Why I think a God might exist (reasons & explanations)

[Brava]

Why God exists, I will keep this short and sweet for the “dnr” people

And just for prefaces I want people to understand that im not really religious, im just tired of seeing the stubbornness around religion and want to bring up some points that it might actually exist. In the future I will make a post for my beliefs against God.

1. The Universe Had to have had a beggining

I think that the belief of the big bang is very illogical, like what are the odds that all stuff just magically comes all together and… boom! The world is created. There must have been something to be there and control that whole scenario

1. Life exists on very specific conditions

Taking literally anything in this world like a penguin for example, there are so many complex bacteria, cells, muscles, etc that make a penguin a penguin. Having that be created from one single Boom is very questionable.

1. The Moral Argument

Many people feel some things are objectively right or wrong (like hurting innocent people).
If objective morality exists, some argue it must come from a moral lawgiver.
That lawgiver would be something like a God.

1. Personal Experiences

Many people have had miracles happen, stuff that genuinely feels unreal has happened to people, believe it or not it has happened. And the chances of it happening are very slim, but what if these miracles are not by chance but are made by God?

1. Backing up Christianity to support my claim

Most historians, even non-Christian ones, agree that Jesus existed, was crucified, and that his followers believed they saw him alive again. Thousands of people also believed that Jesus resurrected, and because of it started to worship him, because of their worship thousands of people were tortured or killed. There is many evidence on the killings/torture of these people. Why would these people go as far as death in their beliefs if the whole resurrection was fake?

1. People find purpose in religion. People’s lives get saved from religion

Many testimonies out there where peoples lives truly change for the ultimate better, people find their life purpose, people change their morals for the better, people change as a person and act more ethically and respectfully. Surely there can't be a pure divine behind this that makes this happen?

1. Many of the smartest people and the biggest philosophers believed in God

Philosophers that believed in God: Plato, Aristotle, Thomas Aquinas, Augustine of Hippo

Scientists that believed in God: Isaac Newton, Galileo Galilei, Galileo Galilei, Gregor Mendel, Nikola Tesla

If those people found a reason to believe in God, why can't you?

1. Religion has a divine kind of feeling to it.

This is only experienced when you actually are in a religion. Being in the christian circle for a long time I have heard many testimonies on how people got saved or saw demons. This can go the same with satanism, if the demons are truly real then, there must be opposite, something like a God (doesn't matter whether you think the God is kind or evil, it's still a God)

Sources:
.
https://www.freethinkingministries.com/post/my-5-favorite-arguments-for-god-s-existence
https://faculty.som.yale.edu/jameschoi/whychrist/
https://18forty.org/articles/3-arguments-for-gods-existence/





Thank you for reading this Thread


@Jesus_ist_König
@DrMd

 

[Banned User]

No way nigga said short and sweet then dropped the library of alexandria itself in one thread

 

[Tenres]

None really pass but W effort bro

 

[littestjeff1]

written by ai

 

[134applesauce456]

and honestly?--- that's gpt generation

 

[Algernon]

i agree but these are kind of basic arguments

 

[Brava]

and honestly--- that's gpt generation

yea i used it for moral argument

 

[DrMd]

no tag? back to israel you go

 

[Brava]

i agree but these are kind of basic arguments

well not really because some of them take time and experience to understand and all of these can all be looked at from many persepctives so i wouldnt call them "basic"

 

[Brava]

no tag? back to israel you go

didnt know you were religous?

 

[Brava]

None really pass but W effort bro

how come?

ill gladly debate anything i listed

 

[edcel]

Reddit as a source?

 

[Tenres]

i agree but these are kind of basic arguments

The fine tuning argument and Kalam are the best arguments for God, basic or not.

 

[Brava]

Reddit as a source?

look at what i used it for tho?

the reddits themselves use sources and are written really good. I dont see it as a problem

if you disagree ill gladly debate you

 

[Brava]

The fine tuning argument and Kalam are the best arguments for God, basic or not.

basically my moral argument

 

[autistic_tendencies]

You can tap into infinite intelligence by unblocking your pineal gland

Were just disconnected from source

 

[Algernon]

The fine tuning argument and Kalam are the best arguments for God, basic or not.

idk the other but fine tuning is a bad argument

if we had bad conditions then we wouldn't be alive

if we weren't alive our consciousness wouldn't process

so for us to be conscious we have to be in a fine tuned world, otherwise we'd already be dead

that explains fine-tuning argument without using God, to me best argument is Pascals Wager

 

[Tenres]

how come?

ill gladly debate anything i listed

There's no necessity in any modal scope for a beginning of the universe, or for the beginning to have a cause. But I would be willing to talk about any reasoning you have.

The fine tuning argument (your second one) is perfectly explainable by the many worlds interpretation of schrodinger's equation, there are more possible universes we could be in then the probability expressed as 1/x of being in a universe with conditions conducive to life. Then if we understood it's likely to have life, then whatever world with conscious life will be observed by said life. Also, I think it relies on some assumption of metaphysical significance of human life. Extremely improbable things happen all the time in the universe.

God doesn't objectify morality. Either morality is seperate from God and unchangeable, limiting God's power and also introducing another unexplainable phenomenon in your theory, or morality is just dependent on God's mind hence being subjective.

 

[DrMd]

@asdvek ur opinion would be interesting

 

[Brava]

idk the other but fine tuning is a bad argument

if we had bad conditions then we wouldn't be alive

if we weren't alive our consciousness wouldn't process

so for us to be conscious we have to be in a fine tuned world, otherwise we'd already be dead

that explains fine-tuning argument without using God, to me best argument is Pascals Wager

how do our life conditions corelate to our survivibility?

people in india live

god can set that "fine tuned world"

 

[Tenres]

idk the other but fine tuning is a bad argument

if we had bad conditions then we wouldn't be alive

if we weren't alive our consciousness wouldn't process

so for us to be conscious we have to be in a fine tuned world, otherwise we'd already be dead

that explains fine-tuning argument without using God, to me best argument is Pascals Wager

Well it's more the categorical issue of why there are observers in the first place, if we assume observers are likely to exist, then it makes sense we are observing in the only world(s) in which observers exist. But if it's simply like a 1/100,000,000,000 for observers to exist, and there's only one world, the observer bias doesn't explain why observers exist in the first place.

 

[Algernon]

how do our life conditions corelate to our survivibility?

people in india live

god can set that "fine tuned world"

if we weren't survivabke we'd be extinct is the point
and by that we wouldn't be here
so we can only be conscious in a world where we are survivable, otherwise we'd already have been dead

 

[soapbubble]

1. The Universe Had to have had a beggining

I think that the belief of the big bang is very illogical, like what are the odds that all stuff just magically comes all together and… boom! The world is created. There must have been something to be there and control that whole scenario

How does this work? The idea of God itself is illogical. If God doesn’t need a creator, why can’t the same apply to the universe?

1. Life exists on very specific conditions

Taking literally anything in this world like a penguin for example, there are so many complex bacteria, cells, muscles, etc that make a penguin a penguin. Having that be created from one single Boom is very questionable.

The existence of life itself doesn’t dictate the existence of a god. Think about it this way, if you have 50 possibilities and 1 happens to be chosen it doesn’t mean that there is something special about the one that was chosen. You value the novelty of life in your argument because it’s what we have right now. If we had some other form of life far removed from what we have now instead, you’d probably use that as proof of how specific God was in his planning instead.

1. The Moral Argument

Many people feel some things are objectively right or wrong (like hurting innocent people).
If objective morality exists, some argue it must come from a moral lawgiver.
That lawgiver would be something like a God.

Morality is a human construct. Maybe if heaven and hell actually existed you could justify the existence of an”objective morality” better, but it doesn’t. This is like humans deciding what’s right and wrong and saying their beliefs anre objectively right to justify a god.

1. Personal Experiences

Many people have had miracles happen, stuff that genuinely feels unreal has happened to people, believe it or not it has happened. And the chances of it happening are very slim, but what if these miracles are not by chance but are made by God?

There are 8 billion people on Earth all doing different things, creating, arguing, moving. The weather and even the currents are constantly changing. JFL obviously there will be some rare things happening every once in a while.

1. Backing up Christianity to support my claim

Most historians, even non-Christian ones, agree that Jesus existed, was crucified, and that his followers believed they saw him alive again. Thousands of people also believed that Jesus resurrected, and because of it started to worship him, because of their worship thousands of people were tortured or killed. There is many evidence on the killings/torture of these people. Why would these people go as far as death in their beliefs if the whole resurrection was fake?

Say the same thing about any other religion. People being killed or tortured for their beliefs doesn’t prove the validity of their beliefs. Jesus’s resurrection is the main thing to prove here. You’re not actually proving anything by saying “muh historians said so, so it must be true.”

1. People find purpose in religion. People’s lives get saved from religion

Many testimonies out there where peoples lives truly change for the ultimate better, people find their life purpose, people change their morals for the better, people change as a person and act more ethically and respectfully. Surely there can't be a pure divine behind this that makes this happen?

That’s belief of a god and the relevant principles. Not divine intervention itself.

1. Many of the smartest people and the biggest philosophers believed in God

Philosophers that believed in God: Plato, Aristotle, Thomas Aquinas, Augustine of Hippo

Scientists that believed in God: Isaac Newton, Galileo Galilei, Galileo Galilei, Gregor Mendel, Nikola Tesla

If those people found a reason to believe in God, why can't you?

Appeal to authority. Not even an argument, and “smart people” like scientists and philosophers have been wrong before…

1. Religion has a divine kind of feeling to it.

This is only experienced when you actually are in a religion. Being in the christian circle for a long time I have heard many testimonies on how people got saved or saw demons. This can go the same with satanism, if the demons are truly real then, there must be opposite, something like a God (doesn't matter whether you think the God is kind or evil, it's still a God)

View attachment 4803591

JFL, 0 backing to this argument whatsoever. Literally only schizo randoms in some other random country claiming to see demons and shit.

 

[Algernon]

Well it's more the categorical issue of why there are observers in the first place, if we assume observers are likely to exist, then it makes sense we are observing in the only world(s) in which observers exist. But if it's simply like a 1/100,000,000,000 for observers to exist, and there's only one world, the observer bias doesn't explain why observers exist in the first place.

thats more like why do we exist not how do we continue ti exist
i think the creation of humanity was done by god, from creation of humanity to modern day i could easily explain it by saying we wouldn't be alive otherwise
but the continued existence of humanity i think is by God protecting is
maybe i js didnt understand your argument though

 

[ragingmanlet]

None really pass but W effort bro

Jfl at you if you actually believe he wrote this

 

[Brava]

There's no necessity in any modal scope for a beginning of the universe, or for the beginning to have a cause. But I would be willing to talk about any reasoning you have.

The fine tuning argument (your second one) is perfectly explainable by the many worlds interpretation of schrodinger's equation, there are more possible universes we could be in then the probability expressed as 1/x of being in a universe with conditions conducive to life. Then if we understood it's likely to have life, then whatever world with conscious life will be observed by said life. Also, I think it relies on some assumption of metaphysical significance of human life. Extremely improbable things happen all the time in the universe.

God doesn't objectify morality. Either morality is seperate from God and unchangeable, limiting God's power and also introducing another unexplainable phenomenon in your theory, or morality is just dependent on God's mind hence being subjective.

I think you brought up a good point

the thing is that God isnt limited to just being the christian god or the islamic god

god could deadass just be a bum that spectates us from above that we wouldnt know about. meaning that morality can be subjective and objective since we dont know the full identity of god

this argument only assumes two points. morality can very well be grounded in gods nature (not seperate, not random). Morality could just equal as gods nature, meaning that god is the standard and he sets it, whether its good or bad.

my point isnt to prove that god is good and real. i just want to prove that there is a god and what he is, is unkown

 

[Brava]

Jfl at you if you actually believe he wrote this

why do people not believe i wrote this i dont get it?

i admitted to using ai but only for 1 argument ?

this shit has been sitting in google docs for a solid month

 

[Tenres]

thats more like why do we exist not how do we continue ti exist
i think the creation of humanity was done by god, from creation of humanity to modern day i could easily explain it by saying we wouldn't be alive otherwise
but the continued existence of humanity i think is by God protecting is
maybe i js didnt understand your argument though

Yeah, the hypothetical is to say 'if observer exist, then those observers will exist in a possible world in which observers can exist' which is tautologically true, but the categorical is why conscious life would exist in the first place.

 

[Tenres]

I think you brought up a good point

the thing is that God isnt limited to just being the christian god or the islamic god

god could deadass just be a bum that spectates us from above that we wouldnt know about. meaning that morality can be subjective and objective since we dont know the full identity of god

this argument only assumes two points. morality can very well be grounded in gods nature (not seperate, not random). Morality could just equal as gods nature, meaning that god is the standard and he sets it, whether its good or bad.

my point isnt to prove that god is good and real. i just want to prove that there is a god and what he is, is unkown

Yeah I get what you're saying, I'm not saying God's morality is impossible to explain, just that it would seemingly still be subjective because it's mind-dependent. You can still argue that well, God knows everything, so his mind is still superior and should be appealed to. still subjective and so theres still no universally compelling force or law that forces anyone to act in a moral way.

Edit: I do think religion and God have a more stable morality for the reason I listed and obviously the afterlife aspect which you will be judged.

 

[soapbubble]

how do our life conditions corelate to our survivibility?

people in india live

god can set that "fine tuned world"

if we weren't survivabke we'd be extinct is the point
and by that we wouldn't be here
so we can only be conscious in a world where we are survivable, otherwise we'd already have been dead

Other forms of life could have existed in conditions outside of the ones us humans require though. Like even if Earth was uninhabitable for humans it could’ve been for some other species that developed over time. We think of humans and other existing species as special because of our survivability on Earth, not the other way around.

 

[Algernon]

Other forms of life could have existed in conditions outside of the ones us humans require though. Like even if Earth was uninhabitable for humans it could’ve been for some other species that developed over time. We think of humans and other existing species as special because of our survivability on Earth, not the other way around.

and that other species would have the exact same thoughts as us

its relative to the condition, they would think everythings fine tuned to them

 

[Brava]

How does this work? The idea of God itself is illogical. If God doesn’t need a creator, why can’t the same apply to the universe?

thats a good point not gonna lie. but this point is mostly talking about stuff that BEGIN to exist. like the universe it began to exist at one point, god never began existing, he "always was and awlays will be" unfortunately no evedince, but lets say if god is 100% real everyone knows he is real, i still doubt we would have evedince for god always existing because its something that is only understandable to the divine and not us humans.

The existence of life itself doesn’t dictate the existence of a god. Think about it this way, if you have 50 possibilities and 1 happens to be chosen it doesn’t mean that there is something special about the one that was chosen. You value the novelty of life in your argument because it’s what we have right now. If we had some other form of life far removed from what we have now instead, you’d probably use that as proof of how specific God was in his planning instead.

this is very bias towards the anthropic effect. just because something was unlikely to happen dosent mean it was designed. the thing is, is that even the slighest change in our universe would cause major changes, someone couldve been behind it all to control it all through.

Morality is a human construct. Maybe if heaven and hell actually existed you could justify the existence of an”objective morality” better, but it doesn’t. This is like humans deciding what’s right and wrong and saying their beliefs anre objectively right to justify a god.

if morality is purely constructed then there is no objective right or wrong, only opinions and social agreements. someone had to set the standards. Objective morality doesn’t depend on rewards/punishments, It depends on whether moral truths exist independently of us.

There are 8 billion people on Earth all doing different things, creating, arguing, moving. The weather and even the currents are constantly changing. JFL obviously there will be some rare things happening every once in a while.

I acctually will agree with you, miracles are rare, if they were more often then id disagree

Say the same thing about any other religion. People being killed or tortured for their beliefs doesn’t prove the validity of their beliefs. Jesus’s resurrection is the main thing to prove here. You’re not actually proving anything by saying “muh historians said so, so it must be true.”

wait so youll beleive in philosophers being alive but jesus its a no? and no religion was persecuted as much as christianity. maybe if the majority of the persecutions happened like 3,000 years later then sure, but they happened right after jesus's resurrection, why were people willing to die for it, either there were truly some spritiual powers or they are dumb

That’s belief of a god and the relevant principles. Not divine intervention itself.

not my point, being in the christian sphere I would see many people have their lives changed after being drug addicts and doing not good stuff, them finding god and having their lives changed, there must be something going on there. Ive talked to people that are devoted christians and they would tell me how fufilled their live feels (obviously i can tbe 100% sure i dont know everythign what people do)

Appeal to authority. Not even an argument, and “smart people” like scientists and philosophers have been wrong before…

yes this is true, but ig you can look at it as smart people seeing a truth in god, so if really smart people can why cant you

JFL, 0 backing to this argument whatsoever. Literally only schizo randoms in some other random country claiming to see demons and shit.

I think something that atheists or agnostic people dont realize is that religion is faith. You need to have faith and believe in it, so some things will be not understandable for us humans, so we just need faith, so god might be testing the people who can be faithful to him to reward ( but i think its kinda bs) So faith is important, being ignorant to faith is really stubborn

 

[Brava]

Other forms of life could have existed in conditions outside of the ones us humans require though. Like even if Earth was uninhabitable for humans it could’ve been for some other species that developed over time. We think of humans and other existing species as special because of our survivability on Earth, not the other way around.

but ig the humans are superior and the chosen species

 

[Brava]

No way nigga said short and sweet then dropped the library of alexandria itself in one thread

have you seen the lenght of some of this peoples threads????

its like a whole book

but i have nothing but respect for it

 

[alurmo]

1. The Universe Had to have had a beggining

I think that the belief of the big bang is very illogical, like what are the odds that all stuff just magically comes all together and… boom! The world is created. There must have been something to be there and control that whole scenario

if the universe had a start it should thus have a end? shouldnt we alreayd have passed that end state, with the amount of time thats passed of the earth and whatnot, so then the world already should be a infinite thing of flux, which then makes time infinite but then it should have a antithesis which would be energy imo, and since energy is finite in my belief, the universe is constantly repeating these finite energy processes

my main sources for this is-- WP-F.N(note- 1066;1067)

1. Life exists on very specific conditions

Taking literally anything in this world like a penguin for example, there are so many complex bacteria, cells, muscles, etc that make a penguin a penguin. Having that be created from one single Boom is very questionable.

man as a being is not stagnant, if we follow the rule of the universe constantly becoming and fluxing, that means the state of man itself is not stagnant

with ur example of a penguin, well a penguin is a penguin, he was bred under conditions formed by his enviroment and the will of his ancestors

like comparing a sheep to lions, the sheep a animal evolved to blend in and do it succesfully results in the ultimate prey, the lion a individualistic type animal who had to will to be a predator

1. The Moral Argument

Many people feel some things are objectively right or wrong (like hurting innocent people).
If objective morality exists, some argue it must come from a moral lawgiver.
That lawgiver would be something like a God.

no such thing as objectiveness if we follow the universal law i put forth in the first reply, the world is flux and everchanging, thus the truth shall change, what meant bad for the ancient greeks is a different definition then the modern version
as well as what meant good, as good came from the aristocratic classes who believed their existence in itself was 'good' so they coined it, its no different with morality, hurting innocent people is not in the law books of the aristocrats of india(brahmin script ive recently been reading which is the book of manu(law of manu)), nor was it written into the gods of ancient greece

the lawgiver to this is thus humans themselves

1. Personal Experiences

Many people have had miracles happen, stuff that genuinely feels unreal has happened to people, believe it or not it has happened. And the chances of it happening are very slim, but what if these miracles are not by chance but are made by God?

i often feel overwelmed by power myself, does it mean it comes from god? this is intellectual dishonesty to myself if i would claim that

the human need to feel at teh center of things, as if they were chosen by "god", this is dishonesty of the highest form, how can u ignore all the times events didnt line up, or didnt come to fruition and call that when it does align, a divinity

ive realised, when i felt "godly" type dreams(in the non rem type dream), it comes to me at points where my senses were depraved, and i had lost my dionysian drives, or in other words, when i become half ascetic

this need to go to god when ur subconsiouss talks to u is weak, u are urself in total, no influences from the outside happens

1. Backing up Christianity to support my claim

Most historians, even non-Christian ones, agree that Jesus existed, was crucified, and that his followers believed they saw him alive again. Thousands of people also believed that Jesus resurrected, and because of it started to worship him, because of their worship thousands of people were tortured or killed. There is many evidence on the killings/torture of these people. Why would these people go as far as death in their beliefs if the whole resurrection was fake?

its just martyrdom of the ancient prophets, those prophets were simply convinced, it doesnt mean they were right in the traditional sense

and on the case of historical christianity, the 'disciples' misunderstood jesus philosophy to begin with, when jesus died, the guilty and tearful disciples couldnt withstand it, it would be reasonable to then say that if they even saw a figure that resembled jesus rising from the cross, it mustve been the result of there need to see him not as a dead man

1. People find purpose in religion. People’s lives get saved from religion

Many testimonies out there where peoples lives truly change for the ultimate better, people find their life purpose, people change their morals for the better, people change as a person and act more ethically and respectfully. Surely there can't be a pure divine behind this that makes this happen?

not going to go into depth here bc this argument is superficial

religion often gives meaning to those people, which the modern world lack, as well as offering a narcotic for their worries, as they now believe in a saved after life and a all loving god(in the traditional sense)

1. Many of the smartest people and the biggest philosophers believed in God

Philosophers that believed in God: Plato, Aristotle, Thomas Aquinas, Augustine of Hippo

Scientists that believed in God: Isaac Newton, Galileo Galilei, Galileo Galilei, Gregor Mendel, Nikola Tesla

If those people found a reason to believe in God, why can't you?

could be up to alot of reasons, the intellectual feels to compartmentalize his life, intellectual in one, a religious believer in the other

and many could be said about philosophers who believed in god, mostly that its a confession of their deepest desires, in philosophy, this could be just traced to the philosopher needing to justify his emotional needs of a god

1. Religion has a divine kind of feeling to it.

This is only experienced when you actually are in a religion. Being in the christian circle for a long time I have heard many testimonies on how people got saved or saw demons. This can go the same with satanism, if the demons are truly real then, there must be opposite, something like a God (doesn't matter whether you think the God is kind or evil, it's still a God)

ive learned from my own research that most of these divine states are likely just peak states of the nervous system, i use to comparision to drugs for religon, yes the drug makes u think u are indestructible/have wings/etc.. but that doesnt mean u do, just bc u are praying it doesnt mean there is a deity,


idek why i formulated a response to this gpt thread

 

[alurmo]

You can tap into infinite intelligence by unblocking your pineal gland

Were just disconnected from source

lol just asceticism rebranded
alexander the great didnt "unblock pineal gland" to take over macedonia, nor did napoleon are anyone who contributed ANYTHING to society

 

[Algernon]

if the universe had a start it should thus have a end? shouldnt we alreayd have passed that end state, with the amount of time thats passed of the earth and whatnot, so then the world already should be a infinite thing of flux, which then makes time infinite but then it should have a antithesis which would be energy imo, and since energy is finite in my belief, the universe is constantly repeating these finite energy processes

my main sources for this is-- WP-F.N(note- 1066;1067)


man as a being is not stagnant, if we follow the rule of the universe constantly becoming and fluxing, that means the state of man itself is not stagnant

with ur example of a penguin, well a penguin is a penguin, he was bred under conditions formed by his enviroment and the will of his ancestors

like comparing a sheep to lions, the sheep a animal evolved to blend in and do it succesfully results in the ultimate prey, the lion a individualistic type animal who had to will to be a predator


no such thing as objectiveness if we follow the universal law i put forth in the first reply, the world is flux and everchanging, thus the truth shall change, what meant bad for the ancient greeks is a different definition then the modern version
as well as what meant good, as good came from the aristocratic classes who believed their existence in itself was 'good' so they coined it, its no different with morality, hurting innocent people is not in the law books of the aristocrats of india(brahmin script ive recently been reading which is the book of manu(law of manu)), nor was it written into the gods of ancient greece

the lawgiver to this is thus humans themselves

i often feel overwelmed by power myself, does it mean it comes from god? this is intellectual dishonesty to myself if i would claim that

the human need to feel at teh center of things, as if they were chosen by "god", this is dishonesty of the highest form, how can u ignore all the times events didnt line up, or didnt come to fruition and call that when it does align, a divinity

ive realised, when i felt "godly" type dreams(in the non rem type dream), it comes to me at points where my senses were depraved, and i had lost my dionysian drives, or in other words, when i become half ascetic

this need to go to god when ur subconsiouss talks to u is weak, u are urself in total, no influences from the outside happens

its just martyrdom of the ancient prophets, those prophets were simply convinced, it doesnt mean they were right in the traditional sense

and on the case of historical christianity, the 'disciples' misunderstood jesus philosophy to begin with, when jesus died, the guilty and tearful disciples couldnt withstand it, it would be reasonable to then say that if they even saw a figure that resembled jesus rising from the cross, it mustve been the result of there need to see him not as a dead man


not going to go into depth here bc this argument is superficial

religion often gives meaning to those people, which the modern world lack, as well as offering a narcotic for their worries, as they now believe in a saved after life and a all loving god(in the traditional sense)

could be up to alot of reasons, the intellectual feels to compartmentalize his life, intellectual in one, a religious believer in the other

and many could be said about philosophers who believed in god, mostly that its a confession of their deepest desires, in philosophy, this could be just traced to the philosopher needing to justify his emotional needs of a god

ive learned from my own research that most of these divine states are likely just peak states of the nervous system, i use to comparision to drugs for religon, yes the drug makes u think u are indestructible/have wings/etc.. but that doesnt mean u do, just bc u are praying it doesnt mean there is a deity,


idek why i formulated a response to this gpt thread

objective morality does exist though

i'd see it like

you see a robbery

A: you help the guy being robbed against your self-interest and protection
B: you walk away in self-protection but also self-interest to not be harmed
C: you help the guy robbing him so you can split the money, self-interest

choice A=+3 morality
choice B=0 morality
choice C=-5 morality

this is a clear area where morality is objective, I'd say in some areas thoufh there is a least worst choice like 1, 0, -5, -15 or something, or +0.1, 0, -0.1 where it makes a small difference

but there is always a moral best choice

 

[Brava]

if the universe had a start it should thus have a end? shouldnt we alreayd have passed that end state, with the amount of time thats passed of the earth and whatnot, so then the world already should be a infinite thing of flux, which then makes time infinite but then it should have a antithesis which would be energy imo, and since energy is finite in my belief, the universe is constantly repeating these finite energy processes

my main sources for this is-- WP-F.N(note- 1066;1067)

wait so if it doset have a end god cant exist?

man as a being is not stagnant, if we follow the rule of the universe constantly becoming and fluxing, that means the state of man itself is not stagnant

with ur example of a penguin, well a penguin is a penguin, he was bred under conditions formed by his enviroment and the will of his ancestors

like comparing a sheep to lions, the sheep a animal evolved to blend in and do it succesfully results in the ultimate prey, the lion a individualistic type animal who had to will to be a predator

that doesn’t mean there’s no stable human nature at all, there are still consistent traits like social behavior and cooperation that continue across time.

no such thing as objectiveness if we follow the universal law i put forth in the first reply, the world is flux and everchanging, thus the truth shall change, what meant bad for the ancient greeks is a different definition then the modern version
as well as what meant good, as good came from the aristocratic classes who believed their existence in itself was 'good' so they coined it, its no different with morality, hurting innocent people is not in the law books of the aristocrats of india(brahmin script ive recently been reading which is the book of manu(law of manu)), nor was it written into the gods of ancient greece

Change in moral beliefs across cultures shows that peoples understanding of morality get more and more developed, not necessarily that morality itself is subjective just like changing scientific beliefs don’t mean there’s no objective reality




thank you for your response

i did not use chat gpt idk why people say this (only for moral argument)

i will respond to the rest later im reall tired im really sorry i dont want to be deemed as disrepectful

 

[Brava]

people that say i used ai

why and how are you seeing that

like everything i written looks human written

maybe the moral argument that i did use chat gpt but i reworded it mostly


like brooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo stoppppppppppppppppppppp

 

[alurmo]

objective morality does exist though

i'd see it like

you see a robbery

A: you help the guy being robbed against your self-interest and protection
B: you walk away in self-protection but also self-interest to not be harmed
C: you help the guy robbing him so you can split the money, self-interest

choice A=+3 morality
choice B=0 morality
choice C=-5 morality

this is a clear area where morality is objective, I'd say in some areas thoufh there is a least worst choice like 1, 0, -5, -15 or something, or +0.1, 0, -0.1 where it makes a small difference

but there is always a moral best choice

well its prob bc u want it to be objective, in truth there is no way quantify "morality" with numbers and such, the fact that u turned morlaity into a number system itself makes this a lie, u stripped away the context of the act, the history of the act, and the drives behind it, actions imo are variables that change depending on who is acting on and who is being acted upon

also intellectual dishonesty through way of trying to transform philosophy into symbols, its why i hated kant and spinoza( i like spinoza's idea of god tho), the obession with logic makes them dress their moral inclinations up in a objective form

a successful society(the ancient greeks in my world) didnt really have alot of works on logic, which is due to their culture beinc based upon instinct and style, which led them to be successfull in turn

also morality in itself is subjective, what could be seen as bad by the robber is seen as good by someone from a different era and place

 

[Algernon]

people that say i used ai

why and how are you seeing that

like everything i written looks human written

maybe the moral argument that i did use chat gpt but i reworded it mostly


like brooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo stoppppppppppppppppppppp

the emojis and centered bolded text

reading it though thats just good formatting, and the first of the actual text doesn't look chat gpt

i think only the first two look real the rest look ai

 

[Algernon]

well its prob bc u want it to be objective, in truth there is no way quantify "morality" with numbers and such, the fact that u turned morlaity into a number system itself makes this a lie, u stripped away the context of the act, the history of the act, and the drives behind it, actions imo are variables that change depending on who is acting on and who is being acted upon

also intellectual dishonesty through way of trying to transform philosophy into symbols, its why i hated kant and spinoza( i like spinoza's idea of god tho), the obession with logic makes them dress their moral inclinations up in a objective form

a successful society(the ancient greeks in my world) didnt really have alot of works on logic, which is due to their culture beinc based upon instinct and style, which led them to be successfull in turn

also morality in itself is subjective, what could be seen as bad by the robber is seen as good by someone from a different era and place

i mean morality can be mathematically represented

almost anything can be

its just you need some initial assumptions

also i don't read philosophy so idk anything about kant or spinoza (well i heard a little about spinoza though but it was a short overview)

 

[TheEndMogger]

I think that the belief of the big bang is very illogical, like what are the odds that all stuff just magically comes all together and… boom! The world is created. There must have been something to be there and control that whole scenario

Niggas be dumb as fuck trying to be philosophers

 

[soapbubble]

thats a good point not gonna lie. but this point is mostly talking about stuff that BEGIN to exist. like the universe it began to exist at one point, god never began existing, he "always was and awlays will be" unfortunately no evedince, but lets say if god is 100% real everyone knows he is real, i still doubt we would have evedince for god always existing because its something that is only understandable to the divine and not us humans.

To clarify though, if god doesn’t need a creator to exist why does the universe? You can say that god always existed is more likely than the universe just randomly springing into motion one day but you can’t really effectively say the first is a better argument. As for the last sentence, I agree that there’s a chance but it is also in human nature to think and understand what is around us. It’s also why there’s no “established religion,” because there is no solid evidence or argument that everyone can agree makes sense.

this is very bias towards the anthropic effect. just because something was unlikely to happen dosent mean it was designed. the thing is, is that even the slighest change in our universe would cause major changes, someone couldve been behind it all to control it all through.

? Elaborate pls.

if morality is purely constructed then there is no objective right or wrong, only opinions and social agreements. someone had to set the standards. Objective morality doesn’t depend on rewards/punishments, It depends on whether moral truths exist independently of us.

Humans set the standard. We just happened to be wired with the beliefs that some things are good and some things are bad. Don’t forget we evolved to act a certain way because of certain ancient human dynamics which promoted cooperation and mutual benefit, cultural beliefs etc. You will have to prove that humans happening to favor certain moral positions = god exists. Morals just happened to be part of the human design.

I acctually will agree with you, miracles are rare, if they were more often then id disagree

wait so youll beleive in philosophers being alive but jesus its a no? and no religion was persecuted as much as christianity. maybe if the majority of the persecutions happened like 3,000 years later then sure, but they happened right after jesus's resurrection, why were people willing to die for it, either there were truly some spritiual powers or they are dumb

What does christianity being the most persecuted religion have to do with anything? If so many religions exist obviously some will excel in popularity. It’s commonly accepted that Jesus existed but his resurrection is less so. People were much more primitive, had a shorter lifespan, and had a smaller knowledge base than we do now, meaning misinformation can spread much faster. Even today most people base their lives around a religion because it’s what their parents, family and/or culture taught them, not because they went through the motions of picking and choosing the most logically sound option, it’s not like people are super logical robots regarding their beliefs.

not my point, being in the christian sphere I would see many people have their lives changed after being drug addicts and doing not good stuff, them finding god and having their lives changed, there must be something going on there. Ive talked to people that are devoted christians and they would tell me how fufilled their live feels (obviously i can tbe 100% sure i dont know everythign what people do)

Have you ever heard of the placebo effect? Even if there is no god, believing in a loving one that is truly invested in your life can have a huge impact.

yes this is true, but ig you can look at it as smart people seeing a truth in god, so if really smart people can why cant you

This is the same logic people used back in 500 BC. “If the smart guy said so, it must be true.” It’s only by questioning what they say rather than taking their word for it that humans can advance knowledge on a topic. Many of the smart people you’re thinking of are known as smart in the history books today because they were contrarians. Many smart people also are atheists, so you can’t just follow one guy blindly in this because he or she seems impressive.

yes this is true, but ig you can look at it as smart people seeing a truth in god, so if really smart people can why cant you

Thousands of religions. Billions of potential upbringings, familial and cultural values, life experiences that shape your religion and more importantly your identity as a person. And yet you need to choose the exact right set of beliefs to be rewarded? It’s a lottery, it’s not fair. If god judges based on things like that he is not loving at all.

 

[shedontluv-U]

Why God exists, I will keep this short and sweet for the “dnr” people

And just for prefaces I want people to understand that im not really religious, im just tired of seeing the stubbornness around religion and want to bring up some points that it might actually exist. In the future I will make a post for my beliefs against God.

1. The Universe Had to have had a beggining

I think that the belief of the big bang is very illogical, like what are the odds that all stuff just magically comes all together and… boom! The world is created. There must have been something to be there and control that whole scenario

1. Life exists on very specific conditions

Taking literally anything in this world like a penguin for example, there are so many complex bacteria, cells, muscles, etc that make a penguin a penguin. Having that be created from one single Boom is very questionable.

1. The Moral Argument

Many people feel some things are objectively right or wrong (like hurting innocent people).
If objective morality exists, some argue it must come from a moral lawgiver.
That lawgiver would be something like a God.

1. Personal Experiences

Many people have had miracles happen, stuff that genuinely feels unreal has happened to people, believe it or not it has happened. And the chances of it happening are very slim, but what if these miracles are not by chance but are made by God?

1. Backing up Christianity to support my claim

Most historians, even non-Christian ones, agree that Jesus existed, was crucified, and that his followers believed they saw him alive again. Thousands of people also believed that Jesus resurrected, and because of it started to worship him, because of their worship thousands of people were tortured or killed. There is many evidence on the killings/torture of these people. Why would these people go as far as death in their beliefs if the whole resurrection was fake?

1. People find purpose in religion. People’s lives get saved from religion

Many testimonies out there where peoples lives truly change for the ultimate better, people find their life purpose, people change their morals for the better, people change as a person and act more ethically and respectfully. Surely there can't be a pure divine behind this that makes this happen?

1. Many of the smartest people and the biggest philosophers believed in God

Philosophers that believed in God: Plato, Aristotle, Thomas Aquinas, Augustine of Hippo

Scientists that believed in God: Isaac Newton, Galileo Galilei, Galileo Galilei, Gregor Mendel, Nikola Tesla

If those people found a reason to believe in God, why can't you?

1. Religion has a divine kind of feeling to it.

This is only experienced when you actually are in a religion. Being in the christian circle for a long time I have heard many testimonies on how people got saved or saw demons. This can go the same with satanism, if the demons are truly real then, there must be opposite, something like a God (doesn't matter whether you think the God is kind or evil, it's still a God)

View attachment 4803591

Sources:
.
https://www.freethinkingministries.com/post/my-5-favorite-arguments-for-god-s-existence
https://faculty.som.yale.edu/jameschoi/whychrist/
https://18forty.org/articles/3-arguments-for-gods-existence/





Thank you for reading this Thread


@Jesus_ist_König
@DrMd

Mirin

 

[soapbubble]

objective morality does exist though

i'd see it like

you see a robbery

A: you help the guy being robbed against your self-interest and protection
B: you walk away in self-protection but also self-interest to not be harmed
C: you help the guy robbing him so you can split the money, self-interest

choice A=+3 morality
choice B=0 morality
choice C=-5 morality

this is a clear area where morality is objective, I'd say in some areas thoufh there is a least worst choice like 1, 0, -5, -15 or something, or +0.1, 0, -0.1 where it makes a small difference

but there is always a moral best choice

Yes but there are different types of morality. Consequentialism, deontology etc. In the robbing situation the right thing to do, choice A, seems obvious because it follows the most intuitive moral frameworks. But in more complicated situations, like the trolley problem for instance (jfl it’s a buzzword atp ), many would disagree on the “right thing to do.” Most people would agree on the robbery problem you mentioned but disagree on the trolley problem because truthfully many people measure morality differently in their heads.

 

[autistic_tendencies]

lol just asceticism rebranded
alexander the great didnt "unblock pineal gland" to take over macedonia, nor did napoleon are anyone who contributed ANYTHING to society

They were free thinkers who used their own brains

 

[Mizi44]

No way nigga said short and sweet then dropped the library of alexandria itself in one thread

 

[mr123456]

Why God exists, I will keep this short and sweet for the “dnr” people

And just for prefaces I want people to understand that im not really religious, im just tired of seeing the stubbornness around religion and want to bring up some points that it might actually exist. In the future I will make a post for my beliefs against God.

1. The Universe Had to have had a beggining

I think that the belief of the big bang is very illogical, like what are the odds that all stuff just magically comes all together and… boom! The world is created. There must have been something to be there and control that whole scenario

1. Life exists on very specific conditions

Taking literally anything in this world like a penguin for example, there are so many complex bacteria, cells, muscles, etc that make a penguin a penguin. Having that be created from one single Boom is very questionable.

1. The Moral Argument

Many people feel some things are objectively right or wrong (like hurting innocent people).
If objective morality exists, some argue it must come from a moral lawgiver.
That lawgiver would be something like a God.

1. Personal Experiences

Many people have had miracles happen, stuff that genuinely feels unreal has happened to people, believe it or not it has happened. And the chances of it happening are very slim, but what if these miracles are not by chance but are made by God?

1. Backing up Christianity to support my claim

Most historians, even non-Christian ones, agree that Jesus existed, was crucified, and that his followers believed they saw him alive again. Thousands of people also believed that Jesus resurrected, and because of it started to worship him, because of their worship thousands of people were tortured or killed. There is many evidence on the killings/torture of these people. Why would these people go as far as death in their beliefs if the whole resurrection was fake?

1. People find purpose in religion. People’s lives get saved from religion

Many testimonies out there where peoples lives truly change for the ultimate better, people find their life purpose, people change their morals for the better, people change as a person and act more ethically and respectfully. Surely there can't be a pure divine behind this that makes this happen?

1. Many of the smartest people and the biggest philosophers believed in God

Philosophers that believed in God: Plato, Aristotle, Thomas Aquinas, Augustine of Hippo

Scientists that believed in God: Isaac Newton, Galileo Galilei, Galileo Galilei, Gregor Mendel, Nikola Tesla

If those people found a reason to believe in God, why can't you?

1. Religion has a divine kind of feeling to it.

This is only experienced when you actually are in a religion. Being in the christian circle for a long time I have heard many testimonies on how people got saved or saw demons. This can go the same with satanism, if the demons are truly real then, there must be opposite, something like a God (doesn't matter whether you think the God is kind or evil, it's still a God)

View attachment 4803591

Sources:
.
https://www.freethinkingministries.com/post/my-5-favorite-arguments-for-god-s-existence
https://faculty.som.yale.edu/jameschoi/whychrist/
https://18forty.org/articles/3-arguments-for-gods-existence/





Thank you for reading this Thread


@Jesus_ist_König
@DrMd

i agree i dont really believe in one specific god but ik there is higher being

 

[Brava]

Niggas be dumb as fuck trying to be philosophers

?