DHT increases collagen production?

[Deleted member 15698]

Androgens influence expression of matrix proteins and proteolytic factors during cutaneous wound healing - Laboratory Investigation

Excessive proteolytic activity is a feature of chronic wounds such as venous ulcers, in which resolution of the inflammatory response fails and restorative matrix accumulation is delayed as a consequence. The inflammatory actions of native androgens during the healing of acute skin wounds have...

www.nature.com

"Additional analyses provide evidence that androgens directly stimulate dermal fibroblast collagen production"

Estrogen and testosterone attenuate extracellular matrix loss in collagen-induced arthritis in rats - PubMed

Rheumatoid arthritis (RA) is a sexually dimorphic, autoimmune inflammatory disorder affecting the joints. Joint disability in RA results primarily from loss of matrix components (collagen and glycosoaminoglycan) in the cartilage and synovium. This study was carried out to understand the effect...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

"Treatment with physiological doses of dihydrotestosterone (25 mg topically) and estrogen (5 microg/0.1 ml subcutaneously) restored the antioxidant levels significantly (p < 0.05) and reduced the levels of TNF-alpha and MMP-2, with estrogen exhibiting a higher potency. This, in turn, attenuated the damage to reticulin organization as well as the loss of collagen and GAG in the articular tissues. However, elastin loss could not be attenuated by either treatment"

 

[Deleted member 13367]

Androgens rape your subcutaneous fat pads tho, so even if true, this study is double-edged sword

 

[Deleted member 15698]

Androgens rape your subcutaneous fat pads tho, so even if true, this study is double-edged sword

Unless they do so selectively, I don't see the issue. Just get off and get fatter if they get raped, fixed

 

[Deleted member 13367]

Unless they do so selectively, I don't see the issue. Just get off and get fatter if they get raped, fixed

thats not how it works

 

[Deleted member 15698]

thats not how it works

Studies

Anyway, I'm not suggesting people blast androgenic steroids. I'm suggesting that it's possible treating natural DHT as the enemy is a bad idea

 

[BearBoy]

I think androgens dont really ruin your collagen that much i think its the nuked estrogen that causes this

 

[Deleted member 15698]

Agreed

Nuked estro is a death sentence all around, estrogen is good, you just want favorable androgen to estrogen ratio

 

[ScramFranklin]

"Loss of firmness in the skin is another evidence of aging. All three types of skin aging—biological, environmental, and mechanical—contribute to the skin's loss of firmness. Biologically, our body naturally produces more of the hormone DHT as we age. As DHT levels increase, elastin production is inhibited. Elastin is another skin structural protein found in the dermis. This coil-like protein has the ability to snap back into place after stretching, giving the skin its elastic quality. As we age, elastin fibers lose much of their resilience and elastin production within the fibroblasts decreases. This overall decline in healthy elastin levels results in areas of decreased firmness, especially along the jaw line, neck, and around the eyes. Environmentally, UV rays can penetrate the skin to damage elastin-producing fibroblast cells. Also, as skin cell renewal decreases, wounds heal more slowly and the skin thins, becoming more susceptible to environmental damage. This can lead to damaged fibroblasts and decreased elastin levels. Finally, mechanical stress, due to repeated wrinkle causing behaviors, can permanently stretch out elastin fibers."

(source: https://www.nuskin.com/en_US/corpor...l_care_science/skin_aging_and_physiology.html )

 

[Bitchwhipper2]

Androgens rape your subcutaneous fat pads tho, so even if true, this study is double-edged sword

Isnt that ideal tho?

 

[Deleted member 15698]

"Loss of firmness in the skin is another evidence of aging. All three types of skin aging—biological, environmental, and mechanical—contribute to the skin's loss of firmness. Biologically, our body naturally produces more of the hormone DHT as we age. As DHT levels increase, elastin production is inhibited. Elastin is another skin structural protein found in the dermis. This coil-like protein has the ability to snap back into place after stretching, giving the skin its elastic quality. As we age, elastin fibers lose much of their resilience and elastin production within the fibroblasts decreases. This overall decline in healthy elastin levels results in areas of decreased firmness, especially along the jaw line, neck, and around the eyes. Environmentally, UV rays can penetrate the skin to damage elastin-producing fibroblast cells. Also, as skin cell renewal decreases, wounds heal more slowly and the skin thins, becoming more susceptible to environmental damage. This can lead to damaged fibroblasts and decreased elastin levels. Finally, mechanical stress, due to repeated wrinkle causing behaviors, can permanently stretch out elastin fibers."

(source: https://www.nuskin.com/en_US/corpor...l_care_science/skin_aging_and_physiology.html )

Yeah, I read that too. Chose not to include it because it's not a study, it's a blog post on a skincare company's website. It just asserts that DHT lowers elastin "because dht goes up as we age, elastin goes down" (lol?) But it doesn't cite this, it's not a study, it doesn't even hint at a mechanism through which this occurs. And I Googled it out of curiosity, saw zero studies on the internet about DHT and Elastin. If I missed something let me know, but sounds like he's talking out of his ass

 

[Lawton88]

Someone in their 50s has a higher DHT level than in their 20s? I thought since testosterone decreases so would DHT.

 

[Deleted member 15698]

Someone in their 50s has a higher DHT level than in their 20s? I thought since testosterone decreases so would DHT.

Again, take with grain of salt. He's just typing shit no differently than how people here do, so who knows if that's even substantiated

 

[Deleted member 13367]

Isnt that ideal tho?

No, if the fat pads in your face lose volume and descend you will look like shit and there is no way to get them back.

 

[Deleted member 15698]

Actually here's a study showing dht declines with age

Age-dependent change of serum 5alpha-dihydrotestosterone and its relation to testosterone in man - PubMed

Serum 5 alpha-dihydrotestosterone (DHT) and testosterone (T) were measured in 78 normal men aged between 12 and 89 years, separating DHT and T by celite micro-column and using reliable radioimmunoassay. In four age groups of young (20-39 years), middle aged (40-59 years) and old (60-79 years and...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

So disregard everything that guy says lmao it's made up

 

[Bitchwhipper2]

No, if the fat pads in your face lose volume and descend you will look like shit and there is no way to get them back.

But that shouldnt matter when you wanna have a lean face?

Isnt that what leanmaxxing is all about? Killing face fat?

 

[Deleted member 13367]

But that shouldnt matter when you wanna have a lean face?

Isnt that what leanmaxxing is all about? Killing face fat?

No, intact fat pads wont make you look fat, its not the same as being bloated.

Jared leto in this pic is lean af but has 100% intact fat pads, so his skin look youthful and plump

 

[Deleted member 15698]

No, intact fat pads wont make you look fat, its not the same as being bloated.

Jared leto in this pic is lean af but has 100% intact fat pads, so his skin look youthful and plump

Can you link study on androgens depleting facial fat pads

 

[ScramFranklin]

Yeah, I read that too. Chose not to include it because it's not a study, it's a blog post on a skincare company's website. It just asserts that DHT lowers elastin "because dht goes up as we age, elastin goes down" (lol?) But it doesn't cite this, it's not a study, it doesn't even hint at a mechanism through which this occurs. And I Googled it out of curiosity, saw zero studies on the internet about DHT and Elastin. If I missed something let me know, but sounds like he's talking out of his ass

thx. Only other thing I found was this. But yea, I'm not convinced DHT helps with anti-aging either, I'd need to look into it more.

Treatment of Aging Skin with Topical Ethocyn® : Plastic and Reconstructive Surgery

An abstract is unavailable.

journals.lww.com

 

[Deleted member 13367]

Actually here's a study showing dht declines with age

Age-dependent change of serum 5alpha-dihydrotestosterone and its relation to testosterone in man - PubMed

Serum 5 alpha-dihydrotestosterone (DHT) and testosterone (T) were measured in 78 normal men aged between 12 and 89 years, separating DHT and T by celite micro-column and using reliable radioimmunoassay. In four age groups of young (20-39 years), middle aged (40-59 years) and old (60-79 years and...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

So disregard everything that guy says lmao it's made up

JFL if you need a study to understand that DHT depletes with age. Its a metabolite of testosterone, which is known to decrease in older man. Low DHT doesnt matter cause your AR receptors become more sensitive as you age, which is ultimately what fucks you up.

 

[Deleted member 15698]

JFL if you need a study to understand that DHT depletes with age. Its a metabolite of testosterone, which is known to decrease in older man. Low DHT doesnt matter cause your AR receptors become more sensitive as you age, which is ultimately what fucks you up.

You're such a midwit lmao. Of course that's true, but 5a reductase levels could easily change independently for a variety of reasons

 

[Prettyboy]

Androgens rape your subcutaneous fat pads tho, so even if true, this study is double-edged sword

Is that whats on your scalp too?

 

[Deleted member 14139]

this forum doesnt really treat DHT as an enemy, in fact many people here think 5AR inhibitors are tranny poison drugs

there is evidence androgens and especially estrogen are important for collagen and elastin synthesis and regulation, but I would say its testosterone that matters, not DHT. despite DHT being more androgenic, its signaled in an intracrine and paracrine manner and isnt a significant circulating androgen. its only exceptionally high in select tissues with high 5AR expression like hair follicles and the prostate and sebum glands

testosterone on the other hand is just a much more important and ubiquitous circulating androgen, active almost everywhere, it deepens voice, gives you muscles, makes your dick work, gives you zeal and motivation etc. and dont forget WHY we hate DHT, its due to raping hair which is very well established


good thread overall. i think super low estrogen is why menopausal women start aging like utter shit compared to older men. even birth control pills dont have nearly enough estrogen to compensate for the downregulated production older women face. and estrogen, more so than testosterone has a HUGE impact on collagen (along with a fuck ton of other things). estrogen is underrated as fuck


TRT + finasteride is ideal. high T + good hair. the key is to not nuke DHT if you have low T

 

[TeenAscender]

Androgens influence expression of matrix proteins and proteolytic factors during cutaneous wound healing - Laboratory Investigation

Excessive proteolytic activity is a feature of chronic wounds such as venous ulcers, in which resolution of the inflammatory response fails and restorative matrix accumulation is delayed as a consequence. The inflammatory actions of native androgens during the healing of acute skin wounds have...

www.nature.com

"Additional analyses provide evidence that androgens directly stimulate dermal fibroblast collagen production"

Estrogen and testosterone attenuate extracellular matrix loss in collagen-induced arthritis in rats - PubMed

Rheumatoid arthritis (RA) is a sexually dimorphic, autoimmune inflammatory disorder affecting the joints. Joint disability in RA results primarily from loss of matrix components (collagen and glycosoaminoglycan) in the cartilage and synovium. This study was carried out to understand the effect...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

"Treatment with physiological doses of dihydrotestosterone (25 mg topically) and estrogen (5 microg/0.1 ml subcutaneously) restored the antioxidant levels significantly (p < 0.05) and reduced the levels of TNF-alpha and MMP-2, with estrogen exhibiting a higher potency. This, in turn, attenuated the damage to reticulin organization as well as the loss of collagen and GAG in the articular tissues. However, elastin loss could not be attenuated by either treatment"

the estrogen is doing the work...

 

[Deleted member 15698]

the estrogen is doing the work...

Guy, you didn't even read it