I would suspect this probably plays a big role in why many jaw implants look uncanny/bloated, especially if one is taking the gonions outward. The size, strength, and shape of the masseters goes in hand with certain jaw shapes I would guess. The takeaway here you seem to be suggesting is that the appearance of outward gonions is attributable to a relatively weaker or thinner masseter muscles rather than a bigger jaw per se.

 

[longjohnmong]

The takeaway here you seem to be suggesting is that the appearance of outward gonions is attributable to a relatively weaker or thinner masseter muscles rather than a bigger jaw per se.

I wasn't suggesting any in particular except that maybe focusing on the gonion isn't the right approach.

Another thing is that if you have flared gonia I believe the massester attaches to the flare, but it's not going to attach to an implant, so implant will stretch it in an unnatural way. Yeah, it can cause dehiscence, but does it also create a bad aesthetic result.

What about an implant that just projects the entire suface of the ramus and jaw angle by an even amount?

 

[Deleted member 18582]

I wasn't suggesting any in particular except that maybe focusing on the gonion isn't the right approach.

Another thing is that if you have flared gonia I believe the massester attaches to the flare, but it's not going to attach to an implant, so implant will stretch it in an unnatural way. Yeah, it can cause dehiscence, but does it also create a bad aesthetic result.

What about an implant that just projects the entire suface of the ramus and jaw angle by an even amount?

I always thought implants where you get flared gonions look so unnatural even just on the simulations. I haven't seen any skull naturally looking at the right, on CTs of flared gonia people I've seen the bone actually only very subtly goes outward. nothing at all like the right:

About the implant. This also makes me wonder about jaw widening bimax , since they just widen the ramus and not the gonions. In fact in the simulations I've seen the gonions end up turning slightly less flared and more "straight." If you're just widening the ramus, you would in fact be more likely to reduce the appearance of the gonions, since from the front view you will see more ramus and therefore masseter rather than the bony tip of the gonion per se? But it may be that wider ramuses are correlated to wider gonions, so it gives you a base to be able to make flared gonions look more natural if you go that route with jaw implants after.

 

[T50 Mogger]

Not for me. The angle is lower from the front due to masseter development, I've essentially 0 ramus to speak of. Chewing mogs.

 

[Mezo103]

i don't understand what you're saying

look at your self in the mirror from the front, and put your finger on this point right here:

View attachment 2407358

now find this point on your bone:

View attachment 2407363

are they the same spot?

My gonion seems to be lower than where my masseter is attatched

 

[bobsmith03]

I always thought implants where you get flared gonions look so unnatural even just on the simulations. I haven't seen any skull naturally looking at the right, on CTs of flared gonia people I've seen the bone actually only very subtly goes outward. nothing at all like the right:

About the implant. This also makes me wonder about jaw widening bimax , since they just widen the ramus and not the gonions. In fact in the simulations I've seen the gonions end up turning slightly less flared and more "straight." If you're just widening the ramus, you would in fact be more likely to reduce the appearance of the gonions, since from the front view you will see more ramus and therefore masseter rather than the bony tip of the gonion per se? But it may be that wider ramuses are correlated to wider gonions, so it gives you a base to be able to make flared gonions look more natural if you go that route with jaw implants after.

You're so right. My left ramus is 1cm shorter and it looks more defined than my right side.

 

[Soomif999]

I got exact same problem, i have a pretty much square jaw but the widest point of it is my masseter so is it over?