DHT increases collagen production?

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"Additional analyses provide evidence that androgens directly stimulate dermal fibroblast collagen production"


"Treatment with physiological doses of dihydrotestosterone (25 mg topically) and estrogen (5 microg/0.1 ml subcutaneously) restored the antioxidant levels significantly (p < 0.05) and reduced the levels of TNF-alpha and MMP-2, with estrogen exhibiting a higher potency. This, in turn, attenuated the damage to reticulin organization as well as the loss of collagen and GAG in the articular tissues. However, elastin loss could not be attenuated by either treatment"
 
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Androgens rape your subcutaneous fat pads tho, so even if true, this study is double-edged sword
 
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Androgens rape your subcutaneous fat pads tho, so even if true, this study is double-edged sword
Unless they do so selectively, I don't see the issue. Just get off and get fatter if they get raped, fixed
 
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thats not how it works
Studies

Anyway, I'm not suggesting people blast androgenic steroids. I'm suggesting that it's possible treating natural DHT as the enemy is a bad idea
 
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I think androgens dont really ruin your collagen that much i think its the nuked estrogen that causes this
 
Agreed

Nuked estro is a death sentence all around, estrogen is good, you just want favorable androgen to estrogen ratio
 
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"Loss of firmness in the skin is another evidence of aging. All three types of skin aging—biological, environmental, and mechanical—contribute to the skin's loss of firmness. Biologically, our body naturally produces more of the hormone DHT as we age. As DHT levels increase, elastin production is inhibited. Elastin is another skin structural protein found in the dermis. This coil-like protein has the ability to snap back into place after stretching, giving the skin its elastic quality. As we age, elastin fibers lose much of their resilience and elastin production within the fibroblasts decreases. This overall decline in healthy elastin levels results in areas of decreased firmness, especially along the jaw line, neck, and around the eyes. Environmentally, UV rays can penetrate the skin to damage elastin-producing fibroblast cells. Also, as skin cell renewal decreases, wounds heal more slowly and the skin thins, becoming more susceptible to environmental damage. This can lead to damaged fibroblasts and decreased elastin levels. Finally, mechanical stress, due to repeated wrinkle causing behaviors, can permanently stretch out elastin fibers."

(source: https://www.nuskin.com/en_US/corpor...l_care_science/skin_aging_and_physiology.html )
 
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"Loss of firmness in the skin is another evidence of aging. All three types of skin aging—biological, environmental, and mechanical—contribute to the skin's loss of firmness. Biologically, our body naturally produces more of the hormone DHT as we age. As DHT levels increase, elastin production is inhibited. Elastin is another skin structural protein found in the dermis. This coil-like protein has the ability to snap back into place after stretching, giving the skin its elastic quality. As we age, elastin fibers lose much of their resilience and elastin production within the fibroblasts decreases. This overall decline in healthy elastin levels results in areas of decreased firmness, especially along the jaw line, neck, and around the eyes. Environmentally, UV rays can penetrate the skin to damage elastin-producing fibroblast cells. Also, as skin cell renewal decreases, wounds heal more slowly and the skin thins, becoming more susceptible to environmental damage. This can lead to damaged fibroblasts and decreased elastin levels. Finally, mechanical stress, due to repeated wrinkle causing behaviors, can permanently stretch out elastin fibers."

(source: https://www.nuskin.com/en_US/corpor...l_care_science/skin_aging_and_physiology.html )
Yeah, I read that too. Chose not to include it because it's not a study, it's a blog post on a skincare company's website. It just asserts that DHT lowers elastin "because dht goes up as we age, elastin goes down" (lol?) But it doesn't cite this, it's not a study, it doesn't even hint at a mechanism through which this occurs. And I Googled it out of curiosity, saw zero studies on the internet about DHT and Elastin. If I missed something let me know, but sounds like he's talking out of his ass
 
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Someone in their 50s has a higher DHT level than in their 20s? I thought since testosterone decreases so would DHT.
 
Someone in their 50s has a higher DHT level than in their 20s? I thought since testosterone decreases so would DHT.
Again, take with grain of salt. He's just typing shit no differently than how people here do, so who knows if that's even substantiated
 
Actually here's a study showing dht declines with age


So disregard everything that guy says lmao it's made up
 
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No, if the fat pads in your face lose volume and descend you will look like shit and there is no way to get them back.
But that shouldnt matter when you wanna have a lean face?

Isnt that what leanmaxxing is all about? Killing face fat?
 
But that shouldnt matter when you wanna have a lean face?

Isnt that what leanmaxxing is all about? Killing face fat?
No, intact fat pads wont make you look fat, its not the same as being bloated.
f7c9ddeb26091b7a80ed07d1ce3f3f7c.jpg

Jared leto in this pic is lean af but has 100% intact fat pads, so his skin look youthful and plump
 
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No, intact fat pads wont make you look fat, its not the same as being bloated.
f7c9ddeb26091b7a80ed07d1ce3f3f7c.jpg

Jared leto in this pic is lean af but has 100% intact fat pads, so his skin look youthful and plump
Can you link study on androgens depleting facial fat pads
 
Yeah, I read that too. Chose not to include it because it's not a study, it's a blog post on a skincare company's website. It just asserts that DHT lowers elastin "because dht goes up as we age, elastin goes down" (lol?) But it doesn't cite this, it's not a study, it doesn't even hint at a mechanism through which this occurs. And I Googled it out of curiosity, saw zero studies on the internet about DHT and Elastin. If I missed something let me know, but sounds like he's talking out of his ass
thx. Only other thing I found was this. But yea, I'm not convinced DHT helps with anti-aging either, I'd need to look into it more.

 
Actually here's a study showing dht declines with age


So disregard everything that guy says lmao it's made up
JFL if you need a study to understand that DHT depletes with age. Its a metabolite of testosterone, which is known to decrease in older man. Low DHT doesnt matter cause your AR receptors become more sensitive as you age, which is ultimately what fucks you up.
 
JFL if you need a study to understand that DHT depletes with age. Its a metabolite of testosterone, which is known to decrease in older man. Low DHT doesnt matter cause your AR receptors become more sensitive as you age, which is ultimately what fucks you up.
You're such a midwit lmao. Of course that's true, but 5a reductase levels could easily change independently for a variety of reasons
 
this forum doesnt really treat DHT as an enemy, in fact many people here think 5AR inhibitors are tranny poison drugs

there is evidence androgens and especially estrogen are important for collagen and elastin synthesis and regulation, but I would say its testosterone that matters, not DHT. despite DHT being more androgenic, its signaled in an intracrine and paracrine manner and isnt a significant circulating androgen. its only exceptionally high in select tissues with high 5AR expression like hair follicles and the prostate and sebum glands

testosterone on the other hand is just a much more important and ubiquitous circulating androgen, active almost everywhere, it deepens voice, gives you muscles, makes your dick work, gives you zeal and motivation etc. and dont forget WHY we hate DHT, its due to raping hair which is very well established


good thread overall. i think super low estrogen is why menopausal women start aging like utter shit compared to older men. even birth control pills dont have nearly enough estrogen to compensate for the downregulated production older women face. and estrogen, more so than testosterone has a HUGE impact on collagen (along with a fuck ton of other things). estrogen is underrated as fuck


TRT + finasteride is ideal. high T + good hair. the key is to not nuke DHT if you have low T
 
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"Additional analyses provide evidence that androgens directly stimulate dermal fibroblast collagen production"


"Treatment with physiological doses of dihydrotestosterone (25 mg topically) and estrogen (5 microg/0.1 ml subcutaneously) restored the antioxidant levels significantly (p < 0.05) and reduced the levels of TNF-alpha and MMP-2, with estrogen exhibiting a higher potency. This, in turn, attenuated the damage to reticulin organization as well as the loss of collagen and GAG in the articular tissues. However, elastin loss could not be attenuated by either treatment"
the estrogen is doing the work...
 

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