Why doesn't God mention his name in the Quran

[TsarTsar444]

From alot of attacks on the Quran which christians and atheists make, this is maybe in my top 5 where I can't act the contrarian role with a convincing argument at all.

To not overcomplicate much, the gist of this flaw is how the Quran are direct words of God, in which he extensively referrs to himself all the time and every single passage is God talking. And in not one of them he mentions his name (YAHWEH). To understand why the problem arises is that God says his name numerous time all over the OT whenever he speaks directly to the believers.

My best contrarian response possible would be: "there is no rule saying that God had to say his name, this doesn't somehow invalidate the Quran whatsoever".

There come some pretty bad flaws with this lazy argument of mine though, and its the name of multiple prophets in the Quran. No need to start naming them, but in a nutshell the etymology of their names is directly dependent from gods name YAHWEH and they are mentioned dozens of time in the Quran. Second problem is how Allah has 99 names that he refers to himself multiple times in the Quran, but strangely not his primal name and from where half the prophets got their name from. And the third problem is how this could be used to hurt Qurans credibility if you learn the most likely secular theological reason of why he doesn't say his name. The jews by the time of the Prophet in the 7th century have long stopped ever using YAHWEH when they would talk or pray to God, this came about a change in rabbinic tradition and culture where it was associated as fearful and strongly disrespectful to call the Most High by his direct name, so the only time they would think of his name was when reading the Torah in their heads. This secular theory would indicate how the author of the Quran wasn't aware of YAHWEH as THE name of God because there was nobody to hear it from.

 

[TsarTsar444]

@SecularIslamist @Chadelite

 

[OGJBSLAYER]

Didn't read tbh

Don't waste your time on this 7th century larp

 

[TsarTsar444]

Didn't read tbh

Don't waste your time on this 7th century larp

Tbh I've been just binging theology like a manic for hours today cause nothing better to do

 

[Deleted member 39140]

You had premarital sex with your gf shut up, what kind of Muslim are you

 

[Pikabro]

You should probably try and ask a knowledgeable person. All you’ll get here is islamophobic hindus etc and muslim laymen

 

[OGJBSLAYER]

Tbh I've been just binging theology like a manic for hours today cause nothing better to do

If you wanna attack Islam, this is enough

Exploring the various sources from which the Quran plagiarized stories​

Exploring the various sources from which the Quran plagiarized stories

Contents Each dot ( Total 33) represents an instance of plagiarism. Muslims are welcome to debate and discuss each point Allegations Recorded in the Quran Possible Channels and Circulation of Stories Zaid’s religious principles adopted by Muhammad Muslim Views Flood waters boiled from an...

looksmax.org

For more details, just download

The Quran and the Bible by Gabriel Said Reynold, an Islamic professor at Nortre Dame

 

[TsarTsar444]

You had premarital sex with your gf shut up, what kind of Muslim are you

I was agnostic back then

 

[TsarTsar444]

You should probably try and ask a knowledgeable person. All you’ll get here is islamophobic hindus etc and muslim laymen

This is the cloest place i could find some mysterious greycel who gives a good answer

 

[vanillaicecream]

What makes you grant the premise that the book was in any way written or inspired by a god??

 

[TsarTsar444]

What makes you grant the premise that the book was in any way written or inspired by a god??

The impossibility of nobodies from obscure desert dunes brutally destroying the top 2 nations on the earth at that time. Btw this is just one of a few arguments for me, just cba to write an essay

 

[SecularIslamist]

If you wanna attack Islam, this is enough

Exploring the various sources from which the Quran plagiarized stories​

Exploring the various sources from which the Quran plagiarized stories

Contents Each dot ( Total 33) represents an instance of plagiarism. Muslims are welcome to debate and discuss each point Allegations Recorded in the Quran Possible Channels and Circulation of Stories Zaid’s religious principles adopted by Muhammad Muslim Views Flood waters boiled from an...

looksmax.org

For more details, just download

The Quran and the Bible by Gabriel Said Reynold, an Islamic professor at Nortre Dame

Historical revisionism typical of orientalist academics.

The basic liberal premise is let's not believe what people have said over centuries and millenia because it could be wrong JFL. Ironically come up with even worse unbelievable theories. This is what secular progressives do which is where they find their biggest fans.

I was agnostic back then

Same here. Not officially at least.

 

[vanillaicecream]

The impossibility of nobodies from obscure desert dunes brutally destroying the top 2 nations on the earth at that time. Btw this is just one of a few arguments for me, just cba to write an essay

Ok, you think that is impressive and unlikely, does the fact that a book that tells such story has the narrative of a specific god behind it validate that such god exists and that the book was put together by him? Does one piece of information of any given nature that's part of a whole collection of premises and narratives automatically validate it all?

 

[SecularIslamist]

Ok, you think that is impressive and unlikely, does the fact that a book that tells such story has the narrative of a specific god behind it validate that such god exists and that the book was put together by him? Does one piece of information of any given nature that's part of a whole collection of premises and narratives automatically validate it all?

State of modern society

 

[Pikabro]

Ok, you think that is impressive and unlikely, does the fact that a book that tells such story has the narrative of a specific god behind it validate that such god exists and that the book was put together by him? Does one piece of information of any given nature that's part of a whole collection of premises and narratives automatically validate it all?

Isn’t the point that the desert nobodies were basically willed into victory by God?

Another point is that the book despite being incredibly well written was transcribed from the words an illiterate man salallahu wa alayhi wa salaam. Which should be impossible

 

[vanillaicecream]

View attachment 2401675

State of modern society

Why the fuck should I care about mantras and beautiful words uttered by people of purported superior IQ??? Your belief is still stupid and has zero empirical and objectively verifiable demonstrations from eternal reality, would you care to show how the line of argument I just put forth is flawed instead of resorting to meaningless mockery? I'll wait.

 

[SecularIslamist]

Why the fuck should I care about mantras and beautiful words uttered by people of purported superior IQ??? Your belief is still stupid and has zero empirical and objectively verifiable demonstrations from eternal reality, would you care to show how the line of argument I just put forth is flawed instead of resorting to meaningless mockery? I'll wait.

 

[vanillaicecream]

Isn’t the point that the desert nobodies were basically willed into victory by God?

Another point is that the book despite being incredibly well written was transcribed from the words an illiterate man salallahu wa alayhi wa salaam. Which should be impossible

No pal, they just had a belief in this god a and then something happened in their favor, does me asking for something to the great benevolent purple elf that I believe in and then having it granted validate the great benevolent purple elf? I'm not even impressed by the nature of that occurence, technically it doesnt take any intervention from a supernatural being for that to happen, as unlikely as it is it still falls into the real of the natural world. Please show me "allah" curing an amputee, I'll wait.

 

[TsarTsar444]

Ok, you think that is impressive and unlikely, does the fact that a book that tells such story has the narrative of a specific god behind it validate that such god exists and that the book was put together by him? Does one piece of information of any given nature that's part of a whole collection of premises and narratives automatically validate it all?

If you mean the book itself validating being from Allah himself then i would say no, but Islam believes in one creator, same like Judaism does, and various greek philosophical schools did with the same conclusion. There aren't for example thousands of gods maybe being true, like atheists would say, because they equal some extremely chimpanzee primitive totem spirit diety of potatoes which is a copy cat of the thousands animist/pagan dieties all over the world, to the extreme complexity and simpleness, as well as depth of "the one", that always ended up being the conclusion of late stage advanced societies including the greeks, persians and hindu philosophers. So if we are going to play the Occam's razor here, for me the closest religions to the truth would be undoubtedly by order: Islam, Gnostic Christianity and Buddhism

 

[vanillaicecream]

View attachment 2401688

So you got nothing?? Thanks for backing up what I said

 

[Pendejo]

I was agnostic back then

Same here. Not officially at least.

How did you guys find your faith?

 

[thenewhebbe]

How did you guys find your faith?

They both grow up in muslim family and muslim friends so cultural upbringing

 

[SecularIslamist]

So you got nothing?? Thanks for backing up what I said

 

[Pendejo]

They both grow up in muslim family and muslim friends so cultural upbringing

But they said they were agnostic so something must have changed for them to convert.

 

[SecularIslamist]

How did you guys find your faith?

They both grow up in muslim family and muslim friends so cultural upbringing

Yes, but according to Islam everyone has an innate disposition to religion called 'fitrah' so technically everyone is 'born Muslim' but become something else through upbringing. Those born in Muslim communities and backgrounds retain and grow from that fitrah - or should do so.

That being said so called 'born-Muslims' can go through religious experiences that increase their faith and psychologically change them more than those who convert.

 

[TsarTsar444]

How did you guys find your faith?

I went from agnostic atheist (thats 99% of atheist on earth) to agnostic theist/deist/pantheist. I believe in there being some intelegent being who set up the machinery of the universe like a clockmaker designing his clock and letting the arrows run its course. But Islam is by far the closest of the mainstream religions to my beliefs because of its most pure monotheism and description of God

 

[thenewhebbe]

I went from agnostic atheist (thats 99% of atheist on earth) to agnostic theist/deist/pantheist. I believe in there being some intelegent being who set up the machinery of the universe like a clockmaker designing his clock and letting the arrows run its course. But Islam is by far the closest of the mainstream religions to my beliefs because of its most pure monotheism and description of God

So you wasn't raised in a muslim household and in a muslim country/school

 

[TsarTsar444]

So you wasn't raised in a muslim household and in a muslim country/school

Yes i was, i started reading on atheism in highschool from the internet and at least in my heart i become agnostix atheist for the next like 3 years, the thing is im still agnostic just my scale is know leaning more to there being a God but I can't prove it without empirical objective evidence so im not a gnostic believer

 

[vanillaicecream]

View attachment 2401707

So you're telling me you don't care for truth and facts as someone that thinks that a belief system that reflects the values and tenets of a specific culture from a specific period in time is the ultimate truth of our whole existence? You're telling me you dont care for truth and facts as someone that subscribes to a belief system because he happened to be born in a place where it's propagated? Wow, this has got to be one of the most shocking things I've seen in a while.

 

[Deleted member 32846]

From alot of attacks on the Quran which christians and atheists make, this is maybe in my top 5 where I can't act the contrarian role with a convincing argument at all.

To not overcomplicate much, the gist of this flaw is how the Quran are direct words of God, in which he extensively referrs to himself all the time and every single passage is God talking. And in not one of them he mentions his name (YAHWEH). To understand why the problem arises is that God says his name numerous time all over the OT whenever he speaks directly to the believers.

My best contrarian response possible would be: "there is no rule saying that God had to say his name, this doesn't somehow invalidate the Quran whatsoever".

There come some pretty bad flaws with this lazy argument of mine though, and its the name of multiple prophets in the Quran. No need to start naming them, but in a nutshell the etymology of their names is directly dependent from gods name YAHWEH and they are mentioned dozens of time in the Quran. Second problem is how Allah has 99 names that he refers to himself multiple times in the Quran, but strangely not his primal name and from where half the prophets got their name from. And the third problem is how this could be used to hurt Qurans credibility if you learn the most likely secular theological reason of why he doesn't say his name. The jews by the time of the Prophet in the 7th century have long stopped ever using YAHWEH when they would talk or pray to God, this came about a change in rabbinic tradition and culture where it was associated as fearful and strongly disrespectful to call the Most High by his direct name, so the only time they would think of his name was when reading the Torah in their heads. This secular theory would indicate how the author of the Quran wasn't aware of YAHWEH as THE name of God because there was nobody to hear it from.

Dont waste your time with theology tbh, as someone who wasted months knowing how to win every argument presented by every religion it was a waste of time shits literally all just larps from the early centuries and literal live action roleplayers, like these guys were thinking they could move mountains and shit with their hands bro its literal live action roleplay

 

[TsarTsar444]

Dont waste your time with theology tbh, as someone who wasted months knowing how to win every argument presented by every religion it was a waste of time shits literally all just larps from the early centuries and literal live action roleplayers, like these guys were thinking they could move mountains and shit with their hands bro its literal live action roleplay

Yeah i know but theology debates are surprisingly a good brain massage, always like testing bow believers convince themselves in what their own arguments are used for in the inquiry

 

[RAITEIII]

Yes, but according to Islam everyone has an innate disposition to religion called 'fitrah' so technically everyone is 'born Muslim' but become something else through upbringing. Those born in Muslim communities and backgrounds retain and grow from that fitrah - or should do so.

That being said so called 'born-Muslims' can go through religious experiences that increase their faith and psychologically change them more than those who convert.

It has been speculated that there are parts of the brain or circuits that make you prone to believe in God or seek this "connection", as a sense of belonging and protection. The brain naturally comes with many instincts, as for example the need to belong and be part of society and interactions with other humans for emotional feedback.

This phenomenom could be presented by any religion as a statement that everybody is naturally born muslim/Christian/Buddhist, but in reality it's a biological process like any other, and not meant to be used to sustain religion.

 

[flippasav]

God is god, not a person unlike this whole ‘jesus became god’ thing that christians believe

 

[OGJBSLAYER]

Historical revisionism typical of orientalist academics.

The basic liberal premise is let's not believe what people have said over centuries and millenia because it could be wrong JFL. Ironically come up with even worse unbelievable theories. This is what secular progressives do which is where they find their biggest fans.

Jfl

Historical Critical Scholarship is based on methodological naturalism. Which means you try to understand the historicity of a text or an event without invoking supernatural explanations.

For eg, instead of debating whether Muhammad received the revelation or not ( a topic outside our domain of discourse ) we just look at the Quran and locate its sources in late antiquity. We basically study all the historical circumstances which shaped the Quran, from its inception to canonization.

Christians throughout the centuries have believed in the resurrection of Jesus and that he thought he was God. Should we accept this traditional belief on face value ?

No...

Muslims love to use Historical Critical Scholarship when they argue against Christians, but when it comes to their own religion, all of a sudden the HCM doesn't matter... It's just a silly orientalist occupation not worth the bother. Rejecting HCM is the most blue pilled move l can fathom.

 

[SecularIslamist]

Jfl

Historical Critical Scholarship is based on methodological naturalism. Which means you try to understand the historicity of a text or an event without invoking supernatural explanations.

For eg, instead of debating whether Muhammad received the revelation or not ( a topic outside our domain of discourse ) we just look at the Quran and locate its sources in late antiquity. We basically study all the historical circumstances which shaped the Quran, from its inception to canonization.

Christians throughout the centuries have believed in the resurrection of Jesus and that he thought he was God. Should we accept this traditional belief on face value ?

No...

Muslims love to use Historical Critical Scholarship when they argue against Christians, but when it comes to their own religion, all of a sudden the HCM doesn't matter... It's just a silly orientalist occupation not worth the bother. Rejecting HCM is the most blue pilled move l can fathom.

Bro even these revisionist school academics have changed stripes and acknowledged their own work were nothing but pie in the sky theories i.e. Patricia Crone Hagarism. Even other orientalists reject the works of orientalist.

Keep coping. Nice premise to work off but you end up opening a can of worms and contradicting yourself.

 

[Aladin]

The Quran is from Satan turn to Christ.

 

[Pikabro]

The Quran is from Satan turn to Christ.

Which of the 100000 different sects of christ.

 

[Gengar]

What a lousy argument. Atheists and anti-Islam cucks have been trying to "debunk " the Qur'an/Islam and have failed to do so for 1400 years, time and time again.

The purpose of the Qur'an is to spread God's message. Therefore, God has no obligation to state His preferred name.

Furthermore, there are 124.000 prophets in total, but only a handful are named in the Qur'an. That's not to say the work of the 123.000+ prophets was irrelevant. No, it just doesn't matter matter what their names were, because they did what the ones who are mentioned did: spreading the word of God. Their reward lies with God.

@emeraldglass What do you think?

 

[flippasav]

Historical revisionism typical of orientalist academics.

The basic liberal premise is let's not believe what people have said over centuries and millenia because it could be wrong JFL. Ironically come up with even worse unbelievable theories. This is what secular progressives do which is where they find their biggest fans.

Same here. Not officially at least.

Yo secualrislamist do you sin?

 

[Gengar]

Yo secualrislamist do you sin?

Everyone sins. The Qur'an also states that mankind is faulty and therefore prone to sins. "B-b-but why would God punish us for it then?!" Well, you get to make a choice whether or not you sin or not. No one sins against their will. Furthermore, if you repent, there is a chance you will be forgiven, so not all hope is lost. However, many misguided muzzies think once they repent, they are 100% forgiven, when that knowledge is only with God, so by saying "I have already been forgiven because I repented" it means they are pretending to know the hidden knowledge that only God possesses, which in and of itself is a form of shirk. JFL at how retarded muzzies can be.

 

[Gengar]

Everyone sins. The Qur'an also states that mankind is faulty and therefore prone to sins. "B-b-but why would God punish us for it then?!" Well, you get to make a choice whether or not you sin or not. No one sins against their will. Furthermore, if you repent, there is a chance you will be forgiven, so not all hope is lost. However, many misguided muzzies think once they repent, they are 100% forgiven, when that knowledge is only with God, so by saying "I have already been forgiven because I repented" it means they are pretending to know the hidden knowledge that only God possesses, which in and of itself is a form of shirk. JFL at how retarded muzzies can be.

@Emerald Thoughts bhai?

 

[Gengar]

Everyone sins. The Qur'an also states that mankind is faulty and therefore prone to sins. "B-b-but why would God punish us for it then?!" Well, you get to make a choice whether or not you sin or not. No one sins against their will. Furthermore, if you repent, there is a chance you will be forgiven, so not all hope is lost. However, many misguided muzzies think once they repent, they are 100% forgiven, when that knowledge is only with God, so by saying "I have already been forgiven because I repented" it means they are pretending to know the hidden knowledge that only God possesses, which in and of itself is a form of shirk. JFL at how retarded muzzies can be.

@Emerald Thoughts bhai?

@emeraldglass

Over for my IQ. I tagged someone else.

 

[TsarTsar444]

What a lousy argument. Atheists and anti-Islam cucks have been trying to "debunk " the Qur'an/Islam and have failed to do so for 1400 years, time and time again.

The purpose of the Qur'an is to spread God's message. Therefore, God has no obligation to state His preferred name.

Furthermore, there are 124.000 prophets in total, but only a handful are named in the Qur'an. That's not to say the work of the 123.000+ prophets was irrelevant. No, it just doesn't matter matter what their names were, because they did what the ones who are mentioned did: spreading the word of God. Their reward lies with God.

@emeraldglass What do you think?

Lol i said that already as my contrarian arguing point, its the only one possible tho tbh. But its not strong. Like come on brocel, its the final book, when he spoke to Moses he said his name. God just mysteriously having a completly changed personality between books makes no sense for Omnipresence and Omnipotence.
My thread is kinda lazy actually, i didn't write all the implications about this. For example if Muhammed knew name of God, and he told the Jews about it, it would make them drop their jaws in shock and convert all to Islam. Gods name was completely lost in memory except for the high jewish priests in Jerusalem, nobody else knew it. Muhammed would have not been able to know it

 

[TsarTsar444]

What a lousy argument. Atheists and anti-Islam cucks have been trying to "debunk " the Qur'an/Islam and have failed to do so for 1400 years, time and time again.

The purpose of the Qur'an is to spread God's message. Therefore, God has no obligation to state His preferred name.

Furthermore, there are 124.000 prophets in total, but only a handful are named in the Qur'an. That's not to say the work of the 123.000+ prophets was irrelevant. No, it just doesn't matter matter what their names were, because they did what the ones who are mentioned did: spreading the word of God. Their reward lies with God.

@emeraldglass What do you think?

120k prophets is weak hadith, it was a few thousands tho from a stronger hadith

 

[Pikabro]

Lol i said that already as my contrarian arguing point, its the only one possible tho tbh. But its not strong. Like come on brocel, its the final book, when he spoke to Moses he said his name. God just mysteriously having a completly changed personality between books makes no sense for Omnipresence and Omnipotence.
My thread is kinda lazy actually, i didn't write all the implications about this. For example if Muhammed knew name of God, and he told the Jews about it, it would make them drop their jaws in shock and convert all to Islam. Gods name was completely lost in memory except for the high jewish priests in Jerusalem, nobody else knew it. Muhammed would have not been able to know it

This is why you need to go to a learned scholar. None of us laymen muslims are high IQ or knowledgable enough for this.

 

[Mewton]

Incoming 10 - 20 page thread

 

[SecularIslamist]

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Incoming 10 - 20 page thread



View attachment 2411295View attachment 2411296View attachment 2411299View attachment 2411301

I need to change my username always get dragged into these shitty discussions.

I post Muslim-related content but can't be bothered to discuss Islamic theology only Islamic copemaxxing . @TsarTsar444 is okay but threads like this is just going to attract retards.

 

[Psychophilly]

The concept of name is that it's given by parent or creator. you don't pick a name for yourself. imagine god is the only being at the beginning of time, who is there to name him/it?

additionally, i think there is a direct reference to Hoo in Quran which is the true name of god.

 

[Gengar]

Lol i said that already as my contrarian arguing point, its the only one possible tho tbh. But its not strong. Like common brocel, its the final book, when he spoke to Moses he said his name. God just mysteriously having a completly changed personality between books makes no sense for Omnipresence and Omnipotence.
My thread is kinda lazy actually, i didn't write all the implications about this. For example if Muhammed knew name of God, and he told the Jews about it, it would make them drop their jaws in shock and convert all to Islam. Gods name was completely lost in memory except for the high jewish priests in Jerusalem, nobody else knew it. Muhammed would have not been able to know it

I wasn't saying you were using a lousy argument. I was saying "Why doesn't God use his own name? Hehe, checkmate, muzzies!" is a lame/lousy argument.

By the way, the Bible isn't on the same level as the Qur'an. You can't compare the two if that's what you're doing. The Bible was re-written by mankind so many times, it's practically the word of man instead of the word of God. I mean.. why would God speak of whores being obsessed with horse-dicks and mega cum volumes? LOL. Doesn't make sense.

Also, there are stories in the Qur'an where the prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) did narrate stories only the Jews knew. But that wasn't enough for people to revert to Islam. Some did revert, but most didn't. Because some people will always be kafirs, no matter what, even if you present them with the truth (which is what the prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) did). That is also talked about in the Qur'an.. "God leads whoever He wills."

It was not the duty of the prophets to make people revert to Islam. Therefore they never forced people to become Islamic. Instead, they spread the word of God, hoping the people would listen. Some did, most didn't. That's why nowadays there are 1.8 - 2 billion muzzies out of a population of 8 billion.

Feel free to correct me if I said something wrong. @emeraldglass Or just share your two cents.

 

[TsarTsar444]

Everyone sins. The Qur'an also states that mankind is faulty and therefore prone to sins. "B-b-but why would God punish us for it then?!" Well, you get to make a choice whether or not you sin or not. No one sins against their will. Furthermore, if you repent, there is a chance you will be forgiven, so not all hope is lost. However, many misguided muzzies think once they repent, they are 100% forgiven, when that knowledge is only with God, so by saying "I have already been forgiven because I repented" it means they are pretending to know the hidden knowledge that only God possesses, which in and of itself is a form of shirk. JFL at how retarded muzzies can be.

The free will vs destiny 1400 dillema is brutal for me.