Blackpill A Detailed breakdown on Male dimorphism, indicators of health and its roles in attractiveness

Playboypuertorican

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SubhumanCurrycel

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Playboypuertorican said:
 
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We need more high-iq currycels to contribute to this forum. Beautiful thread was absolutely flabberagasted and astounded when i initially read it. Fucking bravo. Take a bow son. SubhumanCurrycel @SubhumanCurrycel
 
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SubhumanCurrycel @SubhumanCurrycel What inspired you to make this thread and where did you get the info from?
 
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AscendingHero said:
SubhumanCurrycel @SubhumanCurrycel What inspired you to make this thread and where did you get the info from?
I was just thinking about a lot of shit in the middle of lockdown decided to write it all out.
The information was saved on my desktop for almost a year things I had collected and saved when I came across them some I searched while I was making the thread
 
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SubhumanCurrycel @SubhumanCurrycel Are you going to continue to make any more godly threads of this calibre?! If you do tag me
 
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AscendingHero said:
SubhumanCurrycel @SubhumanCurrycel Are you going to continue to make any more godly threads of this calibre?! If you do tag me
Will do if I make another
 
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Phillybeard1996 said:
Does looking masculine mean u look lowtrust?
Most of the time yea
 
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SubhumanCurrycel said:
been reading a lot of differing opinions on topics such as masc vs pretty boy, Feminine features vs Masculine features and more importantly what is sexual dimorphism why is it important, how important is it and so forth.

To Start it off
There seems to be a lot of confusion on this topic too, people will say guys like Vinnie the Hacker or Young Henry Cavil have ideal appeal because they are "masculine with feminine features"
View attachment 889023
View attachment 889024
But this is simply not true and I will break down why





What is Sexual Dimorphism?

Copypasting straight from google I get this:
" Sexual dimorphism is the condition where the two sexes of the same species exhibit different characteristics beyond the differences in their sexual organs.
Pretty self explanatory as our gonads produce androgenic hormones that have an especially significant effect on our physcical appearance and give indicators of our "genetic package" and develop during and after puberty signalling fertility.

Since you are here I assume you haven't fallen for the trap of "women aren't visual like men" or "men aren't expected to be goodlooking like women are"
We all know this is nonsense and when you look at other species the opposite if anything is true
View attachment 889045
This Continues even for mammals
View attachment 889047
And even for our Great Ape Cousins
View attachment 889048

Males in mammalian species that successfully procure many mates and are higher in the heirarchy often exhbit more sexual dimorphism than the average in the group
For example
Elephant Seals:
" A good example of intrasexual selection, in which males fight for dominance over a harem of females "
The Deer I posted above interact in which the males will ram their antlers into one another (sexually dimorphic trait) and those that win these tests have access to the most females.

Same goes for the Mountain Bison:
View attachment 889055
In fact its even more extreme for them. The male Bison are hyper aggressive so they essentially outcast themselves from the females of their species where year round they will but heads. Once Breeding season comes along the most dominant male in the heirarchy (directly associated with their physical dimorphism and dominance) will leave the male group and copulate with all the fertile females.

The mammalian structure of sexual and natural selection dynamics results in

Why do Mammals behave this way?

Some of you may be wondering this
Why is it this way? Why does it have to be this way? This is Unfair!

There are many ways to break this down firstly lets think of it in term of raw Sexual economics
Paraphrasing from a FaceandLMS video:
"A man produces more sperm in one day than a woman produces in her life, the female's egg is far more valuable than the sperm, millions of sperm will rush to the same egg real life is analagous to that"

Thats one way to put it.
But personally I think it Makes more sense to look at it through an action/reaction, cost effect lens:

Think of a scenario

A long time ago say 100'000 years ago two archiac humans one male and one female (cave Adam and Eve lol) find themselves isolated together in a cave for some time etc.
Just by virtue of this situation both have sex, not just once but multiple times throughout days, weeks maybe even months.
As a result of this they are likely to have sex during the females ovulation cycle and thus become pregnant

All is said and done right?
No not really
Lets take a detailed breakdown of the pros and Cons of each party involved as like every action there is a consequence and the consequences are not equally distributed between the sexes.

Male:
Pros: Passes on his DNA survival of his genetic material
Cons: Virtually none other than losing sperm

Female:
Pros: Like the male she passes on her DNA
Cons: None immediately BUT, in approximately a weeks time she will begin to feel sick and begin vommiting, shes pregnant and the initial feotus releases certain waste that make her sick, that is just the beginning,for the next 9 months she will have a vulnerable livign organism growing inside her
There are no maternity leaves in mother nature she is vulnerable to predators killing her, other humans killing her, if she gets hurt and the baby dies the baby will literally necrose inside her and kill her organs.
Her immune system is compromised and her need for nutrition and resources incrases to support the baby.
Once her pregnancy ends it doesn't stop there
An extremely common cause of death among women pre medical era was childbirth often due to blood loss.
Now she must harbour an infant and nurse it to a state of independence once again a very draining and cost heavy process.




Hence given this massive cost/benefit difference Women must select far more harshly on Traits:
Also imortant to note:
Mother nature has also made it that men have a higher sex drive than women meaning men are more willing to fuck and women are more willing to be more picky, sexual drive is like hunger and a hungry man will eat more + settle for less while a satiated will not eat as much and only eat when the quality is good


Looks:
Looks are an indicator of your genetic quality, if she is going to go through all that trouble she must insure the genetic material in the form of the sperm she will be recieving is of a high quality as to ensure that the offspring are genetically fit individuals themselves with a higher chance of survival, it is pretty self explanatory

Status:
Deny it all you want but humans are inherently a social species, heirarchies are as natural as taking a shit despite what leftists will tell you, they are universal to all great apes and virtually all mammals, status matters because a high status male is higher in the heirarchy they have more access to food, resources, power (and security) and as a consequence mates as they are the most secure option to breed with
Again as stated before a lot of the heirarchical behaviours in animals
Heirarchical behaviour is basic shit I learnt in highschool biology under the topic of Animal Behaviour, Don't be so naive to think this does not apply to you.

Resources
I specifically say resources as this changes over time but at our current age it seems as if its main mediator is money etc and once upon a time it was based on the physical labour and merit of a man. The more resources a man has the more likely he is to provide and protect the female during her pregnancy and throughout the time she raises her infants hence she makes an educated choice on which man will give her that security?

How do these factors interact with each other?
In the past I think they would've interacted more with each other due to the fact that virtually all acquirement of resources was based on physical merit etc. and money kind of changes that but the links still apply
A good looking male will tend to have a higher status and more opportunity to acquire resources
We observe this as the Hailo effect all of you are probably familar with where better looking people will be treated better even in corporate settings and so on.

" good-looking people make about 12% more money than less appealing folks, and that attractive real-estate brokers bring in more money than their less attractive peers."
.







Sexual Dimorphism vs Indicators of Youth and Health)

I believe this is something fundamental that some users on this forum fail to understand.
Users often confuse indicators of youth with Feminine features



Sexual dimorphism is almost always a positive.
Yes there are certain extremes in certain cases where too much dimorphism is present but this really isnt an issue for most and a lot of times it is indicitive of an underlying hormal regulation issue like pic related:
View attachment 889034
Being a clinically recognized medical condition/abnormality gives sense as to why said trait is not seen as attractive as it indicates bad health/genetics unfit for survival.



What is the distinction between the two then?

It's pretty clear

Indicators of Youth and Health are favoured in BOTH Sexes where as a dimorphic trait (male or female) is only favourable in ONE

This idea that certain feminine features look good on men is just dumb as a feminine feature is the antithesis of a male feature hence making the face less dimorphic and reducing its attractiveness

View attachment 889093

This is taking a caucasian face and changing the soft features such as hair minimically whilst emulating the dimorphic features
In the middle is AND meaning androgynous this is OBJECTIVELY the worst place to be in as an adult male or female as it has 0 dimorphic qualities on either side its features are an inbetween blend across the board, something you would expect from a prepubescent child, an individual with a chromosomal disorder such as intersex (Kleinfelters) or a transexual.
Many people confuse feminine/androgynous traits with indicators of Health which I'll explain later.

On the far left is closest for a male face (DOM) at least for a caucasian male, all his features from the wider bigonial, the follow cheeks, the bigger nose the wider chin, the more deepset eyes, the "boxxed off" hairline, and strong cheekbones are on the masculine side.

ANY feature you would make more "feminine" on the far left would lower his sexual attractiveness objectively
And no forward growth/not being recessed isnt dimorphic but the bone mass and ideal ratios are.

Indicators of Youth and Health are far different

They are often applicable universally across both sexes, youth is not to be confused with prepubescent features rather features indicating that the individual has signs of good health and mininmal aging given they are post puberty,

What is an example of this?

Collagen:
I often see how having good skin and collagen is seen as a "prettyboy" feature (hinting its not masculine), This is simply not true. Either you've been looking at too many roidheads with piss poor reptialian skin or fell for the meme that wanting to have good skin as a man is "gay and feminine:
View attachment 889099
View attachment 889024


Translates to good health with minimal biological aging and likely a good diet + skin genetics.

" Changes in collagen and elastic fibers are followed by the appearance of rhytides, sagging of skin, and loss of elasticity (Figure d). But diet, trough ingestion of sugar, can accelerate these signs of aging "
" "looking old for your age" is an indicator of poor health. The concept of perceived age has been shown to be predictive of mortality in elderly individuals (5, 6) and is associated with a higher risk of both morbidity and mortality (7). "
" Acute exposure to UV is associated with sunburn, DNA modifications, and immune suppression, but chronic, long-term exposure can lead to premature skin aging (photoaging) and skin cancer "


Just a short summary but signs of aging also linked with a poor diet, an accurate indicator of health predictive of an early death, also indicates skin damage and proclibity towards cancer.

This is not a feminine feature nor is it a masculine one it is seperate and is an indicator of health something that is beneficial and preferable between BOTH sexes and has very consistent traits that predict the health of the individual be that male or female and is totally unrelated to the sexual differentiation produced by the gonads.

HAIR QUALITY.
(Inb4 I rope)
I specify hair quality not just hair as there are dimorphic preferences in hair regarding to colour and this only refers to scalp hair not facial hair.

Clear indication is deficincies:
B vitamins that are crucial for cell function have been shown to be associated with hair loss/thinning along with folate and iron.
It can also be indicitive of a thyroid issue.
Many autoimmune diseases such as alopecia arieta target and kill hairfollicles this to an observer may indicate a malfunctioning immune system hence is seen as a biological negative regarding the genetic quality of the individual


Male and female pattern baldness:
Both are indicitive of a hormonal issue
Male pattern baldness is caused by an excess of DHT it may or may not signal a problem with testosterone (wether it be too little or too much)
.
The link is still unclear but:
"Research is showing men with male pattern baldness have an increased risk of developing heart disease and prostate cancer. Research is showing men with male pattern baldness have an increased risk of developing heart disease and prostate"

Females can also develop Female Pattern baldness post-menapause
" Up to two-thirds of women experience hair loss after menopause "
This is a pretty obvious indicator as if a female is post menopause she is no longer ovulating therefore is infertile and cannot produce offspring.

Like skin both are also indicitive of old age and a lack of youth. The effectiveness of this may vary when considering the age your target audience of women so to speak.


LIPS

Now I guarantee I have seen this one a lot "more feminine lips are ideal" etc. but this simply isn't true as even thought they are a somewhat dimorphic this idea on this forum that "thin lips are a masculine trait" is just fucking retarded and I've im including it because ive seen it said many times.
Thin lips especially a thin upper lip are correlated with disorders such as down syndrome or fetal alcohol syndrome aka a developmental (or genetic) disorder.
View attachment 889121
Unironically kys if you think thin lips are a masculine trait, its a trait thats signals "I'm a deformed and abused dog that needs to be euthanized"

" Almost all the vertical profile measurements were greater in males than in females. The only variables with no gender differences were lower (Li-Sto) and upper vermilion heights"
"Men with lower 2D:4D tended to have more protrusive mandibles, noses, and lips. These facial features have been associated with more ‘masculine’ appearance (2,22,23), supporting the role of androgens"
"The results indicated a sex-effect, with females preferring fuller lips than males. Significant differences were also found between orthodontically treated subjects and untreated subjects, with untreated subjects preferring fuller lips"


Taking the info above into account and my subjective opinion would want good sized lips with good colour and fullness however, you wouldnt want huge cocksucker James Charles Tier lips that throw off the philtrum and chin balances of the lower third.
Imo something like a young Tom Welling from Smallville has a pretty good balance of these features along with guys like Vinnie the Hacker
View attachment 889127



Using examples to distinguish between Male Dimorphic features and features of Youth and health.


Danny Trejo
View attachment 889129


An Individual with very High male dimorphism but very low in Indicators of health and youth namely his skin and collagen

Jacob Sartorious
View attachment 889131
Coversely ranking very high on indicators of health such as good collagen, full thick head of hair, and good lips but severly lacking in male dimorphism giving him the babyfaced look


Ideally you want a good balance of both.
The importance of each may differ depending on age for example im sure some grannies would dig Danny Trejo and some middleschoolers would Sartorious but in regards to what is relavant to us for females in their late teens and early-mid twenties a pretty good mix of High indicators of health + youth and masculinity is needed for the broades overall appeal.

Good examples are as follows
View attachment 889023
View attachment 889024
View attachment 889147
View attachment 889148
View attachment 889154
Examples above are ideal
All have good collagen, a full head of hair, good lips yet are still very dimorphic.
Sometime these are called "Maesthetic or Robust prettyboy"
Maesthetic is an ok terminology but Robust prettyboy does not suit in my opinion as the denotion "prettyboy" gives the idea that the individual is not masculine/ is feminine in their features but as I've clarified that isn't necessarily the case.

Maesthetic = Masculine + Indicators of health/youth

Maesthetic =/= Masculine + some Feminine features


Thought id clear that out of the way


How to maximise on Features of youth and health?

I won't get into much detail because there are very detailed guides on this but essentially they consist around
1) Preserving male hair, stopping or reversing male pattern baldness + maximising appearance of hair density with things like minoxidil or finasteride if needed compounded with microneedling ideally
2) Maintain skin quality with a good skin care routine don't fall into the meme that "skincare is for women and gay people" your skin is literally your lifeline of youth minimise sun damage and try to get rid of any acne or scarring.
3) Not much you can do about lips, a quick looksmax tip I picked up from Effortless @Effortless was too exfoliate your lips to brigthen their colour and it works pretty well, other than that feed it moist and prevent cracks you can look into facial expansion devices but I don't know much about them.



KEY Male dimorphic features
(And what you can do)


Facial bones:

There is already so much information out on this one it pretty much speaks for itself that I won't spend too much time on it.
To sum it up:
View attachment 889093
Your ideal face should be as closest to the left as possible suiting to your phenotype of course
Quick notes
-Larger bigonial
-Deep set hunter eyes
- Larger browridge
-Larger nose
- Dense darker eyebrows
- Taller broder chin
-Larger more prominent cheekbones
- Thicker neck
- Straight hairline opposed to rounded.

Face theory is well covered both on this forum and in videos

Height.


Height also falls under the category of dimorphic qualities in the sense that men have more of it then women.
Height is inherently a masculine trait if you took an average faced 5'9 guy and made him 6'0 he would instantly become more masculine+attractive and have more success with women.

Women care far more about mens height than men care about womens and they want MORE of it than men



Being short as a man doesn't necessarily make you feminine per say but it detracts greatly from your masculinity to the point where even when you have other masculine traits a short height will overshadow other areas and you will be seen as overcompensating.
View attachment 889182
Case in point many people look down on him both figuratively and literally because hes 5'6 and he'll always be seen as a coping manlet
Meanwhile his 6'1 gigachad counterpart is respected and seen as a demigod

Height does not just effect your sex life it impedes on so many other aspects.

Swedish study showd shorter men had a 2x higher suicide rate (can’t remember what heights they based tall vs short off)
For men every 2inch increase in height had an average of a 9% reduction in suicide risk
6 foot is top 18% of male height however in a study among CEO’s it was roughly 50th percentile
Only 4% of the population is 6’2 and above however among CEO’s it’s 30%
An increase in height is correlated with greater reproductive success in males (water)
But it’s fine tho cos height doesn’t matter r-right?

"Shorter men have a twofold greater risk for suicide than taller men, according to a cohort study of more than a million men in this country.
For every five-centimeter (two-inch) increase in height, there was a 9% decrease in suicide risk, according to Patrik Magnusson, Ph.D., of Uppsala University and colleagues.
The association remained even after accounting for prenatal development and socioeconomic factors, the researchers reported in the July issue of American Journal of Psychiatry.

"Highly attractive people of both sexes earn at least 12% more than their less attractive coworkers. Read more at:
https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...ofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst"
"
Several studies over the years have shown that height and salary are positively correlated. This is true "especially for men, who earn 2.5% more per inch of additional height,"
It also suggested that a person who is 6 feet tall is likely to earn $166,000 more than someone who is 5 feet 5 inches tall, over a 30 year career."


A curvilinear effect of height on reproductive success in human males
.
" Human male height is associated with mate choice and intra-sexual competition, and therefore potentially with reproductive success "

I could go on but you get my point.
I want to stress the first bit though
"Swedish study showd shorter men had a 2x higher suicide rate"
"The association remained even after accounting for prenatal development and socioeconomic factors,"

People like to virtue signal amongst the mainstream about this but its clear cut as day it has nothing to do with "muh confidence" and everything to do with the physical trait itself
For every 100 tall men that committed suicide an EXCESS 100 short men did as well.
Imagine telling those short people that their suicides' were because of shit that was "in their heads" or a "confidence issue"
Its genuinely asinine.

I think the most detailed breakdown of height in dating was made by Deleted member 7866 @youngmaxxing in this thread
and there is not really much I can add to it so check it out

To give you an Idea:
"
90% of women will reject a man who is 5'4" based solely on his height.
65% of women will reject a man who is 5'7" based solely on his height.
50% of women will reject a man who is 5'8" based solely on his height.
14% of women will reject a man who is 5'10" based solely on his height.
1.5% of women will reject a man who is 6' based solely on his height.
Past 6'2", women begin to increase rejections of men for being too tall.
30% of women believe there is no such thing as a man being "too tall."
Over 94% of women will reject a man solely for him being too short. "

Women want to feel smaller than a man and without a solid excess of height over her she simply will not feel that way
Case in point:
Just take a look at the comments the amount of blackpill is absolutely insane women are creaming over him
View attachment 889195
Trust me there is a lot more
Let me remind you
That even despite the fact that the comment section of this Youtube video is primarily Leftists they still act in this primal way. The same people that virtue signal on instagram etc. that "everyone is beautiful, looks are subjective, there is someone out there for everyone, #bodypositivity" behave in raw female sexual desire when they see male dominance
Women absolutely LOVE it when men MOG the fuck out of other men
View attachment 889196
Despite being full social leftists they behave like this because it is hardwired human nature, keep coping with "muh social contruct" this is an innately dimorphic trait that is attractive for obvious reasons.




Hair

Ive already gone over hair loss and thinning so I will center this more around colour and style.
And when I say hair I am not only referring to head hair but overall in men this time.
Once again referring to the dimorphism chart
View attachment 889093
Males Have thicker more dense eyebrows indicating virility
.

If you have light eyebrows dye it dark or use latisse ASAP if you don't already have a thick pair of eyebrows.
Eyebrows can greatly increase the appearance of the eye area by increasing percived hooding and PFL
I can use myself as an extreme example to represent this:



Next on to hair COLOUR:

Women prefer darker hair on men
A very good thread summing up all the points on this by D @6ft5manlet doesn't leave much room for me to say anything else it's pretty self explanatory.

View attachment 889220




Next we can go onto Facial hair.

Once again facial hair is something that is sexually dimorphic however the ideal length may vary person to person. If you have a weak jaw you may need more to beardfraud, if you have a strong jaw, consider clean shaven or a minimal but heavy stubble should be maintained and contoured to complement the angularity of the jaw itself

Watch from 6:25


Body Hair.

A bit more complicated than the priot I cant find to much that is definitive this may be a case by case basis and more of a subjective taste among women.
Just anecdotally if you are lean and shredded in my personal experience from being a hair indian bodyhair can mask vascularity and definition so consider trimming it or shaving it off if so, if you are on the softer end body hair might act as a positive contributing to the "Large and Manly" look
Michelle Marrone is an example of the latter whereas Connor Murphy is an example of the former


Again just cater towards your own physique.
As for studies I found this: https://academic.oup.com/beheco/article/21/2/419/322906


Not very concrete but hairyness seems to be more on the subjective side and should be considered by an individual basis.




Muscles

Homo fags are going to debate a lot on this but it is pretty clear.
Dimorphism does not just begin and end in the face, like height muscles (and frame) also fall under this category.

If you want the BROADEST appeal for women in their late teens-mid twenties the answer is simple.
Muscles are a strong positive in the broadest sense YES there are SOME women that may prefer skinny guys but for the best overall appeal which will lead to by far the greatest success with women purely based on a game of probability it is in your best interest to have a good amount of musculature.


You get the point

.



This study proves my point more

Not a single woman amongst 160 preferred physically weaker men

This study used an eyetracker tracking womens eye movements on mens bodies

Pretty good video on it
Women voted via poll




According to eyetracking data women seem to look at abs quite a lot so its safe to say train them abs and always maintain a visible 6 pack

Muscle building is quite dependant on male testosterone for obvious reasons.
Certain muscle groups have a high androgen affinity towards testosterone


Traps and thus the sternoclamastoid and neck have a high androgen affinity
View attachment 889093
Explains why a thicker neck is observed here as a dimorphic trait

Imo neck curls with light weight 3x20 sets 3x per week yeild decent results

The neckpill is well documented and should never be underestimated


IMO a push/pull/legs has given me the best results.
Each muscle group should be trained at least 2x per week to maximise muscle protein synthesis and leave little room for catabolism.

Pretty easy to digest video for newbies:


A more advanced video with a respected researcher:

Census is at least train a muscle 2x per week there is not much benefit going more than 2x per week but 1x per week you are undercutting gains.










Go more into detail with the collagen part..
 
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SubhumanCurrycel said:
been reading a lot of differing opinions on topics such as masc vs pretty boy, Feminine features vs Masculine features and more importantly what is sexual dimorphism why is it important, how important is it and so forth.

To Start it off
There seems to be a lot of confusion on this topic too, people will say guys like Vinnie the Hacker or Young Henry Cavil have ideal appeal because they are "masculine with feminine features"
View attachment 889023
View attachment 889024
But this is simply not true and I will break down why





What is Sexual Dimorphism?

Copypasting straight from google I get this:
" Sexual dimorphism is the condition where the two sexes of the same species exhibit different characteristics beyond the differences in their sexual organs.
Pretty self explanatory as our gonads produce androgenic hormones that have an especially significant effect on our physcical appearance and give indicators of our "genetic package" and develop during and after puberty signalling fertility.

Since you are here I assume you haven't fallen for the trap of "women aren't visual like men" or "men aren't expected to be goodlooking like women are"
We all know this is nonsense and when you look at other species the opposite if anything is true
View attachment 889045
This Continues even for mammals
View attachment 889047
And even for our Great Ape Cousins
View attachment 889048

Males in mammalian species that successfully procure many mates and are higher in the heirarchy often exhbit more sexual dimorphism than the average in the group
For example
Elephant Seals:
" A good example of intrasexual selection, in which males fight for dominance over a harem of females "
The Deer I posted above interact in which the males will ram their antlers into one another (sexually dimorphic trait) and those that win these tests have access to the most females.

Same goes for the Mountain Bison:
View attachment 889055
In fact its even more extreme for them. The male Bison are hyper aggressive so they essentially outcast themselves from the females of their species where year round they will but heads. Once Breeding season comes along the most dominant male in the heirarchy (directly associated with their physical dimorphism and dominance) will leave the male group and copulate with all the fertile females.

The mammalian structure of sexual and natural selection dynamics results in

Why do Mammals behave this way?

Some of you may be wondering this
Why is it this way? Why does it have to be this way? This is Unfair!

There are many ways to break this down firstly lets think of it in term of raw Sexual economics
Paraphrasing from a FaceandLMS video:
"A man produces more sperm in one day than a woman produces in her life, the female's egg is far more valuable than the sperm, millions of sperm will rush to the same egg real life is analagous to that"

Thats one way to put it.
But personally I think it Makes more sense to look at it through an action/reaction, cost effect lens:

Think of a scenario

A long time ago say 100'000 years ago two archiac humans one male and one female (cave Adam and Eve lol) find themselves isolated together in a cave for some time etc.
Just by virtue of this situation both have sex, not just once but multiple times throughout days, weeks maybe even months.
As a result of this they are likely to have sex during the females ovulation cycle and thus become pregnant

All is said and done right?
No not really
Lets take a detailed breakdown of the pros and Cons of each party involved as like every action there is a consequence and the consequences are not equally distributed between the sexes.

Male:
Pros: Passes on his DNA survival of his genetic material
Cons: Virtually none other than losing sperm

Female:
Pros: Like the male she passes on her DNA
Cons: None immediately BUT, in approximately a weeks time she will begin to feel sick and begin vommiting, shes pregnant and the initial feotus releases certain waste that make her sick, that is just the beginning,for the next 9 months she will have a vulnerable livign organism growing inside her
There are no maternity leaves in mother nature she is vulnerable to predators killing her, other humans killing her, if she gets hurt and the baby dies the baby will literally necrose inside her and kill her organs.
Her immune system is compromised and her need for nutrition and resources incrases to support the baby.
Once her pregnancy ends it doesn't stop there
An extremely common cause of death among women pre medical era was childbirth often due to blood loss.
Now she must harbour an infant and nurse it to a state of independence once again a very draining and cost heavy process.




Hence given this massive cost/benefit difference Women must select far more harshly on Traits:
Also imortant to note:
Mother nature has also made it that men have a higher sex drive than women meaning men are more willing to fuck and women are more willing to be more picky, sexual drive is like hunger and a hungry man will eat more + settle for less while a satiated will not eat as much and only eat when the quality is good


Looks:
Looks are an indicator of your genetic quality, if she is going to go through all that trouble she must insure the genetic material in the form of the sperm she will be recieving is of a high quality as to ensure that the offspring are genetically fit individuals themselves with a higher chance of survival, it is pretty self explanatory

Status:
Deny it all you want but humans are inherently a social species, heirarchies are as natural as taking a shit despite what leftists will tell you, they are universal to all great apes and virtually all mammals, status matters because a high status male is higher in the heirarchy they have more access to food, resources, power (and security) and as a consequence mates as they are the most secure option to breed with
Again as stated before a lot of the heirarchical behaviours in animals
Heirarchical behaviour is basic shit I learnt in highschool biology under the topic of Animal Behaviour, Don't be so naive to think this does not apply to you.

Resources
I specifically say resources as this changes over time but at our current age it seems as if its main mediator is money etc and once upon a time it was based on the physical labour and merit of a man. The more resources a man has the more likely he is to provide and protect the female during her pregnancy and throughout the time she raises her infants hence she makes an educated choice on which man will give her that security?

How do these factors interact with each other?
In the past I think they would've interacted more with each other due to the fact that virtually all acquirement of resources was based on physical merit etc. and money kind of changes that but the links still apply
A good looking male will tend to have a higher status and more opportunity to acquire resources
We observe this as the Hailo effect all of you are probably familar with where better looking people will be treated better even in corporate settings and so on.

" good-looking people make about 12% more money than less appealing folks, and that attractive real-estate brokers bring in more money than their less attractive peers."
.







Sexual Dimorphism vs Indicators of Youth and Health)

I believe this is something fundamental that some users on this forum fail to understand.
Users often confuse indicators of youth with Feminine features



Sexual dimorphism is almost always a positive.
Yes there are certain extremes in certain cases where too much dimorphism is present but this really isnt an issue for most and a lot of times it is indicitive of an underlying hormal regulation issue like pic related:
View attachment 889034
Being a clinically recognized medical condition/abnormality gives sense as to why said trait is not seen as attractive as it indicates bad health/genetics unfit for survival.



What is the distinction between the two then?

It's pretty clear

Indicators of Youth and Health are favoured in BOTH Sexes where as a dimorphic trait (male or female) is only favourable in ONE

This idea that certain feminine features look good on men is just dumb as a feminine feature is the antithesis of a male feature hence making the face less dimorphic and reducing its attractiveness

View attachment 889093

This is taking a caucasian face and changing the soft features such as hair minimically whilst emulating the dimorphic features
In the middle is AND meaning androgynous this is OBJECTIVELY the worst place to be in as an adult male or female as it has 0 dimorphic qualities on either side its features are an inbetween blend across the board, something you would expect from a prepubescent child, an individual with a chromosomal disorder such as intersex (Kleinfelters) or a transexual.
Many people confuse feminine/androgynous traits with indicators of Health which I'll explain later.

On the far left is closest for a male face (DOM) at least for a caucasian male, all his features from the wider bigonial, the follow cheeks, the bigger nose the wider chin, the more deepset eyes, the "boxxed off" hairline, and strong cheekbones are on the masculine side.

ANY feature you would make more "feminine" on the far left would lower his sexual attractiveness objectively
And no forward growth/not being recessed isnt dimorphic but the bone mass and ideal ratios are.

Indicators of Youth and Health are far different

They are often applicable universally across both sexes, youth is not to be confused with prepubescent features rather features indicating that the individual has signs of good health and mininmal aging given they are post puberty,

What is an example of this?

Collagen:
I often see how having good skin and collagen is seen as a "prettyboy" feature (hinting its not masculine), This is simply not true. Either you've been looking at too many roidheads with piss poor reptialian skin or fell for the meme that wanting to have good skin as a man is "gay and feminine:
View attachment 889099
View attachment 889024


Translates to good health with minimal biological aging and likely a good diet + skin genetics.

" Changes in collagen and elastic fibers are followed by the appearance of rhytides, sagging of skin, and loss of elasticity (Figure d). But diet, trough ingestion of sugar, can accelerate these signs of aging "
" "looking old for your age" is an indicator of poor health. The concept of perceived age has been shown to be predictive of mortality in elderly individuals (5, 6) and is associated with a higher risk of both morbidity and mortality (7). "
" Acute exposure to UV is associated with sunburn, DNA modifications, and immune suppression, but chronic, long-term exposure can lead to premature skin aging (photoaging) and skin cancer "


Just a short summary but signs of aging also linked with a poor diet, an accurate indicator of health predictive of an early death, also indicates skin damage and proclibity towards cancer.

This is not a feminine feature nor is it a masculine one it is seperate and is an indicator of health something that is beneficial and preferable between BOTH sexes and has very consistent traits that predict the health of the individual be that male or female and is totally unrelated to the sexual differentiation produced by the gonads.

HAIR QUALITY.
(Inb4 I rope)
I specify hair quality not just hair as there are dimorphic preferences in hair regarding to colour and this only refers to scalp hair not facial hair.

Clear indication is deficincies:
B vitamins that are crucial for cell function have been shown to be associated with hair loss/thinning along with folate and iron.
It can also be indicitive of a thyroid issue.
Many autoimmune diseases such as alopecia arieta target and kill hairfollicles this to an observer may indicate a malfunctioning immune system hence is seen as a biological negative regarding the genetic quality of the individual


Male and female pattern baldness:
Both are indicitive of a hormonal issue
Male pattern baldness is caused by an excess of DHT it may or may not signal a problem with testosterone (wether it be too little or too much)
.
The link is still unclear but:
"Research is showing men with male pattern baldness have an increased risk of developing heart disease and prostate cancer. Research is showing men with male pattern baldness have an increased risk of developing heart disease and prostate"

Females can also develop Female Pattern baldness post-menapause
" Up to two-thirds of women experience hair loss after menopause "
This is a pretty obvious indicator as if a female is post menopause she is no longer ovulating therefore is infertile and cannot produce offspring.

Like skin both are also indicitive of old age and a lack of youth. The effectiveness of this may vary when considering the age your target audience of women so to speak.


LIPS

Now I guarantee I have seen this one a lot "more feminine lips are ideal" etc. but this simply isn't true as even thought they are a somewhat dimorphic this idea on this forum that "thin lips are a masculine trait" is just fucking retarded and I've im including it because ive seen it said many times.
Thin lips especially a thin upper lip are correlated with disorders such as down syndrome or fetal alcohol syndrome aka a developmental (or genetic) disorder.
View attachment 889121
Unironically kys if you think thin lips are a masculine trait, its a trait thats signals "I'm a deformed and abused dog that needs to be euthanized"

" Almost all the vertical profile measurements were greater in males than in females. The only variables with no gender differences were lower (Li-Sto) and upper vermilion heights"
"Men with lower 2D:4D tended to have more protrusive mandibles, noses, and lips. These facial features have been associated with more ‘masculine’ appearance (2,22,23), supporting the role of androgens"
"The results indicated a sex-effect, with females preferring fuller lips than males. Significant differences were also found between orthodontically treated subjects and untreated subjects, with untreated subjects preferring fuller lips"


Taking the info above into account and my subjective opinion would want good sized lips with good colour and fullness however, you wouldnt want huge cocksucker James Charles Tier lips that throw off the philtrum and chin balances of the lower third.
Imo something like a young Tom Welling from Smallville has a pretty good balance of these features along with guys like Vinnie the Hacker
View attachment 889127



Using examples to distinguish between Male Dimorphic features and features of Youth and health.


Danny Trejo
View attachment 889129


An Individual with very High male dimorphism but very low in Indicators of health and youth namely his skin and collagen

Jacob Sartorious
View attachment 889131
Coversely ranking very high on indicators of health such as good collagen, full thick head of hair, and good lips but severly lacking in male dimorphism giving him the babyfaced look


Ideally you want a good balance of both.
The importance of each may differ depending on age for example im sure some grannies would dig Danny Trejo and some middleschoolers would Sartorious but in regards to what is relavant to us for females in their late teens and early-mid twenties a pretty good mix of High indicators of health + youth and masculinity is needed for the broades overall appeal.

Good examples are as follows
View attachment 889023
View attachment 889024
View attachment 889147
View attachment 889148
View attachment 889154
Examples above are ideal
All have good collagen, a full head of hair, good lips yet are still very dimorphic.
Sometime these are called "Maesthetic or Robust prettyboy"
Maesthetic is an ok terminology but Robust prettyboy does not suit in my opinion as the denotion "prettyboy" gives the idea that the individual is not masculine/ is feminine in their features but as I've clarified that isn't necessarily the case.

Maesthetic = Masculine + Indicators of health/youth

Maesthetic =/= Masculine + some Feminine features


Thought id clear that out of the way


How to maximise on Features of youth and health?

I won't get into much detail because there are very detailed guides on this but essentially they consist around
1) Preserving male hair, stopping or reversing male pattern baldness + maximising appearance of hair density with things like minoxidil or finasteride if needed compounded with microneedling ideally
2) Maintain skin quality with a good skin care routine don't fall into the meme that "skincare is for women and gay people" your skin is literally your lifeline of youth minimise sun damage and try to get rid of any acne or scarring.
3) Not much you can do about lips, a quick looksmax tip I picked up from Effortless @Effortless was too exfoliate your lips to brigthen their colour and it works pretty well, other than that feed it moist and prevent cracks you can look into facial expansion devices but I don't know much about them.



KEY Male dimorphic features
(And what you can do)


Facial bones:

There is already so much information out on this one it pretty much speaks for itself that I won't spend too much time on it.
To sum it up:
View attachment 889093
Your ideal face should be as closest to the left as possible suiting to your phenotype of course
Quick notes
-Larger bigonial
-Deep set hunter eyes
- Larger browridge
-Larger nose
- Dense darker eyebrows
- Taller broder chin
-Larger more prominent cheekbones
- Thicker neck
- Straight hairline opposed to rounded.

Face theory is well covered both on this forum and in videos

Height.


Height also falls under the category of dimorphic qualities in the sense that men have more of it then women.
Height is inherently a masculine trait if you took an average faced 5'9 guy and made him 6'0 he would instantly become more masculine+attractive and have more success with women.

Women care far more about mens height than men care about womens and they want MORE of it than men



Being short as a man doesn't necessarily make you feminine per say but it detracts greatly from your masculinity to the point where even when you have other masculine traits a short height will overshadow other areas and you will be seen as overcompensating.
View attachment 889182
Case in point many people look down on him both figuratively and literally because hes 5'6 and he'll always be seen as a coping manlet
Meanwhile his 6'1 gigachad counterpart is respected and seen as a demigod

Height does not just effect your sex life it impedes on so many other aspects.

Swedish study showd shorter men had a 2x higher suicide rate (can’t remember what heights they based tall vs short off)
For men every 2inch increase in height had an average of a 9% reduction in suicide risk
6 foot is top 18% of male height however in a study among CEO’s it was roughly 50th percentile
Only 4% of the population is 6’2 and above however among CEO’s it’s 30%
An increase in height is correlated with greater reproductive success in males (water)
But it’s fine tho cos height doesn’t matter r-right?

"Shorter men have a twofold greater risk for suicide than taller men, according to a cohort study of more than a million men in this country.
For every five-centimeter (two-inch) increase in height, there was a 9% decrease in suicide risk, according to Patrik Magnusson, Ph.D., of Uppsala University and colleagues.
The association remained even after accounting for prenatal development and socioeconomic factors, the researchers reported in the July issue of American Journal of Psychiatry.

"Highly attractive people of both sexes earn at least 12% more than their less attractive coworkers. Read more at:
https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...ofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst"
"
Several studies over the years have shown that height and salary are positively correlated. This is true "especially for men, who earn 2.5% more per inch of additional height,"
It also suggested that a person who is 6 feet tall is likely to earn $166,000 more than someone who is 5 feet 5 inches tall, over a 30 year career."


A curvilinear effect of height on reproductive success in human males
.
" Human male height is associated with mate choice and intra-sexual competition, and therefore potentially with reproductive success "

I could go on but you get my point.
I want to stress the first bit though
"Swedish study showd shorter men had a 2x higher suicide rate"
"The association remained even after accounting for prenatal development and socioeconomic factors,"

People like to virtue signal amongst the mainstream about this but its clear cut as day it has nothing to do with "muh confidence" and everything to do with the physical trait itself
For every 100 tall men that committed suicide an EXCESS 100 short men did as well.
Imagine telling those short people that their suicides' were because of shit that was "in their heads" or a "confidence issue"
Its genuinely asinine.

I think the most detailed breakdown of height in dating was made by Deleted member 7866 @youngmaxxing in this thread
and there is not really much I can add to it so check it out

To give you an Idea:
"
90% of women will reject a man who is 5'4" based solely on his height.
65% of women will reject a man who is 5'7" based solely on his height.
50% of women will reject a man who is 5'8" based solely on his height.
14% of women will reject a man who is 5'10" based solely on his height.
1.5% of women will reject a man who is 6' based solely on his height.
Past 6'2", women begin to increase rejections of men for being too tall.
30% of women believe there is no such thing as a man being "too tall."
Over 94% of women will reject a man solely for him being too short. "

Women want to feel smaller than a man and without a solid excess of height over her she simply will not feel that way
Case in point:
Just take a look at the comments the amount of blackpill is absolutely insane women are creaming over him
View attachment 889195
Trust me there is a lot more
Let me remind you
That even despite the fact that the comment section of this Youtube video is primarily Leftists they still act in this primal way. The same people that virtue signal on instagram etc. that "everyone is beautiful, looks are subjective, there is someone out there for everyone, #bodypositivity" behave in raw female sexual desire when they see male dominance
Women absolutely LOVE it when men MOG the fuck out of other men
View attachment 889196
Despite being full social leftists they behave like this because it is hardwired human nature, keep coping with "muh social contruct" this is an innately dimorphic trait that is attractive for obvious reasons.




Hair

Ive already gone over hair loss and thinning so I will center this more around colour and style.
And when I say hair I am not only referring to head hair but overall in men this time.
Once again referring to the dimorphism chart
View attachment 889093
Males Have thicker more dense eyebrows indicating virility
.

If you have light eyebrows dye it dark or use latisse ASAP if you don't already have a thick pair of eyebrows.
Eyebrows can greatly increase the appearance of the eye area by increasing percived hooding and PFL
I can use myself as an extreme example to represent this:



Next on to hair COLOUR:

Women prefer darker hair on men
A very good thread summing up all the points on this by D @6ft5manlet doesn't leave much room for me to say anything else it's pretty self explanatory.

View attachment 889220




Next we can go onto Facial hair.

Once again facial hair is something that is sexually dimorphic however the ideal length may vary person to person. If you have a weak jaw you may need more to beardfraud, if you have a strong jaw, consider clean shaven or a minimal but heavy stubble should be maintained and contoured to complement the angularity of the jaw itself

Watch from 6:25


Body Hair.

A bit more complicated than the priot I cant find to much that is definitive this may be a case by case basis and more of a subjective taste among women.
Just anecdotally if you are lean and shredded in my personal experience from being a hair indian bodyhair can mask vascularity and definition so consider trimming it or shaving it off if so, if you are on the softer end body hair might act as a positive contributing to the "Large and Manly" look
Michelle Marrone is an example of the latter whereas Connor Murphy is an example of the former


Again just cater towards your own physique.
As for studies I found this: https://academic.oup.com/beheco/article/21/2/419/322906


Not very concrete but hairyness seems to be more on the subjective side and should be considered by an individual basis.




Muscles

Homo fags are going to debate a lot on this but it is pretty clear.
Dimorphism does not just begin and end in the face, like height muscles (and frame) also fall under this category.

If you want the BROADEST appeal for women in their late teens-mid twenties the answer is simple.
Muscles are a strong positive in the broadest sense YES there are SOME women that may prefer skinny guys but for the best overall appeal which will lead to by far the greatest success with women purely based on a game of probability it is in your best interest to have a good amount of musculature.


You get the point

.



This study proves my point more

Not a single woman amongst 160 preferred physically weaker men

This study used an eyetracker tracking womens eye movements on mens bodies

Pretty good video on it
Women voted via poll




According to eyetracking data women seem to look at abs quite a lot so its safe to say train them abs and always maintain a visible 6 pack

Muscle building is quite dependant on male testosterone for obvious reasons.
Certain muscle groups have a high androgen affinity towards testosterone


Traps and thus the sternoclamastoid and neck have a high androgen affinity
View attachment 889093
Explains why a thicker neck is observed here as a dimorphic trait

Imo neck curls with light weight 3x20 sets 3x per week yeild decent results

The neckpill is well documented and should never be underestimated


IMO a push/pull/legs has given me the best results.
Each muscle group should be trained at least 2x per week to maximise muscle protein synthesis and leave little room for catabolism.

Pretty easy to digest video for newbies:


A more advanced video with a respected researcher:

Census is at least train a muscle 2x per week there is not much benefit going more than 2x per week but 1x per week you are undercutting gains.










This is terrible, but I laughed my ass off when you were shit talking people with Down syndrome and FAS.
 
runescapeaddict1996

runescapeaddict1996

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SubhumanCurrycel said:
been reading a lot of differing opinions on topics such as masc vs pretty boy, Feminine features vs Masculine features and more importantly what is sexual dimorphism why is it important, how important is it and so forth.

To Start it off
There seems to be a lot of confusion on this topic too, people will say guys like Vinnie the Hacker or Young Henry Cavil have ideal appeal because they are "masculine with feminine features"
View attachment 889023
View attachment 889024
But this is simply not true and I will break down why





What is Sexual Dimorphism?

Copypasting straight from google I get this:
" Sexual dimorphism is the condition where the two sexes of the same species exhibit different characteristics beyond the differences in their sexual organs.
Pretty self explanatory as our gonads produce androgenic hormones that have an especially significant effect on our physcical appearance and give indicators of our "genetic package" and develop during and after puberty signalling fertility.

Since you are here I assume you haven't fallen for the trap of "women aren't visual like men" or "men aren't expected to be goodlooking like women are"
We all know this is nonsense and when you look at other species the opposite if anything is true
View attachment 889045
This Continues even for mammals
View attachment 889047
And even for our Great Ape Cousins
View attachment 889048

Males in mammalian species that successfully procure many mates and are higher in the heirarchy often exhbit more sexual dimorphism than the average in the group
For example
Elephant Seals:
" A good example of intrasexual selection, in which males fight for dominance over a harem of females "
The Deer I posted above interact in which the males will ram their antlers into one another (sexually dimorphic trait) and those that win these tests have access to the most females.

Same goes for the Mountain Bison:
View attachment 889055
In fact its even more extreme for them. The male Bison are hyper aggressive so they essentially outcast themselves from the females of their species where year round they will but heads. Once Breeding season comes along the most dominant male in the heirarchy (directly associated with their physical dimorphism and dominance) will leave the male group and copulate with all the fertile females.

The mammalian structure of sexual and natural selection dynamics results in

Why do Mammals behave this way?

Some of you may be wondering this
Why is it this way? Why does it have to be this way? This is Unfair!

There are many ways to break this down firstly lets think of it in term of raw Sexual economics
Paraphrasing from a FaceandLMS video:
"A man produces more sperm in one day than a woman produces in her life, the female's egg is far more valuable than the sperm, millions of sperm will rush to the same egg real life is analagous to that"

Thats one way to put it.
But personally I think it Makes more sense to look at it through an action/reaction, cost effect lens:

Think of a scenario

A long time ago say 100'000 years ago two archiac humans one male and one female (cave Adam and Eve lol) find themselves isolated together in a cave for some time etc.
Just by virtue of this situation both have sex, not just once but multiple times throughout days, weeks maybe even months.
As a result of this they are likely to have sex during the females ovulation cycle and thus become pregnant

All is said and done right?
No not really
Lets take a detailed breakdown of the pros and Cons of each party involved as like every action there is a consequence and the consequences are not equally distributed between the sexes.

Male:
Pros: Passes on his DNA survival of his genetic material
Cons: Virtually none other than losing sperm

Female:
Pros: Like the male she passes on her DNA
Cons: None immediately BUT, in approximately a weeks time she will begin to feel sick and begin vommiting, shes pregnant and the initial feotus releases certain waste that make her sick, that is just the beginning,for the next 9 months she will have a vulnerable livign organism growing inside her
There are no maternity leaves in mother nature she is vulnerable to predators killing her, other humans killing her, if she gets hurt and the baby dies the baby will literally necrose inside her and kill her organs.
Her immune system is compromised and her need for nutrition and resources incrases to support the baby.
Once her pregnancy ends it doesn't stop there
An extremely common cause of death among women pre medical era was childbirth often due to blood loss.
Now she must harbour an infant and nurse it to a state of independence once again a very draining and cost heavy process.




Hence given this massive cost/benefit difference Women must select far more harshly on Traits:
Also imortant to note:
Mother nature has also made it that men have a higher sex drive than women meaning men are more willing to fuck and women are more willing to be more picky, sexual drive is like hunger and a hungry man will eat more + settle for less while a satiated will not eat as much and only eat when the quality is good


Looks:
Looks are an indicator of your genetic quality, if she is going to go through all that trouble she must insure the genetic material in the form of the sperm she will be recieving is of a high quality as to ensure that the offspring are genetically fit individuals themselves with a higher chance of survival, it is pretty self explanatory

Status:
Deny it all you want but humans are inherently a social species, heirarchies are as natural as taking a shit despite what leftists will tell you, they are universal to all great apes and virtually all mammals, status matters because a high status male is higher in the heirarchy they have more access to food, resources, power (and security) and as a consequence mates as they are the most secure option to breed with
Again as stated before a lot of the heirarchical behaviours in animals
Heirarchical behaviour is basic shit I learnt in highschool biology under the topic of Animal Behaviour, Don't be so naive to think this does not apply to you.

Resources
I specifically say resources as this changes over time but at our current age it seems as if its main mediator is money etc and once upon a time it was based on the physical labour and merit of a man. The more resources a man has the more likely he is to provide and protect the female during her pregnancy and throughout the time she raises her infants hence she makes an educated choice on which man will give her that security?

How do these factors interact with each other?
In the past I think they would've interacted more with each other due to the fact that virtually all acquirement of resources was based on physical merit etc. and money kind of changes that but the links still apply
A good looking male will tend to have a higher status and more opportunity to acquire resources
We observe this as the Hailo effect all of you are probably familar with where better looking people will be treated better even in corporate settings and so on.

" good-looking people make about 12% more money than less appealing folks, and that attractive real-estate brokers bring in more money than their less attractive peers."
.







Sexual Dimorphism vs Indicators of Youth and Health)

I believe this is something fundamental that some users on this forum fail to understand.
Users often confuse indicators of youth with Feminine features



Sexual dimorphism is almost always a positive.
Yes there are certain extremes in certain cases where too much dimorphism is present but this really isnt an issue for most and a lot of times it is indicitive of an underlying hormal regulation issue like pic related:
View attachment 889034
Being a clinically recognized medical condition/abnormality gives sense as to why said trait is not seen as attractive as it indicates bad health/genetics unfit for survival.



What is the distinction between the two then?

It's pretty clear

Indicators of Youth and Health are favoured in BOTH Sexes where as a dimorphic trait (male or female) is only favourable in ONE

This idea that certain feminine features look good on men is just dumb as a feminine feature is the antithesis of a male feature hence making the face less dimorphic and reducing its attractiveness

View attachment 889093

This is taking a caucasian face and changing the soft features such as hair minimically whilst emulating the dimorphic features
In the middle is AND meaning androgynous this is OBJECTIVELY the worst place to be in as an adult male or female as it has 0 dimorphic qualities on either side its features are an inbetween blend across the board, something you would expect from a prepubescent child, an individual with a chromosomal disorder such as intersex (Kleinfelters) or a transexual.
Many people confuse feminine/androgynous traits with indicators of Health which I'll explain later.

On the far left is closest for a male face (DOM) at least for a caucasian male, all his features from the wider bigonial, the follow cheeks, the bigger nose the wider chin, the more deepset eyes, the "boxxed off" hairline, and strong cheekbones are on the masculine side.

ANY feature you would make more "feminine" on the far left would lower his sexual attractiveness objectively
And no forward growth/not being recessed isnt dimorphic but the bone mass and ideal ratios are.

Indicators of Youth and Health are far different

They are often applicable universally across both sexes, youth is not to be confused with prepubescent features rather features indicating that the individual has signs of good health and mininmal aging given they are post puberty,

What is an example of this?

Collagen:
I often see how having good skin and collagen is seen as a "prettyboy" feature (hinting its not masculine), This is simply not true. Either you've been looking at too many roidheads with piss poor reptialian skin or fell for the meme that wanting to have good skin as a man is "gay and feminine:
View attachment 889099
View attachment 889024


Translates to good health with minimal biological aging and likely a good diet + skin genetics.

" Changes in collagen and elastic fibers are followed by the appearance of rhytides, sagging of skin, and loss of elasticity (Figure d). But diet, trough ingestion of sugar, can accelerate these signs of aging "
" "looking old for your age" is an indicator of poor health. The concept of perceived age has been shown to be predictive of mortality in elderly individuals (5, 6) and is associated with a higher risk of both morbidity and mortality (7). "
" Acute exposure to UV is associated with sunburn, DNA modifications, and immune suppression, but chronic, long-term exposure can lead to premature skin aging (photoaging) and skin cancer "


Just a short summary but signs of aging also linked with a poor diet, an accurate indicator of health predictive of an early death, also indicates skin damage and proclibity towards cancer.

This is not a feminine feature nor is it a masculine one it is seperate and is an indicator of health something that is beneficial and preferable between BOTH sexes and has very consistent traits that predict the health of the individual be that male or female and is totally unrelated to the sexual differentiation produced by the gonads.

HAIR QUALITY.
(Inb4 I rope)
I specify hair quality not just hair as there are dimorphic preferences in hair regarding to colour and this only refers to scalp hair not facial hair.

Clear indication is deficincies:
B vitamins that are crucial for cell function have been shown to be associated with hair loss/thinning along with folate and iron.
It can also be indicitive of a thyroid issue.
Many autoimmune diseases such as alopecia arieta target and kill hairfollicles this to an observer may indicate a malfunctioning immune system hence is seen as a biological negative regarding the genetic quality of the individual


Male and female pattern baldness:
Both are indicitive of a hormonal issue
Male pattern baldness is caused by an excess of DHT it may or may not signal a problem with testosterone (wether it be too little or too much)
.
The link is still unclear but:
"Research is showing men with male pattern baldness have an increased risk of developing heart disease and prostate cancer. Research is showing men with male pattern baldness have an increased risk of developing heart disease and prostate"

Females can also develop Female Pattern baldness post-menapause
" Up to two-thirds of women experience hair loss after menopause "
This is a pretty obvious indicator as if a female is post menopause she is no longer ovulating therefore is infertile and cannot produce offspring.

Like skin both are also indicitive of old age and a lack of youth. The effectiveness of this may vary when considering the age your target audience of women so to speak.


LIPS

Now I guarantee I have seen this one a lot "more feminine lips are ideal" etc. but this simply isn't true as even thought they are a somewhat dimorphic this idea on this forum that "thin lips are a masculine trait" is just fucking retarded and I've im including it because ive seen it said many times.
Thin lips especially a thin upper lip are correlated with disorders such as down syndrome or fetal alcohol syndrome aka a developmental (or genetic) disorder.
View attachment 889121
Unironically kys if you think thin lips are a masculine trait, its a trait thats signals "I'm a deformed and abused dog that needs to be euthanized"

" Almost all the vertical profile measurements were greater in males than in females. The only variables with no gender differences were lower (Li-Sto) and upper vermilion heights"
"Men with lower 2D:4D tended to have more protrusive mandibles, noses, and lips. These facial features have been associated with more ‘masculine’ appearance (2,22,23), supporting the role of androgens"
"The results indicated a sex-effect, with females preferring fuller lips than males. Significant differences were also found between orthodontically treated subjects and untreated subjects, with untreated subjects preferring fuller lips"


Taking the info above into account and my subjective opinion would want good sized lips with good colour and fullness however, you wouldnt want huge cocksucker James Charles Tier lips that throw off the philtrum and chin balances of the lower third.
Imo something like a young Tom Welling from Smallville has a pretty good balance of these features along with guys like Vinnie the Hacker
View attachment 889127



Using examples to distinguish between Male Dimorphic features and features of Youth and health.


Danny Trejo
View attachment 889129


An Individual with very High male dimorphism but very low in Indicators of health and youth namely his skin and collagen

Jacob Sartorious
View attachment 889131
Coversely ranking very high on indicators of health such as good collagen, full thick head of hair, and good lips but severly lacking in male dimorphism giving him the babyfaced look


Ideally you want a good balance of both.
The importance of each may differ depending on age for example im sure some grannies would dig Danny Trejo and some middleschoolers would Sartorious but in regards to what is relavant to us for females in their late teens and early-mid twenties a pretty good mix of High indicators of health + youth and masculinity is needed for the broades overall appeal.

Good examples are as follows
View attachment 889023
View attachment 889024
View attachment 889147
View attachment 889148
View attachment 889154
Examples above are ideal
All have good collagen, a full head of hair, good lips yet are still very dimorphic.
Sometime these are called "Maesthetic or Robust prettyboy"
Maesthetic is an ok terminology but Robust prettyboy does not suit in my opinion as the denotion "prettyboy" gives the idea that the individual is not masculine/ is feminine in their features but as I've clarified that isn't necessarily the case.

Maesthetic = Masculine + Indicators of health/youth

Maesthetic =/= Masculine + some Feminine features


Thought id clear that out of the way


How to maximise on Features of youth and health?

I won't get into much detail because there are very detailed guides on this but essentially they consist around
1) Preserving male hair, stopping or reversing male pattern baldness + maximising appearance of hair density with things like minoxidil or finasteride if needed compounded with microneedling ideally
2) Maintain skin quality with a good skin care routine don't fall into the meme that "skincare is for women and gay people" your skin is literally your lifeline of youth minimise sun damage and try to get rid of any acne or scarring.
3) Not much you can do about lips, a quick looksmax tip I picked up from Effortless @Effortless was too exfoliate your lips to brigthen their colour and it works pretty well, other than that feed it moist and prevent cracks you can look into facial expansion devices but I don't know much about them.



KEY Male dimorphic features
(And what you can do)


Facial bones:

There is already so much information out on this one it pretty much speaks for itself that I won't spend too much time on it.
To sum it up:
View attachment 889093
Your ideal face should be as closest to the left as possible suiting to your phenotype of course
Quick notes
-Larger bigonial
-Deep set hunter eyes
- Larger browridge
-Larger nose
- Dense darker eyebrows
- Taller broder chin
-Larger more prominent cheekbones
- Thicker neck
- Straight hairline opposed to rounded.

Face theory is well covered both on this forum and in videos

Height.


Height also falls under the category of dimorphic qualities in the sense that men have more of it then women.
Height is inherently a masculine trait if you took an average faced 5'9 guy and made him 6'0 he would instantly become more masculine+attractive and have more success with women.

Women care far more about mens height than men care about womens and they want MORE of it than men



Being short as a man doesn't necessarily make you feminine per say but it detracts greatly from your masculinity to the point where even when you have other masculine traits a short height will overshadow other areas and you will be seen as overcompensating.
View attachment 889182
Case in point many people look down on him both figuratively and literally because hes 5'6 and he'll always be seen as a coping manlet
Meanwhile his 6'1 gigachad counterpart is respected and seen as a demigod

Height does not just effect your sex life it impedes on so many other aspects.

Swedish study showd shorter men had a 2x higher suicide rate (can’t remember what heights they based tall vs short off)
For men every 2inch increase in height had an average of a 9% reduction in suicide risk
6 foot is top 18% of male height however in a study among CEO’s it was roughly 50th percentile
Only 4% of the population is 6’2 and above however among CEO’s it’s 30%
An increase in height is correlated with greater reproductive success in males (water)
But it’s fine tho cos height doesn’t matter r-right?

"Shorter men have a twofold greater risk for suicide than taller men, according to a cohort study of more than a million men in this country.
For every five-centimeter (two-inch) increase in height, there was a 9% decrease in suicide risk, according to Patrik Magnusson, Ph.D., of Uppsala University and colleagues.
The association remained even after accounting for prenatal development and socioeconomic factors, the researchers reported in the July issue of American Journal of Psychiatry.

"Highly attractive people of both sexes earn at least 12% more than their less attractive coworkers. Read more at:
https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...ofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst"
"
Several studies over the years have shown that height and salary are positively correlated. This is true "especially for men, who earn 2.5% more per inch of additional height,"
It also suggested that a person who is 6 feet tall is likely to earn $166,000 more than someone who is 5 feet 5 inches tall, over a 30 year career."


A curvilinear effect of height on reproductive success in human males
.
" Human male height is associated with mate choice and intra-sexual competition, and therefore potentially with reproductive success "

I could go on but you get my point.
I want to stress the first bit though
"Swedish study showd shorter men had a 2x higher suicide rate"
"The association remained even after accounting for prenatal development and socioeconomic factors,"

People like to virtue signal amongst the mainstream about this but its clear cut as day it has nothing to do with "muh confidence" and everything to do with the physical trait itself
For every 100 tall men that committed suicide an EXCESS 100 short men did as well.
Imagine telling those short people that their suicides' were because of shit that was "in their heads" or a "confidence issue"
Its genuinely asinine.

I think the most detailed breakdown of height in dating was made by Deleted member 7866 @youngmaxxing in this thread
and there is not really much I can add to it so check it out

To give you an Idea:
"
90% of women will reject a man who is 5'4" based solely on his height.
65% of women will reject a man who is 5'7" based solely on his height.
50% of women will reject a man who is 5'8" based solely on his height.
14% of women will reject a man who is 5'10" based solely on his height.
1.5% of women will reject a man who is 6' based solely on his height.
Past 6'2", women begin to increase rejections of men for being too tall.
30% of women believe there is no such thing as a man being "too tall."
Over 94% of women will reject a man solely for him being too short. "

Women want to feel smaller than a man and without a solid excess of height over her she simply will not feel that way
Case in point:
Just take a look at the comments the amount of blackpill is absolutely insane women are creaming over him
View attachment 889195
Trust me there is a lot more
Let me remind you
That even despite the fact that the comment section of this Youtube video is primarily Leftists they still act in this primal way. The same people that virtue signal on instagram etc. that "everyone is beautiful, looks are subjective, there is someone out there for everyone, #bodypositivity" behave in raw female sexual desire when they see male dominance
Women absolutely LOVE it when men MOG the fuck out of other men
View attachment 889196
Despite being full social leftists they behave like this because it is hardwired human nature, keep coping with "muh social contruct" this is an innately dimorphic trait that is attractive for obvious reasons.




Hair

Ive already gone over hair loss and thinning so I will center this more around colour and style.
And when I say hair I am not only referring to head hair but overall in men this time.
Once again referring to the dimorphism chart
View attachment 889093
Males Have thicker more dense eyebrows indicating virility
.

If you have light eyebrows dye it dark or use latisse ASAP if you don't already have a thick pair of eyebrows.
Eyebrows can greatly increase the appearance of the eye area by increasing percived hooding and PFL
I can use myself as an extreme example to represent this:



Next on to hair COLOUR:

Women prefer darker hair on men
A very good thread summing up all the points on this by D @6ft5manlet doesn't leave much room for me to say anything else it's pretty self explanatory.

View attachment 889220




Next we can go onto Facial hair.

Once again facial hair is something that is sexually dimorphic however the ideal length may vary person to person. If you have a weak jaw you may need more to beardfraud, if you have a strong jaw, consider clean shaven or a minimal but heavy stubble should be maintained and contoured to complement the angularity of the jaw itself

Watch from 6:25


Body Hair.

A bit more complicated than the priot I cant find to much that is definitive this may be a case by case basis and more of a subjective taste among women.
Just anecdotally if you are lean and shredded in my personal experience from being a hair indian bodyhair can mask vascularity and definition so consider trimming it or shaving it off if so, if you are on the softer end body hair might act as a positive contributing to the "Large and Manly" look
Michelle Marrone is an example of the latter whereas Connor Murphy is an example of the former


Again just cater towards your own physique.
As for studies I found this: https://academic.oup.com/beheco/article/21/2/419/322906


Not very concrete but hairyness seems to be more on the subjective side and should be considered by an individual basis.




Muscles

Homo fags are going to debate a lot on this but it is pretty clear.
Dimorphism does not just begin and end in the face, like height muscles (and frame) also fall under this category.

If you want the BROADEST appeal for women in their late teens-mid twenties the answer is simple.
Muscles are a strong positive in the broadest sense YES there are SOME women that may prefer skinny guys but for the best overall appeal which will lead to by far the greatest success with women purely based on a game of probability it is in your best interest to have a good amount of musculature.


You get the point

.



This study proves my point more

Not a single woman amongst 160 preferred physically weaker men

This study used an eyetracker tracking womens eye movements on mens bodies

Pretty good video on it
Women voted via poll




According to eyetracking data women seem to look at abs quite a lot so its safe to say train them abs and always maintain a visible 6 pack

Muscle building is quite dependant on male testosterone for obvious reasons.
Certain muscle groups have a high androgen affinity towards testosterone


Traps and thus the sternoclamastoid and neck have a high androgen affinity
View attachment 889093
Explains why a thicker neck is observed here as a dimorphic trait

Imo neck curls with light weight 3x20 sets 3x per week yeild decent results

The neckpill is well documented and should never be underestimated


IMO a push/pull/legs has given me the best results.
Each muscle group should be trained at least 2x per week to maximise muscle protein synthesis and leave little room for catabolism.

Pretty easy to digest video for newbies:


A more advanced video with a respected researcher:

Census is at least train a muscle 2x per week there is not much benefit going more than 2x per week but 1x per week you are undercutting gains.










This post is so damn funny, but at the same time serious as fuck because all this shit matters in a society where feminism and BLM is rampant. You know that a woman can get your ass for rape if you don't look like a damn rescue hero esque 300 pound muscle bound looking ass mother fucker with 1 percent body fat. Its so funny when women say they don't like the steroid look. Its like - yeah sure you don't, I bet you don't like a 10 inch penis either.
 
RODEBLUR

RODEBLUR

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Goddamn. The title sounded so similar to my thread about the same topic from back in the day. Almost thought i was in Best of the Best.

But this is much better good job
 
Vermilioncore

Vermilioncore

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I have not a single trait that ANY women who ever lived would want. Think of all the good things that men are supposed to be — while I’m the exact opposite in every way
 
K

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I've read and watched all this information in the past but never put together quite like this. Excellent post.
 
Purefxrm

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SubhumanCurrycel said:
been reading a lot of differing opinions on topics such as masc vs pretty boy, Feminine features vs Masculine features and more importantly what is sexual dimorphism why is it important, how important is it and so forth.

To Start it off
There seems to be a lot of confusion on this topic too, people will say guys like Vinnie the Hacker or Young Henry Cavil have ideal appeal because they are "masculine with feminine features"
View attachment 889023
View attachment 889024
But this is simply not true and I will break down why





What is Sexual Dimorphism?

Copypasting straight from google I get this:
" Sexual dimorphism is the condition where the two sexes of the same species exhibit different characteristics beyond the differences in their sexual organs.
Pretty self explanatory as our gonads produce androgenic hormones that have an especially significant effect on our physcical appearance and give indicators of our "genetic package" and develop during and after puberty signalling fertility.

Since you are here I assume you haven't fallen for the trap of "women aren't visual like men" or "men aren't expected to be goodlooking like women are"
We all know this is nonsense and when you look at other species the opposite if anything is true
View attachment 889045
This Continues even for mammals
View attachment 889047
And even for our Great Ape Cousins
View attachment 889048

Males in mammalian species that successfully procure many mates and are higher in the heirarchy often exhbit more sexual dimorphism than the average in the group
For example
Elephant Seals:
" A good example of intrasexual selection, in which males fight for dominance over a harem of females "
The Deer I posted above interact in which the males will ram their antlers into one another (sexually dimorphic trait) and those that win these tests have access to the most females.

Same goes for the Mountain Bison:
View attachment 889055
In fact its even more extreme for them. The male Bison are hyper aggressive so they essentially outcast themselves from the females of their species where year round they will but heads. Once Breeding season comes along the most dominant male in the heirarchy (directly associated with their physical dimorphism and dominance) will leave the male group and copulate with all the fertile females.

The mammalian structure of sexual and natural selection dynamics results in

Why do Mammals behave this way?

Some of you may be wondering this
Why is it this way? Why does it have to be this way? This is Unfair!

There are many ways to break this down firstly lets think of it in term of raw Sexual economics
Paraphrasing from a FaceandLMS video:
"A man produces more sperm in one day than a woman produces in her life, the female's egg is far more valuable than the sperm, millions of sperm will rush to the same egg real life is analagous to that"

Thats one way to put it.
But personally I think it Makes more sense to look at it through an action/reaction, cost effect lens:

Think of a scenario

A long time ago say 100'000 years ago two archiac humans one male and one female (cave Adam and Eve lol) find themselves isolated together in a cave for some time etc.
Just by virtue of this situation both have sex, not just once but multiple times throughout days, weeks maybe even months.
As a result of this they are likely to have sex during the females ovulation cycle and thus become pregnant

All is said and done right?
No not really
Lets take a detailed breakdown of the pros and Cons of each party involved as like every action there is a consequence and the consequences are not equally distributed between the sexes.

Male:
Pros: Passes on his DNA survival of his genetic material
Cons: Virtually none other than losing sperm

Female:
Pros: Like the male she passes on her DNA
Cons: None immediately BUT, in approximately a weeks time she will begin to feel sick and begin vommiting, shes pregnant and the initial feotus releases certain waste that make her sick, that is just the beginning,for the next 9 months she will have a vulnerable livign organism growing inside her
There are no maternity leaves in mother nature she is vulnerable to predators killing her, other humans killing her, if she gets hurt and the baby dies the baby will literally necrose inside her and kill her organs.
Her immune system is compromised and her need for nutrition and resources incrases to support the baby.
Once her pregnancy ends it doesn't stop there
An extremely common cause of death among women pre medical era was childbirth often due to blood loss.
Now she must harbour an infant and nurse it to a state of independence once again a very draining and cost heavy process.




Hence given this massive cost/benefit difference Women must select far more harshly on Traits:
Also imortant to note:
Mother nature has also made it that men have a higher sex drive than women meaning men are more willing to fuck and women are more willing to be more picky, sexual drive is like hunger and a hungry man will eat more + settle for less while a satiated will not eat as much and only eat when the quality is good


Looks:
Looks are an indicator of your genetic quality, if she is going to go through all that trouble she must insure the genetic material in the form of the sperm she will be recieving is of a high quality as to ensure that the offspring are genetically fit individuals themselves with a higher chance of survival, it is pretty self explanatory

Status:
Deny it all you want but humans are inherently a social species, heirarchies are as natural as taking a shit despite what leftists will tell you, they are universal to all great apes and virtually all mammals, status matters because a high status male is higher in the heirarchy they have more access to food, resources, power (and security) and as a consequence mates as they are the most secure option to breed with
Again as stated before a lot of the heirarchical behaviours in animals
Heirarchical behaviour is basic shit I learnt in highschool biology under the topic of Animal Behaviour, Don't be so naive to think this does not apply to you.

Resources
I specifically say resources as this changes over time but at our current age it seems as if its main mediator is money etc and once upon a time it was based on the physical labour and merit of a man. The more resources a man has the more likely he is to provide and protect the female during her pregnancy and throughout the time she raises her infants hence she makes an educated choice on which man will give her that security?

How do these factors interact with each other?
In the past I think they would've interacted more with each other due to the fact that virtually all acquirement of resources was based on physical merit etc. and money kind of changes that but the links still apply
A good looking male will tend to have a higher status and more opportunity to acquire resources
We observe this as the Hailo effect all of you are probably familar with where better looking people will be treated better even in corporate settings and so on.

" good-looking people make about 12% more money than less appealing folks, and that attractive real-estate brokers bring in more money than their less attractive peers."
.







Sexual Dimorphism vs Indicators of Youth and Health)

I believe this is something fundamental that some users on this forum fail to understand.
Users often confuse indicators of youth with Feminine features



Sexual dimorphism is almost always a positive.
Yes there are certain extremes in certain cases where too much dimorphism is present but this really isnt an issue for most and a lot of times it is indicitive of an underlying hormal regulation issue like pic related:
View attachment 889034
Being a clinically recognized medical condition/abnormality gives sense as to why said trait is not seen as attractive as it indicates bad health/genetics unfit for survival.



What is the distinction between the two then?

It's pretty clear

Indicators of Youth and Health are favoured in BOTH Sexes where as a dimorphic trait (male or female) is only favourable in ONE

This idea that certain feminine features look good on men is just dumb as a feminine feature is the antithesis of a male feature hence making the face less dimorphic and reducing its attractiveness

View attachment 889093

This is taking a caucasian face and changing the soft features such as hair minimically whilst emulating the dimorphic features
In the middle is AND meaning androgynous this is OBJECTIVELY the worst place to be in as an adult male or female as it has 0 dimorphic qualities on either side its features are an inbetween blend across the board, something you would expect from a prepubescent child, an individual with a chromosomal disorder such as intersex (Kleinfelters) or a transexual.
Many people confuse feminine/androgynous traits with indicators of Health which I'll explain later.

On the far left is closest for a male face (DOM) at least for a caucasian male, all his features from the wider bigonial, the follow cheeks, the bigger nose the wider chin, the more deepset eyes, the "boxxed off" hairline, and strong cheekbones are on the masculine side.

ANY feature you would make more "feminine" on the far left would lower his sexual attractiveness objectively
And no forward growth/not being recessed isnt dimorphic but the bone mass and ideal ratios are.

Indicators of Youth and Health are far different

They are often applicable universally across both sexes, youth is not to be confused with prepubescent features rather features indicating that the individual has signs of good health and mininmal aging given they are post puberty,

What is an example of this?

Collagen:
I often see how having good skin and collagen is seen as a "prettyboy" feature (hinting its not masculine), This is simply not true. Either you've been looking at too many roidheads with piss poor reptialian skin or fell for the meme that wanting to have good skin as a man is "gay and feminine:
View attachment 889099
View attachment 889024


Translates to good health with minimal biological aging and likely a good diet + skin genetics.

" Changes in collagen and elastic fibers are followed by the appearance of rhytides, sagging of skin, and loss of elasticity (Figure d). But diet, trough ingestion of sugar, can accelerate these signs of aging "
" "looking old for your age" is an indicator of poor health. The concept of perceived age has been shown to be predictive of mortality in elderly individuals (5, 6) and is associated with a higher risk of both morbidity and mortality (7). "
" Acute exposure to UV is associated with sunburn, DNA modifications, and immune suppression, but chronic, long-term exposure can lead to premature skin aging (photoaging) and skin cancer "


Just a short summary but signs of aging also linked with a poor diet, an accurate indicator of health predictive of an early death, also indicates skin damage and proclibity towards cancer.

This is not a feminine feature nor is it a masculine one it is seperate and is an indicator of health something that is beneficial and preferable between BOTH sexes and has very consistent traits that predict the health of the individual be that male or female and is totally unrelated to the sexual differentiation produced by the gonads.

HAIR QUALITY.
(Inb4 I rope)
I specify hair quality not just hair as there are dimorphic preferences in hair regarding to colour and this only refers to scalp hair not facial hair.

Clear indication is deficincies:
B vitamins that are crucial for cell function have been shown to be associated with hair loss/thinning along with folate and iron.
It can also be indicitive of a thyroid issue.
Many autoimmune diseases such as alopecia arieta target and kill hairfollicles this to an observer may indicate a malfunctioning immune system hence is seen as a biological negative regarding the genetic quality of the individual


Male and female pattern baldness:
Both are indicitive of a hormonal issue
Male pattern baldness is caused by an excess of DHT it may or may not signal a problem with testosterone (wether it be too little or too much)
.
The link is still unclear but:
"Research is showing men with male pattern baldness have an increased risk of developing heart disease and prostate cancer. Research is showing men with male pattern baldness have an increased risk of developing heart disease and prostate"

Females can also develop Female Pattern baldness post-menapause
" Up to two-thirds of women experience hair loss after menopause "
This is a pretty obvious indicator as if a female is post menopause she is no longer ovulating therefore is infertile and cannot produce offspring.

Like skin both are also indicitive of old age and a lack of youth. The effectiveness of this may vary when considering the age your target audience of women so to speak.


LIPS

Now I guarantee I have seen this one a lot "more feminine lips are ideal" etc. but this simply isn't true as even thought they are a somewhat dimorphic this idea on this forum that "thin lips are a masculine trait" is just fucking retarded and I've im including it because ive seen it said many times.
Thin lips especially a thin upper lip are correlated with disorders such as down syndrome or fetal alcohol syndrome aka a developmental (or genetic) disorder.
View attachment 889121
Unironically kys if you think thin lips are a masculine trait, its a trait thats signals "I'm a deformed and abused dog that needs to be euthanized"

" Almost all the vertical profile measurements were greater in males than in females. The only variables with no gender differences were lower (Li-Sto) and upper vermilion heights"
"Men with lower 2D:4D tended to have more protrusive mandibles, noses, and lips. These facial features have been associated with more ‘masculine’ appearance (2,22,23), supporting the role of androgens"
"The results indicated a sex-effect, with females preferring fuller lips than males. Significant differences were also found between orthodontically treated subjects and untreated subjects, with untreated subjects preferring fuller lips"


Taking the info above into account and my subjective opinion would want good sized lips with good colour and fullness however, you wouldnt want huge cocksucker James Charles Tier lips that throw off the philtrum and chin balances of the lower third.
Imo something like a young Tom Welling from Smallville has a pretty good balance of these features along with guys like Vinnie the Hacker
View attachment 889127



Using examples to distinguish between Male Dimorphic features and features of Youth and health.


Danny Trejo
View attachment 889129


An Individual with very High male dimorphism but very low in Indicators of health and youth namely his skin and collagen

Jacob Sartorious
View attachment 889131
Coversely ranking very high on indicators of health such as good collagen, full thick head of hair, and good lips but severly lacking in male dimorphism giving him the babyfaced look


Ideally you want a good balance of both.
The importance of each may differ depending on age for example im sure some grannies would dig Danny Trejo and some middleschoolers would Sartorious but in regards to what is relavant to us for females in their late teens and early-mid twenties a pretty good mix of High indicators of health + youth and masculinity is needed for the broades overall appeal.

Good examples are as follows
View attachment 889023
View attachment 889024
View attachment 889147
View attachment 889148
View attachment 889154
Examples above are ideal
All have good collagen, a full head of hair, good lips yet are still very dimorphic.
Sometime these are called "Maesthetic or Robust prettyboy"
Maesthetic is an ok terminology but Robust prettyboy does not suit in my opinion as the denotion "prettyboy" gives the idea that the individual is not masculine/ is feminine in their features but as I've clarified that isn't necessarily the case.

Maesthetic = Masculine + Indicators of health/youth

Maesthetic =/= Masculine + some Feminine features


Thought id clear that out of the way


How to maximise on Features of youth and health?

I won't get into much detail because there are very detailed guides on this but essentially they consist around
1) Preserving male hair, stopping or reversing male pattern baldness + maximising appearance of hair density with things like minoxidil or finasteride if needed compounded with microneedling ideally
2) Maintain skin quality with a good skin care routine don't fall into the meme that "skincare is for women and gay people" your skin is literally your lifeline of youth minimise sun damage and try to get rid of any acne or scarring.
3) Not much you can do about lips, a quick looksmax tip I picked up from Effortless @Effortless was too exfoliate your lips to brigthen their colour and it works pretty well, other than that feed it moist and prevent cracks you can look into facial expansion devices but I don't know much about them.



KEY Male dimorphic features
(And what you can do)


Facial bones:

There is already so much information out on this one it pretty much speaks for itself that I won't spend too much time on it.
To sum it up:
View attachment 889093
Your ideal face should be as closest to the left as possible suiting to your phenotype of course
Quick notes
-Larger bigonial
-Deep set hunter eyes
- Larger browridge
-Larger nose
- Dense darker eyebrows
- Taller broder chin
-Larger more prominent cheekbones
- Thicker neck
- Straight hairline opposed to rounded.

Face theory is well covered both on this forum and in videos

Height.


Height also falls under the category of dimorphic qualities in the sense that men have more of it then women.
Height is inherently a masculine trait if you took an average faced 5'9 guy and made him 6'0 he would instantly become more masculine+attractive and have more success with women.

Women care far more about mens height than men care about womens and they want MORE of it than men



Being short as a man doesn't necessarily make you feminine per say but it detracts greatly from your masculinity to the point where even when you have other masculine traits a short height will overshadow other areas and you will be seen as overcompensating.
View attachment 889182
Case in point many people look down on him both figuratively and literally because hes 5'6 and he'll always be seen as a coping manlet
Meanwhile his 6'1 gigachad counterpart is respected and seen as a demigod

Height does not just effect your sex life it impedes on so many other aspects.

Swedish study showd shorter men had a 2x higher suicide rate (can’t remember what heights they based tall vs short off)
For men every 2inch increase in height had an average of a 9% reduction in suicide risk
6 foot is top 18% of male height however in a study among CEO’s it was roughly 50th percentile
Only 4% of the population is 6’2 and above however among CEO’s it’s 30%
An increase in height is correlated with greater reproductive success in males (water)
But it’s fine tho cos height doesn’t matter r-right?

"Shorter men have a twofold greater risk for suicide than taller men, according to a cohort study of more than a million men in this country.
For every five-centimeter (two-inch) increase in height, there was a 9% decrease in suicide risk, according to Patrik Magnusson, Ph.D., of Uppsala University and colleagues.
The association remained even after accounting for prenatal development and socioeconomic factors, the researchers reported in the July issue of American Journal of Psychiatry.

"Highly attractive people of both sexes earn at least 12% more than their less attractive coworkers. Read more at:
https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...ofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst"
"
Several studies over the years have shown that height and salary are positively correlated. This is true "especially for men, who earn 2.5% more per inch of additional height,"
It also suggested that a person who is 6 feet tall is likely to earn $166,000 more than someone who is 5 feet 5 inches tall, over a 30 year career."


A curvilinear effect of height on reproductive success in human males
.
" Human male height is associated with mate choice and intra-sexual competition, and therefore potentially with reproductive success "

I could go on but you get my point.
I want to stress the first bit though
"Swedish study showd shorter men had a 2x higher suicide rate"
"The association remained even after accounting for prenatal development and socioeconomic factors,"

People like to virtue signal amongst the mainstream about this but its clear cut as day it has nothing to do with "muh confidence" and everything to do with the physical trait itself
For every 100 tall men that committed suicide an EXCESS 100 short men did as well.
Imagine telling those short people that their suicides' were because of shit that was "in their heads" or a "confidence issue"
Its genuinely asinine.

I think the most detailed breakdown of height in dating was made by Deleted member 7866 @youngmaxxing in this thread
and there is not really much I can add to it so check it out

To give you an Idea:
"
90% of women will reject a man who is 5'4" based solely on his height.
65% of women will reject a man who is 5'7" based solely on his height.
50% of women will reject a man who is 5'8" based solely on his height.
14% of women will reject a man who is 5'10" based solely on his height.
1.5% of women will reject a man who is 6' based solely on his height.
Past 6'2", women begin to increase rejections of men for being too tall.
30% of women believe there is no such thing as a man being "too tall."
Over 94% of women will reject a man solely for him being too short. "

Women want to feel smaller than a man and without a solid excess of height over her she simply will not feel that way
Case in point:
Just take a look at the comments the amount of blackpill is absolutely insane women are creaming over him
View attachment 889195
Trust me there is a lot more
Let me remind you
That even despite the fact that the comment section of this Youtube video is primarily Leftists they still act in this primal way. The same people that virtue signal on instagram etc. that "everyone is beautiful, looks are subjective, there is someone out there for everyone, #bodypositivity" behave in raw female sexual desire when they see male dominance
Women absolutely LOVE it when men MOG the fuck out of other men
View attachment 889196
Despite being full social leftists they behave like this because it is hardwired human nature, keep coping with "muh social contruct" this is an innately dimorphic trait that is attractive for obvious reasons.




Hair

Ive already gone over hair loss and thinning so I will center this more around colour and style.
And when I say hair I am not only referring to head hair but overall in men this time.
Once again referring to the dimorphism chart
View attachment 889093
Males Have thicker more dense eyebrows indicating virility
.

If you have light eyebrows dye it dark or use latisse ASAP if you don't already have a thick pair of eyebrows.
Eyebrows can greatly increase the appearance of the eye area by increasing percived hooding and PFL
I can use myself as an extreme example to represent this:



Next on to hair COLOUR:

Women prefer darker hair on men
A very good thread summing up all the points on this by D @6ft5manlet doesn't leave much room for me to say anything else it's pretty self explanatory.

View attachment 889220




Next we can go onto Facial hair.

Once again facial hair is something that is sexually dimorphic however the ideal length may vary person to person. If you have a weak jaw you may need more to beardfraud, if you have a strong jaw, consider clean shaven or a minimal but heavy stubble should be maintained and contoured to complement the angularity of the jaw itself

Watch from 6:25


Body Hair.

A bit more complicated than the priot I cant find to much that is definitive this may be a case by case basis and more of a subjective taste among women.
Just anecdotally if you are lean and shredded in my personal experience from being a hair indian bodyhair can mask vascularity and definition so consider trimming it or shaving it off if so, if you are on the softer end body hair might act as a positive contributing to the "Large and Manly" look
Michelle Marrone is an example of the latter whereas Connor Murphy is an example of the former


Again just cater towards your own physique.
As for studies I found this: https://academic.oup.com/beheco/article/21/2/419/322906


Not very concrete but hairyness seems to be more on the subjective side and should be considered by an individual basis.




Muscles

Homo fags are going to debate a lot on this but it is pretty clear.
Dimorphism does not just begin and end in the face, like height muscles (and frame) also fall under this category.

If you want the BROADEST appeal for women in their late teens-mid twenties the answer is simple.
Muscles are a strong positive in the broadest sense YES there are SOME women that may prefer skinny guys but for the best overall appeal which will lead to by far the greatest success with women purely based on a game of probability it is in your best interest to have a good amount of musculature.


You get the point

.



This study proves my point more

Not a single woman amongst 160 preferred physically weaker men

This study used an eyetracker tracking womens eye movements on mens bodies

Pretty good video on it
Women voted via poll




According to eyetracking data women seem to look at abs quite a lot so its safe to say train them abs and always maintain a visible 6 pack

Muscle building is quite dependant on male testosterone for obvious reasons.
Certain muscle groups have a high androgen affinity towards testosterone


Traps and thus the sternoclamastoid and neck have a high androgen affinity
View attachment 889093
Explains why a thicker neck is observed here as a dimorphic trait

Imo neck curls with light weight 3x20 sets 3x per week yeild decent results

The neckpill is well documented and should never be underestimated


IMO a push/pull/legs has given me the best results.
Each muscle group should be trained at least 2x per week to maximise muscle protein synthesis and leave little room for catabolism.

Pretty easy to digest video for newbies:


A more advanced video with a respected researcher:

Census is at least train a muscle 2x per week there is not much benefit going more than 2x per week but 1x per week you are undercutting gains.










This is a complete literature review and deserves more attention. Thanks for the great job:blackpill:;) fucking legend
 
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King Solomon

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STATUS: Within society today the best way for a male to have the most options for females is by far status. I am not talking about situational status I'm talking about celebrity status where you are known not only in your nation but globablly. Elite level athletes, actors, musicians, etc can get to this level. However, this is extremely rare and takes talent, practice, time, opportunity, luck, skills, etc. Also, one's looks can increase your chance to making it to this level do help but I've seen many ugly people make it to this level of status before. The odds of making it to this level is 1/10,000,000. Basically one person per large city. The amount of time and sacrafice to get to this level is at an extreme difficulty if you do not have the looks and even if you get to a very high level the opportunity must present itself. The issue with status is once the great feelings of being with an elite star wares off the girl will get bored and leave or she will just use you like a leach for your status to boost hers. If a better looking option comes along then she will let the alpha bang her and have no loyalty to you if your only thing to offer is status/resources.

Resources: If you have just average looks but you have off the charts resources (50 mil plus) then you will only attract gold diggers (95% of the time). They will only seek to be with you to again leach off your wealth and will cheat on you for a more attractive man and or leave you eventually once she's taken what she wanted.

Looks: In the day and age of sexual liberation for women (free sex market place no regulations all sluts are welcome to fuck as many men as they please with no rules against it and actually pay her to have more sex and more babbies or be a slut. They have 34 forms of contraception now so they can fuck like rabbits. Also, We live in the times of online dating, social media where she now has global access and if any man from anywhere in the world finds her attractive he will go after her and more often than not win her over even if she is married (if he has the looks or elite status). If you're an 8 or above you can have next to no game on dating sites and not only get 100's of matches a day but get 1-2 hookups per day with ease. You can even have a profile that tellls people you're a criminal and they will still go after you. If you're in the Chad tier women will make comments to you first. Also, in the real world women will come near you and make comments or approach you first or make it incredibly easy or obvious. Laslty, they have extreme levels of fakeup with the power of makeup, surgery, and even fake prostetics these women will have big breasts, small waists, large asses, flawless skin, and near perfect faces and can look like a 9 or even a 10 even if they are a 2-4 in reality without all that trash on. This allows them to go after the chads and even when they age they can still use these methods to mask or cover up their imperfections like a damn clown.

As we all know the women in this world are not changing their natural biology it's just the sexual market place is changing. I'm sure you have seen the studies online in which 90% or more of women are going after the top 10% or less of men in the looks department. Even the ugly 4's or 3's (women) will go after 6's or 7's (men). This is mostly simply genetics just pure dumb luck and being an 8-10 gives you an abundance of options. Also, height and frame fall in the looks category. If you have an 8+ face but you're 5'4" or shorter and a small frame then you will be screwed unless you have surgery. To be in this top 10% or Chad like tier you will need at least an 8 face, 6 foot tall at bare minimum, white guy, and a large frame. Other races will have to makeup for not being white by having some other factor, 9+ face, 6'2", as whites have a major advantage in every country except Africa.


LONG TERM RELATIONSHIPS (youthfull, attractive, prime females) All this is just to get the foot in the door or to attract the female and pump and dump her if you want the female to stay with you in a long term relationship. If you want a long term relationship with a female in her prime that hasn't been used up and looking for a beta male provider then you need the following (if you were able to attract her as a Chad).

1.) Masculine Frame: Not putting up with any of her shit, leading her, on your purpose at all times. You're ready to leave her at any time and don't give two fucks about her if she fucks up and wants you back. You don't actually have to directly say this but it will be implied.
2.) Above average Cock: 7x6 penis with high level of bedroom game. She will get bored or be unsatisfied quickly if you can't provide this for her. You might be able to attract her with your looks or status but she will leave you for a Casanova in a heartbeat. Over 95% of women claim to be unsatified by men in the bedroom.
3.) Game/social skills: This can be used to pickup chicks but can also be used to keep things interesting and fun. Knowing the things that make her wet and being all those things while making it fun will keep her wet for you.



In the end Mostly looks attract females and the uglier you're the more game you will need to attract them. However, if you're below a 6 then there is no level of game that can make up the difference and you will need elite level status or wealth to attract females which is essentially gold diggers. This is great for pump and dumps but after you attracted them and if you would like to hold onto them you will need bedroom game/inches, strong masculine frame, and a moderate to high level of game/social skills. A major bonus is you can geo max or move to different locations if you want to boost your tier or rating with women fairly dramatically. This is mostly for white men going to Asia.


If you want to cut it down to true geniune desire for you as a man then you can have 8+ looks combined with strong masculine frame then this will be enough to land a high value woman any time you want and to have a long relationship if that's what you want.


Now Masculine frame can be learned over a relatively short period of time. However if you want to change your looks it will either take 3-4+ years or a ton of money with surgery.

I.) Natural Methods to improve your looks: Some of these things depend heavily on your age and the younger you are in general the better effects some of these methods will have on your looks.

A.) Face:
1.) Skin: must have near flawless poreless skin that has a youthfull appearance full of collagen and strong elastin.
-Derma Rollers
-Many different organic cold pressed extra virgin oils ( carrot seed, aragon, avacado oil, etc)
-toners: rose water
-face masks (organic Manuka honey 16+ factor)/gold potatoes/activated charcoal/oats/
-whtie teeth: banana/strawberry
-clear skin:all the above plus organic raw plant based diet. Alkaline diet doesn't allow any disease to survive in your body. When you have an acidic diet it will show in your face with acne (unless you have great genetics).
2) Nose: you can straighten and shrink your nose with this method (hold one side of your nose and breath in hard then breath out the other nostril and rotate for 10+ times every day).
3.) Jawline, Check bones, and eye shape:

-Mewing plays a significant role here and again the younger you're the better. If you're over 30 then it will only have a small effect and if you're over 60 then it will have no effect, if you're over 20 then it can have a good effect and anything under 18 it can be near life changing. If you go to Dr. Mew's youtube channel he does provide video evidence of changes of people young and old from mewing.

-Bone Smashing: There's a small amount of youtube channels on this and very little science. However, we do know that microfractures caused by constantly hitting the bones with either your knuckles or small hard objects can increase the density, thickness and shape of your bones. Personally I've done this to my knuckles and shins for over a decade and I know for a fact the size, hardness and thickness has increased. I've only done my jaw since early this year but the results are minimal positive results so far. I'm fine with the rest of my face structure so I don't risk doing anything else.

-facial exercises: These can improve one's facial structure as well to a small degree.

B.) Height: Overall you must be either before or in the middle of puberty or these methods will do nothing:
1.) Testosterone boosting diet
2.) HIT training
3.) Weight training: full body daily for over nuclei training, progressive overload, low body fat percentage (around 10% is optimal).
4.) Intermittent fasting: boosts hormones

C.) Frame: This is similar to height, however after puberty you can still increase the size of your shoulders and lats to a degree naturally but if you're a framecell it might not be enough and you will be considered somehwat of a manlet at least frame wise.

D.) Penis Size:
1.) Pumps: Very small changes but some have reported up to 1-2 inches in length and 1.5 inches in girth increase. Most people are also doing PE though.
2.) Girth Penis Exercises: Horse 440, clamps, clamp/440 combination, jeqling: Average is .5-1.5 inches in girth but I've seen a 2.5 increase before with pictures on forums.
3.) Legnth P Exercises: hanging, jeqling, extenders. Max gains are 2-3 inches.

Overall time can be anywhere from 12 months to 3 years for best gains and to cement the gains.

For all the natural methods combined this can take anywhere from 2 years to 4 years to get the desired results or close to your desired results.

Overall what improvements can you expect? Well it all depends on what you're attempting to improve, your age and how much your age plays a factor. I would say if you're under 14 years of age the natural methods can improve you by up to 3-5 points if you max these out (sub 5). If you're over 21 years of age then I would say at best it can boost you by 2.5-4 points at max if you're over 35 years of age then 1-2 points at max. Over 60 years of age then 1 point at the very max). So yes I believe a 4 can go into a Chad level if they start this routine before puberty (unless their hight/frame genetics are a severe limiting factor.


II.) Unnatural methods (surgery):

A.) This is the last case scenario but if it comes down to you tried everything else and nothing has worked enough for you then if you ever want to have children then this might be the best case scenario. I'd reccomend just doing your research as much as possible and find a highly rated place and don't limit yourself to your geographic location. If I chose this method I would fly to anywhere in the world to get this done. Money plays a huge factor and most of the 4's and below will require major surgeries and we're talking 5-12k on average per procedure so if you need 3 procedures you'll need at least 36k to play it safe and maybe up to 50k or so for a high level operation. This would be considered a brand new decent level car so you'll have to sacrafice one of the new 5 new car's that you get in your lifetime to change your life for the better. If you can find people first hand that went to a specific place and they have your desired results then that would be the best case scenario. Can this take you from a 2-10? Probably not but surgeries can and have worked great wonders. It's always going to be case by case scenario but on average if you're a 4 and below and if you get the 1-3 major surgeries by the best professionals in the world and they do an excellent job I would say at least excpect a 2-3 point increase in your looks and at best 4-5 in extreme cases. Your skin, hair and facial hair are other things to keep in mind here as they play a role in facial attractiveness as well.

B.) Hormone Treatment: Hormones can assit you at a young age in increasing your penis size, voice deepening, height and frame growth etc. There may be long term negative effects to these but this is another option.

These treatments and recovery times can range from 1-2 months so if you have 4 procedures you need done I would say expect this entire process to take 8 months or less to get to your desired results.


Cheat Code: Combination method

1.) Combine natural looks maxing with diet, exercise, sleep, mewing, skincare, etc. Once you received you have maxed out your results and if there are still some significant improvements required to get to that Chad tier you want then go for the surgeries from the best places to go in the world. Use this new look to status max by starting a youtube channel to increase your wealth. Geomax if you're a white dude. Now you have looks, money, status and you geo maxed giving you maximum options. Overall time requirement for all of this is at least 7+ years (8 face, height and frame max, 500k youtube subs, new country, 500k per year 3 mil total wealth). So, if you start at 15 years of age you can get to this level at the age of 22 years old.
 
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King Solomon said:
STATUS: Within society today the best way for a male to have the most options for females is by far status. I am not talking about situational status I'm talking about celebrity status where you are known not only in your nation but globablly. Elite level athletes, actors, musicians, etc can get to this level. However, this is extremely rare and takes talent, practice, time, opportunity, luck, skills, etc. Also, one's looks can increase your chance to making it to this level do help but I've seen many ugly people make it to this level of status before. The odds of making it to this level is 1/10,000,000. Basically one person per large city. The amount of time and sacrafice to get to this level is at an extreme difficulty if you do not have the looks and even if you get to a very high level the opportunity must present itself. The issue with status is once the great feelings of being with an elite star wares off the girl will get bored and leave or she will just use you like a leach for your status to boost hers. If a better looking option comes along then she will let the alpha bang her and have no loyalty to you if your only thing to offer is status/resources.

Resources: If you have just average looks but you have off the charts resources (50 mil plus) then you will only attract gold diggers (95% of the time). They will only seek to be with you to again leach off your wealth and will cheat on you for a more attractive man and or leave you eventually once she's taken what she wanted.

Looks: In the day and age of sexual liberation for women (free sex market place no regulations all sluts are welcome to fuck as many men as they please with no rules against it and actually pay her to have more sex and more babbies or be a slut. They have 34 forms of contraception now so they can fuck like rabbits. Also, We live in the times of online dating, social media where she now has global access and if any man from anywhere in the world finds her attractive he will go after her and more often than not win her over even if she is married (if he has the looks or elite status). If you're an 8 or above you can have next to no game on dating sites and not only get 100's of matches a day but get 1-2 hookups per day with ease. You can even have a profile that tellls people you're a criminal and they will still go after you. If you're in the Chad tier women will make comments to you first. Also, in the real world women will come near you and make comments or approach you first or make it incredibly easy or obvious. Laslty, they have extreme levels of fakeup with the power of makeup, surgery, and even fake prostetics these women will have big breasts, small waists, large asses, flawless skin, and near perfect faces and can look like a 9 or even a 10 even if they are a 2-4 in reality without all that trash on. This allows them to go after the chads and even when they age they can still use these methods to mask or cover up their imperfections like a damn clown.

As we all know the women in this world are not changing their natural biology it's just the sexual market place is changing. I'm sure you have seen the studies online in which 90% or more of women are going after the top 10% or less of men in the looks department. Even the ugly 4's or 3's (women) will go after 6's or 7's (men). This is mostly simply genetics just pure dumb luck and being an 8-10 gives you an abundance of options. Also, height and frame fall in the looks category. If you have an 8+ face but you're 5'4" or shorter and a small frame then you will be screwed unless you have surgery. To be in this top 10% or Chad like tier you will need at least an 8 face, 6 foot tall at bare minimum, white guy, and a large frame. Other races will have to makeup for not being white by having some other factor, 9+ face, 6'2", as whites have a major advantage in every country except Africa.


LONG TERM RELATIONSHIPS (youthfull, attractive, prime females) All this is just to get the foot in the door or to attract the female and pump and dump her if you want the female to stay with you in a long term relationship. If you want a long term relationship with a female in her prime that hasn't been used up and looking for a beta male provider then you need the following (if you were able to attract her as a Chad).

1.) Masculine Frame: Not putting up with any of her shit, leading her, on your purpose at all times. You're ready to leave her at any time and don't give two fucks about her if she fucks up and wants you back. You don't actually have to directly say this but it will be implied.
2.) Above average Cock: 7x6 penis with high level of bedroom game. She will get bored or be unsatisfied quickly if you can't provide this for her. You might be able to attract her with your looks or status but she will leave you for a Casanova in a heartbeat. Over 95% of women claim to be unsatified by men in the bedroom.
3.) Game/social skills: This can be used to pickup chicks but can also be used to keep things interesting and fun. Knowing the things that make her wet and being all those things while making it fun will keep her wet for you.



In the end Mostly looks attract females and the uglier you're the more game you will need to attract them. However, if you're below a 6 then there is no level of game that can make up the difference and you will need elite level status or wealth to attract females which is essentially gold diggers. This is great for pump and dumps but after you attracted them and if you would like to hold onto them you will need bedroom game/inches, strong masculine frame, and a moderate to high level of game/social skills. A major bonus is you can geo max or move to different locations if you want to boost your tier or rating with women fairly dramatically. This is mostly for white men going to Asia.


If you want to cut it down to true geniune desire for you as a man then you can have 8+ looks combined with strong masculine frame then this will be enough to land a high value woman any time you want and to have a long relationship if that's what you want.


Now Masculine frame can be learned over a relatively short period of time. However if you want to change your looks it will either take 3-4+ years or a ton of money with surgery.

I.) Natural Methods to improve your looks: Some of these things depend heavily on your age and the younger you are in general the better effects some of these methods will have on your looks.

A.) Face:
1.) Skin: must have near flawless poreless skin that has a youthfull appearance full of collagen and strong elastin.
-Derma Rollers
-Many different organic cold pressed extra virgin oils ( carrot seed, aragon, avacado oil, etc)
-toners: rose water
-face masks (organic Manuka honey 16+ factor)/gold potatoes/activated charcoal/oats/
-whtie teeth: banana/strawberry
-clear skin:all the above plus organic raw plant based diet. Alkaline diet doesn't allow any disease to survive in your body. When you have an acidic diet it will show in your face with acne (unless you have great genetics).
2) Nose: you can straighten and shrink your nose with this method (hold one side of your nose and breath in hard then breath out the other nostril and rotate for 10+ times every day).
3.) Jawline, Check bones, and eye shape:

-Mewing plays a significant role here and again the younger you're the better. If you're over 30 then it will only have a small effect and if you're over 60 then it will have no effect, if you're over 20 then it can have a good effect and anything under 18 it can be near life changing. If you go to Dr. Mew's youtube channel he does provide video evidence of changes of people young and old from mewing.

-Bone Smashing: There's a small amount of youtube channels on this and very little science. However, we do know that microfractures caused by constantly hitting the bones with either your knuckles or small hard objects can increase the density, thickness and shape of your bones. Personally I've done this to my knuckles and shins for over a decade and I know for a fact the size, hardness and thickness has increased. I've only done my jaw since early this year but the results are minimal positive results so far. I'm fine with the rest of my face structure so I don't risk doing anything else.

-facial exercises: These can improve one's facial structure as well to a small degree.

B.) Height: Overall you must be either before or in the middle of puberty or these methods will do nothing:
1.) Testosterone boosting diet
2.) HIT training
3.) Weight training: full body daily for over nuclei training, progressive overload, low body fat percentage (around 10% is optimal).
4.) Intermittent fasting: boosts hormones

C.) Frame: This is similar to height, however after puberty you can still increase the size of your shoulders and lats to a degree naturally but if you're a framecell it might not be enough and you will be considered somehwat of a manlet at least frame wise.

D.) Penis Size:
1.) Pumps: Very small changes but some have reported up to 1-2 inches in length and 1.5 inches in girth increase. Most people are also doing PE though.
2.) Girth Penis Exercises: Horse 440, clamps, clamp/440 combination, jeqling: Average is .5-1.5 inches in girth but I've seen a 2.5 increase before with pictures on forums.
3.) Legnth P Exercises: hanging, jeqling, extenders. Max gains are 2-3 inches.

Overall time can be anywhere from 12 months to 3 years for best gains and to cement the gains.

For all the natural methods combined this can take anywhere from 2 years to 4 years to get the desired results or close to your desired results.

Overall what improvements can you expect? Well it all depends on what you're attempting to improve, your age and how much your age plays a factor. I would say if you're under 14 years of age the natural methods can improve you by up to 3-5 points if you max these out (sub 5). If you're over 21 years of age then I would say at best it can boost you by 2.5-4 points at max if you're over 35 years of age then 1-2 points at max. Over 60 years of age then 1 point at the very max). So yes I believe a 4 can go into a Chad level if they start this routine before puberty (unless their hight/frame genetics are a severe limiting factor.


II.) Unnatural methods (surgery):

A.) This is the last case scenario but if it comes down to you tried everything else and nothing has worked enough for you then if you ever want to have children then this might be the best case scenario. I'd reccomend just doing your research as much as possible and find a highly rated place and don't limit yourself to your geographic location. If I chose this method I would fly to anywhere in the world to get this done. Money plays a huge factor and most of the 4's and below will require major surgeries and we're talking 5-12k on average per procedure so if you need 3 procedures you'll need at least 36k to play it safe and maybe up to 50k or so for a high level operation. This would be considered a brand new decent level car so you'll have to sacrafice one of the new 5 new car's that you get in your lifetime to change your life for the better. If you can find people first hand that went to a specific place and they have your desired results then that would be the best case scenario. Can this take you from a 2-10? Probably not but surgeries can and have worked great wonders. It's always going to be case by case scenario but on average if you're a 4 and below and if you get the 1-3 major surgeries by the best professionals in the world and they do an excellent job I would say at least excpect a 2-3 point increase in your looks and at best 4-5 in extreme cases. Your skin, hair and facial hair are other things to keep in mind here as they play a role in facial attractiveness as well.

B.) Hormone Treatment: Hormones can assit you at a young age in increasing your penis size, voice deepening, height and frame growth etc. There may be long term negative effects to these but this is another option.

These treatments and recovery times can range from 1-2 months so if you have 4 procedures you need done I would say expect this entire process to take 8 months or less to get to your desired results.


Cheat Code: Combination method

1.) Combine natural looks maxing with diet, exercise, sleep, mewing, skincare, etc. Once you received you have maxed out your results and if there are still some significant improvements required to get to that Chad tier you want then go for the surgeries from the best places to go in the world. Use this new look to status max by starting a youtube channel to increase your wealth. Geomax if you're a white dude. Now you have looks, money, status and you geo maxed giving you maximum options. Overall time requirement for all of this is at least 7+ years (8 face, height and frame max, 500k youtube subs, new country, 500k per year 3 mil total wealth). So, if you start at 15 years of age you can get to this level at the age of 22 years old.
I forgot to add, when you're just hitting puberty or in puberty to get as much sunlight as you can without burning yourself. This has profound effects on your hormones which can help maximize your bone, muscle and D growth. Unfortunately most media tells us to cake on SPF 100 or just hide from the sun indoors these days. I suggest wearing a hat to cover the face but for the body just use a medium level SPF (7-25) natural organic essential oil and stay out long enough so that you tan but don't burn. I don't know if there are any studies in comparing children's average height growth or muscular development before and after puberty and with a log of their average daily sun exposure but that would be very usefull.
 
TioJohn

TioJohn

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