Why is murder wrong?

[Deleted member 17791]

Suppose I hypothetically killed someone, what would the results of said action be?

1. I get pleasure from acting out my impulses

2. person dies

Now consequence one is a net positive because I experience pleasure.

Consequence two is a net positive because death is neither good or bad, it's the the ending of any experiences for them all together, good and bad, and it results in less people to suck up resources.

 

[WontStopNorwooding]

Suppose I hypothetically killed your parents, what would the results of said action be?

1. I get pleasure from acting out my impulses

2. faggot op's parents die

 

[hebbewem]

He wanted to be alive so you take away that so is net negative

 

[Vermilioncore]

I don’t know why it’s wrong.

It isn’t wrong unless you murder someone I don’t want you to murder, then it’s wrong. Everything is neutral unless it affects me negatively, then it’s wrong.

 

[Deleted member 17791]

Suppose I hypothetically killed your parents, what would the results of said action be?

1. I get pleasure from acting out my impulses

2. faggot op's parents die

This is a typical normie argument.

muh what if said thing happened to you? bet you wouldn't like it huh?

Fuck off, use logic not appeals to emotion

 

[Deleted member 17791]

He wanted to be alive so you take away that so is net negative

His wants are cancelled out by the fact he no longer exists. His desires are worth nothing.

 

[hebbewem]

His wants are cancelled out by the fact he no longer exists. His desires are worth nothing.

He existed and his wants was to be alive . After his death his wants matter but when he qas alive they did

 

[Deleted member 17791]

I don’t know why it’s wrong.

It isn’t wrong unless you murder someone I don’t want you to murder, then it’s wrong. Everything is neutral unless it affects me negatively, then it’s wrong.

Tbh, my happiness>other people's happiness.

I can only prove I exist with certainty, everyone else can't be 100% proven to exist. I am therefore more real and thus superior fundamentally

 

[Matthias8272]

 

[Deleted member 17791]

He existed and his wants was to be alive . After his death his wants matter but when he qas alive they did

They matter when he's alive but stop mattering when he dies.

So murder is wrong before you do it but alright after.

 

[hebbewem]

They matter when he's alive but stop mattering when he dies.

So murder is wrong before you do it but alright after.

Yeah you can't kill a dead person so i dont get your point

 

[Deleted member 17791]

 

[Deleted member 17791]

Yeah you can't kill a dead person so i dont get your point

No, after you finish murdering, it becomes a good thing.

 

[Growth Plate]

muh what if said thing happened to you? bet you wouldn't like it huh?

Obviously there is no objective reason for murder to be considered wrong. I agree. It's impossible to state one, because objectively there is indeed no reason.

But, do you want a peaceful fair and balanced society where you don't need to have your cortisol constantly peaked because murder is considered legal, or not?

All of morality based laws are based off making everything fair to both parties to create a peaceful society

 

[hebbewem]

No, after you finish murdering, it becomes a good thing.

The first process is the killing and thats much worse then because of your enjoyment is a small postive so its still not negative

 

[Deleted member 13787]

its not "moral" because in society we've established social contracts to keep things in order
if you have the intention of killing someone he can also kill you whenever he wants to and it will be justified because you broke the contract
which is why wanting to kill ppl is a bad idea, you can get killed anytime by those people

 

[Deleted member 17791]

Obviously there is no objective reason for murder to be considered wrong. I agree. It's impossible to state one, because objectively there is indeed no reason.

But, do you want a peaceful fair and balanced society where you don't need to have your cortisol constantly peaked because murder is considered legal, or not?

All of morality based laws are based off making everything fair to both parties to create a peaceful society

My logic provided before is the very reason I'm amoral.

I agree, I'd rather live in a stable society.

 

[Deleted member 15067]

If you kill an innocent person for no reason your brain will feel horrible because you’ve decreased the human population and because humans are social creatures naturally

 

[Deleted member 17791]

The first process is the killing and thats much worse then because of your enjoyment is a small postive so its still not negative

How can you measure which positive is larger? You can't, that's just an opinion.

Also ending a life or causing someone to cease any further experiences is a net zero because it results in null for them. Null everything. Nothingness is neither good or bad.

 

[Deleted member 17791]

If you kill an innocent person for no reason your brain will feel horrible because you’ve decreased the human population and because humans are social creatures naturally

The hypothetical scenario clearly implies that I'd be non NT.

 

[darkness97]

as a person who benefits from society, you also have a stake in it. if you think it isn't wrong for you to kill someone, then nobody else should either. There is no society if everyone thinks this way.

If you want to kill someone and follow your own moral code, you have gone against society and will be removed from it.

calling death neither good nor bad is a weird as fuck take. i can hardly take this seriously. Go live in the worst favelas in brazil or mexico and see how much you enjoy it.

 

[Growth Plate]

Tbh, my happiness>other people's happiness.

I can only prove I exist with certainty, everyone else can't be 100% proven to exist. I am therefore more real and thus superior fundamentally

You're coming off as a 15yo that just discovered "I think, therefore I am" and is trying hard to embody the 3 personality traits of muh dark triad

I am not disagreeing with anything you're saying, but the way you're posting your thoughts comes off as very cringe

 

[Deleted member 13787]

How can you measure which positive is larger? You can't, that's just an opinion.

Also ending a life or causing someone to cease any further experiences is a net zero because it results in null for them. Null everything. Nothingness is neither good or bad.

a momentary period of joy for the killer is nowhere near worth as much as the whole life of another person, youre taking away decades of life fullfilment from them
that being said even if you would get more pleasure, AKA more utility it would still be amoral
utilitarianism just doesnt work in real life, maybe in an abstract world

 

[Deleted member 17791]

You're coming off as a 15yo that just discovered "I think, therefore I am" and is trying hard to embody the 3 personality traits of muh dark triad

I am not disagreeing with anything you're saying, but the way you're posting your thoughts comes off as very cringe

Tbh, I'm a forever child. Narcy baby fuck. Baby want milk! NOW

 

[Growth Plate]

Tbh, I'm a forever child. Narcy baby fuck. Baby want milk! NOW

Are you 15? Tbh?

 

[Deleted member 17791]

a momentary period of joy for the killer is nowhere near worth as much as the whole life of another person, youre taking away decades of life fullfilment from them
that being said even if you would get more pleasure, AKA more utility it would still be amoral
utilitarianism just doesnt work in real life, maybe in an abstract world

I've already explained why ceasing existence is neither good or bad. The lack of continued experience is a neutral.

 

[Deleted member 17791]

Are you 15? Tbh?

Im 19.

 

[Acee]

You forgot to mention you`re living in society.

 

[Growth Plate]

Im 19.

How old do you think I am?

 

[Deleted member 17791]

You forgot to mention you`re living in society.

 

[Acee]

View attachment 1712605

So you`re not interested in an answer while you asked the question. Cool.

 

[Deleted member 17791]

How old do you think I am?

I know you're a teenager. Sad to see you're no longer following the growth curve.

You also use words like cringe, so I know you're a zoomer.

 

[Deleted member 17791]

So you`re not interested in an answer while you asked the question. Cool.

ye kinda

So what if we live in a society?

 

[Acee]

So what if we live in a society?

That`s the whole concept of society

 

[darkness97]

I've already explained why ceasing existence is neither good or bad. The lack of continued experience is a neutral.

this idea that just because it is an opinion doesn't make it valid is also wrong. your opinion is neither beneficial, nor the commonly agreed upon system. even calling the lack of continued experience is a neutral is stupid.

"good" to you should mean creating a system that allows you to be happy without making other people unhappy. Because as much as you might say that yeah "i would like to kill someone", you wouldn't want someone to kill you. if you can understand that you dont want to die then you should also understand that killing is wrong.

 

[Deleted member 13787]

I've already explained why ceasing existence is neither good or bad. The lack of continued experience is a neutral.

its not neutral if you know for a fact that the person can live a life if you dont intervene...
your logic would only work if the person youre killing had a chance of causing basically any net negative/positive on the world
here you know for a fact that a person is probably going to experience years of happines in the future and youre stopping that
by your logic if there was a terrorist who you knew for a fact would take away the lives of thousands of people, and you killed him, it wouldnt be a net positive because ceasing his existence is a neutral...

 

[Acee]

this idea that just because it is an opinion doesn't make it valid is also wrong. your opinion is neither beneficial, nor the commonly agreed upon system. even calling the lack of continued experience is a neutral is stupid.

"good" to you should mean creating a system that allows you to be happy without making other people unhappy. Because as much as you might say that yeah "i would like to kill someone", you wouldn't want someone to kill you. if you can understand that you dont want to die then you should also understand that killing is wrong.

its not neutral if you know for a fact that the person can live a life if you dont intervene...
your logic would only work if the person youre killing had a chance of causing basically any net negative/positive on the world
here you know for a fact that a person is probably going to experience years of happines in the future and youre stopping that
by your logic if there was a terrorist who you knew for a fact would take away the lives of thousands of people, and you killed him, it wouldnt be a net positive because ceasing his existence is a neutral...

dn read

 

[Deleted member 17791]

its not neutral if you know for a fact that the person can live a life if you dont intervene...
your logic would only work if the person youre killing had a chance of causing basically any net negative/positive on the world
here you know for a fact that a person is probably going to experience years of happines in the future and youre stopping that
by your logic if there was a terrorist who you knew for a fact would take away the lives of thousands of people, and you killed him, it wouldnt be a net positive because ceasing his existence is a neutral...

You can't know the future, so it doesn't matter. Also alternative futures don't exist, so it doesn't matter if they could have lived a happy life, they didn't, they're dead.

 

[darkness97]

dn read

dn read? is something wrong with my computer? because i dont remember pinging you

 

[Deleted member 17791]

this idea that just because it is an opinion doesn't make it valid is also wrong. your opinion is neither beneficial, nor the commonly agreed upon system. even calling the lack of continued experience is a neutral is stupid.

"good" to you should mean creating a system that allows you to be happy without making other people unhappy. Because as much as you might say that yeah "i would like to kill someone", you wouldn't want someone to kill you. if you can understand that you dont want to die then you should also understand that killing is wrong.

Opinion must be justified with evidence for it to be valid.

Nothingness can't be anything other than neutral, it's simply nothingness, without substance.

 

[Deleted member 13787]

You can't know the future, so it doesn't matter. Also alternative futures don't exist, so it doesn't matter if they could have lived a happy life, they didn't, they're dead.

you dont need to know the future, you only need to know the odds of things that are about to happen...
on average the person is going to experience more joy from living the rest of his life than you from killing him
by your logic anyone who holds any kind of stocks, and they all somehow get stolen from them, actually didnt lose any money cause he never liquidated them
even though he couldve done it at any time and 100% got money

 

[Acee]

Opinion must be justified with evidence for it to be valid.

Nothingness can't be anything other than neutral, it's simply nothingness, without substance.

Why is logic ''logical''? can`t I be logical without using logic? who decided that I have to use logic to sound logical? sounds like bullshit tbh.

 

[Acee]

you dont need to know the future, you only need to know the odds of things that are about to happen...
on average the person is going to experience more joy from living the rest of his life than you from killing him
by your logic anyone who holds any kind of stocks, and they all somehow get stolen from them, actually didnt lose any money cause he never liquidated them
even though he couldve done it at any time and 100% got money

dn read

 

[Acee]

dn read? is something wrong with my computer? because i dont remember pinging you

dn read

 

[Deleted member 13787]

dn read

ignored

 

[Acee]

ignored

We both know you`re not ignoring shit and you like my posts.

 

[darkness97]

Opinion must be justified with evidence for it to be valid.

Nothingness can't be anything other than neutral, it's simply nothingness, without substance.

you're talking about the subjective experience of the victim and are ignoring the experiences of the people who know him. Plus, being murdered isn't a pleasant experience.

Murder being a bad thing is like literal 101 morality. below that actually.

you're dumy

dn read

yeah you did.

 

[Deleted member 17791]

you dont need to know the future, you only need to know the odds of things that are about to happen...
on average the person is going to experience more joy from living the rest of his life than you from killing him
by your logic anyone who holds any kind of stocks, and they all somehow get stolen from them, actually didnt lose any money cause he never liquidated them
even though he couldve done it at any time and 100% got money

So not killing them may likely result in more happiness. Still doesn't prove the alternative is a negative.

A. they live and experience happiness (maybe)

B. they die and experience nothing

Yeah, they didn't lose any money. Possible profit isn't actual profit. It doesn't exist.

 

[Acee]

So not killing them may likely result in more happiness. Still doesn't prove the alternative is a negative.

A. they live and experience happiness (maybe)

B. they die and experience nothing

Yeah, they didn't lose any money. Possible profit isn't actual profit. It doesn't exist.

Give me an IQ test to do, something that u did. I`m bored.

 

[Deleted member 17791]

you're talking about the subjective experience of the victim and are ignoring the experiences of the people who know him. Plus, being murdered isn't a pleasant experience.

Murder being a bad thing is like literal 101 morality. below that actually.

you're dumy

yeah you did.

Their experiences are nullified by them ceasing to exist, any experience they had prior no longer exists and any memory they have is gone. Total annihilation of everything about them, nothingness.

I've touched upon how it effects other people in my op post already, this is exactly what turns it into a bet positive. Those relatives also get to inherit stuff, so they get long term benefits that would outweigh momentary sadness.