Where have the religious discussions gone ???

[Genio]

nah not gnostic they didnt even believe the human form of jesus
Chalcedon doesnt imply 2 persons, if so explain
ye greatest catholic when we says hes a heretic

Thats Docetists, im not talking about them.

Alexandrian Gnostics believed in a Human adopted by God and ennacted by God, Essentially what Leo teaches, and what Irenaeus portrays as "Chalcedonian Orthodoxy"

How did the Lord proclaim things while he existed in flesh and after he had revealed himself as Son of God? He lived in this place where you remain, speaking about the Law of Nature - but I call it 'Death'. Now the Son of God, Rheginos, was Son of Man. Having both humanity and divinity, so that he might conquer death through being a divine son, and that through the son of man might come to pass the return to the fullness the restoration to the Pleroma might occur.

Valentinius of Alexandria, Preserved Fragment on the Treatise on the Resurrection, Epistle to Rheginos.

Compare to:

The activity of each form is what is proper to it in communion with the other. that is, the Word preforms what belongs to the Word, and the Flesh accomplishes what belongs to the Flesh. one of these preforms brilliant miracles; The other sustains acts of Violence.

Pope Leo the First, Epistola XXVIII. Ad Flavianum episcopum Constantinopolitanum

 

[ltn gooner]

View attachment 4720766

Er hat noch viel zu lernen ngl, aber wenigstens glaubt er an den richtigen Gott

 

[Mainlander]

Er hat noch viel zu lernen ngl, aber wenigstens glaubt er an den richtigen Gott

unmöglich zu wissen wer der "richtige Gott" ist

 

[ltn gooner]

Thats Docetists, im not talking about them.

Alexandrian Gnostics believed in a Human adopted by God and ennacted by God, Essentially what Leo teaches, and what Irenaeus portrays as "Chalcedonian Orthodoxy"

Valentinius of Alexandria, Preserved Fragment on the Treatise on the Resurrection, Epistle to Rheginos.

Compare to:


Pope Leo the First, Epistola XXVIII. Ad Flavianum episcopum Constantinopolitanum

Nothing of those things you listed proves/disproves anyone here

 

[ltn gooner]

unmöglich zu wissen wer der "richtige Gott" ist

Ich behaupte das Gegenteil. Erklär mal deine Standpunkt genauer

 

[aaronbp]

Thats Docetists, im not talking about them.

Alexandrian Gnostics believed in a Human adopted by God and ennacted by God, Essentially what Leo teaches, and what Irenaeus portrays as "Chalcedonian Orthodoxy"

Valentinius of Alexandria, Preserved Fragment on the Treatise on the Resurrection, Epistle to Rheginos.

Compare to:


Pope Leo the First, Epistola XXVIII. Ad Flavianum episcopum Constantinopolitanum

yes u r right i switched them up mb, lemme get this straight your point is that the vatican got highly influenced by Gnostics am i right?
or am i a retard now

 

[Genio]

Chalcedon never said hypostasis=person. If so we would worship 3 Gods ??? What don't you understand 2 natures, one human, one divine

You have 0 clear understanding on Chalcedonian Terminology.

3 Gods would equate to 3 Essences, However the 3 Deities are Hypostasis, Because they are persons.
This is what Fulgentius taught us, this is what Damscene taught us.

Unfortunately, theres no going back from this, since even Chalcedonian Scholars, Like Meyendorff (EO) and Kasper (RC) believe that Chalcedon held that Hypostasis equated a Person and that this wasnt the common view prior to Chalc. I

At Chalcedon, the Fathers, following the express desire of the emperor, had promulgated a new definition of the faith, ... Few of them were articulate theologians, so that, in the years which immediately followed the council, the only authoritative spokesman for Chalcedon in the East happened to be Theodoret of Cyrus, but his authority, in spite of his rehabilitation in 451, was marred by his earlier polemics against Cyril. And, in actual fact, Theodoret never really understood Cyril’s Christology. His writings continued to reflect the basic approach off Theodore of Mopsuestia, an attitude—so he thought—Chalcedon had legitimized. The absence, in the Chalcedonian camp, of authoritative theological figures, ... a balanced re affirmation of Cyrillian Christology, had tragic consequences in the face of the spontaneous popular remit provoked by the deposition of the Alexandrian pope, Dioscoros

John Meyendorff, Imperial Unity and Christian Divisions, p. 187

 

[ltn gooner]

yes u r right i switched them up mb, lemme get this straight your point is that the vatican got highly influenced by Gnostics am i right?
or am i a retard now

Nah the gnostics where an influential group at the time and some of their stuff let the churchfathers to the right conclusion that the son has two natures, one human and one divine, but is just one being

 

[aaronbp]

Nah the gnostics where an influential group at the time and some of their stuff let the churchfathers to the right conclusion that the son has two natures, one human and one divine, but is just one being

yes i know, but im not getting what point he trys to make?

 

[Genio]

yes u r right i switched them up mb, lemme get this straight your point is that the vatican got highly influenced by Gnostics am i right?
or am i a retard now

Yeah, Since Valentinius was exiled from Alexandria, He went to the West (Rome) and preached that the Man was assumed by the Divine, and was ennacted with his own Will and Mind, and was just a shameful counterpart to be crucified, This is peak Nestorianism and then preached by Leo I in his Tome to Flavian.

This led to Tertullian into Heretical Christologia due to Local Gnostics led by Valentinius in Carthage, Novatian in Roma (where Valentinius lived and the Prime of Gnostics), and then Augustine due to the influence of Tertullian Nestorianism in Africa (not Northern afr.)

Leo was then Influenced by Augustine and Tertullian who were considered the 2 most influential Latin-African Fathers.

 

[Genio]

Nothing of those things you listed proves/disproves anyone here

Hello? can u not read?

Gnostics: The Divine Son transcends Humanity, While the Man does what is attainable to the Flesh
Leo: The Divinity does what is proper to the Divinity, The Flesh does what is proper to the Flesh.

Cyril continuosly condemns this in his "On Orthodoxy" Treatise and Epistles, as this inherently leads to 2 minds and 2 countering wills. This is Nestorianism.

 

[ltn gooner]

You have 0 clear understanding on Chalcedonian Terminology.

3 Gods would equate to 3 Essences, However the 3 Deities are Hypostasis, Because they are persons.
This is what Fulgentius taught us, this is what Damscene taught us.

Unfortunately, theres no going back from this, since even Chalcedonian Scholars, Like Meyendorff (EO) and Kasper (RC) believe that Chalcedon held that Hypostasis equated a Person and that this wasnt the common view prior to Chalc. I


John Meyendorff, Imperial Unity and Christian Divisions, p. 187

Mb, i missread yo Text, im kinda tired from arguing half the day ngl. I might be dumb but what tf has the Text to do with your argument ?

 

[clock]

I understand your argumentation. But God made all things logically. If you made every creature the best that they can be, they would still evolve and still would slaughter other animals. Its just logical that it is like that. Idk what you believed or what you followed as a Christian and iam really sorry that it drove you into depression. I hope and pray that you may find to Christ in the future. Btw i only answered one argument of yours bcs im tired rn, have been debating since ours. I might give you more answers tomorrow. God bless you bhai

Gonna have to agree to disagree. In my opinion, if God is all powerful as described, logic doesn’t apply to him, he creates logic. He can create whatever he wants however he wants, so ya idk.

All love though bhai

 

[Genio]

Mb, i missread yo Text, im kinda tired from arguing half the day ngl. I might be dumb but what tf has the Text to do with your argument ?

Gnostics believed that the Man does what is attainable to the Flesh, and the Divine Son does what the Divine Son wants to do.
Nestorius believed that the Human was assumed by the Divine (bordering Adoptionsim) and the Man does what pertains to the Flesh
Leo verbatim follows both Groups due to the Gnostic influence of Tertullian on Latins such as Gaudentius of Brescia, Eusebius of Vercelli, and Novatian. Nestorian Influence on Augustine (as Theodore of Mops.) (ends up repenting of it in his Retractions).

This all led to Leo's influence on Nestorian Dyophysitism. as Irenaeus condemns each phrase both Gnostics and Nestorians used to describe the Incarnation.

 

[ltn gooner]

Gonna have to agree to disagree. In my opinion, if God is all powerful as described, logic doesn’t apply to him, he creates logic. He can create whatever he wants however he wants, so ya idk.

All love though bhai

Dyk the Dilemma, if God can create a rock that he can't lift up ? Thats the same God can't do anything outside of logic because he is logical

 

[aaronbp]

Yeah, Since Valentinius was exiled from Alexandria, He went to the West (Rome) and preached that the Man was assumed by the Divine, and was ennacted with his own Will and Mind, and was just a shameful counterpart to be crucified, This is peak Nestorianism and then preached by Leo I in his Tome to Flavian.

This led to Tertullian into Heretical Christologia due to Local Gnostics led by Valentinius in Carthage, Novatian in Roma (where Valentinius lived and the Prime of Gnostics), and then Augustine due to the influence of Tertullian Nestorianism in Africa (not Northern afr.)

Leo was then Influenced by Augustine and Tertullian who were considered the 2 most influential Latin-African Fathers.

so yes leo got influenced due to recent debates with all their stances, yet he didnt take them over?

 

[clock]

Dyk the Dilemma, if God can create a rock that he can't lift up ? Thats the same God can't do anything outside of logic because he is logical

God could create a rock that he could not pick up. He can create and remove logic. He could create an immovable rock, and with his all powerful nature, he can remove the logic he created and make the rock lift able again.

 

[Genio]

so yes leo got influenced due to recent debates with all their stances, yet he didnt take them over?

It wasnt recent, it was gnostic influence on multiple centuries without proper criticism which led to him adopting this since it was in influential Latin Fathers.

 

[aaronbp]

It wasnt recent, it was gnostic influence on multiple centuries without proper criticism which led to him adopting this since it was in influential Latin Fathers.

then show me the adoption

 

[ltn gooner]

Gnostics believed that the Man does what is attainable to the Flesh, and the Divine Son does what the Divine Son wants to do.
Nestorius believed that the Human was assumed by the Divine (bordering Adoptionsim) and the Man does what pertains to the Flesh
Leo verbatim follows both Groups due to the Gnostic influence of Tertullian on Latins such as Gaudentius of Brescia, Eusebius of Vercelli, and Novatian. Nestorian Influence on Augustine (as Theodore of Mops.) (ends up repenting of it in his Retractions).

This all led to Leo's influence on Nestorian Dyophysitism. as Irenaeus condemns each phrase both Gnostics and Nestorians used to describe the Incarnation.

Okay, i get that. But why tf is dyophysitism now nestorian. Nestorianism and dyophysitism have nothing to do with eachother. Its just that influence from the pope, but there were other bishops too on that council

 

[Genio]

Okay, i get that. But why tf is dyophysitism now nestorian. Nestorianism and dyophysitism have nothing to do with eachother. Its just that influence from the pope, but there were other bishops too on that council

What do u think Nestorianism is? genuine question.

 

[ltn gooner]

God could create a rock that he could not pick up. He can create and remove logic. He could create an immovable rock, and with his all powerful nature, he can remove the logic he created and make the rock lift able again.

The term unmoveable rock, this is a just a contradiction and a contradiction doesnt have the nature of the possible. You cant have a married bachelor. And since God is absolute truth, a logical contradiction would be an act against his own nature. I had to look that up tbh but st Thomas aquinas got my back .

 

[ltn gooner]

What do u think Nestorianism is? genuine question.

Its the heresie that Jesus is two destinct persons, one divine and one human. And mary only gave birth to human Jesus

 

[clock]

The term unmoveable rock, this is a just a contradiction and a contradiction doesnt have the nature of the possible. You cant have a married bachelor. And since God is absolute truth, a logical contradiction would be an act against his own nature. I had to look that up tbh but st Thomas aquinas got my back .

i’ve actually read books by Thomas Aquinas. If he is all powerful he can create logic, physics, science, laws. He can create whatever he wants. If he wants to make a rock that he can’t physically move than he can do that. When he wants to move it, he can remove the logic/physics or whatever u want to call it and make the rock moveable. You are looking at this through the lens of our reality but an Omnipotent being is beyond that. If And, immovable rock or not, God could still make the world a better place and not mass punish the race of humans because of some petty mistake Adam and Eve made.

 

[ltn gooner]

i’ve actually read books by Thomas Aquinas. If he is all powerful he can create logic, physics, science, laws. He can create whatever he wants. If he wants to make a rock that he can’t physically move than he can do that. When he wants to move it, he can remove the logic/physics or whatever u want to call it and make the rock moveable. You are looking at this through the lens of our reality but an Omnipotent being is beyond that. If And, immovable rock or not, God could still make the world a better place and not mass punish the race of humans because of some petty mistake Adam and Eve made.

He couldn't, bcs everyone is a sinner and it wouldn't be righteous to just take some people and others not. And as i said God can't because God is absolute truth, a logical contradiction would be an act against his own nature.

 

[Genio]

Its the heresie that Jesus is two destinct persons, one divine and one human. And mary only gave birth to human Jesus

Nestorius never preached that Christ was two persons, in multiple instances he condemned believing in 2 persons and said that Christ is only 1 person with 2 Natures.

So far from God the Word being one person and the man, in whom He is, another, it is One and Self same in two natures and yet one Christ, Son and Lord.

Friedrich Loofs, Fragments of Nestorius of Constantinople, Nestoriana, p244.

He also didnt have a problem with Theotokos (Or that Mary gave birth to the Son of God;

In the case of the term Theotokos, I am not opposed to those who want to say it, unless it should advance to the confusion of natures in the manner of the madness of Apollinaris or Arius.

Nestorius of Constantinople, Third Epistle to Pope Celestine of Roma.

 

[Daddy's Home]

Imagine caring about imaginary friends in the big 2026..

Just because your parents gave birth to you ugly, short, poor and you're going to die a virgin, doesn't mean that in the next life you'll be an immortal chad who can fuck as many virgins as he wants bro..

We are just some dumb random animals like any others.. it's not that deep bro..

You don't even remember your great-great-grandfather, and your great-great-grandchildren will feel the same way about you.. You are not that important bro..

Like, just a few hundred years ago, we used to cut each other wide open when alive, eat each other, torture each other in front of others, kill each other, rape any woman or child at any daily erection , most children died at birth, most women died when they gave birth, most people died after only 30-40 years from a simple cold..

That was the normality for tens of thousands of years, and it's truly a miracle that we, in particular, were born in this historical period in particular, where we have relative peace and technology to help us, and we did not have to experience those absolutely miserable and nightmarish times and periods..

 

[ltn gooner]

Nestorius never preached that Christ was two persons, in multiple instances he condemned believing in 2 persons and said that Christ is only 1 person with 2 Natures.

Friedrich Loofs, Fragments of Nestorius of Constantinople, Nestoriana, p244.

He also didnt have a problem with Theotokos (Or that Mary gave birth to the Son of God;

Nestorius of Constantinople, Third Epistle to Pope Celestine of Roma.

You didn't do yo homework buddy. Nestorius accepted the term theotokos after he was threatend by st cyrill and pope celestian to be excomunicated by the church. He accepted it but hold his view about the two seperable natures (mb). Dyophysitism believes in two inseparable natures and even st cyrill of Alexandria admitted it in Letter to Acacius of Melitene (Letter 40). He clarifies that the talk of "two natures" is orthodox as long as it does not dissolve the unity of the one Christ.

 

[ltn gooner]

Imagine caring about imaginary friends in the big 2026..

Just because your parents gave birth to you ugly, short, poor and you're going to die a virgin, doesn't mean that in the next life you'll be an immortal chad who can fuck as many virgins as he wants bro..

We are just some dumb random animals like any others.. it's not that deep bro..

You don't even remember your great-great-grandfather, and your great-great-grandchildren will feel the same way about you.. You are not that important bro..

Like, just a few hundred years ago, we used to cut each other wide open when alive, eat each other, torture each other in front of others, kill each other, rape any woman or child at any daily erection , most children died at birth, most women died when they gave birth, most people died after only 30-40 years from a simple cold..

That was the normality for tens of thousands of years, and it's truly a miracle that we, in particular, were born in this historical period in particular, where we have relative peace and technology to help us, and we did not have to experience those absolutely miserable and nightmarish times and periods..

Im not gonna respond to your incel rage in the first part of the text, but what happened in the last part ? Someone got greatful

 

[ltn gooner]

Imagine caring about imaginary friends in the big 2026..

Just because your parents gave birth to you ugly, short, poor and you're going to die a virgin, doesn't mean that in the next life you'll be an immortal chad who can fuck as many virgins as he wants bro..

We are just some dumb random animals like any others.. it's not that deep bro..

You don't even remember your great-great-grandfather, and your great-great-grandchildren will feel the same way about you.. You are not that important bro..

Like, just a few hundred years ago, we used to cut each other wide open when alive, eat each other, torture each other in front of others, kill each other, rape any woman or child at any daily erection , most children died at birth, most women died when they gave birth, most people died after only 30-40 years from a simple cold..

That was the normality for tens of thousands of years, and it's truly a miracle that we, in particular, were born in this historical period in particular, where we have relative peace and technology to help us, and we did not have to experience those absolutely miserable and nightmarish times and periods..

But Gods real tho, don't be fooled boyo

 

[Genio]

You didn't do yo homework buddy. Nestorius accepted the term theotokos after he was threatend by st cyrill and pope celestian to be excomunicated by the church. He accepted it but hold his view about the two seperable natures (mb). Dyophysitism believes in two inseparable natures and even st cyrill of Alexandria admitted it in Letter to Acacius of Melitene (Letter 40). He clarifies that the talk of "two natures" is orthodox as long as it does not dissolve the unity of the one Christ.

His letter to Pope Celestine was prior to Eph I by atleast 2 Years.

Cyrils entire argument was that 2 Natures post Henosis inherently leads to 2 Persons since they constitute 2 Hypostasis. Get me one single quote from Nestorius where he purposefully Seperates the natures and ill start my Catechesis to the RC Church.

Also i dont know what letter 40 to Acacius of Melitene youre reading, this is what he has to say about 2 Natures LMAO

In this way, when we have the idea of the elements of the one and unique Son and Lord Jesus Christ, we speak of two natures being united; but after the union, the duality has been abolished and we believe the Son's nature to be one, since he is one Son, yet become man and incarnate.

Pope St. Cyril the Great of Alexandria, Letter 40 to Acacius of Melitene

And this is Acacius of Melitene's resposne WHICH IS EVEN MORE BRUTAL.

I write your reverence for all... let everyone be forced to publicly anathematize the dogmas of Nestorius and Theodore: especially those who say two natures after the union, properly each one working. For of those who are in Germany I have found some experienced, indeed refusing to say two sons, but indeed not refusing to say two natures. Wherefore if it be granted... there is no other thing than to confess two sons again, and bring in the parts.

St. Acacius of Melitine, First Epistle to Cyril of Alexandria

Acacius Verbatim says
Two Natures after the Union equate to Two Sons, Since 2 Hypostasis remain.
Cyril Verbatim says
If u do not confess One Nature post Henosis, then u do not confess One Person, Since the Natures are Hypostasis.|

Notice how throughout this entire argument, Im the only one to continue quoting kek.

 

[Daddy's Home]

But Gods real tho, don't be fooled boyo

What god bro.. it's not only just one..

Not to mention that most of them have disappeared/been forgotten in history, and no one cares about them anymore..
And yes, this phase of disappearance / forgetting / nobody giving a shit about these gods of the past will also happen to those who happen to be our contemporaries (they didn't exist in the past, so they won't exist in the future either) at some point in the future..

You don't care about some random god who existed tens of thousands of years ago before your current god, and generations of people tens of thousands of years from now won't care about your god either, because they'll have someone else, or none at all..
Just try to be a little reasonable and think logically with your mind, which tells you that 1 + 1 equals 2

 

[jl25]

I remember like a year+ ago there were some debates here and there and it was honestly fun to watch. But now i feel like every religious mf on here left. There are some christians like myself but no beef goin on like catholic vs protestant. I feel like the muslims on here left too and even the atheists are too scared to post on their faith.
LETS BRING BACK RELIGIOUS DEBATES
FUCK ATHEISM, FUCK ISLAM, SUBMIT TO ROME INCEL

religious people shouldn’t even be on here

 

[iblameocclusalcant]

So you demand sources from me but when I want them your tell me ‘do some effort’. Jfl you’re mad that you have nothing. So much for muh addressing every point

I already told you my source. Like I said, I won't waste more of my time on you.

No proof of biblical corruption.

Same here with the Quran.

Why tf should it make sense. The claim comes from your side. We know from the bible that she was old enough to marry and she carried water, what a 3yo can't do. So you provide me a source that she was 3yo

 

[ProBono]

anything but looksmaxxing istg

 

[Genio]

I already told you my source. Like I said, I won't waste more of my time on you.

Same here with the Quran.

View attachment 4722529

well yeah, but Islam cannot be correct if tthe Bible isnt corrupted, since its a well known fact accepted by majority scholars that the Quran came due to the Corruption of Previous Prophetic texts.

 

[iblameocclusalcant]

well yeah, but Islam cannot be correct if tthe Bible isnt corrupted, since its a well known fact accepted by majority scholars that the Quran came due to the Corruption of Previous Prophetic texts.

I can go into details about this as this is a whole other topic of discussion, but I'm tired of bumping this thread ngl.

 

[ltn gooner]

I already told you my source. Like I said, I won't waste more of my time on you.

Same here with the Quran.

View attachment 4722529

Your whole argument is a misinterpretation. Here it states that Abraham was told about the birth of rebekahs father at the time you mentionend. It only states that her father became the father of rebekah afterwards. So your whole timeline calculation doesn't make sense.

 

[ltn gooner]

anything but looksmaxxing istg

Thats faith maxxing

 

[ltn gooner]

religious people shouldn’t even be on here

Why ?

 

[iblameocclusalcant]

View attachment 4723280
Your whole argument is a misinterpretation. Here it states that Abraham was told about the birth of rebekahs father at the time you mentionend. It only states that her father became the father of rebekah afterwards. So your whole timeline calculation doesn't make sense.

So whats her age according to you

 

[ocdcel]

But now i feel like every religious mf on here left.

I would actually like to argue that religious mfs didn't left, but they have resigned from their faith.(stopped being religious)
When your this deep into bp, You slowly start to lack hope, as a person who was once an agnostic atheist i get it.

 

[Francisco_Bs]

I remember like a year+ ago there were some debates here and there and it was honestly fun to watch. But now i feel like every religious mf on here left. There are some christians like myself but no beef goin on like catholic vs protestant. I feel like the muslims on here left too and even the atheists are too scared to post on their faith.
LETS BRING BACK RELIGIOUS DEBATES
FUCK ATHEISM, FUCK ISLAM, SUBMIT TO ROME INCEL

Indeed

 

[ltn gooner]

So whats her age according to you

Idrk but def grown, as child marrige isn't found anywhere other in the old Testament.

 

[ltn gooner]

I would actually like to argue that religious mfs didn't left, but they have resigned from their faith.(stopped being religious)
When your this deep into bp, You slowly start to lack hope, as a person who was once an agnostic atheist i get it.

I would argue the opposite. If you're really religious your slowly leave bp Imo

 

[ocdcel]

I would argue the opposite. If you're really religious your slowly leave bp Imo

both are true tbh, it could go either way.

 

[jl25]

Why ?

apperently god made us perfect in every single way so looksmaxing as a christian is wrong

 

[Centurion_Hunter]

I remember like a year+ ago there were some debates here and there and it was honestly fun to watch. But now i feel like every religious mf on here left. There are some christians like myself but no beef goin on like catholic vs protestant. I feel like the muslims on here left too and even the atheists are too scared to post on their faith.
LETS BRING BACK RELIGIOUS DEBATES
FUCK ATHEISM, FUCK ISLAM, SUBMIT TO ROME INCEL

Submit to Constantinopole heretic

 

[ltn gooner]

Submit to Constantinopole heretic

You mean Istanbul, what was taken by the turks centuries ago

 

[ltn gooner]

apperently god made us perfect in every single way so looksmaxing as a christian is wrong

There is nothing wrong with trying to improve yourself