Contrary to popular perception , Achilies was likely MENA or a light skinned black man

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Were some ancient Greeks black?

“Our best estimate is that the Greeks would be a spectrum of hair colours and skin types in antiquity. I don’t think there’s any reason to doubt they were Mediterranean in skin type (lighter than some and darker than other Europeans), with a fair amount of inter-mixing,” says Whitmarsh.

Not only were the historical Greeks unlikely to be uniformly pale-skinned, but their world was also home to ‘Ethiopians’, a vague term for dark-skinned North Africans. They are mentioned in Aethiopis, the story after Homer’s Iliad (the epic poems retelling the battle of Troy), where Memnon of Ethiopia joins the fighting.

But here’s the thing: the question of whether 'black people' lived in Ancient Greece is itself flawed. The Greek world – one they saw as a circular disk surrounded by a constantly moving stream of ocean – was far more 'fluid' than our own.

Mao 65ad66d


A 1900 reconstruction of the world map by Hecataeus of Miletus (550–475 BC), Getty

“There was a lot of travel in that period – people were moving from Egypt to Greece, east to west. It was a world without borders, without national states. It was all interconnected,” says Whitmarsh.

This flux was ethnic as well as geographic, according to Whitmarsh: “The Greeks didn’t carve up the world into black and white. They didn’t see themselves in those terms. All of our categories – black and white, for instance – are formed by a very modern set of historical circumstance.”

Whitmarsh isn’t alone in this argument, either. Here’s what Dr Rachel Mairs, Associate Professor of Classical and Near Eastern Studies at the University of Reading, said when we put the question to her: “I'm delighted that the BBC have gone for a more diverse cast. Modern racial categories aren't always helpful in looking at the ancient world, but there were certainly people we today might think of as both 'black' and 'white' in the ancient Mediterranean, and many variations of colour and identity in between"

In Troy: Fall of a City, this spectrum of skin colours isn't really portrayed. From Bella Dayne’s Helen of Troy to Jonas Armstrong’s Menelaus, the majority of the cast is pale-skinned.

“We don't definitely know what ancient Greeks would look like, but they sure as hell wouldn’t look like the 'white' actors we normally see either,” says Whitmarsh. “And that’s the real issue here: anyone who says it’s inauthentic to cast Achilles as black has to explain why it’s authentic to use an Australian actor [Louis Hunter, who plays Paris] speaking in English to represent an ancient Greek hero. That seems, to me, another powerful form of appropriation and an equally misleading depiction.”

But doesn't Homer say Achilles is white in the Iliad?


Not exactly. In the Iliad, Homer describes Achilles as having blonde hair – and that’s only a rough translation. The actual term he uses, xanthē, could mean 'golden' or a variety of words – “Greek colour terms are quite strange and don’t map out well on ours,” says Whitmarsh.

Difficult translations aside, Homer’s work don’t give us the full story of Troy. The Iliad only covers a few days in the last weeks of the war and the Odyssey deals with the aftermath of the fighting.

15209329 low res troy fall of a city 57d54bc


David Gyasi as Achilles in Troy: Fall of a City

The definitive source on the battle? Doesn’t exist. If you want to tell the story you have to rely on scraps of poems, oral history or vase paintings – the myth is malleable.

“Homer’s poems are merely one version and the Greeks themselves understood the story could change,” explains Whitmarsh. “There’s never been an authentic retelling of the Iliad and the Odyssey – they’ve always been fluid texts. They’re not designed to be set in stone and it’s not blasphemous to change them.

“All the way through antiquity people updated it, changed the angle and brought in people that weren’t in Homer's original. For instance, the Romans got interested in the story because they thought they were the descendants of the Trojans. And in their version, [spoilers ahead] the Trojans win the war instead of losing.”

Even if you ignore the ever-changing nature of myth and still think it would be inaccurate for Gyasi to play Achilles, then how about this: at one point Homer describes Odysseus – played by Joseph Mawle in Fall of a City and Sean Bean in the 2004 Troy film – as dark-skinned.

In the Odyssey, Odysseus is said to be ‘black-skinned and woolly-haired’ – at one point we’re told that Athena makes him beautiful by restoring his natural black skin colour [see, Odyssey 16.175],” says Whitmarsh.

“Modern readers will think, 'Is he black or not?’ It’s an interesting question, but it’s probably the wrong one. Homer isn’t trying to put Odysseus in a black or white category. It’s not a race thing. He's not saying that Odysseus is in a group of people that are all united by a skin colour.”

Like Achilles' 'blonde' hair, it's difficult for modern readers to understand exactly what Homer meant by Odysseus's 'black' skin. However, it's telling that while some viewers have been quick to argue that a black actor could never play a blonde Achilles, nothing has been said about a white actor playing a 'black-skinned' Odysseus. In the month before Fall of a City was released there were a number of tweets and YouTube comments expressing outrage at Gyasi's casting. Odysseus? Not a single person raised the issue.

Why are the Greeks white in art then?

For a few reasons. Firstly, the 'white' Greek marble statues that fill up our museums were actually originally painted different colours. The paint didn't survive the test of time: the marble did.

The second reason? That’s much more interesting: it’s the same reason that can explain why Jesus tends to be a European in Western people’s minds, and why Cleopatra has been played by Elizabeth Taylor and Achilles by Brad Pitt.

“People tend to like the past to look like a mirror image of themselves,” says Whitmarsh. “Since the 18th and 19th century onwards there has been a 'whitening' of the Greeks and Romans – an appropriation by European powers. For instance, the Germans in the 1800s were adamant that the Greeks were actually Germans who had wandered down the peninsula.”

As for British and American audiences, “The transatlantic slave trade made it so black and white are the categories in which we see people," argues Whitmarsh. "The Greeks had a concept of people being different skin colours, but they wouldn’t put black people on one side and white people on another.”


The slave trade drew a line between slavers and slaves, black and white. And to make sure they were on the 'right' side of this dividing line, Europeans began to see themselves as 'whiter'. This also meant depicting the Greeks – perceived as the ancestors of modern European civilisation – as white too.

Zeus 6b0403f


Zeus, as painted by Mauro Picenardi, 1766-1767

To put it another way, we see the world through certain lenses. And that's not necessarily a bad thing: they help to focus and make sense of everything. But occasionally we need to encounter something that makes us realise there's another way of seeing.

“At least the representation of Achilles and Zeus as 'black' is going to shake up people a bit,” says Whitmarsh. “There’s value disrupting the narrative in this way and making us think again what people would look like.”
 

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Achicles can suck this duck
 

View attachment 1447618

Were some ancient Greeks black?

“Our best estimate is that the Greeks would be a spectrum of hair colours and skin types in antiquity. I don’t think there’s any reason to doubt they were Mediterranean in skin type (lighter than some and darker than other Europeans), with a fair amount of inter-mixing,” says Whitmarsh.

Not only were the historical Greeks unlikely to be uniformly pale-skinned, but their world was also home to ‘Ethiopians’, a vague term for dark-skinned North Africans. They are mentioned in Aethiopis, the story after Homer’s Iliad (the epic poems retelling the battle of Troy), where Memnon of Ethiopia joins the fighting.

But here’s the thing: the question of whether 'black people' lived in Ancient Greece is itself flawed. The Greek world – one they saw as a circular disk surrounded by a constantly moving stream of ocean – was far more 'fluid' than our own.

View attachment 1447612

A 1900 reconstruction of the world map by Hecataeus of Miletus (550–475 BC), Getty

“There was a lot of travel in that period – people were moving from Egypt to Greece, east to west. It was a world without borders, without national states. It was all interconnected,” says Whitmarsh.

This flux was ethnic as well as geographic, according to Whitmarsh: “The Greeks didn’t carve up the world into black and white. They didn’t see themselves in those terms. All of our categories – black and white, for instance – are formed by a very modern set of historical circumstance.”

Whitmarsh isn’t alone in this argument, either. Here’s what Dr Rachel Mairs, Associate Professor of Classical and Near Eastern Studies at the University of Reading, said when we put the question to her: “I'm delighted that the BBC have gone for a more diverse cast. Modern racial categories aren't always helpful in looking at the ancient world, but there were certainly people we today might think of as both 'black' and 'white' in the ancient Mediterranean, and many variations of colour and identity in between"

In Troy: Fall of a City, this spectrum of skin colours isn't really portrayed. From Bella Dayne’s Helen of Troy to Jonas Armstrong’s Menelaus, the majority of the cast is pale-skinned.

“We don't definitely know what ancient Greeks would look like, but they sure as hell wouldn’t look like the 'white' actors we normally see either,” says Whitmarsh. “And that’s the real issue here: anyone who says it’s inauthentic to cast Achilles as black has to explain why it’s authentic to use an Australian actor [Louis Hunter, who plays Paris] speaking in English to represent an ancient Greek hero. That seems, to me, another powerful form of appropriation and an equally misleading depiction.”

But doesn't Homer say Achilles is white in the Iliad?


Not exactly. In the Iliad, Homer describes Achilles as having blonde hair – and that’s only a rough translation. The actual term he uses, xanthē, could mean 'golden' or a variety of words – “Greek colour terms are quite strange and don’t map out well on ours,” says Whitmarsh.

Difficult translations aside, Homer’s work don’t give us the full story of Troy. The Iliad only covers a few days in the last weeks of the war and the Odyssey deals with the aftermath of the fighting.

View attachment 1447614

David Gyasi as Achilles in Troy: Fall of a City

The definitive source on the battle? Doesn’t exist. If you want to tell the story you have to rely on scraps of poems, oral history or vase paintings – the myth is malleable.

“Homer’s poems are merely one version and the Greeks themselves understood the story could change,” explains Whitmarsh. “There’s never been an authentic retelling of the Iliad and the Odyssey – they’ve always been fluid texts. They’re not designed to be set in stone and it’s not blasphemous to change them.

“All the way through antiquity people updated it, changed the angle and brought in people that weren’t in Homer's original. For instance, the Romans got interested in the story because they thought they were the descendants of the Trojans. And in their version, [spoilers ahead] the Trojans win the war instead of losing.”

Even if you ignore the ever-changing nature of myth and still think it would be inaccurate for Gyasi to play Achilles, then how about this: at one point Homer describes Odysseus – played by Joseph Mawle in Fall of a City and Sean Bean in the 2004 Troy film – as dark-skinned.

In the Odyssey, Odysseus is said to be ‘black-skinned and woolly-haired’ – at one point we’re told that Athena makes him beautiful by restoring his natural black skin colour [see, Odyssey 16.175],” says Whitmarsh.

“Modern readers will think, 'Is he black or not?’ It’s an interesting question, but it’s probably the wrong one. Homer isn’t trying to put Odysseus in a black or white category. It’s not a race thing. He's not saying that Odysseus is in a group of people that are all united by a skin colour.”

Like Achilles' 'blonde' hair, it's difficult for modern readers to understand exactly what Homer meant by Odysseus's 'black' skin. However, it's telling that while some viewers have been quick to argue that a black actor could never play a blonde Achilles, nothing has been said about a white actor playing a 'black-skinned' Odysseus. In the month before Fall of a City was released there were a number of tweets and YouTube comments expressing outrage at Gyasi's casting. Odysseus? Not a single person raised the issue.

Why are the Greeks white in art then?

For a few reasons. Firstly, the 'white' Greek marble statues that fill up our museums were actually originally painted different colours. The paint didn't survive the test of time: the marble did.

The second reason? That’s much more interesting: it’s the same reason that can explain why Jesus tends to be a European in Western people’s minds, and why Cleopatra has been played by Elizabeth Taylor and Achilles by Brad Pitt.

“People tend to like the past to look like a mirror image of themselves,” says Whitmarsh. “Since the 18th and 19th century onwards there has been a 'whitening' of the Greeks and Romans – an appropriation by European powers. For instance, the Germans in the 1800s were adamant that the Greeks were actually Germans who had wandered down the peninsula.”

As for British and American audiences, “The transatlantic slave trade made it so black and white are the categories in which we see people," argues Whitmarsh. "The Greeks had a concept of people being different skin colours, but they wouldn’t put black people on one side and white people on another.”


The slave trade drew a line between slavers and slaves, black and white. And to make sure they were on the 'right' side of this dividing line, Europeans began to see themselves as 'whiter'. This also meant depicting the Greeks – perceived as the ancestors of modern European civilisation – as white too.

View attachment 1447616

Zeus, as painted by Mauro Picenardi, 1766-1767

To put it another way, we see the world through certain lenses. And that's not necessarily a bad thing: they help to focus and make sense of everything. But occasionally we need to encounter something that makes us realise there's another way of seeing.

“At least the representation of Achilles and Zeus as 'black' is going to shake up people a bit,” says Whitmarsh. “There’s value disrupting the narrative in this way and making us think again what people would look like.”
you're fucking stupid look at any genetic graph or statue
 
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View attachment 1447618

Were some ancient Greeks black?

“Our best estimate is that the Greeks would be a spectrum of hair colours and skin types in antiquity. I don’t think there’s any reason to doubt they were Mediterranean in skin type (lighter than some and darker than other Europeans), with a fair amount of inter-mixing,” says Whitmarsh.

Not only were the historical Greeks unlikely to be uniformly pale-skinned, but their world was also home to ‘Ethiopians’, a vague term for dark-skinned North Africans. They are mentioned in Aethiopis, the story after Homer’s Iliad (the epic poems retelling the battle of Troy), where Memnon of Ethiopia joins the fighting.

But here’s the thing: the question of whether 'black people' lived in Ancient Greece is itself flawed. The Greek world – one they saw as a circular disk surrounded by a constantly moving stream of ocean – was far more 'fluid' than our own.

View attachment 1447612

A 1900 reconstruction of the world map by Hecataeus of Miletus (550–475 BC), Getty

“There was a lot of travel in that period – people were moving from Egypt to Greece, east to west. It was a world without borders, without national states. It was all interconnected,” says Whitmarsh.

This flux was ethnic as well as geographic, according to Whitmarsh: “The Greeks didn’t carve up the world into black and white. They didn’t see themselves in those terms. All of our categories – black and white, for instance – are formed by a very modern set of historical circumstance.”

Whitmarsh isn’t alone in this argument, either. Here’s what Dr Rachel Mairs, Associate Professor of Classical and Near Eastern Studies at the University of Reading, said when we put the question to her: “I'm delighted that the BBC have gone for a more diverse cast. Modern racial categories aren't always helpful in looking at the ancient world, but there were certainly people we today might think of as both 'black' and 'white' in the ancient Mediterranean, and many variations of colour and identity in between"

In Troy: Fall of a City, this spectrum of skin colours isn't really portrayed. From Bella Dayne’s Helen of Troy to Jonas Armstrong’s Menelaus, the majority of the cast is pale-skinned.

“We don't definitely know what ancient Greeks would look like, but they sure as hell wouldn’t look like the 'white' actors we normally see either,” says Whitmarsh. “And that’s the real issue here: anyone who says it’s inauthentic to cast Achilles as black has to explain why it’s authentic to use an Australian actor [Louis Hunter, who plays Paris] speaking in English to represent an ancient Greek hero. That seems, to me, another powerful form of appropriation and an equally misleading depiction.”

But doesn't Homer say Achilles is white in the Iliad?


Not exactly. In the Iliad, Homer describes Achilles as having blonde hair – and that’s only a rough translation. The actual term he uses, xanthē, could mean 'golden' or a variety of words – “Greek colour terms are quite strange and don’t map out well on ours,” says Whitmarsh.

Difficult translations aside, Homer’s work don’t give us the full story of Troy. The Iliad only covers a few days in the last weeks of the war and the Odyssey deals with the aftermath of the fighting.

View attachment 1447614

David Gyasi as Achilles in Troy: Fall of a City

The definitive source on the battle? Doesn’t exist. If you want to tell the story you have to rely on scraps of poems, oral history or vase paintings – the myth is malleable.

“Homer’s poems are merely one version and the Greeks themselves understood the story could change,” explains Whitmarsh. “There’s never been an authentic retelling of the Iliad and the Odyssey – they’ve always been fluid texts. They’re not designed to be set in stone and it’s not blasphemous to change them.

“All the way through antiquity people updated it, changed the angle and brought in people that weren’t in Homer's original. For instance, the Romans got interested in the story because they thought they were the descendants of the Trojans. And in their version, [spoilers ahead] the Trojans win the war instead of losing.”

Even if you ignore the ever-changing nature of myth and still think it would be inaccurate for Gyasi to play Achilles, then how about this: at one point Homer describes Odysseus – played by Joseph Mawle in Fall of a City and Sean Bean in the 2004 Troy film – as dark-skinned.

In the Odyssey, Odysseus is said to be ‘black-skinned and woolly-haired’ – at one point we’re told that Athena makes him beautiful by restoring his natural black skin colour [see, Odyssey 16.175],” says Whitmarsh.

“Modern readers will think, 'Is he black or not?’ It’s an interesting question, but it’s probably the wrong one. Homer isn’t trying to put Odysseus in a black or white category. It’s not a race thing. He's not saying that Odysseus is in a group of people that are all united by a skin colour.”

Like Achilles' 'blonde' hair, it's difficult for modern readers to understand exactly what Homer meant by Odysseus's 'black' skin. However, it's telling that while some viewers have been quick to argue that a black actor could never play a blonde Achilles, nothing has been said about a white actor playing a 'black-skinned' Odysseus. In the month before Fall of a City was released there were a number of tweets and YouTube comments expressing outrage at Gyasi's casting. Odysseus? Not a single person raised the issue.

Why are the Greeks white in art then?

For a few reasons. Firstly, the 'white' Greek marble statues that fill up our museums were actually originally painted different colours. The paint didn't survive the test of time: the marble did.

The second reason? That’s much more interesting: it’s the same reason that can explain why Jesus tends to be a European in Western people’s minds, and why Cleopatra has been played by Elizabeth Taylor and Achilles by Brad Pitt.

“People tend to like the past to look like a mirror image of themselves,” says Whitmarsh. “Since the 18th and 19th century onwards there has been a 'whitening' of the Greeks and Romans – an appropriation by European powers. For instance, the Germans in the 1800s were adamant that the Greeks were actually Germans who had wandered down the peninsula.”

As for British and American audiences, “The transatlantic slave trade made it so black and white are the categories in which we see people," argues Whitmarsh. "The Greeks had a concept of people being different skin colours, but they wouldn’t put black people on one side and white people on another.”


The slave trade drew a line between slavers and slaves, black and white. And to make sure they were on the 'right' side of this dividing line, Europeans began to see themselves as 'whiter'. This also meant depicting the Greeks – perceived as the ancestors of modern European civilisation – as white too.

View attachment 1447616

Zeus, as painted by Mauro Picenardi, 1766-1767

To put it another way, we see the world through certain lenses. And that's not necessarily a bad thing: they help to focus and make sense of everything. But occasionally we need to encounter something that makes us realise there's another way of seeing.

“At least the representation of Achilles and Zeus as 'black' is going to shake up people a bit,” says Whitmarsh. “There’s value disrupting the narrative in this way and making us think again what people would look like.”
hes not blck
 
At the rate historical figures, civilizations, inventions, etc. are suddenly being accredited to black people, it's a surprise they were even conquered.
 
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At the rate historical figures, civilizations, inventions, etc. are suddenly being accredited to black people, it's a surprise they were even conquered.
African people were kind for letting white people conquer their lands. African people are spiritual, unconcerned with worldly achievements in this age
 
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Mohammad was a white man as were most important Arab and MENA individuals.
 
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Mohammad was a white man as were most important Arab and MENA individuals.

I know this is a bait but for the last time

White in the hadith refers to a very light brown color and yellow refers to white ( Roman people at that time )

If you are not trolling, you will see I am right
 
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I know this is a bait but for the last time

White in the hadith refers to a very light brown color and yellow refers to white ( Roman people at that time )

If you are not trolling, you will see I am right
Idc what you think the hadith refers to. He was a white man, as white as Julius Caesar or Nero. It's not bait. All important figures in Arab history were white.
 
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Idc what you think the hadith refers to. He was a white man, as white as Julius Caesar or Nero. It's not bait. All important figures in Arab history were white.
Julius Cesar wasn't white, I wont engage with you. You are trolling
 
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Julius Cesar wasn't white, I wont engage with you. You are trolling
Caesar would spit on an ethnic like you. He was a white caucasoid. Mohammad would strike you down where you stand for seeking to steal the glories of other races, as envy is a sin. He would cast you into Jahannem himself.
 
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literally what
 
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Caesar would spit on an ethnic like you. He was a white caucasoid. Mohammad would strike you down where you stand for seeking to steal the glories of other races, as envy is a sin. He would cast you into Jahannem himself.
You think blue eyes and blonde hair existed in Arabia lmfao?
1639910643735

1639910710597
 
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great thread, op

you knocked it out of the park
 
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Low IQ thread.
The mycenaeans were already there, and they were european. Modern greeks are still pretty similar to mycenaeans, genetically.

The extra admixture is mostly slavs.
 
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We Illyrians and greeks are white :feelsgood:
 
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View attachment 1447618

Were some ancient Greeks black?

“Our best estimate is that the Greeks would be a spectrum of hair colours and skin types in antiquity. I don’t think there’s any reason to doubt they were Mediterranean in skin type (lighter than some and darker than other Europeans), with a fair amount of inter-mixing,” says Whitmarsh.

Not only were the historical Greeks unlikely to be uniformly pale-skinned, but their world was also home to ‘Ethiopians’, a vague term for dark-skinned North Africans. They are mentioned in Aethiopis, the story after Homer’s Iliad (the epic poems retelling the battle of Troy), where Memnon of Ethiopia joins the fighting.

But here’s the thing: the question of whether 'black people' lived in Ancient Greece is itself flawed. The Greek world – one they saw as a circular disk surrounded by a constantly moving stream of ocean – was far more 'fluid' than our own.

View attachment 1447612

A 1900 reconstruction of the world map by Hecataeus of Miletus (550–475 BC), Getty

“There was a lot of travel in that period – people were moving from Egypt to Greece, east to west. It was a world without borders, without national states. It was all interconnected,” says Whitmarsh.

This flux was ethnic as well as geographic, according to Whitmarsh: “The Greeks didn’t carve up the world into black and white. They didn’t see themselves in those terms. All of our categories – black and white, for instance – are formed by a very modern set of historical circumstance.”

Whitmarsh isn’t alone in this argument, either. Here’s what Dr Rachel Mairs, Associate Professor of Classical and Near Eastern Studies at the University of Reading, said when we put the question to her: “I'm delighted that the BBC have gone for a more diverse cast. Modern racial categories aren't always helpful in looking at the ancient world, but there were certainly people we today might think of as both 'black' and 'white' in the ancient Mediterranean, and many variations of colour and identity in between"

In Troy: Fall of a City, this spectrum of skin colours isn't really portrayed. From Bella Dayne’s Helen of Troy to Jonas Armstrong’s Menelaus, the majority of the cast is pale-skinned.

“We don't definitely know what ancient Greeks would look like, but they sure as hell wouldn’t look like the 'white' actors we normally see either,” says Whitmarsh. “And that’s the real issue here: anyone who says it’s inauthentic to cast Achilles as black has to explain why it’s authentic to use an Australian actor [Louis Hunter, who plays Paris] speaking in English to represent an ancient Greek hero. That seems, to me, another powerful form of appropriation and an equally misleading depiction.”

But doesn't Homer say Achilles is white in the Iliad?


Not exactly. In the Iliad, Homer describes Achilles as having blonde hair – and that’s only a rough translation. The actual term he uses, xanthē, could mean 'golden' or a variety of words – “Greek colour terms are quite strange and don’t map out well on ours,” says Whitmarsh.

Difficult translations aside, Homer’s work don’t give us the full story of Troy. The Iliad only covers a few days in the last weeks of the war and the Odyssey deals with the aftermath of the fighting.

View attachment 1447614

David Gyasi as Achilles in Troy: Fall of a City

The definitive source on the battle? Doesn’t exist. If you want to tell the story you have to rely on scraps of poems, oral history or vase paintings – the myth is malleable.

“Homer’s poems are merely one version and the Greeks themselves understood the story could change,” explains Whitmarsh. “There’s never been an authentic retelling of the Iliad and the Odyssey – they’ve always been fluid texts. They’re not designed to be set in stone and it’s not blasphemous to change them.

“All the way through antiquity people updated it, changed the angle and brought in people that weren’t in Homer's original. For instance, the Romans got interested in the story because they thought they were the descendants of the Trojans. And in their version, [spoilers ahead] the Trojans win the war instead of losing.”

Even if you ignore the ever-changing nature of myth and still think it would be inaccurate for Gyasi to play Achilles, then how about this: at one point Homer describes Odysseus – played by Joseph Mawle in Fall of a City and Sean Bean in the 2004 Troy film – as dark-skinned.

In the Odyssey, Odysseus is said to be ‘black-skinned and woolly-haired’ – at one point we’re told that Athena makes him beautiful by restoring his natural black skin colour [see, Odyssey 16.175],” says Whitmarsh.

“Modern readers will think, 'Is he black or not?’ It’s an interesting question, but it’s probably the wrong one. Homer isn’t trying to put Odysseus in a black or white category. It’s not a race thing. He's not saying that Odysseus is in a group of people that are all united by a skin colour.”

Like Achilles' 'blonde' hair, it's difficult for modern readers to understand exactly what Homer meant by Odysseus's 'black' skin. However, it's telling that while some viewers have been quick to argue that a black actor could never play a blonde Achilles, nothing has been said about a white actor playing a 'black-skinned' Odysseus. In the month before Fall of a City was released there were a number of tweets and YouTube comments expressing outrage at Gyasi's casting. Odysseus? Not a single person raised the issue.

Why are the Greeks white in art then?

For a few reasons. Firstly, the 'white' Greek marble statues that fill up our museums were actually originally painted different colours. The paint didn't survive the test of time: the marble did.

The second reason? That’s much more interesting: it’s the same reason that can explain why Jesus tends to be a European in Western people’s minds, and why Cleopatra has been played by Elizabeth Taylor and Achilles by Brad Pitt.

“People tend to like the past to look like a mirror image of themselves,” says Whitmarsh. “Since the 18th and 19th century onwards there has been a 'whitening' of the Greeks and Romans – an appropriation by European powers. For instance, the Germans in the 1800s were adamant that the Greeks were actually Germans who had wandered down the peninsula.”

As for British and American audiences, “The transatlantic slave trade made it so black and white are the categories in which we see people," argues Whitmarsh. "The Greeks had a concept of people being different skin colours, but they wouldn’t put black people on one side and white people on another.”


The slave trade drew a line between slavers and slaves, black and white. And to make sure they were on the 'right' side of this dividing line, Europeans began to see themselves as 'whiter'. This also meant depicting the Greeks – perceived as the ancestors of modern European civilisation – as white too.

View attachment 1447616

Zeus, as painted by Mauro Picenardi, 1766-1767

To put it another way, we see the world through certain lenses. And that's not necessarily a bad thing: they help to focus and make sense of everything. But occasionally we need to encounter something that makes us realise there's another way of seeing.

“At least the representation of Achilles and Zeus as 'black' is going to shake up people a bit,” says Whitmarsh. “There’s value disrupting the narrative in this way and making us think again what people would look like.”
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Not exactly. In the Iliad, Homer describes Achilles as having blonde hair – and that’s only a rough translation. The actual term he uses, xanthē, could mean 'golden' or a variety of words – “Greek colour terms are quite strange and don’t map out well on ours,” says Whitmarsh.
Tldr: he was blonde, but kikefaggot academics will reach and twist their brains into convincing themselves that it has another hidden meaning lmao. Mental gymnastics at it'a finest. Meanwhile ancient descriptions of meds
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Med art clearly shows whites
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Even berbers appear to be a lot whiter in art.
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Also oddyseus wasn't black, he was tanned according to new translations.

"Was Odysseus in fact black? Or was he (as Emily Wilson’s acclaimed new translation renders it) ‘tanned’?"
 
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African people were kind for letting white people conquer their lands. African people are spiritual, unconcerned with worldly achievements in this age
Those cunts were too busy selling eachother off in stupid tribe wars for some guns gunpowder and beer to stop and think to themsleves “why do these pink people want people so much maybe we shouldn’t sell people to these guys and only sell niggers to eachother”

basically niggers lack deep thought
 
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I know this is a bait but for the last time

White in the hadith refers to a very light brown color and yellow refers to white ( Roman people at that time )

If you are not trolling, you will see I am right
Yellow does refer to Greeks actually but at the time the “Gayreeks” called themsleves “Romans” or “Rhomanoi” In greek

White refered to light brown Ayrabs so yes Mohammed was brown ethnic man snd would be considered a dark skinned moor to your avg Nerdik subhuman
 
White refered to light brown Ayrabs so yes Mohammed was brown ethnic man snd would be considered a dark skinned moor to your avg Nerdik subhuman
He was first and foremost a cuckold so who cares.
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While medchads were white
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He was first and foremost a cuckold so who cares.
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While medchads were white
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This may not even be cucked as it is genetically possible for this to occur… considering Arabs are like 30% black especially in gulf nations then it’s not a stretch to say Jasmine could have a baby that looked a bit more black than your avg Arab without her cheating.

Arabs are not white when they mix with black the baby is more Arab in looks than black so the distinction isn’t the same as with say mullatos which alwyas look more black than white
 
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@TeraCope54

If it were not the computer screen you are hiding behind, I would shoot you on the spot without a single thought, without even blinking my eyes. Headshot. I would empty every single bullet in my magazine on your dead body.

And as your lying on the ground, I would take my dick out and piss on your face of a toilet
 
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Those cunts were too busy selling eachother off in stupid tribe wars for some guns gunpowder and beer to stop and think to themsleves “why do these pink people want people so much maybe we shouldn’t sell people to these guys and only sell niggers to eachother”

basically niggers lack deep thought
To be fair not every African empire traded slaves. Quite a few of them abolished the slave trade within their own kingdoms due to massive suspicion of European interests. Some of them built their entire empires on the slave trade like the Dahomey
 
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quite a few black Africans in Greece they were very well known there
Memnon, the king of Aethiopia, fought to defend Troy in the Trojan war. Ancient Greeks had regular commercial contact with ancient Egyptians, and that must have brought a sizeable trading community into the Hellenic world from Greece. As many of the Egyptians were of African descent or of mixed race, it is easy imagine that many of them were black. Libyan, Carthaginian and Ethiopian traders were not uncommon either, and many of them, if not all, were black.

I have no idea of the black slaves in the Hellenic world, but judging by the abundant depiction black people in ancient Greek art, they probably were a significant minority. Also, when Alexander conquered Egypt and Anatolia, it must have opened some door to receive more black people into the Greek peninsula.

Here’s some ancient Greek depiction of black people:

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GLL0M9y 3
not blck
 
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Troy - fall fo the city got ubershit trash reviews

But i think it wasnt tat bad, it was quite good
 
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achilles is a fictional character
 
He is a retarded coping sfcel, they're known to be low iq pussies irl
Keep seething over white men defending what is ours while you shout your blatant envy from the rooftops. Stealing glory is pathetic and truly shows the envy of you shitnics.
 
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entertaining thread please do fight more over who's white or not:feelskek:
 
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Keep seething over white men defending what is ours while you shout your blatant envy from the rooftops. Stealing glory is pathetic and truly shows the envy of you shitnics.
Another retarded sfcel comes along. What are you defending, you are posting on a forum
 
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Another retarded sfcel comes along. What are you defending, you are posting on a forum
I'd rather be literally retarded than a truecel virgin coping ethnic supremacist like yourself.
 
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Pretty sure he wasn't black, he would have been very tanned with orange undertones, similar colour to people like Roshan or Tiger Shroff or Fawad Khan, basically curries who can larp as med.
 
achilles was a kang n shieet
 
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we wuz greeks and shiet!!
 

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